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Author Topic: Rowling drops the gay bomb  (Read 24038 times)

Lines

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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #50 on: 22 Oct 2007, 07:28 »

I seriously hope that there will be some good (GOOD! not trashy) Young!Dumbledore/Young!Grindewald fanfiction to come out of this

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Not gonna happen.

I honestly wish people would stop making fanfic for just about everything, but yeah, it's just not going to happen. And what does come about probably will be trashy. As usual.

Edit: to cover both slash and everything else.
« Last Edit: 22 Oct 2007, 17:46 by Linds »
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #51 on: 22 Oct 2007, 07:51 »

When slash isn't your thing, there are plenty of het fics to go through too. I'm sure there's a few Dumbledore/McGonagalls out there.
And not all slash is trash. You just have to give the effort to look for the good stuff.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #52 on: 22 Oct 2007, 07:59 »

...hold on, I just shuddered

OK. Wow, this shit be interesting. There really do need to be more depictions of old gay men in the media. Go Rowling.
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #53 on: 22 Oct 2007, 12:45 »

I don't know why but that post was the first thing to put a bad picture into my mind.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo............
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #54 on: 22 Oct 2007, 12:48 »

Nooooooooooooooooooooo............

There are plenty of /34/s of ole Dumbles out there that made me say the same thing.  ]:
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #55 on: 22 Oct 2007, 12:56 »

I haven't gotten any bad mental images from this discussion until now.

Thanks a lot jimbunny. I hope you're happy.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #56 on: 22 Oct 2007, 13:01 »

I always thought there was something off about Dumbledore. Now i know what it was.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #57 on: 22 Oct 2007, 14:19 »

Maybe it's all the 4ch0nz I've been taking in, but the thought of Dumbledore /34/ isn't all that nauseating. I mean, come on, there's worse things out there.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #58 on: 22 Oct 2007, 14:35 »

When slash isn't your thing, there are plenty of het fics to go through too. I'm sure there's a few Dumbledore/McGonagalls out there.
And not all slash is trash. You just have to give the effort to look for the good stuff.

How should I put this...

It is is a cop out used by no-talent writers with hackneyed ideas who are too lazy to create their own worlds or characters.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #59 on: 22 Oct 2007, 14:40 »

I have basically no appreciation or respect for fan fiction in general. Basically what Dan said. (And most of it is crap and/or trashy. Sorry if you disagree, but that's just how it is to me.) If you like writing, make up your own fictional world to write about, not something that was written by somebody else.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #60 on: 22 Oct 2007, 16:59 »

I remember being SOOOOO pissed off when my favourite fanfic author came to that realisation (sometime before Goblet of Fire.) Thing is, though, it's true. If you can come up with a good story other people should read, you can probably come up with a coupla characters too.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #61 on: 22 Oct 2007, 17:59 »

I think that a fan fiction is a good place for writers to get started, though. I mean, I rarely write it anymore (with the acception of 1 story, which I only continue to write simply because I want to finish it), but it peaked my interest in writing and got me to create my own ideas for original works. Plus, when I become a published author, I totally can't wait to read how someone else will warp my story to fit their ideas. I mean, yeah it might be crap, but it will still at least be amusing.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #62 on: 22 Oct 2007, 18:25 »

Well, at least a celibate character is contrary to the whole "all gays are promiscuous deviants" thing. 

Or maybe they just didn't talk about his sex life, just like they didn't talk about McGonagall's, or many other adult figures.  It's just how Rowling imagined her character.  I kind of like the idea that in the books he could just be gay, without it needing to become an issue. 

Apparently, she chose to bring it up now because a draft of the next movie script had Dumbledore talking about a lady from his past.  She could have just quietly corrected the  screenwriters, but it would certainly have gotten out eventually.  Appropriately , she let Dumbledore come out of the closet right after National Coming Out Week.  I don't know if that was intentional, but it's certainly interesting. 

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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #63 on: 22 Oct 2007, 19:40 »

Or maybe they just didn't talk about his sex life, just like they didn't talk about McGonagall's, or many other adult figures.

Bingo!

It's obvious to me that she wrote him gay. It's also obvious how him being gay is about as relevant as McGonagall being straight(assuming she is...actually, I don't want to think too hard about that, thanks). It doesn't matter and the point of him being gay has nothing to do with tolerance or making people accept gay people. Harry Potter just exists in a world were people are actually human(/wizards) and that includes gay people. What. Ever.

Can our culture move on now?
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #64 on: 22 Oct 2007, 19:50 »

Not until we know if Dumbledore was a fisting bottom with a preference for uncut dominicans

GOD.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #65 on: 22 Oct 2007, 20:22 »

1) I think Dumbledore being gay is so awesome! I've heard some gay people say, "Oh, but he didn't act gay enough or wasn't prominent enough to do anything for gay rights", etc, but I think they are missing the point entirely! This just goes to show anyone you know and respect could be gay, and it really shouldn't affect your opinion of that person. I believe, in movies, having a flamboyant gay character as the norm is actually starting to hurt gay rights. It's beginning to caricaturize gay people as a whole. Just like other types of people, there are many different types of gay people. I have three middle aged/old professors who are openly gay and it would be ridiculous to suggest that because they don't dress trendy, have the latest style hair or "talk gay", that they are failing to advance gay rights or something. Besides, someone's sexuality has NOTHING to do with the general storyline of the books and shouldn't be brought up anyway.

2) I hated how people started saying afterwards that Dumbledore was probably actually some creepy old pedophile who was gunning for Tom Riddle and Harry Potter. Gay old men are, as a majority, not pedophiles. It's such a narrow minded view and it scares me to think how people immediately turned their opinions against him. I wonder what will happen when this happens in real life? For example, if a decorated hero, using perhaps Lt. Michael Murphy, who was recently awarded the  Medal of Honor for being killed by enemy fire while attempting to save his team, was discovered to be gay, would this affect people's view of him? Probably. Should it? No.

3) Dumbledore being gay, while not really having anything to do with the story of the Harry Potter books, turns Dumbledore into more of a Tragic Hero than Harry. One could almost(?) argue now that Dumbledore was JKR's principal character, not Harry. While Harry has been criticized as being a static character, Dumbledore is a character who started off as a kind, famous, powerful and all knowing wizard and ended as a person who people realized was very human, with very human mistakes, and the very human ability to experience love and loss. Grindelwald is Dumbledore's hamartia, and while one could argue Dumbledore did not experience peripeteia in a pure sense of the term, definitely Dumbledore having to battle his best friend and lover brought about his anagnorisis (aka, him realizing that the ideas he had formulated with Grindelwald was defintely evil and that he had to stand against ideas and people who supported them. Dumbledore is most definitely the Tragic Hero of this story. And I love him.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #66 on: 22 Oct 2007, 22:32 »

I just wonder why she chose to reveal that?

someone asked her. duh.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #67 on: 22 Oct 2007, 22:58 »

I hated how people started saying afterwards that Dumbledore was probably actually some creepy old pedophile who was gunning for Tom Riddle and Harry Potter.

I agree.  If Dumbledore were straight, his sexuality would be of no consequence whatsoever to the plot.  It hasn't been up until now, has it?  I hate how for a lot of people, being gay = sexual deviant.

Can our culture move on now?

SECONDED.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #68 on: 23 Oct 2007, 00:39 »

It's obvious to me that she wrote him gay. It's also obvious how him being gay is about as relevant as McGonagall being CLEARLY A FAG HAG
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #69 on: 23 Oct 2007, 05:33 »

I was gonna post something... but cmon miracle posted it for me.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #70 on: 23 Oct 2007, 22:53 »

I started reading HP right around when they came out, so...10 years ago? I don't really know if I fully understood what being 'gay' was. Like, the idea of one male liking another was reasonably foreign.
I don't know if she was doing it for publicity or to make a statement, but I'm glad she did. It doesn't seem like people will be putting down her books any time soon because of this.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #71 on: 24 Oct 2007, 04:42 »

I have mixed feelings about the release of that kind of information. I mean, for one, I don't think anybody should even care. So what, he was into dudes!

*POTENTIAL SPOILERS*
It does make a bit of sense though, I agree. I mean, his correspondence with Grindelwald is definitely something to think about. The two discussed a "Greater Good" philosophy, which honestly seems rather Hitler-esque. But keep in mind that people, no matter what their sexual orientation, will go absolutely insane because of love. I've done it before and it was a mindfuck when I got out of it, and I learned a lot from it. Dumbledore becoming the excellent authority figure he was was probably a result of that whole relationship ending in the death of the one he loved.
*END POTENTIAL SPOILERS*
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #72 on: 24 Oct 2007, 06:27 »

I lolled at how she worded her answer. She was originally asked 'Did DD ever fall in love?' and her very first response was 'well, he's gay.' After which she then brought up Grindewald. But when I first read it, I thought she was saying gay people couldn't fall in love.

Later, I heard from huge fanfic fan friends I have how dissappointed they were that it was DD that was gay and not Sirius/Lupin. I'm so happy it wasn't them.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #73 on: 24 Oct 2007, 07:12 »

Your fanfic friends sound pretty far in denial considering Lupin married Tonks and the hints at a relationship developing between the two had been laid since at least Half Blood Prince (Possibly Order of the Phoenix, though it slips my mind). Considering he was already a pariah due to being a werewolf, I sincerely doubt coming out of the closet would be particularly difficult for him.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #74 on: 24 Oct 2007, 07:39 »

I'd rather it be Dumbledore than Sirius/Lupin or Harry/Draco. The latter four seemed to have no interest in members of the same sex, while Dumbledore was already pretty flamboyant (among other things!). Also, three of the latter four had relationships with females. Sirius was basically too busy running/hiding, so I can understand why he didn't have any romantic interest. (Basically any reason to negate the silliness of the slash some people come up with is fine by me, but we already discussed that.)
« Last Edit: 24 Oct 2007, 14:54 by Linds »
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #75 on: 24 Oct 2007, 08:17 »

I agree.  If Dumbledore were straight, his sexuality would be of no consequence whatsoever to the plot.

Sorry, but this is just not right.  For one thing, it would have added new dimensions to his insistence on keeping Trelawney in the castle . . . .
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #76 on: 24 Oct 2007, 11:41 »

I'd rather it be Dumbledore than Sirius/Lupin

if it had been sirius/lupin i would have gone to rowling's house and taken a shit on it
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #77 on: 24 Oct 2007, 11:56 »

Just one shit? Why not a bunch? Go for the gold!
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #78 on: 24 Oct 2007, 12:08 »

you seriously underestimate the size of the shit that news would force me to take
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #79 on: 24 Oct 2007, 12:19 »

Just make sure you get a lot of fiber beforehand, we wouldn't want you rupturing something on this crusade.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #80 on: 24 Oct 2007, 13:10 »

And then some laxatives. To make sure it's a massive shit. MASSIVE.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #81 on: 24 Oct 2007, 14:49 »

I don't care how flamboyant Dumbledore was, that has nothing to do with his sexual orientation. First off, he honestly seemed pretty chilled out to me, and second, flamboyance doesn't make people gay. Homosexuality makes people gay. Flamboyance is just a trait that popular culture picks on. I mean, which is funnier, the gay guy who doesn't really make a big deal out of it, or the gay guy who's like "HAAAAY GUYS I BOUGHT A PURSE THE OTHER DAAAAAY"? The latter is funnier because it's more outrageous.

Also Johnny I would totally help you with shitting on her house. I am a champion toilet-clogger.
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #82 on: 24 Oct 2007, 14:53 »

Is that really something to be proud of?
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #83 on: 24 Oct 2007, 17:26 »

Yeah, I've got the medal and everything. It's a BITCH to train for.

In other news, a thread was jacked on QC today, making it the third most easily threadjacked online community in the world, behind the tied 4chan and SomethingAwful.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #84 on: 24 Oct 2007, 18:47 »

Ever been to Sonic related webfora?
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #85 on: 24 Oct 2007, 18:53 »

Yeah, I've got the medal and everything. It's a BITCH to train for.
I don't even want to know.

Also, how about that whole 'Dumbledore is gay' thing, eh?
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #86 on: 25 Oct 2007, 15:19 »

doesnt really matter?, I mean Dumbledore being gay, I just see it as fuel for fire for the fundies out there.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #87 on: 25 Oct 2007, 20:36 »

Yeah, I've got the medal and everything. It's a BITCH to train for.
I don't even want to know.

Also, how about that whole 'Dumbledore is gay' thing, eh?
Clearly we have moved on to the topic of pooping! God, some people, with their 'guys, come on guys, let's keep to the point, guys...'
BAH I SAY!
Also - She probably avoided outing Sirius or Lupin for the (obviously legitimate) fear of poop on her lawn.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #88 on: 26 Oct 2007, 06:08 »

I think she made dumbledore gay because everyone else makes her characters gay...

Its like
"Oh, My audience LOVES gay people... I'll make the best character gay! They'll love that!"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1675622,00.html

heres an interesting article on the topic
« Last Edit: 26 Oct 2007, 06:15 by thatwittygeek »
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #89 on: 26 Oct 2007, 08:07 »

That article is kind of fucking ridiculous. Especially the bit about Dumbledore's homosexuality being the character's emotional identity. Because it obviously wasn't. Dumbledore's identity as a homosexual wizard was completely beside the point as any revelation of his sexual identity would not have furthered the storyline anymore. As it was Dumbledore was a kindly and obviously loving character that was surrounded by mystery. You didn't even find out any explicit information about him until the final books of the series. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that Cloud (the author) seems to be one of the many people out there with the view that all homosexual people have to be loud, "out there" and obnoxious about their orientation in order to justify it. Cloud talks about how it was "pathetic and tragically stereotypical" that Dumbledore should not talk nor acknowledge his sexuality. He also says that we can only conclude that Dumbledore found it shameful. I do not suppose it is possible that Dumbledore just found it none of anyone's damn business. Perhaps it would have been more empowering if he acted like Jack from Will & Grace? I find it impossible that people can be angry that a character as beloved as Dumbledore, a character who is seen as a role model now not just for the straight kids who want to practice magic but for the gay ones as well, a character who in all interactions conducts himself with grace and dignity was not portrayed as a stereotyped, campy and, let's face it, laughable caricature of an old gay man.

I've had a couple of conversations about personal identity with people I know and I have never understood why who you are attracted to is somehow the be all and end all of your existance. I'm told that because I'm a straight, white, middle class male all my opinions on any subject that does not concern people like me are completely bunk. That may or may not be true but I cannot fathom for one instant why a fictional portrayal of a gay man has to include loud, camp, and obnoxious behaviour. It is beyond me.


I realise that my little rant makes me come off as a bit of a crazy jerk who goes nuts on internet forums *nods to certain other forumites, you know who you are* and if someone wants to put forth a convincing argument as to why I am wrong then please go ahead because I would love to understand the opposing viewpoint.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #90 on: 26 Oct 2007, 08:19 »

I'm guessing the thinking behind it is that, because there was nothing about Dumbledore which identified him as being gay, it's not as good a portrayal as if he was screamingly camp.

That's just a guess though. Personally I think that it's a bollocks argument. People are not identified by their sexual identity, y'know.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #91 on: 26 Oct 2007, 10:25 »

In my opinion I think she just wanted to stir up some more good talk about herself. People are gonna take a look at the books again now and think "hmmm why didn't I pick up on him being gay before"..BAH J.K RAWLINGS lol...
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #92 on: 26 Oct 2007, 12:06 »

I think it's pretty simple.  She came up with characters.  She constructed identities for them.  She happened to construct Dumbledore as having homosexuality as a trait.  Then she wrote stories using her characters, and Dumbledore's homosexuality wasn't really relevant to the story, so it didn't really come up except implicitly at a few points.

Why si everyone convinced that it's a publicity stunt, or that she's somehow making this up after the fact?  I don't think it takes much imagination to understand that she really just made her characters the way she wanted and not everything about them was obvious.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #93 on: 26 Oct 2007, 12:07 »

It's not like Harry fucking Potter needed any more publicity at this point.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #94 on: 26 Oct 2007, 12:14 »

I think it's pretty simple.  She came up with characters.  She constructed identities for them.  She happened to construct Dumbledore as having homosexuality as a trait.  Then she wrote stories using her characters, and Dumbledore's homosexuality wasn't really relevant to the story, so it didn't really come up except implicitly at a few points.

Why si everyone convinced that it's a publicity stunt, or that she's somehow making this up after the fact?  I don't think it takes much imagination to understand that she really just made her characters the way she wanted and not everything about them was obvious.

YES.  Why do some people think that being gay must define who someone is as a person/character at all times?

The only extra publicity this will bring is that the religious crazies will burn the books extra hard.
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Liz

Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #95 on: 26 Oct 2007, 12:28 »

With extra hot flames. Yeah.
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bryanthelion

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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #96 on: 26 Oct 2007, 18:37 »

you dont seem like a crazy jerk. Totally, your debunking stereotypes. That is totally opposite of jerk in my opinion.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #97 on: 26 Oct 2007, 20:22 »

I'll bet Sir Ian McKellen wishes he had gone for the role of Dumbledore now.

Ian's always said that there aren't nearly enough gay characters in the media, and that there are a lot of gay actors still in the closet. He was actually rumored to be a contender for the part after Richard Harris died, but he turned it down, saying that he was already connected to one major icon, Gandalf. (I'd say two, since he was also Magneto.)

I wonder which of the other characters in HP are gay? This should lead to a heavy amount of speculation on HP forums. Place your bets!
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #98 on: 26 Oct 2007, 23:50 »

Also, why would she need the publicity? She doesn't. She's filthy rich. They have her reading from a throne.
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Re: Rowling drops the gay bomb
« Reply #99 on: 27 Oct 2007, 12:43 »

I cannot fathom for one instant why a fictional portrayal of a gay man has to include loud, camp, and obnoxious behaviour.

THIS.
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