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Author Topic: Nintendo....Wii?  (Read 30433 times)

JodyAnthony

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Nintendo....Wii?
« on: 27 Apr 2006, 09:32 »

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Alegis

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Nintendo....Wii?
« Reply #1 on: 27 Apr 2006, 10:06 »

Wii ? I preferred revolution although that site has some nice points for the name. I think it's allright. We have a Wiinner

Ha ha !
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JodyAnthony

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Nintendo....Wii?
« Reply #2 on: 27 Apr 2006, 10:09 »

Quote from: Alegis
We have a Wiinner


But by their pronunciation, that is "we have a weiner"
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Alegis

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Nintendo....Wii?
« Reply #3 on: 27 Apr 2006, 10:20 »

Ha, I'd Wiish.

The lame Wii puns? They Wiill never stop.
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« Reply #4 on: 27 Apr 2006, 11:49 »

I was very much looking forward to getting a Revolution.  I'm not sure I can buy something named "wii."

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« Reply #5 on: 27 Apr 2006, 12:05 »

Are you kidding me?

I can't wait to go up to some poor retail clerk and say "Give me a WIIIIIIIIIIIII!"

God, I've been laughing all day over this. It's the best thing to happen so far this week.
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JodyAnthony

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« Reply #6 on: 27 Apr 2006, 12:08 »

i love the name, personally

I'm gonna get me a wii on day one.

at least when people refer to the controller, "Wiimote" sounds much better than "revmote"

YES I AM A NINTENDO NERD HOW DID YOU KNOW
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« Reply #7 on: 27 Apr 2006, 12:12 »

I don't think it's all that big of a deal. It's just a name, people. All of the internet is clamoring over this shit. Shakespeare had a thing or two to say on this subject. (but I'm pretty sure someone said it before him, he just made it pretty)
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JJMitchell

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« Reply #8 on: 27 Apr 2006, 14:46 »

Judging by the amount of shit I've heard about this ... maybe that is why Nintendo decided to rename it.  Any buzz is good buzz right?

I won't be buying on anyway.
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Storm Rider

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« Reply #9 on: 27 Apr 2006, 15:04 »

Why don't they just keep it the Revolution? I don't see anything wrong with that name.

But somebody chosing one system over another based on the name is retarded. And people just love to give Nintendo shit about whatever decision they make anymore. Shut the hell up already.
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« Reply #10 on: 27 Apr 2006, 20:08 »

I hate the name.  Think it's basically been thought up in a Japanese marking thinktank by people unaware that "wee" is a slang word for urine.  Or at least that's the only sane explanation I can come up with.

If they go forward with this name the Revolution will tank in the english-speaking world.  I don't see any other outcome.  A complete and utter flop.  This is like releasing a car with a name like "Toyota Craap" and trying to justify it by saying that you've made the a's look like happy faces.

You can say "oh I don't see what the fuss is, I like it", but the majority of opinions I'm seeing are negative.  I was definitely going to buy the Revolution, but now I'm reconsidering.  It's not just that the name reminds me of "wee", but also kind of symbolic.  I want them to know that they made a bad choice.
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« Reply #11 on: 27 Apr 2006, 20:25 »

Quote from: Storm Rider
Why don't they just keep it the Revolution? I don't see anything wrong with that name.

But somebody chosing one system over another based on the name is retarded. And people just love to give Nintendo shit about whatever decision they make anymore. Shut the hell up already.


Serious gamers will get the system anyhow, it's true.  But Nintendo's been going on and on about bringing new people into the fold, those who were either very casual gamers previously, or didn't play them at all.  And those are exactly the kind of uninformed people who would pass over this system because of the stupid name.  I'm not saying it'll have a major impact, but I am certain it'll cost them a few sales.
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #12 on: 27 Apr 2006, 21:35 »

if the name changes whether or not youre getting the console, or even makes you second guess it then you were probably getting it for the wrong reason

why dont you get a playstation 3.
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« Reply #13 on: 27 Apr 2006, 21:47 »

The name change wil not affect hardcore Nintendo fans from buying the console, but Nintendo are making it difficult for themselves when it comes to winning over casual gamers.

If you knew nothing about games but just wanted a new console would you buy an Xbox 360, a Playstation 3 or a console named after urine?

Alegis

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« Reply #14 on: 27 Apr 2006, 22:54 »

A nice article, worth a read for those who hate the name;

http://blog.wired.com/games/index.blog?entry_id=1467976
"In defense of Wii"


"I'm not in love with Wii -- but Wii works."
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #15 on: 27 Apr 2006, 23:19 »

That was a damned good read and analysis of Nintendo's strategy.

Over all the furor about the name, I never even considered the most striking part:

It's not called the Nintendo Wii.

Every other Nintendo produce ever made has been the "Nintendo Entertainment System," the "Nintendo 64," the "Nintendo GameCube"...

This is just...Wii.

That just blew my freaking mind.
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« Reply #16 on: 28 Apr 2006, 02:40 »

Quote from: will: wanton sex god
why dont you get a playstation 3.


Because the ps3 looks to be utter shit.

I was going to wait until the prices came down & get a 360, and depending on the price of the Revolution get one either before or after the 360.  The controller didn't catch me at first, but then I started to think about how it could be used & I warmed to it.

I could take a really shithouse name if it wasn't so obviously a bad choice.  Like, if they have come up with some kind of weird-ass name.  People are throwing out "Dreamcast" and "Playstation" and "XBox" as "bad names" also.  It's not that it's a "bad name".  The issue is that it is obvious to pretty much everyone who speaks english that calling your system after a slang term for urine is a really stupid idea.

I will not warm to "Wii".  It will be something that I'll have to endure if I buy the system.  Every time I look at the system I'll be reminded that it was named by a bunch of dudes who either didn't speak english & didn't care about what the name meant in my section of the market's language, or that they were fucking idiots.

I'm pretty sure I don't want to buy something from someone either that arrogant or that stupid.
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« Reply #17 on: 28 Apr 2006, 03:18 »

Quote from: Storm Rider
Why don't they just keep it the Revolution?



1. because they're competing against a world of sexy named electronic gaming. PCs, MACs, Xbox360s, PS3s, they had to some up with something they thought was sexual which brings me to

2. they're japanese, and they thought Wii would be a good name for a many-penis'd tentacle beast that will dump load after load of pixely semen into their gaping eyesockets. the japs are into that kinda shit, I dunno, I kinda blame the post WWII US occupation.
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« Reply #18 on: 28 Apr 2006, 05:29 »

Quote from: est
Quote from: will: wanton sex god
why dont you get a playstation 3.


Because the ps3 looks to be utter shit.


Speaking as a student of games development, that's horseshit right there. Of the three "next-gen" consoles, the PS3, to me, is by far and away the most impressive, and likely to be the biggest success and the most entertaining of the three. It's also the only one I'm seriously considering buying. I won't go into the details of that argument, though, as this is not the time or place.

Anyway, the Wii (as we are apparently calling it nowadays) - I don't much mind the name change. It hasn't affected the odds of my buying the console (tiny, as I can't afford it, prefer PC gaming, and am not a huge fan of nintendo games anyway). Sure, I can think of dozens of potential other names that I Would have gone with, but I'm not a Japanese marketing director, building a console for a market where the majority of players are still Japanese.

The name's a little cute for my tastes, and maybe a little gimmicky, but I wouldn't say it ruins the console - it's still the same system under the hood. If you don't like the name, print out a sticker that says "Revolution" and attach it over the word "Wii", problem solved.

In other words: don't judge a book by its cover. The Wii remains the second most impressive console on the upcoming market (in my opinion) and simply having a daft name isn't a good reason for not buying it.
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« Reply #19 on: 28 Apr 2006, 07:18 »

Ok sorry, allow me to elaborate quickly on my PS3 stance: the processor(s) is/are "technically superior" (though http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html">debated), but the graphics unit is not.  Devs are already http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/sony-insider-deleted-for-ps3-comments-148088.php">complaining about the http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2005/05/xbox_360_v_ps3.shtml">relative difficulty developing games on it, and I've seen some specs recently saying that the 360 uses less system resources to run its OS than the PS3 does.  I've also seen a couple of quotes from industry sources saying that Blu-Ray is probably gonna tank just like basically every other Sony proprietary format, so they are delaying for no reason.

Meanwhile Nihilist has been telling me that Sony are already in pretty dire straits at the moment financially, and what with recent reports stating that Sony will be taking a bath to the tune of $USD 900 million on the PS3 launch I really wouldn't want to be a Sony shareholder at the moment.

Also, Sony are fucking cunts and I won't be giving them my money.

Better?  :)

I'm not even saying I'm definitely going to be getting a 360.  I'm just saying that at the moment the PS3 seems very unappealling to me.

All that said, I would love for Sony to prove me wrong (well, and stop being cunts, I guess).  I'd love for the PS3 to be very very good, because see, I have a large catalogue of PS2 games just ready and waiting for a sexy system to run them on in order to see if the graphics look better :)
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #20 on: 28 Apr 2006, 10:21 »

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/#1093

tim buckley wrote a pretty decent newspost that summarizes my opinion on the name.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #21 on: 28 Apr 2006, 10:27 »

The Wii is still the only console I'm not instantly bored in. The PS3 looks like an overdeveloped, overhyped mess. The XB360 still only has a couple games worth playing and those games are better on PC.

I want to Wii. I don't give a shit about the name. At all.

I want to feel like I'm not playing the same old piece of crap reguritation that this last generation of games has been. All innovation and creativity came from a handful of obscure developers and it's depressing. Nintendo's trying to force all developers to do something new.

About time.
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JodyAnthony

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Nintendo....Wii?
« Reply #22 on: 28 Apr 2006, 11:09 »

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Alegis

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« Reply #23 on: 28 Apr 2006, 11:25 »

Quote from: JodyAnthony
www.jodylovesnintendo.com

Fanboy :p

Quote
They have had more advertising for free in the past 24 hours than Microsoft paid for with the XBox 360 in weeks. The old adage of “There is no such thing as bad publicity” really is true.


Agree there. In the end I like the name, and they had A LOT of advertising even before E3. Everyone knows about it know, and you're totally right there.
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Storm Rider

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« Reply #24 on: 28 Apr 2006, 23:09 »

Quote from: will: wanton sex god
http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/#1093

tim buckley wrote a pretty decent newspost that summarizes my opinion on the name.


I was just going to quote that myself. I really think Tim hit the nail on the head there. Stupid, maybe, but those kinds names of exist all over the place and they shouldn't reflect on the product itself. Not to mention it was a very shrewd way of getting a lot of hype out.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #25 on: 28 Apr 2006, 23:51 »

Did you know that the latest issue of PSM just came out and confirmed a $400 price tag on the PS3 with standard 60 GB HD and that the backwards compatibility will up the resolution of PS1 & PS2 games to 1080i?

Or were you still thinking about Wii?

Nintendo: Thinking ahead. With their Wii.
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« Reply #26 on: 29 Apr 2006, 01:08 »

MOAR LIKE NINJAENDO ANUS MIRITE?
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« Reply #27 on: 29 Apr 2006, 06:21 »

Quote from: will: wanton sex god
tim buckley...


I went and read the article, and I disagree.  Everyone who uses the "what about Google? what about Virgin?" shit is just parroting back what Nintendo themselves are saying about the name.

A "Google" isn't a disgusting bodily excretion.  Neither is a "Virgin".  I'm standing by my decision that this is a shithouse name, and no amount of bullshit spin is going to sway me.

Thing is though, there's still some time until the thing actually launches, so let's see what happens between now & then.  For all I know they could pop up at E3 and tell everyone it was a big joke or something.  (crosses fingers)

Quote from: Ozymandias
... $400 price tag on the PS3 with standard 60 GB HD and that the backwards compatibility will up the resolution of PS1 & PS2 games to 1080i


To be honest with you this & a new God of War are about the only things making me think about the PS3 at the moment.  

Fucking hell, who am I kidding.  I bet I'll end up buying all three of these fucking machines anyway (whether the name stays as "Wii" or not), because I am a gaming whore.
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #28 on: 29 Apr 2006, 08:13 »

estzors.  i don't mean this in a dickey way...id ont think itll come across that way but yah.

when i quoted the article (though i didnt mention it, all i did was basically post the link) i was agreeing most with the fact that the name shouldn't matter as much as people are making it.  I mean when you type in yahoo or google are youy really thinking about their name?

frankly i think there a re a lot of things that don't matter about consoles.
while i'd PREFER a cool name, or an asthetically pleasing console, what it boils down to is if i'm having fun.  I didn't NOT buy an xbox because it was generation XXX whoring, or big as fuck, but because the games didnt appeal to me.  I mean i dont ever even look at my console or consider it's name unless i look right at the name printed on the console itself as im sticking a game in.

i mean if the name thing really matters that much to you then alright, i guess, i'm just not seein eye to eye i guess.



i guess i should also point out that one raeson the way a console looks to me is that i don't have a super cool nice looking entertainment console...not to accuse any of you (would that even be a bad thing) but the way it looks just doesnt matter.

i played nintendo freaking 64.


and i guess this post wasnt really directed to you personally

ive typed way too fucking much.
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« Reply #29 on: 29 Apr 2006, 11:52 »

Quote from: est

To be honest with you this & a new God of War are about the only things making me think about the PS3 at the moment.  


In a wonderfully stupid move that makes me happy: God of War 2 is on the PS2, not the PS3. I don't have to buy a PS3! Yay me!
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« Reply #30 on: 29 Apr 2006, 16:41 »

I really like the name. It's creative, something that the other systems are lacking.
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« Reply #31 on: 29 Apr 2006, 17:29 »

Quote from: est
Ok sorry, allow me to elaborate quickly on my PS3 stance: the processor(s) is/are "technically superior" (though http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html">debated), but the graphics unit is not.  Devs are already http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/sony-insider-deleted-for-ps3-comments-148088.php">complaining about the http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2005/05/xbox_360_v_ps3.shtml">relative difficulty developing games on it, and I've seen some specs recently saying that the 360 uses less system resources to run its OS than the PS3 does.  I've also seen a couple of quotes from industry sources saying that Blu-Ray is probably gonna tank just like basically every other Sony proprietary format, so they are delaying for no reason.


The approach they're taking, as I understand it, is that they're doing away with dedicated subsystems (such as actual graphics cards) and doing the whole thing, top to bottom, with pure number crunching. Which is actually a very old skool way of running your games. The difference is, the theoretical processing power of these things is on a par with a Kray supercomputer (albeit, a crappy low-end 1980s one).

Wether or not it works properly remains to be seen, but given how apparently sexy UT2007 is going to look on it, I'm confident it should provide results.

The advantage to that system - well, the BIG advantage - is future compatability. As any PC gamer will tell you, the hard part is keeping up with the march of graphics technology. Every few months, somebody begins production on a game that makes use of some new gizmo that was previously impossible or unthought-of, and the hardware companies are constantly producing new graphics cards capable of handling those gizmos.  Over time, you need to replace the graphics card, or, with consoles, the entire system. If the PS3 pans out as I'm hoping it will, it'll effectively eliminate the need for games developers to hold back on making use of the latest technology and suchlike by doing away with the need for sub-system support, and instead processing all the data involved the old-fashioned way. It's harder work, but the end result is that you (theoretically) wind up with a console capable of doing anything and everything that the developers care to throw at it, for quite a long time.

In theory, at least. I have to agree with you that in terms of their hardware at least, Sony have a history of failing to live up to expectations. Of the "next-gen" consoles, the PS3 is the one I'll be getting, but that's mostly because I own a load of PS2 games already, and find that the games released for the Playstation are the ones that appeal most to me. Wether or not the console is any good, Sony has a history of scoring all the good titles for their machines.

I guess we'll just wait and see.
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« Reply #32 on: 29 Apr 2006, 19:20 »

They should have just called it the Nintendo Wang.  It would have been better because it's so up-front that it would be difficult to make clever puns and jokes with it and actually look edgy.  Whereas "Wii" is just absolutely begging to be mocked.

Or, as Penny Arcade so eloquently mocked it, why not call it the Nintendo Vagina?  I'd totally go for it.  "Guys, I bought a Vagina!  It's up in my room right now!  Let's go play some Super Bang Brothers."

[/possibly somewhat juvenile]
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« Reply #33 on: 29 Apr 2006, 20:06 »

Quote from: Switchblade
... processing all the data involved the old-fashioned way. It's harder work ...


I do take your point and I hope that it does work for them, but from the dev reports I've been seeing developers don't like it.  If you were the head of a dev team/company which would you prefer to develop on, a system that is easy to make a game for quickly & looks good, or a machine that needs to be done "the old fashioned way" and is therefore more expensive in man-hours and cash to complete?  If you look at it that way they are behind the ball before you even start comparing the system specs/units shipped, etc :(
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« Reply #34 on: 29 Apr 2006, 23:04 »

Quote from: Switchblade
The approach they're taking, as I understand it, is that they're doing away with dedicated subsystems (such as actual graphics cards) and doing the whole thing, top to bottom, with pure number crunching. Which is actually a very old skool way of running your games. The difference is, the theoretical processing power of these things is on a par with a Kray supercomputer (albeit, a crappy low-end 1980s one).


You're incorrect. If you really want an explanation, I cooked up some diagrams and such a while back when I was researching it, and have some great links, but it gets pretty hairy.

Quick summary: The PS3 still has a graphics card, and it's still a fairly traditional one, but the processor takes the basic approach of taking off the last 10 years of design to make it smaller, and then hitting copy-paste 7 times. If your code vectorizes *and* multithreads well, it'll fly. If it doesn't... figure on getting something like what my laptop can do (1GHz G4). The launch titles are always somewhat rushed, so they'll likely be doing something like: PPE (the non-wacky core, 98% identical to an Xbox360 core) runs the game, SPE 1 (wacky vector core 1) decodes video, SPE 2 decodes audio, SPEs 3-7 sit idle most of the time. The real question of the PS3's power is whether game developers will be able to take anywhere close to full advantage of the SPEs before the PS3 is totally obsolete.

<pedant>Also it's Cray not Kray </pedant>
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« Reply #35 on: 30 Apr 2006, 00:44 »

Last night my roommate and I were discussing this on the ride back from a friends house.

We literally went, "Wii, Wii, Wii all the way home."

I liked the name Revolution, it made sense. The new controller forces game developers to tackle new problems and experiment. To start a gaming revolution. The old name was powerful and symbolic. Even with the chintzy poem Wii is still a made up word that makes me have to tinkle. It has no power.
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« Reply #36 on: 30 Apr 2006, 06:42 »

i just object to the fact that wii is going to create a million lame jokes that creates a meme more irritating than chuck norris jokes.
more irritating because i like nintendo.
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« Reply #37 on: 30 Apr 2006, 07:53 »

Quote from: est
I do take your point and I hope that it does work for them, but from the dev reports I've been seeing developers don't like it.  If you were the head of a dev team/company which would you prefer to develop on, a system that is easy to make a game for quickly & looks good, or a machine that needs to be done "the old fashioned way" and is therefore more expensive in man-hours and cash to complete?  If you look at it that way they are behind the ball before you even start comparing the system specs/units shipped, etc :(


Just so you're aware, I am actually on a games development and design course at uni, so I think my whole perspective on the PS3 is coloured by the possibility of my ending up making games for it some day.

The thing you have to understand is that when I say it's "harder work", I mean the machine itself has to work harder. The games developers, according to my logic, will either not notice a change, or else will actually have LESS work and difficulty to contend with.

Developers fall into two categories: programmers, and designers

programmers are the hard code guys. They're the ones who wind up writing all the C++ code on which a game engine runs. Not just that, they're responsible for creating the tools that the designers (mappers, skinners, animators, modellers, etc) use to turn all that code into a game.

For the designers, there is no visible change. You're still using an SDK provided by the programmers. You move objects and entities around, put them together, and come out with your finished product. It's not your job to understand how the machine code works, it's your job to use the tools you're given to produce a finished, artistic product.

Now, I'm no programmer, but I rather imagine that from a coding perspective, it's easier to tell the system to run everything off the CPU, rather than having to program in the subroutines that tell the machine where to send each individual process. Let's say you have a game that uses bump mapping, HDR lighting, a Havok-based physics system and 64-bit vertex shaders (alongside the hundreds of other processes). As things stand, a fair old chunk of the processing done by the CPU is actually responding to the code that tells it where to send each of those processes. the HDR is sent off to one section of the graphics card, the vertex shading to another, the bump mapping to a third, and the physics goes off to physics processing. usually, that's handled by the CPU, but nVidia are releasing joing phyics/graphics cards now.

I'm no expert, but to me it sounds easier to run everything on central processing power, rather than having the CPU shuffle and sort each of those processes off to its designated subsection of the system first, THEN process it, then send it back to final processing to be displayed. The system has to do far more, in terms of calculations per second, but from a coding perspective, I don't think it would be more difficult to do things that way - precisely the opposite. It'd be simpler, faster, easier and cheaper, because you drastically cut down the number of code lines the programmers have to write - which leaves them with more time to include the SDK features that the designers are asking for.

As far as I can see, it's a win-win situation.

Quote from: Catfish_Man
You're incorrect. If you really want an explanation, I cooked up some diagrams and such a while back when I was researching it, and have some great links, but it gets pretty hairy.

Quick summary: The PS3 still has a graphics card, and it's still a fairly traditional one, but the processor takes the basic approach of taking off the last 10 years of design to make it smaller, and then hitting copy-paste 7 times. If your code vectorizes *and* multithreads well, it'll fly. If it doesn't... figure on getting something like what my laptop can do (1GHz G4). The launch titles are always somewhat rushed, so they'll likely be doing something like: PPE (the non-wacky core, 98% identical to an Xbox360 core) runs the game, SPE 1 (wacky vector core 1) decodes video, SPE 2 decodes audio, SPEs 3-7 sit idle most of the time. The real question of the PS3's power is whether game developers will be able to take anywhere close to full advantage of the SPEs before the PS3 is totally obsolete.


To me, this still implies less work spent shuffling processes about and more time spent on the core, which to me sounds like easier programming.

Feel free to correct me if I'm very very wrong, however.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #38 on: 30 Apr 2006, 12:22 »

Developers were pretty disappointed with the PS2's weird architecture. I terms of what you can do with the PS2, the graphics SHOULD out class the XBox and Gamecube. In terms of what developers were actually willing to do with it, they clearly don't. The only games that reach that kind of quality are SCEA games (God of War, Shadow of the Colossus). No one else wanted to put the time and effort into even trying.

According to many devs(Square was among the most vocal), the PS2 was enough of a hassle that they would've preferred to develop for someone else if it weren't for the PS2's sales numbers.

I see Sony making the same mistake twice here and losing a lot of third party support. Most American companies have already jumped ship to MS. If it weren't for the fact that Japan abhors the XBox, I imagine most Japanese ones would have to.
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« Reply #39 on: 30 Apr 2006, 13:36 »

Quote from: Switchblade
Now, I'm no programmer, but I rather imagine that from a coding perspective, it's easier to tell the system to run everything off the CPU, rather than having to program in the subroutines that tell the machine where to send each individual process.


You'd be right. This is exactly why the PS3 is hard, though. Unlike most CPUs, the 8 elements of the CELL require explicit management by the programmer*. Kinda like having 7 mini-GPUs** in addition to the main GPU and the CPU. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of autoparallelizing compiler advances come out of research done for the PS3. :)

*or the author of the tools you're using. I expect licensing game engines/libraries will be very common on the PS3. The Havoc folks, or whoever do the heavy lifting to move library functions onto the SPEs, and everyone who uses their system gets the benefit "for free".

**the SPEs are more flexible than a GPU, but similar in principle in many ways.
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« Reply #40 on: 30 Apr 2006, 20:07 »

At least one site believes Wii is a hoax, with good reason

I had this thought the day it came out:

Take Wii.

Turn it upside down: M!!

You have the next Mario game.
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« Reply #41 on: 30 Apr 2006, 21:03 »

Quote from: JodyAnthony
i love the name, personally

I'm gonna get me a wii on day one.

at least when people refer to the controller, "Wiimote" sounds much better than "revmote"

YES I AM A NINTENDO NERD HOW DID YOU KNOW


Ok I didnt get past this post, so I dont really care if this topic has derailed into whiney little camps.  But meh wii is a dumb name, but I can live with it.

But when I get a wii, the first thing I am going to do is set the controller down  on one side of the room, walk to the other, sit down, and ask whoever is sitting between me and the controller to pass the wiimote.  I will be stuttering my steps and biting back the giggles while I am walking across the room, and be downright cackling when I get to say wiimote.

I just cant wait.
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Switchblade

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« Reply #42 on: 01 May 2006, 14:16 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
Developers were pretty disappointed with the PS2's weird architecture. I terms of what you can do with the PS2, the graphics SHOULD out class the XBox and Gamecube. In terms of what developers were actually willing to do with it, they clearly don't. The only games that reach that kind of quality are SCEA games (God of War, Shadow of the Colossus). No one else wanted to put the time and effort into even trying.


Have you seen the screenshots for "Black" at all?

http://uk.media.ps2.ign.com/media/668/668817/img_3381044.html
http://uk.media.ps2.ign.com/media/668/668817/img_3356546.html
http://uk.media.ps2.ign.com/media/668/668817/img_3381048.html
http://uk.media.ps2.ign.com/media/668/668817/img_3356542.html
http://uk.media.ps2.ign.com/media/668/668817/img_3356534.html

As you say, The PS2 is a tecnically fantastic system. Sony does have a history of creating awkward architecture that takes a lot of getting used to. The results, however, when the system is used properly, are nothing short of VERY impressive.

It strikes me as being a shame that the PS2 is really only starting to see optimal use in the last few months before its successor comes out.

This is why I have great hopes for the PS3. Awkward though it may prove to be to develop for, I'm 90% certain that on the day that somebody does create a game that makes use of its abilities, it will be mind-blowing.

All of this really goes to show that games developers are lasy office slaves like anybody else. The reason these systems attract criticism is that they're difficult to create games for, not because they're bad. in fact, the PS2 was far and away the best of the systems on the market, in my opinion, and it was only the unwillingness of developers to properly tackle it that kept it locked in the mob. It's probably a sad fact that the PS3 is going to be similar - technically superior, but dragged down by being intractible for the developers to work with.

Sony's big mistake, then, is that they're far too focused on producing a mechanical beast without making it easy for the people who have to actually work with it to use.

Quote
You'd be right. This is exactly why the PS3 is hard, though. Unlike most CPUs, the 8 elements of the CELL require explicit management by the programmer*. Kinda like having 7 mini-GPUs** in addition to the main GPU and the CPU. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of autoparallelizing compiler advances come out of research done for the PS3.


I see your point. They're replacing shuffling to subsystems with shuffling to multiple processors. Like you say, hopefully time and research will turn up ways to streamline the process.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #43 on: 01 May 2006, 14:29 »

Quote from: Switchblade

This is why I have great hopes for the PS3. Awkward though it may prove to be to develop for, I'm 90% certain that on the day that somebody does create a game that makes use of its abilities, it will be mind-blowing.

All of this really goes to show that games developers are lasy office slaves like anybody else. The reason these systems attract criticism is that they're difficult to create games for, not because they're bad. in fact, the PS2 was far and away the best of the systems on the market, in my opinion, and it was only the unwillingness of developers to properly tackle it that kept it locked in the mob. It's probably a sad fact that the PS3 is going to be similar - technically superior, but dragged down by being intractible for the developers to work with.

Sony's big mistake, then, is that they're far too focused on producing a mechanical beast without making it easy for the people who have to actually work with it to use.


My point exactly. Yes, it can produce some very impressive visuals. Unfortunately, it produced them 3 years behind the XBox (Splinter Cell) and a year behind the GameCube (RE4), the most technically inferior machine of the bunch. Whoopdy-doo.

You can blame the developers all you want for being lazy, but they're doing the same thing anyone else would've done. If the PS3's sales numbers don't match and exceed the 360 and Rev's very quickly, you can expect it to start floundering fast, similar to the N64 once developers realized it wasn't going to be as flexible to use as the PS1.
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« Reply #44 on: 01 May 2006, 14:43 »

I don't think it's a case of being inflexible as being intractible. There's probably an ungodly amount of power in the PS3, just that the difficulty involved in unlocking it will probably drive the big companies away as they realise that developing a game for it will take longer and involve more expense.

Which is a crying shame, and a bit of a problem, because if it were easier to code for, Sony would wipe the floor with all the other companies by putting out a system with games leagues in advance of the competition. Here's hoping they realise that and streamline the development process prior to release. (wonder what odds I'd get on that?).
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« Reply #45 on: 01 May 2006, 15:35 »

Slim to none.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #46 on: 01 May 2006, 16:37 »

Apparently, I'm already a prophet. Culdcept, a pretty popular Japanese card game (and a very, very Japanese one at that), has its next installment coming out on the 360. The PS2 version was pretty freaking cool, but the fact that the next one is coming out on the Japanese's most hated system number one is pretty weird and might be a sign of things to come.
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Switchblade

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« Reply #47 on: 01 May 2006, 17:44 »

If you're a prophet, where's your beard, stick, robes and burning plant?
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« Reply #48 on: 01 May 2006, 18:29 »

I don't care what they call it. "Wii" is retarded, I'm still calling it a revoloution. I'll call it a revoloution when I buy one, and I'll call it a revoloution when I get rid of it(if I do).
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« Reply #49 on: 02 May 2006, 01:29 »

yeah, just  print out a sticker or something.
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