Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zingoleb]

I was going to post this in confessions, since things were just being discussed there, but I'll go here instead.

I've had an idea for a body mod I've want done, actually, and the guy who does it has a hilariously terrible website. I've never heard of him until very recently, though - does anyone have any info on this guy w/r/t/ reliability, safety, skill, etc.?

[ackblom12]

Samppa is a wonderful body mod artist with absolutely terrible taste in web design. The dude's been around for a long while, but last I heard he was still based in Finland. Has he moved to the US or taking a overseas tour?

[Zingoleb]

I have no idea. I just came across his name several times so I thought he'd be a good person to look into.

[nekowafer]

I've heard good things about him as well. Mostly through Shannon Larratt but I generally trust his judgement on these things.

[ackblom12]

Ok, so he's based out of London now days, but yeah, he's a wonderful artist from everything that I've seen and heard.

Lukas Zpira is another name I know of that does a lot of much rarer mods, but he's gone pretty low on the radar as of a few years ago. The dude is a scarification and general body mod genius.

[ackblom12]

Also, thinking about it more...

Howie of Lunacobra - Dude does some great work and is based in Toronto, but he's a bit of a mixed bag as far as community opinion goes. He's chastised a lot for doing experimental work on clients, though it's always involved informed consent as far as I know. the concerns in the community generally have to do with the safety of procedures, though I've never heard of any serious problems outside of some big clashes due to the personality of those involved. This is an example of a healed navel removal he has done.

Brian Decker - Always someone I will suggest for any procedure whatsoever. He's based out of NYC and the man is amazing at what he does, the ethics surounding it, the safety, the sanitation and even if he doesn't do a procedure himself, which seems to be fairly rare, he should be able to point you in the right direction.

Steve Haworth - Based out of Phoenix, AZ, the guy is basically the father of the modern "surgical" modification community. He's made a ton of advancements in the methods and jewelry design of procedures and is well known for being very good at what he does. From what I gather there are quite a few personalit clashes with him, but I've never heard complaints about the ethics of his practice.

There aren't a whole lot of artist that will do some procedures and even the ones that do will quite possibly tell you no due to anatomy or other concerns. Just be prepared to be told it's not a possibility due to a variety of reasons.

[Barmymoo]

What's that I hear? Was it the sound of another reason for Zing to move to England?

[Zingoleb]

Brian Decker - Always someone I will suggest for any procedure whatsoever. He's based out of NYC and the man is amazing at what he does, the ethics surounding it, the safety, the sanitation and even if he doesn't do a procedure himself, which seems to be fairly rare, he should be able to point you in the right direction.

He's also just a really cool dude in general. I've spoken with him on more than one occasion - last was actually about the difference in audio input with pointed ears, which is apparently something that he's currently in the process of doing a (somewhat informal) study on. That's one thing that I really adore the look of and want done, but as a musician am incredibly paranoid about fucking up my hearing.

More or less what I was thinking of was a somewhat, er, novel junk piercing, which was why Samppa came up - apparently he's done stuff like that, but I haven't been able to find any updates on the matter. I just found his personal facebook page, though, and sent him a message asking him if he ever managed to do it. His terrible, terrible website only says that he was going to do it soon, and that was a few years ago.

[Zingoleb]

What's that I hear? Was it the sound of another reason for Zing to move to England?

also shush you 

[ackblom12]

Well, I'm awfully curious what it is now. Transcrotal? Urethral re-route with jewelry? PA Wand? Inversal with plug? Lots of things come to mind.

[Zingoleb]

I'm unsure how to explain it, since I'm not sure if it's even a really viable option, but let's say vibrating Jacob's ladder for simplicity's sake.

[ackblom12]

Well son of a bitch.

Body modification culture icon Stalking Cat was found dead at the age of 54.

[ackblom12]

Another icon of the community, ManWoman, has died of cancer.

[Jace]

If you see a swastika, that symbol of light and love, tattooed on someone, you can thank Manny.

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and think that most of the people I see with a swastika tattoo don't have it to symbolize light and love but more because it goes really well with the eagle and SS motif they've got going.

[Carl-E]

One of the few times I'm in complete agreement with Jace. 

[ackblom12]

Kind of, the Swastika's he's referring to look a bit different from the Nazi Swastika. Doesn't change that a good number of folks still get them for Neo-Nazi relations, but there has been a large and growing number of people getting Hindu Swastikas over the last 20 or so years within the body modification community. Please keep in mind this is being written to that community. You can make plenty of discussion over cultural appropriation and Noble Savage descriptions of the origins of tattoos within the community, but that's a different subject entirely.

Also could you guys maybe not shit all over the dead guy's obituary?

[nekowafer]

I don't think they meant any offense to ManWoman or his obituary.

[Carl-E]

I don't think they meant any offense to ManWoman or his obituary.

Not in the least.  The visual difference between the two swastikas is a matter of 45 degrees, something which not many practitioners acknowledge in their art.  As a person of jewish descent, I just get nervous when I see them.  It's fine when they are done as devotional items, but seeing them that way is rare in the US outside certain cultural enclaves. 

When my little brother shaved his head in the 80's because of his thick hair (he worked as an ice cream vendor in the heat of the beaches on cape cod), my mother's reaction was horror- shaving your head was someting that, at the time, was a symbol of neonazism.  She knew full well why he did it, and told him straight out that it wasn't the shaved head she was upset about, but what it stood for in the eyes of others.  The best of intentions behind a ruined symbol mean nothing in the panicked eye of the beholders. 

[ackblom12]

Ahhh, right. I forget that not everyone is aware of how most swastika tattos for non neo-nazi's look nowdays. First off, they're rarely done on their own if they are the more familiar style of Swastika, they pretty much always have Hindi context included with them nowdays, though some of the older reclamation tattoos did not. Some of the more modern ones that don't are done in ridiculously different styles. Here are some examples of more modern styles done through the last 10 years or so that I've been aware of them.

Part of ManWoman's collection, lot of these are 20 - 30 years old:



And others:

[ackblom12]

Keeping in mind I'm not saying this is anything that anyone should be forced to accept it. Personally, I think it's an admirable thing to be doing, especially since the art style surrounding it has changed over the years, but I have a lot to say about  the issue of a bunch of white dudes and ladies in the Western World culturally appropriating Hindi/Bhuddist symbolism, however well meaning it is.

[Papersatan]

When I picture a swastika tattoo on a neo-nazi it is solid black and angular with sharp corners and flat ends.  When I picture one as a tattoo in general I picture things like Stephen has posted above. They usually have dots in the inside corners and frequently are slightly stylized in an attempt to distinguish them.  They also, as Steve pointed out, are usually in the midst of other symbols.

The movement to tattoo swastikas was fairly important within the community as a way of reclaiming a symbol which had conflicting meanings for many people.  I think there is a fairly large group of people who practice Hinduism or Buddhism, or some form of Hindu-inspired or Buddhist- inspired spirituality within the community, which as Stephen said could be its own debate on cultural appropriation.  Within this spiritual community there is an approach to tattooing as a spiritual activity.  The act of tattooing someone, the act of enduring a tattoo, the resulting images, are seen as spiritual expression.  The intersection then of this particular symbol and tattooing is one with two sides.  One is the one Jace and Carl identify, the image of a menacing Neo-nazi covered in tattoos, and the other, is this group of people who have a spiritual belief that uses the swastika symbol, and involves tattooing.  The choice to include swastikas as a part of this tattooing was an attempt to reclaim the symbol, at least within the tattooing/body modification community. 

I also want to note that I see this movement being particularly strong in Europe.  I don't know if that is because it is, or it is just a matter of my exposure, but I can thing of several European artists who do this sort of work, and when talking tattooing and swastikas the first thing that comes to my mind is the (now closed?) Swastika Freakshop tattoo parlor in Germany and in particular Marc.

This is his explanation of the swastika.

[Jace]

Yeah I think if I saw any of those tattoos I wouldn't jump to neo nazi, unless I was at like a white power rally or something.

[BeoPuppy]

I would jump there in a heartbeat. And I'll judge however wears it.

[Barmymoo]

I'd suggest respectfully that if you know (as you now do, even if you didn't before) that the swastika is an important Hindi symbol, and from the context it's fairly clear in those photos that that is how they're being used, then you are being bigoted and reactionary.

[BeoPuppy]

I think that if you live in western society and have some sense of history you would know that a swastika like symbol is not going to come across very well with a certain part of the population. And since you know, you ought to be ready for a negative reaction.

Furthermore ... where is the sense in calling someone bigoted and reactionary 'respectfully'? Seems to me that this is difficult to accomplish, at best.

[Barmymoo]

I was trying to say that I don't think you personally are a bigot - just that the reaction itself is bigoted. But I didn't phrase it well, I'm sorry.

It's a question that might lend itself well to a Discuss thread actually. Should we allow groups like the Nazis and other extremists to appropriate symbols by refusing to condone/accept the non-fascist use, or should we simply require Hindus to give up an important symbol which has been around far longer than the Nazis? I personally believe that if enough people know about the roots of the swastika and can recognise the difference between the two types, eventually it could be reclaimed - and that's what those tattoos seem to be about.

It's a bit like the V for victory symbol and sticking two fingers up (this may only be a British thing). Two different meanings, easy to confuse unless you know.

[Akima]

This is his explanation of the swastika.

In the Chinese alphabet, the Swastika in a circle stands for “sun”, and without the circle it means the number 10,000 (in Chinese: wan or Wantzü) which means “come from the heavens”.

1) There is no such thing as a Chinese alphabet. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that, but the author plainly doesn't.
2) The swastika is a Chinese character, but it does not really mean anything other than, well, swastika. It simply symbolises itself as an auspicious character. You normally see it in the word 卍字 (also written 萬字, see 3 below) wànzì which simply means "swastika symbol".
2) The Chinese character for "sun" is 日. As you can see, it is not a swastika in a circle. My Chinese dictionaries don't include a swastika in a circle at all.
3) The Chinese character for 10,000 is 万 in Simplified and 萬 in Traditional. It is not a swastika, though it does have the same pronunciation as the swastika character: wàn.

To me, of course, 卍 is a holy (not quite the right word but I can't think of a better) symbol, one of the thirty-two marks of a Buddha, and its appropriation by the Nazis, and present-day association with the racist extreme right, is most unfortunate. I have very mixed feelings about the adoption of sacred symbols of one culture by another. I hope it is based on deeper cultural knowledge and understanding than that demonstrated by the linked article I quote above.

[BeoPuppy]

I was trying to say that I don't think you personally are a bigot - just that the reaction itself is bigoted. But I didn't phrase it well, I'm sorry.
[...]

Oh, don't be sorry, I'm not offended. I was just wondering about language.

[Lines]

I generally tend to have problems with anyone who appropriates symbols from other cultures that 1) they are not a part of and 2) do not understand, especially when they have historically been taken and misused by other cultures. Obviously Neo-Nazis wearing swastikas will piss off pretty much everyone who isn't a white supremacist. But the people who wear a swastika that is a reference to Hindu and is knowingly wearing it to show that it is Hindu and not Nazi are not doing it in a negative way and therefore should not be frowned upon. You can be white and show reverence to a non-western religion, especially if it is one you have adopted. I think I am honestly more offended by people who just put symbols on their body and get them wrong or have no idea what they really mean. Same with tattoos in a foreign language (especially when it's a bad or incorrect translation).

[Carl-E]

Seeing them with the dots, or the flared ends, provides cultural context for me as a viewer; however, even the centerpiece on Manwoman's back with it's birds is quite jarring. 

And to be honest, it took me about four tries to parse out the first sentence of the obituary - not because it was poorly written, but because the word swastika leaped out at me every time I tried to read it, making it impossible for me to see the words around it in context. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some cultural baggage is heavier than others. 

[Elysiana]

The area that I live in has so many white supremacists that I would be *fairly* certain most people here with a swastika (or Mjolnir, or valknut) tattoo are probably supremacists, though not all. There is also a large pagan population here that uses those symbols. Some people fall into both camps. I do know at least one (think she's heathen or perhaps Asatru) who was having trouble deciding whether or not to get a Mjolnir tat because she knew people would automatically assume she was a supremacist. Not sure if she ever got it done. Not sure if she's a supremacist or not, either, for that matter.

[Lines]

If she's worried about it, I doubt it. But I don't really see a connection with Mjolnir and white supremacy...that's kind of a dumb stretch, especially if it's in reference to the Thor comics and not just Thor legend.

[Jace]

Implying Thor isn't the Aryan god of Thunder?

[ackblom12]

[Lines]

Implying Thor isn't the Aryan god of Thunder?

Why can't Thor just be a dude with a hammer and some lightning?

[ackblom12]

Because Fascists.

[Welu]

Celebrities getting terrible tattoos.

[ackblom12]

Supposedly that's what it was supposed to look like. If it is, alright I guess. Looks like scratcher shit though.

[Carl-E]

Loved the comments. 

"I didn't know she'd done time"

[ackblom12]

Holllly shit look a this rhino piercing.



That is impressively deep.

[BeoPuppy]

How much did she get paid for this?

[Papersatan]

She probably paid them.  The business model for body modifiers sort of hinges on them getting paid.

[BeoPuppy]

Seeing the result I have a hard time accepting that proposition.

[ackblom12]

I like anyone interested in joining in on the discussion of the culture and procedures and asking questions, but I'd appreciate it if it resulted in that and not pointing fingers, cringing and stating how stupid/crazy people must be to do this.

[nekowafer]

I would say that a large majority (if not all) of the people that get new/innovative/different body modifications do it voluntarily, pay for it, and are super excited about the whole thing. And hopefully super excited about the results!

[ackblom12]

More experimental stuff (like the early eye tattoos, subclavicle piercings, early implants etc) probably doesn't have any money changing hands, also people who get free tattoos in exchange for being tattoo show models, but that's really about it.

[Carl-E]

Well, that one looks experimental. 

All right, I've never seen one like it, but that's hardly definitive.  Still, it's being used as an ad (I think, by the captions on the pic). 



And it will certainly keep the glasses from sliding off her nose!   [couldn't resist]

[ackblom12]

It's what's called a Rhino Piercing. It's not terribly common, but it's been around for a good 20 years or so at least. What makes this one so impressive is just how incredibly deep it is. Usually it's more like this:



It was likely added to the piercer's portfolio, hence the text. A lot of piercers put their info on the photo so that if it's copy-pasted around the internet, the source is clear and they continue getting credit for the work.

[Lines]

That looks incredibly painful. And looks like it's probably a bitch to take care of/has a long healing time.

[ackblom12]

Yeah, I imagine it's going to be rather sensitive for a couple of months at least. That's a hell of a lot of cartilage to go through.