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[CookedHaggis]

Reading this blog over at the grauniad got me thinking about The Wire.  Again.  Currently I'm working my way through series three, where the dealers and police get cut with politicians.  It's really, really good.  American TV (in contrast, I think, to most other media) does seem to be going through something of a renaissance (The Sopranos, Deadwood, Weeds, Battlestar Galactica, House to name but a few) and The Wire is the pinnacle of this. 

It's a shame the UK can't produce anything to touch it, but I suppose that lower budget and especially different broadcast practices (20 episode seasons really come in to their own when dealing with epic, complex, interweaving artistry) don't help.  Still, for all the hype around the success of The Office (and Ricky Gervais in general) UK television has been (with the notable exception of the fantastic The Thick of It), at best, mediocre over the last year or so.  Great shows like Shameless or even (deviating from fiction) Have I Got News For You seem to have lost their touch, much hyped dramas such as Jeykll are crap and seemingly the only contemporary shows to consistently pull in the plaudits has been Doctor Who (can be fun, but despite the praise seems very uneven) and Life on Mars (which I haven't seen).  What happened to great UK comedy programmes or even things like the Beeb's adaptation of Pride & Prejudice? Are there any "must watch" UK TV show right now?

So, yeah, American TV is amazing right now, British TV isn't.  What gives?

[Inlander]

Hooray! I've been telling people here to watch the Wire for ages. They just don't listen. Just wait 'til you get to season 4 - holy shit! I've watched it once by downloading it (sorry David Simon, I know you hate that, but I'm not prepared to wait over a year for it to screen in Australia and I really truly am hanging out to buy it the instant it comes out on D.V.D.) and it's so powerful and moving that I haven't been able to steel myself to watch it a second time yet, even though it's so fucking good. What's your favourite season? Mine's season 2, though after I've watched 4 a few more times they'll probably be neck-and-neck.

[Inlander]

Get the D.V.D.s. You won't regret it.

[tomselleck69]

The Wire is indeed the greatest thing on television.

But as for British TV being lousy, I say unto you: what about Peep Show?

[öde]

Life On Mars, from what I've seen of it, is pretty awesome.

And Never Mind The Buzzcocks, tomselleck69.

[CookedHaggis]

The Wire is indeed the greatest thing on television.

But as for British TV being lousy, I say unto you: what about Peep Show?

Ok, I forgot Peep Show, my bad.  Still, series three wasn't as good as one and two.  I mean, the whole dead dog thing was indeed eye-scrunchingly funny and the marriage of embarrasment was a nice twist on the "boy lust after girl, boy eventunally gets girl, boy and girl live happily if comically ever after" formula of most comedies, but they do seem to be slipping away from the original painful plausibility to a more surreal, even "wacky" slant.  The internal monologues are always gold though.

And Buzzcocks...yeah, it's good and I like Simon Amstell, but it's hardly got the sharp satirical edge that Have I Got News... used to have.  It is, well, "merely" funny, rather than something truly exceptional - there's no real bite or substance behind the jokes.

So, we have The Thick of It and Peep Show.  It's hardly a lengthy list though, is it?


Inlander: I think my favourite season so far is the third one.  I'm loving the sheer scope it encompasses in taking in the political dimension alongside the original police and the streets, and Stringer Bell, Omar and Bubbles have got to be some of the best characters on TV (even, to go all hyperbolic, in fiction).  I'm still not sure if I liked season two more than one...I was kind of thrown that Jimmy basically stayed on the boats the entire time (loved that they had the balls to do that though) and i never quite found the dock arc as enthralling as the drugs trade (I appreciate Simon's skill in continually changing things up and bringing in new themes and elements, but I think I just find the questions and issues raised in the projects more compelling than the unions).  Having said that, the last few episodes of the season were phenomenal, with some of the best direction of any TV show I've ever seen (absolutely blown away by the sequence with Frank and Nick talking in front of the power station..very Scorsese).

And you should watch The Wire tommy, because the world is divided into two kinds of people: those who love The Wire and complete idiots.

[The Cheesinator]

but...but...Doctor Who is kinda good. That's a British show. We get it in here in Canada, and I like watching it when I can. Oh and that 5 part miniseries about gates going to prehistoric places was interesting. So interesting that I seem to have unfortunately forgotten it's name.

I'm really unsure of my grammar in that last sentence.

[Noct]

There does seem to have been in increase in quality US shows as of late, but I've never given this "Wire" a try... perhaps I will at some point.  It's too bad our cable news networks are absolute garbage though. 

Also, someone tell NBC to bring back Studio 60.  Pleeeaaaase.

[thehoopiestfrood]

Cape Wrath was pretty damn good!

[wm_star]

It is my opinion that The Wire is the best television show that has ever been on the air ever.  Period.  It's brilliantly acted, written and directed.  My husband and I named our dog McNulty, and my dad (entirely by coincidence because my parents smile and nod when you tell them to watch something and then don't do it) calls him McNutty.  I'm partial to the 1st and 4th seasons (though truly, I love them all).  The 1st season was just so, so, so fabulous at sucking you into the story and establishing the characters and getting you excited.  It was the original, the beginning of the series, and it rocked so hard that even with the teeniest tiniest of fan bases, HBO gave it another season.  And the 4th - well, I'm a reformed middle school teacher, so I'm kind of partial to the education story line.  Randy is my very favorite new character from last season   And the 2nd season, with the Russians, ruled!  The guy who played Sergei, Chris Ashworth?  I went to high school with him - it's kind of cool to watch as his career develops.  And then the 3rd season, with everyone converging on Stringer, especially Omar (BEST. CHARACTER. EVER.) and Brother Mouzone...  Plus I love Bunny Colvin so much as a character, and the Hamsterdam story was awesome; and we got to see a lot of Carcetti, the sniveling bastard...

Who am I kidding?  I adore this show, top to tail, and I cannot wait for the next season to start.......

[tommydski]

I finally watched The Wire. The first season is just incredible. I recommend it to absolutely everyone.

The rest of the seasons are also fine but I think the very first one is incredibly special.

[sean]

Man I really really really need to get HBO.

[Inlander]

Welcome to the club, tommy!

[Hairy Joe Bob]

What a fucking show. What. A. Fucking. Show.

Seriously, it is the best tv show I'v ever watched. Forget your Sopranos, The Wire surpasses it in just about every department.

I actually want to be McNulty. The guy's a fucking asshole but he's the coolest motherfucking asshole on the planet.

[KvP]

I actually like Homicide better (same creators and whatnot) but that's mostly just due to Andre Braugher. The Wire is really an achievement, though. Far superior to the Sopranos.

[tommydski]

I actually want to be McNulty. The guy's a fucking asshole but he's the coolest motherfucking asshole on the planet.

I actually found him an annoying, destructive bastard. I think you're supposed to though. Fellow Britlander Dominic West does a reasonable job with the Irish/American accent I think but maybe yanks thought otherwise? The episode where he had to pretend to be British was pretty amusing. Of the Po-lice I liked Lester, Bunk, Landsman, Daniels and Pryzbyelewski the most. On the street, pretty much any scene with Stringer Bell, Omar or Bubbles was excellent.

I think I might re-watch Season One again just because it was so good. The scene where Bunk and McNulty dress a homicide crime scene with absolutely no dialogue aside from the repeated exclamation of 'Fuck' in different intonations is brilliant. You can watch it even if you haven't seen the Wire, there are no spoilers.

[benji]

I actually like Homicide better (same creators and whatnot) but that's mostly just due to Andre Braugher. The Wire is really an achievement, though. Far superior to the Sopranos.

I agree with everything in this statement. Except maybe the "far superior." The best moments on the Sopranos were as good as The Wire but The Wire was a little more consistently brilliant. I really need to get the Wire on DVD at some point.

[tomselleck69]

Fellow Britlander Dominic West does a reasonable job with the Irish/American accent I think but maybe yanks thought otherwise?

I thought he did alright. It was actually learning that he was English that made me attuned to the inconsistencies in his accent, not hearing the inconsistencies and wondering if he might not be American.

[Inlander]

The scene where Bunk and McNulty dress a homicide crime scene with absolutely no dialogue aside from the repeated exclamation of 'Fuck' in different intonations is brilliant.

There are masses of Baltimore cop/crime in-jokes in the Wire. The show's co-creator David Simon, who wrote the (true crime) book upon which Homicide was based, explains this scene thus:

The five-minute scene offers no explanation for itself beyond the physical activities of the detectives as they address the crime scene and the almost continuous use of the word fuck in all its possible permutations - an insider's homage to the great Terry McLarney, a veteran Baltimore murder police who once predicted that Baltimore cops, in their love of profanity, would one day achieve a new and viable language composed entirely of such.

It's worth reading Simon's book Homicide: a year on the killing streets. Apart from being a fascinating and entertaining read, there are many overlaps between it and Homicide, the series, and the Wire: for instance, the very first (pre-credits) scene of the first episode of the first season is pretty much word-for-word a real anecdote Simon overheard and recounts in the book. More fun facts: Sergeant Jay Landsmann was a real police officer - and in fact he plays Lt. Mello from season 3 onwards. There was a real police informant and addict in Baltimore named Bubbles. The deacon who appears as a minor character from season 3 onwards is played by Little Melvin Williams, who was in his time a drug king-pin in Baltimore and the target of a wiretap investigation on which the series' other creator, Ed Burns, worked when he was a cop, and which inspired much of the Wire.

Oh, and the morgue seasons in the first season were filmed in the actual Baltimore city morgue.

[Misereatur]

I have to agree with Harry on this.

I have spent about six months of my mandatory military service working with homicide, narcotics and underage crime detectives in my home district (which is one of the most crime-ridden districts in Israel). Take the obvious cultural differences aside, that show is pretty much one-to-one how it was.

[Inlander]

underage crime detectives

? ? ?

[Blue Kitty]

?    ?      ?

[Misereatur]

Add heroin, prostitution and pedophilia and you've pretty much covered it.

Also, our soundtrack were the mosques of Ramla. It has corners and everything.

[Nettle]

I have to say I disagree with you on the British TV not being so good lately thing. And I think the length of seasons is totally personal preference, I actually like them a lot shorter, than drawn out like the American ones always seem to be.

[dennis]

The Ed Burns who worked on the Wire is also a producer of the miniseries "Generation: Kill" about a recon company of Marines in Iraq War II. I recommend it for anyone who likes the Wire. It's not quite as accessible, but I think it's pretty good.

Also, you get to see Ziggy play a character similar to Ziggy but not as fucking dumb.

[KvP]

Indeed, Generation Kill is great. And I know some dudes in the service who swear up and down that it accurately depicts what it's like to be out there day-to-day (see: lots of sitting around) The AV Club is keeping up a blow-by-blow blog (Loblaw Lobs Law Bomb!) up on it.

[cgarci21]

You guys have successfully convinced me to watch The Wire. I won't say I haven't thought about it but I just haven't gotten around to it. Actually I think you may be right about britTV. The thing is I enjoyed things like Spaced and Black Books and Doctor Who. Only one of which is still on.

I did really enjoy Life on Mars though and Ashes to Ashes, although no where near as good, isn't awful either...I guess.

[the Goat]

See, I think the exact opposite. All the good shows on American TV are on HBO (Deadwood, The Wire, haven't seen [/i]Sopranos[/i]...too much of an investment). There is of course Mad Men and Battlestar Galactica (which I think is good, but exhausting to watch) on basic cable, and Pushing Daisies on network TV. But that's maybe 8 shows. It seems you forget that American TV has over 400 Channels, easy. And while I enjoy me some trashy TV ( Wife Swap the various house flipping shows on TDC, TLC et al.) I often long for TV that doesn't assume I'm retarded or on a sugar high. I like watching Ross Kemp's show on gangs, and all the BBC documentary series, and, to be completely honest, I really like watching Top Gear. I'm not a car person, but it's so entertaining.
y I liked the first season of Life on Mars, but the show went into a steep nosedive in the second season and had one of the most disappointing finales I can remember seeing. And I disagree with the person who said Peep Show hasn't been as good lately. I think the first three seasons are, overall spectacular, and while the later ones can be hit or miss, when they hit, they hit motherfucking HARD. Plus, repeat viewings of the episodes oftentimes end up being funnier than they were the first time around, which is rare in a lot of comdies.

[Gridgm]

however i don't reside in america so we onyl get the half decent shows imported...and then for somereason screened at ungodly hours

i have jsut bought my third season of the wire and am now losing sleep because of it

[the Goat]

Also, The Wire and Deadwood struggled every single year of their existance for funding because ratings were so low. Stands to reason, of course, that the best TV shows are barely appreciated in their time. Meanwhile, people can't get enough of dancing with the fucking stars.

[TheFuriousWombat]

I just got into The Wire. A bit into season two, it kinda reminds me of what Law and Order would be like if Law and Order was seriously brilliant and full of awesome characters and really well written. Deadwood was also incredible. The day it was canceled was a tragic day for television.

[DanteShepherd]

When my wife and I were on our honeymoon, she had trouble sleeping and we ended up watching bad British TV in the wee hours of the morning.  Some shows were good and entertaining - Hotel Babylon and Cold Feet (although since all the titles were in Finnish, it was hard to figure out what they were called) - but some were, like you're saying, just awful.  One had hairdressers fighting ninjas in the streets.  If anyone could tell me what was going on there, I'd really be astounded.  It made no sense at all.

[the Goat]

Cold Feet does have very good writing. Of course, the only reason I know this is because my girlfriend has been obsessed with the show since it appeared on Bravo some years ago.

Also, I can't forget about Black Books, which, though sadly over, had a great three seasons. Also, Russell Brand's Ponderland is some of the best TV out there now, anywhere.

[TheFuriousWombat]

Not a whole lot on TV right now is good. Ever since the great HBO series ended (Sopranos, Deadwood, Six Feet Under, The Wire and even Rome) there just hasn't been much of anything worth watching. Lost is still pretty excellent and I have high hopes for the final two seasons, Generation Kill is apparently a rather good mini-series and that new vampire show on HBO sounds potentially cool. As far as I can tell, that's kind of it. Is there anything on right now that even approaches the excellence of those now defunct series?

[KvP]

Mad Men out on the AMC.

I also like the Shield, but it's sort of pulpy and at this point Vic Mackey has squeaked through so many incredibly difficult situations it's sort of becoming routine and I don't know how they're going to end the series right.

I don't get to watch much brit TV, but what I do get to watch are brit mystery / Inspector series. What I generally like to do is pick out a character who's brought in early in the story to help the Inspector in some way and say "that's the guy who done it!". I'm nine for eleven so far (never forget) Come on Inspector Lynley, don't be so thick. Or at least don't inhabit a world that's so obvious.

[TheFuriousWombat]

Oh right, I forgot about Dexter. It is pretty great from the few episodes I've seen. I'm not a huge fan of House but that's probably because I'm not a fan of medical shows in general. Mad Men looks good too. I guess I just feel like a golden age has come and gone.

[cgarci21]

I totally agree on the Inspector Lynley point above. If you like that you might try renting the Agatha Christie mystery stuff. Its good and pretty true to the books (which I love).

God save wttw. Which is what I watch that on.

[Tom]

Spooks is a pretty good British TV show, it's about a team of MI5 agents and is like the British equivalent of Alias without the craziness.

[KvP]

So I'm going through the first season again (that's as far as I got, only sporadically kept up with the series after that) but I still can't watch McNulty's scenes with his kids. But it's still great writing, I guess. He's so absorbed in the job that he doesn't see anything wrong with bringing an (admittedly harmless) junkie or a hardened stick-up man along with them during visits. Or using them as fucking surveillance. I think Tommy's right, he's a crazy asshole. But as Landsman said, that's what makes him good police.

And I'll just say again that anybody who really liked the first season of the Wire should check out Homicide if they haven't already.

[KvP]

So it's a month later, and I just watched the final episode of the series. I teared up there in a few places, especially the last Bubs scene. Perfect ending, almost literary in the way it ushers out major characters while establishing that minor characters will take their places, in very overt ways. McNutty lives!

Anyhow, enough of that. What was everyone's favorite scene from the Wire, would you say? I know you've got one. For me, there are two, both of which feature Bill Rawls, the hack Police Boss. The first is in season 1, after the undercover debacle, when Rawls takes McNulty aside and tells him that even though he fucking hates the guy, even he cannot blame McNulty for what happened. When I saw that I knew that the Wire was a show of a different caliber - up until that point (and hell, after that point) Rawls was painted as a shitty boss and a self-serving boob, but in that moment he was shown to have something approaching a conscience. The second scene was in season 3. A split-second reaction shot of Bill Rawls in a gay bar. My biggest laugh of the year.

[Inlander]

Geez man, do you have any idea what you're asking of us here? Damn!

I'm just about to go on a binge and watch the whole thing from episode 1 of season 1 to episode 10 of season 10 - as soon as I get my season 1 D.V.D.s back from my friend who's had them forever (I'm gonna make back-ups to lend out from now on). I'll have answers for you then.

Um, SPOILERS from here on, I guess.

For now, though, I can say categorically that the most haunting scene of all for me was from the last season, when Michael's made his break with Marlo's crew and he's dropping Dukie off before going underground, and Dukie's trying to reminisce with him, and says "You remember that time . . ." and then describes a scene from the beginning of season 4, and Michael can't remember it. Just that one little moment highlights the massive psychological trauma suffered by these kids drawn into the drug trade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2WyBRwoElM

[KvP]

Season 4 has a number of really good moments. The child actors they got are all really good.

The scene where Wee-Bey mans up and does the right thing for his son at the end of the season was really great. Randy's last scene with Carver was pretty wrenching.

Honestly, I take back what I said about Homicide being better earlier in the thread. Homicide, for being as daring as it was for network television, definitely had some pretty mediocre episodes and bad casting decisions, especially in the later seasons. I don't believe there's a single bum note in the entirety of The Wire's run. Even the weakest parts, like the season five newspaper storyline (which got a pretty heavy drubbing from the press - doth the lady protest too much?) had some great moments and bits of writing.

Man, this show is so good.

Given the field's so open with scenes, what was everybody's favorite supporting character? I don't mean a secondary character like Omar or Bubs, who aren't stars of the show but are nonetheless fairly prominent. I mean characters who are pretty well defined despite not having any scenes really being about them specifically. My favorite would probably be Slim Charles, the right hand man of Avon Barksdale in the third season, and Prop Joe in the fourth and fifth seasons. It's shown that he's as cold of a murderer as any of the gangsters in the show, but he's nonetheless shown to be such a consummate professional that you have to root for him. When a hit job gets botched in the third season he doesn't hesitate at all to fess up to his (perceived) mistake despite what consequences could follow from it. He's unfailingly loyal, lacking in hubris and foolish ambition, and he's not afraid of anybody, but it's clear he's not a sociopath like Chris Partlow, who is alike him in many ways. The AV Club described him as a "samurai", and I think that's pretty apt. His last scene had me cheering.

Anybody? Snoop? Blind Butchie and his associates? Brother Mouzone? Clay Davis?

Come on, sheeeeeeeeeeeit, I want to talk about this show with people. I came to the party late.

[Inlander]

I think my favourite "supporting character" is Chris. He's just so outside the box compared to all the other gangsters - the way he dresses, the way he's so softly spoken. Sometimes I catch myself thinking of him as "gentle", but then I remember what a cold-blooded killer he is. But then, even when he's killing someone - except for that one notable occasion - he tries to make it as calm a process as possible, including for the victim. I guess he kind of takes the same attitude you would when putting down a dog. It makes him seem nicer than all the other gangsters somehow - which is absurd, because he's probably the most ruthless killer in the whole show.

Also, I forgot about this little scene. So good!

[Misereatur]

May not be my favorite scene, but I really like the begining of All Due Respect (2nd episode, 3rd season). Where right before Omar takes Barksdale's stash - posing as a veteran returning from the hospital - one of the "guards" in the stash house tells his friend how he was approached by an "old white guy" and was asked "where the Poe house is".

Of course, the paper bag speech by Major Colvin is brilliant. Also credited to Ed Burns.

[Inlander]

Season 4 sees the arrival of Kellerman (played by Reed Diamond), who's one of the most significant characters in the show, while season 5 brings in a new M.E. played by Michelle Forbes, who also brings something really cool and interesting to the show. In these two seasons they also start exploring the inner lives of the characters in some really interesting ways, with Pembleton struggling with his faith and Bayliss exploring his sexuality. These seasons also have the ongoing Luther Mahoney storyline, which was pretty good and which resulted in a classic "fuck you!" from the writers to the network.

Of course, there are also a few dud episodes, but with the network by that time asking for "full" seasons (20-odd episodes) that was bound to happen.

[KvP]

The show suffers a bit from network televisionitis, but yeah, the Luther Mahoney storyline is a good one. As with many things on Homicide, you can trace a direct lineage from it to the Wire, and other edgy cop shows to come, particularly the Shield.

Richard Belzer's Munch (based on Jay Landsman) gets a little tiring at times, but in general he never truly breaks the tone of the show (I'm looking at you, Hiro from Heroes) but I disagree with Tommy in that I think all the character actors are excellent, even fucking Daniel Baldwin. Yaphet Kotto is commanding even when he's got nothing to do.

But to answer your question, the show is good and stays good up until Andre Braugher's departure, he's not in the last season. At that point the show had something of an identity crisis.

[Inlander]

I forgot to mention that after season 3 you start to get Pembleton and Bayliss working more as a team in the box, which if you appreciate good character acting and writing is really great to watch.

[Inlander]

It's true, watching the Wire does make it impossible to enjoy any other police show ever again. Though if the Australian Broadcasting Corporation ever makes Phoenix available on D.V.D., that might change.

[ZJGent]

Anyone who by implication says that Midsomer Murders is not an accurate well-written account of the British police procedural system is a damn dirty liar.
I mean, this ... this Wire series obviously is some kind of americanised Midsomer Murders clone, right?
Right.

[KvP]

For fans of the show (probably not for people who haven't seen it) /film has an immense 3 1/2 hour podcast on the Wire, featuring Alan Sepinwall, who is probably the most prominent and respected TV blogger on the internets (you can find his write-ups of currently running shows here as well as commentary on the 1st season of the Wire in spoilerific and spoiler-free versions for those just catching up with the Wire, as well as reviews of Seasons 4 and 5) Good stuff!