Second, I may have the same expectation for this as for Girl Genius.
You want Marten to lock down the friggin' castle already, then have a threesome with Faye and Dora?
Marigold completes the new Cataclysm zones and impatiently waits for Dale.
You want Marten to lock down the friggin' castle already, then have a threesome with Faye and Dora?That...
Would...
BE AWESOME!
Ahem! Too far out of character: 600 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=600), 1039 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1039).
Congratulations, you win a million Moxanna points. ;)Ahem! Too far out of character: 600 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=600), 1039 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1039).
He doesn't have a castle, either.
Sometimes you ride the bus, sometimes the bus rides you...Some days you're the monkey, some days you're the football.
Wait, what?
Mojo, it's wrong because not only would she dating the brother of her son's ex, but probably might even send Dora over the edge, seeing how it would be not only someone she has admitted to masturbating to, having sex with Sven but the mother of her ex. There's a complicated rule somewhere, I know it.I think the rule you are looking for is rudeness. I think it would be impolite for Marten's mom to sleep with her son's ex's brother.
Ok, why would it be wrong, based on her age (the theory of relativity prevents her seducing him for other, more salient reasons)? I'm in my 40s now, and I'm constantly being hit on and flirted with by 20-30 year-olds. Of course, I don't date any of them, but why would it be wrong if I did (or Veronica did with Sven)?
I'm getting quite curious about Dora, being as she hasn't made an appearance in nearly 20 episodes.episodes :psyduck:
In the meantime, I'd quite like to see another excursion out of Northampton like we did with Faye. Something like a Marten & Tai roadtrip could be entertaining, getting to see characters operating out of their sphere of familiarity.
an incident, scene, etc., within a narrative, usually fully developed and either integrated within the main story or digressing from it.Because there's only one at most to me- Marten meets his mom. That sense of the word is loose, of course, but 20 strips =/= 20 episodes just because they all end with puns. They're still the same scene/event/quantum entanglement. When you're talking about 20 strips, say 20 strips, don't use an inherently ambiguous term.
Seems to reasonably describe each new day, strip or page of QC that gets published. Why do you feel that it's inappropriate?
I have no observational/analytical skills.
Because there's only one at most to me- Marten meets his mom. That sense of the word is loose, of course, but 20 strips =/= 20 episodes just because they all end with puns. They're still the same scene/event/quantum entanglement. When you're talking about 20 strips, say 20 strips, don't use an inherently ambiguous term.
The computer tower on the cover is a pretty solid indicator of the second choice.Uh, I cant see any computer tower on the cover, but thanks.
Also, it's a magazine.
You want Marten to lock down the friggin' castle already, then have a threesome with Faye and Dora?That...
Would...
BE AWESOME!
Ahem! Too far out of character: 600 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=600), 1039 (http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=1039).
That would be the ultimate "get back at your ex" move in the history of "get back of your exes".
He's gonna explode on someone, and then everything will be coated in the shit furnished by the fan.
Mindfucking Dora is just one of the many reasons Sven might not want to sleep with Veronica....
(http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436) (to be more specific, Veronica's line in the first panel of linked comic)
Actually I don't think he will explode. Marten in obviously not a very happy bunny at the moment but his
reaction is to just go have a time out.
And the hits just keep on coming...Why? It's not like Marten just broke up with him. Or that Veronica knew he was related to Dora until he told her.
It's official.
I no longer like Marten's mom.
Everyone knows Sven is hot, you don't need to comment, especially with Marten right there.
Not cool.
Why? It's not like Marten just broke up with him. Or that Veronica knew he was related to Dora until he told her.
Heck, I don't think Miss Reed even knew Dora had any siblings, never mind a half-brother that looks nothing like her.
And does it look like Tai is trying to be supportive of Marten or trying to keep him from walking away by holding his wrist?
And you'd think Sven would have recognized her...
"Personal computer whore"It has a sister publication: "Mac Prostitute"
And of course there's the brother publication, "Linux Gigolo"."Personal computer whore"It has a sister publication: "Mac Prostitute"
Because Marten would not know how to function at all unless he's being mistreated by a skinny dark haired woman...
That's not entirely fair. He can function just fine while being mistreated by curvy dark-haired women, too :wink:
Hannelore wouldn't let him. She'd go postal on him.
Mindfucking Dora is just one of the many reasons Sven might not want to sleep with Veronica....
(http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436) (to be more specific, Veronica's line in the first panel of linked comic)
Why do posters keep assuming that Martin is a pent up ball of rage, a bomb that's going to just explode? That's not who Martin is. He is not going to "blow up", people! If things get too horrid, his ultimate reaction is to vanish into his room. That's as bad as that bad-boy gets, folks.
Who is the "she" Veronica is talking about in the first panel?
Mindfucking Dora is just one of the many reasons Sven might not want to sleep with Veronica....
(http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436) (to be more specific, Veronica's line in the first panel of linked comic)
Dear Sweet Buddha...when you put it in THAT context...with how similar they look... :psyduck: Dora would probably call to the therapist and schedule an emergency appointment!
in short: You are an evil, evil man Dug.
Mindfucking Dora is just one of the many reasons Sven might not want to sleep with Veronica....
(http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=436) (to be more specific, Veronica's line in the first panel of linked comic)
Dear Sweet Buddha...when you put it in THAT context...with how similar they look... :psyduck: Dora would probably call to the therapist and schedule an emergency appointment!
in short: You are an evil, evil man Dug.
*tilks cowboy hat* You mean "evil, evil lady." *spits into spittoon* *walks out of the saloon*
I don't know. Anyway, I'm a woman.
Ze plot, eet theeckens! :psyduck:
Marten's mom doesn't look very angry in this comic, even though she's going to see Dora. Could this mean that she's not going to visit horrible retribution on Dora for hurting Marten?
Yep, Pen-Pen is officially fired for that little stunt.
That all depends on whether she intends going B'Elanna on Dora's ass.
Ze plot, eet theeckens! :psyduck:
Marten's mom doesn't look very angry in this comic, even though she's going to see Dora. Could this mean that she's not going to visit horrible retribution on Dora for hurting Marten?
Captain, I'm detecting a Bird of Prey decloaking off the port bow!QC, now with 20% more Star Trek references.
SHIELDS UP!!!***** YELLOW ALERT ***** YELLOW ALERT ***** YELLOW ALERT
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shit
*Dramatic sustained Violin note*
It would be funny if tomorrow there was a Yelling Bird strip. Everyone would be pissed.Except you, apparently.
It would be funny if tomorrow there was a Yelling Bird strip. Everyone would be pissed.Except you, apparently.
Slightly off-topic, I'm always voting for more Pintsize. The ongoing drama is OK, but sometimes I miss the days of completely random and entertaining dialog (hanging out at CoD or someone's apartment with minimal continuity).
Jeph has only done that without an obvious reason when ill, which naturally would not be funny.No, I can actually see a Yelling Bird strip tomorrow:
It's quite possible she faked the call. Could've said her phone was on vibrate. Note how she's looking back in the restauant in panel 2 like she's making sure no one sees what she's doing.Hmmm... Vibrate usually isn't inaudible, especially at close range. If I'd been doing it... I'd have set up a script, run from cron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron), to send a text to my phone, and set the alert tone to be the same as my ring-tone. Or, better and more flexible, set things up so that she could send a text to a suitable address, that would trigger a message back to her after a delay. Or, if she's got a suitable phone (and it certainly looks big enough), just write an app to sound the ring-tone after a suitable delay.
Hm. Or her phone has a "fake call" option. My phone does, and it's a really, really cheap mobile.Is it a Samsung? After I made my post above, I googled "fake call app" and there are many available. Obviously it is a feature much in demand. Years ago, I recall a Dilbert strip in which Wally had built a fake pager to get him out of meetings, conversations, work etc. Life imitates art.
Marten's mom doesn't look very angry in this comic, even though she's going to see Dora. Could this mean that she's not going to visit horrible retribution on Dora for hurting Marten?
...just write an app to sound the ring-tone after a suitable delay.
Hm. Or her phone has a "fake call" option. My phone does, and it's a really, really cheap mobile.Is it a Samsung? After I made my post above, I googled "fake call app" and there are many available. Obviously it is a feature much in demand. Years ago, I recall a Dilbert strip in which Wally had built a fake pager to get him out of meetings, conversations, work etc. Life imitates art.
Ze plot, eet theeckens! :psyduck:
Marten's mom doesn't look very angry in this comic, even though she's going to see Dora. Could this mean that she's not going to visit horrible retribution on Dora for hurting Marten?
Veronica looks more...bothered and unsteady than predatory, though.
Ze plot, eet theeckens! :psyduck:
Marten's mom doesn't look very angry in this comic, even though she's going to see Dora. Could this mean that she's not going to visit horrible retribution on Dora for hurting Marten?
Clearly she plans to lull her into a false sense of security.
Devious!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure she faked the call. Note the phone's not vibrating or making any sort of tone.
That's not the funny part. The funny part is "I TOLD YOU TO SAY I WAS IN CANADA".:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Like maybe an "alarm" function?LOL! Yeah... I've never used my alarm function to play anything other than a loud beeping, but on inspection I find it can be set to play a ring-tone, so... :-P
Quite. Could it be that she simply wants to hear Dora's side of the story? So that she gets a better understanding on what went wrong. And may then be better placed to help her son?
"You, young lady, hurt my son. You must make amends, or I will inflict incredible pain and suffering on you."'Ello. My name is Veronica Reed. You hurt my son. Prepare to die.
I still remember Veronica saying to Dora that she will introduce
her in to a new realm of pain and suffering.
I still remember Veronica saying to Dora that she will introduce
her in to a new realm of pain and suffering.
Except, of course, she said it to Faye, not Dora.
Well here I am, thinking Ms. Reed has a dastardly plan that's about to unfold, and then she just walks over to CoD.I was as surprised as you.
Waffles win.
Why do Waffles win ?
Maybe Veronica just has a business proposition for Dora.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=975
Waffles win.
Why do Waffles win ?
While everyone is seemingly expecting massive violence and/or somthing related to Ms Reed's dayjob, I'm anticipating a nice rational discussion (with some additional off-screen uncomfortableness) like adults.Me too. Marten's mom is a classy chick in my opinion, I doubt she'd go and punch Dora or anything like that.
While everyone is seemingly expecting massive violence and/or somthing related to Ms Reed's dayjob, I'm anticipating a nice rational discussion (with some additional off-screen uncomfortableness) like adults.
...just write an app to sound the ring-tone after a suitable delay.
What if her phone had a function to ring at a pre-determined time.
Like maybe an "alarm" function?
and start balling her eyes outNow there's a vivid mental picture.
... as a look of righteous murderous rage screaming "BABY BEGS NOW!!!"...
Hanners to meet someone with a nose ring and freak out, I am for it.
Marigold would look good in a collar - so would Hanners.
*Walks off whistling innocently*
and start balling her eyes outNow there's a vivid mental picture.
realized it's highly unlikely we're going to see Dora chained to a wall, covered in bruises and beat to heck, with Veronica standing nearby, in full regalia, brandishing a bullwhip with a frayed tip as well as a look of righteous murderous rage screaming "BABY BEGS NOW!!!"...
...at least not before Friday.
... as a look of righteous murderous rage screaming "BABY BEGS NOW!!!"...
http://superstupor.com/sust12272007.shtml (http://superstupor.com/sust12272007.shtml)? Or is that more of a well-traveled meme than I've seen? :-D
Dora's going to have some sort of epiphany and start balling her eyes out
Dora's going to have some sort of epiphany and start balling her eyes out
Like, with a melon baller, or what?
Sorry, couldn't resist. :-P
So would Dora be using the melon baller on her own eyes or Veronica's?
Or Penelope's?
And does that mean we have to list the melon baller with the broadswarod et. al. when listing the shop's weapons inventory?
Dora getting a hug from Veronica?
Cue Marten walking by the window in 3...2...
But ... but ... Hanners !Waffles win.
Why do Waffles win ?
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=510
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=524
...that's why. :-D
Dora getting a hug from Veronica?
Cue Marten walking by the window in 3...2...
Nah, he's still at the restaurant.
Marigold would look good in a collar - so would Hanners.
*Walks off whistling innocently*
Dora getting a hug from Veronica?
Cue Marten walking by the window in 3...2...
As to the comic it is kind of hilarious how Dora seems to expect a violent retribution that no one is giving her. Everyone is instead being so supportive and kind about it that it's freaking her out. Meanwhile, everyone is telling Marten to suck it up, kid, while he fishes for hugs.
As to the comic it is kind of hilarious how Dora seems to expect a violent retribution that no one is giving her. Everyone is instead being so supportive and kind about it that it's freaking her out. Meanwhile, everyone is telling Marten to suck it up, kid, while he fishes for hugs.
Dora getting a hug from Veronica?
Cue Marten walking by the window in 3...2...
Just like that one scene in Two and a Half Men.
As to the comic it is kind of hilarious how Dora seems to expect a violent retribution that no one is giving her. Everyone is instead being so supportive and kind about it that it's freaking her out. Meanwhile, everyone is telling Marten to suck it up, kid, while he fishes for hugs.Yeah, living up the gender stereotypes aren't we? The women is always the helpless damsel in distress.
The Chew Toy/Woobie is not allowed to get hugs. We may WANT him to get hugs, but him not getting them adds to his overall Woobieness.
I think it's more about what Marten doesn't want, first, he doesn't want to get pissed on on a regular basis by his social circle. And that's what's happening right now. He didn't want his relationship to end and he didn't want Dora to take the easy way of flight.
The Chew Toy/Woobie is not allowed to get hugs. We may WANT him to get hugs, but him not getting them adds to his overall Woobieness.
I think it's more being played for ironic humor, albeit in a very subtle way. Neither party is getting what they want. Dora wants her feelings of self-anger and guilt and such validated but she gets affection and understanding. Marten wants to be coddled and instead he gets tough love.
It's hard, Marten. Being a kid and growing up.
It's hard and nobody understands.
You'd think she'd be a bit better at "mean on demand" given her line of work. :evil:Indeed. Maybe too short a notice to put herself in the proper state of mind.
...I hope those people are happy with this mess. Me, I'd like dinner this time without a dessert, please.
I also think this echoes the early days of the comic, and may be a little teensy bit of Jeph giving people who complained about Dora and about Marty's relationship and his happiness their just desserts.
I kinda just want to see the entirety of Veronica's outfit. Some sort of mini with thigh-high boots of some kind? Yes, please!
That is just not right.
EDIT: Dear God, we're talking about her Boot Tops? <facepalm>
Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
Yes, how dare she break up with Marten rather than continuing a relationship that she felt she couldn't be secure in and she couldn't see through to the long-term without the fighting constantly happening. How dare she break up with Marten rather than making him go through her recovery with her, which could have resulted in a break-up anyway. How dare she spare him the stress. How dare she, that selfish bitch.
Am I getting the tone right?
I don't feel sorry for DoraThis sentence means I don't feel sympathy for the character in this instance. I did not call her a selfish bitch, nor did I particularly go out of my way to declare her a plague upon mankind. In fact, I didn't say anything about Dora, I simply said that I did not feel an emotion where I would want to give her a "break," as Americans put it.
it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support.Here we get into the emotional part. I find the support and sympathy she's getting by the metric ton to be aggravating, as I do not feel it is deserved. Why I feel it is undeserved, whatever her insecurities?
My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot.Here I explain why I feel this support is undeserved. Flimsy reasoning and insecurities do NOT make for adequate excuses. Your trollish (or fanboyish?) response to mine communicates clearly that you consider it sufficient, but do cite however many times Marten became jealous, tested his girlfriend, or otherwise reacted in an extreme manner. Marten was so loyal that he felt awful about the Hanner boob incident, even though it wasn't his fault. Dora felt insecure about Faye. Alright, fine. She felt insecure because Marten previously liked Faye. Ok, fine. ...so what? Marten did not cheat on her, did not do anything with Faye. They went out of their way to make her see nothing was happening or would happen. She let an insecurity define her. Very unhealthy, very inexcusable. If it was such a major issue she did not have the mental strength to overcome (to be honest, I don't think many of our lovable QC crew are very mentally strong, so no slap against Dora), then she should have sought some help long ago.
I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."This is me exploring how people are treating Marty. Marty responds to tough love much more passive aggressively than I would. I'm not saying he'll explode, but it's not having the desired effect because it's too soon for one, and for another, it takes too much for him to get angry.
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.What happened in my instance? My social circle split up very messily, one half with me, the other with her. As a writer, I understand that many writers put bits of themselves in their characters, and react very negatively to personal criticism of that character, as they feel it's aimed at them. However, Dora did something that is her own fault. She's an adult and she has not really faced any consequences for her action, which never should have happened in the first place. She's getting coddled, while the break up, her fault, has had more negative consequences on Marten than her. Her role and fault have been trivialized, minimized, swept under the rug.
Dora is probably in hell right now.
Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
Yes, how dare she break up with Marten rather than continuing a relationship that she felt she couldn't be secure in and she couldn't see through to the long-term without the fighting constantly happening. How dare she break up with Marten rather than making him go through her recovery with her, which could have resulted in a break-up anyway. How dare she spare him the stress. How dare she, that selfish bitch.
Am I getting the tone right?
Marten wants to the the pitied Noble Victim. A couple of his friends (I like Tai) know that's not what he needs.
Actually, when you think about it, this is worse punishment for Dora than if Veronica had walked in and pulled out the whips and chains.
Dora wants "reassurance" that This Is All Her Fault -- because that way she still gets to be in control (and control is a big thing with her, because if we can take Sven at face value after the Underpants Incident, our benighted barista was never really in control of a relationship until after ambushing Marten on the rooftop).
Okay, seriously, I don't think breaking up with Marten makes Dora an evil bitch, but can we not slap a halo on her either? She didn't break up with Marten to spare him stress, she broke up with him because she wanted to break the cycle where she drove herself crazy because of her issues, blew up at Marten and then felt like crap over it. That's not a bad thing, it was probably the right thing given her circumstances, but it's not a selfless motivation either.
What Marten almost certainly wants and needs right now is to feel in control of his life and destiny, and he's not getting any help there from anyone. What Dora hammered home, intentionally or not, is that what Marten wanted didn't matter. Dora made it clear that nothing Marten could have ever done would have changed that. What is his mom doing, this entire trip? Doing precisely what she knows Marten doesn't want her to do. Repeatedly, and without real cause.
At some point, Marten might just start agreeing with them that what he wants doesn't matter. And that's not a place you want to be in.
That is just not right.
Why do you think it's not right?
Breaking up with someone is commonly considered a bad thing. Expecting further backlash in the context of social polarization would seem to be fairly normal to me. I think it's part of how we're conditioned on social, moral and ethical transgressions.
I've been there. And--similarly as Nietzsche said--as you stare into that inky blackness, it stares right back into you.
I would hope that Marten does not get to be like that. One, he's got friends that will hopefully recognize the signs of someone that gets to be like that. Two, they interact on a regular enough cycle that it would get caught early. I've had similar goings-on, and now am a fairly cold fish. Marten shouldn't get that way. He'll muddle through.
Not every Domme has to have the heavy touch, though. I believe that the appropriate term is, "there's more than one way to skin a cat."
Am I getting the tone right?
<lots of stuff explaining his previous post, but there was one thing in here that cought my eye and really bothered me. And it was...Quote from: Black SwordMy ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot.Here I explain why I feel this support is undeserved. Flimsy reasoning and insecurities do NOT make for adequate excuses. Your trollish (or fanboyish?) response to mine communicates clearly that you consider it sufficient, but do cite however many times Marten became jealous, tested his girlfriend, or otherwise reacted in an extreme manner. Marten was so loyal that he felt awful about the Hanner boob incident, even though it wasn't his fault. Dora felt insecure about Faye. Alright, fine. She felt insecure because Marten previously liked Faye. Ok, fine. ...so what? Marten did not cheat on her, did not do anything with Faye. They went out of their way to make her see nothing was happening or would happen. She let an insecurity define her. Very unhealthy, very inexcusable. If it was such a major issue she did not have the mental strength to overcome (to be honest, I don't think many of our lovable QC crew are very mentally strong, so no slap against Dora), then she should have sought some help long ago.
The adult response would be for him to tell her that even if she's giving up on the relationship, he is not. It would be to tell her that while she desperately needs therapy and must get it, he will be there with her by her side, so they can work through the obstacles and challenges of their relationship together. Marten folds far too easily. He may be loyal to a fault, but he gives in and quits far too easily once rejection rears its ugly head.
I dunno, it's only registering an 8 on the sarcasmometer.Sarcasmometer FTW! I so wish I had one of those. With a dial that reads up to eleven, of course.
Not every Domme has to have the heavy touch, though. I believe that the appropriate term is, "there's more than one way to skin a cat."
Amusingly enough, the friend who introduced me to QC some weeks ago is a lifestyler Domme. :)
But I digress: you're absolutely right, and I hope my friend will chime in here with her own thoughts. Either way, I hope Marten's mom is about to flip things around after getting the 'be nice to Dora' part out of the way. What's the saying? Something like 'sweeten with honey before the sting?'
I dunno, it's only registering an 8 on the sarcasmometer.Sarcasmometer FTW! I so wish I had one of those. With a dial that reads up to eleven, of course.
I dunno, it's only registering an 8 on the sarcasmometer.Sarcasmometer FTW! I so wish I had one of those. With a dial that reads up to eleven, of course.
I built one, it goes over 9,000.
Little fun/fantasy world/humerous Webcomic she might be interested in http://collar6.com/ :-D
Little fun/fantasy world/humerous Webcomic she might be interested in http://collar6.com/ :-D
And: http://bdsmbadadvice.com/?p=17
Damn those Stormtrooper fetishists!! Sexualizing the destruction of Alderaan!!
On a side note, so much for, "...if you hurt my boy I will introduce you to a whole new realm of pain and suffering. We're talkin' stuff that would make Hieronymus Bosch shit his britches, capisce?"
I'm a bit disappointed, really. No Domme I know would be so... understanding. Not vindictive, mind you, but certainly much more "wtf is wrong with you two?"
Odd how the first thing Marten thinks of after finding out about his mother's visit is if there's blood under her nails. Does this mean she's done this kind of thing before?
I love you.Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
Yes, how dare she break up with Marten rather than continuing a relationship that she felt she couldn't be secure in and she couldn't see through to the long-term without the fighting constantly happening. How dare she break up with Marten rather than making him go through her recovery with her, which could have resulted in a break-up anyway. How dare she spare him the stress. How dare she, that selfish bitch.
Am I getting the tone right?
The adult response would be for him to tell her that even if she's giving up on the relationship, he is not. It would be to tell her that while she desperately needs therapy and must get it, he will be there with her by her side, so they can work through the obstacles and challenges of their relationship together. Marten folds far too easily. He may be loyal to a fault, but he gives in and quits far too easily once rejection rears its ugly head.
That's what I was hoping would have happened as well. That's what would have happened had I been Marten.
But I'm not. And I think (after seeing how several of my relationships have gone) that it's a good thing.
perhaps Mrs Reed picked up on the fact that Dora wants to be punished, and is punishing her by not giver her what she wants?
screwing with her mind instead of physically or out loud or anything
i hope thats what it is, anyway!
* Has it been established in canon what Ms. Reed's first name is? Veronica Vance is a pseudonym, but is Veronica her actual first name?http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831
Perhaps if I was still in my 20s and just coming off what I thought at the time was a Tale of Tragic Love, I might be part of the pack after Dora with pitchforks and torches. But age lends --- well, at least the fatigue that simulates wisdom.
As to the comic it is kind of hilarious how Dora seems to expect a violent retribution that no one is giving her. Everyone is instead being so supportive and kind about it that it's freaking her out. Meanwhile, everyone is telling Marten to suck it up, kid, while he fishes for hugs.
This bugs me. Why does no one seem to care about Marten? I hate to get on the blame-train, but the break up was due to Dora's insecurities. She needs help, but he deserves sympathy too.
Hannelore can smell GSR. And I'm told silencers aren't nearly as effective in real life as in the movies.
* Has it been established in canon what Ms. Reed's first name is? Veronica Vance is a pseudonym, but is Veronica her actual first name?http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831
- She casually told people *point blank* that she didn't see the relationship lasting. (Not that she ever bothered to tell Marten or anything.)
When was that? (Not saying you're wrong, I just can't remember that happening).
And as for Marten;
"Ignition sequence start."
What Carl-E said above. Saving people from themselves sounds like a noble goal, but in practice it seldom works out for either the prospective rescuer or rescuee. Only Dora can choose to "save herself" here, and if both she and Marten are in a place to resume their relationship after she's saved herself, so much the better. But before then, it's best for both that they go their separate ways for now.
perhaps Mrs Reed picked up on the fact that Dora wants to be punished, and is punishing her by not giver her what she wants?
screwing with her mind instead of physically or out loud or anything
i hope thats what it is, anyway!
Dora stuff
Not necessarily true, Hannelore. Veronica could've just used a pistol with a silencer to take Dora out quickly and quietly.
Just sayin'
What Dora and Marten are doing is stupid and foolish. She broke up with him. He's going to find someone else. He's not going to just wait for her to get better, and then everything will be rainbows and unicorns. People either grow together, or they grow apart. Broken up like this? They will grow apart. Change and evolve separately from one another, instead of symbiotically.
So if Dora thinks that she can get some therapy and then come back, that everything will be perfectly fine and she can date Marten again, she's in for a very rude awakening. Dora took the easy, disturbingly naive and cowardly way out, and Marten let her.
She's the one that jumped him like a lioness on a lone gazelle. How is she going to feel seeing him with someone else? Knowing the first, perfect, decent guy that she dated -- the guy that truly loved and cared for her -- is loving and caring for some other girl? If we thought Faye had a hard time of it? Heh.
Argh. I can't seem to find the comic for it (I read through a whole bunch of them not too long ago, so it's kind of a blur.)Pix or it didn't happen!
I never condoned nor suggested saving her. But he can be there for her. It's her journey to take but he could be alongside her at the very least. This is the sort of thing you work out together. You don't just pack up your shit and bail.
Before we were married, my wife and I reached a point where we were starting to fight, tensions were rising; it seemed like we were on the verge of breaking up. But instead of doing the easy thing, we talked. We talked a lot. We opened up, we confessed, confided, we opened our minds, and our opinions, and our hearts. And hoo boy, were there some fights and some very uncomfortable conversations. We talked to others, sought help when we needed it, and overcame it. And from that, we were married a year or two later and couldn't be happier.
What Dora and Marten are doing is stupid and foolish. She broke up with him. He's going to find someone else. He's not going to just wait for her to get better, and then everything will be rainbows and unicorns. People either grow together, or they grow apart. Broken up like this? They will grow apart. Change and evolve separately from one another, instead of symbiotically.
So if Dora thinks that she can get some therapy and then come back, that everything will be perfectly fine and she can date Marten again, she's in for a very rude awakening. Dora took the easy, disturbingly naive and cowardly way out, and Marten let her.
She's the one that jumped him like a lioness on a lone gazelle. How is she going to feel seeing him with someone else? Knowing the first, perfect, decent guy that she dated -- the guy that truly loved and cared for her -- is loving and caring for some other girl? If we thought Faye had a hard time of it? Heh.
As for his mother's behavior, I've given up trying to figure out her angle. Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be helping him very much.
perhaps Mrs Reed picked up on the fact that Dora wants to be punished, and is punishing her by not giver her what she wants?
screwing with her mind instead of physically or out loud or anything
i hope thats what it is, anyway!
Old joke: A masochist is someone who says, "Hurt me" and a sadist is someone who says, "NO!"
(I said it was old, not funny.)
:-D
Pure and utter speculation, it definitely has to be waffles this time.
To my mind Veronica is now definitely out of order, though.
"...if his father weren't such a stick in the mud."
Uh-oh.
...I have a feeling that the worst thing Veronica could have done at that point was badmouth Dad.
:psyduck:
I have this sense that the next sweep of posts, from here to the weekend through, will be variations on how Veronica is a HUGE BITCH BLUH BLUH, combined with novellas detailing personal theorems about how Marty was treated as a child and possibly the invocation of child abuse, further opining on how Marten should explode into violent hipster rage, and hyperbole of all stripes. I really hope I'm not right.
That being said, dang, Veronica, you're certainly cracking the proverbial whip...but then again, being way rude to your mother in public is its own kind of out of order.
wordsNo, I'm not going to make a mega post again, I promised myself I would stop that.
Pure and utter speculation, it definitely has to be waffles this time.
I picked it this time too. It's bound to happen one of these days.
Unless that grown man needs to be broken out of sitting around and taking it.
I would have been more satisfied if Marten had gone ahead and raged at him mom, right there, instead of being a doormat yet again:
"NO! YOU apologize! You're fucking right I'm in a bad mood, and you DON'T get to hold being my mother over me like some fucking get-out-of-being-decent card! I feel like shit right now, and the last thing I needed was you coming here making things WORSE, HITTING on people for me, embarrassing me, making googly eyes at my friends and talking to my ex-girlfriend BEHIND MY BACK as though I couldn't handle it! You're goddamn right I'm in a bad mood, and you don't get to hold being my mother over me like some fucking get out of apologizing free card!"
ok, so Veronica goes out of her way to coddle Dora, and then is so poorly in tune with her son to see how far she is pushing him to the point of being obtuse. I mean, it's WEIRD for the mother of your ex-boyfriend to go out of her way to see you, behind her son's back, in order to tell you things are ok. It's weird, and it's especially weird since she and Dora had no relationship other than meeting once... before they were even dating.
Anyway, I am enjoying the comic, it's just frustrating to watch these developments at the moment.
I thought waffles was a euphemism for sex :? :-o :|Ugh. :oops:
I'm beginning to get the feeling that as readers, we aren't supposed to be sympathising with Marten. :/I'm pretty sure we're supposed to make up our own mind about the comic. :wink:
Certainly when a character acts in a way people don't like they're going to comment on it, but it would be cool if we could, you know, tone down some of the hyperbole that goes on around here.
I'm actually wracking my brain trying to figure out what people would think were good things for Mom to do, pre cracking the whip (this comic). I mean, all things considered, she's been balancing kindly mom with 'my boy is an adult' really well up until Marten's snarky horseshit set her off just now.Buying tickets before considering his feelings on the matter, or whether or not he'd want her around after a breakup. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1810)
I thought waffles was a euphemism for sex :? :-o :|
Think you might be on to something with that observation. Makes sense, when you think of it (well atleast to me).
It's also obvious from this page why he didn't try to fight for his relationship with Dora. Sure he may have been sick of her insecurities, but a bigger reason may be that he's been conditioned by Mother to do what women say. So if Dora says it's over, then it's over, no matter if he may think otherwise.
Certainly when a character acts in a way people don't like they're going to comment on it, but it would be cool if we could, you know, tone down some of the hyperbole that goes on around here.
.........snip.......
I'm actually wracking my brain trying to figure out what people would think were good things for Mom to do, pre cracking the whip (this comic). I mean, all things considered, she's been balancing kindly mom with 'my boy is an adult' really well up until Marten's snarky horseshit set her off just now.
The problem is that this isn't a humorous time for Marten. Humor can be worked in, sure (like it was in The Reveal at the beginning of the 500s), but it doesn't work when it's playing directly off of someone who just got hurt badly and keeps on flipping our empathy switches.
I mean, a lot of the time things are being used for humor, and are entirely artifice. I have a feeling much of Veronica's embarrassing behavior was supposed to be taken in a lighthearted, funny manner, and only now are we anywhere near Serious Business. Not everything is a federal fucking issue, guys.
linkage!I bow before your link-fu, and you put it much better than I could have.
(though I'm hoping that casual smart-assery will be tolerated :wink:)Me too, or I'm screwed.
(raises hand slightly)Omaha? *Googles* Oh. Wait, who mentioned suicide? And how long after someone suicides badly in Real Life can we mention it again? Because it might be a long wait...
Point of order?
Uhm, can we stop with the suicide references for a while?
After what happened in Omaha?
...Please?
What the hell happened in Omaha?Google happened.
(raises hand slightly)
Point of order?
Uhm, can we stop with the suicide references for a while?
After what happened in Omaha?
...Please?
No? Thousands of people commit suicide every single day (not to mention the atrocities that happen in Darfur), so stop being so sensitive. This is the Internet, grow thicker skin. I can guarantee you that somewhere else on the Internet someone is making a "tribute" video to the news footage of what happened in Omaha set to Benny Hill music.Most of them don't take others with them, though. and there are not 365,000+ suicides every year. Try tens of people.
As for the comic, I'm thinking Veronica is acting the way she is because she's operating on the assumption that Dora dumped Marten because of something stupid Marten did and not because of how things actually went down because she doesn't know how things actually went down.
She's thinking Dora dumped Marten based on a (correct) view of Marten's past behavior in relationships and doesn't know or realize Dora's own insecurities and the role they played this time. In this light, her actions towards Marten actually make some sense.
Googled Omaha suicide, first result was a suicide bombing in Kandahar. Methinks googles UK weighting is a little skewed. What happens when you google it in the US?This (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9809/captureou.png)
Most of them don't take others with them, though. and there are not 365,000+ suicides every year. Try tens of people.
Googled Omaha suicide, first result was a suicide bombing in Kandahar. Methinks googles UK weighting is a little skewed. What happens when you google it in the US?
Most of them don't take others with them, though. and there are not 365,000+ suicides every year. Try tens of people.
As for Veronica, no her actions do not make sense because she can ask him. I have no sympathy for mistakes made due to assumptions.
The world is a tad more than the Unites States, which is what I thought we were talking about (that is, American current events.) We have about 90 a day, or 'tens'. Still adds up to 33,000 and change over the course of a year, though.Most of them don't take others with them, though. and there are not 365,000+ suicides every year. Try tens of people.The World Health Organization estimate that 1,000,000 die from suicide every year.
That's a tad more than 365,000.
First result is a story about some kid in Omaha murdering the principal and vice principal of his school before committing suicide, sub-controversy about how he posted on Facebook saying he was going to do it and nobody reported it to authorities.Excellent job repeating what others have already provided. There's a reason that red text about posts since you started typing happens.
Actually, there is an average of 3,000 people committing suicide every day world wide (source (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2007/s16/en/index.html)).
So you're saying she never asked him why Dora dumped him during the phone call, eh?No I'm not. That would fall under "asking him", so unless he was extraordinarily unclear or only said "she dumped me", she would already know it was her issues that ended it. Or, she didn't ask him. Or someone is going to do a Phoenix Wright and object on the grounds of people rarely communicating effectively, to which I say that's why she asks who ended it and why before sneaking around behind his back based on old assumptions.
And here I thought at last he'd grown a pair by finally dumping Dora
The world is a tad more than the Unites States, which is what I thought we were talking about (that is, American current events.) We have about 90 a day, or 'tens'. Still adds up to 33,000 and change over the course of a year, though.
Excellent job repeating what others have already provided. There's a reason that red text about posts since you started typing happens.
Jesus, how many cringes does it take to get to the center of a Marten-Pop?
I can't take this lady anymore. She needs to be hit by a bus, so Marten can collect insurance money to pay for his lifetime of therapy. And here I thought at last he'd grown a pair by finally dumping Dora, (who also needs to get hit by a bus, or have some kind of Road To Damascus moment that turns her around 180 degrees.) No, he's still playing sub to every woman he meets, and Mommy Dearest is a complete HORROR, here.
And is happy about it.
And all the other girls are happy-happy giggle-giggle at watching the poor young man being TORTURED. That is the word, actually. It is literal emotional abuse.
Not even Faye gives him ANY slack, didja notice? All the women seem to get huggies and understanding when being completely outrageous, but a falling-down-DRUNK and obviously impotent and harmless Marten gets DECKED for making a stupid self-loathing pass at her.
You know why Veronica went to offer solidarity with Dora?
They're TWO OF A KIND!!!!
Marten needs to grow a mustache.
I don't think you mean "whore", in any sense of the word I know.Marten needs to grow a mustache.
Marten's moustache (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=623).
(raises hand slightly)
Point of order?
Uhm, can we stop with the suicide references for a while?
After what happened in Omaha?
...Please?
No? Thousands of people commit suicide every single day (not to mention the atrocities that happen in Darfur), so stop being so sensitive. This is the Internet, grow thicker skin. I can guarantee you that somewhere else on the Internet someone is making a "tribute" video to the news footage of what happened in Omaha set to Benny Hill music.
As for the comic, I'm thinking Veronica is acting the way she is because she's operating on the assumption that Dora dumped Marten because of something stupid Marten did and not because of how things actually went down because she doesn't know how things actually went down.
She's thinking Dora dumped Marten based on a (correct) view of Marten's past behavior in relationships and doesn't know or realize Dora's own insecurities and the role they played this time. In this light, her actions towards Marten actually make some sense.
I mean, Marten has done alright for himself, travelling across the country to a city where he had quite possibly only one friend, no job and not a lot of money, to having a nice place, a (usually) decent group of friends, a job which keeps him clothed and food on the table, he is a man and fully capable of taking care of himself.
Sure, a lot of it is funny and unexpected in terms of individual installments, but when you put them together it's one big, WTF?! :psyduck:
I wonder why Hanners has stayed mostly silent throughout all this? She's usually much quicker to point out bullshit.
That is not like Burt Reynolds at all. >:I
"NO! YOU apologize! You're goddamn right I'm in a bad mood, and you DON'T get to hold being my mother over me like some fucking get-out-of-being-decent card! I feel like shit right now, and the last thing I needed was you coming here making things WORSE...!
...it sure would be nice if Veronica actually got called on being pretty shitty to him ever since she arrived. Rants aside, I truly don't believe that being a parent gives someone the right to do pretty much anything she's done since she arrived...
...when a character's acting badly people are going to comment on it...
I mean, a lot of the time things are being used for humor, and are entirely artifice. I have a feeling much of Veronica's embarrassing behavior was supposed to be taken in a lighthearted, funny manner...
Now all he needs is a Starship.
She really is beginning to piss me off now. I don't know what her game is, or whether she's just disconnected in regards to Marten's feelings, but I swear to got someone needs to deck this woman before she leaves.
I hope it's Faye.
Back to the comic, Veronica is playing a very dangerous game and is likely to seriously damage her relationship with Marten. Yes, you should never talk to either of your parents like that, but at the same time there are certain limitations to how a parent should treat their own children. I mean, Marten has done alright for himself, travelling across the country to a city where he had quite possibly only one friend, no job and not a lot of money, to having a nice place, a (usually) decent group of friends, a job which keeps him clothed and food on the table, he is a man and fully capable of taking care of himself.
Pika_power: I think the problem there is that it's a very different animal, comforting your emotionally prickly, sullen son while allowing him his space as a fellow adult from telling his ex you're not going to hunt her down and that you think she's not a Huge Bitch BLUH BLUH. She's kind of trying to play it by ear, and Marten isn't making it easy for her.Show me one strip in the recent arc which includes her "allowing him space as a fellow adult". No, the nap doesn't count, as she just wanted him out of the way so she could show baby photos.
As an adult, it's his responsibility to say things like "No, mom, I can't handle lunch yet," or "I need a hug, mom, I'm not okay", and while I continue to think the whole embarrassment parade is harmless fun myself, (especially the Sven thing! All she saw was a chance to reenact The Graduate, she didn't know that was Dora's bro) even if you don't think so you must note he has put up all the resistance of a wet paper bag with snarky horseshit written on it. While we know that Mom clearly has authority still, and seems to wield it bluntly, it's not on her to know exactly what the boy is thinking or doing or wants.
I do think maybe Faye should've come to dinner. She might've kept things calmer all round, ironically.
Honestly, I can't make myself believe that someone working in a college library makes enough to live on. He might get an allowance from his mom, but still this kind of thing from Mrs. Reed is bang out of order.
I'd actually kind of like to see Hanners play Hannersmom with Marten's mom and give her a bit of a 'hey, really? wanna stop that now?' kind of talk
I was actually glad to see him get a little discipline. His whining was getting on my nerves.
Veronica knows perfectly well what she's doing goes against Marten's wishes, and she doesn't care.
I tend to think it's more that she's never really paid much attention to whether she's crossing Marten's boundaries.
Honestly, I can't make myself believe that someone working in a college library makes enough to live on. He might get an allowance from his mom, but still this kind of thing from Mrs. Reed is bang out of order.
The average college trained librarian earns about $50000 a year, so I'm guessing Marten earns about half of that (That probably includes the 30% increase he got when he and Dora walked in on the committee members in the copy room). Assuming Marten and Faye split the rent 50/50, he can probably just about get by if he doesn't buy many extragences (If I remember correctly, the last major thing he bought was the guitar with the bet he made with Beatrice). I mean, we never see him having any problem paying rent or buying food, or at least to the degree where he has to go to his parents for a handout.
I tend to think it's more that she's never really paid much attention to whether she's crossing Marten's boundaries. She's not stupid, but she's not being deliberately malicious -- she just doesn't really understand why he has boundaries and hang-ups that she does not.Unlike Dora, she recognises that he has boundaries. Dora isn't furtive about looking at his porn; she genuinely didn't see it as a problem. Ms. Reed acknowledges them as insecurities and problems, but she doesn't respect them. For example, the photos. She waits for him to sleep before doing it, and for the restaurant, she lies to his face before and after visiting. Those aren't the actions of someone who thinks Marten won't have a problem. They're the actions of someone who knows he has a problem with it, but does it anyway as soon as he's out of sight.
if memory serves his mom was supposedly coming to HELP him.
if memory serves his mom was supposedly coming to HELP him.
He did ask her not to - perhaps he already knew how it would go.
Sure, a lot of her actions were good teasing fun, but they got excessive in number and she was being overbearing. The moment Marten snaps though, Veronica gets upset immediately simply because he was angry at her. I think that's a little hypocritical...Much!
It seems like at times she treats him a little like an accessory to tease for her own enjoyment
Wow. Mommy issues, much.
this is getting bloody painful to read. I... for fucks sake this is just cruel. Marten's being dragged through the mud and ... his mom ... has humiliated him, lied to him, shown plenty of sympathy for Dora, and then the moment that Marten finally stands up to her she ... humiliates him again, all while knowing that he's at a low point.
Buying tickets before considering his feelings on the matter, or whether or not he'd want her around after a breakup. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1810)
Clearly embarrassing him in front of a cute waitress, despite his protests, the day after he's had a breakup and probably doesn't want to consider anything new. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1821)
Demonstrates either social unawareness, or has fun at Marten's expense, depending on how favourably you look at it. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1824)
Brings along baby pictures, which Marten has already expressed distaste for in the past. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1825) She waits for him to leave, because she knows he'd disapprove of her actions. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1827)
Touching raw nerves by openly flirting with Marten's ex's brother. Judging from his reaction here, going off to sleep is Marten's way of dealing with the stress from his mother. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831)
Again openly disregards his feelings and lies to him, so she can go off and comfort his ex. Completely inappropriate behaviour. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831) When he finds out, she denies it, and then, instead of apologising, defends her actions. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1834)
All of this not including the most recent strip, which we agree is out of line.
In contrast, she managed to have a nice conversation with Dora. So she succeeds at comforting the person who put her son in the state he's in. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1833)
Something along the lines of that with Marten is what she should do. But that's not what people are complaining about. The problem is what she shouldn't do is exactly what she has done. Namely, everything I've just linked to.
Nice Star Trek reference.
Well, I suppose the reason everyone is jumping on her is that she wasn't acting like this the last time she was in town.
Actually, last time she was in town, she also rode roughshod over his sensibilities by pulling a week-long sicky for him so that they could spend time together; but that time he wasn't in a bad place himself, so it didn't become an issue.
And the fact that she realizes that Dora might need some sympathy and comfort, but isn't giving Marten the same benefit, is pretty messed up. She's almost treating the situation like Dora is her daughter and Marten's the ex.
Sure am enjoying Emotional Bullying, the webcomic.
I highly doubt I'm the first to ask this, but what is Marten's real middle name??????Why do you assume he has one?
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
My entire point was that she was not viewing him as a full adult. She's acting as a mother, yes; a mother to a kid. She's supposed to be a mother to an adult, which is how we're expecting her to act.Buying tickets before considering his feelings on the matter, or whether or not he'd want her around after a breakup. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1810)This is a fairly typical mothering reaction, especially if she still doesn't quite view him as a full adult, or perhaps feels that he "isn't equipped to cope with this on his own." I don't think we've seen anything else similarly shattering happen to him yet, except possibly his getting fired (and he was thinking about quitting anyway, which softened that blow). In any event, I'd write this off as a typical "mother" reaction. Whether or not it's justified is, of course, a separate topic.
Evidence for such a theory must be provided. Without evidence, it's mere conjecture. It's possible that this is her way of snapping him out of it, and it may have worked before. However there nothing to suggest this is the case.Clearly embarrassing him in front of a cute waitress, despite his protests, the day after he's had a breakup and probably doesn't want to consider anything new. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1821)
We don't really know how Marten responds to bad breakups (the only other one we know about for sure is Vicki, whom he followed to Massachusetts for, and we never saw how he really dealt with that). Mrs. Reed, however, might, and if her experience is that Marten tends to descend into a funk, then this may be part of her way of trying to snap him out of it. Of course, since they don't really interact regularly anymore, she may be off base as to how to get him to "move on", but it's hard to say. She may actually be trying something that's worked previously on him.
Any evidence to back up such a claim, perhaps from the first time she appeared?Demonstrates either social unawareness, or has fun at Marten's expense, depending on how favourably you look at it. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1824)
Mrs. Reed may just have a problem of blurting out the first thing that comes to mind without completely thinking about it. This will be repeated below (when talking to Sven).
She waited until he left. This proves that she knew he would disapprove of her actions, yet she took them anyway. Even if Marten only objects to that one, she should have removed it, and confidently brought the album out in front of him, instead of furtively going behind his back. The mere fact that she waits for him to leave is proof that she knows he disapproves, and isn't just socially inept.Brings along baby pictures, which Marten has already expressed distaste for in the past. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1825) She waits for him to leave, because she knows he'd disapprove of her actions. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1827)
I'm not sure that Marten objects to the baby pictures per se, so much as the one specific one. And I don't think that she pulled out the baby pictures just for that single one. I think she's just proud of her boy, and wants to show off how "cute" he was when he was young to his friends. In her mind, she thinks that this will help show them what a wonderful boy he is. This is, again, what seems to be a fairly common parental attitude.
As a professional dominatrix, she should have better control of her tongue than to blurt stuff out without thinking. Also, no evidence for her blurting out without thinking has been provided.Touching raw nerves by openly flirting with Marten's ex's brother. Judging from his reaction here, going off to sleep is Marten's way of dealing with the stress from his mother. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831)
Again, as stated above, possibly just a case of speaking without thinking. Doesn't negate the damage done, of course, but it might explain why it comes out that way.
You mean there is a reason for her to sneak out in the middle of the dinner? I have nothing against her comforting Dora, but if her goal was to keep the peace, then she should have picked a significantly better moment. i.e. One when she wasn't hanging out with him.Again openly disregards his feelings and lies to him, so she can go off and comfort his ex. Completely inappropriate behaviour. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831) When he finds out, she denies it, and then, instead of apologising, defends her actions. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1834)
All of this not including the most recent strip, which we agree is out of line.
In contrast, she managed to have a nice conversation with Dora. So she succeeds at comforting the person who put her son in the state he's in. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1833)
Something along the lines of that with Marten is what she should do. But that's not what people are complaining about. The problem is what she shouldn't do is exactly what she has done. Namely, everything I've just linked to.
The sad fact of the matter may be that she actually likes Dora too much. In fact, she might be going to comfort Dora precisely because she remembers the threats she made last visit (although those were admittedly to Faye and not Dora) and she's going out of her way to let Dora know that there's no need to fear any retribution. This may even be some sort of (possibly misguided) attempt to clear the way for a possible future reconciliation between Marten and Dora. Now, sure, she lied about and denied her visit to Dora, but this may have been part of a continued attempt to keep the peace between everyone because she could easily see that her visiting Dora would upset Marten (for multiple reasons). Even so, it's likely that she felt that "it was in the interest of the greater good" that she make the attempt (actual greater good is something we'll argue here, naturally).
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
Your point has come up a couple times, and I kind of disagree. Bringing out the baby book behind his back in and of itself is not unusual - it seems to be a pretty universal mom thing to consider them adorable and worthy of showing off to anyone who wants a gander while their children consider it mortifying, something to be revealed only to a spouse. Mothers are aware of this but do not consider it an obstacle to their desire to show off their wittle boy.She waited until he left. This proves that she knew he would disapprove of her actions, yet she took them anyway. Even if Marten only objects to that one, she should have removed it, and confidently brought the album out in front of him, instead of furtively going behind his back. The mere fact that she waits for him to leave is proof that she knows he disapproves, and isn't just socially inept.Brings along baby pictures, which Marten has already expressed distaste for in the past. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1825) She waits for him to leave, because she knows he'd disapprove of her actions. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1827)I'm not sure that Marten objects to the baby pictures per se, so much as the one specific one. And I don't think that she pulled out the baby pictures just for that single one. I think she's just proud of her boy, and wants to show off how "cute" he was when he was young to his friends. In her mind, she thinks that this will help show them what a wonderful boy he is. This is, again, what seems to be a fairly common parental attitude.
Oh look, here is a crystal clear example of the sort of hyperbole I was talking about! Yay. The bar has been set. :psyduck:
Pika_power: I think the problem there is that it's a very different animal, comforting your emotionally prickly, sullen son while allowing him his space as a fellow adult from telling his ex you're not going to hunt her down and that you think she's not a Huge Bitch BLUH BLUH. She's kind of trying to play it by ear, and Marten isn't making it easy for her.
As an adult, it's his responsibility to say things like "No, mom, I can't handle lunch yet," or "I need a hug, mom, I'm not okay", and while I continue to think the whole embarrassment parade is harmless fun myself, (especially the Sven thing! All she saw was a chance to reenact The Graduate, she didn't know that was Dora's bro) even if you don't think so you must note he has put up all the resistance of a wet paper bag with snarky horseshit written on it. While we know that Mom clearly has authority still, and seems to wield it bluntly, it's not on her to know exactly what the boy is thinking or doing or wants.
I do think maybe Faye should've come to dinner. She might've kept things calmer all round, ironically.
Westrim: It's true, this is a hard time for Marten, but we aren't Marten! It's good to empathize, to a degree, but one must also recall that this is a silly slice of life comic that is generally pretty relentlessly lighthearted, and sometimes Marten will be trod on by Jeph for the sake of our laughter, and he'll bounce back from that like nothing even happened! Not every little thing in
QC is a piece of some greater whole, nor is every slight on our beleaguered boy a contribution to his mental breakdown.
Hodges: *bows* You are wiser and more patient than I, and I think that indulgence is necessary: as you say, our contributors are of many walks and stripes. I think, up until this last post, the dialogue (on the comic anyhow) was going rather well.
Sure am enjoying Emotional Bullying, the webcomic.
Unrelated, but that is a fantastic username.
Related, I could have sworn another comic already claimed that name...
But I think what's sort of alarming is how Marten automatically goes into apology mode. It's almost robotic. Marten's not a complete doormat - he's got enough balls to throw out a bitter comment in the first place to his own mother, and he's showed some of his nerve with what happened with Dora. But it's almost as if all his recent achievements in 'standing his ground' have sort of evaporated. It's almost unnatural.
Well it's sort of like I mentioned in another thread, it almost seems like the universe itself punishes Marten whenever he's assertive and not a doormat. Conditioning can make a person behave certain ways, and each time Marten has tried to seize his destiny his destiny kicks him in the nuts and screams that it was assaulted.Marten: "I'm tired of hanging around this small town; I'm going to seize my destiny and go out to see the world and all the music it has to off-oof!" *groans, slides to ground in the Standard Male Pain Position (SMPP)*
... destiny kicks him in the nuts and screams that it was assaulted.by a tentacle monster with spoon-fangs that shoots poison into the air five different ways.
Shulz was mentioned earlier, what I actually remember was an old peanuts cartoon where Lucy pulls the ball from Charlie Brown, in front of a whole stadium of people, which costs them the game and Peppermint Patty and everyone else yell at Charlie Brown for it. I think it was recieved so negatively they later redubbed it, but...well it feels oddly similar here. Just bringing that up as I reread the thread.
Shulz was mentioned earlier, what I actually remember was an old peanuts cartoon where Lucy pulls the ball from Charlie Brown, in front of a whole stadium of people, which costs them the game and Peppermint Patty and everyone else yell at Charlie Brown for it. I think it was recieved so negatively they later redubbed it, but...well it feels oddly similar here. Just bringing that up as I reread the thread.
I don't remember that exact strip, but Charlie Brown is an excellent comparison to make here. People (the comic readers) liked Charlie Brown because they saw a lot of themselves in him, namely the feelings of "weight of the world" and never really getting ahead with anyone or anything. Both Charlie and Marten are that "everyman" character that so many of us can empathize with on some level, since most everybody feels utterly put upon by life at one point or another.
***
Now might be a good time to mention that it's Jeph's storytelling ability that makes such an emotional response possible, of course. I wouldn't want to give the impression that I'm LESS of a fan for this, after all.
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
Yes, but then again I'm entirely sympathetic to Marten. My aim of irritation is more at his mother since her idea of helping is apparently rubbing salt in opened wounds.
And the fact that she realizes that Dora might need some sympathy and comfort, but isn't giving Marten the same benefit, is seriously messed up.
BLUH BLUH, VICTIM BLAMER
BLUH BLUH, VICTIM BLAMER
I'm honestly surprised that you felt I was making personal attacks, and mildly amused. I was not. Was I being dismissive and pointing out that I thought the post quoted was an excellent example of overwrought blubbering over the fate of Poor Poor Marten? Almost certainly! I'm sorry if that offends.
That being said, you have some pro self-righteousness and assumptions going on in your post, and I'm trying to gauge whether you mean them sincerely or are just trolling me. If you mean them sincerely, may I say that I think you are overinterpreting to the nth degree, and maybe need to calm down and recall what you're reading and that maybe you're projecting? If you are trolling, well, you win! The prize is my fleeting attention. Bask in it!
Okay we're done.
On to the more civil dialogues I was having.
Pika_power, I think you have a valid interpretation of events, and I am sure Marten would agree with your interpretation. Mayhap my problem is I'm trying not to view things exclusively through Marten's lens. There's a prevailing opinion on the forums, it seems, that Marten is in the right pretty continuously, and suffers like a martyr. I don't agree; Marty is very fallible, and all the sympathy grates after a while. I mean, for all the second-guessing Dora was doing through their entire relationship, ball of hidden psychological issues that she is, Marten was relatively happy, a few introspective sigh-filled nights aside. Recall that he's been doing very well by his own standards up until very very recently, and that he hasn't been Charlie Brown for more than a day or two in comic time.
I also think that Veronica would be shocked to hear that interpretation of events! I think (perhaps I stretch my good faith too much, but hey) that she is honestly trying to make Marten feel better and is perplexed as to why her attempts are not working, and that may be why she's lost her temper just now.
I also want to point out to all interested that I do think, having chewed the fat on it, that V's snap is indeed rather troubling, and not appropriate, and Marten's cringe is...well, it's troubling too. themacnut, you may be on to something there, and here's is a speculative thought: perhaps she really wants to feel for Marten, but she harbors simmering resentment for another Mr. Reed and the divorce? And try as she may, she ends up gravitating to the female in the relationship, because that was her in the past, whereas Marty is too much like his dad!
But this is wild speculation, and to engage it as truth is premature, silly, and Jeph's said he doesn't like it.
Besides which, I think it's far more likely that nobody knows what to do for Marten. And they try to help--they try! Hell, we were all expecting, in our hearts of hearts, that it would be like rje said: Veronica could fix this!! And we were so excited! But in the end, can she? Can anyone? Not really. And it's really disappointing!
Yet it's part of life.
As I said previously:
It's hard. Being a kid and growing up. It's hard and nobody understands.
I don't say that just because it's pithy and I am in love with Andrew Hussie's Homestuck, I say it because it's true. It is really hard to grow up and go through this shit and figure your life out, and nobody understands how to do it for you. It's hard, and I don't think Marten really realized how hard until right now. I think the real tragedy here is that Marten may be realizing that even his mom can't fix everything, and where does he go from here?
That being said, I also think it's important to step back, take a breath, and recall that QC is at its heart a lighthearted situational comedy where perpetual hipsters, nerds and a mad scientist's daughter share lives with porn-obsessed robots and Yelling Birds, and that if you view everything in it through the lens of Really Serious Drama, you are inviting nothing but constant heartbreak. Like life, QC should be enjoyed, and laughed at, not just the source of bitten lips and pursed brows.
Finally, iduguphergrave, I think you have a very good point: I know I could not go off on my mother like that, at least not with out feeling tremendous guilt and offering my apologies minutes later.
Besides which, I think it's far more likely that nobody knows what to do for Marten. And they try to help--they try! Hell, we were all expecting, in our hearts of hearts, that it would be like rje said: Veronica could fix this!! And we were so excited! But in the end, can she? Can anyone? Not really. And it's really disappointing!
Finally, iduguphergrave, I think you have a very good point: I know I could not go off on my mother like that, at least not with out feeling tremendous guilt and offering my apologies minutes later.
On to the more civil dialogues I was having.For the most part, Marten is in the right. He's not perfect, and he doesn't always make the best decisions, but he usually makes good decisions. It's very difficult to blame him for events that unfold, and he's always playing the peacemaker, as even he's begun to notice. That's what makes his side attractive to the forum. Certainly, he completely screwed up when he got drunk, and for the past few in-comic days, he has been a dick, but he's usually in the right.
Pika_power, I think you have a valid interpretation of events, and I am sure Marten would agree with your interpretation. Mayhap my problem is I'm trying not to view things exclusively through Marten's lens. There's a prevailing opinion on the forums, it seems, that Marten is in the right pretty continuously, and suffers like a martyr. I don't agree; Marty is very fallible, and all the sympathy grates after a while. I mean, for all the second-guessing Dora was doing through their entire relationship, ball of hidden psychological issues that she is, Marten was relatively happy, a few introspective sigh-filled nights aside. Recall that he's been doing very well by his own standards up until very very recently, and that he hasn't been Charlie Brown for more than a day or two in comic time.
I also think that Veronica would be shocked to hear that interpretation of events! I think (perhaps I stretch my good faith too much, but hey) that she is honestly trying to make Marten feel better and is perplexed as to why her attempts are not working, and that may be why she's lost her temper just now.Of course. I doubt she views herself as the villain. She's the kindly, supportive mother who flew out to comfort her son on short notice after his harsh breakup. We, as the audience, can see that she's either malicious or just plain stupid. All her actions are bringing Marten pain, and as a mother, she should pick up on that. Whatever way you look at it, you either have to be malicious towards your son, or an idiot to ditch him in the middle of dinner to comfort his ex. She may feel justified, but she's not considering Marten's feelings in the slightest. (Or if she is, she's malicious.)
It's hard. Being a kid and growing up. It's hard and nobody understands.I honestly interpreted that as a sarcastic and insincere comment, as opposed to a true one. Growing up is easy, because all you have to do is survive and you grow, and of course everybody understands; they all went through it themselves. That quote strikes me more as a patronising adult talking down to a kid than anything else, although I haven't seen the original context, so I'm just going off the impression I get from reading it.
I don't say that just because it's pithy and I am in love with Andrew Hussie's Homestuck, I say it because it's true.
Finally, iduguphergrave, I think you have a very good point: I know I could not go off on my mother like that, at least not with out feeling tremendous guilt and offering my apologies minutes later.I could, quite easily. But I'm an angsty teen filled with angsty teenage rage, so I get the feeling my opinion isn't valid here. :p
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
My entire point was that she was not viewing him as a full adult. She's acting as a mother, yes; a mother to a kid. She's supposed to be a mother to an adult, which is how we're expecting her to act.
We don't really know how Marten responds to bad breakups (the only other one we know about for sure is Vicki, whom he followed to Massachusetts for, and we never saw how he really dealt with that). Mrs. Reed, however, might, and if her experience is that Marten tends to descend into a funk, then this may be part of her way of trying to snap him out of it. Of course, since they don't really interact regularly anymore, she may be off base as to how to get him to "move on", but it's hard to say. She may actually be trying something that's worked previously on him.Evidence for such a theory must be provided. Without evidence, it's mere conjecture. It's possible that this is her way of snapping him out of it, and it may have worked before. However there nothing to suggest this is the case.
As evidence against it, Ms. Reed wished to help Dora, and helped her superbly, demonstrating that she has the ability to comfort people in an effective manner. We have seen little of that behaviour directed at Marten though.
As further reason for why the 'Ms. Reed works in mysterious ways' theory is invalid, look at Marten's reaction so far. It doesn't appear to be helping, and so far, Marten's reaction to Ms. Reed has been far from positive. That doesn't strike me as successful, and if Ms. Reed really were as devious as the theory suggests, she should be able to see that.
Mrs. Reed may just have a problem of blurting out the first thing that comes to mind without completely thinking about it. This will be repeated below (when talking to Sven).Any evidence to back up such a claim, perhaps from the first time she appeared?As a professional dominatrix, she should have better control of her tongue than to blurt stuff out without thinking. Also, no evidence for her blurting out without thinking has been provided.Touching raw nerves by openly flirting with Marten's ex's brother. Judging from his reaction here, going off to sleep is Marten's way of dealing with the stress from his mother. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1831)
Again, as stated above, possibly just a case of speaking without thinking. Doesn't negate the damage done, of course, but it might explain why it comes out that way.
I'm not sure that Marten objects to the baby pictures per se, so much as the one specific one. And I don't think that she pulled out the baby pictures just for that single one. I think she's just proud of her boy, and wants to show off how "cute" he was when he was young to his friends. In her mind, she thinks that this will help show them what a wonderful boy he is. This is, again, what seems to be a fairly common parental attitude.She waited until he left. This proves that she knew he would disapprove of her actions, yet she took them anyway. Even if Marten only objects to that one, she should have removed it, and confidently brought the album out in front of him, instead of furtively going behind his back. The mere fact that she waits for him to leave is proof that she knows he disapproves, and isn't just socially inept.
You mean there is a reason for her to sneak out in the middle of the dinner? I have nothing against her comforting Dora, but if her goal was to keep the peace, then she should have picked a significantly better moment. i.e. One when she wasn't hanging out with him.
Of course. I doubt she views herself as the villain. She's the kindly, supportive mother who flew out to comfort her son on short notice after his harsh breakup. We, as the audience, can see that she's either malicious or just plain stupid. All her actions are bringing Marten pain, and as a mother, she should pick up on that. Whatever way you look at it, you either have to be malicious towards your son, or an idiot to ditch him in the middle of dinner to comfort his ex. She may feel justified, but she's not considering Marten's feelings in the slightest. (Or if she is, she's malicious.)
Maybe it's just the mothers that I know, but this sort of thing really isn't all that uncommon, so I don't find that her acting that way is out of the ordinary (my friends are all mostly in their late 20s to early 30s, by the way... some of them with children of their own!). Some mothers just never quite get past that "mothering instinct", and more often than not, times of trouble like this bring that out even more.Yep. My original post was in response to someone saying she was treating him like an adult. Regardless of how common that is, she's still babying him.
As stated, the problem is that we don't know how Marten responds, so your conjecture that sympathy directed at Marten would work better than the current approach is just as much mere conjecture as mine. Certainly, her current approach does not seem to be working at present, but that does not mean that showing him sympathy and just being there for him would work better. Hannelore at least partially tried that approach, and there did not seem to be much improvement (admittedly, it was only for a short time). My point is really that we have no evidence... for either side.We can see that the current approach isn't working, which demonstrates the point 'Marten does not respond well to tough love.' So tough love is known to be a failure, while conventional methods are just plain unknown. So why is Ms. Reed using a method that clearly doesn't work, as opposed to something else?
She comforts Dora in the "conventional" way because she doesn't know what would work for her, and thus uses that method, but perhaps she knows that doesn't work on her son, and thus is going for the "tough love" approach. This brings up a possibly interesting point, however. How similar is Marten to his father, and how much of Mrs. Reed's reaction may be some subconscious reaction to things that would work on him? After all, there is that story about him in #441 (linked below).However there is ample evidence that tough love does not work on her son either, and no evidence that conventional love doesn't.
#433 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=433) - Her first time talking to Faye is remarkably like her first time talking to Hannelore, allowing for the fact that Hannelore has more obvious issues than Faye. Remember that this was before "The Talk", so all we really knew that was "wrong" about Faye was her habit of using Marten as a punching bag. Also consider how she casually mentions how Marten doesn't like to talk about the divorce not only because of the divorce, but because his father had just come out of the closet. To me, this wouldn't be the sort of thing you casually mention to someone you've only just met. Marten passes it off as not being much of a surprise.Thanks. Now it's a solid theory. Ms. Reed does have a tendency to blurt stuff out, however back then Marten wasn't coming out of a breakup, so it was just wacky hijinks, as opposed to drama.
#434 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=434) - Second to last and last panels; Mrs. Reed is setup as dating guys half her age (Hi, Sven!), and providing information that embarasses Marty. Even Faye mentions that it's a cold reaction. Seems like even more setup for what we have going on now. Of course, at the time, Marten was in a better place (emotionally), so it all pretty much just got passed off as "oh, that darn mother of mine".
#435 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=435) - Last panel again, merrily carrying on about her own thing and embarassing Marten further.
#441 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=441) - Ribald story about herself and Marten's father, which she alternately claims is true, then not, then is. I think this one might actually be worse than her showing off his baby pictures. On that note, perhaps this is related to your professional dominatrix thing; since she's with her son, she feels she can "relax" and be off the job, which loosens her tongue a bit more than might be considered proper.
#460 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=460) - Last panel, again with the TMI for Marten, as well as the added punch of Faye's comment.
#1822 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1822) - This visit, but see how she blurts out the same statement as Dora did upon meeting Tai. Now, when this was last discussed, it was more about how it was the same statement as Dora's, but it's still another example of her blurting things out without necessarily thinking about it.
As someone else has mentioned, this is still a common parental phenomenon. It's a case of where parental pride in what they've created outweighs (for them) any possible embarassment inflicted on their offspring. In fact, often in their view, it's more of a "look how cute my little snookum wookums is/was," and in their minds it should only enhance said offspring's standing amongst their friends. Said offspring, of course, naturally often have different ideas. It's just part of the dichotomy between parental and children's views.My initial post was providing evidence that Ms. Reed still treated him as a kid, as opposed to an adult. Whether or not it's common, disregarding your son's opinion to show images behind his back is not treating them in a manner fitting to that of an adult.
This may have been the only time she thought she could find Dora. After all, she doesn't know where Sven lives, and it's not exactly a question she could ask Marten. For that matter, she may not even know that Dora is currently living with Sven. The point being that as far as we know that Mrs. Reed knows, the only place she would be able to find Dora would be at CoD, and she just took the first opportunity she had to go there, even though it ended up being during a time when she was with Marten.Isn't Coffee of Doom open tomorrow? What was so urgent about it that she had to walk out on Marten to see her?
And for the record, I do not necessarily agree with what Mrs. Reed has been doing. I do feel that I should point out how things might seem from her end, and that we can then all draw our own conclusions, as people generally do. The point being that while what Mrs. Reed is doing may be "wrong", she's not doing them arbitrarily, but is doing them for reasons that, to her, seem valid.Fair enough. It seems I've taken a stance against Ms. Reed's honourable name, so it's conducive to discussion if others take a stance protecting it. That way, weak arguments either get weeded out or improved. (Or if the discussion goes badly, turn into a flame war.)
I don't agree that we can see "that she's either malicious or just plain stupid." She doesn't see things the same as he does, and she may be wrong, but this doesn't necessarily make her malicious or stupid. If she had been truly malicious, she would have told him flat out, "Now that we're here, I'm going to pop over and comfort Dora, because you don't deserve it, you whiny little bitch." Instead, she tried to spare his feelings by trying to cover up what she was doing. Now, I don't disagree that it might not have been the best time for her to do it, but, as stated above, she may have thought that she wouldn't get any better chance to do so, and perhaps she did it in order to hopefully gain some more insight into the situation so she could maybe adjust her tactics. If this was the case, it did apparently fail, although we don't know if she and Dora talked anymore after the strip we saw. Still, just because 2 people disagree on things, or do things differently, does not make one or the other "malicious or stupid." There is a lot of room in this world for genuine disagreement on how things ought to be handled, and there is usually no one right answer.Yes, perhaps 'malicious' was a bad choice of words. May I instead replace it with, "blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes"?
All her actions are bringing Marten pain, and as a mother, she should pick up on that. Whatever way you look at it, you either have to be malicious towards your son, or an idiot to ditch him in the middle of dinner to comfort his ex. She may feel justified, but she's not considering Marten's feelings in the slightest. (Or if she is, she's malicious.)
I'm inclined to think a big part of it is that Ms. Reed truly doesn't know how to comfort Marten. A simple hug may be out of the question, at least in her mind, because Marten, like most boys, has most likely been refusing/protesting hugs from his mother since his preteen years. Attempting to "force" a hug on him could be taken just as badly as everything else she's tried. So what to do, indeed? Probably even Marten doesn't know, this appears to be only the second serious romantic relationship he's had that's crashed and burned, and he's hurting and doesn't know how to make it stop. Even alcohol has failed him as a comforter.
All her actions are bringing Marten pain, and as a mother, she should pick up on that. Whatever way you look at it, you either have to be malicious towards your son, or an idiot to ditch him in the middle of dinner to comfort his ex. She may feel justified, but she's not considering Marten's feelings in the slightest. (Or if she is, she's malicious.)
Little bit of hyperbole there? Despite the UGLY turn which events took after leaving the restaurant, I still think that sole reason of Ms. Reed coming to town is to be there for her son. The methods she's using may not be the best, and even the results aren't quite what she's expecting. But malicious? To her OWN SON? To whom she took time to fly over from CA to visit (albeit against Martens will, I admit). Kind of farfetched accusation, methinks.
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
I agree. For those of you wishing Marten would sack up and stand up for himself to Veronica, ask yourself: Would you be able to yell at your mom?
Real mom: Kind of hard, since she's six feet under.
What's going to happen before Veronica leaves town?
Reconciliation - between the sheets. - 4 (3.5%)
Platonic Reconciliation. - 11 (9.6%)
Hilarious Misunderstanding. - 15 (13.2%)
MARTEN RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE! - 23 (20.2%)
DORA RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE! - 0 (0%)
FAYE RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE! - 2 (1.8%)
Hannelore Hulks out! - 6 (5.3%)
Sven Seduction! - 9 (7.9%)
Cosette Burns down COD, everyone dies. - 16 (14%)
Pintsize! - 7 (6.1%)
Waffles! - 21 (18.4%)
Total Voters: 114
I like that waffles is a close second, and would like to find a way to combine waffles and Marten RAAAGE
Agreed, as noted in my reply above, malicious was a poor choice on my part. "Blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes" is closer to the point I was trying to make.
And yeah, if this is a light-hearted comedy, then having Veronica hit by a bus would be every bit as funny as this was. Funnier, in fact.
Hell, I wouldn't put it past her to do something like looking up porn on his computer, even if he specifically asked her not to. Take from that what you will.
Pika: Distegarding perhaps? She seems more "ignorant", to me; she's definitely back in established mother-child patterns. I think she isn't a stupid person, but she's reading Marty wrong and he's not helping. Again, her whip-crack discipline is out of line on an adult, yes, but I think she has been being a bumbling confused parent with communication issues and clouded emotions, not an actively malicious force.
Seriously, mothers are the easiest people to get angry at, because most of the time, we know they love us unconditionally. And they are also the undisputed mistresses of guilt-tripping us.
"No moar waffles???" "Noooooo!!!"
*last straw for our unlucky protagonist*
"FFFFUUUUU!"
\
Pika: Distegarding perhaps? She seems more "ignorant", to me; she's definitely back in established mother-child patterns. I think she isn't a stupid person, but she's reading Marty wrong and he's not helping. Again, her whip-crack discipline is out of line on an adult, yes, but I think she has been being a bumbling confused parent with communication issues and clouded emotions, not an actively malicious force.
Yes. For the third time since I initially posted it, I take it back. Marten's mother is not malicious. A far better turn of phrase is "Blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes".
"No moar waffles???" "Noooooo!!!"
*last straw for our unlucky protagonist*
"FFFFUUUUU!"
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Monday's strip (in this bizzaro-world unlikely-to-happen universe) would be them leading a battered, hand-cuffed Martin to the police-car, Pintsize pieces strewn about the room ...
Marten's historically been good about reacting proportionally to Pintsize. Also he regards Pintsize as a friend, not just property. That said, I can imagine frozen waffles in Pintsize's near future.
And then Marten would have a human body to hide...
Marten's historically been good about reacting proportionally to Pintsize...
Oh come on it's the weekend and I've been drinking lighten up!
Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?I can deny my ability to confirm this. Does that help?
Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?
Yes, perhaps 'malicious' was a bad choice of words. May I instead replace it with, "blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes"?
EDIT: I remembered my final point! Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?
And yeah, if this is a light-hearted comedy, then having Veronica hit by a bus would be every bit as funny as this was. Funnier, in fact.Since after her recent behavior, she'd deserve it.
As well, something I thought about when I read through #459 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=459) when I was hunting down the "Mrs. Reed comments without thinking" strips is her statement about how Marten is an adult and can make his own choices, along with the arguments about whether or not he's being treated like a child or not... it seems to me that there's a bit of a double standard* going on when it comes to how people are arguing about how his mother should treat him. On the one hand, there was all the hoping and wishing that Mrs. Reed would come swooping in and "fix" everything back when we first heard that she was visiting. Now, if she'd actually done that, that would have been almost the definition of treating him like a child; "here, sweetie, let Mommy take care of everything for you." On the other hand, when she doesn't "coddle" him and instead treats things as if they were normal, in a backhanded way, she's treating him as a full adult; "you're old enough to solve all your own problems, dear, and you don't need any help from me."
Now, obviously, these are two extremes, but it does support the proposition that Marten and Mrs. Reed are still trying to work out how their relationship should perhaps function. The way Mrs. Reed swings back and forth between the positions (treating him like a child one moment, and then leaving him alone for others) strengthens the claim that she doesn't quite know how to deal with him.
There really aren't any written rules for parenting, but Mr. Hodges has definitely hit the nail on the head - generally we don't reprimand in front of friends or other people, but if you really cross the line then public reprimands are warranted. Just like in your workplace , the boss will usually take you aside to rip you a new one - but if you are endangering others, or an egregious violation of workplace rules, you may just end up being taken care of in front of your peers.So parents are bosses, unless you work your way up the chain to become a fellow executive? Hey, this analogy works!
[Uh oh: after our loutish behavior in December <November, actually>, maybe his anger at us is coming through...]
Yes, perhaps 'malicious' was a bad choice of words. May I instead replace it with, "blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes"?
I would go with just "thoughtless" or "careless" myself, or possibly "inconsiderate". I don't feel there's any active malice or thought involved, which your choices seem to imply. We might disagree on this point (active malice/thought), however.
Yeah, Jeph's above such things.[Uh oh: after our loutish behavior in December <November, actually>, maybe his anger at us is coming through...]
Jeph wouldn't compromise the comic for such low-grade revenge - and I'm sure he will have seen the improvement here in any case.
She knows what he doesn't want her to do. We know she knows, because she takes actions so that Marten won't know what she's doing. This is the 'blatantly (and knowingly) disregarding Marten's wishes' part. The thoughtlessness or carelessness comes in when she decides to do it at the worst possible time, instead of waiting for tomorrow.Right. As has been already established (too lazy to find/quote), she's good at figuring out interpersonal issues, so surely she has an inkling of what the effects on her actions will be on Marten. Either she is simply disregarding that or she thinks it will help (this could be true, she's known him longer than anyone currently in the comic).
That woman needs a cold shower.
That woman needs a cold shower.Or a close encounter with a bus.
She's Marten's MOM, she wouldn't bear him any ill will.
BLUH BLUH, VICTIM BLAMER
I'm honestly surprised that you felt I was making personal attacks, and mildly amused. I was not. Was I being dismissive and pointing out that I thought the post quoted was an excellent example of overwrought blubbering over the fate of Poor Poor Marten? Almost certainly! I'm sorry if that offends.
That being said, you have some pro self-righteousness and assumptions going on in your post, and I'm trying to gauge whether you mean them sincerely or are just trolling me. If you mean them sincerely, may I say that I think you are overinterpreting to the nth degree, and maybe need to calm down and recall what you're reading and that maybe you're projecting? If you are trolling, well, you win! The prize is my fleeting attention. Bask in it!
Okay we're done.
I've actually had a bit of an epiphany just now.
What if Veronica is actually trying to annoy and alienate Marten a bit, so that when she LEAVES he's happy and more independent?
Even if that's not the plan, it'll be the end effect, I think. Of course, I think that Marten needs to hang out a bit with his real friends, like Steve and Faye, after this.
That was the effect, and Hannelore is smart enough to have done it that way on purpose, but can we be sure that was her intent?Can we even be sure what she was thinking at all? She was, after all, on some pretty powerful anti-anxiety meds at the time. (too lazy to find the exact comic)
What if Veronica is actually trying to annoy and alienate Marten a bit, so that when she LEAVES he's happy and more independent?
Even if that's not the plan, it'll be the end effect, I think.