THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: maddness on 05 Feb 2009, 18:20
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I'm thinking he should run. Maybe change his name ... go underground. It's about to get angtsy.
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Oh...
I thought this was gonna be one of those "OMIGHOD SO HOT BUTSEX" threads.
Thank you for proving me wrong :-)
Also i agree.
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Guaranteed, either he or her or both will be destroyed savagely. Next week at some point we might see another "Litany Against Fear" reference (yay, Dune!).
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I think Faye is gonna be hurt and vulnerable and get drunk and say just the right thing in front of Marten that will make him question why he is with Dora when Faye is who he's always wanted.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dora, but the Faye-Marten thing is something we would all love to see.
If the Office can pull off Jim-Pam, then QC can pull off Faye-Marten.
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Well, this strip is where the comic officially went about a thousand miles over the shark for me.
I guess Jeph is writing to his audience now, which is fine, but that audience won't be including me anymore.
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Well, this strip is where the comic officially went about a thousand miles over the shark for me.
I guess Jeph is writing to his audience now, which is fine, but that audience won't be including me anymore.
What is it that you're objecting to in regards to this storyline?
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I'm not sure how this could qualify as jumping the shark at all... Although I suppose Sven is a little bit like The Fonz.
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Relationship-drama for its own sake, or the sake of pleasing the readers. Also drawing a sex scene, I mean, really now...
You know how some people hate the "Kate-Jack-Sawyer" stuff on LOST? That's what this strip reminds me of. It just seems like poor writing to have Sven revert to having such incredibly poor self-control as to sleep with a random girl, when he has clearly been written to be trying to make up for his womanizing ways for well over 2 years worth of strips now.
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I think Faye is gonna be hurt and vulnerable and get drunk and say just the right thing in front of Marten that will make him question why he is with Dora when Faye is who he's always wanted.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dora, but the Faye-Marten thing is something we would all love to see.
If the Office can pull off Jim-Pam, then QC can pull off Faye-Marten.
Really? Why do folks here assume that Marten and Faye are destined to be the hottest shit ever?
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Really? Why do folks here assume that Marten and Faye are destined to be the hottest shit ever?
too many 80's John Cusack movies I guess?
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Are you forgetting that the ending to The Breakfast Club completely sucked because Ally Sheedy's character decided to become a "normal" girl and hooked up with the jock?
Seriously I love that flick but I always turn it off before that part. The whole point of the movie was to accept who you are and then, BAM, crazy-cool art-chick is in a stupid baby-blue dress.
SHENANIGANS.
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The whole point of the movie was to accept who you are and then, BAM, crazy-cool art-chick is in a stupid baby-blue dress.
maybe that's who she was?
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Relationship-drama for its own sake, or the sake of pleasing the readers. Also drawing a sex scene, I mean, really now...
You know how some people hate the "Kate-Jack-Sawyer" stuff on LOST? That's what this strip reminds me of. It just seems like poor writing to have Sven revert to having such incredibly poor self-control as to sleep with a random girl, when he has clearly been written to be trying to make up for his womanizing ways for well over 2 years worth of strips now.
Because obviously every reformation must happen overnight and nobody ever backpedals in real life. To me it seems to be completely in character. He is obviously a spontaneous type of person so its completely realistic for him to sleep with a random girl. As far as his progress is concerned... well, he is feeling bad while he's doing it right?
Faye will be pissed, but that just cements my view that she is an absolute bitch.
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Fanservice, woo...
This comic is basically the manifestation of one of my two main reservations with QC.
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Faye will be pissed, but that just cements my view that she is an absolute bitch.
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Yes, how dare a woman be angry about her lover having sex with another woman after she asked him not to? Total bitch.
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Fanservice, woo...
This comic is basically the manifestation of one of my two main reservations with QC.
Thank God, someone agrees with me.
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Faye will be pissed, but that just cements my view that she is an absolute bitch.
Yes, how dare a woman be angry about her lover having sex with another woman after she asked him not to? Total bitch.
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How dare someone sleep with someone else when they are in a non-monogamous relationship! Travesty!
They're friends with benefits...
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Faye will be pissed, but that just cements my view that she is an absolute bitch.
Yes, how dare a woman be angry about her lover having sex with another woman after she asked him not to? Total bitch.
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:roll:
Yeah, and the women who basically said to him "I don't want to be in a relationship with you, but I don't want you to be with anyone else either. So just sex?"
All of Jeph's central female characters are bascially fucked up in some way:
Faye: Unable to be intimate with ANY man beyond a physical relationship. Jealous that she is unable to be, while others are.
Dora: Massively insecure. Has a tough facade to hide her deep insecurities of being unable to control EVERYTHING in her life.
Hannelore: OCD, enough said.
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If this is poor writing, then it is well foreshadowed poor writing. We've had Sven tell Faye flat out that he's fine with her leaving if he sleeps with someone else. Words to the effect "Great, it'll save me the trouble of a messy breakup talk".
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All of Jeph's central female characters are bascially fucked up in some way:
Fixed that for you
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Really? Why do folks here assume that Marten and Faye are destined to be the hottest shit ever?
Um...? Because it is how the comic began and some people just cannot stop hoping that they will "eventually" get together?
All of Jeph's central female characters are bascially fucked up in some way:
Fixed that for you
I agree. Marten qualifies as "fucked up" in my book. His mother was a dominatrix and he allows himself to get practically bullied by this female friends. He is kind of a pussy and, if I met him on the street, I would probably treat the way Faye had in the first 500 or so comics.
Back to the "Oh, Sven..." thing: I almost feel sorry for him. He lacks any self control and he will be incapable of controlling even his bodily functions once Faye gets through with him.
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QC? Moar like OC lolololol
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oh noes!
Pleasing the reader is often at the back of a writer's mind; he'd like to continue making a living out of it, I guess. As for Sven's behaviour, I've certainly seen real-life people do that in that timescale, and even for it to work out in the end - it's not unrealistic writing. Nor is it the first sex scene, though it is a little more explicit than previous ones.
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Fanservice, woo...
This comic is basically the manifestation of one of my two main reservations with QC.
I'll bite.
What's the other?
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Are you forgetting that the ending to The Breakfast Club completely sucked because Ally Sheedy's character decided to become a "normal" girl and hooked up with the jock?
Seriously I love that flick but I always turn it off before that part. The whole point of the movie was to accept who you are and then, BAM, crazy-cool art-chick is in a stupid baby-blue dress.
SHENANIGANS.
I totally agree! I always felt that was soo unnecessary... I felt the same way about Shrek- why did Fiona had to be an ogre to end up with Shrek? The whole point of the thing was that looks didn't matter and the princess could love the monster... but noooo- they had to go and make them look the same, because, I don't know, people might be shocked!
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Nothing wrong with a bit of fan service every now and then... brightened up my morning, I can tell you.
I suspect that regardless of Faye's reaction, Sven will be prompted to much introspection simply because he didn't enjoy the sex with Gina as much as he could have, due to being constantly distracted by pangs of conscience. That is, should he survive.
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It just seems like poor writing to
I'm not trying to change your opinion, but it's worth noting that...
have Sven revert to having such incredibly poor self-control as to sleep with a random girl
She's not completely random. She's the one country singer Sven apparently likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1320).
when he has clearly been written to be trying to make up for his womanizing ways for well over 2 years worth of strips now
2 years in QC strips = 2 hours in real life. Or thereabouts. :laugh:
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I think Faye is gonna be hurt and vulnerable and get drunk and say just the right thing in front of Marten that will make him question why he is with Dora when Faye is who he's always wanted.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dora, but the Faye-Marten thing is something we would all love to see.
If the Office can pull off Jim-Pam, then QC can pull off Faye-Marten.
This would be a horrible move. Dora is so much better a character than Faye. Plus, it really would jump the shark (at least without major shifts in plot first). If this comic's last strip is Faye and Marten confessing their love and making out in the rain, I will try to go back in time and stop myself from ever reading this comic.
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She's not completely random. She's the one country singer Sven apparently likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1320).
Thanks for pointing that out because I was just about to. Also, it should be of some note that he realizes he is doing a bad thing. The old Sven wouldn't have given it much thought.
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The random sex was almost inevitable. It is Sven slipping back to past 'easy' behaviour. It was easy to go along with what the hot singer wanted and, after all, he _has_ been telling Faye/himself that it's not like the consequences (Faye's inevitable explosion and departure) really matter to him. It was a pure sex convenience relationship after all.
And over the next few months we get to see Sven find out of that was really true.
[Hopefully Faye's feelings of betrayal won't send her back into psychosis, but it might send her out of town for a while.]
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Now this is some questionable content amirite?
As much as it comes off as "woo fanservice" (though I'm sure there's more people who'd rather see a Hanners/Tai panel, the pervs) I think this strip does make some important plot and character points. It's pretty clear that Sven is NOT enjoying himself, which may be a first for him re: casual sex. Perhaps his relationship with Faye, as informal as it is, is the first relationship that's gotten into his head so much that he can't enjoy a random bang. It's not drama for the sake of drama, at least not totally. This marks either the beginning of a true relationship with Faye or a total clusterfuck that winds up with her back in the crazy house. Either way, it will be interesting.
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It does make yesterday's guest comic a little sadder.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1333
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Everyone seems to be calling this a random girl. As jolinwarren noted, she's not.
She's not completely random. She's the one country singer Sven apparently likes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1320).
Sven is also not completely over his ways. Like pwhodges mentioned, people have relapses.
As for Sven's behaviour, I've certainly seen real-life people do that in that timescale, and even for it to work out in the end - it's not unrealistic writing.
It happens. Drug addicts who eventually kick their habits often have relapses. They hurt the people they love. And if we're going to consider this an actual problem that Sven can't control, you have to expect this kind of occasional relapse. This one is made some what easier to explain by the fact this was a person that Sven admired and even then, he had difficulty in going through with the act. He showed acceptance of the problem which as we've all heard is the first step in dealing with a problem.
My last point with Sven is this: unless Faye walks in on them, why would he be obliged to tell her? Sometimes it's better to not tell things like this just to clear your own conscience. We've discussed that in other threads in other places on the forums. But as long as he realizes what he did and doesn't let it happen again, maybe it's best if he just eats the guilt and doesn't add that stress to an otherwise, possibly burgeoning relationship... Just my two cents there...
As far as Marten and Faye, I guess I don't understand why that is so repugnant to so many people. All in all, Marten and Dora seem reasonably happy. Sven and Faye, not so much. But why wouldn't everyone want to be happy? And if Faye and Marten being together were to make them happy, why wouldn't that be a good thing? It happens in real life that way sometimes. Why not in a comic?
As I've said in other posts, I'm not sure it's going to end up that way, although I could certainly understand it if it did. So I think it's a bit premature to be saying this is it and that Jeph is playing all fan service. Not that that's bad, you understand. And I'm not even going to address the concerns about a sex scene other than to say this: if you're old enough to understand the subplots and consider all the different possibilities involved in a comic about relationships as cris-crossed as these, then you should be mature enough to deal with a little comic nudity. There no actuals bits showing so I don't have an issue with it.
Those are my opinions... and you're welcome to discuss them as much as you wish... lol :mrgreen:
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Fanservice, woo...
This comic is basically the manifestation of one of my two main reservations with QC.
I'll bite.
What's the other?
Oh, har. The way the characters all look at the "camera" when they deliver their punchlines in most strips.
And, to be clear, the problem I have with this comic (meaning this specific one, not the whole of QC) and all it stands for is basically that all the meaningless casual sex has a tendency to come off as the author's private fantasies and not so grounded in any coherent plot-line. Like...that comic where Faye is talking about having the alphabet trick done on her. I mean, Jeph's a guy, so that can't be personal experience - so, to me, it's just easy writing to titillate his audience (and himself?).
I don't know. I like the comic in general and I don't mean to dump criticism on it, but these are the two main things that interfere with my personal enjoyment of the comic.
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Now this is some questionable content amirite?
As much as it comes off as "woo fanservice" (though I'm sure there's more people who'd rather see a Hanners/Tai panel, the pervs) I think this strip does make some important plot and character points. It's pretty clear that Sven is NOT enjoying himself, which may be a first for him re: casual sex. Perhaps his relationship with Faye, as informal as it is, is the first relationship that's gotten into his head so much that he can't enjoy a random bang. It's not drama for the sake of drama, at least not totally. This marks either the beginning of a true relationship with Faye or a total clusterfuck that winds up with her back in the crazy house. Either way, it will be interesting.
Excellent point, tuna... And exactly the one I was trying to make...
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Oh, har. The way the characters all look at the "camera" when they deliver their punchlines in most strips.
And, to be clear, the problem I have with this comic (meaning this specific one, not the whole of QC) and all it stands for is basically that all the meaningless casual sex has a tendency to come off as the author's private fantasies and not so grounded in any coherent plot-line. Like...that comic where Faye is talking about having the alphabet trick done on her. I mean, Jeph's a guy, so that can't be personal experience - so, to me, it's just easy writing to titillate his audience (and himself?).
I don't know. I like the comic in general and I don't mean to dump criticism on it, but these are the two main things that interfere with my personal enjoyment of the comic.
The camera thing doesn't bother me at all, it's just a stylistic choice, so meh.
But I never found the sex scenes to be purely titillating. They build up the individual characters, and part of these characters is that they talk about, and have, sex. Which isn't that unrealistic. In fact, as a woman, I do tend to talk about talk about these things in front of men. So, I just think it's good characterization.
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Joined for this one message, because ya'll make me sick, and I'll never be visiting this pathetic subforum again.
The author is drawing and writing this comic to tell a story. It's not written to mirror the reader's relationships, or make them feel better about their insecurities, or to end in a way that makes them happy. If a plotline makes you unhappy, you are NOT allowed to say that it's a bad story just because of that. If you do, you need to seek professional help, because you're getting emotional validation out of a comic strip.
If you don't like the story, stop reading. But to claim because there's a sex scene (and a damn funny and story-appropriate one at that) that he's doing "fanservice" (especially stupid because there's only one minor character in the strip, and probably not one that freaky obsessives want to see naked), or that an activity is "out of character" when you don't *know* the character (you just think you do), makes you a worse-than-useless fan. What the hell is it with people who say "fanservice"? Losers.
I'm not saying that Jeph is Charles Dickens, but man, if Dickens had this horde of buttheads hounding him as he read each page, he would have never finished anything.
In a story, characters do things because a) the author thinks it will be fun, or b) because it advances the plotlines of that story. They don't do it solely to please the reader unless they're a hack writer, and in a lot of cases they SHOULD be doing things that piss the readers off, or at least make them uncomfortable. I think Jeph does a damn fine job myself.
P.S. Don't bother emailing me about what a bad person I am. Fake email address, and PMs will be laughed at because they prove my point.
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Sven is not every other angsty character on QC. He's a happy-go-lucky, arrogant person, and deservedly so. He's attractive, rich, charming, and talented.
Faye, on the other hand is the abrasive fat chick with psychiatric issues.
His's dalliances have been well noted. There is a very good reason Dora doesn't want Sven dating her friends. Faye understood the risk and has already internalized it.
Plus, Faye was (read: began as) a conquest. She was an impenetrable wall of negative emotion and sass. That's the thrill for guys like Sven.
However, it's obvious Sven does indeed have his own manner of feelings for Faye. It is entirely possible that his guilt is not over the manner in which it will harm their relationship, but for her fragile psychological state. Just because there's a lack of commitment does not mean that there is a lack of compassion. Up until now we have no idea what the true nature of his feelings are. And in all reality, the status control in the relationship lies entirely within his hands. Faye can try to call it off all she wants- he's already proven that his charm can break whatever emotional walls she puts up. And get him out of trouble.
If anything, Dora will be the one to kill him.
(as far as the general nature of the comic is concerned- this is a Sven arc, and this theme is Sven's life. He's a very sexual being. Compare it to removing the coffee shop from Dora's arcs It's not 'fan service' at all; it's good storytelling.)
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Joined for this one message, because ya'll make me sick, and I'll never be visiting this pathetic subforum again.
The author is drawing and writing this comic to tell a story. It's not written to mirror the reader's relationships, or make them feel better about their insecurities, or to end in a way that makes them happy. If a plotline makes you unhappy, you are NOT allowed to say that it's a bad story just because of that. If you do, you need to seek professional help, because you're getting emotional validation out of a comic strip.
If you don't like the story, stop reading. But to claim because there's a sex scene (and a damn funny and story-appropriate one at that) that he's doing "fanservice" (especially stupid because there's only one minor character in the strip, and probably not one that freaky obsessives want to see naked), or that an activity is "out of character" when you don't *know* the character (you just think you do), makes you a worse-than-useless fan. What the hell is it with people who say "fanservice"? Losers.
I'm not saying that Jeph is Charles Dickens, but man, if Dickens had this horde of buttheads hounding him as he read each page, he would have never finished anything.
In a story, characters do things because a) the author thinks it will be fun, or b) because it advances the plotlines of that story. They don't do it solely to please the reader unless they're a hack writer, and in a lot of cases they SHOULD be doing things that piss the readers off, or at least make them uncomfortable. I think Jeph does a damn fine job myself.
P.S. Don't bother emailing me about what a bad person I am. Fake email address, and PMs will be laughed at because they prove my point.
I figure the chances of you not coming back to read and re-read your little rant are about zero, because this is clearly all about attention, so I'll ignore your disclaimer and just jump right in.
Your opinion of what Jeph is doing is great. So is mine. And Jeph can ignore my opinion, I don't expect him to change the comic for me, and I never said he should. I just pointed out two things that bother me about the comic. But to say that people are NOT ALLOWED to criticize a story arc because it's what the author chose to do - is moronic. I can do whatever I want. I can keep reading and ignore what I see as imperfections; I can stop reading if it bothers me. You can come on here and make angsty, attention-seeking posts. It's a free world.
And I think it is fanservice to just slap a nearly explicit sex scene into a comic to spice things up. Anyway, this was never about the story arc to me, I'm not saying Sven's decision is out of character or whatever. This is just something I don't like about this comic, end of story.
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There is something particularly pathetic about registering for a sight just to tell it's users how pathetic you think they are.
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Yeah, going out on a limb, I'd say you'll probably be visiting this subforum again.
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And, to be clear, the problem I have with this comic (meaning this specific one, not the whole of QC) and all it stands for is basically that all the meaningless casual sex has a tendency to come off as the author's private fantasies and not so grounded in any coherent plot-line. Like...that comic where Faye is talking about having the alphabet trick done on her. I mean, Jeph's a guy, so that can't be personal experience - so, to me, it's just easy writing to titillate his audience (and himself?)
Just because he's a guy doesn't mean he can't write female experience. That's what being an author is all about. If people only wrote what they knew, we'd have the most boring literary/art selection ever.
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And, to be clear, the problem I have with this comic (meaning this specific one, not the whole of QC) and all it stands for is basically that all the meaningless casual sex has a tendency to come off as the author's private fantasies and not so grounded in any coherent plot-line. Like...that comic where Faye is talking about having the alphabet trick done on her. I mean, Jeph's a guy, so that can't be personal experience - so, to me, it's just easy writing to titillate his audience (and himself?)
Just because he's a guy doesn't mean he can't write female experience. That's what being an author is all about. If people only wrote what they knew, we'd have the most boring literary/art selection ever.
I don't know. I guess you're right, but here's an example...there's some webcomic I saw linked somewhere called, like, Lesbian Space Pirates or something. I checked it out hoping desperately that it was at least written by a woman. It was, and turned out to actually be written by a lesbian, so, score, I guess :-P My point is, you can see how a webcomic about Lesbian Space Pirates written by a man could easily come across as exploitative, right? I feel like there's a fine line between writing for a variety of characters of both genders, and just projecting desires on the characters or getting easy copy out of having some characters just having some gratuitous sex.
As I said, it's a) personal preference and b) a fine line, that for the most part I think Jeph successfully straddles. I mean, I do like QC. But I don't think it's unfair to sometimes complain when I think it goes too far in one direction or another.
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But doesnt complaining about 'fanservice' and voicing what you think was done wrong should also be considered a ploy for 'fanservice'? If its not, then it seems like a big 'LOOK AT ME' ploy, where as its as if you just wanted to say someting for the sake of saying something. Meh, oh well, people of all types lurk these vast intarwebz...
I myself found today's comic very surprising, yet I wasnt taken a back, because I can see Sven getting into a situation like this. You had to know it was going to happen sooner or later, and in all honesty I kinda had Sven's intern girl pegged as the one it would happen with. And for the record, I LOL'd at Sven's line in the last panel, hehe.
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Also, this story, like any other, is a slice of life, not the whole of it; thus, it can never be perfectly balanced in all respects. So what?
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But doesnt complaining about 'fanservice' and voicing what you think was done wrong should also be considered a ploy for 'fanservice'? If its not, then it seems like a big 'LOOK AT ME' ploy, where as its as if you just wanted to say someting for the sake of saying something. Meh, oh well, people of all types lurk these vast intarwebz...
I admit that I post my opinions on things because I want people to read them and potentially be convinced by them...isn't that sort of the point of having a discussion? :-P
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I, for one, am delighted. I've been wishing for something to come along and destabilize the situation in QC world for a while. The angsty relationship drama plotlines are why I liked this strip in the first place. Do I speak up to complain when the plot isn't going where I like? No. It's Jeph's comic, and should go where he wants it to. It has a large fanbase, and nobody is going to be pleased with every turn of events.
My personal opinion is that nothing especially interesting has happened since Marten and Faye had the "big talk" and he and Dora got together. With the exception of the side plot about Steve and Meena, which seems to have been abandoned, but for a single disconnected strip showing Steve hitting the hooch.
So I am hoping that Faye will find out about this, that Marten and Dora will fight about which of them is in the wrong, and that Sven will be racked with guilt and try unsuccessfully to get back into Faye's good graces, only to find that she and Marten have drunkenly hooked up after commiserating over their respective relationship troubles, and also that Faye has busted the Vespavenger out of the slammer, and that they've installed Vespa-bot's personality into Hannelore's robot boyfriend.
But that's just me. If it doesn't happen that way, I won't start posting about how Jeph is doing it wrong.
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I don't know. I guess you're right, but here's an example...there's some webcomic I saw linked somewhere called, like, Lesbian Space Pirates or something. I checked it out hoping desperately that it was at least written by a woman. It was, and turned out to actually be written by a lesbian, so, score, I guess :-P My point is, you can see how a webcomic about Lesbian Space Pirates written by a man could easily come across as exploitative, right? I feel like there's a fine line between writing for a variety of characters of both genders, and just projecting desires on the characters or getting easy copy out of having some characters just having some gratuitous sex.
As I said, it's a) personal preference and b) a fine line, that for the most part I think Jeph successfully straddles. I mean, I do like QC. But I don't think it's unfair to sometimes complain when I think it goes too far in one direction or another.
I'm not sure what to make of the implication that lesbian comics aren't exploitative because they're drawn by lesbians. Gedris tends to keep things relatively clean, but that's just her. Plenty of lesbian comic writers do explicit sex scenes. So why is a gay woman drawing gay women having sex not exploitation while having a straight man drawing straight people having sex is?
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I'm not sure what to make of it either. I feel like maybe it's wrong of me to think that (somehow) but it definitely colors my thoughts. If I read a lesbian comic with lots of sexual thoughts from the female protagonist, I would be pretty uncomfortable to find out it was drawn by a man. Somehow that feels pornographic in the hands of a man in a way that it doesn't if it's drawn by a lesbian. Is that wrong? I'm not sure. I'd feel the same way about a comic that contained lots of explicit thoughts and experiences about a male protagonist if it was drawn by a woman, by the way. It seems like vicarious exploration of fantasies rather than something honest. This is obviously more extreme than how I feel about QC sometimes, but I'm just making an argument.
I'm really not sure how I feel about my opinions on this, but I do hold them pretty strongly. I'm happy to debate them, though, and I'm also happy to change my mind.
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Just to be clear, the fanservice is, in my view, not the sex scene itself but rather the drama that he is creating by setting up a Faye-Sven Explosion.
Also, I think Jeph has been pandering to his audience (which, for the past couple years, has become mostly composed of people a decade or more younger than him who have very little in common with him) for a while now; this strip just made it super-obvious.
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I'm not sure what to make of it either. I feel like maybe it's wrong of me to think that (somehow) but it definitely colors my thoughts. If I read a lesbian comic with lots of sexual thoughts from the female protagonist, I would be pretty uncomfortable to find out it was drawn by a man. Somehow that feels pornographic in the hands of a man in a way that it doesn't if it's drawn by a lesbian. Is that wrong? I'm not sure. I'd feel the same way about a comic that contained lots of explicit thoughts and experiences about a male protagonist if it was drawn by a woman, by the way. It seems like vicarious exploration of fantasies rather than something honest. This is obviously more extreme than how I feel about QC sometimes, but I'm just making an argument.
I'm really not sure how I feel about my opinions on this, but I do hold them pretty strongly. I'm happy to debate them, though, and I'm also happy to change my mind.
Ok, so you're not comparing today's QC to Lesbian Pirates from Outer Space. You're comparing the latter to some hypothetical comic that is about lesbians but drawn by a man. It seemed like a strange criticism for today's comic, given that it was about straight sex (which is presumably a topic that a married heterosexual man would have some knowledge of) and written from the man's (Sven's) perspective.
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Jackie Blue, also just for the record, I thought it was already clear that the drama setup is what you took issue with. And that's fine. Some people want the story to stay static and comfortable, others do not.
What I take issue with though, is the apparent accusation that if the storyline becomes dramatic and emotional, that the creator is somehow a sellout. There is a subtle line between disagreeing with where the story goes, and suggesting that it indicates some kind of moral failure on the part of the artist. You're on the wrong side of it.
To call the direction he chooses to take pandering is to say it has no true artistic merit, which makes me wonder why you follow it.
I have never seen any evidence that Jeph chooses storylines based on the desires of the audience. Your evidence for it seems to be merely the fact that you don't like today's strip and happen to be in the minority on that topic. I can respect your opinions about the content of the strip, but not your opinions about the motivations of the artist -- nobody can know the mind of another.
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I didn't say that Jeph has "sold out", I just think that he has been increasingly writing to his new audience instead of his old audience.
Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
I'm fine with story progression, I just think that it looks to me like the strip has become more of a job to him - because it literally is, unless his wife pays all the bills, which I don't think is the case.
A lot of strips over the past couple years have looked to me like someone who is writing something but thinking in the back of his mind that he'd really rather be writing something else. I'm not sure he ever wanted QC to turn into as much of a soap opera as it has now. Especially given how bad he is at writing arguments (see: Dora vs. Marten recently). That micro-arc was truly painful to read, because it managed to be both uncomfortably accurate and wish-fulfillingly inaccurate at the same time.
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Fair enough. Our semantic problem seems to be the word "pandering." It has stronger connotations than I think you intend, connotations that in my mind make it synonymous with selling out.
Let's just call it a language barrier.
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Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
Thanks Jackie... Now I feel friggin' old (33)... And I'm new audience... lol
As for the person who joined just to rant... Whether you read it again or not, your opinion matters very little when you lack the fortitude to stand by your convictions. I'm not going to get into whether I agree with what you said or not, but the manner in which you said it and attacked the other members of the forum was unacceptable.
The forums are a place to discuss that which concerns us. Whether you agree or disagree with the comic or Jeph or anyone else for that matter, the point is DISCUSSION. THAT IS ALL.
lol
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I fail to see how this is "selling out". Good fiction needs conflict, and I'd rather watch something meaningful than Dora and Marten fighting about little stupid stuff. At least this way we'll see some more character development.
This is completely within Sven's character; he likes Faye more than he's willing to admit, that's why he cut back on the womanizing, but he's drunk, and he hasn't actually changed. He just told himself that he has.
And I think this is why Faye is screwing him in the first place; he's the safe guy for her to date because she knows he's going to mess up and do something like this, so that when he lets her down, she can be angry at him for a while instead of her dad.
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I fail to see how this is "selling out".
Nobody said it is.
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This nice little comic made me, like many other people, simply have to go to the forum just to see what people would say about it.
I find it interesting that people seem to assume this is fan-service for the male audience... So I registered to say this...
As a woman, I have to say, Sven is definitely kinda hot looking... and unlike most sex scenes (Read: Porn) where the woman are generally being treated as living sex toys at best, with no effort to give pleasure to, nor portray the woman as enjoying the sex... Gina was drawn in the last panel in such a way that she sure did seem to be enjoying herself... *laughs* I'm blushing almost as much as her just thinking that. Probably doesn't help matters much with that being one of my favorite positions... :oops:
...
It probably also doesn't help that Sven seems genuinely concerned about Faye in this comic, something I've never seen him before, which seems to show he has real feelings about her. Now don't get me wrong, I'd totally be pissed unbelievably at my boyfriend, and (like Faye will probably do) never be able to believe that he actually was remorseful about having sex with another woman, and if I was Faye, I'd probably break up with him immediately if I find out...
That still doesn't stop it from being strangely sweet... Mostly because it doesn't seem like guys are ever actually genuinely remorseful for cheating, especially not during the act. And in that way, it's sorta sweet.
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New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
Wait, you mean the bands aren't made up?
...just kidding. At least 40% of the reason I read QC (and 90% of the reason I read the forums) is Jeph's awesome music taste.
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Mm... Forgive my ignorance, but what's so very bad about writing a bit of what you suspect your fans want? After all, if you don't please your audience, you lose them; if you lose them, you're out of a job; having a job keeps you fulfilled and full of food; having food keeps you alive; being alive is kinda nice... sometimes.
A story is nothing without conflict, be it internal, interpersonal, or maybe just with the world in general. I say, nice move, Jeph. We have lots of fun things to look forward to now!
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Are you forgetting that the ending to The Breakfast Club completely sucked because Ally Sheedy's character decided to become a "normal" girl and hooked up with the jock?
Seriously I love that flick but I always turn it off before that part. The whole point of the movie was to accept who you are and then, BAM, crazy-cool art-chick is in a stupid baby-blue dress.
SHENANIGANS.
I totally agree! I always felt that was soo unnecessary... I felt the same way about Shrek- why did Fiona had to be an ogre to end up with Shrek? The whole point of the thing was that looks didn't matter and the princess could love the monster... but noooo- they had to go and make them look the same, because, I don't know, people might be shocked!
I think that was more for those of us who wondered about the mechanics of such a relationship.
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One would imagine an ogre has an ogre-size dick, and that a petite little think like anorexic Fiona couldn't handle it unless she became fraulein ogress fiona with her ogre-sized woman-parts.
SHENANIGANS.
I think you mean "svenanigans".
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I didn't say that Jeph has "sold out", I just think that he has been increasingly writing to his new audience instead of his old audience.
If Jeph is anything like other authors I've encountered, the audience he is primarily writing for is himself.
All power to him.
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I was going to talk about the difference between silly sexual innuendo and fanservice by comparing...um...the Austin Powers movies to some random anime girl whose boobs bounce around whenever she talks. I'm glad that tangent was dealt with.
Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
No, I am 16, and I emailed Mr. Jacques to fork over his entire list of artists. Oh no, my identity! To keep this short, I am a collector of all music, and when I saw all of these names of bands and music people I never heard of I wanted them all (I was not aware of indie stuff (movies, art, music, blah blah) until high school. At least I found this place).
When I criticize specific periods of time in a fiction, I always want to finish the fiction itself to see its effect in later pages/issues. Because this is still ongoing, I have to guesstimate this.
I have a big crush on Dora, and I would like to see her and Marten work themselves out, because small and large speed bumps in a relationship is much more accurate than a fusion of dreams and reality. I'm not sayin that Faye/Marten is pure evil. I would be slightly intrigued by the sudden change in direction (if this ever happens), and I would stay with QC to find out how Mr. Jacques would twist this fairytale-esque (god damn it, I should've just said picturesque) scenario to keep me interested. I have a prejudice against those early princess/prince Disney movies and anything else that resembles such (doesn't every intelligent adult?). Groundbreaking art, horrible storylines and character depth (yes they were children's movies, but Wall-E and Ratatouille. All I have to say). We all want the story to go somewhere, but it's ultimately up to Mr. Jacques to form the storyline. But enough about dreams, hahahahaha...
KeepACoolin: yes sir, I need to read Dune...
I read a story to witness the change of personality, mannerisms, whatever, of the characters involved - the conflict and the conclusion (notice how I neglected to say resolution). Change keeps me interested, and comedy/tragedy definitely helps. Now, I really enjoyed Sven's evolution from an idiot to somewhat of a thinking idiot, and this current situation with the naked gal and his ego looks like some sort of a test - a gauge for us to figure out how much Sven changed. We now have our clear answer.
Perhaps we should create another thread about Marten leaving Dora in the future for Faye, because it seems to be buzzing around a few peoples' minds xD but we are here to talk about Sven.
Quick note about Breakfast Club: the characters were supposed to portray their stereotypes so we can step back and see if the stereotypes really fit. Some did and some didn't, the characters wanted to be themselves. People don't completely fit into stereotypes...I think.
Mm... Forgive my ignorance, but what's so very bad about writing a bit of what you suspect your fans want?
Forgiven. Take a look at some really really bad anime or manga. You will soon discover that your brain presently loses its integrity and will slide out of your ears. Characters with nice bodies, perfect personalities, happy endings...just...just go watch a Disney movie a few hundred times and tell me if it gets boring or not. Thankfully, Mr. Jacques avoids this entirely, and weaves a plotline that entices new readers and keeps old readers reading. I would like to say that he lives outside of any circle of influence, but I do not know for sure. If he does, it's the other way around, and he writes a story that he likes, and waits if any fish bite, as opposed to writing something that he knows fish will snap jaws at.
Did I answer your question completely?
All of Jeph's central characters are basically fucked up in some way:
Yes! He's following a pattern here...
Especially given how bad he is at writing arguments (see: Dora vs. Marten recently). That micro-arc was truly painful to read, because it managed to be both uncomfortably accurate and wish-fulfillingly inaccurate at the same time.
Perhaps we should create yet another thread about current Marten/Dora problems. I have an itchy feeling that the micro-arc hailed a new beginning, if you know what I mean. Neither parties gave up ground, and we can almost assume that the characters still have that event playing over and over again in their heads. We shall see.
Returning to Sven...lol...you guys digress around a lot! That's good!
In a nutshell, I advise us all to wait and see to observe what Mr. Jacques (because I've said this a few times, I will ask you: is addressing Mr. Jacques as Mr. Jacques over-formal?) has up his sleeve. This could be the start of something interesting, like how Sven explains this situation to Dora and Faye without getting neutered (or if he tells them at all!), (hopefully) avante-garde Faye woes, or a slip-up leading to a confrontation, or something even better. Or something really fuckin' bad. We'll see - I have faith in Mr. Jacques to deliver us from superficial chaos, and I do not think he will disappoint. Why are we all still here?
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If Jeph is anything like other authors I've encountered, the audience he is primarily writing for is himself.
Actually, and as a writer myself, I would say that most writers I've known (lots) including myself are writing for a theoretical audience of people who aren't us but who are exactly like us in every way because god damn it I am the smartest person in the room.
And I sincerely hope nobody read that and needs me to post a winky smiley face to know how that is supposed to sound.
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I didn't say that Jeph has "sold out", I just think that he has been increasingly writing to his new audience instead of his old audience.
Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
I'm fine with story progression, I just think that it looks to me like the strip has become more of a job to him - because it literally is, unless his wife pays all the bills, which I don't think is the case.
A lot of strips over the past couple years have looked to me like someone who is writing something but thinking in the back of his mind that he'd really rather be writing something else. I'm not sure he ever wanted QC to turn into as much of a soap opera as it has now. Especially given how bad he is at writing arguments (see: Dora vs. Marten recently). That micro-arc was truly painful to read, because it managed to be both uncomfortably accurate and wish-fulfillingly inaccurate at the same time.
Jaysus. It's a comic.
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I fail to see how this is "selling out".
Nobody said it is.
At least not you.
My apologies.
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Wait, a redhead? :D Well yeah, it's Gina Riversmith (who, indeed, had Sven already liking her music) all right, but STILL?
I'm so confused right now.
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Wait, a redhead?
Reminds me of a joke, that does.
A 13-year old boy is talking to his grizzled sailor uncle. "Uncle Jeff, have you ever slept with a blonde?"
"Arr, Billy! Many's the fine blonde I've slept with!"
"How about brunettes?"
"Arr! I've slept with any number of brunettes, each one better than the one before!"
"Have you slept with any black-haired women?"
"Arr! Haven't I ever, boy!"
"Have you slept with any redheads, Uncle Jeff?"
"Nary's the wink I've gotten with them, me boy!"
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Wow, everyone's talking about "subtle lines, subtle lines"... I've seen more subtle lines than a cokehead with a well concealed habit.
That being said, I agree that the comic is a little over the top, but it certainly keeps me coming back and reading it.
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Well, this strip is where the comic officially went about a thousand miles over the shark for me.
I guess Jeph is writing to his audience now, which is fine, but that audience won't be including me anymore.
I totally agree. I gave up on the comic about a year ago because of the overlong story arcs, needless drama/sex, and tendency to create awesome comic relief characters and then drop them in a month.
(My roommate pointed this one out to me and I was curious about its reception. Hence, a brief return.)
Sidenote: anyone wondering what happened to Faye's chest scar? The guest comic had it and none of Jeph's own have.
A lot of strips over the past couple years have looked to me like someone who is writing something but thinking in the back of his mind that he'd really rather be writing something else. I'm not sure he ever wanted QC to turn into as much of a soap opera as it has now. Especially given how bad he is at writing arguments (see: Dora vs. Marten recently).
QC was smart aleck over-your-head music and fiction/fantasty/politics references. Now its fights and sex. I have to agree with this.
I think that was more for those of us who wondered about the mechanics of such a relationship.
Like Beauty and the Beast.
Final sidenote: I don't understand why people are saying he is catering to his audience when a good part of his audience seems to not like what just happened, or at least not totaly be comfortable/satisfied with it. Thoughts?
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Joined for this one message, because ya'll make me sick, and I'll never be visiting this pathetic subforum again.
The author is drawing and writing this comic to tell a story. It's not written to mirror the reader's relationships, or make them feel better about their insecurities, or to end in a way that makes them happy. If a plotline makes you unhappy, you are NOT allowed to say that it's a bad story just because of that. If you do, you need to seek professional help, because you're getting emotional validation out of a comic strip.
If you don't like the story, stop reading. But to claim because there's a sex scene (and a damn funny and story-appropriate one at that) that he's doing "fanservice" (especially stupid because there's only one minor character in the strip, and probably not one that freaky obsessives want to see naked), or that an activity is "out of character" when you don't *know* the character (you just think you do), makes you a worse-than-useless fan. What the hell is it with people who say "fanservice"? L9osers.
I'm not saying that Jeph is Charles Dickens, but man, if Dickens had this horde of buttheads hounding him as he read each page, he would have never finished anything.
In a story, characters do things because a) the author thinks it will be fun, or b) because it advances the plotlines of that story. They don't do it solely to please the reader unless they're a hack writer, and in a lot of cases they SHOULD be doing things that piss the readers off, or at least make them uncomfortable. I think Jeph does a damn fine job myself.
P.S. Don't bother emailing me about what a bad person I am. Fake email address, and PMs will be laughed at because they prove my point.
I am giving you a high five! :)
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I fail to see how this is "selling out". Good fiction needs conflict, and I'd rather watch something meaningful than Dora and Marten fighting about little stupid stuff. At least this way we'll see some more character development.
This is completely within Sven's character; he likes Faye more than he's willing to admit, that's why he cut back on the womanizing, but he's drunk, and he hasn't actually changed. He just told himself that he has.
And I think this is why Faye is screwing him in the first place; he's the safe guy for her to date because she knows he's going to mess up and do something like this, so that when he lets her down, she can be angry at him for a while instead of her dad.
I agree with your first two points. As for the reason Faye has hooked up with Sven, besides her loneliness and a desire to "scratch an itch" and the obvious spark between them, could it not also be that she knows that he is not going to change and so she doesn't have to worry about a having to deal with the eventual compromises required for a long-term relationship.
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I have pretty much nothing to say on this except I'd like to see Steve actually jump over a shark on water skis.
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While drunk. And with the Monster riding shotgun.
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Also, I think the last panel was meant for humor rather than fanservice, at least that's how I took it.
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Also, I think the last panel was meant for humor rather than fanservice, at least that's how I took it.
The facial expression is awesome.
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Final sidenote: I don't understand why people are saying he is catering to his audience when a good part of his audience seems to not like what just happened, or at least not totaly be comfortable/satisfied with it. Thoughts?
I think Jackie Blue is upset that comic is no longer just made up of jokes and references to indie bands.
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I have pretty much nothing to say on this except I'd like to see Steve Wil actually jump over a shark on water skis.
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There's a lot of talk about whether or not Jeph is pandering to his fan base. Nobody who isn't Jeph can tell how much of the comic is really what he wants to write instead of just what he thinks his audience will like...but I'm not clear on why this is bad. In general, authors, artists, musicians etc who don't perform what people like don't meet with much success. Are some people suggesting that he should write storylines that people won't like, lose readership, and lose his income for the sake of staying true to his art? A lovely idea, but not exactly practical.
Plus there's the fact that an artistic endeavor like this is supposed to be fun for the artist as well as the reader. I'm a writer (sort of) myself; I post stories on a story board in serial form, and sometimes I like throwing in a cliffhanger or something just to mess with people's minds. At that point I have two mediums: the story itself, and people's reactions to the story. I like creating that kind of emotion; I like imagining the "Nooooo!" and seeing comments with people arguing about the possible outcome. It's FUN. Which, if I were to guess, is why Jeph writes/draws this comic in the first place - to have fun. I don't think that makes Jeph, me, or anyone else less of an artist.
Keep in mind, though, that if I were the writer of this comic, I'd be scanning the forums and snickering at the reactions my latest comic got - angry, happy, angsty, or otherwise. Hehehe...mind games are FUN!
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There's a lot of talk about whether or not Jeph is pandering to his fan base. Nobody who isn't Jeph can tell how much of the comic is really what he wants to write instead of just what he thinks his audience will like...but I'm not clear on why this is bad.
artists who are creating what they think their audience wants rather than something that they love tend to creating poorer works.
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seconded
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There's a lot of talk about whether or not Jeph is pandering to his fan base. Nobody who isn't Jeph can tell how much of the comic is really what he wants to write instead of just what he thinks his audience will like...but I'm not clear on why this is bad.
artists who are creating what they think their audience wants rather than something that they love tend to creating poorer works.
Can you give examples of this? And how can you differentiate between the two? How do you ever truly know what's going on in an artist's head unless the artist jumps out and says "Yeah I don't really give a crap about this; I'm just doing it to make some money/be popular!"
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There's a lot of talk about whether or not Jeph is pandering to his fan base. Nobody who isn't Jeph can tell how much of the comic is really what he wants to write instead of just what he thinks his audience will like...but I'm not clear on why this is bad.
artists who are creating what they think their audience wants rather than something that they love tend to creating poorer works.
Can you give examples of this? And how can you differentiate between the two? How do you ever truly know what's going on in an artist's head unless the artist jumps out and says "Yeah I don't really give a crap about this; I'm just doing it to make some money/be popular!"
(i'm playing devils advocate)
uhhh...
there's that guy who's written a thirty book fantasy trilogy... piers anthony? anyway, you can see what happened after... fuck, book five? iunno.
laurell k hamilton (her books weren't always poorly disguised pornography)
indie bands who SELL OUT
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Just to be clear, the fanservice is, in my view, not the sex scene itself but rather the drama that he is creating by setting up a Faye-Sven Explosion.
Also, I think Jeph has been pandering to his audience (which, for the past couple years, has become mostly composed of people a decade or more younger than him who have very little in common with him) for a while now; this strip just made it super-obvious.
You don't know who my audience is.
And if "doing something I thought would be interesting" is "pandering" then OH NO I GUESS I'M GUILTY
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I really liked this one! sven is in character, and we've been expecting this forever.
Not only that, but the final panel is just sexy. The art does what it's supposed to: it shocks with its nudity, and the story shocks with sven's dastardliness. Both on the same panel.
http://lunchbagart.tumblr.com/
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Can you give examples of this? And how can you differentiate between the two? How do you ever truly know what's going on in an artist's head unless the artist jumps out and says "Yeah I don't really give a crap about this; I'm just doing it to make some money/be popular!"
The Pussycat Dolls vs. Fugazi.
Britney Spears vs. Silkworm.
Van Halen vs. Black Flag.
Stephanie Meyer vs. Knut Hamsun.
I mean I can do this pretty much forever, but you get the idea. When you sacrifice artistic integrity for cash, it turns from art into a job.
To be fair, I don't think any of the left-column peoples ever really had artistic integrity. Or even artistry, with the possible exception of Eddie Van Halen, who was at least talented. In their defense, I don't think most of them even know what music is supposed to sound like, so you can't really blame them for "selling out." They were out to begin with.
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Why do i get this feeling that Jeph just wanted to mess with all of you ? And now he's laughing his @ss off reading all the flame we've got here ? Maybe you're overthinking all of this ? Maybe Swen is just having a "withdrawal halucinations" and dreaming this scene in the shower ? :D :D :D
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so what you're saying is "we're ignoring these people because I don't like their music"?
All I'm saying is that there are better examples of sellouts. For instance, people who were "in" orginally, a la pre-"Beverly Hills" Weezer. Although some say that they sold out after Pinkerton.
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Don't get me wrong, I love Dora, but the Faye-Marten thing is something we would all love to see.
No, it isn't, and quite frankly, I'm starting to get annoyed at how often people keep saying that. Not all of us are closet Fay+Marten shippers.
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http://lunchbagart.tumblr.com/
I love that link, but why did you post that here?
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Because he just lost his job and is spamming the interwebs is my guess.
Why does this thread have like five thousand newbies? Are we infested with sock puppets, or is Sven's infidelity that engrossing?
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Are we infested with sock puppets, or is Sven's infidelity that engrossing?
It's very engrossing infidelity, Surgoshan.
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Well, as one of the newbies, I just stumbled on QC a little over a week ago, and this is the first chance I had to register and spend some time reading so i could make some semi-informed comments. Without this strip, I would have done so anyway, maybe a few days later. Things like this tend to be lightning rods, for good, bad or both. This is one of those moments that makes people form solid opinions and feel compelled to express them.
A few less than random thoughts:
The poster who went on the rant about people here being pathetic: I'm a volunteer admin on the Car & Driver forums. Every so often, we get somone who will wander in and say almost the same thing in the middle of some heaeted debate about "Ford vs Chevy", or "OHV vs. OHC". I see nothing pathetic about people having strongly held opinions and expressing, no matter the topic. Pathetic is refusing to admit the other side could have valid points, and really pathetic is feeling morally smug because you think you dressed down a bunch of folks who didn't need your input. To paraphrase a friend of mine: "I may be opinionated, but you're an ASS, and I can change my mind."
The whole "selling out" issue. I've always found this amusing. Most musicians are into music as an artistic effort. But the side effects of fame of money are generally a factor as well. Some think you can't become a rich, famous musician without selling out. But if you keep making music you like and you also happen to be damn good at it, what's wrong with the money and fame? Okay, I am well aware that there are other definitions of selling out, like allowing your music (or words, or art, or any other personal talent based effort) to be used for fast food advertisements. I think any artist who has fans will at least occasionally consider what the fans want to see. This doesn't mean you're pandering to the fans. I don't see this strip with Sven as pandering. My take is that it's another bit of character development, and is also setting up some potential future story arcs. It odes not seem out of chracter with Sven in any way. Every now and then, stirring the pot is good. I like QC, but strip after strip of the characters sitting around the couch talking would get old real quick.
Jeph is doing what any good artist with a fan base SHOULD do: Challenging your existing mind set and opinions. There have been strips I liked and ones I disliked. But I won't stop reading just because I disagreed with something.
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Don't get me wrong, I love Dora, but the Faye-Marten thing is something we would all love to see.
No, it isn't, and quite frankly, I'm starting to get annoyed at how often people keep saying that. Not all of us are closet Fay+Marten shippers.
...aaaand this
...Pathetic is refusing to admit the other side could have valid points, and really pathetic is feeling morally smug because you think you dressed down a bunch of folks who didn't need your input. To paraphrase a friend of mine: "I may be opinionated, but you're an ASS, and I can change my mind..."I think any artist who has fans will at least occasionally consider what the fans want to see. This doesn't mean you're pandering to the fans. I don't see this strip with Sven as pandering. My take is that it's another bit of character development, and is also setting up some potential future story arcs. It odes not seem out of chracter with Sven in any way. Every now and then, stirring the pot is good. I like QC, but strip after strip of the characters sitting around the couch talking would get old real quick.
Jeph is doing what any good artist with a fan base SHOULD do: Challenging your existing mind set and opinions. There have been strips I liked and ones I disliked. But I won't stop reading just because I disagreed with something.
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...comments...
From one cranky old guy to another: I like your attitude.
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I have always thought people who leveled accusations of "selling out" were basically angry because the artist wasn't "selling out" to them. If the artist were producing work the complainant liked, the complainant would have nothing to complain about, and would be causing other people to complain that the artist is..."selling out."
It seems somewhat sophomoric to come onto an artist's website, and complain that you don't like the work and infer he should change it to suit your tastes. If you want work that isn't what he produces, why are you bothering to continue reading it? Or are you making the assumption that when you insult him that he will respond by slavishly throwig away his own moral compass and following yours instead?
And more importantly to me, why are you wasting my time posting on this site that Jeph is a sellout instead of starting your own damn forum and complaining there that you sold out. It would be more sensible after all. You could sit there at you desk and draw the art, post it, and save all the middlemen and confusion by immediately complaining about how the work is shite and you've sold out. Because the minute you start offering up your work for someone else to look at, judge, and enjoy (or not) you have begun the process of selling your soul for money. Just like every other artist who has ever lived. And if you want to actually earn a living at it, you might as well slit your own throat because of course, you can't survive and not pander to the people you want to sell your art to.
And meanwhile we (those of us who actually like his work) can all stay here and enjoy the....cartoon. It is a cartoon, you realize, right? We're not speaking of Van Gogh or Renoir. Jeph may one day be looked back at as one of the greatest artists of his generation. But you can bet if he does get there, it won't be by listening to [eople accusing him of selling out.
*sits back and waits for everyone to cry*
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You don't know who my audience is.
Wait, I thought you didn't read the discussion forums anymore?
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sigh
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Remember that Sven told Faye he doesn't consider them exclusive or anything...and it didn't seem like he was really expecting it anyway.
What happened is (by my understanding) in-character and expected in a "holy crap there's nekkie people on QC today" way.
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man i just realised how incredibly non-erotic the comic is
i'm assuming that it was done like that on purpose
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No, it isn't, and quite frankly, I'm starting to get annoyed at how often people keep saying that. Not all of us are closet Fay+Marten shippers.
Some of us aren't even in the closet. Dora drives me up a wall, and pretty much has from day one.
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I just want to ask, cause it seems to not be brought up yet.....
How is Sven having sex with a hot drunk girl, whom he admits to liking, even if it is only at an artistic level, whilst he himself is also drunk (I gather this from the little drunk bubbles floating over their heads) jumping the shark. Two people get wasted, have sex. Not that uncommon. Sven trying to rationalize his actions is also normal. Just cause you know you shouldn't do something doesn't mean you won't do it anyways.
Besides how can a dude having a one night stand be jumping the shark when there has been a vigilante with a transforming scooter and a talking PC with a freakin laser beam in it's tummy?
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I'm pretty sure it's because Jeph said something to the effect of, "If I draw two people having sex," in the literal act, that he's jumped the shark. Mainly because such a thing would be NSFW. I don't think he's jumped the shark or nuked the fridge. I'm a pretty long-term reader (Started reading in 2005, a lot earlier than when Dora and Marten got together, so I'd put it around Julyish?), and it seemed in character to me. My first thought was, "Uh oh," but more towards "Sven is gonna be in some deep shit," not, "Oh, no, they jumped the shark!"
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sigh
*giggle*
I'm with Jackie Blue on this still. Sorry guys.
And while you're around Jeph, what happened to Faye's scar?
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I'm pretty sure it's because Jeph said something to the effect of, "If I draw two people having sex," in the literal act, that he's jumped the shark. Mainly because such a thing would be NSFW. I don't think he's jumped the shark or nuked the fridge. I'm a pretty long-term reader (Started reading in 2005, a lot earlier than when Dora and Marten got together, so I'd put it around Julyish?), and it seemed in character to me. My first thought was, "Uh oh," but more towards "Sven is gonna be in some deep shit," not, "Oh, no, they jumped the shark!"
And when I said that I'm pretty sure I was thinking of full on explicit sex.
People have been saying my comic "jumped the shark" since literally the 50th comic. It is a useless term.
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Perhaps it is the shark who has jumped the comic.
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Perhaps it is the shark who has jumped the comic.
This isn't Soviet Russia.
Well, I came to the discussion forum to post my opinion about this comic. I'm not saying it's artistically invalid, or whatever. I just didn't really like the comic for various reasons. I didn't say I'd stop reading, or try to hold you (Jeph) hostage to my opinions or anything. I also hope I didn't say it in an offensive way. Is it really out of line to talk about comics I don't like as well as ones I do?
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@SirMeowMeow: Some of our compadres threatened abandoning QC because of the change in content. I don't think we are trying to stifle opinions (alright I'm not), but
everything is based on perspective. Perhaps Mr. Jacques just loves ridiculous situations. I initially thought QC was set in the near future, especially after the transforming scooter episode and the man-sized purple rat with mexican garb
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it's nice Sven is developing a conscience, and that Faye is getting laid, but I'm still confused as to when Sven ever committed himself to Faye, or even agreed to give up being a philandering strumpet.
Can someone with encyclopedic knowledge of the archives point me to Sven giving up on casual sex?
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He didn't.
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He gave up on casual sex after Faye confronted him about it. He tried to apologize and then got mauled by the vespavenger (though we didn't know it was her at the time.
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=686
Later he turned down sex from a bottle blond of previous acquaintance in Faye's presence.
The sequence of events was, Get hit on and compare it to opening a bottle of hooch in front of an alky (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=794). He tried to back out of it and then Faye showed up and gave him an easier excuse (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=795). They have a genuine conversation (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=797).
In short, Faye told Sven he was a jerk. He agreed, did his best to change. She told him he was a jerk. He agreed, and changed some more. They started hanging out a lot (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=869) and pushing eachothers' buttons (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1072), then she initiated sex (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1079). Sven, seeing it as a genuine relationship, for once, was ready to take it to the next level... and then Faye blew him off (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1114).
Which would have been fine! He would have gotten over it, she would have gotten over it...
Except that she shows up to hang out and the fuck (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1198). And fuck. And fuck.
It has become, de facto, a relationship. She told him, point blank, "You sleep with someone else and I'm gone." He played it flippant, but it's apparent that he's regretting where this evening has gone.
Why is there drama? Because he wanted more, but she pulled back. He pulled her in. She wasn't willing to accept less. And now he's fucked up.
That's drama. And, oddly enough, it's realistic.
Welcome to Questionable Content.
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Shit. I post at length, pointing out where Sven gave up on teh one nighters and The Man Himself comes in and shuts me down... ninja style.
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needs moar bamboo forests, katanas, and lacquered masks.
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And if "doing something I thought would be interesting" is "pandering" then OH NO I GUESS I'M GUILTY
Guilty? All righty...I sentence you to an eternity and a day of writing and drawing comics you want to, in complete disregard of the silly and ignorant masses who somehow "get" the "message" you are allegedly stuffing into online entertainment.
Me, I just like reading the comic. I have my own issues with the characters but that's WHY I read the comic. As a writer myself, I understand the irritation involved with the "passengers" trying to tell the "pilot" how to fly his aircraft.
Pilot away, Jeph. I'll be back here in Coach class, snacking on peanuts, enjoying the ride.
And to keep focus on the whole "Oh, Sven..." thing:
Thanks again, Jeph. That scotch wasn't gonna drink itself. Hooah!
S
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I'm not sure what to make of it either. I feel like maybe it's wrong of me to think that (somehow) but it definitely colors my thoughts. If I read a lesbian comic with lots of sexual thoughts from the female protagonist, I would be pretty uncomfortable to find out it was drawn by a man. Somehow that feels pornographic in the hands of a man in a way that it doesn't if it's drawn by a lesbian. Is that wrong? I'm not sure. I'd feel the same way about a comic that contained lots of explicit thoughts and experiences about a male protagonist if it was drawn by a woman, by the way. It seems like vicarious exploration of fantasies rather than something honest. This is obviously more extreme than how I feel about QC sometimes, but I'm just making an argument.
I'm really not sure how I feel about my opinions on this, but I do hold them pretty strongly. I'm happy to debate them, though, and I'm also happy to change my mind.
Ok, so you're not comparing today's QC to Lesbian Pirates from Outer Space. You're comparing the latter to some hypothetical comic that is about lesbians but drawn by a man. It seemed like a strange criticism for today's comic, given that it was about straight sex (which is presumably a topic that a married heterosexual man would have some knowledge of) and written from the man's (Sven's) perspective.
Actually I can understand the point, if not the context. For instance, I have a fair number of female friends and we make sexual jokes and stuff about eachother. When the girl who admittedly has had a crush on me does so it feels far more like sexual harassment than when the lesbian does. It's a similar sort of thing.
To be fair, I don't think any of the left-column peoples ever really had artistic integrity. Or even artistry, with the possible exception of Eddie Van Halen, who was at least talented. In their defense, I don't think most of them even know what music is supposed to sound like, so you can't really blame them for "selling out." They were out to begin with.
Actually I have it on good report that while most members of the Pussycat Dolls ARE in fact probably tone-deaf, at least one of them is also a classical violist.
That's fairly musical by nature.
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Actually I can understand the point, if not the context.
your inability to be comfortable around your straight female friends doesn't mean that the point is valid
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No, it does, the other straight female friends are fine.
It's a valid point. It just doesn't necessarily apply.
which does make sense.
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it's not a valid point, though
it's all inferred; it's entirely subjective
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It's not invalid though, even if it is subjective. For example, I'm a lot more comfortable with a black rapper using the N word than a white rapper.
Look, this really isn't a big deal to me. I just resent the implication that my opinion is invalid because you disagree.
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For the record, I never meant to imply that your point was invalid, just strange. And I was responding to something that wasn't actually your point (I don't think).
If what you were saying is that it's somehow more problematic for a strait man to portray heterosexual sex acts in his comic then it is for a lesbian to portray lesbian sex acts in hers, that would imply that it is okay for lesbians to make their sexuality public in a way that is off limits to heterosexual men. This is the reverse of how it usually works. People who don't look twice at a strait couple kissing in public react strongly to two women kissing in public. I find this reversal of the double standard a bit odd, but again, it probably wasn't your point.
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To be fair, I don't think any of the left-column peoples ever really had artistic integrity. Or even artistry, with the possible exception of Eddie Van Halen, who was at least talented. In their defense, I don't think most of them even know what music is supposed to sound like, so you can't really blame them for "selling out." They were out to begin with.
Actually I have it on good report that while most members of the Pussycat Dolls ARE in fact probably tone-deaf, at least one of them is also a classical violist.
That's fairly musical by nature.
Touche. I stand corrected.
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sigh
Wow. Jeph said "sigh". This must mean he's really exasperated at everyone. But wait. He didn't post in capitals. So he's just kidding. Oh, no, but he also didn't put an exclamation point after it, so maybe this is an acronym meaning "Simple Idiots, Go Home". But he didn't put a smilie face after his comment, so he must be serious.
For the sarcasm challenged, the preceding was sarcasm, tinged with irony, intended to be humor. Or maybe it was humour, with a touch of sarcasm, meant to be ironic.
O hell, whatever!
For Jeph: Sorry. You created the comic and went public. The djinni is out of the bottle. You are now stuck with us, all of us. From the snarky, pain in the ass indie music lovers to the cranky old guys, from the near obessive 'net stalker types who sends you 20+ emails a week with ideas for the comic to the people who horribly mis-interpret EVERY thing you say and do. We're here and we won't go away.
Which is good.
For no matter how much you might get annoyed, frustrated or simply completely dumb struck, you've got FANS, and rather passionate ones. That's way better than many web comics have managed. I have no doubt it's hard work, and there are times you might want to just flee in terror, but you are a damn good artist who is telling a story people want to see and read. I hope you can keep it up for another 1300+ strips.
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I'm not cranky. I'm eeeeeyvil.
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But I never found the sex scenes to be purely titillating. They build up the individual characters, and part of these characters is that they talk about, and have, sex. Which isn't that unrealistic. In fact, as a woman, I do tend to talk about talk about these things in front of men. So, I just think it's good characterization.
Given the things a couple of my friends have said (and done) while at the pub recently I fully agree with this point. Girls talk and girls shock :P
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Ooohhh, his intern is threatening to tell on him. I'm guessing him come clean.
I'll confess, I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out, but at the same time, I'm sort of cringing at the thought of the dust-up this is going to cause.
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Ooohhh, his intern is threatening to tell on him. I'm guessing him come clean.
I'll confess, I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out, but at the same time, I'm sort of cringing at the thought of the dust-up this is going to cause.
Well since now all is lost, maybe he could fuck the intern too. :|
and then commit suicide.
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Fuck that stupid intern. No, not literally. Well maybe, but that's not the point.
The point is that Sven and Faye are not exclusive, and it's none of her (the intern's) damned business. Yes, Sven and Faye both seem to think that maybe they are, or should be, or something, even though they said they weren't, but that's not the point either. The point is that the intern is being a stupid bitch.
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If he really existed, I would buy Sven a beer.
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He didn't.
Thanks for clearing that up! :) And for being so professional with the comic. I heart regular updates. And it's really amazing seeing how much the art has improved when going back to the early comics and then seeing the latest. Keep up the good work!
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It's not invalid though, even if it is subjective. For example, I'm a lot more comfortable with a black rapper using the N word than a white rapper.
Look, this really isn't a big deal to me. I just resent the implication that my opinion is invalid because you disagree.
the point is invalid because it's entirely subjective, not because i disagree
it's like saying "green is better than blue" and then when asked why you say "because i like green more"
For the sarcasm challenged, the preceding was sarcasm, tinged with irony, intended to be humor. Or maybe it was humour, with a touch of sarcasm, meant to be ironic.
O hell, whatever!
sarcasm is a form of irony
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I think Martin may go back and form reality from his dream and cheat on Dora with the love seat. meanwhile a fight happens between them and they break up. Martin gets a sex change and Dora decides to get one as well. Then they get back together. Faye and Sven end up killing each other mob style and his intern gets the insurance money.
Hanners ends up going to a mental hospital because she accidentally wet the bed while drunk and was never seen again.
And all the computer friends die in a fire. DIAF
OHHHHHHHHHH SNAP
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who the fuck is martin
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the point is invalid because it's entirely subjective, not because i disagree
it's like saying "green is better than blue" and then when asked why you say "because i like green more
No, it's like you saying "green is better than blue", me saying "blue is better than green", and those both being opinions.
The blanket statement that "all forms of humor should be equal" or "perspective shouldn't matter" is not somehow true on its own merits.
Seriously, can we just let it go? I feel like a tool arguing this much about the content of a comic. I just am unwilling to see it end on the note of you saying me being wrong is somehow fact. I'm just stubborn, I guess. Can we agree to disagree?
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the point is invalid because it's entirely subjective, not because i disagree
it's like saying "green is better than blue" and then when asked why you say "because i like green more
No, it's like you saying "green is better than blue", me saying "blue is better than green", and those both being opinions.
The blanket statement that "all forms of humor should be equal" or "perspective shouldn't matter" is not somehow true on its own merits.
Seriously, can we just let it go? I feel like a tool arguing this much about the content of a comic. I just am unwilling to see it end on the note of you saying me being wrong is somehow fact. I'm just stubborn, I guess. Can we agree to disagree?
man i'm not going to let you get the last word on this if you keep saying that your reasoning being entirely subjective doesn't invalidate your argument
don't make me do it
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There are some things that can only be talked about subjectively: humor/art happens to be one of them. There is no such thing as an objective conversation about a comic.
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who the fuck is martin
He lives with Fay, in the same apartment building as Hannelore. They're all in some alternate reality version of QC, where everyone has the same personalities and does the same things but their names are different.
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I just am unwilling to see it end on the note of you saying me being wrong is somehow fact. I'm just stubborn, I guess. Can we agree to disagree?
Because this is the internet, no. No one can ever agree to disagree.
Secondly, the very fact that Sven feels bad about sleeping with someone is character development. And because there is character development, the story is moving forward. With the story moving forward, I am happy. No stagnation pls kthx
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
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who the fuck is martin
He lives with Fay, in the same apartment building as Hannelore. They're all in some alternate reality version of QC, where everyone has the same personalities and does the same things but their names are different.
Crazy world. I heard they use different font though.
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They type their papers up 1.5 spaced in 13 point wingdings with .89" margins.
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I do think this will lead to a good shake-up, and that's completely separate from my other (pretty minor) criticisms. I like the way Sven obeyed the letter and maybe not the spirit of his relationship with Faye and how he knows he's going to get his shit wrecked in some way but thinks it's unfair. It should be interesting, especially considering Marten's likely to take Faye's side and Dora Sven's. It should be fun to read.
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I do think this will lead to a good shake-up, and that's completely separate from my other (pretty minor) criticisms. I like the way Sven obeyed the letter and maybe not the spirit of his relationship with Faye and how he knows he's going to get his shit wrecked in some way but thinks it's unfair. It should be interesting, especially considering Marten's likely to take Faye's side and Dora Sven's. It should be fun to read.
and for the last fucking time, it is completely unfair damnit
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I didn't say that Jeph has "sold out", I just think that he has been increasingly writing to his new audience instead of his old audience.
Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
Ok, I don't agree with the description of the "new audience" but sure, the comic moved away from its original concept and humor style to a more soap opera model. This happened a while ago. But you know what? This ALWAYS happens.
In every webcomic I've ever read that had a vibrant cast and plot arcs of some sort that depended on character interaction/evolution and wasn't a gag-a-day format. The original type of humor gets replaced, initial cast members get dropped, and thing... oh no! change. This isn't awful, it's just how it is, because most first concepts aren't fertile enough to carry on through in their initial format for longer than a year or two. At that point either you continue reading because you enjoy the new format, or you go away. But it's useless to complain in this case, imo. And also imo, QC is one of the better types of comics because (at this point) the soap opera is engaging and enjoyable. I have much more issue with comics that don't go the soap opera route and instead try vainly to keep on doing their original format after the writer already burned out on it, without any of the charm or wit. Ie: most print comics in newspapers that started off cute and fresh, and are head-thumping dull after a few years. Actually, you'll notice that even there, a lot of writers switch to soap-opera after the first two-year period--this is just how storytelling works.
So the way it goes is: first mostly humor, a little story-->characters develop, soap-opera-ish story takes over-->soap-opera becomes ridiculous, everyone gets sick of the thing.
The first step is fine, the second step is fine too, and the "good" authors in my mind are those that can stop before the third. And I don't think Jeph is anywhere near the 3rd step yet.
(As far as webcomics go, I think "Boy Meets Boy" worked pretty well with this pattern: it started off as a humor comic, as the humor fell off it moved towards drama (and the drama was specifically provided to replace the humor as the main interest/draw) , and then the author ended it just about the time the drama was getting so thick it was about to consume itself. If anyone remembers the children's book Dragons series by Patricia Wrede, it was even applicable there: first book, clever and funny. Second book--less funny, but the romance and drama made up for it. Third book... um, ugh.)
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I didn't say that Jeph has "sold out", I just think that he has been increasingly writing to his new audience instead of his old audience.
Old audience: Indie rockers in their early-mid 20s.
New audience: Teenagers who think the bands mentioned in the strip are made-up.
Ok, I don't agree with the description of the "new audience" but sure, the comic moved away from its original concept and humor style to a more soap opera model. This happened a while ago. But you know what? This ALWAYS happens.
In every webcomic I've ever read that had a vibrant cast and plot arcs of some sort that depended on character interaction/evolution and wasn't a gag-a-day format. The original type of humor gets replaced, initial cast members get dropped, and thing... oh no! change. This isn't awful, it's just how it is, because most first concepts aren't fertile enough to carry on through in their initial format for longer than a year or two. At that point either you continue reading because you enjoy the new format, or you go away. But it's useless to complain in this case, imo. And also imo, QC is one of the better types of comics because (at this point) the soap opera is engaging and enjoyable. I have much more issue with comics that don't go the soap opera route and instead try vainly to keep on doing their original format after the writer already burned out on it, without any of the charm or wit. Ie: most print comics in newspapers that started off cute and fresh, and are head-thumping dull after a few years. Actually, you'll notice that even there, a lot of writers switch to soap-opera after the first two-year period--this is just how storytelling works.
So the way it goes is: first mostly humor, a little story-->characters develop, soap-opera-ish story takes over-->soap-opera becomes ridiculous, everyone gets sick of the thing.
The first step is fine, the second step is fine too, and the "good" authors in my mind are those that can stop before the third. And I don't think Jeph is anywhere near the 3rd step yet.
(As far as webcomics go, I think "Boy Meets Boy" worked pretty well with this pattern: it started off as a humor comic, as the humor fell off it moved towards drama (and the drama was specifically provided to replace the humor as the main interest/draw) , and then the author ended it just about the time the drama was getting so thick it was about to consume itself. If anyone remembers the children's book Dragons series by Patricia Wrede, it was even applicable there: first book, clever and funny. Second book--less funny, but the romance and drama made up for it. Third book... um, ugh.)
overcompensating?
also jeph agrees with you on the audience thing
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and for the last fucking time, it is completely unfair damnit
If you could maybe respond to someone else for a bit that'd rock. I don't know what you mean or who you are or if you're even being serious or just trolling me, so...yeah.
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For the sarcasm challenged, the preceding was sarcasm, tinged with irony, intended to be humor. Or maybe it was humour, with a touch of sarcasm, meant to be ironic.
O hell, whatever!
sarcasm is a form of irony
[/quote]
Which was part of the point.
There are some things that can only be talked about subjectively: humor/art happens to be one of them. There is no such thing as an objective conversation about a comic.
Well, to be obssessive about this, you could discuss technical issues like number of panels, fact issues like the pacing (multiple pages over weeks = only a few hours of story time) or in the case of print comics, page content and print quality.
But your point, and I agree, is that any discussion of any form of art is always going to be primarily subjective. As for the validity, everyone's opinion is correct, even if only to that person. (Well, unless you are schizophrenic (sp?), then it could get complicated)
Regarding selling out: Many have ackowledged that Jeph's ability at drawing has improved and consider it a good thing. Why, because his story telling abilities improved (granted, my opinion) and thus the story has become more invovled and complciated, is it considered "selling out". The comic has been running for 5 1/2 years. It would be truly weird if things HADN'T changed. Every artist puts something of themselves into their work. Picasso's paintings became more dramatic, Frank Lloyd Wright's designs evolved, and there is hardly an author I can think of whose story telling ability didn't improve with time. For me, the same applies here. Without sounding too heavy, maybe the reason the story has changed (improved, in my opinion) is becaue the writer has matured, not because he's selling out.
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But so what'd be really great, is instead of all this Sven crap, some comics about Steve.
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got a pen? Got some paper? Get to it.
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Last time someone asked for more comics about Steve, we got...
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1273
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It is perfectly normal fir a man his age to get smashed and insert his alcohol bottles into the soaps opera his life has become.
*looks around nervously*
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
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sigh
For Jeph: Sorry. You created the comic and went public. The djinni is out of the bottle. You are now stuck with us, all of us. From the snarky, pain in the ass indie music lovers to the cranky old guys, from the near obessive 'net stalker types who sends you 20+ emails a week with ideas for the comic to the people who horribly mis-interpret EVERY thing you say and do. We're here and we won't go away.
Agreed. It's a simple rule I apply to freshman who get angry during debates: If you can't handle it then you may need to know when to leave. A forum is a place of opinion and if you are going to react poorly then maybe you should go back to not frequenting the forums. Or delete them. Whichever.
I just am unwilling to see it end on the note of you saying me being wrong is somehow fact. I'm just stubborn, I guess. Can we agree to disagree?
Because this is the internet, no. No one can ever agree to disagree.
XKCD agrees: http://xkcd.com/386/
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i think that you are thinking about this in the wrong way. i have said this before, i think.... these forums are like jeph's house. jeph's house on the internet for imaginary friends. he has invited you over and you are free to mingle with the other guests, but always keep in mind that it is his house. you cannot ask him to leave, and i do not think it is a good idea to recommend that he leave. he can make you leave, though.
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Really? Why do folks here assume that Marten and Faye are destined to be the hottest shit ever?
Beats the hell out of me. Kind of like Faye used to do Marten. Until "the Talk" I vacillated between wanting Faye and Marten together to wanting Faye to be run over by a truck for being a abusive wretch. I cheered for Marten when Dora 'stole' him. (no, I DON'T really think Dora stole anything). And I cheered Faye for being honest. Which is why I think she deserves honesty from Sven, too.
For Jeph: Sorry. You created the comic and went public. The djinni is out of the bottle. You are now stuck with us, all of us. From the snarky, pain in the ass indie music lovers to the cranky old guys, from the near obsessive 'net stalker types who sends you 20+ emails a week with ideas for the comic to the people who horribly mis-interpret EVERY thing you say and do. We're here and we won't go away.
Nope. We're here forever and ever and Ever and EVer and EVEr and EVER.... Mwahahahaha!*
And, Bartender, I resent being called old. I'm _ _ _ years young! Now where's that Old Grand Dad? er, Old Crow? Ah, hell, gimme a beer.
*Yes, yes, I know I can be kicked out of these forums. But I'll still be out there, somewhere... wouldn't you rather keep an eye on me?
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Of course you're not old; after all, I'm not...
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We will NOT discuss this being old crap. You hear me? And get off my lawn!
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I think one day jeph will just close the whole forum so then an unofficial fanforum will get set up which jeph will completly ignore until curiosity gets the better of him and it all ends up in a hideous lawsuit with him trying to put an injunction on the unofficial site.
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
:roll:
I never realized this was like...a college class or a newspaper article. I'll have to pay more attention when I spell martin's name next time. I wouldn't want to HURT HIS DAMNED FEELINGS! :angel:
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
:roll:
I never realized this was like...a college class or a newspaper article. I'll have to pay more attention when I spell martin's name next time. I wouldn't want to HURT HIS DAMNED FEELINGS! :angel:
Dear that entire quote tunnel:
You suck.
<3,
me
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dear me,
yes. :laugh:
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
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Right on Jeph, I can respect that. I always kinda thought that guy was a bit of an attention whore myself. Nice job on the comic tonight.
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
Man that was a great big can of whoop ass! Go you!
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I think i'll go home and rethink my life.
But was there some point to this thread because I totally lost it?
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I think i'll go home and rethink my life.
But was there some point to this thread because I totally lost it?
It says "Sven" in the title so perhaps we were talking about Swans and someone just made a typo?
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Actually it appears it started out as someone requesting more comics of Steve instead of ones involving Sven.
My questions it now this, because I've seen this talked about a bit before with more comic request of steve. I've read through the entire comic series and can't seem to figure out what the steve-crush is all about. I must be missing something.
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work.
As I recall, he spoke of your _audience_, and you said "You don't know who my audience is." Your audience (as opposed to terms like "intended audience", "target audience", etc) is not something that has anything to do with your motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards your own work. Your audience is the people who actually read your comic. He also said you were pandering to a particular subset of that audience. Now, I can see how this could be offensive. But the minute you insist on saying some forms of criticism are not valid or are not permitted, this forum is not a venue for serious criticism. And, hey, maybe you don't want it to be; that's your call. I do think it's a bit ridiculous to say he wasn't banned for having criticism - I suppose that was true in the technical sense: he wasn't banned for _having_ a view about the comic, see, he was banned for what that view was.
I'm not sure you know who your audience is either; you seemed to think (this is my interpretation of what you said in the newspost) reactions would be split in the recent Marten/Dora fight.
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
"play the martyr " that seriously made me laugh out loud. Haven't you heard of sarcasm? Get a sense of humor please!
Also I doubt I would hurt the QC cast's feelings because I spelt their name wrong but that would be amusing if it ended up in a one of the next strips.[see my quickly done not so great example but whatever ]
[img width= height=]http://i44.tinypic.com/72zyn7.jpg[/img]
"SORRY fAY AND sW3N!! :'("
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Dear that entire quote tunnel:
You suck.
<3,
me
I think you suck more for giving a very uncreative response.
Really being mean for no reason isn't that amusing.
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I keep wanting to post it, even though it is probably no longer applicable.
Oh well.
"The content! It is questionable! Why did no one warn me!"
"My eyes!! The goggles do nothing!"
*peer*
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
Complete agreement on your right to do as you wish. For all my comment about "stuck with us", I meant it much more as a friendly compliment. As I said, you have created something people enjoy or find some level of connection with.
This is still Jeph's playground, and he DOES have the right to take his toys and go home.
As a volunteer admin on the Car & Driver forums, I have had similar conversations with the moderators and the paid web staff. We had a user hack the forum and make some changes, which many felt were an improvement. But if this had been the real world, the comparison would be that someone broke into your house and re-arranged all the furniture. Even if the layout was better, or the Feng Shui was stronger or whatever, they still BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE!.
To apply that idea to this discussion, why would Jeph (or anyone who hosts a forum) continue to invite in some one who had insulted him, bad mouthed him in front of others and had been warned to stop but continued anyway? I wouldn't tolerate someone like that visiting my home, and I doubt most of you would, either. Friendly debate, even sometimes disagreement, yes. But the admin of the forum has the right to decide what is over the line. If people leave because of it, that is their option as well.
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I think Jeph is a pretty cool guy. eh writes questionable content and doesn't afraid of anything!
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JESUS.
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
I think the comic's awesome and I bought a t-shirt. Please don't ban me?
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I think you suck more for giving a very uncreative response.
Really being mean for no reason isn't that amusing.
Heck, I thought it was funny. It seems like sarcasm and goofy self abuse doesn't go over well here. Every time I actually act like Guido Sarducci I get accused of being a bigot or something. Well,,,YEAH. That's the POINT :laugh: But donna worry. Itsa notta so bad :wink:
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(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii171/Lash2828/Comics/Powerstreakcomic.gif)
DUDE WHAT
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dude. That's creepy.
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I wasnt aware marten could make an angry face
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Right on Jeph, I can respect that. I always kinda thought that guy was a bit of an attention whore myself. Nice job on the comic tonight.
Why don't you just suck his cock while you're at it?
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oh snap son you gonna take dat shit from that pizza-chowing reptile
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dude is named after an achewood character you KNOW he is gonna bring the sass
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But the minute you insist on saying some forms of criticism are not valid or are not permitted, this forum is not a venue for serious criticism. And, hey, maybe you don't want it to be; that's your call. I do think it's a bit ridiculous to say he wasn't banned for having criticism - I suppose that was true in the technical sense: he wasn't banned for _having_ a view about the comic, see, he was banned for what that view was.
I'm not sure you know who your audience is either
A) I never said that, I banned one guy because he was being a cock and had been a cock for a significant span of time.
B) I know who my audience is far better than some random dude on the internet. I've met and/or interacted with far, FAR more of them than anyone else has. my argument stands. most of the shit I say in my newsposts is sarcastic or ironic anyway.
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Sassy VS. Classy
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
:roll:
I never realized this was like...a college class or a newspaper article. I'll have to pay more attention when I spell martin's name next time. I wouldn't want to HURT HIS DAMNED FEELINGS! :angel:
who the fuck is martin
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But really the only reason I actually came in here was to post this somewhere in comic discussion:
(http://AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
THE FUCK
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who the fuck is martin
Its the more common way of spelling Marten.GAH I'm such a bad person for not obsessing over fictional characters name spelling. Let me get my pen and paper so I can write their names over and over and over for eternity because its soo fucking important.
You don't have to obsess over it or play the martyr and call yourself a bad person. You could just pay a little more attention to how people's names are spelled. The fact that they're fictional is irrelevant. Spelling someone's name wrong shows that you don't give a shit about them, so why should anyone give a shit about what you have to say about them?
:roll:
I never realized this was like...a college class or a newspaper article. I'll have to pay more attention when I spell martin's name next time. I wouldn't want to HURT HIS DAMNED FEELINGS! :angel:
who the fuck is martin
you know, that guy with white hair who was a coke head and starred in "the Jerk," THAT guy.
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http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1341
this is totally emo of me but I think Faye's reaction in this strip is awesome.
The fact she says nothing, yet the reader knows exactly the hurt, really underscores the skill of the writer.
Kudos Jeph!
It really requires the entire history of Faye and Sven to fill out the depth of the moment.
and when I say Kudos! I don't mean the granola bar from the 1980s
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go back to old people land, old person
fucking 1980's granola bars are not wlecome in now
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Kids these days! No respect, mumble, mumble.
Mind you, an 80s Granola bar would be stale by now.
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They still make Kudos...
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Actually I have it on good report that while most members of the Pussycat Dolls ARE in fact probably tone-deaf, at least one of them is also a classical violist.
[low blow]
I would argue that the two are not mutually exclusive.
[/low blow]
Poor violists: the blonds of the music world.
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Kudos had granola in them? Damn! All this time I was fooled by the candy,and here they were trying to get something HEALTHY into me.
But it's true. http://www.kudosbar.com/kudos/index.htm
Can't trust ANYONE.
On another topic, Sven. For reasons I'm not even certain I understand, he's become one of my favorite characters, possibly because he's got the most growth potential built in, and in part because I've always had a thing for guitarists with long hair. Damn, I'm shallow. I find a guy who is honest about his jerky behavior easier to deal with than someone who is nice and yet lies, especially when they lie to "avoid hurting anyone".
I'm also still reeling over the Kudos revelation. Damn! ;)
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Too bad, so sad. Sven gave Faye her comeuppance, and now Jeph has caused me to prepare to shop for some rum.
It's all your fault, Jeph: You suggested rum in my favorite comic to date: 1341 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1341).
Got a preference? I'll drink it in your honor. Your art brings me much happiness.
S
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I never liked Kudos.
I am also interested to see if Sven grows or not; he also has much potential to let inertia take over. Most people would rather stick to what they're 'comfortable' with (that is, the familiar), even if that comfort is found in what those on the outside would consider rather painful ways. Having sex with many, many women is not exactly painful (so long as it's not all on the same night) if you're fast on your feet, so Sven also has a good deal of motivation to simply let it go. I feel happy just in seeing him not, for once* that we know of, get away with no consequences.
I've read through the entire comic series and can't seem to figure out what the steve-crush is all about. I must be missing something.
You and me both. Steve's okay, and he was part of one of my favorite guest strips (when he was trapped in a closet for weeks), but Steve, he's just zis guy, you know?
*Yeah, yeah, twice, if you count the Vespavenger thing. But I think he scored a nurse out of that, so it was somewhat mitigated.
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OH hell yeah, Sven could just go back to habit. So many people make the same choices because it's easy, and some repeat the same actions expecting that THIS time it will result in something good (isn't that a definition of insanity?). Of course, inertia works both ways -- a body at rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion, until either are acted on by an outside force.
I'm hoping Sven stays in motion.
And I'm STILL a little flabbergasted that, out of all the comics I've read or am reading, THIS is the one where I'm the most invested.
Also, I don't like Kudos, either, especially now that I know their dirty little secret.
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[img width= height=]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2105/kudosjb8.gif[/img]
BUT THEY ARE SOO GEWD
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Oh man, are THOSE what Kudos are? I frigging LOVE Kudos!
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god damn kudos are taking over
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Dammit, now I need to get some Kudos.
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there is hardly an author I can think of whose story telling ability didn't improve with time.
Smeyer? *ducks and runs*
I am not getting involved in the wankery. I love the comic and I am part of the aforementioned "new" audience.
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I've read through the entire comic series and can't seem to figure out what the steve-crush is all about. I must be missing something.
You and me both. Steve's okay, and he was part of one of my favorite guest strips (when he was trapped in a closet for weeks), but Steve, he's just zis guy, you know?
It's the fucking sideburns, dude. Those are HOT
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I've read through the entire comic series and can't seem to figure out what the steve-crush is all about. I must be missing something.
In my case, it's because my name is Steve and I also have wicked sideburns.
Also, Steve is less annoying than most of the rest of the cast.
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there is hardly an author I can think of whose story telling ability didn't improve with time.
Smeyer? *ducks and runs*
I am not getting involved in the wankery. I love the comic and I am part of the aforementioned "new" audience.
I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I did add "hardly" to that statement. The debate is subjective, but there are a few authors I'm sure we could drag out who have either plateaued or could be argued to have regressed. But they are rare, and most don't make it to the top of the pile, anyway.
Also agree witht he idea of Sven becoming a more likeable character, although maybe not my favorite. The last few strips show development; he may have screwed up (hm, literally) but now he has regrets. This increases my desire to keep reading and see what happens.
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You know, it just occurred to me that just because someone is likable doesn't mean they are good.
Sven seems likable but not very good. Faye seems good but not very likable.
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Likable scoundrels are a staple of fiction. There are even a few villains that are likable, at least on the surface.
If it wasn't true, con men and comedians would have a hard time of it :D
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You know, it just occurred to me that just because someone is likable doesn't mean they are good.
Sven seems likable but not very good. Faye seems good but not very likable.
Good point, and my description of Sven goes along. The apparent character development makes him more interesting and likable. But he's still not the kind of person in reality that I would want to be around much. He might make life entertaining at times, but the negatives would be a problem. Sven reminds me a little of a buddy of mine. He was quite a womanizer in our younger days, and I occasionally felt uncomfortable around his girlfriends, because I KNEW their wasn't going to be much of a long term relationship.
But he eventually changed. He's been married for almost 15 years and has a great wife and two adorable daughters. That last fact does make me believe a little in karma!
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Dear that entire quote tunnel:
You suck.
<3,
me
I think you suck more for giving a very uncreative response.
Really being mean for no reason isn't that amusing.
I'm going to print that out and stick it on my wall.
Then every morning I can wake up and see it and feel the special warm feeling that it makes me feel inside.
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Oh you guys are just so snarky.
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Sven reminds me a little of a buddy of mine. He was quite a womanizer in our younger days, and I occasionally felt uncomfortable around his girlfriends, because I KNEW their wasn't going to be much of a long term relationship.
But he eventually changed. He's been married for almost 15 years and has a great wife and two adorable daughters. That last fact does make me believe a little in karma!
Unless two adorable daughters is your code for "tiny, horrid harpies-in-training that make his every breath a weariness," I'm not sure I understand how this development affirms karma. Wait, maybe you mean "sexy, brainless little tarts guaranteed to attract predators like himself." That's more like Sins of the Fathers, though. You know, 'til the, hell, I can't recall what generation, but it always seemed a bit excessive.
To me, karma for Sven is Faye finding someone else after he's realized 'this one' means something to him. I.E. Sven is the only one to suffer, at least long-term.
Or maybe not. I admit I don't really get karma, being neither Hindu not Buddhist.
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Sven reminds me a little of a buddy of mine. He was quite a womanizer in our younger days, and I occasionally felt uncomfortable around his girlfriends, because I KNEW their wasn't going to be much of a long term relationship.
But he eventually changed. He's been married for almost 15 years and has a great wife and two adorable daughters. That last fact does make me believe a little in karma!
Unless two adorable daughters is your code for "tiny, horrid harpies-in-training that make his every breath a weariness," I'm not sure I understand how this development affirms karma. Wait, maybe you mean "sexy, brainless little tarts guaranteed to attract predators like himself." That's more like Sins of the Fathers, though. You know, 'til the, hell, I can't recall what generation, but it always seemed a bit excessive.
To me, karma for Sven is Faye finding someone else after he's realized 'this one' means something to him. I.E. Sven is the only one to suffer, at least long-term.
Or maybe not. I admit I don't really get karma, being neither Hindu not Buddhist.
Eh, fate, karma, Sins of the Fathers. Those of us who know him just consider it some form of those concepts that he had two daughters, and thus will probably have to spend a good part of his late middle age worrying about guys just like he was.
As for Sven and Faye, your idea has similar merit and amusement. It would serve Sven right, and Faye deserves a shot at a decent stable relationship. Given her issues, she will probably find her own ways to screw things up, but she still deserves the chance.
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He could tear down the house, too.
I think I suggested that.
If he were to do that it would be a more mature reaction than his "God forbid I do what I want!" blather.
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
Oh no!
You ask for criticism by doing something abnormal in a strip, know that people will comment on it, and then flip out when you don't like what they're saying?
How adult of you good sir.
You don't seem to mind that people who support you seem to think they know your motivations and what you thought.
Be consistent.
I think one day jeph will just close the whole forum so then an unofficial fanforum will get set up which jeph will completly ignore until curiosity gets the better of him and it all ends up in a hideous lawsuit with him trying to put an injunction on the unofficial site.
Agreed.
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Wow, finally read the whole thread, and just...wow.
Anywho, I love this comic, and I hope to make it to a con that Jeph is a guest at someday (He should totally go to Phoenix Comicon (http://phoenixcomicon.com/) 2010)
As far as new/old audience motivations, I could give a crap about the indie music stuff, I started reading it because a friend of mine sent me a comic with a Dune reference in it.
Concerning the main topic, if Marten possessed the physical strength he should kick the crap out of Sven for hurting his friend.
Also, wasn't Jackie Blue a chick? Everyone keeps saying "him." Weird.
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I am also not a camera. I am a llama.
I clicked on his view profile and it said female...I assume people are always truthful on the internet I suppose.
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This is MY website. I am literally spending MY hard-earned money so that YOU people have this place. If you don't respect that you WILL be gone.
I see no reason to tolerate the presence of those I find tiresome.
Right the fuck on, man. Websites aren't democracies, people! They are at best oligarchies, and usually they are autocracies, and you/me/we don't have any damn rights here or on any other site except what The People In Charge of the sites choose to give us.
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That's more like Sins of the Fathers, though. You know, 'til the, hell, I can't recall what generation, but it always seemed a bit excessive.
"The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Numbers 13:18
Anyway, yeah, I think karma is more like if you do something to hurt other people, you'll get what you deserve.
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"The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Numbers 13:18
I'd be lying if I said I understood that.
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Translation: G_d's merciful and patient, but if you think that just because He's merciful and patient He won't make you, your kids, your grandkids, and your great-grandkids pay for the bad things you do, guess again, boychick. So behave already.
Or at least that's my take on it.
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I always hated that bit. I can't help but interpret to mean he's mean as hell and not very trustworthy...Bad me, I know, but if you can't trust a god, who you gonna trust? And what's all that about visiting all that crap on my grandchildren? Hell, they didn't do anything wrong :| :x
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Heh, hell with Sven having "growth." Let's review:
1) Sven's a womanizer who sleeps around;
2) Seemingly, he always has;
3) He makes no bones about it and doesn't lie about it;
4) FAYE went after SVEN, not the other way around, knowing exactly who he was;
5) There wasn't a single string attached to their relationship;
6) He was upfront with her with who he was, she was upfront with what she'd tolerate, and they were both on the same page there;
7) She didn't want any manner of relationship with him but just plain hooking up, and told people so; and
8) He told her at the earliest possible moment he'd slept around.
How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Sorry, no sympathy for Faye here. If you demand monogamy, don't hook up - and it WAS a hookup, nothing more - with someone who's openly, admittedly poly. If you do anyway, then make sure you HAVE a committed relationship and you're on the same wavelength. If you don't bother to do that, to the point you tell your friends that the SO's nothing more to you than the ongoing 11 PM booty call, then spare us the "it hurts so much."
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How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Um, what?
Hockey =/= putting your penis inside of another person
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Sorry, no sympathy for Faye here. If you demand monogamy, don't hook up - and it WAS a hookup, nothing more - with someone who's openly, admittedly poly. If you do anyway, then make sure you HAVE a committed relationship and you're on the same wavelength. If you don't bother to do that, to the point you tell your friends that the SO's nothing more to you than the ongoing 11 PM booty call, then spare us the "it hurts so much."
Haven't you ever heard of someone saying one thing but thinking the complete opposite?
With her issues she didn't even know that she could trust or even be with a man. But here comes Sven, who by some standards just lays his dick on the table so I assume she thought why not? And I think she really wanted everything just to be a booty call but, she has her issues and needed to open up and learn to be with someone. Obviously, she shouldn't have gotten involved with Sven like that. But with that process she started developing feelings for him. As one would by not being in a relationship in a long time and thinking that its something more than it really is. Which was Faye's fault, she kept telling herself it was nothing but by saying that over and over doesn't make it true.
But truthfully no matter whatever problems one may have, sex no matter how impersonal you try and make it, its where people see you most personally and you're at your most vunerable so its envitable that this whole plotline would go down this path for Faye.
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How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Um, what?
Hockey =/= putting your penis inside of another person
the point is that the reasoning you're (those saying that sven is being a dick) using to justify saying that sven is a dick is logically unsound
srsly gaiz
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Look at the comic; it's Sven that's started to realise he was being a dick - we don't have to prove it.
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Sven is only thinking that because of a stupid social convention that apparently says that even if you're not monogamous, even if you've clearly stated that you're not monogamous, even if both parties involved have agreed that they're not monogamous, the guy is still a jerk if he fucks someone else.
The girl... it depends. Usually she gets a free pass because it was clear to everyone that the relationship was not monogamous.
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We don't see what he's thinking. He's thinking the situation is bad, which could very well be explicitly and exclusively due to the fact that he is losing Faye (who he's starting to develop feelings for)
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Sven was being a dick but it's hard to lump him in on the dickishness level of 'cheating boyfriend'.
Faye is the one who always insisted "We're not dating, we're just friends who happen to bump into each other once in a while. With our crotches." It's only the subtext of their relationship that places him in the wrong.
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How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Sorry, no sympathy for Faye here. If you demand monogamy, don't hook up - and it WAS a hookup, nothing more - with someone who's openly, admittedly poly. If you do anyway, then make sure you HAVE a committed relationship and you're on the same wavelength. If you don't bother to do that, to the point you tell your friends that the SO's nothing more to you than the ongoing 11 PM booty call, then spare us the "it hurts so much."
Just because she knew the terms of the relationship doesn't mean she can't feel upset when he does something she told him she'd be upset about. Generally, when people are sleeping together regularly, they feel something towards each other, especially when they also hang out sometimes rather than just getting busy. They don't have to be exclusive or in love to have a bond. I don't get where people got this idea that casual sex has to exist in an emotional vaccuum where you can't even give a shit about each other. Casual is casual, sure, but human beings still have feelings.
I mean, the fact that he has trouble enjoying sleeping with Gina and the fact that he feels sort of guilty about it afterwards proves that it's a two-way street. Even if what he did was technically okay, he knew it was going to upset Faye. Doing something you know will upset someone else is your right, but it is kinda a jerk thing to do.
Also, Sven's not poly. He just sleeps around. There is a difference.
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im really surprised by the outrage.
this topic needs to be derailed so everyone stops taking it so seriously.
who is rooting for team USA in the WBC?
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How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Sorry, no sympathy for Faye here. If you demand monogamy, don't hook up - and it WAS a hookup, nothing more - with someone who's openly, admittedly poly. If you do anyway, then make sure you HAVE a committed relationship and you're on the same wavelength. If you don't bother to do that, to the point you tell your friends that the SO's nothing more to you than the ongoing 11 PM booty call, then spare us the "it hurts so much."
Just because she knew the terms of the relationship doesn't mean she can't feel upset when he does something she told him she'd be upset about. Generally, when people are sleeping together regularly, they feel something towards each other, especially when they also hang out sometimes rather than just getting busy. They don't have to be exclusive or in love to have a bond. I don't get where people got this idea that casual sex has to exist in an emotional vaccuum where you can't even give a shit about each other. Casual is casual, sure, but human beings still have feelings.
I mean, the fact that he has trouble enjoying sleeping with Gina and the fact that he feels sort of guilty about it afterwards proves that it's a two-way street. Even if what he did was technically okay, he knew it was going to upset Faye. Doing something you know will upset someone else is your right, but it is kinda a jerk thing to do.
Also, Sven's not poly. He just sleeps around. There is a difference.
Exactly.
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im really surprised by the outrage.
this topic needs to be derailed so everyone stops taking it so seriously.
who is rooting for team USA in the WBC?
A Champion of Khorne suing for peace? The blood god would not be pleased. Pardon my ignorance, but what is the WBC?
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Also, Sven's not poly. He just sleeps around. There is a difference.
Thank you.
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im really surprised by the outrage.
this topic needs to be derailed so everyone stops taking it so seriously.
who is rooting for team USA in the WBC?
A Champion of Khorne suing for peace? The blood god would not be pleased. Pardon my ignorance, but what is the WBC?
World Baseball Classic.
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im really surprised by the outrage.
this topic needs to be derailed so everyone stops taking it so seriously.
who is rooting for team USA in the WBC?
I have to. Home country and all. Though Japan is probably going to be tough to beat.
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Hockey =/= putting your penis inside of another person
The word you might be looking for is "analogy."
Sven is only thinking that because of a stupid social convention that apparently says that even if you're not monogamous, even if you've clearly stated that you're not monogamous, even if both parties involved have agreed that they're not monogamous, the guy is still a jerk if he fucks someone else.
Yep, this is the whole last two weeks of angst in a nutshell. If I was in Sven's shoes, this conversation with Dora'd be right when I got my mad on. "I hurt her? What, you think we started dating and holding hands and stuff, then took each other's virginity or something? No. She jumped me, knowing who and what I was. She tells everyone we're not dating, but because she comes over a couple nights a week she suddenly owns me? You go back and tell her to try being honest with the next guy, honest with her friends ... and freaking honest with herself."
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I must have missed the strip where Sven made any promises to Faye or anyone else. Let's see, Faye hooks up with Sven, develops feeling for him, and therefore Sven should change his behavior (which Faye knew about going in) so she won't get hurt? Puhlease! If anyone's a jerk, it's Faye for not being honest with herself and Sven about what was happening as the relationship developed. This story line is fascinating, but it aggravates me that everyone is beating up on Sven because Faye is hurt. He did nothing that Faye should not have expected. Jesus, I'm posting to a forum about a comic strip. I have got to get a grip!
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Just curious if I'm the only person who thinks the following:
a) Faye got what was coming to her by deciding to get into a platonic, uncommitted relationship with a sexually promiscuous dude.
b) Faye being in that style of a relationship, but being infuriated at his conduct, is a huge double standard.
c) Sven's validation of that double-standard by feeling guilt is awful and sets a terrible example.
Basically, its ridiculous that Faye should demand to be treated as if she is in a monogamous relationship, while putting herself in a situation that excludes such exclusivity. The fact she QQs about it is pretty typical of womenfolk insofar as you commonly see some women demanding equality on one hand, but still demanding that doors be held open or dates paid for.
Hopefully this isn't what Jeph advocates in real life, or else we know who wears the pants in their relationship.
Anyway, serious argument is serious.
Edit: Also, great to see I'm not the only forum newfag who thinks this.
TL;DR: If ya liked it then ya shoulda put a ring on it, Faye =O
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Also, Sven's not poly. He just sleeps around. There is a difference.
Thank you.
I second that. I am /in/ a poly relationship and Faye and Sven's relationship is not so. It wasn't any sort of official thing but I know where Faye is coming from. It hurts. It's not that complicated.
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Hopefully this isn't what Jeph advocates in real life, or else we know who wears the pants in their relationship.
I think this is out of line - do you think he endorses everything Pintsize says, too? He hasn't noticeably painted any of his characters with the "this character's views represent those of the author" brush.
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How many people'd be calling him immature and a user if instead of being poly, he was a hockey player? "Faye, I like playing hockey." "Well, if I catch you around a hockey rink, I'm outta here." "Umm, hey Faye, I played hockey last night." "Then we're through."
Sorry, no sympathy for Faye here. If you demand monogamy, don't hook up - and it WAS a hookup, nothing more - with someone who's openly, admittedly poly. If you do anyway, then make sure you HAVE a committed relationship and you're on the same wavelength. If you don't bother to do that, to the point you tell your friends that the SO's nothing more to you than the ongoing 11 PM booty call, then spare us the "it hurts so much."
Just because she knew the terms of the relationship doesn't mean she can't feel upset when he does something she told him she'd be upset about. Generally, when people are sleeping together regularly, they feel something towards each other, especially when they also hang out sometimes rather than just getting busy. They don't have to be exclusive or in love to have a bond. I don't get where people got this idea that casual sex has to exist in an emotional vaccuum where you can't even give a shit about each other. Casual is casual, sure, but human beings still have feelings.
I mean, the fact that he has trouble enjoying sleeping with Gina and the fact that he feels sort of guilty about it afterwards proves that it's a two-way street. Even if what he did was technically okay, he knew it was going to upset Faye. Doing something you know will upset someone else is your right, but it is kinda a jerk thing to do.
Also, Sven's not poly. He just sleeps around. There is a difference.
Sorry. No sympathy for Faye. It's one of those "get a helmet" moments that life hands you. And the unbelievable double-standard is absurd.
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I am VERY concerned with what Jeph does and does not advocate.
Srsly.
If he enjoys pickled asparagus and promotes it's use I quit teh comic.
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Just curious if I'm the only person who thinks the following:
a) Faye got what was coming to her by deciding to get into a platonic, uncommitted relationship with a sexually promiscuous dude.
You do realize that "platonic" means idealized and metaphysical, right? And that when used in reference to relationships it means nonsexual? Their relationship is the total opposite of platonic.
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I think this is out of line - do you think he endorses everything Pintsize says, too? He hasn't noticeably painted any of his characters with the "this character's views represent those of the author" brush.
I think this is out of line - do you think I endorse everything Jeph writes about? I haven't noticeably written with the "everything this forum in this forum is opinion taken as fact"-pencil.
My point is that, regardless of whether or not he endorses anything he writes about, it sets a pretty terrible example on gender relations. You can be a major screenplay writer, novelist, or journalist and the words you write might not be what you believe, but they still can be endorsed by others.
Not only that, but you're deciding to ignore my question so that you can win some internet tuff guy argument. A++
To above post, thanks for clarifying, but you're still doing the same thing: Dodging the argument I put forth so you can seem like some Internet Proofreader. Perhaps, maybe, by chance, something of substance can be discussed =X
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I think this is out of line - do you think he endorses everything Pintsize says, too? He hasn't noticeably painted any of his characters with the "this character's views represent those of the author" brush.
I think this is out of line - do you think I endorse everything Jeph writes about? I haven't noticeably written with the "everything this forum in this forum is opinion taken as fact"-pencil.
My point is that, regardless of whether or not he endorses anything he writes about, it sets a pretty terrible example on gender relations. You can be a major screenplay writer, novelist, or journalist and the words you write might not be what you believe, but they still can be endorsed by others.
The line you crossed was in speculating on Jeph's personal life.
But anyway, you're right in that that's beside the point. My point is that there's a very big difference between saying "this is how things should be" and "this exists" - and unless you're going to say that no-one has a double standard like that in real life, "this exists" is not at all wrong. The QC characters are all too messed up in various ways for me to believe that they're being held up as some sort of ideal of perfection that people should aspire to be like. They're just ordinary people with ordinary problems [well, except Pintsize. And Hannelore maybe.], that's one of the great things about this comic.
Anyway, panel 5 seems to confirm that this is not as simple as an author saying "HURRR SVEN IS TOTALLY IN THE WRONG HERE" - there's shades of gray.
(edit: i hate when i hit quote instead of edit)
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Oh noes I crossed a line on the internet.
World ending.
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I sort of agree with you about this whole thing, mostly I just like my Schadenfreude a little too much and enjoy pointing out the shortcomings of others (I'm joking... sort of).
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c) Sven's validation of that double-standard by feeling guilt is awful and sets a terrible example.
Basically, its ridiculous that Faye should demand to be treated as if she is in a monogamous relationship, while putting herself in a situation that excludes such exclusivity. The fact she QQs about it is pretty typical of womenfolk insofar as you commonly see some women demanding equality on one hand, but still demanding that doors be held open or dates paid for.
Hopefully this isn't what Jeph advocates in real life, or else we know who wears the pants in their relationship.
He feels guilt frankly because he was starting to feel something more for Faye than just a good time. If he wanted just a good time he would have enjoyed getting some from Gina Riversmith. But don't act like Faye was the only one actually feeling something, and she didn't demand anything from Sven. She said what it was even though she was starting to develop more feelings for Sven and told him straight up that it would end if he went with someone else. She was just hoping on some miniscule scale that Sven would become more important to her, which is something most women like to "try" and change a man. And even for just a booty call you should know where that dick has been and seeing as Faye hasn't been in a "friends with benefits" relationship or even a normal relationship at all so why shouldn't it hit a little bit closer emotionally? Because sex makes you vunerable and with her problems what did you expect?
So she vents her own stupidity whats so wrong with that?(Perhaps at the wrong party but she knows really whose fault it is, by saying shes angry at gina or Sven she comes down to it she knows its her fault for getting into the situation in the first place)
I despise all the people on here that they say they give no sympathy to Faye like shes a total monster! You try handling your own father blow his head in front of you and see how you turn out....so yeah she can be a bitch sometimes....but frankly most of the people on the forums are a bunch of creepy bitches too and if by any off chance this would develop into "real life" and any of you get into this situation....I would still give you sympathy.
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Because when my dad shoots himself in the face, my life culminates in getting mad when I sleep with a playboy and he ends up laying it to someone else.
It has nothing to do with thinking she's a monster, it has to do with the fact that she's being defended and sympathized for making an awful decision with a decidedly awful person (morally). This is quite obviously only my personal opinion of this (and other) scenarios along these lines, but I can't spare a lot of sympathy for someone who makes such a miserable decision. You might be able to, and all the power to you, but I can't.
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Because when my dad shoots himself in the face, my life culminates in getting mad when I sleep with a playboy and he ends up laying it to someone else.
It has nothing to do with thinking she's a monster, it has to do with the fact that she's being defended and sympathized for making an awful decision with a decidedly awful person (morally). This is quite obviously only my personal opinion of this (and other) scenarios along these lines, but I can't spare a lot of sympathy for someone who makes such a miserable decision. You might be able to, and all the power to you, but I can't.
Seeing her dad shoot himself in the face actually culminates in life long...self-loathing like wondering what she could have done to prevent it...or self-doubt wondering what could have been...life long being closed mouth about her feelings...and life long not knowing whether she could be in a relationship with a man or being able to trust again
And I think most right out expressed their "Uh oh Faye shouldn't be doing this" right when Faye slept with Sven the first time and its obvious she shouldn't have done and a lot of people have said it was stupid. But really people do stupid things whether they realize or not and sometimes its just not the right idea to take the whole shitload of a mess they put themselves in and rub their faces in it.
Especially not to emotionally unstable people. Would you say to a person clinging to the very edge you deserve everything you got and youre a fucking moron so HA HA? And leave them to wallow and do god knows what?
Even though it can be hard to agree sometimes its better to just see that feelings are involved and that granted in the same situation how would you want people to treat you and react to your situation?
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making an awful decision with a decidedly awful person (morally).
Why is Sven a decidedly awful person morally? He seems to be completely up front about who he is and what he does. He's not lying to people or leading them on that I've seen. He's promiscuous and uncommitted. That's immoral?
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He's promiscuous and uncommitted. That's immoral?
Conventionally... yeah. Not that this place seemed put much stock in that kind of religious stuff until it became an excuse to beat on Sven.
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Morality has nothing to do with "religious stuff".
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Like I said in another thread, nobody really cared that he was promiscuous unless he was lying to get sex.
He was totally straight-up with Faye, unlike that girl at the bar comics and comics ago. I admit I hated him back then, but once I we got to know him I really warmed up to him.
Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.
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Morality has nothing to do with "religious stuff".
Not as such, no, but when it comes to where the idea came from that some particular behavior not inherently* harmful to others is inherently immoral, 9 times out of 10 the answer is religion.
*Faye was hurt by Sven's actions due to her issues, anyone else in the same situation would not necessarily have been equally hurt. And I'm talking about "promiscuous and uncommitted" generally anyway.
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Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.
That more or less hits the nail squarely on the head.
Sven and Faye had a mutual understanding that the casual sexual relationship they shared would come to an end if Sven decided to sleep with another woman, and while he doesn't view what he did with Gina Riversmith as wrong in and of itself, he's aware that it caused Faye no small amount of pain, and that it would bring about the end if she were to become aware of it, and for this he feels a understandable, reasonable measure of guilt and regret.
I think that Faye knew just what she was getting herself into from the start, understanding Sven's "romantic" history, and while she knew that the events we've watched unfold could and in all probability would happen, she didn't want to believe it. She found herself more attracted to him than she was willing to admit, hoped that everything would run smoothly and, maybe, in the end, that things would fall into place - she'd be prepared emotionally for a deeper relationship, and Sven would have developed feelings for her strong enough to warrant being exclusive. And maybe he has, though he has yet to find its way into his conscious mind. Maybe he'll seek to make amends and the two will come out stronger for the experience.
Or perhaps all will dissolve into chaos and calamity. This is Questionable Content, after all.
And hello! First post.
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I wonder if Faye took "I'm putting my deflowering days behind me" (#793) as a promise.
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I wonder if Faye took "I'm putting my deflowering days behind me" (#793) as a promise.
I don't think Gina was a virgin.
... Totally off topic but I really hope the first girl I have sex with isn't a virgin either. First times are awkward enough already, but the whole hymen breaking thing... *shudder*
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Sorry, Norton, I should have just said "third or fourth," but I figured that would make it sound like I couldn't remember which!
Raoulle, that's pretty much my understanding of it, too.
Guido, even if you completely ignore any religious stuff, some of the bad things humans do can easily have negative consequences for 60-80 years (3 to 4 generations), or even longer. Clearcutting forests, strip mining, polluting, overhunting/overfishing, wars, and so forth can have effects that affect everyone in the future. That's the kind of thing I took it to mean, not that God is petty enough to punish your great-grandkids for a minor offense.
Projekt, it's not platonic if people are having sex! :laugh: I don't see how demanding equality at work has anything to do with wanting to date guys who are gentlemen. I like having doors held for me, but if it's more practical, I'll hold them for guys, too.
Nolonemo, Faye let Sven know up-front that she expected him not to have sex with other women if they were going to be involved. Even before they did, he turned down one of his ex-girlfriends who wanted to hook up with him, because he wanted to impress Faye/have her think well of him.
Deux, I agree that Sven definitely isn't polyamorous, just not monogamous either. I know several people who are poly, and have had a few hit on me, and all of them negotiate that stuff carefully with their partners, from what I understand.
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Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.
Beyond that, let's not mistake things: Sven isn't the clearest thinking, most logical guy in the universe. Like most of the other characters, he was raised in this society and stuffed with society's shibboleths and myths. Of COURSE a gal who booty calls you twice a week gets to own your gonads, just because she says she does, and because she's pals with your sister and lives with your sister's SO. His emotions don't have to be any more sensible than Faye's over this.
Speaking of whom ... y'know, just because her father killed himself doesn't mean she gets a lifelong pass on acting like a grownup. Grownups get to claim that they're in committed relationships when they're willing to commit to a relationship. She wasn't willing to commit to anything whatsoever. (Heck, did she even ever tell Sven, at any point, that she'd stay faithful to him?) Sure, she was scared to, and she was right to be scared, but.
Although the person who really needs a clue now is Dora. Faye hasn't yelled at Sven, hasn't thrown things, and I don't begrudge her having a cry.
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Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.
That more or less hits the nail squarely on the head.
Sven and Faye had a mutual understanding that the casual sexual relationship they shared would come to an end if Sven decided to sleep with another woman, and while he doesn't view what he did with Gina Riversmith as wrong in and of itself, he's aware that it caused Faye no small amount of pain, and that it would bring about the end if she were to become aware of it, and for this he feels a understandable, reasonable measure of guilt and regret.
I think that Faye knew just what she was getting herself into from the start, understanding Sven's "romantic" history, and while she knew that the events we've watched unfold could and in all probability would happen, she didn't want to believe it. She found herself more attracted to him than she was willing to admit, hoped that everything would run smoothly and, maybe, in the end, that things would fall into place - she'd be prepared emotionally for a deeper relationship, and Sven would have developed feelings for her strong enough to warrant being exclusive. And maybe he has, though he has yet to find its way into his conscious mind. Maybe he'll seek to make amends and the two will come out stronger for the experience.
Or perhaps all will dissolve into chaos and calamity. This is Questionable Content, after all.
'zactly.
Sorry. No sympathy for Faye. It's one of those "get a helmet" moments that life hands you. And the unbelievable double-standard is absurd.
I can see how some people's interpretations of this might fall along a double standard, but I don't see how suggesting people have a measure of compassion for their causal sex buddies is a double standard. You never really explained to how or why casual sex ought to exist in a complete emotional vacuum.
Why does this have to be such a black-and-white issue? They were both forewarned, and I think *both* of their reactions are pretty reasonable.
Remember, Faye never yelled as Sven. She walked out, like she promised she would, and let out her anger by cursing at him when she was away. Even if it's a situation she should be prepared to deal with, that doesn't mean she should have to pretend it's okay with her when it's not.
I think the complete moral outrage against Sven is probably unwarranted, and while I can understand Dora's anger (she's sticking up for her hurt friend), I think she's probably wrong to freak out at him; but none of that means that it's wrong for Faye to feel bad about Sven sleeping with another girl.
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
I don't recall any explanation of just what Marten did wrong in his last fight with Dora.
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
I don't recall any explanation of just what Marten did wrong in his last fight with Dora.
Which one? In the most recent one, he admitted he purposefully hid information from her. That doesn't in any way justify her behavior, but it does earn him a couple at fault percentage points. Just a couple.
I'm having a hard time seeing where he was at all to blame for the fight over his haircut, though.
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Because most persons try to see both perspectives as if both had a bit of true. Both being completly wrong is a bizarre idea.
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and Faye deserves a shot at a decent stable relationship. Given her issues, she will probably find her own ways to screw things up, but she still deserves the chance.
Grrrrr. Faye deserves to have her karmic debt collected on like a bad check over, and over, and over.
Grrrr.
{/faye hate}
S
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
Not only is it funny, it is HYSTERICALLY funny. As I creep closer and closer to my crone years, I find myself laughing a lot about such things. Sure, there are situations and events where one person suffers through no particular action, choice, or fault of his/her own, and you can make a list. On the other hand, if investigated, most situations yield a little 'fault' -- or, to use the term I prefer, responsibility -- that can be shared out all around.
The comic is a good illustration of this. It's one of the reasons I keep reading it and come here to discuss it.
While throwing blame and laying faults on one side to absolve the other may give some a warm glow of self righteousness, in the end it's stunting and doesn't improve the decision making apparatus. Those who tend in that direction repeat themselves a lot, since they have no responsibility in what happens to them and thus no need to change. In fact, some say repeating the same poor choices expecting a different outcome is insanity. Mistakes are the best way found yet to learn. If you keep making the same mistakes, you aren't paying attention.
And that, ladies, gentlemen, and others, is just damn funny.
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I was going to start an ask Sven thread, but this will do.
Hi Sven
Great comic. Do you mind if I axe U a question?
Cool.
How long after you start having... uh, liking someone new should you tell your old girlfriend who left her husband for you that you just want to be friends? srsly. I'm not even kidding. Help me feel alright about this.
idkrash.
For the good times.
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That's the kind of thing I took it to mean, not that God is petty enough to punish your great-grandkids for a minor offense.
That quote was taken out of context here- immediately after it says "I visit the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation" it says "I visit love upon those who obey me to a thousand generations." It was meant to illustrate the fact that God's love outweighs God's wrath.
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
And that is all your fault, innit? :laugh:
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
And that is all your fault, innit? :laugh:
Oooo ooooo don't poke the artist! ;)
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
And that is all your fault, innit? :laugh:
Oooo ooooo don't poke the artist! ;)
*goes on poking spree*
I must.
I must.
^=^
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*goes on poking spree*
I must.
I must.
^=^
I was going to make a comment about "poking sticks" and "using protection" and "don't know where Jeph has been" but I decided it was tasteless and not good form. So, I'll just leave the bits here where you can see them and let you construct your own trouble :D
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*goes on poking spree*
I must.
I must.
^=^
I was going to make a comment about "poking sticks" and "using protection" and "don't know where Jeph has been" but I decided it was tasteless and not good form. So, I'll just leave the bits here where you can see them and let you construct your own trouble :D
I almost did the same thing with your "poke."
anyway, you started it.
*sticks out tongue*
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I almost did the same thing with your "poke."
anyway, you started it.
*sticks out tongue*
Careful -- some might construe that as an invitation...;)
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When you two get the room, can I be your cameraman?
S
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this is going nowhere very quickly. :angel:
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I would never be involved in scandalous behavior with a man of the cloth!
He has to take the cloth off first :evil:
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this is going nowhere very quickly. :angel:
Hey, you're the one steering.
"C'mon Mav...do some of that Pilot Shit!"
-- Goose
S
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Traaaaiiiiinnn wreeeeeck!
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We're going of the raaaills on a craazzyy traaiin.
*bitchin guitar solo*
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I suggest that Faye get back at Sven by hooking up with Wil Wheaton. That would be awesome.
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I suggest that Faye get back at Sven by hooking up with Wil Wheaton. That would be awesome.
That could NOT be the look Pintsize was going for...
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[/quote]
That could NOT be the look Pintsize was going for...
[/quote]
No, I saw Mr. Wheaton at PCC a few weeks ago, and he has a full beard, not a Flanders 'stach.
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
Maybe you intended for both parties to be at fault, but what comes across repeatedly is that the male characters have a tendency to apologize for the emotional crises manufactured by the girls. The female characters tend to overreact comically to what they perceive (through the foggy lens of their crippling neuroses and immature and unrealistic expectations) as their lovers' betrayals, slights and dishonesty. In fact, the offenses are usually nonexistent to the mind of a healthy person, leaving the men, including many male readers like myself, to sort of scratch their heads, saying "WTF?" It's nice to think that in real life relationships the two sides of the story always balance out to neatly apportion blame equally,(or at all) but the truth is some people torpedo themselves regularly with their own craziness, and the rest of us have to deal with it.
Not that there's anything wrong with that in a comic, but that's my take on it.
Frankly, I think it would be refreshing to see Faye with Pintsize, since he truly is amoral and has no sense of the consequences of his actions, and therefore wouldn't dance on her strings. "Apology? I don't understand the term." Not to mention that it would be very easy to abuse him, since he's the most emotionally grounded and resilient of all the characters and his body is made of plastic - modular, too. You can literally pop his little head off to punish him. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
Faye + Pintsize! Yay! :-D
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i think you just want some machine on woman action and you don't care who gets hurt
that aside i agree with your analysis
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It's funny.
Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.
Maybe you intended for both parties to be at fault, but what comes across repeatedly is that the male characters have a tendency to apologize for the emotional crises manufactured by the girls. The female characters tend to overreact comically to what they perceive (through the foggy lens of their crippling neuroses and immature and unrealistic expectations) as their lovers' betrayals, slights and dishonesty. In fact, the offenses are usually nonexistent to the mind of a healthy person, leaving the men, including many male readers like myself, to sort of scratch their heads, saying "WTF?" It's nice to think that in real life relationships the two sides of the story always balance out to neatly apportion blame equally,(or at all) but the truth is some people torpedo themselves regularly with their own craziness, and the rest of us have to deal with it.
Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?
srs question, do they?
or is it basically one sided?
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Does it matter? In a dozen or so characters, there is no chance of a cartoon being fully representative or balanced.
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yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?
srs question, do they?
or is it basically one sided?
Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you. "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction. So...conversation at end. Have a nice day! :)
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yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?
srs question, do they?
or is it basically one sided?
Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you. "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction. So...conversation at end. Have a nice day! :)
by grossly overreact i am saying that such a reaction would be seen by a dispassionate outsider as, well, a gross overreaction. see the bit where dora goes batshit at marten for not telling her about the girl who asked him out (and that she knew that he turned her down, incidentally).
by percieved slight i mean that there is, possibly, a slight there, but that it's mostly in the mind of the one percieving it. again, for an excellent example, see the above.
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yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?
srs question, do they?
or is it basically one sided?
Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you. "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction. So...conversation at end. Have a nice day! :)
by grossly overreact i am saying that such a reaction would be seen by a dispassionate outsider as, well, a gross overreaction. see the bit where dora goes batshit at marten for not telling her about the girl who asked him out (and that she knew that he turned her down, incidentally).
by percieved slight i mean that there is, possibly, a slight there, but that it's mostly in the mind of the one percieving it. again, for an excellent example, see the above.
Completely agree. The pattern is not that the girls don't admit to wrong-doing, but that their behavior appears to be genuinely hurtful when they do. Naturally Hannelore is going to apologize for going off the deep end and smacking Marten. Despite the fact that she's obviously not in her right mind - I mean, is she ever? - she really smacked him, really hurt him. I have yet to see one of the male characters essentially emotionally blackmail one of the guys into apologizing for his distorted perception of her innocent behavior. Sven was actually my hero, in that regard. He gave no shit and took no shit. And, at least in this case, was completely upfront about it. Same reason I like Pintsize. He is what he is and has neither the need nor the understanding of deception.
And he knows Faye wants him - especially with his pasted-on porn moustache and chest hair! What a hunk! (or, at least a chunk.) I mean, how many other babe magnets do you know that actually have their own EMF? :wink:
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yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?
srs question, do they?
or is it basically one sided?
Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you. "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction. So...conversation at end. Have a nice day! :)
Nice way to shut down the discussion without actually addressing the question.
Permit me to observe that you seem to be doing a bit of what Dora was doing - manufacturing an issue where none exists. For reasonable people, it's completely fair in a discussion to go back and forth over definitions until a consensus is reached. What, for instance, would your definition of "one-sided" or "gross overreaction" be? I think that if you put forward your own, for the purposes of discussion, then a reasonable person could agree to that and then the question can actually be discussed. As it is, you are the one who is really not interested in a discussion so much as a reaction, or else your own position can't be argued because it's weak.
Have a nice day, yourself. :mrgreen:
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
*giggles*
*waits for Mallie kite's frenzied pm*
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
That would explain the funny way he walks.
S
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
That would explain the funny way he walks.
S
I'm pretty sure it's beacause he's got balls this big (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=378).
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
That would explain the funny way he walks.
S
I'm pretty sure it's beacause he's got balls this big (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=378).
That was before he and Dora hooked up, I believe. Now she has the keeping of them, and he's not allowed to use them without her permission. :)
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He listens to AC/DC and admires their balls.
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For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.
The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.
in point of fact, jackie blue was not banned. his IP was banned which means that i, his sister who usually lives with him, as well as his roommates, were also banned because we share a network. he sent a cordial email to you, jeph, on my behalf, asking to simply ban him and not punish everyone he lives with as well. that email was never replied to (did you even read it?)
also, he was never warned, definitely not in the sense of "stop talking about such and such or i will ban you". if he had been warned as such then he would have went back to the music section, where 99.99% of his posts exist. of the 3,000+ posts of his, only 180 or so were in the comic discussion forum, and of those, less than a dozen were posts that you said anything negative about.
there are people on here who are far bigger pricks than jackie. they just aren't pricks to you, so you let it slide. jackie was a very good contributor to the music forum and to ban him from everything, including that, without any real or specific warning, is you, mr. jacques, being a prick. of course you have the right to be a prick on your own website, but it doesn't change the prick-ness of it.
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
considering Marten's upbringing, I would say he's been pussy-whipped pretty much since birth, so no matter what the "QC bitches" do to him, he will always be a bit of a pansy.
...besides, he CAN pee standing up- remember when he met Hanners?? (now that I think of it, he was in the ladies WC, wasn't he? hummmm...)
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Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing. If you like, I can give you links.
Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.
considering Marten's upbringing, I would say he's been pussy-whipped pretty much since birth, so no matter what the "QC bitches" do to him, he will always be a bit of a pansy.
...besides, he CAN pee standing up- remember when he met Hanners?? (now that I think of it, he was in the ladies WC, wasn't he? hummmm...)
Hmm think about what corporal punishment in his household was like? Thirty lashes and all that...and it's gonna hurt mom worse than it's gonna hurt him...errr....
then again, Marten's mom probably never grounded him. Just tied him up and said, "If you can get loose, you can go to the concert-out ot play with your friends-watch tv- etc...etc... Bet Marten is an escape artist from hell and thinks Houdini's a Piker since H didn't have to do it with a gag ball and leather mask on... :-D