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Dinner with Beatrice

A date with someone

She's going to the Church of Gary!

Her Evil Twin Sister is marrying someone (!) and she's going to sit at the back of the chapel

She's helping Arthur out at the Self-Help Group and she likes to look professional

She's agreed to chaperone Brun and Elliott

She's agreed to chaperone Clinton and Emily (I doubt it would be anything anyone would recognise as a date!)

She's wearing a pullover to teach Bubbles how to pull off the cardigan look

She's meeting a venture capitalist to get start-up cash for the cleaning business she wants to start with Brun

Other

[SpanielBear]

I'm sufficiently creeped out by them that I'll just call them by whatever they tell me to call them, and then never repeat it in case it results in their return.

Question to ponder- people have said a lot about the effect that rediscovering her memories will have on Bubbles, which is fair enough. But given Lennox of the Endless mentioned something about Emily having to "go in" to unlock those memories, does that imply that Emily will experience them as well? And if so, what kind of effect will that have on her? If she's just seeing from a remote perspective, like viewing a movie that could be bad enough, but if she gets a full on sensory experience of something that induced PTSD in a badass combat-trained AI Valkyrie, I'd be concerned for Emily's mental health by the end of the procedure.

[osaka]

Wait, was there ever any semblance of mental health on Emily to begin with?

On other news, I'm pretty astonished by how Mercedes went "Wouldn't work" on the physical violence threat. I assume they're an AI, but let's be serious here, Bubbles could very well crush them into their molecular components.

[Celly]

Wait, was there ever any semblance of mental health on Emily to begin with?

On other news, I'm pretty astonished by how Mercedes went "Wouldn't work" on the physical violence threat. I assume they're an AI, but let's be serious here, Bubbles could very well crush them into their molecular components.

Not if they're Grey Goo.  The nanobots would just melt around her fists.  She knows who they are and she knows full well she can't do anything.  Her threat was empty, but she wanted to show displeasure.

Everything points to a nanobot swarm.

[Tova]

Wait, was there ever any semblance of mental health on Emily to begin with?

She's probably better adjusted then just about all of the main cast members.

You just can't handle her weirdness.

[ZoeB]

I am calling them Legion and my theory is that they are Grey Goo.

They've been in hiding because people would freak out and probably blow an EMP, since they are literally (in this form at least) a walking end-of-the-world scenario - but they aren't motivated to wipe out the world, by whatever lucky happenstance. 

I signed up for these forums because you all are terrible at theory crafting.

Er.. a hivemind that clueful, one of the first things they do is to port onto EMP resistant hardware/wetware. Good idea anyway to have lithophile backups as well in case of gamma ray bursters, to reboot life in a reasonable time, millions not billions of years. Go Arrhenious ( see Arrhenius)  too.

See Brin's Existence. Or Vinge's Fire on the Deep for a Rocco Basilisk.

I feel that talking about organised crime or even world wars when dealing with such entities is at best like toddlers discussing how to unwrap a chocolate bar during a meeting of nuclear physicists, and worrying that one might snatch their rattle away.

[Celly]

I am calling them Legion and my theory is that they are Grey Goo.

They've been in hiding because people would freak out and probably blow an EMP, since they are literally (in this form at least) a walking end-of-the-world scenario - but they aren't motivated to wipe out the world, by whatever lucky happenstance. 

I signed up for these forums because you all are terrible at theory crafting.

Er.. a hivemind that clueful, one of the first things they do is to port onto EMP resistant hardware/wetware. Good idea anyway to have lithophile backups as well in case of gamma ray bursters, to reboot life in a reasonable time, millions not billions of years. Go Arrhenious ( see Arrhenius)  too.

See Brin's Existence. Or Vinge's Fire on the Deep for a Rocco Basilisk.

I feel that talking about organised crime or even world wars when dealing with such entities is at best like toddlers discussing how to unwrap a chocolate bar during a meeting of nuclear physicists, and worrying that one might snatch their rattle away.

It's a good point, to which I say "maybe."  The AI don't seem as powerful as some of the real-life predictions we have for a post-singularity world.  Why do AI's have human level intelligence and underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

There is also the assumption that EMP-resistant hardware is even possible and within the capabilities for Legion to invent it.

I think Legion is smarter than most AI by at least an order of magnitude, but the capabilities are by no means infinite for AI in this universe.  Coupled with the assumption that Station is keeping Legion in check.  In fact, Orbital Railgun Justice is probably a better rationale for good behavior than is an EMP.

[de_la_Nae]

Why do AI's have ... underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

There's no reason to think, in the expanse of the post-Singularity mind, that some of them wouldn't find fighting to be fun.

[TheEvilDog]

Why do AI's have ... underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

There's no reason to think, in the expanse of the post-Singularity mind, that some of them wouldn't find fighting to be fun.

Why do we humans have fight clubs? Because its fun for some people and for others, its a way to make a lot of money very quickly.

Despite the fact that the Singularity has occurred in the QC-verse, its quite obvious that the world is not in the best state. There's some degree of discrimination towards AI, both from within and without the community. Unless you're an AnthroPC and paired with a human, I would imagine that being an AI in the world is quite difficult. I mean, look at May and Bubbles. May couldn't even get basic healthcare from the government when her chassis began to fall apart and had to go to an illegal repair shop for help. Bubbles is ostracised by both the human and AI communities for choosing to serve in the military. Neither of them have many options.

The Singularity may have happened, but human nature isn't so easily changed. And we know that AI are made in humanity's image.

[Tova]

Why do AI's have human level intelligence and underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

You're thinking of "utopia."

[Is it cold in here?]

Given that Bubbles was designed to be a member of a combat team

I had come away with a different impression after her conversation with Momo about choosing the military as a career. It sounded like she was a run-of-the-mill AI who thought she should serve her country.

If someone in the QC world is designing people with personality traits to adapt them to being members of a combat team then the ethical issues are intense.

[Akima]

I had come away with a different impression after her conversation with Momo about choosing the military as a career. It sounded like she was a run-of-the-mill AI who thought she should serve her country.

That's a good point I had forgotten. Perhaps I was thinking too much about the computers of today, rather than self-aware AI people.

[JimC]

The AI don't seem as powerful as some of the real-life predictions we have for a post-singularity world.  Why do AI's have human level intelligence and underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

One shouldn't forget real life predictions are fiction too.
As for fight clubs and the like, slavemasters keep slaves and farm animals fed and watered if economically practical so long as they are assets, but often see no reason not to let free men and wild animals starve.

[Celly]

Why do AI's have ... underground fight clubs, if we've passed the singularity?

There's no reason to think, in the expanse of the post-Singularity mind, that some of them wouldn't find fighting to be fun.

Why do we humans have fight clubs? Because its fun for some people and for others, its a way to make a lot of money very quickly.

Despite the fact that the Singularity has occurred in the QC-verse, its quite obvious that the world is not in the best state. There's some degree of discrimination towards AI, both from within and without the community. Unless you're an AnthroPC and paired with a human, I would imagine that being an AI in the world is quite difficult. I mean, look at May and Bubbles. May couldn't even get basic healthcare from the government when her chassis began to fall apart and had to go to an illegal repair shop for help. Bubbles is ostracised by both the human and AI communities for choosing to serve in the military. Neither of them have many options.

The Singularity may have happened, but human nature isn't so easily changed. And we know that AI are made in humanity's image.

My point is that the Singularity did not confer the god status as predicted in the real world.  It was limited somehow.  There shouldn't be, for example, money, in the common conception of "post-Singularity" - even in the best case scenario where AI doesn't try to kill us, they've solved resource problems for us.

My point that AI is not godlike in the QC universe was specifically a counterpoint to one guy who thought out new friend Legion would be godlike (assuming my Grey Goo hypothesis is correct)

[blt]

As much as I do also sort of subscribe to the Faye/Bubbles ship, I really see this more as the leadership I'd expect from Bubs.  Identifying the least bad option in a bad situation, knowing when a fast choice is required, and still taking care of those around her.  #fave.

[Case]

I am calling them Legion and my theory is that they are Grey Goo.

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit, and there, Grey Goo is the nanotech equivalent of cancer ... Talked to a tumor lately?

(click to show/hide)

Nanobots are a pet peeve of mine ... Mostly because, despite the claims of feverish- and well-sponsored research, it's so hard to meet anybody working on them even theoretically. I work as a postdoctoral research fellow in theoretical solid state physics - that'd be the physics part of what is popularly called 'nanotech'. Let's just say I cannot confirm that researching nanobots is a 'hot topic' 

If it were, it would show up in the condensed-matter section of the archive-server arXiv.org, where nearly all physicist upload the pre-print versions of their papers (mostly in order to document their claim to a specific result in a timely manner).

-> Google-search for "condmat, nanobots" gives 518 hits (and many aren't even on condmat).  Google-search for "condmat, topological insulators" (one of the currently hot topics in solid state physics) gives 62.800 ...

And lastly, how would nanobots - structures whose dimensions are measured in a millionth of a millimetre: roughly a hundreth of the avg. diameter of a capillary - manage migrate from the contact point at Fayes forehead to every relevant motoneuronal pathway in a matter of seconds?

[cesium133]

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit

QC is sci-fi. I'm going with the MST3K mantra on this one...

(it was supposed to start at 1:01, but apparently you'll have to fast-forward it yourself or watch the whole thing)

[Case]

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit

QC is sci-fi.

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit and there, Grey Goo is the nanotech equivalent of cancer

MST3K mantra: Yeah, yeah, I know -> "The first rule of Fight Club ..." is how a grad-student in high energy once put it. I'm just pissed because nanobots are bad SF. And I intensely dislike Eric Drexler ...


Found a nice paper on the locomotion at micron-scale "Life at low Reynolds-numbers" by E.M. Purcell. Written for physicists, but in that lovely American-Natsci-style that makes it accessible also to lay-audiences (and much, much easier to understand for physicists, too ... Feynman did wonders for US physics curricula)

It helps to imagine under what conditions a man would be swimming at, say, the same Reynolds number as his own sperm. Well you put him in a swimming pool that is full of molasses, and the you forbid him to move any pare of his body faster than 1 cm/min. Now imagine yourself in that condition; you're under the swimming pool in molasses, and now you can only move like the hands of a clock. If under those ground rules you are able to move a few meters in a couple of weeks, you may qualify as a low Reynolds number swimmer.

I'll show you a picture of the real animals in a bit but we are going to be taking about objects which are the order of a micron in size (Fig. 4). That's a micron scale, not a suture, in the animal in Fig. 4. In water where the kinematic viscosity is 10^{-2} cm/sec these things move around with a typical speed of 30 micron/sec

[Celly]

I am calling them Legion and my theory is that they are Grey Goo.

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit, and there, Grey Goo is the nanotech equivalent of cancer ... Talked to a tumor lately?

(click to show/hide)

Nanobots are a pet peeve of mine ... Mostly because, despite the claims of feverish- and well-sponsored research, it's so hard to meet anybody working on them even theoretically. I work as a postdoctoral research fellow in theoretical solid state physics - that'd be the physics part of what is popularly called 'nanotech'. Let's just say I cannot confirm that researching nanobots is a 'hot topic' 

If it were, it would show up in the condensed-matter section of the archive-server arXiv.org, where nearly all physicist upload the pre-print versions of their papers (mostly in order to document their claim to a specific result in a timely manner).

-> Google-search for "condmat, nanobots" gives 518 hits (and many aren't even on condmat).  Google-search for "condmat, topological insulators" (one of the currently hot topics in solid state physics) gives 62.800 ...

And lastly, how would nanobots - structures whose dimensions are measured in a millionth of a millimetre: roughly a hundreth of the avg. diameter of a capillary - manage migrate from the contact point at Fayes forehead to every relevant motoneuronal pathway in a matter of seconds?

Yes, I am using "Grey Goo" in an not totally correct sense, to informally refer to a nanobot swarm.  Legion is a nanobot swarm.  Though Legion may be capable of "grey gooing" his environment, perhaps after a certain point when they achieved sentience, they decided it was more interesting to observe and interact with the world than to eat it.  It would certainly be easier to assemble a swarm of that size if the nanobots were capable of self-replication.

The neuron stuff, "because fiction."  I am making a prediction that Legion is a nanobot swarm, not that Jeph has been 100% perfectly accurate to every branch of physics.  Beyond that, a nanoscale "tendril" of nanobots could move much quicker than an individual disconnected from the swarm.

[BenRG]

My guess is that the 'weapon' the white-skinned one has been using has been some manner of infrasonic or ultrasonic system that is temporarily disabling sections of the target's brain (possibly due to brainwave harmonics or something).

[Case]

I'm going with good, old-fashioned transcranial magnetic stimulation 

[Is it cold in here?]

One of my favorite observations is "We are the gray goo".

[Case]

One of my favorite observations is "We are the gray pink goo".

FYP

[TheEvilDog]

Nanotbots exist only in SF-lit

QC is sci-fi. I'm going with the MST3K mantra on this one...

Always go with the MST3K mantra when dealing with the QC-verse.

[Is it cold in here?]

Except when over-analyzing is fun.

[Bollthorn]

This is certainly an AI of wealth and taste.

I see what you did there

[St.Clair]

Given that Bubbles was designed to be a member of a combat team

I had come away with a different impression after her conversation with Momo about choosing the military as a career. It sounded like she was a run-of-the-mill AI who thought she should serve her country.

If someone in the QC world is designing people with personality traits to adapt them to being members of a combat team then the ethical issues are intense.

My assumption was that she was part of some DARPA program akin to BigDog, and the whole bit about AIs being people came up literally during/in the middle of her development and/or deployment.
She wasn't, legally, a person when she was built and embedded with her squad; she was by the time whatever remained of it got decomissioned/mustered out.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

So assuming that GreyCreep is a mouthpiece for a collective intelligence:
I think that GC was assembled for this one task. The snarkiness is an expression of resentment at being diverted from more interesting business. Once the mission at hand is completed, the vacated chassis will collapse into its component parts. After all, they have better things to do.

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new people who I didn't already greet individually!

[Morituri]

Once the mission at hand is completed, the vacated chassis will collapse into its component parts. After all, they have better things to do.

This would be of interest to May, who apparently likes that color or something close to it, and has been having trouble with her parolee chassis.

Of course, a bit of genderbending is involved, but if Pintsize is to be believed that amounts to flipping a bit.

[Storel]

Once the mission at hand is completed, the vacated chassis will collapse into its component parts. After all, they have better things to do.

This would be of interest to May, who apparently likes that color or something close to it, and has been having trouble with her parolee chassis.

Of course, a bit of genderbending is involved, but if Pintsize is to be believed that amounts to flipping a bit.

If the component parts are the size of, say, individual molecules, I don't imagine there'll be anything left that May could use...

[Timemaster]

So assuming that GreyCreep is a mouthpiece for a collective intelligence:

That´s basically what I´m thinking too. Not an individual AI, but rather a drone. A remote operated chassis, directly controlled by one or more of those "more puissant AI´s".

But as far as I remember no one has come up with the most obvious reference: The Borg!

"We are Borg. We´ll have your encryption broken and your nasty stuff removed. And than you will be assimilated."
 

TM

[BenRG]

Poll Results Post

Just For What Was Hannelore All Dressed Up?
------------------------------
1. She's meeting a venture capitalist to get start-up cash for the cleaning business she wants to start with Brun - 7 (15.9%)
=2. She's going to the Church of Gary! - 6 (13.6%)
=2. She's wearing a pullover to teach Bubbles how to pull off the cardigan look - 6 (13.6%)
=2. She's helping Arthur out at the Self-Help Group and she likes to look professional - 6 (13.6%)
=2. Other - 6 (13.6%)
6. Her Evil Twin Sister is marrying someone (!) and she's going to sit at the back of the chapel - 4 (9.1%)
=7. Dinner with Beatrice - 3 (6.8%)
=7. A date with someone - 3 (6.8%)
=7. She's agreed to chaperone Brun and Elliott - 3 (6.8%)
x. She's agreed to chaperone Clinton and Emily (I doubt it would be anything anyone would recognise as a date!) - 0 (0%)

---------

A pretty close one this week but, nonetheless, there is a clear result, if a narrow one!

So, I'm reading from this that many readers want to see the birth of the bow-wearing Hanners and Brun's Cleaning Service! I'm also seeing that there isn't much enthusiasm for Clinton and Emily having a second date.

[Storel]

I'm also seeing that there isn't much enthusiasm for Clinton and Emily having a second date.

Not much enthusiasm for having Hanners chaperone Clinton and Emily's second date, anyway. Don't read more into the data than is actually there. 

[DuneCanid]

In any case, I expect we'll see more and more (human) characters go the way of Sara and Yelling Bird.

Yelling Bird is too convenient a device to be gone. It will be back.

DC, l5ls.