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Another immortal like Alice and Sedna

A marooned space habitat dweller like Ardent and Gavia

A human collaborator of the Praeses

An ordinary human with a network of spies and assassins that could threaten Alice's village if she resists.

An ordinary human that will be the first man sent to the moon in thousands of years for grossly underestimating who he was dealing with.

[Method of Madness]

The last one showed very well just how strong he is. Alice: A concrete door? Practically paper. (sees this guy) He is doing me a frighten.

[Neko_Ali]

And alternate read is that, she recognized Henchman as some as dangerous as she and Sedna. She also realized quickly that Mr Pate's arrival is no coincidence. He was not very convincingly surprised to find Ardent here and immediately started in with probing questions. This rightly sets off warning bells in her mind. Without the presence of Henchman Mr Pate would be a nuisance. But if she gets into a conflict with him, that means a fight will almost certainly happen with Henchman. and not a 'fun' fight like she had with Sedna. But one that could devastate the camp and put her charges in danger. Best way to handle it then, is try to get away quickly. If Pate and Hench can't follow, so much the better. If they can, well at least that gets the camp out of the line of fire.

[hedgie]

So in this case, she's trying to *avoid* being Alice the humanoid Typhoon?

[brasca]

And alternate read is that, she recognized Henchman as some as dangerous as she and Sedna. She also realized quickly that Mr Pate's arrival is no coincidence. He was not very convincingly surprised to find Ardent here and immediately started in with probing questions. This rightly sets off warning bells in her mind. Without the presence of Henchman Mr Pate would be a nuisance. But if she gets into a conflict with him, that means a fight will almost certainly happen with Henchman. and not a 'fun' fight like she had with Sedna. But one that could devastate the camp and put her charges in danger. Best way to handle it then, is try to get away quickly. If Pate and Hench can't follow, so much the better. If they can, well at least that gets the camp out of the line of fire.

The last word to Sedna is open to interpretation.  As a team they might be able to defeat the big guy, but there would be a lot of collateral damage which could include Ardent who's needed to upgrade whatever they find in the bunker as well as the bunker since if there are rockets within those could be destroyed in the process. 

It's notable that Sedna while shocked doesn't seem too surprised that others like her exist and could be much stronger. 

[Tova]

Well, now I know how frightened Alice is. I await the next comic to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes. If she didn't know him, I don't see a good reason as to why she'd be frightened of another person on her level, instead of saying: "Oh hi, how are you? I don't think we've met before, which strikes me as strange considering how alike we are." Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side and must be feared on principle.

Well, it could be that, for example, the mismatching eyes are an outward manifestation of a modification that she's seen before and has reason to fear.

[Pogopotamus]

I want to see what happens if / when they get the  rocket out and Arent touches it with his nano upgrading powers. He could also pull the same trick with the steam powered carriage if they steal it. Both are complex machines.   

[brasca]

I want to see what happens if / when they get the  rocket out and Arent touches it with his nano upgrading powers. He could also pull the same trick with the steam powered carriage if they steal it. Both are complex machines.

That might be a better alternative than sabotaging the carriage and escaping in a bird driven wagon.  It would certainly be quicker, however, if the technology was something that required fuel that couldn't be found then they'd be on foot once the carriage ran out of power. 

[BenRG]

After all, our heroes' quest would go smoother if they had something larger, faster and long-ranged than a two-Struthi wooden cart. Something like this for example...


Mega-City 1 Justice Department Land Raider

SEDNA: "Cool! I always wanted to drive one of these!"

ALICE: "I'm sitting in the gunner's chair. Because I don't trust you with a 30mm chain gun and multiple missile launchers."

[Method of Madness]

Sedna: Yes, you made that clear when you broke all my weapons.

[FunkyTuba]

Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side...

There's also the possibility that Alice *was* the opposite side and it was everyone against her.

[JimC]

...to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes...

Also note that Alice knows what he is (presumably who he is as well) while Sedna doesn't. To me that suggests individual recognition.

[Kugai]

Holy crap BenRG!  I haven't seen that Model in years!!  I used to have it myself but can't remember what happened to it.


I think Alice either knows him personally or has run into his 'Type' before.

[retrosteve]

Well, now I know how frightened Alice is. I await the next comic to see if Alice knows the guy personally. I'm inclined to think yes. If she didn't know him, I don't see a good reason as to why she'd be frightened of another person on her level, instead of saying: "Oh hi, how are you? I don't think we've met before, which strikes me as strange considering how alike we are." Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side and must be feared on principle.

I really don't believe Alice and Sedna are going to meet anyone on Earth who was from the AI faction -- they've been Blinked away. But she might know that "those big guys with the funny eyes" in general were bad news to her bunch, or were specially bred to be.
Or she might recognize that guy.

[brasca]

Unless the conflict from the two opposing factions of humanity was so terrible she assumes everyone on her level she doesn't know was on the opposite side...

There's also the possibility that Alice *was* the opposite side and it was everyone against her.

The problem is determining what side Alice was on in the war and what side was left behind on Earth and which one was established in orbit.  I'm not entirely certain, but space dwellers seem like the ones that favored biological enhancement and still live the way this faction lived albeit peacefully.  As for those that favored artificial intelligence they may be the Earth dwellers and as such appear to be the faction that got the short end of the stick since there are no AIs roaming the Earth and all of the technological developments over the centuries were set back.  Of course it could be just the opposite if the space dwellers are indeed the descendants of the AI faction and the Praeses are the closest relative to the original AIs.  And the Earth dwellers are the biological faction and even though they lack the means of further genetic developments these so-called baseline humans are the descendants of the ones that were genetically enhanced thousands of years ago and are still far more evolved than a human from today's time.   

[brasca]

Strip is up!

Somehow I think this is the least sinister way of Mr. Pate to explain who he is and what his goals are. 

And Ardent still has a one track mind. 

[JimC]

I do like the way we have Alice and henchman watching each other out of the corner of their eyes in the background.

[retrosteve]

Whole lot about Jasper Pate today!

• He's a local king/warlord of a coastal city-state.
• He is very into old-timey technology because: it increases his POWER.  He says so.
• He's a politician first, a warlord second. He prefers to seem harmless and friendly when it suits his purposes.
• He knows all about Alice, but hasn't bothered talking to her. He knows how long she's been around and what she knows. He also presumably knows how capable she is, and isn't worried. He's probably secure that his security guy can beat her. Alice probably knows something of him, too, but she might not.

My predictions:
He probably doesn't know about Ardent's nano-virus or Alice's plans. But Ardent will blurt it out shortly.
If he finds out about Ardent's nano-virus, he will want Ardent for sure, and won't give a flying f*ck about Alice's paranoia.
The friendly demeanor will disappear the instant he decides to take Ardent with him and is opposed.

[Storel]

"Ha ha! Listen to me! So grandiloquent!"

And so rehearsed. He's trying way too hard to seem like a nice, friendly guy, which means he's almost certainly neither.

Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.

[Kugai]

The velvet glove hiding the Titanium fist.

Still not sure I would trust this guys motivations entirely.

[Stoutfellow]

Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.

She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.

[brasca]

Whole lot about Jasper Pate today!

• He's a local king/warlord of a coastal city-state.
• He is very into old-timey technology because: it increases his POWER.  He says so.
• He's a politician first, a warlord second. He prefers to seem harmless and friendly when it suits his purposes.
• He knows all about Alice, but hasn't bothered talking to her. He knows how long she's been around and what she knows. He also presumably knows how capable she is, and isn't worried. He's probably secure that his security guy can beat her. Alice probably knows something of him, too, but she might not.

My predictions:
He probably doesn't know about Ardent's nano-virus or Alice's plans. But Ardent will blurt it out shortly.
If he finds out about Ardent's nano-virus, he will want Ardent for sure, and won't give a flying f*ck about Alice's paranoia.
The friendly demeanor will disappear the instant he decides to take Ardent with him and is opposed.

Indeed.  Ardent hasn't divulged his secret ability yet, but Pate knows his weakness.  All he has to do is give him the run of the finest brothel in his kingdom and he'll spill the beans...  among other things.

[retrosteve]

She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.

She's screwing up letting Ardent talk freely to Jasper. She should take him aside and warn him sternly about mentioning his touch ability.

[brasca]

She may not want to let Ardent near the carriage.

She's screwing up letting Ardent talk freely to Jasper. She should take him aside and warn him sternly about mentioning his touch ability.

That would look suspicious.  She might tell Gavia to punch Ardent.  It would be less suspicious and Alice wouldn't have to ask twice.

[Skewbrow]

Not sure why Alice wants to disable his carriage, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to steal it? They could get away much faster then.

After letting Ardent first upgrade it, presumably. The downside would be to leave the two loyal struthis behind. So cruel!

It may well be that Pate & Entourage are camping in the carriage or its immediate vicinity. Pate could afford a five star hotel, but none is available, and the security might/should object to other arrangements. That leaves sabotage.

[Zebediah]

Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?

[BenRG]

He likes playing with toys he doesn't really understand. Mucking around with them has triggered an avalanche of events (including the Night Walker going over to attack mode) that he does not understand and is not even fully aware of just yet.

[Wildroses]

Anybody else think Jesper was really thinking: "Pffft, good luck with that kid!" in the last panel?

[retrosteve]

Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?

I'll go out on a limb and predict that his role is to do just the opposite of what Alice wants: he wants to get Ardent to upgrade all his technology, advancing the Praesides' plan for his own obvious reasons.  He is probably ignorant or not interested in their plan anyway.  He probably thinks Ardent and Gavia have access to great nanotech, which he can use to increase his own influence. He's right, though ultimately it's going to trigger an avalanche of nasty consequences if he succeeds. 

As petty short-sighted villains typically do, he'll probably die in the first wave of awful, just before the most serious of these consequences becomes obvious.

Oh, wait -- P.S. He was first interested because of the explosion on the moon. He may be hoping to go to space himself, or send his henchmen there.

[brasca]

Pate seems like kind of a minor-league villain. Sure, he's got a scary henchman, but there's no way he's the Big Bad of the story. So what, I wonder, is his role in the big picture?

I'll go out on a limb and predict that his role is to do just the opposite of what Alice wants: he wants to get Ardent to upgrade all his technology, advancing the Praesides' plan for his own obvious reasons.  He is probably ignorant or not interested in their plan anyway.  He probably thinks Ardent and Gavia have access to great nanotech, which he can use to increase his own influence. He's right, though ultimately it's going to trigger an avalanche of nasty consequences if he succeeds. 

As petty short-sighted villains typically do, he'll probably die in the first wave of awful, just before the most serious of these consequences becomes obvious.

Oh, wait -- P.S. He was first interested because of the explosion on the moon. He may be hoping to go to space himself, or send his henchmen there.

Possibly.  He could be the kind of antagonist who is introduced early on that seems impressive and scary until someone worse eclipses him.  Bruno Manheim comes to mind.  His criminal organization antagonizes Superman early on and gets advanced technology from Darkseid who has his own agenda and later disposes of him when he's no longer useful.  As such Pate could be an unwitting pawn of the Praesides whether they have directly contacted him or not. 

[Loki]

Fan theory: Pete is actually Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, from the "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" fanfic.
(I might have been binge reading its unofficial sequel, Significant Digits, for the past two days ).

Proof:
* they both want to use technology to do stuff
* they are both toying with powers they do not understand
* most damningly, they both have glasses

If you cannot see it, you are blind. 

[Neko_Ali]

I can't see it, my glasses are missing.

[retrosteve]

Possibly.  He could be the kind of antagonist who is introduced early on that seems impressive and scary until someone worse eclipses him.  Bruno Manheim comes to mind.  His criminal organization antagonizes Superman early on and gets advanced technology from Darkseid who has his own agenda and later disposes of him when he's no longer useful.  As such Pate could be an unwitting pawn of the Praesides whether they have directly contacted him or not.

Agreed on all counts. There's no way he knows the Praesides, but he will definitely be their unwitting pawn in this case.

[Pogopotamus]

If, per his comments, Pate "knows" about Alice and how old she is and that she's a non-human lifeform then isn't it pretty much a given that big guy knows also? If that's the case I'm not seeing how her stealthy disable+run exit plan is going to play out because it's (or was) based on them seeing her as harmless. Per Pate's comments she is clearly understood to be a powerful old-tech entity and big guy will be watching her (and assumedly Sedna's) every move.   

[Pogopotamus]

How big would you say Ellie is? I'm guessing 6'1 around 210 -220 lbs. 

[JimC]

but space dwellers seem like the ones that favored biological enhancement

Thinking about it the use of baseline as the reference does seem to me to support this. Gavia shorn of nanotech still has sur-human capabilities, and Ardent may have sur-human regrowth capabilities as well as non human mods. 

Mind you we are assuming that the space habitat/earth habitat divisions mirror the pre blink divisions. That may not be a safe assumption.

[BenRG]

Purely FWIW, I have always assumed that the post-Blink division is that the militant/absolutist wings of both factions are in space (in differing orbital inclinations, making it hard to get at each other) and the pacific/neutral groups are on Earth.


[edit]
Just cleared up a key point - The architects of the Blink probably acted to keep the two factions' militant wings from being able to easily attack each other.

I also wonder if they may have since merged into a single ultra-high-tech faction, five millennia having made them forget their differences and embrace their similarities (which is why Gavia and Ardent are both biomodified and nanotech-enhanced).

[brasca]

If, per his comments, Pate "knows" about Alice and how old she is and that she's a non-human lifeform then isn't it pretty much a given that big guy knows also? If that's the case I'm not seeing how her stealthy disable+run exit plan is going to play out because it's (or was) based on them seeing her as harmless. Per Pate's comments she is clearly understood to be a powerful old-tech entity and big guy will be watching her (and assumedly Sedna's) every move.

Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people and certainly isn't the leader of a village like Alice.  However, she's still no match for the big guy as Alice estimates so at best she might complicate Pate's plans and could possibly take Ardent and Gavia with her if they target Alice and dismiss Sedna as just a travelling companion. 

Purely FWIW, I have always assumed that the post-Blink division is that the militant/absolutist wings of both factions are in space (in differing orbital inclinations, making it hard to get at them) and the pacific/neutral groups are on Earth.

Never thought of it that way.  As such there could be a third faction in all this that we have yet to meet.  I'm still not sure what faction Ardent and Gavia are descended from, but leaning towards the technological faction striving to recreate artificial intelligence, but not opposed to biological enhancement. 

[BenRG]

As such there could be a third faction in all this that we have yet to meet.

I've said this before but it deserves repeating - I suspect that the missing sentient AIs may be the third faction. I'm wondering if the bioengineered sentient AIs (the Praeses) and the synthetic sentient AIs (the Blink Archetects?) are still pursuing their creators ancient feud with the Earthbound purestrain humans, both factions' long-abandoned super-soldiers and the spacebourne post-humans caught in the middle.

Could this end with a Babylon 5-like "Leave us the hell alone!" speech from Alice?

[Kugai]

But who are the Vorlons and who are the Shadows

And will it turn out that tall and silent is Lorien?

[hedgie]

The older races have already left the galaxy after some guy started yelling at them.

[brasca]

Maybe the AIs are the equivalent of Lorien.  They withdrew from the conflict following the Blink and have remained hidden all this time. 

So much fiction involves machines overthrowing humanity so it would be refreshing to read a story about how the machines saw the futility in the endless war and orchestrated the blink before leaving Earth.

[JimC]

Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people

Interesting. I'd have put it the other way round, and had Sedna who "travels all over" as the one who has a lot of interaction with people.

http://www.alicegrove.com/post/131984719799/never-ride-a-weird-dog
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/137654075099/this-keeps-hapening

I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).

[brasca]

Sedna could be the wildcard since other that the archaeophiles she doesn't have much interaction with people

Interesting. I'd have put it the other way round, and had Sedna who "travels all over" as the one who has a lot of interaction with people.

http://www.alicegrove.com/post/131984719799/never-ride-a-weird-dog
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/137654075099/this-keeps-hapening

I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).

Perhaps I should have said continuous interaction.  Sedna travels, but being immortal she may only appear every decade so it's difficult to establish any history.  Alice on the other hand has been at her village for centuries so everyone knows her.

[FunkyTuba]

I was quite surprised that Pate recognised Alice, and maybe not Sedna (although I submit we don't know about that).

I don't see Pate recognizing her (?) in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/149849457474/he-used-to-be-extremely-spry he greets her saying "pleased to meet y-." and then gets distracted by Ardent. Did I miss a scene?

[TinPenguin]

"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.

[BenRG]

We know from Pate's introductory strip that he has agents watching Alice. He's probably got agents watching lots of people. One wonders if she knows about him watching her or if he's got lots of surprises in store for our protagonists!

[HiFranc]

I know I'm late but I have my own theories about the man who scared Alice.  First of all:

We know that Alice probably did things in the war that were not legal.  I suspect that she took part in massacres, etc.  We get the impression from Sedna that she's been trying to atone for that for the past 5000 years.  Also, in real life, soldiers often find a way to come together after the dust has settled.  I get the impression that Alice would try to get on with the former soldiers on the other side as that's likely to keep the peace.

From this I deduce that any negative assessment must strike to the core of his personality.  My theories are, therefore:

• Someone who likes killing.
• Someone who doesn't care about collateral damage.
• Someone who would prefer to work for dictators, shady characters, etc.
• Someone looking to restart the war.

[FunkyTuba]

"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.

yes. sure I can see it that way. Pate almost certainly knows more than he lets on, and Alice has a tendency to keep things close to the vest, but it's a little difficult given the (admirable) economy of dialog Jeph's using here for me to see it concretely either way given that Pate has almost surely had the advantage of a few hours of Ardent blabbermouthing while it got dark.

...and the eager anticipation of the next update continues...

[Pogopotamus]

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"Heck, if it weren't for people like your friend Alice..."

Given that Alice probably doesn't introduce herself with a full autobiography, we might assume he already knew who she was, even if he hadn't actually met her.

yes. sure I can see it that way. Pate almost certainly knows more than he lets on, and Alice has a tendency to keep things close to the vest, but it's a little difficult given the (admirable) economy of dialog Jeph's using here for me to see it concretely either way given that Pate has almost surely had the advantage of a few hours of Ardent blabbermouthing while it got dark.

...and the eager anticipation of the next update continues...

I'm guessing it will go a little something like this.

[Neko_Ali]

Oh man, I remember that game. I played so much of it when it was new...