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[mrjjbobo]

Hey, I love indie music. The grittier, more untamed and more personal it is the more I love it. Maybe I'm not immensely esoteric in my knowlege of indie, but my listening spills out beyond mixes from the OC. That aside, there is also another part of my musical world, and that is the musical world of independent hip hop.

It is like indie music in a different genre, it is personal, but there's more. There's not much snobbery (unless you compare it to 50 cent or things like that) and there's just an overall feeling of community with it.

But this makes me an unwanted child in the music realm. My Hip Hop friends think that my indie stuff is no talent junk, and my indie friends think that my hip-hop is all about guns, women, and the ghetto. I assure you neither are true. I wanted to know if anyone else is in this wierd place, loving two great but different genres of music and because of it being shuned by both. I feel like it's the capulets and the montegues here.

Anyway, here's some examples of the indie hiphop I listen to (if you have good stuff I forget about list it, lets communicate on the subject)

Atmosphere
BluePrint
Brother Ali
Cage
Copywrite
The Crest
Cunninlynguists
Felt
Hangar 18
I self define
Lyrics Born
MF Doom
P.O.S.
Sage Francis
Tonedeff
Aesop Rock

anyways, if I'm not alone, post. Or if you hate it post. Lets just talk.

[Storm Rider]

Hangar 18

The fact that there is an indie hip-hop group named after a Megadeth song makes me happy in ways I cannot express in words.

[heretic]

you forgot
heiroglyphics (sp?)
the streets
jugganaughts (sp?)
Dizzee Rascal
blackalicious/ gift of gab

i went to this RJD2 show in NO last year and diplo and lyrics born were opening, i'd never heard of either of them, and diplo was pretty good, but LB stole the damn show. RJ was excellent but LB and his wife are amazing. (wierd thing was, for RJ's second encore, he played and sang a song on acoustic guitar)
saw LB again later that year, not as good, but his bassist was sick

[Kid Modernist]

Hip hop annonymous?

I'd add Deltron 3030.

[KharBevNor]

Isn't RJD2 more sort of instrumental trip-hoppy kind of stuff?

Also, seriously, why are all you indie kids so obsessed with The Streets? They're absolutely awful...I suppose it's just because you don't get the whole chav culture and whatnot, but they're a bloody banal, chavalicious crap heap. One of my favourite pieces of art on exhibition at my local art gallery is a Streets CD which has been sawed in half and mounted in a frame with 'Dry your eyes mate' written in board marker between the two halves.

Seriously though, they're like Goldie Lookin' Chain but without the 'being a joke' thing.

That said, you should all listen to more GLC. Even I like me some GLC.

[mrjjbobo]

Ha! I like that, Hip Hop annonymous. I would be a proud member.
as for these groups:
heiroglyphics (sp?)
the streets
blackalicious/ gift of gab
thanks for reminding me of them, they were kind of my gate way groups, like J 5 and Blackalicious were the first groups I ever listened to.

All the other ones are ones I've either never heard of or never heard of, so sweet. I listend in kindergarden, I like to share.

I forgot:

Louis Logic
Apathy
Self Titled
Vakill
Jedi Mind Tricks
Mr. Lif
Eyedea (sp?)
Juice
Young Bloods
Longshot (though I don't like him that much)
Ill Bill
Non Phixion

[mrjjbobo]

what is it with you ski-cap wearing kitties making broad stereotyes saying A) we're indie kids or that there is even a we or B) that we love the streets. How many indie kids have you met that like the streets? A ton is not a legitimate answer. I want a number.

Now if I didn't make the same stereotypes you just did all the time I would really rebuke you, instead I embrace you, and your adorable avatar.

p.s. I don't really like the streets either, but they don't make me punch babies, so they're okay

[lastclearchance]

Are we talking specifically indie, as in not on major labels? Or do all backpackers count?

[a pack of wolves]

I wanted to know if anyone else is in this wierd place, loving two great but different genres of music and because of it being shuned by both. I feel like it's the capulets and the montegues here.

Is this a common thing among big fans of indie and hip-hop? I'm just wondering because that kind of attitude would be an anathema to most people I know. There's a punk and hardcore club I go to where they always drop stuff like Dizzee Rascal, Dead Prez and Roots Manuva into the set and it packs the dancefloor, so I just don't get it.

[mrjjbobo]

well, I don't know if it is commen, but then again, I'm at college, there are a lot of snobs. As to labels, well, I'm not a hater, but most major label makes me mad because they seem to besmirch what hip hop can be. But maybe I'm just being a jerk about it. On the whole, 50 cent, Ja Rule, G Unit, Snoop Dogg, they don't do anything other than give their genre a bad name.

Well, I do like some of Ja's older stuff

[Hat]

I liked Original Pirate Material, pretty much entirely for "The Irony of it All" and "Too much Brandy" and then I sat down and listened to A Grand Don't Come For Free, and now I just can't listen to Original Pirate Material at all anymore. Its depressing, because there are a few good songs on it, but now all the songs I was impartial to before just remind me of how bad Grand was.

Also, I am not a hip-hop person by any standard, but I have fallen for Atmosphere in a big way. I should probably check out some of the stuff mentioned here, but can anyone specifically name groups that go in for that sound that is very un-minimalist, which lots of varied melodical sampling, and even live instrumentals behind them on their recordings? That stuff does a lot more for me than the simple drum/bass/vocal tracks that my hip-hop inclined friends are more into.

[KharBevNor]

what is it with you ski-cap wearing kitties making broad stereotyes saying A) we're indie kids or that there is even a we or B) that we love the streets. How many indie kids have you met that like the streets? A ton is not a legitimate answer. I want a number.

Well, Heretic is an Indie kid, and both 'Original Pirate Material' and 'A Grand Don't Come For Free' are featured on Pitchfork's top 100 albums of the last 5 years. Which I think would indicate they have some sort of indie cred.

[Catatonik]

I have been a fan of hip-hop for a while.

Especially:

MF Doom, I simply love the mans flow and demented sense of humour.
Immortal Technique, hip-hops angry ***ing metalhead. Lyrically blunt, intelligent and uncompromising.
K'naan, coming out of Mogadishu in Somalia, and now living in Canada, K'naan is highly intelligen, has a live band and some really good lyrics and tracks (though he does sound eerily like Eminem vocally at times.)
Q-tip, A Tribe Called Quest, Spearhead, Internal Affairs, Mos Def, Kano, Shadow Huntaz, Blackalicious, Public Enemy, The Last Emperor, KRS-1, and so on and so forth.



I enjoy the Streets in the same way I enjoy Rhapsody, you have to laugh because they aren't.

[KharBevNor]

There's a punk and hardcore club I go to where they always drop stuff like Dizzee Rascal, Dead Prez and Roots Manuva into the set and it packs the dancefloor, so I just don't get it.

Yeah, but that's just one of those wierd musical crossovers. It's the same as the way you could get a surprising number of Black Metal fans dancing to Anne Clark or Dead Can Dance. Liking Indie's a whole different sort of musical taste to predominantly liking punk and hardcore.

[a pack of wolves]

I was mainly thinking of the massive aversion and dismissal of a whole, big other genre. Plus, I don't think the bit where they play old school rave type stuff is a crossover you'd expect. They whacked on Trip To Trumpton last time. Genius.

[Joseph]

K-Os and Jedi Mind Tricks are two I'm liking at the moment, that haven't been mentioned yet.

[KharBevNor]

I was mainly thinking of the massive aversion and dismissal of a whole, big other genre. Plus, I don't think the bit where they play old school rave type stuff is a crossover you'd expect. They whacked on Trip To Trumpton last time. Genius.

Well, you know, I'm not so sure it's even dismissed. I mean, lots of indie kids seem to like rap, at least from indie rappers.

I've never really found any rap I can stand, even Hammertime gets on my nerves, but that's just me. I don't dance that way, and the beats and method of delivery screws up any poetry in it for me.

[Catatonik]

I dunno, I used to think I couldn't like hip-hop, but time and exposure to some of the really good stuff, well...

It won me over.

[MilkmanDan]

My Hip Hop friends think that my indie stuff is no talent junk, and my indie friends think that my hip-hop is all about guns, women, and the ghetto.

I wish I had more Hip-Hop friends to mock my indie favourites. Instead I have nowt but indie friends to mock my love of Hip-Hop and "dance crap".
I can't claim to straddle the divide (if there really is one), as I love Hip-Hop far far more than indie, but at least I try. Jeeeesus.

On the naming artists topic. No-one has mentioned Wu-tang Clan, Mobb Deep, Juelz Santana or Cunninlynguists which saddens me, as they are pretty much all I'm listening to at the moment on the strictly Hip-hop vibe.
I'm also keen as fuck on the Grime at the moment. Dizzy Rascal, Roll Deep, Jammer, Skepta, Ruff Sqwad, Geeneus, Kano, Black Ops, and so on and so forth.

[Catatonik]

I had completely forgotten the Cunninlynguists though their most recent outing wasn't their strongest.

[KharBevNor]

They were mentioned in the first post...

[JLM]

But this makes me an unwanted child in the music realm. My Hip Hop friends think that my indie stuff is no talent junk, and my indie friends think that my hip-hop is all about guns, women, and the ghetto. I assure you neither are true. I wanted to know if anyone else is in this wierd place, loving two great but different genres of music and because of it being shuned by both. I feel like it's the capulets and the montegues here.

You need to bring your hip-hop and indie friends together by listening to Dälek, who combines the best of both worlds.

[est]

don't we have a new "am i alone in listening to decent hip-hop?" thread in here every couple months?

short response: no.  no you are not, my friend.  i'm more into old-school stuff like A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Q-Tip, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five (hurr hurr).  but i do like Mos Def, Sage Francis, Blackalicious, Talib Kweli, Jurassic 5, etc.  i really should start looking around at some of the other stuff that people suggest, though.  

although, it seems that when i do i am mostly disappointed.  i checked out Jay-Z and Wu-Tang Clan after the last iteration of this thread, and while Jay-Z can rap well & has a couple of decent tracks it was mostly a bag full of disappointment.  maybe i need to go towards some of the smaller names this time.

i've never really understood the appeal of the Wu Tang Clan.  isn't it just like, 30 guys in a room together rapping really badly and pretending to be ninjas or something?  that's kinda what it sounds like to me.  please point me to something you think is decent Wu-Tang so i can check it out, because only two tracks on their "greatest hits" album "Legend of the Wu-Tang" came close to impressing me (Triumph & Uzi).

come to think of it, don't bother.  i've figured out why i don't like them!  i mean, the music is ok and all that, but only a couple of them can rap worth a damn.  there will be stretches where i start to get into it, but them some dude who's sloppy as hell will come in and i'll be like "dude fuck, just shut up and let the others keep going".

also, i've heard that not a lot of other rappers like Jurassic 5, and that people seem to think that they are overhyped, snobby bastards.  has anyone heard anything about this, or was the article i read (someplace, i forget) unique in this viewpoint?

[elcapitan]

If we're going to try and talk about "indie" hip-hop, then neither the Streets nor groups like Mobb Deep and Blackalicious really fit the bill. Honestly, why complicate it? Just say you listen to hip-hop. It's as broad a genre as rock, but why pigeonhole it? If people denigrate you for not listening to a "cool" subgenre, fuck 'em. Fuck 'em.

I'm listening to my friend's brother's first promo at the moment, actually, a guy who goes by the name Roshambo. If you're Aussie and you listen to the Hip-Hop Show on TripleJ, you might have heard his single The ?uestion. I've also been listening to some Kanye West - I tell you, I wrote the man off at first, but on second listen his stuff is actually pretty damn good. And some of the stuff that he's worked/produced/whatever with John Legend is really, really nice.

[MilkmanDan]

come to think of it, don't bother.  i've figured out why i don't like them!  i mean, the music is ok and all that, but only a couple of them can rap worth a damn.  there will be stretches where i start to get into it, but them some dude who's sloppy as hell will come in and i'll be like "dude fuck, just shut up and let the others keep going".

This is precisly why (well, partly why) Wu-tang are so awesome. Each of their 50 bajillion members have released solo albums as well, so you simply figure out who you like, and get their solo stuff. In my personal opinion, It goes GZA > Raekwon > Ghostface Killah > Method Man > ODB > The rest. At least, that's my view at the moment.
However, if you don't like 'Enter the 36 Chambers' then maybe the Wu ain't for you. Bear in mind that circa 'Enter the 36 Chambers' they had 9 members, whereas by 2004 there were about 9 people in the entire world who weren't.

[Tabilus]

I wanted to know if anyone else is in this wierd place, loving two great but different genres of music and because of it being shuned by both. I feel like it's the capulets and the montegues here.

Is this a common thing among big fans of indie and hip-hop? I'm just wondering because that kind of attitude would be an anathema to most people I know. There's a punk and hardcore club I go to where they always drop stuff like Dizzee Rascal, Dead Prez and Roots Manuva into the set and it packs the dancefloor, so I just don't get it.

Hell no. If anything, (and I hate this phrase) the "indie scene" that I know, fully embraces hip hop...as long as it's good.

[Radiowar]

I'm getting into Japanese stuff. m-flo, Loop Junktion, Ozrosaurus, Steph Pockets...

[MilkmanDan]

Tha Blue Herb?
Not to mention the number one man in town, DJ Krush.

[mrjjbobo]

man, wow, so much good stuff.

so, to recap some thoughts and provide some answers.

1. How could I forget to mention Immortal Technique, I love Immortal Technique, I quoted him for my round table debate senior year of highschool.

2. I allready mentioned Jedi Mind Tricks, Dark Flame.

3. Hat, Atmosphere is my favorite Hip-Hop group and my second favorite musical group of all time. I have all their albums which I could list, but it's easy enough to find. Also Check out anything else by Rhyme Sayers entertainment (sp?) I am a fan of Brother Ali and P.O.S. They all have beats made by Ant (Atmospheres beat man) so it's mad good. Also check out the Felt Albums, they are colaborations between Slug (of Atmosphere) and Murs. If you buy Atmospheres new cd, You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're Having, it comes with a sample cd of all the artsits on Rhyme Sayers.

4. MilkMan Dan, I avoided mentioning Wu-Tang cause they don't do much for me at all. Well, I do love the video game, I'll kill all ya as ghost face.

5. est, I love de la soul, but was really just mentioning new school underground which leads me to my next point

6. elcapitan, I specificaly pigeonhole it because hip-hop is an abused and misunderstood term. If you go on itunes and grab yourself a cd of DMX and a cd of Beans, they will both be listed as hip-hop/rap despite niether even being romotely similar to the point of needing to be in different genres. So here in this post I only site underground hip-hop, though for the desire for unity, I don't argue weather or not the groups posted by other members are "indie" or not.

I forgot:

AdeEm (check the sp on that one)

[Catatonik]

I'd also add Buck 65, folk hip-hop with Tom Waits undertones.

Very gravelly and entertaining and the man kick ass on a turntable.

[MilkmanDan]

3. Hat, Atmosphere is my favorite Hip-Hop group and my second favorite musical group of all time. I have all their albums which I could list, but it's easy enough to find.

You got Headshots Vol. 2 (Arrogance)? I'm missing Track 4 off that album and it's pissing me off big time. If you could upload that track I'd love you long time. In a non-weird way.

Anyone up on DJ Screw? Deep South Hip-Hop at all? It's major, major hassle trying to get DJ Screw tapes, except for unlistenably poor-bitrate incomplete rips that seem to float around various P2P places.

[Radiowar]

Tha Blue Herb?
Not to mention the number one man in town, DJ Krush.

Yep them too.

Can't forget Nitro Microphone Underground. They're pretty good.

[MilkmanDan]

Never heard of Ozrosaurus, Steph Pockets or Nitro Microphone Underground.
I'l have to check them out.

[Praeserpium Machinarum]

I don't listen to hip hop

I just don't get most hip hop, I like grime a bit, but I dislike american stuff. Quite. I remember listening to El-P's Fantastic Damage, and I just turned it off. Mostly it's the braggadocio that gets to me, which I realise probably means I dislike hip hop as a whole since it's near impossible to evade. Unless of course it's instrumental like DJ Shadow.
Some albums I did like:
Dizzee Rascal - Boy in Da Corner(even if it was fucked up)
The Streets - Original Pirate Material
Goldie Lookin' Chain - Greatest Hits(Straight Outta Newport in USA)
and some danish artists like Malk de Koijn(in small doses) and Bikstok Røgsystem.

Can anyone direct me towards non-braggadocio hiphop with something at least minorly interesting to say?

[Catatonik]

Hmmm.

K'naan - The Dusty Foot Philosopher, is not about braggado but about the situation and hellishness of his homelad (Somalia)
Deltron 3030, is a pseudo geeky concept album about a freestyle intergalactic competition in the year 3030
Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Volume 2, although there is moments of braggado, it focusses mainly on his dissatisfaction with the government and actually intelligent issues.
Mad Villian - Madvillian, geeky super villian stuf with weird samples great beats and a great sense of humour.
Internal Affairs - Sweet Home Babylon, no braggadacio what so ever, just a wry, wiitty and sharp look at our modern societies..I'll help you out with this one if you are interested as they are local and almost impossible to find.
Buck 65 - Talking Honky Blues, gritty Tom Waits-esque music, down country persona, thought provoking and often funny lyrics.

Other recommendations, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Mos Def, Blackalicious, Spearhead, Q-tip, A Tribe Called Quest, Nujabes...

[MilkmanDan]

Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Volume 2, although there is moments of braggado, it focusses mainly on his dissatisfaction with the government and actually intelligent issues.

Immortal Technique's ego is larger than a couple of continents. Intelligent Issues, yes. Lack of braggado, no.

Praeserpium Machinarum: If you are down with the UK sound, try Roots Manuva's latest, Awfully Deep. It's mainly about the fact that he can't deal with his success and the breakdowns he has experienced because of it. Which is pretty unbraggadolicious, any way you look at it.
Sagre Francis - Personal Journals, too.

Hip-Hop is based on clever word play, and unfortunatley (for you) much of it is clever word play about how great their clever word play is.

[Catatonik]

I actually agree about Techniques ego, which is why I went for Volume 2 over volume 1...

Admittedly it's got some heavy braggadacio moment (heavy) but the songs that don't are worth it.

Especially Peruvian Cocaine, The 4th Branch and Cause of Death.

[mrjjbobo]

milkmandan, you're going to have to wait on that headshots, my copy here at college is scratched to hell so I have to wait until I go home next week to get it off my original. But yeah, I'll do it.

Also, the whole bragging thing is just a part of hiphop. I mean, to me it seems that indie is about how personal it can get while hiding the meaning behind elaborate metaphores, and emo is about being as vulnerable as you can be, and punk is about countering popular beliefs with alternative sound, and hiphop, in part, is about giving a message and propping your self at the same time. It's a lot easier to rap about how you're better than someone that a real message. and come on, some of it is funny.

"If f**king was rapping your whole crew would be celibate" -Copyright

AND BEFORE ANYONE KILLS ME FOR THAT LAST RUN ON SENTENCE IT IS JUST MY OPINION, NOT LAW.

[mrjjbobo]

milkmandan, you're going to have to wait on that headshots, my copy here at college is scratched to hell so I have to wait until I go home next week to get it off my original. But yeah, I'll do it.

Also, the whole bragging thing is just a part of hiphop. I mean, to me it seems that indie is about how personal it can get while hiding the meaning behind elaborate metaphores, and emo is about being as vulnerable as you can be, and punk is about countering popular beliefs with alternative sound, and hiphop, in part, is about giving a message and propping your self at the same time. It's a lot easier to rap about how you're better than someone that a real message. and come on, some of it is funny.

"If f**king was rapping your whole crew would be celibate" -Copyright

AND BEFORE ANYONE KILLS ME FOR THAT LAST RUN ON SENTENCE/PARAGRAPH IT IS JUST MY OPINION, NOT LAW.

[mrjjbobo]

sorry about the double post, my computer is dumb... and so am I.

[KharBevNor]

Jeez, I'm scatterbrained. How could I not mention my myspace buddies?

Grossiss: Gives a new meaning to 'sick rapping'.

Rare Form: DEATH TO THE WORLD!

[Nosve]

Sage Francis

Man, Sage Francis is probably my favorite hip-hop artist. I'm presently writing part of a paper for jazz class about "Threewrite" as a legacy of blues music.

What turns me off to a lot of hip-hop is its self-centeredness. Too many raps are just about inflating egos--the rhymes might be skilled, but when there's no other content to it they wear out quickly. Sage Francis makes me happy in that a lot of his songs get away from that tendency.

[Gryff]

Princess Superstar, bitches.

Kind of a lot of ego-rapping with the Princess, but it's done in an ironic way. Not sure about her latest album yet.

…

Man, there are so many names here. I've only been into hip-hop for a year or so, so there're so many things I need to catch up on. When you pretty much ignore an entire genre for so long, the floodgates open up and there's too much to check out!

[lastclearchance]

I was very impressed with Jean Grae when she opened on the Breedlove Odyssey Tour.

[Gryff]

Hmm, Jean Grae is playing the Big Day Out, along with Edan and Common. Could be a good time for the hip-hop.

[Bunnyman]

i went to this RJD2 show in NO last year and diplo and lyrics born were opening, i'd never heard of either of them, and diplo was pretty good, but LB stole the damn show. RJ was excellent but LB and his wife are amazing. (wierd thing was, for RJ's second encore, he played and sang a song on acoustic guitar)
saw LB again later that year, not as good, but his bassist was sick

Oddly enough, I saw RJD2 and LB last night, and I thought that LB was a loudmouth, self-important ass with absolutely NOTHING to bring, musically, lyrically, or otherwise.

RJD2 is amazing, especially when he lets loose and throws something fresh and original together.  His second set reminded me a lot of "Constant Elevation Say," but crazier, including the coolest breakdown of "Chicken Bone Circuit" ever.

I discovered recently that Mobb Deep joined G-Unit.  This made me very sad...Mobb Deep and NaS are the only reasons to listen to Gangsta Rap.

The RZA has done some awesome stuff.  Check out the Ghost Dog soundtrack.

I find it interesting that someone was turned off by the braggadocio in El-P's "Fantastic Damage," seeing as that wasn't at all the point of that album.  I suspect that it could grate on some people, but it practically felt like industrial noise at times, which I rather enjoy.

No one's mentioned Cannibal Ox yet.  Vast Aire is an awesome MC - mixing the braggadocio with metageekery and with impossibly good wordsmithing to boot.  He's appeared on everyone else's stuff (on Def Jux, anyway - "Dr. Hellno and the Praying Mantus," anyone?) and "Cold Vein" is one of the finest Hip-Hop albums yet crafted.

And if you're getting Experimental, Ninja Tune stuff is great.  Kid Koala, Coldcut, Hexstatic...all amazing turntable/audio collagists.  To say nothing of Krush, Shadow, etc.

[La Creme]

I can't live wifout my:

MF Doom/Victor Vaughn/Madvillain/any other name he go by
Dalek
Atmosphere
A Tribe Called Quest
Deltron 3030 (Some guy left a CD of his in my friend's car one time, and i took it home. I give it my milk every night. And by that I mean I haven't listened to it in a long time. It's time to pick that shit up.)

[MilkmanDan]

I discovered recently that Mobb Deep joined G-Unit.  This made me very sad...Mobb Deep and NaS are the only reasons to listen to Gangsta Rap.

Fo Realz? That's kinda lame. Doesn't stop The Infamous being one of my favourite albums ever though.
On another note, YNR Productions is an amazing label. It has Jehst, Tommy Evans, Klashnekoff, Yungun and Evil Ed. That's some of the best UK Hip-Hop around all on one label. Madness.

[Cpt.Fantastic]

That said, you should all listen to more GLC. Even I like me some GLC.

QFT

Also, Kanye West. KW FTW.

[Luke]

^ YES. ^