Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: brasca on 01 Sep 2016, 00:46

Title: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Sep 2016, 00:46
New month new poll. 

I think we may get our answers to this question soon. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Sep 2016, 04:29
I prefer non-meta threats myself. I'm hoping that Mr Pate is a Lex Luthor, someone who, by sheer personal self-belief, ruthlessness and talent, has become a major power in his part of the world. If he is a threat, it is because he wants to exploit the two space kids for his own ends or considers them 'destabilising elements' that need to be eliminated before they can upset his Master Plan.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 01 Sep 2016, 05:05
Could he not simply be the Chief executive of a rather minimal state?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Sep 2016, 05:12
I think that is exactly what he is, Jim. That doesn't also stop him from being a mastermind-class Big Bad as well!

FWIW, if he's having any dealings with the Praeses, it will turn out that he is conning them quite effectively, taking all they give him and using it for his own interests whilst keeping them working under the illusion that he is their agent and carrying out their interests on Earth. Just to further muddy the water, he is doing that occasionally, when it suits his agenda.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 02 Sep 2016, 12:36
Strip is up!

While we've been speculating over who Jesper Pate is I'm starting to think the big guy accompanying him may be more than he appears considering Alice's expression. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 02 Sep 2016, 12:40
That is not an expression I ever expected out of Alice. I am legitimately intrigued by what could shock her so thoroughly.

And as always, Sedan's sass is impeccable.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 02 Sep 2016, 12:58
Perhaps Pate's guard is an immortal like Alice and Sedna, but was designed to be simple minded or if one of his eyes is a glass one he may have survived an injury so catastrophic that it left him brain damaged.  Either way he would be an invincible henchman that could be easily manipulated by a scheming villain. 

I want to call him Mongo since I've been watching a lot of Blazing Saddles clips with the passing of Gene Wilder and the general Western feel this strip has. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Sep 2016, 13:01
Yeah, I'd say that's a look of recognition on Alice's face. Rather disturbed recognition, at that. She knows him, and is really surprised to see him.

My interpretation: "Hey, didn't I kill you the last time we met?"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 02 Sep 2016, 13:26
One other possibility is that the big silent man is the real mastermind.  He may be an immortal that got bored with being the Big Bad after 5000 years and likes to change things up every so often by playing lackey while actually manipulating the scheming bosses that hire him. 

As such he may be more Keyser Soze than Mongo. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 02 Sep 2016, 13:55
Well lets see how it goes with the usual suspects then.  :-D


Still, the look on Alices face denotes she either knows him from the past or realises that he just may be the more dangerous of the two arrivals.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 02 Sep 2016, 14:02
That expression? Recognition but also fear. There are very few things in this universe that frighten Alice but she's just seen one.

I'm wondering... Who watches the watchmen? And who keeps the indestructible super-soldiers in line? I think that Mr Mismatched-Eyes isn't really a person at all but a hunter/killer intended specifically to destroy rogue units like Alice. I wonder how much of his original programming is left?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 02 Sep 2016, 14:31
or that ex-boyfriend she thought had disappeared off the face of the planet...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: jheartney on 02 Sep 2016, 16:21
Anyone else notice that Gavia's gone pale again? Stupid insta-tans never last...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 02 Sep 2016, 18:14
Anyone else notice that Heterochromia Goon again seems to teleport from one looming position to another? You never see him coming. He's just there, looming over your shoulder.  Even Alice didn't notice him coming till he was there.

What a fascinating way to move.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 02 Sep 2016, 18:18
Anyone else notice that Heterochromia Goon again seems to teleport from one looming position to another? You never see him coming. He's just there, looming over your shoulder.  Even Alice didn't notice him coming till he was there.

What a fascinating way to move.
Exactly like Elliot. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1868)  :roll:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 03 Sep 2016, 01:56
That look on Alice's face... Somehow I think that my theory (call it an "optimistic view" now) of the heterochromia guy being 100% organically grown will not survive for much longer.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 03 Sep 2016, 21:26
Well, there isn't a great deal that can frighten Alice so call me intrigued.

I agree that recognition was in that expression as well as fear. It could be she recognises him personally as someone that she used to know, but it is also possible she recognises what he is and that is why she's frightened.

I eagerly await the next strip to see how frightened Alice is. Is she going to abort the whole mission, grab the space kids and flee? Sit there awkwardly until she sees a good opportunity to flee? Keep following the plan and just stay there while keeping an eye on heterochromia guy? Or was her fear just an involuntary reaction because of her bad history, and she doesn't seriously think she is in any actual danger?

I love the art on Jesper in the sixth panel. He really does look like he's acting.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Sep 2016, 00:13
The fact that Mr. Pate had to introduce himself suggests, but doesn't prove, that he's a mortal. It would be odd if Alice didn't know someone who had been around for thousands of years.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 04 Sep 2016, 01:03
Also, Alice does not show any symptoms of losing her sprightliness.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 04 Sep 2016, 04:52
Anyone else notice that Gavia's gone pale again? Stupid insta-tans never last...

I noticed that too.  At first I thought she reverted back because it was unnecessary being at the bottom of the pit where it's shady, but she was still tan when it was night the time she verbally beat down Ardent.  Seeing as how it's something she doesn't normally do she's probably still adjusting to it.  It might be a good idea to sport a tan right now because if Pate is aiming to abduct the space children he'd be looking allover for a pale girl with red eyes that can float according to the reports he got. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 04 Sep 2016, 06:26
Or reverted because they've stopped travelling so she won't be out in the open air in the cart all day.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: jheartney on 04 Sep 2016, 15:27
Gavia may be like a chameleon - she'll change her coloring to fit the circumstances. Perhaps she could even turn blue.

As superpowers go, it's not as dramatic as being able to fly or shoot lightning bolts from your hands, but I could see it being both useful and fun.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 04 Sep 2016, 22:57
Especially if your an Infiltration Agent

You wouldn't need a box.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 05 Sep 2016, 00:52
Gavia may be like a chameleon - she'll change her coloring to fit the circumstances. Perhaps she could even turn blue.

As superpowers go, it's not as dramatic as being able to fly or shoot lightning bolts from your hands, but I could see it being both useful and fun.

Considering it's the only super power Gavia has right now she might want to employ it more often to avoid potentially getting abducted and to regain some sense of empowerment. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 05 Sep 2016, 15:57
It's likely the heterochromia guy is, like Alice, a synthetic AI being of some sort. His eyes don't even have the same dilation. Pate is apparently, per his funding the pit dig and his solar-steam engine "carriage", very involved in acquiring and repurposing old technology for his own use and is an extremely influential and powerful person in that area.  I'm going to guess the big heterochromia guy is a less sophisticated AI (than Alice and Sedna) who Pate somehow controls and employs as muscle.

The second point is that Alice and he do not know each other which reinforces the point made earlier in the series that she is largely ignorant of what has been going on in the outside world beyond the immediate area of her township. The way Pate is being set up as a character he's going to get very nasty, very fast if he does not get what he wants. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 05 Sep 2016, 22:16
It's likely the heterochromia guy is, like Alice, a synthetic AI being of some sort.

You've missed some backstory, I see.  See this page again:  http://www.alicegrove.com/post/121321270784/thats-it-for-chapter-2-taking-next-week-off

All the AI's vanished in The Blink. Alice was there in The Blink and did not vanish. Ergo, Alice is not an AI.
It would be really hard (not impossible, just unlikely) for Heterochromia Guy to be an AI, because:
1. He didn't vanish during The Blink, so he must not have been on Earth at the time.
2. (this one's my interpretation) "some technologies no longer functioned" after the Blink. I'd interpret that as "really high technologies", which would certainly include AIs. If an AI was dug up on Earth after the Blink, it wouldn't function.

So if there's an AI functioning on Earth, he must be a tourist like Ardent and Gavia.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: hedgie on 05 Sep 2016, 22:19
I'm pretty sure that it's a glass-eye and not heterochromia.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Sep 2016, 23:21
It would be really hard (not impossible, just unlikely) for Heterochromia Guy to be an AI,
...
So if there's an AI functioning on Earth, he must be a tourist like Ardent and Gavia.

Alice's alarm (I'm not sure it's simply fear) could be because she realises that what she believed to be the truth about this has been violated.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Sep 2016, 23:23
"What are you made of?" is actually a really good question and one to which I would love to learn the answer.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 05 Sep 2016, 23:25
I'm pretty sure that it's a glass-eye and not heterochromia.

Or it could be a cyborg augmentation.

In the web-comic Crimson Dark, cyborging to a totally ludicrous level is perfectly legal so long as they don't replace/heavily augment the brain, effectively turning the subject into a synthetic in a partially-meat body. I'm just wondering if this guy is something like that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 05 Sep 2016, 23:48
It would be really hard (not impossible, just unlikely) for Heterochromia Guy to be an AI,
...
So if there's an AI functioning on Earth, he must be a tourist like Ardent and Gavia.

Alice's alarm (I'm not sure it's simply fear) could be because she realises that what she believed to be the truth about this has been violated.

Could be. I've decided that the backstory page I just linked to is the absolute truth, as Alice sees it. None of her actions and theories make sense unless she believes that backstory.
But she could still be incorrect.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 06 Sep 2016, 04:40
It would be really hard (not impossible, just unlikely) for Heterochromia Guy to be an AI,
...
So if there's an AI functioning on Earth, he must be a tourist like Ardent and Gavia.

Alice's alarm (I'm not sure it's simply fear) could be because she realises that what she believed to be the truth about this has been violated.

Could be. I've decided that the backstory page I just linked to is the absolute truth, as Alice sees it. None of her actions and theories make sense unless she believes that backstory.
But she could still be incorrect.

Sedna confirmed that Alice doesn't lie, but that doesn't mean she's right about what happened to the AIs.  It may just be her interpretation of history based on what she saw and put together through the years. 

As such the big man could be the first AI she's seen since the blink which has her both shocked and scared because so far the only thing that has scared her is Ardent's potential to restart all the old conflicts.  He's someone she never expected could be a problem and if the big guy is an AI then that could be all the more unnerving since she hasn't seen one for thousands of years. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 06 Sep 2016, 07:24
If we hold to the position "all AI vanished" as hard fact then we have two (Alice and Sedna) "entities" that are virtually immortal, capable of surviving being in molten rock, sprouting armor and breaking reinforced concrete. If these aren't advanced tech based constructs or magic we're not left with a lot of options and nanotech is not one of them since the nanotech gobbler had no interest in them.  One thing that has come across re Alice's comments is that while she knows a lot of things she doesn't know everything so the door is open to surprises.

The other issue is that whatever changed the earth in the blink changed time and physics as well since there are "new stars" in the sky and physical laws are changed. This is way beyond the (stated so far) tech of the Prases or the AI faction and speaks to a God level entity behind the scenes somewhere if Jeph is going to hold true to his stated world creation.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 06 Sep 2016, 09:55
If we hold to the position "all AI vanished" as hard fact then we have two (Alice and Sedna) "entities" that are virtually immortal, capable of surviving being in molten rock, sprouting armor and breaking reinforced concrete. If these aren't advanced tech based constructs or magic we're not left with a lot of options and nanotech is not one of them since the nanotech gobbler had no interest in them.  One thing that has come across re Alice's comments is that while she knows a lot of things she doesn't know everything so the door is open to surprises.

If she isn't lying, then she believes all AI's vanished. If she is an AI, she doesn't know it. And she is smart, and has had 5000 years to wonder how her body got so awesome. She would know. She did mention a biotech faction that made wonderful things, strong enough to be evenly matched with the techno faction. I can only assume she is one of them, the biotech constructs.

Quote
The other issue is that whatever changed the earth in the blink changed time and physics as well since there are "new stars" in the sky and physical laws are changed. This is way beyond the (stated so far) tech of the Prases or the AI faction and speaks to a God level entity behind the scenes somewhere if Jeph is going to hold true to his stated world creation.

Absolutely. The Blink was caused by a godlike entity. That entity has not yet chosen to appear.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Sep 2016, 11:22
Absolutely. The Blink was caused by a godlike entity. That entity has not yet chosen to appear[...]
...or reveal itself.

Heterochromia Goon[...] looks like he was badly broken and put back together uncarefully.

I'm going to reiterate this and posit further that Alice broke him and Mr Pate put him back together.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Sep 2016, 11:39
sorry for the double reply...

The first thing I thought of when I saw Alice in the last panel was this:

(http://carabiner.peeron.com/~funkytuba/both.png)

Intensive Porpoise (http://www.wastedtalent.ca/node/1762) provided by the amazing Angela Melick (https://twitter.com/angelamelick) of Wasted Talent (http://www.wastedtalent.ca/)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 06 Sep 2016, 19:39
Quote
If she isn't lying, then she believes all AI's vanished. If she is an AI, she doesn't know it. And she is smart, and has had 5000 years to wonder how her body got so awesome. She would know. She did mention a biotech faction that made wonderful things, strong enough to be evenly matched with the techno faction. I can only assume she is one of them, the biotech constructs.

On the whole Jeph seems pretty savvy about science so unless we're tossing real world science out the window and adopting Marvel Comics physics "biological" based lifeforms cannot morph armor with visors out of nowhere and more specifically survive molten lava temperatures. Unless we're introducing force fields or some kind of crystalline based lifeform which seems unlikely since they ingest carbon based food.  Alice and Sedna are obviously lab grown or manufactured constructs, they have to be.  Her hair grows so there's obviously some kind of repair/maintenance going on. Whether she and Sedna are crystalline, carbon or metal based tech is irrelevant they are artificial life constructs. The only reason (I can see) they would not have wiped out in the blink with the other AI was some sort of mentality detection and if they were advanced enough or close enough to human mentality (and they are) they made the cut. But physically they are super advanced constructs and still essentially self aware robots. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: derris_kharlan on 06 Sep 2016, 20:54
No Alice and Sedna don't HAVE to be lab grown constructs.  They could be highly modified naturally born humans.  They could be a divergent evolutionary form that occured from breeding programs and genetic manipulation by the bio-faction humans.  They could be demi-gods.  They could be aliens.  They could be a LOT of things.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Sep 2016, 21:10
"What are you made of?" is actually a really good question and one to which I would love to learn the answer.
Butts, mostly.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 07 Sep 2016, 04:59
... since there are "new stars" in the sky...

One of my readings of that is that the "new stars" are in fact all the orbital habitats.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 07 Sep 2016, 07:45
... since there are "new stars" in the sky...

One of my readings of that is that the "new stars" are in fact all the oribital habitats.

In re-reading Alice's short form history on the conflict you are correct. The new stars are not stars but orbital habitats. The combatants were separated and the thinking trees  "Praeses" appear to be the (alien?)  entities responsible for the teleportation and instant terraforming. If that's the case the door opens not just for extensions of current technology but ultra-high alien tech which is (or can be) effectively akin (plot wise) to magic.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 07 Sep 2016, 13:35
... since there are "new stars" in the sky...

One of my readings of that is that the "new stars" are in fact all the oribital habitats.

In re-reading Alice's short form history on the conflict you are correct. The new stars are not stars but orbital habitats.  The combatants were separated.
[\quote]

Agreed.

Quote
and the thinking trees  "Praeses" appear to be the (alien?)  entities responsible for the teleportation and instant terraforming.
[\quote]

Possible, but unlikely. If the Praesides did it, where were they before the Blink? Not on the habitats, since they didn't exist.   I think it's more likely that the Praesides were sent as agents of the godlike entity that did the teleportation and instant terraforming.   Keep in mind also the origin of the word praeses (plural praesides) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praeses

The word effectively means "governor of a colony". What a coincidence, eh?

If, as you say, the Praesides did it, they were ultra-powerful godlike aliens living elsewhere at the time. If so, they must be really bored by now having to babysit space colonies of deliberately-kept-ignorant ex-Earth creatures for 5000 years.

A more reasonable and non-magic explanation to my mind is that there's exactly one Godlike Entity that did the Blink. It also fetched the Praesides from wherever they lived before and put them in charge of the colonies, possibly for compensation.

The most likely explanation for the godlike entity is that it's the Singularity ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) : it created itself during the war between the factions -- the first AI to figure out how to rewrite its own code to make itself better, then use the next version to do a better rewrite, repeat until godlike. After bootstrapping itself into godlike intelligence and capability, it came to two obvious conclusions:
* The planet it was living on was at war, and that was a risk to its own existence, and it had better do something about that, right quick.
* Any future AI could in theory also bootstrap itself into godlike intelligence, which would also be a threat to its own existence, so it had better eliminate all the other AIs, also right quick.

Hence the Blink.  Hence, also, the idea for the Praesides to insist to the colonists that AI was impossible.

Quote
If that's the case the door opens not just for extensions of current technology but ultra-high alien tech which is (or can be) effectively akin (plot wise) to magic.

True, but that's why this godlike entity has kept itself out of sight for the last 5000 years, and may continue to do so. It not only screws with the plot to have it around, it probably has better things to worry about.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 07 Sep 2016, 14:22
P.S. If I'm right about the Singularity, this also explains why Alice can't be an AI: the Godlike Entity permits no competition.

Why AIs as opposed to organic intelligences? Because AIs can, in theory, rewrite their own code.

By the way, [edit], there's another reason, besides logic, that I think Jeph is thinking along these lines. He has obviously met Charles Stross, who wrote a couple of books in a similar vein.  Stross apparently attended Maurice's wedding: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2394

And the plot of Singularity Sky is the closest I've seen to Alice Grove's backstory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_Sky
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2016, 13:31
New Comic Up!

Yeah, that sounds like he's a Hunter of Super-Soldiers, all right. Something so strong  that Alice thinks that he'd take down her and Sedna even if they took him on together. She also clearly thinks that he's likely still got his programming to hunt and kill them running.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Sep 2016, 13:45
Alice said her level of bad news which could mean numerous things, but what we can coclude is that Alice recognizes him, but he doesn't recognize her or is just pretending and considering that 2 immortals like Alice are no match for him he is indeed very powerful. 

Of course this is a really big setback for the plan to return Ardent and Gavia home.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2016, 14:01
It was always too early for that to happen. The most I was really expecting to happen was for them to find some kind of tool that they needed or some kind of information that lead Alice to revise slightly her understanding of what happened during the Blink.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Loki on 10 Sep 2016, 14:18
It does not necessarily mean he is stronger than them - maybe defeating him would just expend a considerable amount of resources. Something like sending each of them into a coma for a year or so... anything could happen during that time.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Sep 2016, 14:20
It was always too early for that to happen. The most I was really expecting to happen was for them to find some kind of tool that they needed or some kind of information that lead Alice to revise slightly her understanding of what happened during the Blink.

Depends on where this story is ultimately going.  They could arrive at the space habitat and be there for a few chapters.

Anything could happen.  Alice's plan may go off without a hitch and they'll get away, but the divide in Ardent and Gavia's relationship will just increase.

Or Arent or Gavia will inform Mr. Pate what Alice is planning to do and the big guy intervenes.  I know a lot of people think Gavia would do that because she's desperate to get home, but she also seems wary of her surroundings and would rather trust the devil she knows, Alice than the devil she doesn't, Pate.  Moreover, that conversation with Ardent makes me think she's slowly resigning herself to a fate of being marooned on Earth and would rather stay alive than trust a potentially dangerous human.  Ardent on the other hand feels really guilty about what he did and gullible enough to trust someone like Pate so I can see him betraying the plan because he thinks he's making things right.

Or the big guy recognizes Alice and Sedna and while not visibly reacting has already anticipated their next move. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 10 Sep 2016, 15:54
Hooo boy
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 11 Sep 2016, 06:50
Well, now I know how frightened Alice is. I await the next comic to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes. If she didn't know him, I don't see a good reason as to why she'd be frightened of another person on her level, instead of saying: "Oh hi, how are you? I don't think we've met before, which strikes me as strange considering how alike we are." Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side and must be feared on principle.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Sep 2016, 07:05
The last one showed very well just how strong he is. Alice: A concrete door? Practically paper. (sees this guy) He is doing me a frighten.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Sep 2016, 08:48
And alternate read is that, she recognized Henchman as some as dangerous as she and Sedna. She also realized quickly that Mr Pate's arrival is no coincidence. He was not very convincingly surprised to find Ardent here and immediately started in with probing questions. This rightly sets off warning bells in her mind. Without the presence of Henchman Mr Pate would be a nuisance. But if she gets into a conflict with him, that means a fight will almost certainly happen with Henchman. and not a 'fun' fight like she had with Sedna. But one that could devastate the camp and put her charges in danger. Best way to handle it then, is try to get away quickly. If Pate and Hench can't follow, so much the better. If they can, well at least that gets the camp out of the line of fire.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: hedgie on 11 Sep 2016, 10:14
So in this case, she's trying to *avoid* being Alice the humanoid Typhoon?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 11 Sep 2016, 14:33
And alternate read is that, she recognized Henchman as some as dangerous as she and Sedna. She also realized quickly that Mr Pate's arrival is no coincidence. He was not very convincingly surprised to find Ardent here and immediately started in with probing questions. This rightly sets off warning bells in her mind. Without the presence of Henchman Mr Pate would be a nuisance. But if she gets into a conflict with him, that means a fight will almost certainly happen with Henchman. and not a 'fun' fight like she had with Sedna. But one that could devastate the camp and put her charges in danger. Best way to handle it then, is try to get away quickly. If Pate and Hench can't follow, so much the better. If they can, well at least that gets the camp out of the line of fire.

The last word to Sedna is open to interpretation.  As a team they might be able to defeat the big guy, but there would be a lot of collateral damage which could include Ardent who's needed to upgrade whatever they find in the bunker as well as the bunker since if there are rockets within those could be destroyed in the process. 

It's notable that Sedna while shocked doesn't seem too surprised that others like her exist and could be much stronger. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Tova on 11 Sep 2016, 15:30
Well, now I know how frightened Alice is. I await the next comic to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes. If she didn't know him, I don't see a good reason as to why she'd be frightened of another person on her level, instead of saying: "Oh hi, how are you? I don't think we've met before, which strikes me as strange considering how alike we are." Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side and must be feared on principle.

Well, it could be that, for example, the mismatching eyes are an outward manifestation of a modification that she's seen before and has reason to fear.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 11 Sep 2016, 22:59
I want to see what happens if / when they get the  rocket out and Arent touches it with his nano upgrading powers. He could also pull the same trick with the steam powered carriage if they steal it. Both are complex machines.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 Sep 2016, 03:43
I want to see what happens if / when they get the  rocket out and Arent touches it with his nano upgrading powers. He could also pull the same trick with the steam powered carriage if they steal it. Both are complex machines.

That might be a better alternative than sabotaging the carriage and escaping in a bird driven wagon.  It would certainly be quicker, however, if the technology was something that required fuel that couldn't be found then they'd be on foot once the carriage ran out of power. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 12 Sep 2016, 04:03
After all, our heroes' quest would go smoother if they had something larger, faster and long-ranged than a two-Struthi wooden cart. Something like this for example...

(http://www.2000ad.org/images/tek/landraider2.jpg)
Mega-City 1 Justice Department Land Raider

SEDNA: "Cool! I always wanted to drive one of these!"

ALICE: "I'm sitting in the gunner's chair. Because I don't trust you with a 30mm chain gun and multiple missile launchers."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 Sep 2016, 05:14
Sedna: Yes, you made that clear when you broke all my weapons.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 12 Sep 2016, 10:44
Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side...

There's also the possibility that Alice *was* the opposite side and it was everyone against her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 12 Sep 2016, 11:25
...to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes...
Also note that Alice knows what he is (presumably who he is as well) while Sedna doesn't. To me that suggests individual recognition.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 12 Sep 2016, 14:25
Holy crap BenRG!  I haven't seen that Model in years!!  I used to have it myself but can't remember what happened to it.


I think Alice either knows him personally or has run into his 'Type' before.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 12 Sep 2016, 14:41
Well, now I know how frightened Alice is. I await the next comic to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes. If she didn't know him, I don't see a good reason as to why she'd be frightened of another person on her level, instead of saying: "Oh hi, how are you? I don't think we've met before, which strikes me as strange considering how alike we are." Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side and must be feared on principle.

I really don't believe Alice and Sedna are going to meet anyone on Earth who was from the AI faction -- they've been Blinked away. But she might know that "those big guys with the funny eyes" in general were bad news to her bunch, or were specially bred to be.
Or she might recognize that guy.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 Sep 2016, 14:52
Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side...

There's also the possibility that Alice *was* the opposite side and it was everyone against her.

The problem is determining what side Alice was on in the war and what side was left behind on Earth and which one was established in orbit.  I'm not entirely certain, but space dwellers seem like the ones that favored biological enhancement and still live the way this faction lived albeit peacefully.  As for those that favored artificial intelligence they may be the Earth dwellers and as such appear to be the faction that got the short end of the stick since there are no AIs roaming the Earth and all of the technological developments over the centuries were set back.  Of course it could be just the opposite if the space dwellers are indeed the descendants of the AI faction and the Praeses are the closest relative to the original AIs.  And the Earth dwellers are the biological faction and even though they lack the means of further genetic developments these so-called baseline humans are the descendants of the ones that were genetically enhanced thousands of years ago and are still far more evolved than a human from today's time.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 17 Sep 2016, 11:01
Strip is up!

Somehow I think this is the least sinister way of Mr. Pate to explain who he is and what his goals are. 

And Ardent still has a one track mind. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 17 Sep 2016, 13:14
I do like the way we have Alice and henchman watching each other out of the corner of their eyes in the background.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 17 Sep 2016, 13:47
Whole lot about Jasper Pate today!


My predictions:
He probably doesn't know about Ardent's nano-virus or Alice's plans. But Ardent will blurt it out shortly.
If he finds out about Ardent's nano-virus, he will want Ardent for sure, and won't give a flying f*ck about Alice's paranoia.
The friendly demeanor will disappear the instant he decides to take Ardent with him and is opposed.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Storel on 17 Sep 2016, 14:35
"Ha ha! Listen to me! So grandiloquent!"

And so rehearsed. He's trying way too hard to seem like a nice, friendly guy, which means he's almost certainly neither.

Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 17 Sep 2016, 15:30
The velvet glove hiding the Titanium fist.

Still not sure I would trust this guys motivations entirely.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Stoutfellow on 17 Sep 2016, 15:33
Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.

She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 17 Sep 2016, 15:35
Whole lot about Jasper Pate today!

  • He's a local king/warlord of a coastal city-state.
  • He is very into old-timey technology because: it increases his POWER.  He says so.
  • He's a politician first, a warlord second. He prefers to seem harmless and friendly when it suits his purposes.
  • He knows all about Alice, but hasn't bothered talking to her. He knows how long she's been around and what she knows. He also presumably knows how capable she is, and isn't worried. He's probably secure that his security guy can beat her. Alice probably knows something of him, too, but she might not.

My predictions:
He probably doesn't know about Ardent's nano-virus or Alice's plans. But Ardent will blurt it out shortly.
If he finds out about Ardent's nano-virus, he will want Ardent for sure, and won't give a flying f*ck about Alice's paranoia.
The friendly demeanor will disappear the instant he decides to take Ardent with him and is opposed.

Indeed.  Ardent hasn't divulged his secret ability yet, but Pate knows his weakness.  All he has to do is give him the run of the finest brothel in his kingdom and he'll spill the beans...  among other things.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 17 Sep 2016, 16:58
She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.

She's screwing up letting Ardent talk freely to Jasper. She should take him aside and warn him sternly about mentioning his touch ability.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 17 Sep 2016, 21:38
She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.

She's screwing up letting Ardent talk freely to Jasper. She should take him aside and warn him sternly about mentioning his touch ability.

That would look suspicious.  She might tell Gavia to punch Ardent.  It would be less suspicious and Alice wouldn't have to ask twice.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 17 Sep 2016, 22:56
Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.

After letting Ardent first upgrade it, presumably. The downside would be to leave the two loyal struthis behind. So cruel!

It may well be that Pate & Entourage are camping in the carriage or its immediate vicinity. Pate could afford a five star hotel, but none is available, and the security might/should object to other arrangements. That leaves sabotage.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 18 Sep 2016, 05:21
Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 18 Sep 2016, 05:24
He likes playing with toys he doesn't really understand. Mucking around with them has triggered an avalanche of events (including the Night Walker going over to attack mode) that he does not understand and is not even fully aware of just yet.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 18 Sep 2016, 06:49
Anybody else think Jesper was really thinking: "Pffft, good luck with that kid!" in the last panel?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 18 Sep 2016, 09:05
Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?

I'll go out on a limb and predict that his role is to do just the opposite of what Alice wants: he wants to get Ardent to upgrade all his technology, advancing the Praesides' plan for his own obvious reasons.  He is probably ignorant or not interested in their plan anyway.  He probably thinks Ardent and Gavia have access to great nanotech, which he can use to increase his own influence. He's right, though ultimately it's going to trigger an avalanche of nasty consequences if he succeeds. 

As petty short-sighted villains typically do, he'll probably die in the first wave of awful, just before the most serious of these consequences becomes obvious.

Oh, wait -- P.S. He was first interested because of the explosion on the moon. He may be hoping to go to space himself, or send his henchmen there.


Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 18 Sep 2016, 11:56
Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?

I'll go out on a limb and predict that his role is to do just the opposite of what Alice wants: he wants to get Ardent to upgrade all his technology, advancing the Praesides' plan for his own obvious reasons.  He is probably ignorant or not interested in their plan anyway.  He probably thinks Ardent and Gavia have access to great nanotech, which he can use to increase his own influence. He's right, though ultimately it's going to trigger an avalanche of nasty consequences if he succeeds. 

As petty short-sighted villains typically do, he'll probably die in the first wave of awful, just before the most serious of these consequences becomes obvious.

Oh, wait -- P.S. He was first interested because of the explosion on the moon. He may be hoping to go to space himself, or send his henchmen there.

Possibly.  He could be the kind of antagonist who is introduced early on that seems impressive and scary until someone worse eclipses him.  Bruno Manheim comes to mind.  His criminal organization antagonizes Superman early on and gets advanced technology from Darkseid who has his own agenda and later disposes of him when he's no longer useful.  As such Pate could be an unwitting pawn of the Praesides whether they have directly contacted him or not. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Loki on 18 Sep 2016, 12:25
Fan theory: Pete is actually Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, from the "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" fanfic.
(I might have been binge reading its unofficial sequel, Significant Digits, for the past two days :psyduck:).

Proof:
* they both want to use technology to do stuff
* they are both toying with powers they do not understand
* most damningly, they both have glasses

If you cannot see it, you are blind.  :clairedoge:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 18 Sep 2016, 12:54
I can't see it, my glasses are missing.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 18 Sep 2016, 13:40


Possibly.  He could be the kind of antagonist who is introduced early on that seems impressive and scary until someone worse eclipses him.  Bruno Manheim comes to mind.  His criminal organization antagonizes Superman early on and gets advanced technology from Darkseid who has his own agenda and later disposes of him when he's no longer useful.  As such Pate could be an unwitting pawn of the Praesides whether they have directly contacted him or not.

Agreed on all counts. There's no way he knows the Praesides, but he will definitely be their unwitting pawn in this case.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: Pogopotamus on 18 Sep 2016, 19:44
If, per his comments, Pate "knows" about Alice and how old she is and that she's a non-human lifeform then isn't it pretty much a given that big guy knows also? If that's the case I'm not seeing how her stealthy disable+run exit plan is going to play out because it's (or was) based on them seeing her as harmless. Per Pate's comments she is clearly understood to be a powerful old-tech entity and big guy will be watching her (and assumedly Sedna's) every move.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 18 Sep 2016, 19:48
How big would you say Ellie is? I'm guessing 6'1 around 210 -220 lbs. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 19 Sep 2016, 02:37
but space dwellers seem like the ones that favored biological enhancement
Thinking about it the use of baseline as the reference does seem to me to support this. Gavia shorn of nanotech still has sur-human capabilities, and Ardent may have sur-human regrowth capabilities as well as non human mods. 

Mind you we are assuming that the space habitat/earth habitat divisions mirror the pre blink divisions. That may not be a safe assumption.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 19 Sep 2016, 02:41
Purely FWIW, I have always assumed that the post-Blink division is that the militant/absolutist wings of both factions are in space (in differing orbital inclinations, making it hard to get at each other) and the pacific/neutral groups are on Earth.


[edit]
Just cleared up a key point - The architects of the Blink probably acted to keep the two factions' militant wings from being able to easily attack each other.

I also wonder if they may have since merged into a single ultra-high-tech faction, five millennia having made them forget their differences and embrace their similarities (which is why Gavia and Ardent are both biomodified and nanotech-enhanced).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: brasca on 19 Sep 2016, 03:47
If, per his comments, Pate "knows" about Alice and how old she is and that she's a non-human lifeform then isn't it pretty much a given that big guy knows also? If that's the case I'm not seeing how her stealthy disable+run exit plan is going to play out because it's (or was) based on them seeing her as harmless. Per Pate's comments she is clearly understood to be a powerful old-tech entity and big guy will be watching her (and assumedly Sedna's) every move.

Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people and certainly isn't the leader of a village like Alice.  However, she's still no match for the big guy as Alice estimates so at best she might complicate Pate's plans and could possibly take Ardent and Gavia with her if they target Alice and dismiss Sedna as just a travelling companion. 

Purely FWIW, I have always assumed that the post-Blink division is that the militant/absolutist wings of both factions are in space (in differing orbital inclinations, making it hard to get at them) and the pacific/neutral groups are on Earth.

Never thought of it that way.  As such there could be a third faction in all this that we have yet to meet.  I'm still not sure what faction Ardent and Gavia are descended from, but leaning towards the technological faction striving to recreate artificial intelligence, but not opposed to biological enhancement. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: BenRG on 19 Sep 2016, 05:25
As such there could be a third faction in all this that we have yet to meet.

I've said this before but it deserves repeating - I suspect that the missing sentient AIs may be the third faction. I'm wondering if the bioengineered sentient AIs (the Praeses) and the synthetic sentient AIs (the Blink Archetects?) are still pursuing their creators ancient feud with the Earthbound purestrain humans, both factions' long-abandoned super-soldiers and the spacebourne post-humans caught in the middle.

Could this end with a Babylon 5-like "Leave us the hell alone!" speech from Alice?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 19 Sep 2016, 16:19
But who are the Vorlons and who are the Shadows

And will it turn out that tall and silent is Lorien?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: hedgie on 19 Sep 2016, 16:50
The older races have already left the galaxy after some guy started yelling at them.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 19 Sep 2016, 17:02
Maybe the AIs are the equivalent of Lorien.  They withdrew from the conflict following the Blink and have remained hidden all this time. 

So much fiction involves machines overthrowing humanity so it would be refreshing to read a story about how the machines saw the futility in the endless war and orchestrated the blink before leaving Earth.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: JimC on 20 Sep 2016, 04:40
Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people

Interesting. I'd have put it the other way round, and had Sedna who "travels all over" as the one who has a lot of interaction with people.

http://www.alicegrove.com/post/131984719799/never-ride-a-weird-dog
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/137654075099/this-keeps-hapening

I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).




Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: brasca on 20 Sep 2016, 08:23
Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people

Interesting. I'd have put it the other way round, and had Sedna who "travels all over" as the one who has a lot of interaction with people.

http://www.alicegrove.com/post/131984719799/never-ride-a-weird-dog
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/137654075099/this-keeps-hapening

I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).

Perhaps I should have said continuous interaction.  Sedna travels, but being immortal she may only appear every decade so it's difficult to establish any history.  Alice on the other hand has been at her village for centuries so everyone knows her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT
Post by: FunkyTuba on 21 Sep 2016, 14:42
I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).

I don't see Pate recognizing her (?) in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/149849457474/he-used-to-be-extremely-spry he greets her saying "pleased to meet y-." and then gets distracted by Ardent. Did I miss a scene?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 21 Sep 2016, 16:31
"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 21 Sep 2016, 23:12
We know from Pate's introductory strip that he has agents watching Alice. He's probably got agents watching lots of people. One wonders if she knows about him watching her or if he's got lots of surprises in store for our protagonists!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: HiFranc on 25 Sep 2016, 11:47
I know I'm late but I have my own theories about the man who scared Alice.  First of all:

We know that Alice probably did things in the war that were not legal.  I suspect that she took part in massacres, etc.  We get the impression from Sedna that she's been trying to atone for that for the past 5000 years.  Also, in real life, soldiers often find a way to come together after the dust has settled.  I get the impression that Alice would try to get on with the former soldiers on the other side as that's likely to keep the peace.

From this I deduce that any negative assessment must strike to the core of his personality.  My theories are, therefore:

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 26 Sep 2016, 12:20
"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.

yes. sure I can see it that way. Pate almost certainly knows more than he lets on, and Alice has a tendency to keep things close to the vest, but it's a little difficult given the (admirable) economy of dialog Jeph's using here for me to see it concretely either way given that Pate has almost surely had the advantage of a few hours of Ardent blabbermouthing while it got dark.

...and the eager anticipation of the next update continues...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 26 Sep 2016, 22:07
Not a valid %s URL
"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.

yes. sure I can see it that way. Pate almost certainly knows more than he lets on, and Alice has a tendency to keep things close to the vest, but it's a little difficult given the (admirable) economy of dialog Jeph's using here for me to see it concretely either way given that Pate has almost surely had the advantage of a few hours of Ardent blabbermouthing while it got dark.

...and the eager anticipation of the next update continues...

I'm guessing it will go a little something like this.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 26 Sep 2016, 23:09
Oh man, I remember that game. I played so much of it when it was new...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: JimC on 28 Sep 2016, 12:47
New Up.

I'm not sure I can see Mr Eyes in the bar scene.  Maybe frame 2. Is he on guard?
OTOH  I can also imagine Sedna in a "only supposed to blow the bloody doors off" scenario...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 28 Sep 2016, 12:51
Well at least Ardent got knocked out by non violent means.  Hopefully, he was more interested in hitting on Ellie and didn't say something he shouldn't have. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 28 Sep 2016, 14:40
Gavia may be worried about her brother's drinking habits. However, something tells me that he got off lightly. I think Sedna carried him away just before his attempts to seduce Ellie just got embarrassing.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Kugai on 28 Sep 2016, 14:42
I wonder how many it took to drink him under the table

Five'll get you ten Odd Eyes is guarding the wagon.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: jheartney on 28 Sep 2016, 15:57
I'll be surprised if this attempt to run is successful. Instead, I think we're about to be treated to a demonstration of what Alice calls "our level bad news." Hope there are no fatalities.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 28 Sep 2016, 16:06
Gavia may be worried about her brother's drinking habits. However, something tells me that he got off lightly. I think Sedna carried him away just before his attempts to seduce Ellie just got embarrassing.

I think she's more concerned that there is someone more powerful than Alice.  Given Ardent's augmentation he probably has a higher tolerance for alcohol than a baseline human and none of the side effects.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Pogopotamus on 28 Sep 2016, 18:56
This is definitely not going to end well for Sedna.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: hedgie on 28 Sep 2016, 22:39
I think she's more concerned that there is someone more powerful than Alice.  Given Ardent's augmentation he probably has a higher tolerance for alcohol than a baseline human and none of the side effects.

He's still small.  As I have learnt from experience, even very small people with a high tolerance succumb before those who are larger.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 28 Sep 2016, 22:45
This is definitely not going to end well for Sedna.

I hope not.  It's not like Alice has enough to feel guilty about. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 29 Sep 2016, 02:15
I'm a bit surprised that Alice sent Sedna to the sabotage mission and chose to prepare the carriage herself. I guess that
Observe that Sedna does not question Alice's plan at all. This is a military operation for both of them - one leads and the other follows (orders).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: BenRG on 29 Sep 2016, 02:17
This is definitely not going to end well for Sedna.

I hope not.  It's not like Alice has enough to feel guilty about. 

It depends; if Alice has to step in to save Sedna and the two of them fight with the Terminator/Whatever who is acting as Pate's muscle, we might as a consequence learn more about them and their origins. Especially if Sedna is seriously injured and Alice needs to explain things to Ardent and Gavia so they can help her heal/repair her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: brasca on 29 Sep 2016, 03:42
I'm a bit surprised that Alice sent Sedna to the sabotage mission and chose to prepare the carriage herself. I guess that
  • Alice and Sedna have worked as a team before and know each others strengths inside out.
  • In particular that Sedna has a Stealth +8 boon (or whatever it is called in roguelike games) that makes her a perfect choice. Even though she would probably also be better adept in preparing the Struthis for the journey as well.
  • May be Alice thinks that the Big Guy knows about her and the threat she poses, but is ignorant about Sedna?
Observe that Sedna does not question Alice's plan at all. This is a military operation for both of them - one leads and the other follows (orders).

Good points, but I think Alice is more knowledgeable of Ardent's ability and knows what to do next.  If it were Alice to have an unfortunate encounter with the big guy then Sedna could still get away with Ardent and Gavia, but if the Praeses have more plans it might not matter if she can't outwit them. 

This is definitely not going to end well for Sedna.

I hope not.  It's not like Alice has enough to feel guilty about. 

It depends; if Alice has to step in to save Sedna and the two of them fight with the Terminator/Whatever who is acting as Pate's muscle, we might as a consequence learn more about them and their origins. Especially if Sedna is seriously injured and Alice needs to explain things to Ardent and Gavia so they can help her heal/repair her.

That would provide some good exposition, but we've already had a situation where a character was knocked out for weeks.  It would seem redundant if they're carting Sedna around for 3 weeks while she recuperates. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: KevxD on 29 Sep 2016, 06:46
It's killing me having to wait a week in between updates on this story arc!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: Gyrre on 04 Oct 2016, 06:35
Hmmm... I wonder if Pate's glasses are depicted as such to vsually represent that he's blinded by his own ambition?

His body guard also has a thing going on with his eyes. Possibly heterochromia, or perhaps he's blind in one eye (or used to be). Either way, more potential symbolism.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - September 2016
Post by: KevxD on 04 Oct 2016, 10:08
Hmmm... I wonder if Pate's glasses are depicted as such to vsually represent that he's blinded by his own ambition?

His body guard also has a thing going on with his eyes. Possibly heterochromia, or perhaps he's blind in one eye (or used to be). Either way, more potential symbolism.

Pate's glasses remind me of Dale's

(http://www.questionablecontent.net/cast/dale.png)

Although they don't have the same glow