THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: livingthelie on 12 Nov 2006, 02:35
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i'm hoping i'm not the only kid out here into hardcore.
but here are some good albums to get into.
Barricade - the weathered
Holy Mountain - enemies
Tragedy - vengeance
Good Clean Fun - saving the scene from the forces of evil
Blood For Blood - outlaw anthems
The Answer - you had your chance
anyone out there wanna contribute?
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I was once at a Biohazard concert. SSomeone asked his girlfriend to marry him from the stage. The band kindly allowed this. Unfortunately, the girl never responded. So, it became sort of sad really soon.
But Biohazard was fun.
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The hardcore I've heard, I love. There's a passion and extremity to the music that I can identify with. Black Flag, for example. Their first album is practically aural mush, but the staggering emotion to it blows me away. Plus I love 'Six Pack.'
I also quite like some post-hardcore. I adore Refused's last album.
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oh, yeah, i love post-hardcore. planes mistaken for stars ranks as one of my all time favorite bands. and refused's last album rocks my socks.
biohazard is good stuff, but they have some shady members (i.e. their bassist having a sideline as a porn star). but, whatever makes them happy, right?
tommy, if you liked minor threat, maybe you should check out trial. their ep "are these our lives" while not a direct homage to those early hardcore bands, is still very obviously influenced by them. real good stuff.
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er...yes and no, i suppose. you see, all those bands are definately INFLUENCED by hardcore. but their sound is a little too different to really be considered pure hardcore.
ok, so yeah, that made me sound like a total snob, i know, but bear with me.
converge, who are awesome, don't consider themselves hardcore. i remember reading an interview with them in which jacob bannon described them in some incredibly pretentious way (i believe it was "emotional noisecore") and i just kinda laughed. cuz in the end, they're a convergence of sound and philosophy that attracts hardcore, metal, and indie rock kids alike. they are, in effect, "post-hardcore" (a similarly pretentious monikor, but better than nothing, eh?)
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are you from the northwest?
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Hardcore is a genre I have some of the most difficulties with. I like Black Flag, Circle Jerks, some Discharge and The Germs. The closest new music to harcore on my "like" list would be The Blood Brothers and Alexisonfire. I used to listen to PMFS a few years ago, not much anymore.
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Man, Alexisonfire's new album was disappointing.
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No, their second albums was disappointing. The first albums had such a hard sound and the second was so watered down. I was not expecting anything for this one.
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I will chime in with my own twopence here...
I'm not a fan so much of the traditional, straight hardcore...don't much care for the old 80's stuff - I consider Henry Rollins to be one of my literary heroes, but I never cared much for the music - but I do like a lot of music that gets lumped in with hardcore.
I can't possibly gush enough over bands like American Nightmare/Give Up The Ghost, The Hope Conspiracy, or Modern Life Is War. I guess these guys are pretty standard hardcore.
Converge is my favorite band hands down, but I don't really consider them hardcore; I actually just call them punk rock, which gets me in trouble with a lot of punk purists, but I figure a band that for 15 years has done their own thing their own way, and is still going on as hard and as arasive as ever is punk rock to me. Most of what I like is more hardcore influenced, rather than being purely hardcore - Orchid, Pg. 99, City Of Caterpillar, just about every band that has put out music on Level Plane records...most of what is released on Deathwish also greatly appeals to me.
I guess to me, the term "hardcore" in music is interchangeable with "punk rock" and I don't use either one in their strictly traditional sense; they both describe music that I find to be deeply passionate and played with a great deal of heart. A lot of what falls into the hardcore genre just feels too cut-and-paste, riff-by-numbers, and scene obsessed. There's a great deal of insincerety from what I have witnessed, so I try to distance myself from the label itself, and just listen to what moves me.
I'm just doing what I can to prove all the people who told me that "when you grow up, you'll grow out of this yelling screaming noisy music" wrong...
Edit: Tommy, I don't know why this is, but it just seems a little strange to me that you used to listen to Converge...cool and all, but hard to picture.
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yeah, pretty much what i believe. the entire term "hardcore" can and is overused. but i still use it for lack of a better label (and please don't anyone chime in with some tired 'why do you need to label yourself' comment. i don't care) and will continue to label myself in that way. btw, i LOVE modern life is war, and hope conspiracy. and converge continue to be just fucking fantastic.
and crotch rot, yeah, i live in victoria, bc, canada. about as northwest as you can get without being in the yukon.
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i've been in a love-hate relationship with hardcore for a while now, because while i simply cannot deny my love for so many hardcore bands (admittedly hailing from new england moreso than the northwest) i fucking LOATHE the scene that comes with it. the northwest scene generally bores me, and while there could be a few good bands creeping out once in a while, they get so overexposed to me that when i hear what the bass player had for dinner last night from 14 people that dont even know him, i just cant bring myself to go to their shows or listen to their music.
I also hate northwest hardcore because i think FSU is a complete joke and everytime a friend of mine brings them up I try to remind them that FSU is a scummy gang that deals coke, and not in fact a bunch of friends who stand united.
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Let's see... I'm a huge fan of Tragedy, From Ashes Rise, Ramallah, Comeback Kid, Modern Life is War, Converge, Shai Hulud and The Bronx. Plus there are plenty of local hardcore bands who I could pimp.
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Hmm to be honest I'm not hugely into Hardcore, Refused is about the only HC band I listen to regularly and I really only listen to "Shape of Punk to Come", that album just seems to click, decent vocals, good lyrics and excellent riffs.
A lot of my friends in Canberra are heaps into hardcore, whenever I visit my parents I'll ususally go to a show with them, a must admit the music is a lot better live then on cd. They are all into Australian shit mainly, stuff like "Embodiment 12:14" "Parkway Drive" and "I Killed the Prom Queen". They've tried to get me into bands like "Thursday", "Ringworm", "Shai Hulud" (probably because of the dune reference :P) and "Most Precious Blood", but I'm not a fan at all.
Some of the 80's "thrashy" stuff like DRI, SOD, MOD and that sort of thing I don't mind, not sure how "hardcore" they are though.
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i've been in a love-hate relationship with hardcore for a while now, because while i simply cannot deny my love for so many hardcore bands (admittedly hailing from new england moreso than the northwest) i fucking LOATHE the scene that comes with it. the northwest scene generally bores me, and while there could be a few good bands creeping out once in a while, they get so overexposed to me that when i hear what the bass player had for dinner last night from 14 people that dont even know him, i just cant bring myself to go to their shows or listen to their music.
I also hate northwest hardcore because i think FSU is a complete joke and everytime a friend of mine brings them up I try to remind them that FSU is a scummy gang that deals coke, and not in fact a bunch of friends who stand united.
...except that FSU was founded in, and still based in, boston. SOOOOO yeah. i guess new england sucks too.
but, your right. generalities aside, there are problems with the hardcore scene. thank god the indie rock scene and the hip hop scene and the punk rock scene are such shining examples of ethics, standards, and openness.
oops, wait, no, they're just as bad.
fact is, any scene youre in is just as bad as you make it. simply standing on the sidelines and doing nothing will not make a scene better. if you really love hardcore, but hate the way kids act, then jump in, put in your two cents, and do something to make a positive difference. otherwise, don't tell me how much my scene sucks. because i'm doing the best i can to make it better, and hearing that from someone kinda makes it harder to do that.
please refer to suicide files song "i hate you" for a more concise version of what i just said.
/rant
p.s. but yeah, FSU sucks. no question of that.
(edited for spelling)
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Dude, we KNOW Rizzo's hardcore...look at his sig!
I forgot to add Ringworm. Didn't really care about that band until I saw them play live with Converge last year.
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Let's see... I'm a huge fan of Tragedy, From Ashes Rise, Ramallah, Comeback Kid, Modern Life is War, Converge, Shai Hulud and The Bronx. Plus there are plenty of local hardcore bands who I could pimp.
pimp, pimp!! i love discovering new bands, thats always awesome.
oh, and i LOVE tragedy, and ramallah.
and scytale, that's too bad that you can't get into most precious blood. they're a fantastic band (at least in my opinion). but, the fact that you gave them a listen and tried them out is pretty awesome. not a lot of people give hardcore even that much of a chance.
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What's too bad is that I grew into hardcore (aside from finding refused on 120 minutes, staying up "late" freshman year) with the hardcore scene that is now generally regarded as ingenuine, cheap and fake.
The "metalcore" scene of the midwest with bands like End This Day and Dead to Fall and most notably 7 Angels 7 Plagues was one of the most amazing things to see grow, and is probably the only "scene" I'll ever truly feel attached to. Getting to watch these types of bands in shithole basements where most of the audiance dancing had to worry they'd slam their head on the 7 foot high, dilapidated cieling, while these kids did what they loved and did it with the true passion of any DIY scene will always inspire me.
Now I see tons of bands that are just capitolizing on the fact that this has become a huge trend in heavy music (basically no better than numetal at this point), and what's almost worse is hearing people who know nothing about what the begining was like deride it as shit music through and through.
I don't really care that those types of bands aren't "hardcore" in the classic sense of Bad Brains or Nation of Ulysses or whatever. I'll always associate the movement I experienced with the overall essence of the hardcore/punk DIY ethic and emotion.
oh, and to add for favorite albums (again, not technically "hardcore", but all of these bands drew from hardcore roots, etc blah blah blah):
Coma Eternal- The Nuance Formula
End This Day- Sleeping Beneather the Ashes of Creation
Dead to Fall- 2002 5 Song Untilted demo
7 Angels 7 Plagues- Jhazmyne's Lullabye
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Dude, we KNOW Rizzo's hardcore...look at his sig!
Haha, Cthulhucore for life. I'd forgotten about my sig.
Pimping you say?
The Wrongmen; Auckland band similar in many ways to Converge but more political and more brutal.
http://www.the-wrongmen.com/
Antagonist; Hamilton metalcore band, getting a bit fruity these days but still pretty decent.
http://www.myspace.com/alwaystheantagonist
Every Man for Himself; Auckland metalcore band, keeping it real, Christian and quite posi but still damn good. Probably the coolest website of any hardcore band, especially the dressups game.
http://www.myspace.com/everymanforhimself
http://www.willworkforfood.co.nz/emfh/
Fever Lake; Auckland, they vary between genuine screamo and hardcore.
http://www.myspace.com/feverlake
Cold by Winter; Auckland, meh, most famous but possibly least original.
http://www.myspace.com/coldbywinternz
Kill Me Quickly; Auckland, very political hardcore, now broken up or so I heard.
http://www.myspace.com/killmequicklynz
Damaged; Wellington, good shit.
http://www.myspace.com/damagednz
Actionman Records; NZ's hardcore label.
http://www.actionmanrecords.com/
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sweet!! i'm gonna check all those bands out. thanks.
and lovesupreme, i feel your pain. metalcore really isn't my thing (although there are a few really good bands out there) but i understand the frustration of watching a once great scene go to shit because of kids getting "too cool" or because of shit talking. sucks, sucks, sucks.
a few great bands to check out from victoria:
tough as nails
http://www.myspace.com/toughasnailshc (http://www.myspace.com/toughasnailshc)
this band has been around a long time, and is fantastic because of it.
AK47
http://www.myspace.com/ak47_hardcore (http://www.myspace.com/ak47_hardcore)
really awesome thrashy hardcore from guys that have been doing this shit for longer than most of us have been alive. they still come to shows, too. rad, rad people.
ice cold
http://www.myspace.com/icefuckingcold
ok, technically, these guys are from vancouver, and TECHNICALLY they're broken up, but man are they good. and really nice guys,too. like, ridiculously nice.
no holding back
http://www.myspace.com/noholdingbackband
the most amazing band in existence, they will cause you to transcend the evolutionary ladder, and come out a new person ok, so it's my band, and we're just ok.
whatever.
so, yeah. there. whoo!
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LIMPWRIST!
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Limpwrist is some fun times...
I LOVE...HARDCORE BOYS...I LOVE BOYS HARDCOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!!
Gots ta love it
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haha. one of the guitarists in my band is gay. he keeps (only half) jokingly trying to convince us to change our name to joe holding jack, and to become a queercore band.
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I like some old school hardcore, and a lot of crossover.
Wouldn't touch metalcore, post-hardcore or deathcore with a ten foot fucking bargepole though, and almost without exception the 'hardcore kids' here in the South of England are the ones responsible for violence and ruining gigs. What I've read about American groups like FSU and salt lake city straight-edgers makes them sound approximately ten times worse. The hardcore/emo (fuck you tommy) scene cabal on the Isle of Wight destroyed everything that I found good in local music within about six months of me getting in to it.
So, meh.
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my problem with statements like that is that it isn't particularly objective, or fair to the rest of the hardcore scene. it would be like saying "all metal kids are just a bunch of drunk assholes who have the intelligence of cold toast". true, i've met LOTS of metal kids like that. but i've also met a shitload of really great, nice, intelligent metal kids that simply love their music, and love their scene.
the fact is, you'll find assholes in pretty much any walk of life. i am by no means saying that the actions of FSU or militant asshole sxe are ok. i won't condone their actions, ever. what i am saying, is please don't paint all of us with the same brush. that's unfair, and frankly untrue.
most hardcore kids i know simply love life, love their family, and love their music. that's it.
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Read the whole sentence. It's quite obvious I'm talking about the emo thing.
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Has Envy been mentioned? I like Envy
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What the fuck? Sorry for wounding you to the very core of your being and expressing my deepest, utmost feelings with a fucking throwaway remark in brackets about the usage of the word 'emo' on a fucking forum on the internet.
I give up.
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so i deserve a 'fuck you' because you used i word i despise?
seriously khar, would it really hurt you to give me an inch occasionally? i really am trying to appreciate your point of view on all matters but it's hard when you aren't prepared to accept any middle ground between us.
He was only casually referring to your militant hate of the term and half-sticking it to you before you went on another rant about it. Chill out bro :-P.
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...BOY I SURE DO LOVE HARDCORE!!!
anyone wanna maybe talk about that?
HUH?!?
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Tommy, I think you have some sort of persecution complex/sense of humour deficiency.
I was talking about hardcore. Do kids nowadays think of Stormtroopers of Death as hardcore at all? Because I was always trying to play them to my mates who said they liked hardcore and/or metalcore and was always getting blank stares in return.
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meh. i always consider SOD in the same vain as pantera style metal. that's just me, though.
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Ok, a lot of bands have been name dropped in this thread. So, can you guys just list a few albums to get me started with hardcore?
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Ok, a lot of bands have been name dropped in this thread. So, can you guys just list a few albums to get me started with hardcore?
Black Flag - Damaged
Refused - The Shape Of Punk To Come
Lucky Nine - True Crown Foundation Songs
That's more or less how I started, and I'm doing just fine...
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if i could, i'd just like to add:
boy sets fire - in chrysalis
snapcase - progression through unlearning
trial - are these our lives?
those are all really good, and pretty easy to get into. plus, boy sets fire does a great cover of "holiday in cambodia" thats still the best i've heard.
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No, their second album was disappointing.
Julia, you're shattering the foundations of my world. Watch Out! was a record well-above par, boasting both an exploratory nature and lyrical maturity. The singles off of the record were postively superb, whereas tracks like "Sharks And Danger" and "Happiness By The Kilowatt" showed off a rather gorgeous understanding of aural texturing. There were admittedly fewer serrated edges to the album but I would rank it as their best to date, easily.
Also everything in the last ten-ish posts would be far easier to avoid if we just used "de-pop," which I'm going to keep saying until everyone fucking does it already.
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Well I love Minor Threat but other than them I never really got into any other hardcore bands. Unless you count Bear vs. Shark as hardcore, or post hardcore or whatever. I love me some BvS.
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oh, bear vs. shark are amazing. but i don't think i'd classify them as anything. they're just too damn weird.
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and crotch rot, yeah, i live in victoria, bc, canada.? about as northwest as you can get without being in the yukon.
yea, im from washington and saw you meantion a bunch of nwhc bands soooooo yea.
did death threat go to canada this weekend?
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if they did, i didn't know about it. i love death threat. i would have been there, for sure.
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Something about hardcore really bugs me, but I'm not sure what it is.
Could be the silly-ass moshpit dancing ("THIS MUSIC ROCKS SO HARD IT MAKES ME WANT TO PUNCH THE FLOOR!!![/B]")
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yes. your right. it's so silly. not nearly as intelligent as say headbanging (which hurts my neck just looking at it). or maybe the "punk rock drunken stumble into the PA". or how about burning down churches...wait, sorry, that was just norway.
how about we accept the fact that everybody's scene's have things in them we don't particularly understand, and probably never will.
honestly, i'm NEVER gonna get the industrial scene.
ever.
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It's not that hard to understand, really. It's just a load of really left wing people pretending to be robot space nazis.
What's the current opinion on the Dead Kennedys. They still hardcore? Because if so they're probably the hardcore band I most like and respect.
Punk's not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don't matter, it's who you know
If the music's gotten boring
It's because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that's left Is just a meaningless fad
Hardcore formulas are dogshit
Change and caring are what's real
Is this a state of mind
Or just another label
The joy and hope of an alternative
Have become its own cliche
A hairstyle's not a lifestyle
Imagine Sid Vicious at 35
Who needs a scene
Scared to love and to feel
Judging everythng
By loud fast rules appeal
Who played last night?
"I don't know, I forgot.
But diving off the stage Was a lot of fun."
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haha. yeah, i had a really good friend once who was super into industrial. like, "looked like a rejected matrix extra" into industrial. he pretty much said the same thing. just kinda goes over my head, really.
and yeah. i'd say dead kennedy's are fully in the realm of hardcore. early hardcore, in the vein of black flag, but definately hardcore.
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If I may add a few album recommendations of my own:
Modern Life Is War - Witness.
American Nightmare (later known as Give Up The Ghost) - Background Music
The Hope Conspiracy - Death Knows Your Name.
Blacklisted - The Beat Goes On
Those are all some straight hardcore albums that really make me happy.
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What's the current opinion on the Dead Kennedys.
The current opinion is I don't like the Dead Kennedys.
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yes.? your right.? it's so silly.? not nearly as intelligent as say headbanging (which hurts my neck just looking at it). or maybe the "punk rock drunken stumble into the PA".? or how about burning down churches...wait, sorry, that was just norway.
You forgot the indie-rocker stand-still-with-your-arms-crossed-and-nod-your-head dance.
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and you forgot the toe-tap! the toe-tap makes that move, jeph. makes it.
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What about at Prog concerts where people bring foldout chairs with them to sit down in the front row and watch...
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I'm not quite sure whether what I like is actually hardcore in the purest form, save for a few classic bands such as Black Flag, Gorilla Biscuits, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys ... are Nation of Ulysses considered hardcore now or not?
For some reason though, bands like Biohazard and Sick of it All don't do it at all for me. Like many other hardcore bands I know, the music is pretty good live (and sometimes painful, for example The Hope Conspiracy) but on CD rather boring. I guess I need more than a couple of breakdowns.
I'm more partial to what hardcore inspired, namely stuff like Botch or Ion Dissonance, noise-influenced hardcore like M?nus, bands like Orchid or Rorschach and especially that spastic hardcore for people with ADD, such as Daughters, The Locust and especially the early 90s San Diego scene.
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Ion Dissonance is amazing. Check out Psyopus.
I pretty much agree with you as well, Spaceman Spiff (great handle, by the way). I love hardcore in nearly all it's forms, but I prefer the things that came from the original hardcore movements.
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What about at Prog concerts where people bring foldout chairs with them to sit down in the front row and watch...
People actually do this?
I heard about some people doing this when Isis played here a few months ago, but I thought I was being wound up.
More Kylesa love on this forum please.
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Ion Dissonance is amazing.
i disagree, for the following reason:
motherfuckers stole my bed.
allow me to explain:
i saw them a while back with embrace today. they seemed to be ok, and then they did the usual hardcore "hey, we need a place to stay thing". my roommate at the time, who was an incredibly nice girl, went up and offered our house. no prob right?
accept, what do i find upon entering my humble abode? goddamn french canadians in my bed.
motherfuckers.
uh, but other than that. yeah, ion dissonance is good. and i saw kylesa WAY WAY back in the day, and they were pretty fucking good, too.
(edited for being an insufferable prick)
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You forgot the indie-rocker stand-still-with-your-arms-crossed-and-nod-your-head dance.
This is actually the most common dance in hardcore too. Hardcore's basically indie rock with a DIY obsession and more chug.
For me, I make no distinction between bands like Heroin, Man Is The Bastard, Converge, Discordance Axis etc and bands like Minor Threat. It's all just hardcore, it's just that hardcore matured like a good cheese and developed a few subgenres.
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Ion Dissonance is amazing.? Check out Psyopus.
I pretty much agree with you as well, Spaceman Spiff (great handle, by the way).? I love hardcore in nearly all it's forms, but I prefer the things that came from the original hardcore movements.
Yeah, I know Psyopus. Their guitar player is disturbingly good... Also: Thanks.
And I forgot the entire Bremen hardcore scene. Gotta love me some Acme, Systral or M?rser.
And Livingthelie: You should have just joined them. ... Of course they have those weird links to hardcore porn on their website so I don't know what would have happened, but still.
Also, have you ever whored around your band? If so, I missed it, so: Please do.
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It's all about Stick To Your Guns.
But I absolutely love those old 80's hardcore bands that have all been mentioned. Some tough guy hardcore (Ramallah, Death Before Dishonor, etc) is ok. Set Your Goals is pretty neat for a posi pop-punk band with hardcore influences.
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i absolutely love set your goals. but then, i'm a huge geek for pop punk, especially lifetime and jawbreaker. i'm actually going in to get a jawbreaker themed chest piece on dec. 3rd.
and as for my band:
here you go (http://www.myspace.com/noholdingbackband)
you'll have to excuse the terrible recording quality. can't really complain since it was free out of some dudes bedroom, but still...ouch. were gonna go into the studio soon, and put out a real damn album. just need to write a few more songs...
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Lifetime is amazing. Speaking of which, I kind of consider Save The Day's first CD (Can't Slow Down) to be at least melodic hardcore.
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some bands worth checking out would be:
earth crisis
avail
spazz
infest
tear it up
strife
ignite
fucked up
early screeching weasel-boogada x 3 or self titled
vitamin x
artimus pyle
ds 13
and dead kennedys are fucking awesome and definitaly were one of the early hardcore bands.
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i saw them a while back with embrace today.
That tour was the first time I ever saw them as well. I can't stand embrace today, though... I don't really remember why I was even at that show...
When you started the story, I imagined them physically removing your bed from your house. That would have been quite a feat for a touring band.
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Austin, you should check out these guys:
www.myspace.com/oncenothing
My band played with them once, some friends of ours went on tour with them...they're really great guys. More metal than hardcore, but really good.
Also, are any of you guys (especially you UK folk) familiar with Beecher? I keep forgetting how much I really like them, and then I listen to them and go "oh yeah...they fucking rock"
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some bands worth checking out would be:
earth crisis
avail
spazz
infest
tear it up
strife
ignite
fucked up
early screeching weasel-boogada x 3 or self titled
vitamin x
artimus pyle
ds 13
and dead kennedys are fucking awesome and definitaly were one of the early hardcore bands.
i whole heartedly agree with this entire list.
and nekoo, saves the day is just awesome. period. do not attempt to contain their awesomness within some pathetic "genre" it will only burst out and poke you in the eye.
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Also, are any of you guys (especially you UK folk) familiar with Beecher?? I keep forgetting how much I really like them, and then I listen to them and go "oh yeah...they fucking rock"
Yeah, I've seen Beecher a bunch of times. I'm afraid I'm not a fan though, they're just sound too metalcore-by-numbers for me. Stand was always where it was at for UK metalcore, and they had the always excellent talking in a Grimsby accent sections like Imbalance did. Sadly, all the best UKHC bands have split, which is a pity since we had some of the best bands in the world just after the turn of the century.
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yes.? your right.? it's so silly.? not nearly as intelligent as say headbanging (which hurts my neck just looking at it). or maybe the "punk rock drunken stumble into the PA".? or how about burning down churches...wait, sorry, that was just norway.
You forgot the indie-rocker stand-still-with-your-arms-crossed-and-nod-your-head dance.
i did that in the front row while watching kaiser cheifs...except with out nodding my head...they are possibly the worst band i have ever seen in my life, the only reason i've heard their music is they were playing support for foo fighters
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I think some record lable tried to bring DEP to play here after Miss Machine came out, DEP joked about it in an interview if I'm not mistaken. I still want to see them live.
Anyway, thanks for the recommendations guys, I would start downloading but my Soulseek client crahsed and I need to try and make it work again.
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DEP were one of the least enjoyable live experiences I've ever had, and I've seen Bullet For My Valentine.
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I like DEP, but sometimes they still seem to much "tech. for the sake fo being tech." I will say that the one time I saw them, between the PAtton EP and Miss Machine, they were really intense and an enjoyable show, but their music sometimes just seems to lack passion. I'm sure I'll turn this into a dead horse when talking about music, but really playing with passion is what sells me on a band. The reason I go apeshit for Converge as much as I do is because every time I've ever seen them, they look like they're all trying to excorcise all of their own demons through their music, and it comes out through every song. I connect with that so much more than I do with some band that's just playing "sick brutal breakdowns!!!" for a sweet m0sh...
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i used to love DEP. i saw them years ago, back when dimitri minikakis was still singing for them, and they had so much passion. then a few years later, when dimitri left, and sean ingram from coalesce stepped in for one show. also, disturbingly good. then...nothing for a long time. then shortly after miss machine, i went and saw them again...and suddenly they sucked. like, hardcore sucked. it still makes me sad. still, everything up to and including the patton ep is gooooooood stuff. especially under the running board. jesus that was brutal.
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Yes. For the love of all that is holy, you should at least punch him. Nora is awesome, but grindcore they are NOT!!!
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My friend called Nora grindcore last night. Should I kick him in the throat?
From the songs I'm listening to on the trustkill site, I would classify them as godawful. And definatly not grindcore in the least, at all. Throat kicking is a minimum.
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please. i seem to remember a "friend" of mine calling slipknot grindcore once...
...we don't talk anymore.
and agreed that nora sucks. sorry.
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There is absolutely nothing special about Nora. Nothing. And yet I still love them...they're just...fun, I guess?
Ferret Records is starting to make me feel like an old man though...as in, I look back on their roster from a few years ago compared with who they sign anymore and go "Yeah, those were the days back then..."
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oh, jesus, yeah. i <3 clifton.
although, i've not really kept up with ferret for a while. who are they signing up now?
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They took a page from Trustkill's playbook, and started signing a bunch of extremely mediocre "emo"* bands...although not to the extent that Trustkill did. Right now, with a few exceptions, Ferret is predominately godawful mall-metalcore, or makeup artists.
*By use of the term "emo" I am referring to the style of ear-butchery commonly referred to around these parts as de-pop; I acknowledge the fact that the word "emo" is ridiculous, and wish to make it known that while I am using it's commonly accepted syntax in the parlance of our current age, there is no need to educate me with a link to Tommy's Quiki entry. Thank you, and good day!
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BOOOO. what happened to the joy of twelve tribes? or vlad?
however, i will always hate ferret, just a little bit, for signing misery signals. fuck.
EDIT: just went and looked at their website. boys night out? remembering never? ZAO?
dear ferret music,
we're fighting.
love, austin
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Unless I misunderstood your post, I'm pretty sure all three of those bands have been on Ferret forever. BNO has, at least (by forever, I mean,like, 3 or 4 years)
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I always have and always will love Zao...they're the band that got me into metal and hardcore in the first place, and nothing you can say will ever change that. Remembering Never, on the other hand, is one of those bands that really, REALLY is embarassing to me, being straight edge; they write that kind of mindless, knuckledragging, neanderthalish preaching, shoving down your throat bullshit that I've always hated...
I just think this whole scene has started to get so big, it won't be long before it starts to collapse under its own weight
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I HATE the fucking scene. the whole express jeans thing. the whole black nails and x's on the hands thing. the penny-picking dances. the straight-edgeness. (Nothing wrong with straight-edgeness, but don't push your views onto the other people). That being said, I do like Cryptic Slaughter (one of the first bands to really start Death Metal, albeit unintentionally), and Radiation 4. A little bit of Saetia, and Corrosion of Conformity. Everything else I listen to hardcore-wise is too poppy for me to want to admit.
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the whole express jeans thing. the whole black nails...
what in god's name are you talking about?
and by that I mean, you only know people who suck a lot. That isn't "the" "scene"
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It sounds reasonably accurate. 95% of hardcore kids I've ever met have been complete douches. Violent, image obsessed, elitist douches. Not to say the other 5% weren't really great guys but come on. If that isn't "the" "scene" then what is "the" "scene", seeing as how the wankers are in greater evidence.
(Okay, to be fair, 95% of everyone isn't worth the time of day, but come on...)
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Unfortunately, he is pretty much spot on as far as the scene goes...everything Dimmukane listed there is fairly predominant at almost any hardcore show you go to.
Back in September, I went to see Modern Life Is War with Strike Anywhere and Ignite...the vast majority of the crowd was this group of dirty punk kids, all of them with big ass smiles on their faces the whole time that bands were playing. Everyone was there having a good time, and not afriad to show it. It's one of the best shows overall that I've been to.
On the other hand, in August I went to see Converge playing an off-date show with some smaller hardcore and grindcore bands. The whole time, everyone was busy comparing "I'm more hardcore than you" points, and making anyone who didn't fit their image feel that they had no right even being withing line of sight of the venue.
It's happened to other styles of music, and other scenes - hardcore (and especially metalcore) has started to gain popularity among the masses, and it's turned into a fucking fashion show...kind of ironic, since a lot of the bands that are idolized in this genre scream out against that very thing.
Every scene has its fair share of shitheads...we'e covered that already. Khar's estimation is as right as it gets, 95% of "my" scene sucks, but probably so does 95% of his. So does 95% of the indie scene, I could go on and on. On the upside, the scenes themselves have provided Jeph with plenty of mockery potential in past AND future comics here...so I guess we should at least enjoy that...
Okay, end tangent. I'll jump down off my soapbox, let someone else have a turn. Thanks for playing.
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I'd agree, but then I remember how well I get on with pretty much every metalhead I meet.
I suppose the distinction is when I say metalhead, I mean 'true' metalheads, which is probably, come to think of it, 5% of the people an outsider might classify as such. I suppose I'm mainly just bitter I've never had the chance to be involved in any sort of scene which I actually think is worth a damn.
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I'm lucky to know as many "true" (as in, they've listened to a fair amount more than Trivium and Arch Enemy, etc.) metalheads as I do. Like, 4. 3 of them are in the same band, the other one is this crazy kid who's all over the place. I do know one person who's the opposite, but he's led what I guess you could call a hardcore life, so I let it go when he says something like Bullet For My Valentine being black metal.
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I went to a local hardcore show with a friend and the following happened:
We were in Zaxby's getting something to eat, and these two dudes come in. They are both wearing screen-printed button down shirts, obscenely tight vests, and nut hugging jeans and have their nails painted. It's pretty obvious they're going to the show. We got there, and they were pretty easy to find (it was a tiny venue). Fifteen minutes later, I saw them make their way to the back and leave. Later that night we went to IHOP and they were there with some other people. One of these people asks them if they went to the show, and the dude's all like "oh yeah it was fucking fantastic!."
I recognize that this in no way represents the entire hardcore scene or could be used to paint all hardcore fans the same color, but shit like that would not happen if hardcore weren't becoming a "just peel the wrapper and enjoy" identity for lost, self-concious teenagers. The genre is producing some decent bands right now, but the vast majority aren't going to leave a single fingerprint on musical history and you won't care about them in ten years.
I definitely support those bands that are pushing the whole thing forward and seeing what it's capable of producing, that I can respect. On that note, maybe somebody following this thread can suggest some good modern hardcore/post-hardcore that will change my perception of the genre.
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Check out the album "Death Knows Your Name" by The Hope Conspiracy...I really can't recommend this band strongly enough.
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I think I mentioned Radiation 4. They've only got one album out, it's a sort of mesh between tech death and hardcore. Actually, I think they're no longer together. The album should be somewhere on slsk though.
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I went to a local hardcore show with a friend and the following happened:
We were in Zaxby's getting something to eat, and these two dudes come in. They are both wearing screen-printed button down shirts, obscenely tight vests, and nut hugging jeans and have their nails painted. It's pretty obvious they're going to the show. We got there, and they were pretty easy to find (it was a tiny venue). Fifteen minutes later, I saw them make their way to the back and leave. Later that night we went to IHOP and they were there with some other people. One of these people asks them if they went to the show, and the dude's all like "oh yeah it was fucking fantastic!."
I recognize that this in no way represents the entire hardcore scene or could be used to paint all hardcore fans the same color, but shit like that would not happen if hardcore weren't becoming a "just peel the wrapper and enjoy" identity for lost, self-concious teenagers. The genre is producing some decent bands right now, but the vast majority aren't going to leave a single fingerprint on musical history and you won't care about them in ten years.
I definitely support those bands that are pushing the whole thing forward and seeing what it's capable of producing, that I can respect. On that note, maybe somebody following this thread can suggest some good modern hardcore/post-hardcore that will change my perception of the genre.
yeah, this is pretty much the problem (as far as i see it) with most "scenes" in general. my scene (victoria, bc) tends to not have that, but then were just to damn small. we tend to push kids like that out. the bigger scenes, though, have that "95%, 5%" ratio that khar and dimmukane were talking about. which, as pointed out earlier, is pretty much what you find in any scene. like khar said, most of the hardcore kids i know and meet, i get along with fantastically...which is completely overshadowed by the fact that i tend not to talk to/hang out with asshole hardcore kids. so my friends and i make up the 5%. which sucks. bah. this can go on forever. lets just get to the point. people blow. doesn't matter what kind of music or fashion youre into. they just suck.
and as for good modern hardcore:
suicide file
modern life is war
most precious blood
where eagles dare
tragedy
the answer
vanguard
champion
betrayed
the list goes on. try those guys out for starters. they're the "fuck you and your elitist bullshit" type hardcore.
p.s. i had no idea BNO were on ferret music. of course, i tend to ignore them/want to kill them. so i might have just repressed the whole thing. and remembering never can suck a fat dick. sierously. i'm saying that as someone who's not only vegan, but straightedge. fuck you guys. you make my life harder to live.
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BNO is pretty good fun, but they wouldn't really be a hardcore band if I had to classify them in any way.
As far as the black nail shit goes, I still don't consider that part of the "hardcore" "scene" probably in the same way Tommy doesn't consider the new wave of 'emo' "emo". Even if that's what everyone is doing and its maybe recognized as the trend, I still think it's bullshit propegated by teen-bopper hardcore/metalcore kids that don't actually know anything and just on the whole suck at life.
...or we can just relate it to the 95% to 5% deal that 101010101100101 brought up, which I supoose is just as valid.
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and as for good modern hardcore:
suicide file
modern life is war
most precious blood
where eagles dare
tragedy
the answer
vanguard
champion
betrayed
Admittedly I haven't heard a couple of these bands but to me this list sums up the problem with hardcore these days, that things are becoming tired and repetitive. Even Tragedy, the one band there that I actually like, don't break any new ground. I can't think of a single current band that really is pushing things forward. There are a few that I love (La Quiete, Das Oath, Submission Hold, The Dauntless Elite etc) but they're either just doing long-established styles extremely well or they made their innovations some time back. There's nothing wrong with any individual band doing that, but just a few years ago I could have reeled off a fair few names that were pushing the envelope. Maybe not massively, but there was something definitely new to their sounds. Now I can't think of one, and a lot of the people who were in those innovative bands aren't playing hardcore anymore.
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hm. you know an argument for that can be made. however, and i may be blasted to hell by the almighty music gods for saying this, but i really don't care if a band pushes the envelope or not. take most precious blood. i love them. they are great (in my opinion). are they anything new? nope. are they damn good, and fun to listen to? yes. do they make me happy when i listen to them? yes. do they do what they do, because they love it, and not because they wanna be rich and famous? yup. then who cares if they're innovative? don't get me wrong, innovative bands are necessary for any genre to survive. however, i don't use that as my only criteria. honestly, as long i love to hear what a band is making, i'll listen to them. in the end, i love what i love. no questions, no caveats.
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I totally agree (well, except about Most Precious Blood being good). I don't care if any individual band is innovative or not, but without some that are hardcore will stagnate and get very boring, and I'm worried that this is already happening.
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oh for sure (except that MPB are, in fact, amazing). the problem is, whenever a hardcore band does something different, they're labeled "post-hardcore" or something equally pretentious, and we lose them to tragic haircuts and tight jeans. i give you the blood brothers, as an example.
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for the longest time, as i guess i am out of the loop with newish bands, i thought when everyone was talking about the blood brothers they were talking about the victory band blood for blood. bit of a mix up haha.
but what is post hardcore? is that like rival schools? they had someone from gorilla biscuits right?
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i guess. i'm not sure, honestly. my view of post hardcore has always been the same as the supreme courts view of pornography. i can't define it, but i know it when i hear it.
and mixing up blood for blood and the blood brothers is pretty funny. could you imagine if blood brothers fans made the same mistake, and went to the wrong show?
oh, those poor bastards....
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haha ok well i'm gonna go with rival schools then? ?:-P
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Post-hardcore is supposed to be a catchall term for anyone who takes the basic aesthetic or cultural ideology of hardcore and pushes it in an artsier or more musically diverse direction. Blood Brothers, for example, borrow a lot from hardcore but use two dedicated vocalists at different pitches, extremely diverse instrumentation and routinely crib from odd sources. It's different enough from the hardcore template to qualify.
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oh for sure (except that MPB are, in fact, amazing).? the problem is, whenever a hardcore band does something different, they're labeled "post-hardcore" or something equally pretentious, and we lose them to tragic haircuts and tight jeans.? i give you the blood brothers, as an example.?
That is a depressing fact, and people often seem very eager to claim something has moved beyond hardcore when in reality it's done no such thing. It doesn't always happen though. Canvas were always thought of as a hardcore band, and so were Orchid.
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Yeah, I think it's pretty subjective.
I would consider Converge posthardcore because their sound has moved beyond hardcore and their lyrics tend to be more emotional than your average hardcore band. I also include Modern Life Is War (probably unfairly) and Circle Takes the Square (more fairly termed screamo).
Then again most genres are quite subjective.
Bands like MLIW are doing amazing things with hardcore and it's not necessarily "postifying" it.
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I don't know a whole lot about hardcore, but I saw Sick of It All open for the Dropkick Murphys. They were alright, and really fucking loud. Like, the Dropkick Murphys sounded like mice after them.
I also like Refused, and The Fall of Troy *runs, hands over head*
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obviously anyone who knows anything likes Refused.
The Fall of Troy have some pretty great qualities. Their guitarist is ridiculously skilled, and for being pretty poppy, they have some good tunes.
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Post-hardcore is....
FUGAZI!
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obviously anyone who knows anything likes Refused.
The Fall of Troy have some pretty great qualities. Their guitarist is ridiculously skilled, and for being pretty poppy, they have some good tunes.
While I hate the vocal style, I love their constant changing of time signatures, and cool beats. In short, I like the band for their technical qualities.
Now, Refused, I just like because they're awesome.
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I can't believe I never mentioned Kid Dynamite nor Paint it Black in this thread.
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Yeah, I think it's pretty subjective.
I would consider Converge posthardcore because their sound has moved beyond hardcore and their lyrics tend to be more emotional than your average hardcore band. I also include Modern Life Is War (probably unfairly) and Circle Takes the Square (more fairly termed screamo).
Then again most genres are quite subjective.
Bands like MLIW are doing amazing things with hardcore and it's not necessarily "postifying" it.
Circle Takes The Square! Now that's a hardcore band doing something new and exciting. Thanks, you have succeeded in proving me wrong that my beloved core is becoming moribund. They really need to do a new record though.
I see what you mean about Converge, particularly on the last couple of records, but what about tracks like Homewrecker or going back Buried But Breathing? They're pretty traditional hardcore, so I always think of them as widening the scope of the genre rather than moving beyond it (rather like CTTS).
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I love Cursive! I was going to see them recently, but I had to cancel those plans because of like, papers being due and that garbage.
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Every scene has its fair share of shitheads...we'e covered that already.? Khar's estimation is as right as it gets, 95% of "my" scene sucks, but probably so does 95% of his.? So does 95% of the indie scene, I could go on and on.
I guess the crucial difference for me is that the cute girls aren't bizarrely attracted to the 95% of guys in the metal scene or the indie scene.
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Circle Takes The Square! Now that's a hardcore band doing something new and exciting.
Using big words? :P
Sorry, I do quite like them, but in saying that I haven't put the cd on in a year or more. I saw them play in edinburgh once, it was the only time I ever saw people from my town travel to a show. They were all wobbling about with one finger in the air (the audience, not CTTS). T'was a bit of a strange experience
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What about at Prog concerts where people bring foldout chairs with them to sit down in the front row and watch...
More Kylesa love on this forum please.
YES. kylesa IS love. i need to see them.
NEED.
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Circle Takes The Square! Now that's a hardcore band doing something new and exciting.
Using big words?? :P
Sorry, I do quite like them, but in saying that I haven't put the cd on in a year or more. I saw them play in edinburgh once, it was the only time I ever saw people from my town travel to a show. They were all wobbling about with one finger in the air (the audience, not CTTS). T'was a bit of a strange experience
Yeah, the emo kids do do that. I must confess there have been times when I've done it myself, even though I do know it looks pretty daft. Then again, what dancing doesn't?
Anyway, CTTS. I wasn't thinking of the use of big words, no. After all, Bad Religion did that in their own repetitive artless way. It's the way As The Roots Undo is very much a single piece of work instead of a bunch of songs put together, and the structures they use within it. That's a bad way of putting it but I've never been terribly good at writing about music. All I can say is that when I first heard that record I was a little bored with hardcore in general, and it reaffirmed my faith that people could do new and interesting things within the genre.