THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 25 Jul 2025, 07:30
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Classical metal  (Read 14426 times)

indiansteve

  • Guest
Classical metal
« on: 16 Oct 2005, 11:26 »

Well my friend keeps bugging me to find out what kind of music this is. It's like metal with a whole orchestra playing with them. I don't know what it's called or what some of the bands are. So if any of you internet people would like to point me in the right direction then I thank you.
Logged

Reno

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #1 on: 16 Oct 2005, 12:59 »

Virtuoso Metal is what you are refering to I believe

and example of this is No Leaf Clover by Metallica.  I love the sound of it, the string bass and the cellos and stuff give it an eerie feel but such power.  

I dont really know any names for ya besides that one, sorry
Logged

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,130
  • Tall. Beets.
Classical metal
« Reply #2 on: 16 Oct 2005, 13:06 »

No Leaf Clover is my favourite Metallica track.
Logged
In the end, the thing people will remember is kindness.

Kid Modernist

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #3 on: 16 Oct 2005, 14:18 »

Khar?
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #4 on: 16 Oct 2005, 15:05 »

@ Reno: No.

Okay, you are basically looking at two things this could be. Based on the description, you basically want a band called Therion. Although they only technically have three members, their last album had somewhere like 180 musicians and vocalists appearing on it, including a full choir and symphony orchestra. Download the following tracks: "Nifelheim", "Typhon", "Abraxas", "To Mega Therion". Awesome band, in my book. Don't be indiscriminate though, as their earlier stuff is pure death metal. Albums after and including 'Theli' are what you're mainly after. I can't think of any other band that does this all the time, though several others have done it more one-off (most famously, Metallica's S&M, and possibly Cradle of Filth's Damnation and a Day, though that's pretty shite).

Alternatively, and more commonly, there's Symphonic Metal, which sticks to the band format but uses more overt classical elements than normal (Startling fact: A lot of metal, particularly European metal, is heavily rooted in classical structures) including lots of orchestral keys and pads, an above-normal number of vocalists, and increased use of devices like lietmotifs and classical sounding riffs. These come in a few flavours, Symphonic Black Metal (such as Dimmu Borgir or Cradle of Filth, but also less well-known (and better) groups like Illnath and to an extent Sigh) and some power metal, particularly bands like Rhapsody, Avantasia, Yngwie J. Malmsteen's Rising Force, etc. But also bands from many other metal genres, such as Doom (My Dying Bride, Virgin Black), Death (Matriarch) etc.

Also, you might want to check out Apocalyptica. They play metal, but they're a string quartet. I think that's pretty cool myself.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

jariku

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #5 on: 16 Oct 2005, 15:21 »

The finnish crossover band Waltari did a "death metal symphony" album back in 1993 called Yeah! Yeah! Die! Die! Death Metal Symphony In Deep C or something like that. They had the Avanti symphony orchestra with them on the album.

I think they're a steaming pile of shit, but you might want to check them out anyway.
Logged

indiansteve

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #6 on: 16 Oct 2005, 17:21 »

Thank you for all the help.

I love you.
Logged

1patheticloser

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #7 on: 16 Oct 2005, 17:40 »

Khar, I read the OP and the first thing I thought was Therion as well. Listen to this man, he knows his shit.

Also: Try Hollenthon and Tristania (a little more goth-y)
Logged

Soidanae

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 128
Classical metal
« Reply #8 on: 16 Oct 2005, 18:43 »

Oh, Khar, I think they're a trio now...
Logged
I believe these are the days of lasers in the jungle, lasers in the jungle somewhere.  Staccato signals of constant information, a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires, and baby, these are the days of miracles and wonders.

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #9 on: 16 Oct 2005, 19:11 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

...Although they only technically have three members, their last album had somewhere like 180 musicians and vocalists appearing on it...


Only Christofer Johnsson, Kristian Niemann and Johan Niemann are 'the band'. 'The band' takes up a miniscule proportion of any album credits. Lemuria, for example, has five instrumental guest musician, (Drums, keys, domra, 3x prima balalaika), 2 guest rock vocalists, one narrator, 6 classical vocal soloists (2x Soprano, 2 x Alt, Tenor, Bass), 2 classical instrumental soloists (Oboe, horn) plus the entire City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra and Kuhn Mixed Choir.

'The band' only does guitars, bass, and some keys. They don't exist without the rest. They don't even write most of the lyrics, Thomas Karlsson does that.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

jariku

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #10 on: 17 Oct 2005, 00:44 »

I thought Soidanae was referring to Apocalyptica?
Logged

Reno

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #11 on: 17 Oct 2005, 07:57 »

@ Khar: Thanks...I wasnt 100% sure to start with, and now I can shut off my brain early cause I have learned my new thing for the day hehe
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #12 on: 17 Oct 2005, 11:21 »

Quote from: jariku
I thought Soidanae was referring to Apocalyptica?


When I saw them in February there were five of them.

I dunno.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

jariku

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #13 on: 17 Oct 2005, 11:52 »

According to the website, there are three members. Two of them are founding members and one joined the band later, when half of the original four had split from the group.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #14 on: 17 Oct 2005, 13:47 »

Well, that split has happened recently, I must say.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

duplo

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #15 on: 17 Oct 2005, 15:00 »

would Symphony X be considered classical metal?
Logged

Se7en

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #16 on: 17 Oct 2005, 15:48 »

Ive heard some prog rock meets metal type of records. Is this similar?
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #17 on: 17 Oct 2005, 23:36 »

Not really. Whilst their is some cross-over in the symphonic metal bands, as in there are some symphonic/prog bands (Like Symphony X) prog metal /= symphonic metal, although some people would say symphonic metal was progressive metal, though that sort of genrefication never really caught on. There was a point where anything breaking away from traditional metal was called prog (everything from Celtic Frost to Skyclad).
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,263
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Classical metal
« Reply #18 on: 18 Oct 2005, 03:31 »

As soon as I read the OP I thought of the Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded reunion version of "Kashmir." But then again, I wouldn't exactly classify Zep as metal, even though back in their day that's what they were.
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

jariku

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #19 on: 18 Oct 2005, 04:11 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
Well, that split has happened recently, I must say.

Not really, no. I think the two founding members who left, left after the second album. You seem to confuse playing with the band live with actually being in the band. I wouldn't say Dave Lombardo is a member of Apocalyptica, even though he played on at least one of their albums.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #20 on: 18 Oct 2005, 10:58 »

Well, all the guys I saw live were definitely in the video for Harmageddon. Or maybe they just looked like it live. The really stiff dude in the Lennon glasses was definitely playing with them, and he doesn't seem to be in the band now.

Wouldn't have to be that recent. February 5th was when I saw 'em, according to the ticket.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

IntermittentEvil

  • Guest
Genre nitpicking/explanation
« Reply #21 on: 23 Oct 2005, 00:44 »

So, there was a little discussion of genre.  Symphony X (and bands such as Rhapsody) fall into the Neoclassical metal genre; this differs from prog mostly in the even heavier (!) emphasis on fast, classically influenced guitar wankery (I mean this in the best possible light; Symphony X is awesome).  Symphonic metal also fits Symphony X, but this genre usually means that they're using keyboards a lot, or violin, or something non-metal; Neoclassical can easily be just guitar, drums and bass.  Oh, metal genres....  Otherwise, Therion is exactly what you're thinking of.  Also, Trans-Siberian Orchestra fits neatly into that category, and they've managed to make possibly the best christmas music ever!  Headbang to "Carol of the Bells"! ROCK!
Logged

Trollstormur

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,652
  • Death To America
    • http://www.goat.cx
Classical metal
« Reply #22 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:04 »

I'd like to be an expert on all this metal stuff, but Khar does it so much better than I ever could. I can fill in a few gaps occasionally, but dang.
Logged
also israel

Storm Rider

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,075
  • Twelve stories high, made of radiation
Classical metal
« Reply #23 on: 23 Oct 2005, 01:46 »

Khar is the motherfuckin' Rosetta Stone of metal.
Logged
Quote
[22:06] Shane: We only had sex once
[22:06] Shane: and she was wicked just...lay there

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #24 on: 23 Oct 2005, 02:41 »

Aww shucks. I'd hardly say that. My knowledge is broad but it ain't amazingly deep. Not compared to some certainly.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,263
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Classical metal
« Reply #25 on: 23 Oct 2005, 05:16 »

I'd make a "Your MOM is broad and deep" joke but I'd feel bad.
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

McTaggart

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,416
  • Positive feedback.
Classical metal
« Reply #26 on: 23 Oct 2005, 07:04 »

Could I most politely ask that someone be kind enough to yousendit and mp3 from Apocalyptica. Because they sound like they could be bloody awesome.
Logged
One day ends and another begins and we're never none the wiser.

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #27 on: 23 Oct 2005, 07:41 »

Apocalyptica - Beyond Time sticks in my mind as rather awesome. Be warned though, Apocalyptica is supposedly 'bad', according to hipsters.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

McTaggart

  • William Gibson's Babydaddy
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,416
  • Positive feedback.
Classical metal
« Reply #28 on: 23 Oct 2005, 23:06 »

Hipsters? Fuck 'em. Thats pretty damn good. I'll keep an eye out for cds next time I'm out.

Thanks man.
Logged
One day ends and another begins and we're never none the wiser.

Verek

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #29 on: 24 Oct 2005, 03:55 »

Generally they refer to it in 'teh scene' (sic) as neoclassical metal.

But WTF ever, holmes.

Personally, my favourite example of this style of metal is Winds, a Norwegian All-Star studio band who plays with a string quartet. They're strictly a studio band, however, but that allows them to create very layered songs.

Anyway, check 'em out. Either of their albums are great, but The Imaginary Direction of Time will probably be easier to track down.
Logged

Borondir

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
    • My Last.Fm
Classical metal
« Reply #30 on: 24 Oct 2005, 22:24 »

Thank you khar, while I understand the feeling of not having even scratched the surface of true metal, you did a remarkable job of quickly explaining neo-classical metal.  I wish I could add something, but I can't really. Except maybe that Virgin Black, operatic doom metal with cello and piano, is my favorite band ever. Seriously.  

PS Virgin Black just recorded with the Adelaide Symphony for their next album.

PPS Yeah, Winds is pretty cool too.
Logged

La Creme

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #31 on: 24 Oct 2005, 22:49 »

For a more classic rock version of all the things above (Therion, eff teh fucking dubaya), check out Rick Wakeman's (of Yes) album "Journey To The Center Of The Earth". Two movements, telling the classic story. 5-peice rock band + narrator, and a huge fucking orchestra (from somewhere in England) and huger choir. Pretty great album. Some of it's a little geeky, but that's something you need to learn to put up with when you get into symphonic metal. Or, shit, just metal. Most of it anyways. Grain of salt, all that.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #32 on: 25 Oct 2005, 06:21 »

Quote from: Borondir
Except maybe that Virgin Black, operatic doom metal with cello and piano, is my favorite band ever. Seriously.  


Virgin Black are pretty damn cool. Actually, I think I already mentioned them in my first post along with my beloved My Dying Bride. (I gave 'Turn Loose the Swans' another spin recently...if anyone remotely interested in metal here doesn't own it I suggest they rectify this situation now.)
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Borondir

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
    • My Last.Fm
Classical metal
« Reply #33 on: 25 Oct 2005, 11:14 »

I would agree on the Turn Loose the Swans essentialness.  Violins FTW!

Yeah you did mention Virgin Black, I was just emphasizing their awesomeness.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #34 on: 25 Oct 2005, 11:15 »

It's just so well paced...I don't think there's even an electric guitar for the first ten minutes or something.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Borondir

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 191
    • My Last.Fm
Classical metal
« Reply #35 on: 25 Oct 2005, 11:20 »

Yeah, too many metal bands don't have the patience to do something that effective.  When I first got Turn Loose the Swans in the summer of 04, I listened to both ways driving to work for 2 weeks straight.  Amazing stuff!
Logged

Vlishgnath

  • Guest
Classical metal
« Reply #36 on: 25 Oct 2005, 12:13 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
My Dying Bride


I fell in love with these guys when 'The Angel and the Dark River' came out (first exposure to them), but the successive CD's haven't done anything for me.    Is 'Swans' closer to the feeling of that CD or how would you equate the two?
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,456
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Classical metal
« Reply #37 on: 25 Oct 2005, 14:16 »

Turn Loose the Swans is much closer to The Angel and the Dark River than their later stuff: same use of the violin and  keys, same doomdeath style and classic singing, none of that narration-type stuff. I'd get Turn Loose the Swans and also Trinity, which is a compendium of their first three EPs, (Symphonaire Infernus Et Spera Empyrium, The Thrash of Naked Limbs, I Am The Bloody Earth). I haven't actually got As The Flower Withers, but I have heard a few tracks as bonus material on the new Peaceville re-releases, and in keeping with Symphonaire... it seems much more brutal than TLtS.

TLtS is an out and out classic though. One of the most perfect doom records ever made in my opinion, never mind sub-subgenre.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio
Pages: [1]   Go Up