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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: hannahsaurusrex on 15 Nov 2010, 18:03

Title: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 15 Nov 2010, 18:03
I'm interested in what all of you who find Dora so abhorrent or even just don't think she's quite right, would attribute to Marten's ideal partner.

It doesn't have to be a character already created, and I'm not really expecting anything with Jephlike-depth, I'm just curious as to what kind of person you would like to see Marten with.

Me, I personally like Dora a lot, but I would like her better if she played bass.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: MarkCorrigan on 15 Nov 2010, 18:05
I used to like her. I can get a bit insecure at times (much like the Grand Canyon is a little deep) but recently she seems to be going totally off her rocker. I'm not sure what I would consider the perfect girlfriend for Marten, but honestly, I'd say Dora IF she got some help and stopped acting like a child.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Shadic on 15 Nov 2010, 18:41
Marten really isn't a picky guy regarding who he could be in a relationship with. He's got one of those personalities where he's relatively compatible with just about anybody who would be willing to date him. (Not that they'd all turn WELL, mind you.)

Faye has issues, but the kind of relationship-sabotaging issues that Dora has aren't something Faye has exhibited. Marten and Penelope would also work in a sandbox world where you removed both of their histories with Wil and Dora. Hanners has crippling social issues in terms of... Touching. Or dating. But assuming she was magically a character without those problems, I guess she'd work as well.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Soluzar on 15 Nov 2010, 18:57
Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: tughluq on 15 Nov 2010, 19:25
Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.

If he's like many people, he's attracted to hot women. Being attracted to hot person A doesn't mean someone can't be attracted to hot person B even if they look nothing alike.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: TheMusicalVito on 15 Nov 2010, 19:27
Initially I liked the idea of Hanners and Marten, but I don't think I can see that happening now. I do want to see Hanners end up with somebody badass though.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: IanClark on 15 Nov 2010, 19:30
Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.

I'm a full-on chubby chaser myself (if my post in the discussion thread a few days ago didn't already give it away), and I usually go for women a lot bigger than Faye. Doesn't mean I don't find girls with Dora's body type attractive. I think most people have more than one body type they find attractive.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Soluzar on 15 Nov 2010, 19:31
Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.

If he's like many people, he's attracted to hot women. Being attracted to hot person A doesn't mean someone can't be attracted to hot person B even if they look nothing alike.
Possibly true. Part of the reason why I'm so opposed to the Marten/Dora pairing though is because regardless of any changes in artstyle, she has never once seemed to me to represent a woman who is even remotely hot. She isn't ugly or anything like that, she just wouldn't get a second glance from me. Maybe I just can't see past that prejudice.

Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.

I'm a full-on chubby chaser myself (if my post in the discussion thread a few days ago didn't already give it away), and I usually go for women a lot bigger than Faye. Doesn't mean I don't find girls with Dora's body type attractive. I think most people have more than one body type they find attractive.
I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done. I mean, I can look at someone who doesn't fit and think "Ohh yeah, she's kinda hot", but at the same time... no way would I want to get with her.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: raoullefere on 15 Nov 2010, 20:01
Marten seems to be attracted to strong women, or at least women who seem strong. That's something Faye and Dora have in common—both seem like assertive, confident types until you dig just a little below the surface, at which point all hell breaks loose because something's very very wrong inside. I wonder if the girl Marten followed East is/was similar.

And why do I say that?: Because Veronica is also a strong woman, only, unlike Dora and Faye, a real one. It's fairly natural for Marten to look for that in the women he dates. I wonder if Dora and Marten really are quits, if how it went down in any way qualifies Dora for the Bosch treatment?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: IanClark on 15 Nov 2010, 20:10
Someone he's actually attracted to would be nice.

I said it in the weekly thread already, but I pretty much think Marten started dating Dora because she asked him to, and because it got him some sex. I don't think there's much physical attraction or anything deeper there. She just doesn't seem his type. If he's attracted to Faye, then presumably he likes curvy women.

I'm a full-on chubby chaser myself (if my post in the discussion thread a few days ago didn't already give it away), and I usually go for women a lot bigger than Faye. Doesn't mean I don't find girls with Dora's body type attractive. I think most people have more than one body type they find attractive.
I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done. I mean, I can look at someone who doesn't fit and think "Ohh yeah, she's kinda hot", but at the same time... no way would I want to get with her.

I've found that a lot of what I find attractive I didn't think I would until I dated someone with those characteristics. I used to think I preferred darker women until I dated a woman who was extremely pale. Now it's just not an issue for me.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 15 Nov 2010, 20:32
Somebody with some push to her, who could break him out of his rut.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Nov 2010, 20:35
Marten seems to be attracted to strong women, or at least women who seem strong. That's something Faye and Dora have in common—both seem like assertive, confident types until you dig just a little below the surface, at which point all hell breaks loose because something's very very wrong inside. I wonder if the girl Marten followed East is/was similar.

And why do I say that?: Because Veronica is also a strong woman, only, unlike Dora and Faye, a real one. It's fairly natural for Marten to look for that in the women he dates. I wonder if Dora and Marten really are quits, if how it went down in any way qualifies Dora for the Bosch treatment?

I would PAY JEPH to go this way in the arc.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: sirisaacnuton on 15 Nov 2010, 21:23
Hannelore. 

Seriously.  Would love to see that neurotic match up.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Arky on 16 Nov 2010, 01:45
Hannelore. 

Seriously.  Would love to see that neurotic match up.

I think no-envy-issues Dora and Marten would work best of all.  Whether it can happen remains to be seen.  He needs someone decisive (to counter his passivity but also supportive (so he can get what he wants, as well as supporting her).  Dora provides the first without the second at the moment.  Faye could provide both and I don't think he's completely over her, but she's over HIM.  He's not right for Faye, he was to Faye what Angus was to Marigold.  Hanners provides the second without the first but their dynamic actually makes Marten into the take-charge partner to her submissive part(in chemistry terms, an induced bond) so it can work for a while but probably not forever as Hanners gains confidence and needs more than Captain Starter Boyfriend  :)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 16 Nov 2010, 03:24
To be honest after a while of looking at Dora and possibly being a fool by over-analyzing her character...she doesn't flow too well with Marten.  Really though i find Marten has too many parallels to my own life so perhaps that colors my view.  But to be a bit more descriptive; it's not her lack of confidence in herself that irks me.  It's that she does-...well lets suffice to say it i guess she's a bit too real.  She's not entirely broken, which is a major point in her favor, yet the parts that are her weaknesses, they're too blatant.  Lack of self-confidence is a minor issue for most, and even when it's a major issue, when one has as much success and as caring friends as Dora does, usually one gathers the mental will to start fighting back. And if one cannot, usually they look for tools to assist them.

As far as has been seen, Dora has done none of this.  She lashes out instantly at Marten for the slightest perceived detection, and then refuses to comprehend a situation like the latest comic shows.  On top of which, this has happened multiple times previous, and only the latest time did someone step in and hand her her ass.  But even that didn't seem to hold.  Whether it is the fault of her surroundings, or the fault of herself, she believes that for her, an apology should be enough to fix a situation if she's apologizing, but she expects others to bend over backwards if they do something that upsets her.  This, combined with the confidence issues, causes her to create a self-fulfilling prophecy in making herself alone.  She doesn't think she's worth it, is shocked when someone else does, and so badly desires for nothing to separate her from that person, she lashes out the second she detects something that could.  And once that happens, she goes into the mindset "i knew it wouldn't work, it never does and never will" which then "tricks" herself into feeling justified once that person leaves because of her own actions.  it's a common mentality trait i've seen in multiple people, mostly women unfortunately, and i guess it irks me slightly to see it here as well.

Haha, you could say i like my fantasy stories to stay fantasy, you know?  But that said, while Faye, and even Hannelore have their problems mentally, those two have had enough self-will and internal strength (and in Faye's case, a bit of external) to start chipping away at their problems.  Dora, whom has enough external that logically should trigger an internal shift, doesn't.  And thus far, nobody has seen fit to push, until Faye stepped in, but even then, just like i predicted to a friend of mine, the pattern started again: she was easily forgiven, her fears spiked up again, she settled back into her routine, pushing away what came before, and nobody kept the issue in circulation until it was no longer relevant.  Today's issue further demonstrates the cycle by showing that upon mention of the issue, due to it happening during a current conflict, it did nothing to cow her and in fact did the opposite.

With all that analysis done, it's my strong belief due to the information shown, that Dora should not be with anyone until such a time as she has at least begun to gain control over this problem.  As seen, Marten is patient, but...oddly like myself, he is most willing to help those who desire to help themselves.  the words "I'm sick of your apologies" do not translate as Dora did to "i dont want you around anymore" but rather "i dont want you to have to apologize anymore".

In conclusion (geez what was this a bloody report?), my opinion is that comparing character traits and personalities with Marten's, at this point Dora is the most "messed up" of the characters.  That said, she is not a compatible match for anyone, let alone Marten.  Faye and Hannelore are both "messed up" as well, but both have taken steps to try to chip away at the root, thus are much better candidates, though Hannelore's unique mentality and issues wouldnt allow such a relationship.  If that were to change, i can definitely see her with him, quite easily.  As for Faye, they already have past chemistry, they play off one another very well, and their personalities mesh together quite nicely.  Were Dora to chip away at or remove the source of her problems or at least take steps to weaken it (the problem here is she doesn't ever try) then she would hold a higher "rank" amongst the girls.

oh god i didn't rant too much did i?  i'm a wordy bastard and i like to convey my information to allow people to understand my thoughts best.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Nov 2010, 04:15
Oh boy, I think I just saw the out.

This is going to be 509 all over again.

"If you'll take steps to get yourself fixed up - I mean more therapy, medication, whatever it takes, I'll do my best to treat you as a friend and not as a <crazy ex-girlfriend>."

Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 16 Nov 2010, 04:31
Oh God...

And Marten would do it too.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Jacob on 16 Nov 2010, 09:17
To be honest after a while of looking at Dora and possibly being a fool by over-analyzing her character...she doesn't flow too well with Marten.  Really though i find Marten has too many parallels to my own life so perhaps that colors my view.  But to be a bit more descriptive; it's not her lack of confidence in herself that irks me.  It's that she does-...well lets suffice to say it i guess she's a bit too real.  She's not entirely broken, which is a major point in her favor, yet the parts that are her weaknesses, they're too blatant.  Lack of self-confidence is a minor issue for most, and even when it's a major issue, when one has as much success and as caring friends as Dora does, usually one gathers the mental will to start fighting back. And if one cannot, usually they look for tools to assist them.

As far as has been seen, Dora has done none of this.  She lashes out instantly at Marten for the slightest perceived detection, and then refuses to comprehend a situation like the latest comic shows.  On top of which, this has happened multiple times previous, and only the latest time did someone step in and hand her her ass.  But even that didn't seem to hold.  Whether it is the fault of her surroundings, or the fault of herself, she believes that for her, an apology should be enough to fix a situation if she's apologizing, but she expects others to bend over backwards if they do something that upsets her.  This, combined with the confidence issues, causes her to create a self-fulfilling prophecy in making herself alone.  She doesn't think she's worth it, is shocked when someone else does, and so badly desires for nothing to separate her from that person, she lashes out the second she detects something that could.  And once that happens, she goes into the mindset "i knew it wouldn't work, it never does and never will" which then "tricks" herself into feeling justified once that person leaves because of her own actions.  it's a common mentality trait i've seen in multiple people, mostly women unfortunately, and i guess it irks me slightly to see it here as well.

Haha, you could say i like my fantasy stories to stay fantasy, you know?  But that said, while Faye, and even Hannelore have their problems mentally, those two have had enough self-will and internal strength (and in Faye's case, a bit of external) to start chipping away at their problems.  Dora, whom has enough external that logically should trigger an internal shift, doesn't.  And thus far, nobody has seen fit to push, until Faye stepped in, but even then, just like i predicted to a friend of mine, the pattern started again: she was easily forgiven, her fears spiked up again, she settled back into her routine, pushing away what came before, and nobody kept the issue in circulation until it was no longer relevant.  Today's issue further demonstrates the cycle by showing that upon mention of the issue, due to it happening during a current conflict, it did nothing to cow her and in fact did the opposite.

With all that analysis done, it's my strong belief due to the information shown, that Dora should not be with anyone until such a time as she has at least begun to gain control over this problem.  As seen, Marten is patient, but...oddly like myself, he is most willing to help those who desire to help themselves.  the words "I'm sick of your apologies" do not translate as Dora did to "i dont want you around anymore" but rather "i dont want you to have to apologize anymore".

Why is it I learned something about myself while reading this? O_o

That aside, I completely agree with this, save for whom I believe Marten should be dating. Faye has already jumped hurtles in bettering herself and views Marten too much as a brother or friend ("You are a true friend, flower pits."). She's also making a lot of progress with Angus. I'm not particularly attached to the guy, but I think they work well.

With Hanners, it's been shown that has Hanners been able to overcome her fears and boundaries in the hopes of bettering herself. She even went out on a play date with Sven recently to see what it's like. Now, I'd like to see how Hanners and Marten mesh. If it's a downhill slope, at least it could turn out to be a humorous one for us to see. If they mesh well, surprise, she's come out of her shell enough that she can handle such a relationship. We've also seen, while not a dominant woman by nature, she CAN put her foot down in epic ways when something truly irks her (Marigold's mess, for example).

If neither Faye nor Hanners would work, then, really, Marten and Dora COULD work together, if she's simply have some faith in herself and her significant other.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Coco on 16 Nov 2010, 09:49
Anyone who would push Marten to better himself a little. He has been in this rut of minimum wage slavery, abandoning his music, abandoning his blog and just kind of hanging around. Whereas Dora is an entrepreneur who has been stressed out dealing with the trials of owning a business. Faye and Hannelore have been making significant and quantifiable progress with regards to their issues. Marten has been...
Anyone who would force Marten to replace that ... with a real accomplishment. I actually don't want to see him with anyone for a while. I want him to hang out with Steve a lot more in the next comics. Steve has always pushed Marten to go out and take what he wants, or to figure out what he wants at the very least. This was most apparent when Marten was torn between Dora and Faye, but I think it could apply to other parts of Marten's life. Spending time with Sven would also be good. I always saw them as halves of the same whole. Sven was all Id and Marten was all Superego. Sven has been in the process of learning to ignore his id, maybe he can help Marten learn to listen to his a little.
Additionally, I would like to see Mom come back to town. She pushed Marten to think about alternative careers that involved his actual likes and interests and I think he needs a refresher on that.
So, I guess my answer is no one. I don't want to see him with anyone. Not for a while. In the end though, someone much like Dora. Independent and strong, who wouldn't allow him to be a doormat. Like I said in the WCDT, I think Dora and Marten need a trial separation. At the end, depending on how it goes and what they learn, I would be open to them getting back together or breaking up entirely.

TL'DR version:
I think Marten needs time alone to figure out who he and get out of his rut. Dora could have helped him do that but her issues prevented it. Someone like Dora but willing to push him to better himself rather than just happy that he's easy going.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: muffin_of_chaos on 16 Nov 2010, 11:31
Ideally, Hanners.
Marten needs to be with someone who actually needs him to be as supportive as he always wants to be without having specific trust issues.  (Most people have trust issues--some more pronounced--but Hanners's greatest enemy is her own mind, and so in comparison she seems to trust other people more than the average, while still relying on them to accept her for who she is.)  Marten's low-maintenance state of being and strong supportive tendencies need to be actively and openly appreciated by a girlfriend so that he can accept them as his own strengths and learn what differentiates him from his romantic partner(s).  I don't think he's smart enough to truly accept his strengths without someone he deeply cares about--and who has the option to reciprocate--demonstrating that she does.
If he can figure out what he brings to the relationship table, he will be both more self-confident and better able to communicate with his partner(s) to determine what is mutually desired and what is problematic.  Communication is the foundation of a strong relationship (as long as you have mutual attraction covered).

Of course, I don't think Hannelore is ready, willing or able to be in a mature, committed relationship (or ready or willing to be in any relationship).  Moreover, Marten's nature would indicate that he will not get over Dora for quite some time, if they end up being broken up.  And I think he would feel the need to rebound (again) probably before Hanners might want a relationship (which might be never) or specifically a relationship with Marten (her first good friend and who was with Dora for their formative friendship and will probably pine over Dora for a time), or before he would think of Hanners as a relationship possibility (probably never).  So the presumed ideal scenario won't happen.

As a side note, if Marten and Dora separate the classic soap opera/often real life reaction of Dora's would be to get drunk and sleep with some random person.  (Reminiscent of her brother, but Sven was always clear about his official non-relationship with Faye.)  Which would then lead to Marten feeling heartbroken--even if he doesn't romantically love Dora--and Dora to try to repent.  If all this were to happen, Marten would probably do some more soul-searching and start crushing on any New Girl he meets.  Given that we don't know who the New Girl would be, he might even be potentially best with her.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: brew on 16 Nov 2010, 12:32

I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done.

Only like the white women, eh?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Soluzar on 16 Nov 2010, 12:53

I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done.

Only like the white women, eh?
Nice try, but no.

The template crosses over between racial boundaries. It's both more and less specific than that. I only go for dark hair, dark eyes, and curves.  Within that basic specification, any variations are equally delicious.

My current girlfriend is Asian, ethnically speaking. She's British, culturally speaking though. Past girlfriends have included one girl with blonde hair, and one redhead. I'm just old enough now to know what I like and to not bother straying far from it.

It isn't impossible I'd fall for someone who didn't check the right boxes. It just isn't likely.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Coco on 16 Nov 2010, 14:25
I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done. I mean, I can look at someone who doesn't fit and think "Ohh yeah, she's kinda hot", but at the same time... no way would I want to get with her.

It's not that weird. Studies show that men (in general) have a fairly narrow template with regard to what they find "attractive" in a lady compared to what a lady (in general) may find attractive in a gentleman. I think most people, ladies and gentlemen, will work within their template assuming they have plenty of options to choose from. Soluzar likely just had the freedom of choice to not work outside of his preferred template and therefore never widened it. Sven may have explained it best here.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=798
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: tughluq on 16 Nov 2010, 14:36
I really am surprised to find that I'm apparently wired so differently than most people. I have one template for 'attractive people', and I don't stray far from that in terms of what gets the job done. I mean, I can look at someone who doesn't fit and think "Ohh yeah, she's kinda hot", but at the same time... no way would I want to get with her.

It's not that weird. Studies show that men (in general) have a fairly narrow template with regard to what they find "attractive" in a lady compared to what a lady (in general) may find attractive in a gentleman. I think most people, ladies and gentlemen, will work within their template assuming they have plenty of options to choose from. Soluzar likely just had the freedom of choice to not work outside of his preferred template and therefore never widened it. Sven may have explained it best here.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=798


I think this might have something to do with beauty standards for women being more narrow than those for men.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: sirisaacnuton on 16 Nov 2010, 14:49
To elaborate on my earlier suggestion that Hanners would be my choice, here's what I was picturing:

Hannelore has certainly been making strides (though we've seen as far back as her appearance at the bar and the visit from her mother than she can overcome her neuroses if she really puts her mind to it), but she's not in actual relationship state yet, and nowhere near ready for any kind of physical relationship.  But then, I wouldn't really like seeing Marten immediately dive into something else while still trying to get his head back on straight after Dora (assuming they break up).  So I imagine it's more like that Marten finds that things are awkward or cool with Dora, may or may not feel a little confused about Faye (like maybe the Toto conversation and head-pat, combined with seeing her in a relationship, seems to have dredged up some stuff he thought he was over), and so lo and behold, Marten ends up talking more to Hanners.  Her obsessive nature means that anything she's ever heard or read about relationships stuck around somewhere deep inside, and she ends up being able to offer surprisingly insightful help to Marten (kind of an idiot savant of relationship counseling).  They grow closer and spend more time together than they used to.  No awkward sexual tension, no major character shifts on Hanners's part.  Not actually anything going on between them, other than just bonding, but it's enough to cause, say, the quizzically raised eyebrow from Faye and some speculation amongst their circle.  

It would be a nice opportunity to have more Hannelore (and the strip always needs more Hannelore), and develop her character a little bit more.  As they talk we could find out a little bit more about her childhood (because those strips have got to be fun to write...at this point they could basically go anywhere).  Marten can get over a relationship that started out great and ended up rocky, try to get some perspective and figure out what it is he's looking for and whether or not things can be cool with him and Dora.  And Hanners can form a deeper friendship, something which she may not have had ever, which could be very emotional in and of itself (I'm picturing possibly a touching little moment where a bewildered Marten is trying to soothe a suddenly teary-eyed Hannelore without entering her personal space and freaking her out).

In short, not a romantic (or certainly physical) relationship, but I think a closer relationship with Hanners would be just what the doctor ordered for both of them.  And also for the strip to have an opportunity to have a little more variety...if ALL your major characters are in relationships, the majority of your serious plots will probably revolve around relationships.  I'm sure we can get plenty of cutesy/funny relationship strips with Faye and Angus, the awkward/angsty relationship strips when Sven comes in, and goofy shallow relationship stuff whenever Steve pops in.  But at least this way, you can have some non-relationship kind of strips with Hanners and Marten.  And it also gives even more opportunity to pair Pintsize and Wilson...always good for a break in the action.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: AngelofShadows on 16 Nov 2010, 14:52
Sweet Tits   :psyduck:

This thread needed more psyduck.

edit: I didn't find this as funny as I thought I would so I'll make an actual suggestion.

Hanners. Yes. Why? It seems most of her advancements in handling her OCD has stemmed from interactions from him. Also, she's adorable, and would be highly entertaining to watch her deal with trying to actually have a relationship.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Soluzar on 16 Nov 2010, 15:16
It's not that weird. Studies show that men (in general) have a fairly narrow template with regard to what they find "attractive" in a lady compared to what a lady (in general) may find attractive in a gentleman. I think most people, ladies and gentlemen, will work within their template assuming they have plenty of options to choose from. Soluzar likely just had the freedom of choice to not work outside of his preferred template and therefore never widened it. Sven may have explained it best here.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=798
That comic sort of explains it except that my freedom of choice was never so wide as that Sven used to enjoy. I'm not some kind of egotist to think that. I have been pretty lucky with the opportunities that came my way though. More by chance than because I'm remarkable enough to deserve them.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 16 Nov 2010, 15:39
Something else i noticed about Dora.  During the whole "Faye returns from her date" sequence, Dora reacted badly to Marten waking her up and asking what her favorite Toto song was.  Now, while i personally dont fully understand the meaning behind the question aside from some possible synchronization attempt, the reaction clued me into the coming explosion, as well as keyed me into another of Dora's flaws.

She doesn't look back.  Ever.  Now, while in some cases this would be a positive trait, being that it means the person does not dwell on the past and reduces the lingering pain from a previous incident; in this case, it proves a negative one.  Because she doesn't ever look back, she doesnt even look back on the good things.  Let alone the things she honestly needs to pay attention to.  While understandable she'd forget about the potential significance of the query, usually my own partner goes back and remembers something discussed or brought up the night before, even when she was asleep and i woke her up with it.  Seeing Dora's personality of "push forward no matter what", Dora never looked back at the question and asked herself "wait...why did he ask that?"  Nor did she ask him that question.

Now for us readers, we see the significance of her rejection of his synchronization attempt, he was clearly distressed about her reaction, as well as her words, but being who he is, he pushed it aside, probably figuring "it was a bad time to ask anyway".  However for some of us it was a clue in that things would start being shaken during their relationship again.

Dora will take a lot of work before she's good for anyone, let alone Marten.  all of these personality flaws are of such proportions that it just makes her a ticking time-bomb that never wants to remember when she did wrong, and only when others did.

While Marten does indeed need to grow a pair sometimes, it's been shown that when it comes to cards on the table, he'll stand up for himself and his thoughts if need be.  At the same time, he's also willing to listen and go back and visit a past failure or pain to attempt to break it down and understand it.  Faye, Hannelore and what we've seen of even Penelope do the same.  Dora does not, and as such perpetuates her own difficulties, which in turn prevents her from having a stable relationship.

While i'm personally a fan of the Faye and Marten pairing, Faye is indeed currently beginning a relationship with someone else, and it is indeed interesting to see them coming.  As well, i fully agree with an above poster when they mentioned that at this point Hanners isnt ready for a physical relationship with anyone right now, but would best benefit (as well as we would, there is NEVER too much Hanners) from spending more time with Marten, as done previously.  From there...well, anything can happen.  Hannelore is a strong girl, and as well, she IS getting more interested in wanting to pursue a physical relationship.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: eyosgkxb on 16 Nov 2010, 16:47
One vote Marten tries dating Hanners/Marigold, he can teach them how to be slutty indie show girls.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: sirisaacnuton on 16 Nov 2010, 17:00
Follow up #2 about the Marten/Hanners experiment...

I had forgotten all about this comic:  http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1659

This is what I picture with Marten/Hanners.  Such an opportunity to explore both characters in new situations, and it's totally adorable as is, without any romantic entanglements.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: muffin_of_chaos on 16 Nov 2010, 17:00
I would say roughly a fourth of the people I know--and a third of my partners--have acted in paranoid/overboard ways similar to Dora, and I may have myself back when I was around 15.  It isn't uncommon per se, and isn't restricted to people who have had crappy relationships.  The more common reason is a heightened sense of how "flawed" they are, making them willing to act to make sure other people don't have to deal with the flaws, even while counting on a "true love partner" to be able to ignore every perceived flaw.  From what I've seen, in general one doesn't get over this sort of paranoia if they're being enabled.  And it seems like usually the remedy is the shifting of certain philosophical views, or a more clear self-image.

But heck, I know people who take pride in being a selfish partner who is nonetheless willing to break up at the drop of a hat over "irreconcilable differences" (i.e. the other person's ambivalence or problem).  They seem to think it makes them individualistic and passionate.  Usually it seems more like a martyr complex.

Martyr complexes can be borne and worked through, but not if the partner's a wuss.  In my experience.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: That_Reaction_Face_Guy on 16 Nov 2010, 17:12
(http://i48.tinypic.com/24g83sn.png)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Fen on 16 Nov 2010, 17:31
Howbout a girl that's not completely insane?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 16 Nov 2010, 20:58
Name one woman in the history of the world who doesn't have a bit of insanity in them. Name one PERSON in the world that doesn't have a bit of insanity in them.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Somniloquence on 16 Nov 2010, 21:32
Yay! Finally got an activation email!

Anyway, I'm little surprised at how people are for Marten/Hanners. Definitely I think she's best suited to Marten out of the current people we know. Even ignoring current relationships, I don't think anyone else would quite work. I also think that out of all the guys Hannelore could possibly be with, Marten would be the best. She's definitely most comfortable with Marten out of any of the guys, and maybe even out of anyone in the cast. Situations like the tickling thing that someone brought up earlier and when Marten gives her the worry-hat show Marten and Hannelore joking around and just generally being comfortable with each other in a really nice way. I also think that their interactions are adorable.

Hannelore has worked through so many of her problems and has largely grown as a person since we've seen her. I've actually disliked Dora more since she's been going out with Marten, just because I see the way she treats difficult situations.

I've actually wanted Hannelore/Marten for a while...
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: muffin_of_chaos on 16 Nov 2010, 21:57
Name one woman in the history of the world who doesn't have a bit of insanity in them. Name one PERSON in the world that doesn't have a bit of insanity in them.

I try to date the sanest people I find.  And they always have issues, especially the women I've dated (seems like it was either mother issues or self-image problems).  But there are different varieties of crazy, and certain kinds are not conducive to mature relationships.  I don't know if Dora's is that kind...Marten doesn't seem to be trying to help at all, so it might be that they're just not compatible.  Or another way they're not compatible, as I'm not of the opinion that they have chemistry, compared to all the other couples in the strip (including Faye and Sven but excepting Steve and Cosette, who we've barely seen anyway).
Of course, some people think that if you can get into a mostly-stable relationship, it's good enough.  They may have a great point.

Luckily, even if Marten and Dora break up, I don't think Dora's issues stem from this sort of situation, so I don't think it will exacerbate anything.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 16 Nov 2010, 22:20
Fools, Raven is the obvious choice.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Emperor Norton on 16 Nov 2010, 22:24
The Allosaurus.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 16 Nov 2010, 22:33
yeah.  Dora's problems stem from things outside of Marten or his ability to truly control.  If anything Dora will simply fall back on the mindset that is common for her mentality type "just like i thought, it didnt work.  i knew it wouldnt.  it's my fault for getting my hopes up.  i always knew something would get in the way, and i was right."

The problem, as stated multiple times above, is that "something" is so general that they themselves are aware of its width, and latch on to the first possible thing.  Not so much because they want the relationship to fail, but because it would prove them right.  and out of anything, the only thing they believe they have, is their pride.  so they take that pride, and work towards making themselves as correct as possible.

"i'm the one in the right.  everyone else is wrong.  and even if i'm wrong, they were more wrong, more often, and they have no right to hold a grudge."  she's of the mindset that wants so badly for that to be true, that she makes it true, by leading herself, and others into bullcrap situations, just so she can justify herself, be correct and reign superior.  Hints of this had been shown way back, when Raven first showed up.  There was an inflection in Dora's words when she was speaking with Raven, why she left the "coven" and whatnot.  she felt herself above such "dumb teenage games" and very vaguely lorded that over the other girl.

Raven, while a goofball, has been proven to have a very sharp brain in there, just either muddled by stupid, or she just doesnt care enough to try to be booksmart, though she could be.  she also seems to be a rather non-judgmental person.  Unlike Dora who immediately labels people based on a few meetings and actions, and then sticks to that, even if the possibility of change is there.  She assumes, she judges, and lord have mercy on whoever does the same with her, even though she's an open book.

Her successes are her own, and she views them as such.  she's lonely, but would rather be right and alone, than wrong and with someone.  so she'll let people in, but she's constantly watching them the closer they get to her.  and she expects herself to always be forgiven because it's her.  But if she's not, that person is horrible, and evil and should feel like a waste of space because they dare to bring up something she did wrong.  "I apologized, that should be enough for them!"  She takes, but she isnt willing to give as much as she takes.  She doesnt want to go as far for someone else as they go for her, because she feels she deserves it all for some reason.

Some people might think i'm completely wrong, and maybe i am, but that's how her mentality presents itself.  it's not a conscious thing.  that is to say it's not so much at the forefront, she's not so much purposefully perpetuating it as it is that it's become a subconscious truth in the back of her mind, and it would take continuous attacks on it before she brings it back to the front, recognizes it for what it truly is, and then works towards banishing it.

Her surface self is perfectly stable.  but her surface self is formed from a false foundation, formed from the true self, which is selfish, lonely, but too proud to do what the others do, even if it could work.  thus, her subconscious muddles her view of herself.  "i have problems, but so does everyone else.  I'm just lacking a bit of self-confidence is all!  Look at Hannelore!  She's INSANE!  And Faye!  Faye's even more messed up than i am!  She's in Therapy for god's sake!"  She compares herself subconsciously to the people around her, and generalizes her problems compared to them.  Faye has deep mental issues from her father's suicide that she never got over.  Hannelore is...well she's Hannelore.  Marigold is an otaku.  Marten is a doormat.  Sven is a man-whore.  "Compared to them, i'm perfectly fine!  There's nothing wrong with me!  I dont need therapy!  I've got a successful business, good friends, i'm set!"

And this mentality blinds her to the true problem.  She's clinging so hard to what she has, the problem she DOES have, which is a very big one, seems pointless to dwell on.  If others leave her, it's their fault.  she saw it coming, she was right all along.  They're the ones that caused problems.  "I apologized.  That is enough.  that BETTER be enough."  At this level, she's got the worse mental problems than Faye or Hannelore.  Because theirs are more prominent that they're conscious of them.  It's strong enough to mess with their daily lives.  They're aware of them.  Dora is largely unaware of it until she's cornered and has no choice but to bow, but she wont bow without a massive struggle, even if she was the cause of the problem.  the combination of lack of self-confidence being hidden and covered up, pride, and desire to be correct is a fatal one.  and it's not at all uncommon in reality, which is probably another reason why i dont like Dora.  And just like in reality, nobody wants to be the one to say "look.  you're messed up.  not like Hannelore or Faye.  Worse.  Worse because at least they're actively aware of it, they're taking steps.  you dont see it.  you choose not to see it.  you need help because you cant see it.  we'll be with you every step of the way."

Honestly, if someone did?  Well...now it wouldnt do anything.  but maybe down the line it would.  But as is, again, i state: Dora is unfit to be with anyone, let alone Marten.

Also i totally would laugh at a Marigold/Marten setup.  that would be so hilariously broken it'd be totally worth doing.  Wait.  Speaking of Raven, where'd she go again?  I cant remember.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: hannahsaurusrex on 16 Nov 2010, 23:31
Wouldn't your post fit more on the "What's Dora's fundamental character?" topic?

And I don't think it's control. I think it's confidence, which both her and Marten have issues with. She's trying to "fake it til she makes it." and sees more potential in people than they see in themselves. Marten has confidence in his lack of confidence, and doesn't really think he's worth much.

I like Dora and Marten together, a lot. Maybe its because it's Marten and Dora are very similar to my boyfriend and I. But because when it comes down to it, when you ask couples that have lasted a long time what makes their relationship work, I usually hear "because they get me" or "because they laugh at my jokes" which they do.
I don't see any other character laughing and going along with "ear fucking"

I think they both need work, but I think she needs to talk to him more first and foremost.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 17 Nov 2010, 03:22
Well see confidence tends to breed control.  Confidence breeds focus, which then leads to understanding, which then allows greater control of a subject.  What she needs is confidence, confidence in herself, confidence in her relationships, and confidence in the person she's with.  from the first two, she'll be able to focus better, to see what's real, and what's just in her head.  from there, she'll get what's "wrong" with her (or the other) and will be able to take steps to "fix" it.

You're quite right on the part where she needs to talk to him for them to work, but it wouldnt work in the first place.  As shown by today's comic, Marten is fully aware of the pointlessness of the cycle, and gets that everything began with her, and he just accidentally ended it.  The reason why Dora talking to Marten wouldnt work, is because, once again, of her Pride.  She wont accept anything she did incorrectly, and thus trying to speak with her and balance things out will do nothing except drive them apart further.

Her view of what's "important" is all she sees, as shown by the last two episodes: she doesnt get anyone else's views, and doesnt truly care to.  because of this, she wont be able to be spoken to about what "she" is doing improperly, because she'll just perceive it as an "attack" against her person.  I know quite a few people with the mindset she has, and they all follow the same predictable pattern.  Dora and Marten would work together if Dora didnt have such a powerful destructive problem looming in her subconscious.  But she does, and because of it, no matter who she's with, the relationship is on a time limit.  She was lucky she was with Marten for so long, because he's an understanding, compassionate, caring guy.  Yeah he puts his foot in his mouth sometimes, and he doesnt always say the exact thing he intended to say (though he does usually say the general, and it's just the other person's inability to read between the lines that gets him in trouble), but he's the kinda guy you want both as a best friend, and a lover.

Dora had both at her whim, but she ignored herself.  As you said, hannahsaurusrex, she's trying to "fake it till she makes it".  But by doing so, she's ignoring the all important truth of herself, which as we've seen, has now apparently doomed her relationship.

I'm honestly hoping they dont get back together until such a time as Dora takes steps to realize she's the cause of her own problems.  Even if Marten has to be single for a good while, that's fine.  I just hope he doesnt pair back up with Dora any time soon.  She's too messed in the head in a way that can only be changed when she desires it to change.  which she obviously doesnt.

Also, you probably hear such bland responses like "because they get me" and "because they laugh at my jokes" partially through truth, but also because that's a very loaded question.  you're asking what allows their relationship to work, as if there is a single key component.  so they're put on the spot and have to grab the first most-truth they can find.  alter the question, ask someone "how is it that you've stayed together so long" and see what the response is.  depending on how its put and the inflection you'll probably find the responses similar, but you might be surprised.  Marten and Dora are very similar to me and my current girlfriend, complete with her mentality issues, and my lack of drive.  But after five years, i finally broke through by being fed up with things.

Maybe this'll be the catalyst for her to decide to fix herself, maybe not.  And you're right, this probably would fit better in that other topic.  that's what i get for not looking around eh?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Olymander on 17 Nov 2010, 03:27
Wait.  Speaking of Raven, where'd she go again?  I cant remember.

As of 1509 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1509) and 1510 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1510), Raven has been attending college.

On another note, although I'm a strong proponent of "let's just wait and see what happens,"  I will note that Hannelore has had crazy crush-like and stalker tendencies towards Marten for quite some time now.  I've always had the sneaking suspicion that the pretend date and all the other attempts at progress she's been making are some sort of long-range plan to finally "get" Marten...
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: sirisaacnuton on 17 Nov 2010, 05:31

On another note, although I'm a strong proponent of "let's just wait and see what happens,"  I will note that Hannelore has had crazy crush-like and stalker tendencies towards Marten for quite some time now.  I've always had the sneaking suspicion that the pretend date and all the other attempts at progress she's been making are some sort of long-range plan to finally "get" Marten...

She would certainly be the type to put a long-term plan with a lot of initial preparation into place and then follow through.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 17 Nov 2010, 10:38
Lets all hope she doesnt go the way of her mother and begin trying to throw the other potential girlfriends in a volcano.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Parasol on 17 Nov 2010, 11:35
So, my forever standing opinion is "Fuck Dora," However, that is only because she reminds me of an ex that ended in burning firebally hatred... hell she even looks like her (Caricatured of course).

I will put in my little bit about who i want to see Martin with though.

In my opinion, i'd love to see him with Hanners post-crazy, or at least someone like her... and i know i know, blah blah blah, hanners is awesome blah blah. I agree, i love her.. but it's more of a personality recognition than actually liking her character. She is genuinely kind, thoughtful, well meaning, lovely character. Martin needs someone like that. Not a controlling, bitchy, trust issues lame ass mess that Dora is. Feel free to stomp on me for the Dora hate, but seriously... i fucking hate her.

(And i LOVE that Jeph has written a character that i abhor. It makes for great reading!)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jedraft on 17 Nov 2010, 12:44
I just have to say I am delighted to see Marten finally grow a pair.  Yes, Dora, you finally did it.  Congratulations for pushing and pushing and pushing until you found his upper limit.   

Now, hit the bricks.   

Just sayin'.

I don't think Marten should be with any of the established major female characters. They're too close-knit, and we know them too well - and so does Marten.  I think we'll be treated to a new female character who'll be a sort of Anti-Dora, because Marten will tend to swing in the opposite direction from his previous amour.   Who knows?  Maybe she'll be some zaftig, life-loving, big-haired bubbly happy girl that will cause everyone to hate her with the heat of a thousand white-hot suns?  I dunno. I think that would be a nice contrast, at any rate.  :-D
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Snuffletrout on 17 Nov 2010, 12:47
Name one woman in the history of the world who doesn't have a bit of insanity in them. Name one PERSON in the world that doesn't have a bit of insanity in them.

I've always figured the "sanest" people are scary as hell. If people don't allow themselves any form of slack on their on behavior.. Then there's some serious issues underneath. Which brings me to point, the sanest people aren't sane at all.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Kalos on 17 Nov 2010, 13:20
He just needs someone who's actually strong, self-assured and outgoing... since this seems to be who he's attracted to, but I don't think has really found in the main cast. Basically Hetero-Tai.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 17 Nov 2010, 14:42
Hang on a second, what's Yelling Bird's gender and sexuality? There may be yet another option.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Mr_Rose on 17 Nov 2010, 15:33
What, and break up YB/Rippy? You monster!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: nockiemommy on 17 Nov 2010, 22:20
So YAY first post ...Needs more Psyduck! :psyduck: .... After reading today's comic, I decided it was time to break my QC forum silence ... I'm kinda glad Dora dumped him ... But I'm not sure if Faye is right for Marten either. Raven's much too much of an idiot ... Marigold's yaio fixation would drive Marten insane (remember the look on his face when they went to the anime-fest at the library?) ... And, though Hanners still isn't quite ready for a relationship, I think she would fit Marten great ... Too, there's always the option of bringing in Sarah, the girl who crushed on him in the beginning ... Whatever happened to her, anyway? ... Oh, and sorry if this seems to drag on in a long paragraph ... I have a 2 month old daughter and my mom dribbled formula into the keyboard of the laptop, now the enter key doesn't work ... Anyway, yay, first post!!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 17 Nov 2010, 22:25
... Whatever happened to her, anyway?

Eaten by an Allosaurus.  :mrgreen:

Very tragic, but what are you gonna do?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Fen on 17 Nov 2010, 22:37
Sven.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: nockiemommy on 17 Nov 2010, 22:54
... Whatever happened to her, anyway?

Eaten by an Allosaurus.  :mrgreen:

Very tragic, but what are you gonna do?  :psyduck:
Damn the Allosaurus ... I wonder if he had a headache after a caffiene high after eating a barista? Ponderous, ponderous  :psyduck:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Snuffletrout on 18 Nov 2010, 05:09
Sven.

Now there's a thought...
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 18 Nov 2010, 07:34
Well seeing as they've actually broken up I'll make a semi-serious post.

...
Yeah I think Marten should stay single for a while, like an earlier poster said. Maybe focus on getting a better job or something. idklol
I really can't imagine any other character we know right now being with him.

I've always liked Dora, but yeah in the end I guess they just weren't gonna work.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Nov 2010, 10:23
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

Thisis not yet a done deal. 
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Nov 2010, 10:24
Hey, that is a thought. Redirecting his energy toward improving his life and realizing his potential.

He'd have to do better than the last time he was single, though.

EDIT:
Who would be right for Marten? It should be someone who is
- capable of a relationship. Scratch Hannelore.
- assertive. That's both what he's into and what he needs
- having interests in common with him.
- single


For example, someone who has a double major in music and being a decent human being. We don't know whether she's single and straight, though.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Snuffletrout on 18 Nov 2010, 11:37
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

Thisis not yet a done deal. 

True, I thought so too from just reading the comic. The comment on it though is:

"This has been a long time coming, I think. Doesn't make it any less sad for me to post, though."
Kinda sounds definite.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: That_Reaction_Face_Guy on 18 Nov 2010, 13:13
Sven.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/qy8jrt.jpg)
You_Knew_It_Was_coming.jpg
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2010, 13:26
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 18 Nov 2010, 13:28
And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

This. Absolutely this.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Wiregeek on 18 Nov 2010, 13:43
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

You do know Jeph's gonna cliffhanger the lot of us, right?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Silvius on 18 Nov 2010, 13:44
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

Completely agreed. I see the next word being "No." Maybe that's just a hope.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 18 Nov 2010, 13:48
I'd like to point out that Dora's trying to break up with Marten. 

This is not yet a done deal. 

And I'm still waiting for the next words to come out of Marten's mouth. They will define him for the rest of the strip's run.

You do know Jeph's gonna cliffhanger the lot of us, right?

Yup, and then he's gonna do it again on Wednesday.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 18 Nov 2010, 15:04
I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: throw_aways on 18 Nov 2010, 17:26
I think from Jeph's comment under the comic, "This has been a long time coming, I think. Doesn't make it any less sad for me to post, though.", this is clearly meant to be their end. He could just be tugging at us, but I really don't think they are going to make it through this, and I don't think we should really want them to.

The idea that they should force their way through this seems to me a symptom of our society's obsession with relationships lasting "forever". If people are happy around each other less often than they are unhappy, then it's time to end. Dora said it perfectly- it was a good run, and they shouldn't regret anything, but they've done all they are going to do for each other.

Marten needs someone he actually has things in common with.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Nov 2010, 18:53
Who said anything about being happy?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 18 Nov 2010, 21:34
Here's another thought.

A pile of Allosaurus poop comes together and forms a reborn Sara. Then shit gets even more real.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: daryljfontaine on 18 Nov 2010, 22:59
Here's another thought.

A pile of Allosaurus poop comes together and forms a reborn Sara. Then shit gets even more real.

 :mrgreen:
     \
      I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

D
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Odin on 19 Nov 2010, 07:10
I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Wiregeek on 19 Nov 2010, 07:11
I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).

He comes!

(I would be highly entertained by Jeph doing a non-canon 'Zalgo' strip. I've always gotten a hoot out of those.)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Bologna on 19 Nov 2010, 08:44
Hurp a durp first post.


I don't think Marten should date anyone that's currently in the known QCverse.  I mean, he could, I guess, but I think he needs to be single for a while and I don't think anyone's really a good match for him as they are now. 


I've been following this strip since high school (oh goodness, I've been reading this comic for seven years) and while Farten (snrk) had some good things going for a while, that ship has sailed.  Just because a comic starts with that overarching shadow doesn't mean it continues as such.  Dora and Marten are breaking up because of something that happened 1300 strips ago.  I'm sure Marten realizes there's some truth in that, but that doesn't mean that that's still the case at #1800.  Marten's not going to start pining for Faye again.  Especially this far in, they work far better as friends than as romantic interests, and I'm pretty sure they both know it. 


So we need a girl that's sweet, funny, a bit self-depreciating, strong, and not yet in the QCverse...


Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 19 Nov 2010, 09:03

Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:

OTP!!!!!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Wiregeek on 19 Nov 2010, 09:16

Wait...

Hold...

HOLD...

Marten/Sweet-Tits. 

 :psyduck:

OTP!!!!!


Marten/Yelling Bird!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 19 Nov 2010, 10:58
I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).

He comes!

(I would be highly entertained by Jeph doing a non-canon 'Zalgo' strip. I've always gotten a hoot out of those.)
Oh god, me too. We all know he could really pull it off. ... and really, I'm surprised there aren't more zalgo edits of QC comics anyway. I've found a total of one. (http://htmlcoderexe.deviantart.com/art/Questionable-Content-Zalgo-174974354) Given the major edits are of Garfield and CAD, I'm guessing most people only do zalgo edits of comics they don't like. (I have no opinion of either since I don't read them) No reason for that though, QC is full of comics that would make good Zalgo edits. Including the aforemented eldritch speech one.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Merrick on 19 Nov 2010, 11:31
Marten/Me.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Olymander on 19 Nov 2010, 11:35
Marten/Me.

Is it bad that for some reason, when I read that, I suddenly had the song from the old My Buddy commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX9RSyotle8) playing in my head?  Maybe I'm just ridiculously silly/old.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Dusk on 19 Nov 2010, 11:51
I'm sure the psychologists in our midst are having a field day with this...

A long time ago, it would've made sense for Marten to, after breaking up with Dora, rebound with Faye. They were kind of originally "supposed" to be together, though things didn't turn out.

However, with Faye's new interest(s), she seems out of the picture.

Hanners' neurosis, I feel, would be a huge barrier in a hookup between her and Marten unless he's actually a guy who is willing to wait and go slowly. Like, super-slowly. (I'm not saying he's not, but he and Dora have had their fair share of sex and...I don't think Hanners would be willing to give up that easily. >> )

I think Marigold's out of the picture, too, since there seems to be a kind of pseudo-romance between her and Tai budding (though I'm sure she denies it) that I secretly want to see through to the end.

Raven? No. Just...no. (Wait, where'd she go, anyways?)

So...who else is there who isn't taken or isn't a lesbian.....


(On a side note. We have lesbians. A whole dorm at the very least of them. But have we had any gay guys? I know with the fanboys they're less than popular, but still...)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: akronnick on 19 Nov 2010, 11:58
Marten's boss from his old job was gay.

He was only in like two strips, if that.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Jonesy on 19 Nov 2010, 12:03
First Post. I don't think Marten should date anyone who works at the Coffee of Doom.

Has Marten had any real personal growth? Dora broke up with him. She took the active role, and he just followed along. He may ultimately agree that it was time to end this, but he never actually took an active role in it. Marten strikes me as too passive. He seems dissatisfied with his life but he hasn't done anything to better it. He works a job usually held by students despite having a college degree. He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.

I would like him to not date anyone for a while and maybe go on some strange adventure like Steve did after he broke up with Meena. I think Marten needs to go through a period of personal growth like Faye and Hannelore have.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: TRVA123 on 19 Nov 2010, 12:21
Has Marten had any real personal growth? Dora broke up with him. She took the active role, and he just followed along. He may ultimately agree that it was time to end this, but he never actually took an active role in it.

I couldn't agree with you more. While I do think that Martin grew to love Dora he never seemed... hmmm.... to be putting much of himself into the relationship. On some levels it seemed as though Martin was programed to think "I am dating her; I must make her happy and I must not cheat on her." I wonder how much of this comes from MartinDad and MartinMom's relationship....

Marten strikes me as too passive. He seems dissatisfied with his life but he hasn't done anything to better it. He works a job usually held by students despite having a college degree. He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues.

Again, I think you hit the nail on the head. I really want to see Martin taking a break from romance and learning to be single and happy. It's something that a lot of people need to learn how to do.... Then we can start the Martin Era of Awesome! Preferably one where he get's a job in the music industry and begins making some of his goals actually happen.

Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.

I would like him to not date anyone for a while and maybe go on some strange adventure like Steve did after he broke up with Meena. I think Marten needs to go through a period of personal growth like Faye and Hannelore have.

I'd argue that the government picked Steve up that one time, although I guess Steve could give them Martin's address for pickup. But that would turn this into an entirely different type of webcomic.
The Adventures of Martin! Awkward skinny indie boy by day, awkward skinny secret agent by night!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 19 Nov 2010, 13:29
First Post. I don't think Marten should date anyone who works at the Coffee of Doom.
Does the coffee itself count? That would be interesting. Not as good as  Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞ but stilll.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Arky on 19 Nov 2010, 14:49
(On a side note. We have lesbians. A whole dorm at the very least of them. But have we had any gay guys? I know with the fanboys they're less than popular, but still...)

Marten's dad, and his fiance Maurice.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Varian7 on 19 Nov 2010, 14:59
Also Marten's original boss.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Yellowstone on 19 Nov 2010, 16:53
Marten strikes me as too passive...  He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.


I'm willing to grant that Marten could have done more to push Dora to get the help she needed to deal with her issues.  But I don't think you can argue that he was unhappy in the relationship.  There were unhappy moments in the relationship, to be sure, but on the whole Dora and Marten made each other happy.  The face in the last panel of 1799 is not the face of a man who's been dumped from a relationship he wanted to get out of.

I also don't see what parallel you're trying to draw with Steve.  If your argument is that he rebounds quickly from being dumped - well, Marten just got dumped.  We don't know yet how long he'll take to pick himself up and get back to normal.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: numbvox on 19 Nov 2010, 17:01
I'm interested in what all of you who find Dora so abhorrent or even just don't think she's quite right, would attribute to Marten's ideal partner.

Boobs, obviously.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 19 Nov 2010, 17:16
See the thing is, when Faye was working on straightening herself out she was single. She didn't have to struggle with a relationship like Dora has been.

Now that Dora's single she's in a much better position to do the same. Marten too.
H̶̵͔̦̟̖͍̑̏ͨͨͦ̔͡ȩ͎̻̳̘̜͉̜̖́̿ ̸̩̂̌̅̀w̵̨͖͍̟͔̋͒̅̎̆i͎͚̟̟̘̥͇̜̓͌ͨ͜͡l̴̨̘̰ͥͦ̊̔ͮ̾̿l͓̜̫̟̦͙ͪ̒ͭͤ ̢̘̞̩͙̲̒ͯ́̓̓̋ͣ̌f̨̮̘̄ͬ̍̽ͫ̈̈͑ͅį̻̝̯͖̼̜̜̏͠ͅn̡̜̹̦͊ͧ̔ͩ͗͆̓ͦd̷̥̭̝̼͓ͧ͗̎̉͢ͅ ͙̣̜̥̺̯̳ͨ̓͞į̛͉̥̘̤̗̺͆͒̇͗ͤͮ̓͋̀ş͓͈̐ͮ̽̔̾́̉ͫ͡ ̧̰̹̼̠̝ͮ͆̋̓͗͌͌̚t̵̜̟̣̗͙͔̏̌͡r͙̪͇͙͉ͤ͗͋̅̂̕͡u̱͚ͪ̏͡e̬͔̲̠͓̱̼̻̓ ̧͒̐̅ͯ͏̱̼̩͓l̪̖ͧͤ̆̍̍̀̕͜o̷͖̖̾̓͐̓̆͛͑̅v̘̦͈͈͐ͦ̅́ͩ̊͠e̜̫̰͒̈́ͤ͞ ̸͇̝̓̊ͪ̆ͅj̷̫́ͪ̈̒̂̓̅̑̕ṵ̡̧̱͊̃ͬͣͣ͋͛̎s̭ͦ̾̕͡t̖̙̲͍̫̗̗̜̋̍̒̆͋ͯͫͅ ̷̝̭̙̼͍̬͕ͮ̐ͨ̉a̷̝̲̙̩̘̼̣̜ͮͣͥ̾̑s̱͉̞̐͆͆̀ͅ ͭ͏̧͎̜͚̠̲̼̻̼I̢̜̪̱͂̓̒̒ͤ̀̈́̄ͯͅͅͅ ̮ͪ̃͐̎ͤ͒̄̓̃͢h̛͇͚̀̍͛̾͊ͣͤ́a̡ͧ̂ͧ̌̃͏̖̮͕ṽ̢̠̏̊̉̐̔̾ê͉͈͉̲̜̗̱̤ͩ͊ͧ̿͐̐̚.̩͚̗̬͍͕ͭ̉̎̍̋͟

(is that getting old ok i'll stop doing that now)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 19 Nov 2010, 17:40
Being single has nothing to do with working through your problems.  in fact being with someone actually helps, especially if you trust them a great deal.  the problem was Dora thinking singularly, she was thinking in terms of self, of only her.  So she didnt see the problems, because to her, they were too weak to worry about.  She started seeing them when Marten was around, but rather than take an active role and go "i dont like thinking like this.  i have no reason to think like this.  i must change this."  she went "oh god, i need to leave him or else we'll just fight all the time because i'm jealous of everyone else even though he's with me of his own will."

That right there, is her taking a problem that truly stems from her, and making it everyone else's fault.  She didnt break up with him for his sake, or because she was making him unhappy.  She broke up with him because she was unhappy, and she saw the existence of everyone else in relationship to Marten as the source of her problems, when it was her that was the only true problem.  She blatantly ignored that Faye not only was not constantly showing even slight interest in Marten, but she was actively and majorly crushing on someone else.

That type of reaction doesnt come from caring about others, that comes from caring about the self.  i've seen people do that exact reaction all the time, and the one personality trait they shared was that they focused on themselves, and not in the way that they checked their movements and actions to make sure others got pushed around as minimally as possible.  Now, with her being single again, the slight break in her mentality that began to appear because it was being pressured from all sides, is now going to repair, and reinforce itself.

Dora is effectively screwed, because Marten could have been able to end the cycle, but like we all agree, he's a bit too passive.  Thus the key word is "could".  He's supportive, but he's not pushy, and sometimes you need to be pushy.  not a lot, but once in a while.

All that said, i'd like to see the Hannelore/Marten bond deepen some more.  They always work well together.  Then again...Hanners might Trance on Dora so...that might be an explosion that would be hilarious to see happen.  But then again Hanners is working under Dora, and Hanners would probably be torn between the urge to defend, and the urge to keep a "normal" life...yet defending would-agh it's a cycle of confusion.  Wow, Hanners is in a bad place.

Also, did anyone notice that after...uhh...what's her name.  The one wi-Colette!  Does anyone else get the feeling that somehow, Colette's gonna be blamed for this?  Little Miss Bad Luck.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: JackFaerie on 19 Nov 2010, 18:09
Before he gets with anyone else, I think Marten needs to work on self-assertiveness and developing a spine a lot more. Clearly Dora has a lot of self-reflection and working-on-herself to do before she's ready for another relationship, but she's not the only one. Just because Marten's issues are much more benign to others doesn't mean they aren't there.  Before we, as readers, can try and decide what kind of girl Marten needs, he needs to actually be able to define what he needs for himself. And right now he can't.

I disagree with those who say Marten never found Dora attractive, but I agree that, regardless of whether or not he had some interest in her prior and regardless of what feelings he developed for her later, he dated her in large part because well--she was cute, he liked her well enough, and he was going with the flow.  He knew they didn't really "match up" well--their different takes on sex and intimacy, their different music tastes (not a big deal in general, but something that mattered to him at the time), other small personality quirks--but went along with it anyway. If another decently attractive, decently nice and smart girl had come along instead, he would date her. He does not have the ability to discriminate and to actually seriously consider his dating choices. And once he starts dating someone, he is not able to let go. He followed Vicky all the way across the country even though she was clearly showing signs of not reciprocating the full extent of his feelings. He stayed with Dora long after it became clear the relationship wasn't truly making him happy (and without even bringing up any of his growing dissatisfaction), and was shocked to see it end at a point when to our outside perspective, the end was both obvious and necessary.

Once he's over Dora and single, and a marginally cute nice girl asks him out, can you imagine him turning her down? Not really. And once he starts dating her, it would probably once again proceed to a relationship, and would lead to yet another dating situation Marten just kind of fell into. But he needs to learn that there's more than marginal niceness and cuteness that he should be looking for.

People have mentioned that a guy like Marten could pretty well go with any girl. No. I don't think that's true. I think the problem is that Marten makes himself pliable and malleable enough to go with pretty much any girl. And he shouldn't. He needs to be less of a doormat and figure out what he actually wants in a girl, what kind of girl would actually suit him before he starts dating again.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2010, 18:27
Yanno, I think it's a bit deeper than that.

I think it's three main points:

1. (Obviously) He was seeing her only because he couldn't "have" Faye;
2. He was seeing her because she "pursued" him (see the "sexy trap" comment by Raven back in 536); and
3. He hasn't given me any reason for me to break up with him like all the other <blanks> I dated.

It all boils down to Trust issues. And given that this is one of the earliest things in the Piaget stages of human development, I suspect there was something that happened to her pretty far back.

Will Jeph ever reveal that to us? Maybe, maybe not.

Could he write Dora out of the story completely? Yes. (How? Well, I have an inkling that having Hanners as an "employee" at COD might facilitate things. I mean, she does have a lot of cash behind her, but that's another topic.)

Will we ever see her back as a regular cast member - or even as Marten's girlfriend? Maybe, maybe not.

Is it going to be a wild ride? Probably.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: eschaton on 19 Nov 2010, 18:35
First post I think (after lurking off and on for some time). 

Personally, I think that if you really want Marten to see growth, the last thing he should do is date anyone else seriously for at least 500 strips.  Casual hookups would be great though.  Yes, I know they don't jibe well with his character, but it's part of growing as a person.  Although Marten came into the series with a long dry spell, he seems to be a serial monogamist, and he really should be more proactive with dating and more picky - not just fall into a relationship with the first woman who comes his way.  I think the most major realization for his character would be if he discovers that with a bit more of a self-assured attitude, he'd have women throwing themselves at him.  I don't see him turning himself into some David DeAngelo acolyte, but some half-measures in those directions would be a big step up for him. 

It's unfortunate Steve is with Cosette, because really, Marten needs a bro right now to get drunk with.  Angus would otherwise work great as a friend to Martin (they seem to be almost identical, except Angus is oddly more self assured but less socially adept), but of course since he'll be with Faye, it's unlikely he'll be much of a help.  That leaves Sven.  Sven and Martin don't have the makings of good friends, but they are sort of a yin and yang in terms of the strip - Martin needs more of Sven in him, and Sven more of Martin, in order to become well-rounded people.  However, it doesn't seem likely the gang would entirely approve of them becoming drinking buddies, and I think the most likely result would be Sven teaches Martin to be more of a letch, but it also reinforces the negative aspects of Sven's personality.  Which might make for good drama actually (how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?)

Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2010, 18:47
...how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?

Oh, that's the one thing I'd LOVE to know. Doubt Jeph would want to take us there, though.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Xenmaru00 on 19 Nov 2010, 18:53
we have to remember that Sven for the longest time was just a stereotypical "Male".  Decent looking, gets the ladies, screws them, dumps them, moves on.  Sven himself doesnt seem to have many "problems" at all.  And, after dealing with Faye, he's come to realize he's a dick, and wants to change.  And we're seeing him do so.  It's Dora with all the head problems.  Not to say Sven may not have any, in fact he might, and it might even be the reason why he was such a douche for so long.  But his arent like Dora's, which stops him from being able to pursue a relationship.

In fact he even noted these things after one specific encounter (usually how these matters resolve themselves), and is making moves to fix them.  It just so happens that the "target" of his change, has moved on.  Whether this will cause him to revert, or if he'll just keep pushing for the sake of finding another, or even holding out for her, is unknown.  but safe to say Sven is in no way "fucked up".  And we know where Dora's head problems came from.  Now she just needs to focus on that and resolve them.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: eschaton on 19 Nov 2010, 19:03
we have to remember that Sven for the longest time was just a stereotypical "Male".  Decent looking, gets the ladies, screws them, dumps them, moves on.  Sven himself doesnt seem to have many "problems" at all.  And, after dealing with Faye, he's come to realize he's a dick, and wants to change.  And we're seeing him do so.  It's Dora with all the head problems.  Not to say Sven may not have any, in fact he might, and it might even be the reason why he was such a douche for so long.  But his arent like Dora's, which stops him from being able to pursue a relationship.

In fact he even noted these things after one specific encounter (usually how these matters resolve themselves), and is making moves to fix them.  It just so happens that the "target" of his change, has moved on.  Whether this will cause him to revert, or if he'll just keep pushing for the sake of finding another, or even holding out for her, is unknown.  but safe to say Sven is in no way "fucked up".  And we know where Dora's head problems came from.  Now she just needs to focus on that and resolve them.

While you might be correct that Seven had no "issues" insofar as he was happy, he does indeed have "relationship issues" insofar as his historically dickish behavior has led to him not having a good long-term track record with women.  Mind you, that never bothered him much until now, so he didn't put much focus on it.  But given both he and Dora have such issues with relationships suggests that even though their parents seem to still be happily married, something wasn't okay in the Bianchi household. 

Absolutely agreed Sven is handling it more maturely, but he's older then the rest of the cast (like 32 or so right?).  At that age, you really should start getting your shit together. 
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Jonesy on 19 Nov 2010, 19:23
Marten strikes me as too passive...  He was unhappy in the relationship but he got dumped as opposed to confronting Dora and dumping her or at least confronting their issues. Look at Steve, he has been dumped twice and he still picks himself up and gets back to things.


I'm willing to grant that Marten could have done more to push Dora to get the help she needed to deal with her issues.  But I don't think you can argue that he was unhappy in the relationship.  There were unhappy moments in the relationship, to be sure, but on the whole Dora and Marten made each other happy.  The face in the last panel of 1799 is not the face of a man who's been dumped from a relationship he wanted to get out of.

I also don't see what parallel you're trying to draw with Steve.  If your argument is that he rebounds quickly from being dumped - well, Marten just got dumped.  We don't know yet how long he'll take to pick himself up and get back to normal.

My point is that Steve is proactive. When Steve met a girl he liked at a restaurant, he asked her out. When he met Meena and was entranced, he asked her out. Marten mooned over Faye for several months and the talk was prompted by Faye not by Marten. Dora came on to Marten, not the other way around. I'm not saying that Steve is perfect, but he takes the initiative. I can't recall Marten ever doing that.

With respect to Sven, he is the anti-Dora. He has never struggled for anything, nor has he ever had to work for anything. I would argue that a certain amount of adversity is necessary for character development. Until Faye, he never cared one way or the other. He was never intentionally cruel, but rather careless with others. He never had to wonder if a girl he liked was interested in him. He could get laid whenever he wanted with a choice girl. He never had to worry about money. He has a job that he barely works at, that pays him decently, and lets him do whatever he wants. He doesn't have to get up in the mornings, go to work, struggle to get through the day, and come home to crash. I think that Faye is the first girl that dumped him. I suspect that if I had his luck with women and his ability to write shitty country songs and get paid, I would be a pothead who spent all day playing video games and all night at the bars.

I wonder if Marten is going to go on a journey like Steve and Will did?

Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Carl-E on 19 Nov 2010, 19:45
...how did the Bianchi parents raise two children who are so fucked up?

Oh, that's the one thing I'd LOVE to know. Doubt Jeph would want to take us there, though.

Already has.  They raised two fucked up children by being too fucked up themselves.  I've only known a few pot smokers who stuck with it past the point of having kids, but it gets messy.  Kids need your full attention for the first several years, and you need to be alert and on your toes.  Doin' weed just isn't conducive to that.  You're just not there for them the way they need you to be! 
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Superkid11 on 19 Nov 2010, 19:54
At least their mom apparently didn't smoke while she was pregnant. Otherwise one of them would have been born a diabolical ambiguously gay mastermind.
Title: Sven
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2010, 20:31
Sven is 28.

Freud defined sanity as the ability to love and to work. Sven's admitted he doesn't know how to have a relationship. Sven makes a living, but it doesn't seem to involve work. A music student was shocked at how little he does.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Lost Coastlines on 19 Nov 2010, 20:40
Cosette if she was single and less accident-prone.  Neither of them make enough to cover her hospital bills once she graduates.

Really though, she was assertive enough to ask him out, but awkward enough to be mortified that he had a girlfriend.  She was excited about Steve when Marten gave her his picture, so she probably didn't mope about it too long.  That could be a good influence on him.  She is as annoyed by irrational jealousy as he is, and they seemed to have some good laughs together at Steve's expense.  Too bad she didn't wait a little longer to make her move.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Nov 2010, 22:02
Steve's relationships don't seem to last very long ...
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 20 Nov 2010, 05:47
You know what? I think I'm gonna stop speculating, because Jeph is gonna do whatever he wants.

Yeah, I'm sitting here questioning his decision to send Winona Ryder to the funny farm, but he could legitimately write Dora out of the script and keep COD going (One word: Hannelore).

And I have a feeling Marten isn't going to be wanting to date anyone again for a while.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Varian7 on 20 Nov 2010, 08:12
I agree, I don't see Marten dating anyone again for a fairly long time.  He's going to need to let this heal.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Penquin47 on 20 Nov 2010, 10:44
Sven is at least 29, probably 30 by now.  Dora identified herself as 28 when Faye called her "Mrs. Robinson", and told Sven that she "doesn't care if he's only a year older than her, it's still creepy" for him to date her friends.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Nov 2010, 11:07
Dora said she was twenty-six. Sven's had a birthday since, because he told Faye he's 28 in the recent conversation about relationships.

EDIT: removed a weird speculation that didn't meet current forum rules.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: raoullefere on 30 Nov 2010, 12:05
He just needs someone who's actually strong, self-assured and outgoing... since this seems to be who he's attracted to, but I don't think has really found in the main cast. Basically Hetero-Tai.
Great googly moogly, no! Anyway, I'm not sure if Hetero-Tai could exist. I think there's something intrinsic about her lesbianism to her.

Okay, that doesn't make sense when I wrote it down, but if you think about it a little while, it may.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Totchos on 03 Dec 2010, 08:29
I had the Marten/Marigold thought earlier this week.  Marten using her as a substitute for Faye and Marigold subbing him for Angus, sort of a dual rebound situation.  Then Marten would be free to meet a Smif hottie and Marigold could hook up with her Alliance stalker.  Meanwhile Dora hooks up with Tai's entire dorm.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Carl-E on 03 Dec 2010, 09:48
Just hold that thought, OK?  You're not the first, and it's been pretty well refudiated.. repuddledated... dicombibulatioed... put down. 
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Wiregeek on 03 Dec 2010, 09:59
Quote
Meanwhile Dora hooks up with Tai's entire dorm.

I don't know whether I'd pay more to have video of that, or to have the !@#%#%^ house to myself for an evening to watch it.

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Merrick on 07 Jan 2011, 09:25
Dora + EVERYONE.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Jan 2011, 09:33
Leave it.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Odin on 07 Jan 2011, 11:50
Pizza girl.

You mean Penelope?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Jan 2011, 12:32
But is she the same?  It was never resolved (though of course it was only a joke from the start).
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Odin on 07 Jan 2011, 12:40
That was kind of the point.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jan 2011, 13:40
Leave it.

One down, one to go, another town and one more show?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: themacnut on 09 Jan 2011, 10:30

Personally, I think that if you really want Marten to see growth, the last thing he should do is date anyone else seriously for at least 500 strips.  Casual hookups would be great though.  Yes, I know they don't jibe well with his character, but it's part of growing as a person.  Although Marten came into the series with a long dry spell, he seems to be a serial monogamist, and he really should be more proactive with dating and more picky - not just fall into a relationship with the first woman who comes his way.  I think the most major realization for his character would be if he discovers that with a bit more of a self-assured attitude, he'd have women throwing themselves at him.  I don't see him turning himself into some David DeAngelo acolyte, but some half-measures in those directions would be a big step up for him. 


I doubt very much Faye would approve of Marten having casual hookups. She strongly dislikes guys who do that, and her experience with Sven reinforces that. The first time she sees a half-naked girl walk out of Marten's room and leave the next morning never to be heard from again, she'll be the one speaking in eldrich tongues. Sure, Marten could disregard her opinion and keep on having hookups, but it would cause a serious strain in their friendship, and possibly end it. Suffice it to say, Faye's not going to like Casual Hookup Marten much at all.

And anyway, I think that's all totally outside Marten's character anyway, he's too much of a Go Along to Get Along kinda guy, and doesn't like casual hookups himself. I doubt he'd be interested in learning how to do them, even if it did ultimately give him more choice in women.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 09 Jan 2011, 10:50
The nearest Marten is capable of coming to a Scott Pilgrim "Let's have sex, casual sex!"  moment was shown here (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=514).
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: themacnut on 09 Jan 2011, 14:11
Yep that's what I was thinking about, I knew there was a comic about it. Casual hookups are just not Marten's style, and most likely never will be.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jan 2011, 16:15
Further evidence of that is Marten's reaction when Sven offered to find him a slut.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Boomslang on 09 Jan 2011, 16:42
Well, all of the evidence really points to Marten choosing to not engage in casual sex.

He's probably quite capable of picking up a girl successfully, it's just he doesn't want the result. And that could change, although it's not likely. Additionally, I think even if he did want casual sex, sleeping with a girl he was introduced to as Sven's 'sloppy seconds' wouldn't be something he'd find acceptable, even if he would have liked the girl had they met under different circumstances.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jan 2011, 20:30
Marten seems to have some shyness and foot-in-mouth problems when it comes to the ladies. Consider strips 3-4, or his attempt to pick up Genevieve (though admittedly that one wasn't wholehearted).
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Bass Lizard on 09 Jan 2011, 22:11
Marten's just too shy period. For a guy who has a mom in the sex industry, Marten is easily the most inhibited guy ever. He's got to way losen up. When was the last time he's ever goofed off with some guy friends of his? And by guy friends, I mean his only guy friend. I agree with neither Marten or ( as hot as DoraXTai is. sigh) Doar should be dating anyone right now. And hook-ups don't really seem like either of there styles. But some bonding with same-gender friends seems to be in order.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Sorflakne on 09 Jan 2011, 23:20
I refrained from posting something earlier, but after reading the new posts since I last looked at this, I'm just gonna ask one thing:

Why can't Marten just stay single for awhile?  Or hell, why can't he just stay single for the rest of the comic?

Ok, that was two things, but the point stands in that why does he have to get back in a relationship with someone so soon, regardless of who it is?  Maybe it would be better if he stayed single.  Think about it:  Of the main cast girls currently in the comic, can you honestly see him hooking up with one of them.  No, ask yourself before you answer. 

-Faye?  She's with Angus, and still has her issues she's working on.
-Dora?  No.  Doesn't need to be explained.
-Marigold?  While single, she's more than likely still burned over Angus rejecting her.  And her and Dale's 'relationship' works as it is.  There's no need for a third wheel.
-Hanners?  She's a sweet girl and has made a huge leap in character development ever since she was introduced (wtb her original hairstyle back pl0x), but if you sit down and think about it, she and Marten would never work out.  I'm sorry, I just can't see them working out.
-Tai?  It'd be more funny than anything, but the chances of it are zero.
-Momo?  She's pretty much set on Sven.  (ok, Pintsize made me put her on the list)
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 09 Jan 2011, 23:50
Also, people sometimes forget how slowly the comic moves; if it takes Marten a month or so to decide how to proceed (which is quick enough after being dumped, in all honesty), that could be the better part of a year in our time.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jan 2011, 10:21
Agreed about Marten staying single. There's only one person who might even be suitable and she may be too speculative to mention, in addition to not being a regular.

Marten hasn't been too successful in going out and finding romantic partners in our observation, and according to the conversations with Steve it's a long-running problem.

Time off from worrying about women might be good for him: a chance to take stock, pause and reflect.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jan 2011, 11:25
Opportunity for Moar Deathmøle, perhaps?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jan 2011, 12:38
I was just thinking that. Faye needed a creative outlet, likely Marten does too. The discipline of practicing regularly would keep him from falling into a rut.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Bass Lizard on 10 Jan 2011, 19:46
I was just thinking that. Faye needed a creative outlet, likely Marten does too. The discipline of practicing regularly would keep him from falling into a rut.

If experince and Jack Black have taught me anything, is that there's no relationship blues that can't be solved by loud, nasty RAWK! :-D

Seriously, though, I'm so for a return of Deathmole!
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Tabfan on 11 Jan 2011, 01:10
I agree, I don't see Marten dating anyone again for a fairly long time.  He's going to need to let this heal.

Agreed.  It's going to take him at least a few months of in-comic time(which translates to a good year or two in real time) before he'll be ready for any sort of relationship again.  And I imagine when he does, it will either be with a completely new character, like Cosette was for Steve, or an old familiar face we haven't seen in a while, like the cute blonde who used to work at CoD(before she was tragically devoured by an Allosaurus ;).
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: tomart on 11 Jan 2011, 10:54
Before you react to my thoughts here, AnAverageWriter made some good points on Marten-Marigold in the WCT; I haven't seen attraction between them, and it might work better in Real Life than in QC, but consider:
 Marten using [Marigold] as a substitute for Faye and Marigold subbing him for Angus, sort of a dual rebound situation.  Then Marten would be free to meet a Smif hottie and Marigold could hook up with her Alliance stalker.  
I totally disagree that Mari should hook up with Dale, but hey, Marten is surrounded EVERY DAY with Smif hotties, one already asked him out.  I ask you, How much better of a place to meet dateable women IS there??  
There's gotta be years  worth of awkward meetings, almost-hookups, unresolved sexual tension, just in Marten's everyday job!  (I'm thinking of Arthur Depins' Chasse a l'Homme.)
   [ There's a great pic to insert here, how do i do that? ]
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Carl-E on 11 Jan 2011, 13:55
When you're in the editor, there's an "Insert Image" button.  You put the website address of your pic between the "immage" tags, like so;

Code: [Select]
[img]http://www.whateveryourimageadressis.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: La Masquerade on 12 Jan 2011, 19:55
Pizza girl.


My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Odin on 14 Jan 2011, 08:44
Opportunity for Moar Deathmøle, perhaps?

The way the comic is going, if Jeph brought out more Deathmøle time it'd just be to show Marten being kicked out by the other members because they were tired of him moping over Dora dumping him.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Nick and Marla on 20 Jan 2011, 05:34
On a more stupid note-

Dora: Oh hey where's Marten?

Somebody else who doesn't matter for this: Oh, he and Hannelore are looking for a new coffee shop.

Dora: That gosh-darned tramp!

Everyone else: Hey, Hannelore is teh coolz, don't be hating.

Everyone shuns Dora for being a bitch, she is written out of the story, I'm happy.



....Ok, mayyyybe this won't happen, but damn do I hate Dora.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: lizbethas on 20 Jan 2011, 09:37
I know we all think Marten isn't the casual sex "type" but why not have a crazy hot vixen come and seduce him. I think it would stir things up. I mean, obviously she would have to be carefully designed so as to not be too much like his mom, cuz he would never go for that, but maybe some kind of suicide girl, sexy librarian type who lusts after the boy?
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Jan 2011, 10:44
I don't think Jeph is into that kind of fanservice in the comic.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: Odin on 21 Jan 2011, 03:33
Not to mention it would run completely counter to Marten being the butt of all misfortune in the comic.
Title: Re: More than "NOT DORA"
Post by: htmlcoderexe on 16 Mar 2011, 15:41
I just realized. The eldritch speech of Hanners and Dora... it was foreshadowing.

After the breakup, Marten will eventually come to see his true love....
Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞


To be honest, I've been expecting Z̴̞͔̦̲͈ͣ̓ͅA̸̛̼̲̲̙̦ͭ̑̋̀L̶̯͉͒̈ͨ́̚͠G̯̞͊͊̒͝O̶̺̩̹ͧ͗ͥ̍͂̾͞  for some time (I think I even pointed out the similarities in whichever thread that happened in).


He comes!

(I would be highly entertained by Jeph doing a non-canon 'Zalgo' strip. I've always gotten a hoot out of those.)
Oh god, me too. We all know he could really pull it off. ... and really, I'm surprised there aren't more zalgo edits of QC comics anyway. I've found a total of one. (http://htmlcoderexe.deviantart.com/art/Questionable-Content-Zalgo-174974354) Given the major edits are of Garfield and CAD, I'm guessing most people only do zalgo edits of comics they don't like. (I have no opinion of either since I don't read them) No reason for that though, QC is full of comics that would make good Zalgo edits. Including the aforemented eldritch speech one.

Hey, sorry for necroing the thread, but as the one who made the mentioned Z̴͈̻͔͆͒ͥͭͣ̃A̧͈͖̞͈̙͈̫̱̓ͪ̉ͯ̃ͦͩ̀̚L̸͓̙̺̱͛̄͊́͗̇ͬ͘G̡̩͚̗̭̻͉̲ͭ̔͂͐͂̓ͫȮ͎̼̟̲̰̯̇̇́͛̕͝͞ edit, I wanted to say I really like QC! So the rule "you don't like it, you Zalgo it" doesn't always work.