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Author Topic: Will you watch these Watchmen?  (Read 124999 times)

lprkn

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #200 on: 27 Jan 2009, 11:41 »

Nite Owl actually looks more like the character in the comic. The Comedian looks like f-in Mario.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #201 on: 01 Feb 2009, 14:40 »

NYT Article on Zach Snyder and Watchmen

I love that Lindelof has already seen the movie. I wish he'd made a statement one way or the other on if he liked it.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #202 on: 03 Feb 2009, 04:03 »










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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #203 on: 03 Feb 2009, 16:00 »

The rorschach costume looks off, the wrong colors on stuff. I think the coat might also be shorter than it should be. Might be accurate to the movie, who knows?
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #204 on: 18 Feb 2009, 19:04 »

Alright so I am pretty super-pumped. I'm getting into a trade screening of this tomorrow morning, will post a probably fanboyish and spoiler-free review tomorrow evening.

EDIT: Pretty good movie. Gotta keep this short, I was asked not to talk about it much. For the most part, a very faithful and good adaptation. Loses some of the depth and substance of the comic, but that really shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone. It's very sleek, while maintaining its brutality and grit; this movie definitely gets the dark feeling of the comic. I'm a huge fan of the source, and I'm satisfied.
« Last Edit: 19 Feb 2009, 17:05 by Dazed »
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skinnyfat

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #205 on: 19 Feb 2009, 18:06 »

I am so excited about this move. The comic book is amazing. It might possibly be the best comic book I have ever read.

I love the actor they have for the comedian, and the actor playing Dr. Manhattan looks good for his part as well. The only thing I worry about, which other people have mentioned already, is that the rest seem too young. Especially the actor playing Night Owl. Does anyone else think Rorschach sounds like Christian Bale in Batman mode?

The thing that makes me the most excited about the movie, is that some scenes from the trailers seem as if they were pulled straight from the pages of the comic books. I hope it will be a farily faithful rendition.

I hope I am not disappointed...
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Surgoshan

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #206 on: 19 Feb 2009, 18:31 »

Does anyone else think Rorschach sounds like Christian Bale in Batman mode?

He should.  It's explicitly stated in the comic that he talks in an expressionless monotone.

Of course, Batman shouldn't sound like that.  But Rorschach should.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #207 on: 19 Feb 2009, 19:04 »

For the record, Jackie Earle Haley is *awesome*. Jeffrey Dean Morgan is fantastic as well.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #208 on: 19 Feb 2009, 20:09 »

The dude who plays Rorschach is actually the only main actor who has read the book. I would have made that a requirement if I were the director.


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Guido Sarducci

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #209 on: 19 Feb 2009, 21:02 »

well, it would make sense. Directors want actors to come to the work free from outside influence, if they can. Sometimes. But not always. I find I nee to qualify every statement I make nowadays because someone somewhere is going to get excited and call me a xenophobe...
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Vidya

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #210 on: 19 Feb 2009, 21:12 »

The movie will be awesome. Alan Moore will still hate it.
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Guido Sarducci

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #211 on: 20 Feb 2009, 15:40 »

Well see there? someone finally found the right word. :laugh:
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Surgoshan

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #212 on: 20 Feb 2009, 17:32 »

Well see there? someone finally found the right word. :laugh:

Why do you hate women so?
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #213 on: 20 Feb 2009, 17:54 »

wah? I love women. I could talk for days about how amazing they are, from the violin at the small of their back, to the way they make me act civilized, to the fact that they don't look like total boobs when they walk around naked.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #214 on: 20 Feb 2009, 18:17 »

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Dimmukane

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #215 on: 20 Feb 2009, 18:48 »

This is what has to happen if the movie ends up sucking.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #216 on: 04 Mar 2009, 18:55 »

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #217 on: 04 Mar 2009, 19:40 »

The New Yorker reviewer doesn't like it (link contains major untagged spoilers) and takes a few cheap shots while expressing his dislike. His beef is is the ever-increasing fetishization of violence and the ever-growing abstraction of suffering. Which is a legitimate beef to have, by and large, but I'm sure there are better points to make about the film's weaknesses.
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Alex C

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #218 on: 04 Mar 2009, 19:57 »

Holy shit. Roger Ebert gave it 4 stars. I didn't really see that coming and I don't know what to make of it, particularly since we tend to have rather similar tastes.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2009, 19:59 by Alex C »
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Guido Sarducci

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #219 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:15 »

The New Yorker reviewer doesn't like it (link contains major untagged spoilers) and takes a few cheap shots while expressing his dislike. His beef is is the ever-increasing fetishization of violence and the ever-growing abstraction of suffering. Which is a legitimate beef to have, by and large, but I'm sure there are better points to make about the film's weaknesses.

Lane is a pretentious asshole who needs to find another vocation. He's completely missed the point of the story, and seems so focused on the fact that it's a comic (and ooooh how this pretentious turd hates comics) that he can't actually see what the movie is telling us: that in a culture which has become inured to violence through over exposure, the limit of what is acceptable becomes the province of the overindulgent, the insane, and the simple minded.. He whines that Rorshach reads like a bad James Ellroy. Well YEAH. That's the point, you fucking nitwit.

Three donkeypunches and a kick to the nads for Mister Tony Lane.
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Surgoshan

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #220 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:15 »

Probably Ebert gave it four stars because he understood what the movie was... that is to say, it's not another comic book movie.

He tends to review movies based on what they shoot for rather than what he likes.
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Alex C

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #221 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:27 »

Yeah, I get that, and I enjoy Ebert's reviews in part because I like that about him. But I still didn't expect this movie to really turn out very well. I find the idea that my trepidation may be unfounded slightly disorienting.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #222 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:28 »

Ebert still gets a lot of shit for giving a glowing review to the Cedric the Entertainer Honeymooners film, actually.

You have to love Ebert. Still, he takes the same stance with vidya games that Long does with comics. Not that it's illegitimate.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #223 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:47 »

It's not legitimate.
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Vidya

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #224 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:52 »

The New Yorker reviewer doesn't like it (link contains major untagged spoilers) and takes a few cheap shots while expressing his dislike. His beef is is the ever-increasing fetishization of violence and the ever-growing abstraction of suffering. Which is a legitimate beef to have, by and large, but I'm sure there are better points to make about the film's weaknesses.

Wait, wait, wait. Wasn't Lane the same idiot who thought the Matrix was about time travel?
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Alex C

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #225 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:54 »

Oh, yeah, I nearly forgot about the way he shits all over video games everytime he's forced to sit through another god awful adaptation. Oddly though, I think he's relatively even handed about that, even if he does take a few unnecessary cheap shots along the way; for example, he gave Hitman a relatively decent review despite his biases. He didn't just crap all over it just because Uwe Bolle inflicted Blood Rayne on us or because the average video game has about as much plot as a porno.

I do think that Ebert's being a bit myopic about the issue though. I don't think that all video games are art, necessarily, or that the mechanics of video gaming are even in any way truly conducive to creating art. But I do think they can at the very least contain art. You can tell stories and create images with video games. Whether or not wrangling a joypad diminishes the power of that story or not is quite a different matter from saying there is no art present in games at all.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2009, 21:41 by Alex C »
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Surgoshan

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #226 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:54 »

Yeah, I get that, and I enjoy Ebert's reviews in part because I like that about him. But I still didn't expect this movie to really turn out very well. I find the idea that my trepidation may be unfounded slightly disorienting.

See, my trepidation is slight.

The modifications (and they are legion) have nothing to do with the substance of the novel.  They practically used the novel as a storyboard.  The changes have made it more modern in the sense that what people expected to see in the costume of a hero 30 years ago is entirely different from what we expect to see now.  That's the largest stylistic change.  30 years ago, a guy named Night Owl (II) was expected to look like an owl.  Now we expect him to look like a badass with a hint of owl.  Function before function.  

The major story changes were, I believe, dropped because they simply couldn't be adapted to film; caveat: not without keeping the film both A) watchable and B) under 4 hours in length.  Like dropping the Black Freighter subtext.  The film will be more straightforward, but keep the basic suspense... insofar as an adaptation of such a seminal work can be suspenseful.  I believe that it will try to keep the story... along the lines of The Usual Suspects.  Perhaps it's because I was only 14, but the end of TUS took me completely by surprise.  In fact, Watchmen can't even achieve that level of suspense, if only because Dreiburg and Rorschach already knew Veidt was behind it when the went to Antarctica...  

Basically, the big problem most reviewers have with the movie is that the fact that they're ignorant.  They don't know the purpose of the story.  Okay, huge caveat, I'm assuming most reviewers are ignorant fucktards who got jobs as reviewers because they couldn't get jobs as producers' assistants.

The story of Watchmen is a deconstruction of the masked hero.  Hence the negative colors (purple, green) rather than primary (blue, yellow, red).  You're not meant to like and approve of the crime-fighters.  You're meant to question their motives.  Dreiburg's a bored dilettante.  Juspezyck was forced into it by her mother, who was into it for money.  The comedian did it because he liked hurting people. Rorschach's a serial killer.  Of all of them, the only one ostensibly motivated by heroics is Veidt; he does it to improve the human condition.  He's the only one motivated to "good for goodness' sake"... and he follows this to a wholly logical and wholly absurd conclusion that makes him perhaps the worst mass murderer in human history.

This is what Ebert gets, and what virtually ever other reviewer will not.

This is not an action movie; this is a movie with action in it.

This is not a comic book movie; this is a movie based on a comic book.

This is not the Dark Knight; this is a movie with the Dark Knight's budget.

This is not a movie; this is a film.

Because Watchmen was not a comic book; Watchmen was the first graphic novel.

At least... this is what I hope.  And given that the early reviews have been uniformly negative (except for Ebert), this is what I expect.
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Alex C

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #227 on: 04 Mar 2009, 21:03 »

The idea that I was never really upset by it is kinda the whole reason I chose a word as mild as trepidation in the first place. ;)
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Dimmukane

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #228 on: 04 Mar 2009, 21:23 »

Although I generally hate making comparisons to Ayn Rand, Ebert is kind of like the Howard Roark of movie critics.  Basically: he gets it, and nobody else (famous critics, anyways) does.  There's obviously more to it than that, but he genuinely seems to do his job for his love of film and literature and not for any other reason.



He's also not nearly as myopic about the video games thing as he used to be.  He has commented on his blog about it, something along the lines of "They are still not art, but they are making progress."
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #229 on: 04 Mar 2009, 21:32 »

I'm not really up in arms about his assessments but I have to admit that's not really progress. "It's alright - for a video game" doesn't really contradict his earlier assertions.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #230 on: 04 Mar 2009, 21:43 »

Well, he went from saying pretty negative things about that whole debate to "they may become what I consider to be art possibly in my lifetime and maybe I also have done a little more research".  Seeing as the dude is somewhere around 80 (I have no idea actually), that isn't exactly a small change of stance.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #231 on: 05 Mar 2009, 13:27 »

Slate has a bunch of stuff about Watchmen today. Particularly of note is a critique of how the comics industry (and comics fans) fucked up the opportunity for renaissance that it presented.

Also, a review of the comic from it's 20th, some hypotheticals w/r/t different directors helming the movie, and a contemporary examination of the Rorschach blot.

They just posted their review of the film as well. Their worry is that people who see the movie but haven't read the comic will miss the point of it, and that's a pretty valid concern (see also: Fallout 3)
« Last Edit: 05 Mar 2009, 14:08 by KvP »
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #232 on: 06 Mar 2009, 00:36 »

Personally, I thought it was pretty great.
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Be My Head

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #233 on: 06 Mar 2009, 01:14 »

I didn't think it was up to the same level of subtlety as the book, but then again what movie is? (Oh wait, plenty). Anyway, it was definitely a great movie. They could have put a lot more thought into the sets and the "special" effects, in my opinion, as each shot seemed to get progressively more boring.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #234 on: 06 Mar 2009, 02:43 »

Overall I thought it was pretty good.

Good things:
 - Special Effects were pretty good, I guess
 - Not afraid of male nudity, which is rare these days
 - Kept a brisk pace
 - Jackie Earle Haley was really good. Better when he didn't have the mask on, which was unfortunately not often.
 - Most of the other actors acquitted themselves, for the most part

Bad things:
 - Some of the other actors, particularly Carla Gugino as Silk Spectre I, were pretty bad.
 - Altered ending makes less sense than original ending
 - Most (if not all, I haven't read the comic in quite some time) of the dialogue was transplanted straight from the comics. The movie ran into problems when it entered Emotional Monologue Mode. There's only so much you can take of people discussing how Dr. Manhattan is atomically autistic in real time. I shut down during various parts of the film because of this. The beginning montage set a pretty high bar for gracefully providing backstory and some of the monologues after that just felt forced (looking at you, Veidt).
 - I saw it with a friend who hadn't read the comic and he solved the mystery shortly into the film, and I can definitely see how he could. I didn't have this experience with the comic.

I didn't have any specific beef with the action sequences even if they drastically increased the protagonists' abilities. It was the cutting of the B and C story that irked me a bit more. As it stands the movie is fine, but it doesn't really touch the comic. I think there's some risk that the film could supplant the book in the public consciousness as far as how people think about Watchmen. If you're reading this you're a nerd and this possibility likely seems absurd, but you have to put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't care to read comic books or "classic literature", if you want to get picky about it. As I hinted at earlier, this is the same sort of dilemma that fans of the old Fallouts faced upon the release of Fallout 3. From that point on, the older, better games effectively didn't really matter. As the brand came out of the cult and into the wider public consciousness it changed in certain small but significant (to the cult, anyway) ways, such that it won't ever be what it was again. Maybe Watchmen the comic is too salient to suffer that sort of thing, but it's something to consider at least.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #235 on: 06 Mar 2009, 02:49 »

The movie achieved more than I could've hoped for, to be honest.

I feel like it was more than an adaptation of the book. Snyder used the medium he had to supplant the medium he lost in really excellent ways.

It wasn't flawless. The acting was pretty bad in parts. The soundtrack sometimes intrusive.

But...

It was good? If it could be done better, I don't know who would possibly manage.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #236 on: 06 Mar 2009, 03:43 »

The AV Club has a relatively extensive comparison of the film to the book and makes some pretty unassailable points about how Snyder changed the characters in rather important ways (namely, making them superhuman and adding to them an ecstatic enjoyment of violence almost completely missing in the comic)
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #237 on: 06 Mar 2009, 13:24 »

I am seeing this tonight and I am excited. I only just got the book last week, so it's still fresh. This could be either a good or bad thing (I have problems with books to movies as of late), so I will give opinions on it later.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #238 on: 06 Mar 2009, 23:41 »

Best part of the night: right after Rorschach poured the deep fryer all over the black prisoner who was about to shank him, most of the audience applauded and cheered (I did not, because I am classy and understand that Alan Moore did not intend for Rorschach's actions to be seen as laudable), and then a black guy piped up from the back, "None of ya'll were applaudin' when he beat anyone else up!"

He was wrong, however, because earlier in the movie there was one guy who was really into Rorschach setting the cops on fire.

Aside: Carla Gugino in her old lady makeup just made me think of Amy Sedaris, and Malin Akerman ranks a Cameron Diaz on the tone-deaf line readings scale.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #239 on: 06 Mar 2009, 23:56 »

I'm fairly certain I went into the movie not really predicting how much I would enjoy it too much.

That being said, I thought it was one of the worst comic book movies I've ever seen and I'm fairly certain I won't be watching it again. Everything was right and the story was pretty much all there. But it was just not a good movie. The action and effects were correcly not made to be the most important part of the film, but there was almost zero emotional resonance to fill the void (even for someone who's read the comic multiple times and loves the characters.) I chalk it up to bad casting, terrible acting, and a bad director.

Billy Crudup and Jackie Earle Haley were both good though. They were the only ones.

Honestly by the time Dan and Laurie were having dinner I was already checking the time. It wasn't all that bad, but far too much of it was.
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2009, 00:41 by JediBendu »
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #240 on: 07 Mar 2009, 00:07 »

Are you joking? Since when was the movie supposed to be about the special effects? I don't recall the book ever being about flashy art.

Also, I thought the acting was great, maybe some morons laughed at the wrong parts, but that didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie.

Maybe the people who say they dislike the characters have their own vision of what they are supposed to be like in a movie adaptation and can't accept another person's interpretation.
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2009, 00:10 by Be My Head »
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #241 on: 07 Mar 2009, 00:17 »

I didn't necessarily say the movie is supposed to be about special effects. I said that it's not about that, and that there is nothing to fill the gap of no action and adventure like in the comic. No emotion, no deep psychology. The story beats are all there but they are not pulled of. Nothing that matters. If it was all about special effects and they changed the story entirely it would be a better MOVIE than it is now, I'm sure. As it is I think it's a faithful ADAPTATION that is a borderline unwatchable MOVIE.

Seriously, people need to not get up in arms about this shit.

And no, it's not that I can't accept another person's interpretation. I just can't accept bad acting. Period. I already said I thought there were two good actors in the film. And the interpretation of Rorschach is not totally what I would think. Though as a matter of fact I think most of the "interpretations" of the characters is in line with what is in the comic/most readers think. Some of that acting is just so horrid it lost me totally.
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2009, 00:18 by JediBendu »
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Be My Head

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #242 on: 07 Mar 2009, 00:21 »

Okay, I thought the acting was good. They expressed most (if not all) of the subtle emotion present in the comic book characters, in my opinion (duh)

I guess the only characters I thought were bad were Sally and Rorschach's psychiatrist (he was totally nothing like he was in the book in terms of character, they ruined the whole interview thing in the movie)
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #243 on: 07 Mar 2009, 00:36 »

I thought the Rorschach portions were generally the highest point of the film. That's where it seemed to feel most comfortable with itself.

One weird thing that bothered me throughout the movie was the exaggerated sound effects. Particularly sound effects for punching and moving and bullets, it sounded like the equivalent of comic book sound effects. Sound effects that Alan Moore tried his damndest to avoid for the comic.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #244 on: 07 Mar 2009, 06:09 »

I enjoyed the movie. It was pretty close to the book and even though they changed the ending a bit, they did it in a way that made enough sense. (I didn't really care for the whole blaming it on aliens thing, but it got the point across.) Also the cast did a pretty good job with getting into character. The only thing that bothered me cast-wise was Goode's hair.

Did the soundtrack annoy anyone else in the movie? There were some scenes when I think an OS would have been better, but I did like the period music in some spots.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #245 on: 07 Mar 2009, 23:22 »

I loved this movie and think they did a really good job.  The different time periods were compressed well, the ultra violence seemed necessary, and I loved the way they changed the ending.

The one thing I hated was the sex scene, it went on for way to long and I may never be able to listen to Hallelujah the same again.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #246 on: 08 Mar 2009, 00:12 »

The ultra-violence was way unnecessary but at least, unlike in 300, it wasn't celebratory.

Movie was alright. The new ending actually works, almost. Nite Owl was good, Comedian was good, Rorschach was good. The music was hilariously bad, not just the soundtracking but stuff like the godawful Law & Order music that played when Rorschach walks away from Nite Owl and tells him, "You quit." The woman who played Sally Jupiter played her in old age like a MADTV character. The sex scene goes on too long and is kind of baffling. Rorschach's last scene is really powerful and then instantly gets deflated which kinda sucks. A good chunk of it was kinda ham handed ("The Comedian... is your father"). Some of the audience didn't seem to get at first that the violence is supposed to make you kind of uncomfortable but I think they got it by the end. Still didn't justify a bunch of scenes where they BEAT UP THUGS except Snyder actually managed to include a subtext (!) that suggests that the heroes kind of got off on the violence and the idea of vigilante justice which isn't morally vindicated at any point and in fact gets morally muddled when Silk Spectre knocks out a cop. Nixon's nose was dumb as hell.

But aside from that it was fun and not actually that bad and they managed to get some of the tone and themes right.
« Last Edit: 08 Mar 2009, 00:15 by Johnny C »
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #247 on: 08 Mar 2009, 00:26 »

No that's the thing, I really don't believe the violence was intended to make the audience uncomfortable. At least, as in every action movie there's violence that is perpetrated against good people, which is bad, and violence perpetrated against ethnic minorities gang bangers and terrorists, which is so awesome. How can you be uncomfortable when the characters are having such fun? The Comedian is an exception because he's set up to be this guy who harms good people as well as bad people. Rorschach is an exception because he's, well, never having fun. But Nite Owl and Silk Spectre both kill numerous people without batting an eye. When Manhattan implodes people it's basically gross-out comedy. In the comic the alleyway confrontation is set up as this tense thing, the heroes don't want to come to blows. In the movie they're fucking Bruce Willis, smirking and removing their glasses so they don't get brains on them. And after that they decide to don the costumes again, apparently because of the violence more than anything.

Which is the main thing I'd cite when talking about differences between the source material and the adaptation - the source material isn't a hollywood testosterone exhibition. the adaptation is, but it effectively takes on the airs of the comic without really embracing it outright. I've heard a lot of people say that the action scenes were "necessary". They were only necessary in that nobody would bother to see a straight adaptation of Watchmen. That would just be depressing, right?
« Last Edit: 08 Mar 2009, 00:34 by KvP »
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Johnny C

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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #248 on: 08 Mar 2009, 00:46 »

It's not like that goes unremarked though. When Silk Spectre rams the knife into the dude's throat it's juxtaposed with Manhattan talking about how dead and living humans are basically the same. The fact that the heroes seem to treat the violence as playtime muddles their morality and that of the criminals. The heroes don't seem to be in it entirely for the justice. And that makes sense, kind of – there are plenty of ways to enact justice that don't involve dressing up and beating on people, yet Laurie and Dan do that.

I don't agree with the hyperviolence or the way it's handled, but I admire the fact that the film backs it up.
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Re: Will you watch these Watchmen?
« Reply #249 on: 08 Mar 2009, 08:51 »

I skimmed over the book after watching the movie and noticed how many details they got. Little thing like the outfits, they nailed em perfectly.



Best thing abut watching this movie: A kid went eww early in the movie and got STFU from another guy
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