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[nolonemo]

making an awful decision with a decidedly awful person (morally).

Why is Sven a decidedly awful person morally?  He seems to be completely up front about who he is and what he does.  He's not lying to people or leading them on that I've seen.  He's promiscuous and uncommitted.  That's immoral?

[Random832]

He's promiscuous and uncommitted.  That's immoral?

Conventionally... yeah. Not that this place seemed put much stock in that kind of religious stuff until it became an excuse to beat on Sven.

[Orbert]

Morality has nothing to do with "religious stuff".

[Superkid11]

Like I said in another thread, nobody really cared that he was promiscuous unless he was lying to get sex.

He was totally straight-up with Faye, unlike that girl at the bar comics and comics ago. I admit I hated him back then, but once I we got to know him I really warmed up to him.

Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.

[Random832]

Morality has nothing to do with "religious stuff".

Not as such, no, but when it comes to where the idea came from that some particular behavior not inherently* harmful to others is inherently immoral, 9 times out of 10 the answer is religion.

*Faye was hurt by Sven's actions due to her issues, anyone else in the same situation would not necessarily have been equally hurt. And I'm talking about "promiscuous and uncommitted" generally anyway.

[emeriss]

Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.

That more or less hits the nail squarely on the head.

Sven and Faye had a mutual understanding that the casual sexual relationship they shared would come to an end if Sven decided to sleep with another woman, and while he doesn't view what he did with Gina Riversmith as wrong in and of itself, he's aware that it caused Faye no small amount of pain, and that it would bring about the end if she were to become aware of it, and for this he feels a understandable, reasonable measure of guilt and regret.

I think that Faye knew just what she was getting herself into from the start, understanding Sven's "romantic" history, and while she knew that the events we've watched unfold could and in all probability would happen, she didn't want to believe it.  She found herself more attracted to him than she was willing to admit, hoped that everything would run smoothly and, maybe, in the end, that things would fall into place - she'd be prepared emotionally for a deeper relationship, and Sven would have developed feelings for her strong enough to warrant being exclusive.  And maybe he has, though he has yet to find its way into his conscious mind.  Maybe he'll seek to make amends and the two will come out stronger for the experience.

Or perhaps all will dissolve into chaos and calamity.  This is Questionable Content, after all.

And hello!  First post.

[Is it cold in here?]

I wonder if Faye took "I'm putting my deflowering days behind me" (#793) as a promise.

[Superkid11]

I wonder if Faye took "I'm putting my deflowering days behind me" (#793) as a promise.

I don't think Gina was a virgin.

... Totally off topic but I really hope the first girl I have sex with isn't a virgin either. First times are awkward enough already, but the whole hymen breaking thing... *shudder*

[Lyrical]

Sorry, Norton, I should have just said "third or fourth," but I figured that would make it sound like I couldn't remember which!

Raoulle, that's pretty much my understanding of it, too.

Guido, even if you completely ignore any religious stuff, some of the bad things humans do can easily have negative consequences for 60-80 years (3 to 4 generations), or even longer.  Clearcutting forests, strip mining, polluting, overhunting/overfishing, wars, and so forth can have effects that affect everyone in the future.  That's the kind of thing I took it to mean, not that God is petty enough to punish your great-grandkids for a minor offense.

Projekt, it's not platonic if people are having sex!    I don't see how demanding equality at work has anything to do with wanting to date guys who are gentlemen.  I like having doors held for me, but if it's more practical, I'll hold them for guys, too.

Nolonemo, Faye let Sven know up-front that she expected him not to have sex with other women if they were going to be involved.  Even before they did, he turned down one of his ex-girlfriends who wanted to hook up with him, because he wanted to impress Faye/have her think well of him.

Deux, I agree that Sven definitely isn't polyamorous, just not monogamous either.  I know several people who are poly, and have had a few hit on me, and all of them negotiate that stuff carefully with their partners, from what I understand.

[Ravenswing]

Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.

Beyond that, let's not mistake things: Sven isn't the clearest thinking, most logical guy in the universe.  Like most of the other characters, he was raised in this society and stuffed with society's shibboleths and myths.  Of COURSE a gal who booty calls you twice a week gets to own your gonads, just because she says she does, and because she's pals with your sister and lives with your sister's SO.  His emotions don't have to be any more sensible than Faye's over this.

Speaking of whom ... y'know, just because her father killed himself doesn't mean she gets a lifelong pass on acting like a grownup.  Grownups get to claim that they're in committed relationships when they're willing to commit to a relationship.  She wasn't willing to commit to anything whatsoever.  (Heck, did she even ever tell Sven, at any point, that she'd stay faithful to him?)  Sure, she was scared to, and she was right to be scared, but. 

Although the person who really needs a clue now is Dora.  Faye hasn't yelled at Sven, hasn't thrown things, and I don't begrudge her having a cry.

[reverie]

Sven feels bad because she was hurt, not because he believes he did something wrong.

That more or less hits the nail squarely on the head.

Sven and Faye had a mutual understanding that the casual sexual relationship they shared would come to an end if Sven decided to sleep with another woman, and while he doesn't view what he did with Gina Riversmith as wrong in and of itself, he's aware that it caused Faye no small amount of pain, and that it would bring about the end if she were to become aware of it, and for this he feels a understandable, reasonable measure of guilt and regret.

I think that Faye knew just what she was getting herself into from the start, understanding Sven's "romantic" history, and while she knew that the events we've watched unfold could and in all probability would happen, she didn't want to believe it.  She found herself more attracted to him than she was willing to admit, hoped that everything would run smoothly and, maybe, in the end, that things would fall into place - she'd be prepared emotionally for a deeper relationship, and Sven would have developed feelings for her strong enough to warrant being exclusive.  And maybe he has, though he has yet to find its way into his conscious mind.  Maybe he'll seek to make amends and the two will come out stronger for the experience.

Or perhaps all will dissolve into chaos and calamity.  This is Questionable Content, after all.

'zactly.

Sorry.  No sympathy for Faye.  It's one of those "get a helmet" moments that life hands you.  And the unbelievable double-standard is absurd.

I can see how some people's interpretations of this might fall along a double standard, but I don't see how suggesting people have a measure of compassion for their causal sex buddies is a double standard. You never really explained to how or why casual sex ought to exist in a complete emotional vacuum.

Why does this have to be such a black-and-white issue? They were both forewarned, and I think *both* of their reactions are pretty reasonable.

Remember, Faye never yelled as Sven. She walked out, like she promised she would, and let out her anger by cursing at him when she was away. Even if it's a situation she should be prepared to deal with, that doesn't mean she should have to pretend it's okay with her when it's not.

I think the complete moral outrage against Sven is probably unwarranted, and while I can understand Dora's anger (she's sticking up for her hurt friend), I think she's probably wrong to freak out at him; but none of that means that it's wrong for Faye to feel bad about Sven sleeping with another girl.

[jeph]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

[Random832]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

I don't recall any explanation of just what Marten did wrong in his last fight with Dora.

[Lost Coastlines]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

I don't recall any explanation of just what Marten did wrong in his last fight with Dora.

Which one?  In the most recent one, he admitted he purposefully hid information from her.  That doesn't in any way justify her behavior, but it does earn him a couple at fault percentage points.  Just a couple.

I'm having a hard time seeing where he was at all to blame for the fight over his haircut, though.

[kabukiman]

Because most persons try to see both perspectives as if both had a bit of true. Both being completly wrong is a bizarre idea.

[Mr. Skawronska]

and Faye deserves a shot at a decent stable relationship.  Given her issues, she will probably find her own ways to screw things up, but she still deserves the chance.

Grrrrr.  Faye deserves to have her karmic debt collected on like a bad check over, and over, and over.

Grrrr.

{/faye hate}

S

[Mallli_kite]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

Not only is it funny, it is HYSTERICALLY funny.  As I creep closer and closer to my crone years, I find myself laughing a lot about such things.  Sure, there are situations and events where one person suffers through no particular action, choice, or fault of his/her own, and you can make a list.  On the other hand, if investigated, most situations yield a little 'fault' -- or, to use the term I prefer, responsibility -- that can be shared out all around. 

The comic is a good illustration of this.  It's one of the reasons I keep reading it and come here to discuss it.

While throwing blame and laying faults on one side to absolve the other may give some a warm glow of self righteousness, in the end it's stunting and doesn't improve the decision making apparatus.   Those who tend in that direction repeat themselves a lot, since they have no responsibility in what happens to them and thus no need to change.  In fact, some say repeating the same poor choices expecting a different outcome is insanity.  Mistakes are the best way found yet to learn.  If you keep making the same mistakes, you aren't paying attention.

And that, ladies, gentlemen, and others, is just damn funny.

[idkrash]

I was going to start an ask Sven thread, but this will do.

Hi Sven

Great comic.  Do you mind if I axe U a question?

Cool.

How long after you start having... uh, liking someone new should you tell your old girlfriend who left her husband for you that you just want to be friends?  srsly.  I'm not even kidding.  Help  me feel alright about this.


idkrash.
For the good times.

[KeepACoolin]

That's the kind of thing I took it to mean, not that God is petty enough to punish your great-grandkids for a minor offense.

That quote was taken out of context here- immediately after it says "I visit the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation" it says "I visit love upon those who obey me to a thousand generations."  It was meant to illustrate the fact that God's love outweighs God's wrath.

[Guido Sarducci]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

And that is all your fault, innit?

[Mallli_kite]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

And that is all your fault, innit?

Oooo ooooo don't poke the artist!   

[Guido Sarducci]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

And that is all your fault, innit?

Oooo ooooo don't poke the artist!   

*goes on poking spree*

I must.

I must.

^=^

[Mallli_kite]

*goes on poking spree*

I must.

I must.

^=^

I was going to make a comment about "poking sticks" and "using protection" and "don't know where Jeph has been" but I decided it was tasteless and not good form.  So, I'll just leave the bits here where you can see them and let you construct your own trouble

[Guido Sarducci]

*goes on poking spree*

I must.

I must.

^=^

I was going to make a comment about "poking sticks" and "using protection" and "don't know where Jeph has been" but I decided it was tasteless and not good form.  So, I'll just leave the bits here where you can see them and let you construct your own trouble

I almost did the same thing with your "poke."
anyway, you started it.
*sticks out tongue*

[Mallli_kite]

I almost did the same thing with your "poke."
anyway, you started it.
*sticks out tongue*

Careful -- some might construe that as an invitation...

[Mr. Skawronska]

When you two get the room, can I be your cameraman?

S

[Guido Sarducci]

this is going nowhere very quickly. 

[Mallli_kite]

I would never be involved in scandalous behavior with a man of the cloth!




He has to take the cloth off first 

[Mr. Skawronska]

this is going nowhere very quickly. 

Hey, you're the one steering.

"C'mon Mav...do some of that Pilot Shit!"

-- Goose


S

[Guido Sarducci]

Traaaaiiiiinnn wreeeeeck!

[championofkhorne]

We're going of the raaaills on a craazzyy traaiin.


*bitchin guitar solo*

[ViciousWarGoose]

I suggest that Faye get back at Sven by hooking up with Wil Wheaton.  That would be awesome. 

[Mallli_kite]

I suggest that Faye get back at Sven by hooking up with Wil Wheaton.  That would be awesome. 

That could NOT be the look Pintsize was going for...

[ViciousWarGoose]

 
[/quote]

That could NOT be the look Pintsize was going for...
[/quote]

No, I saw Mr. Wheaton at PCC a few weeks ago, and he has a full beard, not a Flanders 'stach.

[jedraft]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

Maybe you intended for both parties to be at fault, but what comes across repeatedly is that the male characters have a tendency to apologize for the emotional crises manufactured by the girls.  The female characters tend to overreact comically to what they perceive (through the foggy lens of their crippling neuroses and immature and unrealistic expectations) as their lovers' betrayals, slights and dishonesty.  In fact, the offenses are usually nonexistent to the mind of a healthy person, leaving the men, including many male readers like myself, to sort of scratch their heads, saying "WTF?"  It's nice to think that in real life relationships the two sides of the story always balance out to neatly apportion blame equally,(or at all)  but the truth is some people torpedo themselves regularly with their own craziness, and the rest of us have to deal with it.   

Not that there's anything wrong with that in a comic, but that's my take on it.

Frankly, I think it would be refreshing to see Faye with Pintsize, since he truly is amoral and has no sense of the consequences of his actions, and therefore wouldn't dance on her strings.  "Apology?  I don't understand the term."   Not to mention that it would be very easy to abuse him, since he's the most emotionally grounded and resilient of all the characters and his body is made of plastic - modular, too.  You can literally pop his little head off to punish him.  The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Faye + Pintsize! Yay!   

[lolwut]

i think you just want some machine on woman action and you don't care who gets hurt

that aside i agree with your analysis

[Mallli_kite]

It's funny.

Literally every single argument in the comic this far has found both parties at fault (if not equally so). And yet in every instance people INISIST upon declaring one side the guilty one.

Maybe you intended for both parties to be at fault, but what comes across repeatedly is that the male characters have a tendency to apologize for the emotional crises manufactured by the girls.  The female characters tend to overreact comically to what they perceive (through the foggy lens of their crippling neuroses and immature and unrealistic expectations) as their lovers' betrayals, slights and dishonesty.  In fact, the offenses are usually nonexistent to the mind of a healthy person, leaving the men, including many male readers like myself, to sort of scratch their heads, saying "WTF?"  It's nice to think that in real life relationships the two sides of the story always balance out to neatly apportion blame equally,(or at all)  but the truth is some people torpedo themselves regularly with their own craziness, and the rest of us have to deal with it.   

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

[lolwut]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?

srs question, do they?

or is it basically one sided?

[pwhodges]

Does it matter?  In a dozen or so characters, there is no chance of a cartoon being fully representative or balanced.

[Mallli_kite]

yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?

srs question, do they?

or is it basically one sided?

Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you.  "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction.   So...conversation at end.  Have a nice day!

[lolwut]

yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?

srs question, do they?

or is it basically one sided?

Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you.  "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction.   So...conversation at end.  Have a nice day!

by grossly overreact i am saying that such a reaction would be seen by a dispassionate outsider as, well, a gross overreaction. see the bit where dora goes batshit at marten for not telling her about the girl who asked him out (and that she knew that he turned her down, incidentally).

by percieved slight i mean that there is, possibly, a slight there, but that it's mostly in the mind of the one percieving it. again, for an excellent example, see the above.

[jedraft]

yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?

srs question, do they?

or is it basically one sided?

Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you.  "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction.   So...conversation at end.  Have a nice day!

by grossly overreact i am saying that such a reaction would be seen by a dispassionate outsider as, well, a gross overreaction. see the bit where dora goes batshit at marten for not telling her about the girl who asked him out (and that she knew that he turned her down, incidentally).

by percieved slight i mean that there is, possibly, a slight there, but that it's mostly in the mind of the one percieving it. again, for an excellent example, see the above.

Completely agree.  The pattern is not that the girls don't admit to wrong-doing, but that their behavior appears to be genuinely hurtful when they do.  Naturally Hannelore is going to apologize for going off the deep end and smacking Marten.  Despite the fact that she's obviously not in her right mind - I mean, is she ever? - she really smacked him, really hurt him.  I have yet to see one of the male characters essentially emotionally blackmail one of the guys into apologizing for his distorted perception of her innocent behavior.  Sven was actually my hero, in that regard.  He gave no shit and took no shit.  And, at least in this case, was completely upfront about it.   Same reason I like Pintsize.  He is what he is and has neither the need nor the understanding of deception.

And he knows Faye wants him - especially with his pasted-on porn moustache and chest hair!  What a hunk! (or, at least a chunk.)  I mean, how many other babe magnets do you know that actually have their own EMF? 

[jedraft]

yes but do the male characters grossly overreact to percieved slights?

srs question, do they?

or is it basically one sided?

Since you are setting up the conditions and definitions in your question, there is no way to answer you.  "Grossly overreact" and "perceived slights" are both subjective descriptions intended to slant any response toward the answer you already have in mind. You aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a reaction.   So...conversation at end.  Have a nice day!

Nice way to shut down the discussion without actually addressing the question. 

 Permit me to observe that you seem to be doing a bit of what Dora was doing - manufacturing an issue where none exists.   For reasonable people, it's completely fair in a discussion to go back and forth over definitions until a consensus is reached.  What, for instance, would your definition of "one-sided" or "gross overreaction" be?  I think that if you put forward your own, for the purposes of discussion, then a reasonable person could agree to that and then the question can actually be discussed.  As it is, you are the one who is really not interested in a discussion so much as a reaction, or else your own position can't be argued because it's weak.

Have a nice day, yourself.   

[Guido Sarducci]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.

*giggles*


*waits for Mallie kite's frenzied pm*

[Mr. Skawronska]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.

That would explain the funny way he walks.

S

[Surgoshan]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.

That would explain the funny way he walks.

S

I'm pretty sure it's beacause he's got balls this big.

[jedraft]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.

That would explain the funny way he walks.

S

I'm pretty sure it's beacause he's got balls this big.

That was before he and Dora hooked up, I believe.  Now she has the keeping of them, and he's not allowed to use them without her permission.

[championofkhorne]

He listens to AC/DC and admires their balls.

[tricia kidd]

For the record, the "sigh" was me finally getting fed up with zerodrone/Jackie Blue and banning him.

The REASON I banned him is not that he is unhappy with the comic, or that he had criticism. It was that he had the sheer GALL to assume that he knew my motivations, state of mind, and feeling towards my own work. He put words in my mouth, he was a condescending prick, he's done it before and been warned, and I got sick of it, so he's gone.

in point of fact, jackie blue was not banned.  his IP was banned which means that i, his sister who usually lives with him, as well as his roommates, were also banned because we share a network.  he sent a cordial email to you, jeph, on my behalf, asking to simply ban him and not punish everyone he lives with as well.  that email was never replied to (did you even read it?)

also, he was never warned, definitely not in the sense of "stop talking about such and such or i will ban you".  if he had been warned as such then he would have went back to the music section, where 99.99% of his posts exist.  of the 3,000+ posts of his, only 180 or so were in the comic discussion forum, and of those, less than a dozen were posts that you said anything negative about.

there are people on here who are far bigger pricks than jackie.  they just aren't pricks to you, so you let it slide.  jackie was a very good contributor to the music forum and to ban him from everything, including that, without any real or specific warning, is you, mr. jacques, being a prick.  of course you have the right to be a prick on your own website, but it doesn't change the prick-ness of it.

[sofiabailote]

Interesting but selective reading there -- the females in the comic have also done apologizing.  If you like, I can give you links.

Oh come on. We all know the women in QC are all bitches and they should quit bein mean to the boys. I mean, look at poor little Marten. He's so whipped he can't pee without sitting down.

considering Marten's upbringing, I would say he's been pussy-whipped pretty much since birth, so no matter what the "QC bitches" do to him, he will always be a bit of a pansy.
...besides, he CAN pee standing up- remember when he met Hanners?? (now that I think of it, he was in the ladies WC, wasn't he? hummmm...)