Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 28 Nov 2021, 07:21
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Chanology?  (Read 25990 times)

StMonkey

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
  • *Comment of negligible importance*
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #50 on: 10 Feb 2008, 18:54 »

Alan Rickman was a prophet for the one true god, who wanted the world to work together to bake the biggest donut possible in order to appease his insatiable craving for donuts

Why is this not a religion yet?
Logged
Carpe Gluteum
Quote
The bottom line is, if anyone is going to start playing pranks by stuffing large quantities of food in their mouths, be wary.

MusicScribbles

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 813
  • John Milton was a punk rocker.
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #51 on: 10 Feb 2008, 19:01 »

I'm curious as to whether the OP really meant it when he said that Anonymous hit the streets. How would that work? How do Anonymous protest outside, 'together'?
I wonder if Fox will have a report on this like they did with this.
Logged
Quote from: Tommydski
Listen to SLOAN you CUNTS.

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #52 on: 10 Feb 2008, 19:14 »

It's ironic that people would make this about freedom of religion, since freedom of religion is something the Co$ hates. They own copyright on all their religious symbols, as well as holding patents on dianetics and the auditing process and so forth, and will ruthlessly prosecute anyone who attempts to follow the precepts of scientology outside of the Co$. Not brand them as heretics, you understand, but sue them, for copyright infringement.

Have a little read:

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/scientology/

I have no problem tolerating all sorts of whackos. I don't care if you think the moon is made of plywood, or if you worship the great star dolphin who began life on earth by taking a shit in the pacific. My problem is when people begin to engage in proselytising. Especially proselytising under false pretences, giving false or misleading information about the group being preached for. Especially when you use blackmail, intimidation, character defamation and libel laws to suppress not just criticism of your group, but also unbiased information about its practices. Scientologists are enticing people under false pretenses.  They employ brainwashing tactics on their recruits (the point of the auditing session is much the same as the brainwashing classic where the prisoner is put in a room with four lights and psychologically (and perhaps physically) tortured until he is willing to tell his inquisitor that there are five lights.)

Scientologists lost their rights to be respected, in my view. I have more respect for holocaust deniers. At least they publish books openly stating their ideas, and will try some semblance of debate. Scientologists only aim is to silence all criticism of themselves, probably setting some worrying legal precedents in the process. They will not engage in debate. They will not engage in theological discourse. Even by the tenuous standards of religion, they are a pathetic, money-grubbing sham. It is not their right to speak and worship that people want to curtail, because they don't speak, except to churn out the same tired lies, and they offer no freedom of worship to followers who have to pay for the equivalent of holy communion. It's our right to criticise scientology that people want to protect.

I treat religions exactly as I would political groups. The mere irrationality of their beliefs does not give them a right to extra protection.

EDIT: As for how does anonymous hit the streets, rather like this it would seem:














V For Vendetta mask is the new black balaclava?
« Last Edit: 10 Feb 2008, 19:20 by KharBevNor »
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #53 on: 10 Feb 2008, 19:32 »

Well, didn't they give those masks out for free the night that movie opened? I think the storm trooper mask is the best though.
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Cartilage Head

  • Only pretending to work
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,207
  • Do Me Baby
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #54 on: 10 Feb 2008, 20:08 »

You can buy them at Hot Topic. /b/tards shop at Hot Topic, appearantly.
Logged
Hate, rain on me

supersheep

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,276
  • you'll have to speak up, i'm a fish and lack ears
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #55 on: 10 Feb 2008, 20:46 »

Man I have been at riots and other places of illegal activity where there were fewer people masked up. I think we can safely say anonymous are wusses huh? Also, they must be happy dancey folk now that they have been in the Guardian and so on.

I agree with Mr. Dski and Ms. Ruyi and Mr. Dovey. There are many churches that have participated in naughty things, far naughtier than the scientologolologists. I mean, the stuff that went on in just one diocese of the Catholic church kinda outweighs pretty much everything they have done. The fact that they express control over their worshippers and try to keep them under the control of the hierarchy? OK, I may be a bit biased what with living in a predominantly Catholic state, but I always assumed that this was one of the things that all religions do - make sure the followers adhere to the doctrine and all.
Logged
DJ Weight Problem: if you think semantics isn't that important maybe you should just can dig four banana nine jenkins razor blade dinosaur

Alex C

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,969
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #56 on: 10 Feb 2008, 20:53 »

Uh, to be fair, Anonymity has kind of become a part of their whole shtick, what with the forced anonymity and all.
Logged
the ship has Dr. Pepper but not Mr. Pibb; it's an absolute goddamned travesty

KickThatBathProf

  • Only pretending to work
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,026
  • hey there
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #57 on: 10 Feb 2008, 21:08 »

Guys, guys, seriously.  Stop with the arguing.  What Would Flying Spaghetti Monster Do?
Logged
dumplings are the answer because the foreskin boys

Storm Rider

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Twelve stories high, made of radiation
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #58 on: 10 Feb 2008, 21:38 »

I am a stupid man but I find it surprisingly easy to not become a Scientologist.

In fact, if not becoming a Scientologist was an Olympic event, I would be prepared to represent Great Britain.

Fantastic.
Logged
Quote
[22:06] Shane: We only had sex once
[22:06] Shane: and she was wicked just...lay there

MusicScribbles

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 813
  • John Milton was a punk rocker.
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #59 on: 10 Feb 2008, 21:39 »

You see, now Tommy has to challenge Xenu to a race around the world.
Logged
Quote from: Tommydski
Listen to SLOAN you CUNTS.

Storm Rider

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Twelve stories high, made of radiation
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #60 on: 10 Feb 2008, 21:45 »

Guys, because of the title of this thread, I am now starting the First United Church of Jackie Chan.

I'll be giving a lengthy sermon about the trials he faced alongside his apostle Chris Tucker at a later date.
Logged
Quote
[22:06] Shane: We only had sex once
[22:06] Shane: and she was wicked just...lay there

Rizzo

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,215
  • R'lyeh City Hardcore
    • Riding the failboat
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #61 on: 10 Feb 2008, 21:55 »

The point Khar made I think is the most important.
If you opt out of Islam, Christianity, Judeaism etc you won't be sued, you might be called a heretic, people may treat you badly and you may be made to feel like human waste but you will not be sued for copyright infringement.
Certainly other religions will excommunicate you and treat you like shit but CoS will excommunicate you, treat you like shit, threaten you and probably attempt to take you to court if you speak out against them...
Logged
Quote from: Jimmy the Squid
Sometimes I feel like everyone around me is some sort of statistical/mathematical genuis and I'm hitting a gazelle in the head with a rock and screaming at the sky when there's a storm.

est

  • this is a test
  • Admin emeritus
  • Older than Moses
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,294
  • V O L L E Y B A L L
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #62 on: 10 Feb 2008, 22:09 »

I was going to make a detailed post in here, but then I read Ozy and Khar's posts and saw that they already had basically everything I wanted to say covered.

My summation: freedom of religion is great.  People should be free to practise whatever religion they want.  Organisations, however, should never be free to extort their members, brainwash them, encourage them to do awful things and in some cases imprison them against their will.  They are not the actions of a religion or organisation that is to be respected.

Also: please don't give me any of this bullshit about them being a "young religion".  Religions got away with that kind of shit when they were "young" because we were back in ye olde ages, not simply because they were religions.  I would like to think that civilisation has evolved a little since those times.
Logged

MusicScribbles

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 813
  • John Milton was a punk rocker.
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #63 on: 10 Feb 2008, 22:35 »

I have to agree with every bit against the organization. You can practive whatever you want to otherwise.

This made my day. After reading this blog entry, I smiled a lot.

Also, from the protest:
Logged
Quote from: Tommydski
Listen to SLOAN you CUNTS.

calenlass

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,194
  • queefcicle!
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #64 on: 10 Feb 2008, 22:47 »

So good.
Logged
Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

MusicScribbles

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 813
  • John Milton was a punk rocker.
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #65 on: 10 Feb 2008, 23:16 »

Also, here is a video of the London sector getting rickrolled by protestors. Apparently more than 300 showed up at London's protest. There are reports of 100's showing up to many of them, around the world. I have to say, a better thing to talk about in this thread is the sheer awesome that these protests are exhuding. I'm sure that more videos will be put up in no time, as the protests were only yesterday, which, from where I am right now, was only two hours ago.
Logged
Quote from: Tommydski
Listen to SLOAN you CUNTS.

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #66 on: 10 Feb 2008, 23:39 »

I'm mostly annoyed at Scientology 'cause they tried to bullshit me personally. I don't take kindly to being bullshitted.

Also, MusicScribbles, I kindof want to find out who that "LONGCAT" person is expressly so I can bitchslap them. It really doesn't help the cause and just confuses people. Fuck, every site I've been to that has been organizing stuff for this IRL raid has gone well out of their way to say "Listen guys. Don't reference memes. Nobody's going to get it but you."
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

est

  • this is a test
  • Admin emeritus
  • Older than Moses
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,294
  • V O L L E Y B A L L
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #67 on: 10 Feb 2008, 23:40 »

"DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING"

awesome.
Logged

Rizzo

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,215
  • R'lyeh City Hardcore
    • Riding the failboat
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #68 on: 10 Feb 2008, 23:57 »

Quote
How do you, ideologically speaking, defeat a crowd that is enthusiastically demanding that you "DO A BARREL ROLL! DO A BARREL ROLL!!" ?
Logged
Quote from: Jimmy the Squid
Sometimes I feel like everyone around me is some sort of statistical/mathematical genuis and I'm hitting a gazelle in the head with a rock and screaming at the sky when there's a storm.

calenlass

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,194
  • queefcicle!
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #69 on: 11 Feb 2008, 00:00 »

Guys when is the next protest? Has anyone thought that far ahead yet?



(I want to take a video camera and film it. You guys know the 4chan dude lives in my city, right?)
« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2008, 00:01 by calenlass »
Logged
Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

Alex C

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,969
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #70 on: 11 Feb 2008, 00:00 »

I wanted to say something about irregardless earlier, but I remain unsure whether it's some kind of elaborate prank, so I kept my mouth shut.
Logged
the ship has Dr. Pepper but not Mr. Pibb; it's an absolute goddamned travesty

calenlass

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,194
  • queefcicle!
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #71 on: 11 Feb 2008, 00:02 »

Tommydski is the subtlest of trolls.
Logged
Hey everyone, I need to buy some new bookshelves. When I get back from Ikea and put them together you're all invited to the bookshelf launch party.

Ozymandias

Re: Chanology?
« Reply #72 on: 11 Feb 2008, 00:17 »

Man I have been at riots and other places of illegal activity where there were fewer people masked up. I think we can safely say anonymous are wusses huh?

Yeah, the point is kind of, uh, "Anonymous." Also, I don't think they're scared of the cops. I think they're a little bit scared of the Church. I would be.

Katie, the next protest is March 15, I think, according to the 4chan.
Logged
You are 9/11.
You are the terrorist.

jhocking

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,414
  • Corruption City USA
    • new|Arteest
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #73 on: 11 Feb 2008, 00:40 »

I remain unsure whether it's some kind of elaborate prank
Great, now he'll pretend he made those mistakes on purpose and I'll look like a dumbass. THANKS A LOT DUDE

DonInKansas

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 430
  • Grammar Nazi
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #74 on: 11 Feb 2008, 01:05 »


Bear in mind, the protests are aimed at the CoS, not the actual religion itself. The protestors claim that the CoS is actually a cult that extorts its members for money and brainwashes them. They claim that it has many of the hallmarks of a cult, especially:

   1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members.
   2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
   3. Its founder/leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
   4. It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
   5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society. 


How is this different from any other religion out there?  This argument could be made against any religion.
Logged
I mean, it would still suck, but at least it would suck creatively.

ruyi

  • Asleep in the boner patch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #75 on: 11 Feb 2008, 01:14 »

that has been said already. i think khar brought up the real issue, though:

It's ironic that people would make this about freedom of religion, since freedom of religion is something the Co$ hates. They own copyright on all their religious symbols, as well as holding patents on dianetics and the auditing process and so forth, and will ruthlessly prosecute anyone who attempts to follow the precepts of scientology outside of the Co$. Not brand them as heretics, you understand, but sue them, for copyright infringement.

Have a little read:

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/scientology/
Logged

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #76 on: 11 Feb 2008, 01:35 »

How is this different from any other religion out there?  This argument could be made against any religion.

Aside from the fact that Roo is completely right, have you ever heard of a lady named Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu? No? How about if I use her better-known name of Mother Teresa? What about that dude Gandhi?
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #77 on: 11 Feb 2008, 01:46 »

Dude I would not be so uncritical about Mother Teresa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position_%28book%29

and Ghandi? Ghandi was the utter antithesis of organised religion.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Switchblade

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 859
  • WTF was I thinking when I picked this name?
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #78 on: 11 Feb 2008, 02:48 »


Yeah, the point is kind of, uh, "Anonymous." Also, I don't think they're scared of the cops. I think they're a little bit scared of the Church. I would be.

By all accounts, the cops in most if not all of the protest locations wereequal parts amused and accepting of the protestors.

One of the core points behind the protest arrangements was that everyone should keep it civil, keep it legal, and respect the police. Something which the cops appreciated, no doubt.
Logged
ROCK MORE, ROLL MORE, LURK MOAR

öde

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,767
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #79 on: 11 Feb 2008, 02:52 »

I don't even know what Gandhi's religion was (just that he was totally rad).



HOORAY!
Logged

mooface

  • Guest
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #80 on: 11 Feb 2008, 03:16 »

so, uh, my two cents:

1 cent:  i don't understand what people mean when they say "hey Scientology is just a religion just like any other evil religion".  i don't get that.  does it mean that people shouldn't be able to protest it just because there aren't people protesting the Catholic Church?  because i think it is definitely okay to protest Scientology just as i think it was totally okay for me to get pissed off about my Catholic high school being forced to give all the money that was supposed to go towards building an auditorium to the Church's fund for defending the priests who molested children.  i think that it is good that people are speaking out against all the bad things that Scientology is doing and i think that more people should be speaking out against all the bad things that other older religions are doing. 
brainwashing people and taking their money is bad.  just because an organization calls itself a religion doesn't make it right.  and so these practices should be stopped because although people have the right to believe whatever they want, they shouldn't have the right to trick people and take their money.

2 cent:   also, i would like to say that i think scientology, although i don't know much about it, is pretty different from Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism.  although all these religions may have their flaws and may have been used as tools for doing evil, they all have the fundamental golden rule of "love your neighbor as you love yourself", just with different wording.  Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha... they all had the best intentions when they set out their moral codes (which mainly revolved around tolerance and understanding). despite how their words may have eventually been misinterpreted or covered up by other trivial rules and manipulations, i don't think any of them are really comparable to L. Ron Hubbard.
Logged

Spinless

  • Guest
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #81 on: 11 Feb 2008, 04:13 »

This raises a big issue. Prove that the church of Scientology is tricking people. Infact, prove that the Catholic Church is not tricking people. Prove the existence of a god, and I'll go and fetch Xenu, he's probably hiding behind my couch. The argument of faith still applies to the CoS. Even if they do use brainwashing techniques and scare tactics. Infact, most organised religions do. Nobody wants to burn in hell for eternity, do they?

Once people start using legal action against the CoS, the doors should open to use it against any organised religion.
Logged

redglasscurls

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #82 on: 11 Feb 2008, 04:16 »

I saw a flier about the protest in my building when I came in this morning and I thought it was a joke. It's fucking cold out, I don't care enough about people moronic enough to get wrapped up in scientology to ponce around waving signs in 20 degree weather.
Logged
Denn Du Bist, Was Du Isst   (you are what you eat)
also, related to burning stuff: a friend threw up on a hot water heater once, the vomit steam burned her face. awesome!

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #83 on: 11 Feb 2008, 05:15 »

This raises a big issue. Prove that the church of Scientology is tricking people. Infact, prove that the Catholic Church is not tricking people.

The catholic church has an open doctrine and theology. Anyone can read the bible, the apocrypha, papal bulls and countless works of Catholic and anti-catholic theology, philosophy etc. Anyone can go and talk about the churches doctrines with a priest.

The doctrine of Xenu, however, is supposed to be classified. Although scientology documents have leaked, you're not supposed to actually be told about Xenu, or thetans, or any of that shit till you reach OT III, by which time you have already sunk a significant quantity of time and money into the church, not to mention gone through the crucial 'clearing' stages of auditing, which basically consist of repeating untruths until you believe them enough to fool a lie detector. The Co$, in fact, doesn't even admit to this stuff. Scientology is sold initially as a sort of new-age self-help thing to help people with personal problems like depression or addiction. Then suddenly you find your mind is infested with alien ghosts and someones asking you to sign away your soul to the Sea Org for a billion years. It's like if the Catholic church presented itself as a social club, then after a couple of years of paying subscriptions they told you about original sin. It's not a question of whether the doctrines of either belief system represent ultimate truth, it's the fact that scientology lies about itself, and attempts to keep its doctrines and rituals secret. Talking from a purely moral perspective, would you be inclined to trust people who claimed to have found the solution to human happiness, and then expended massive effort to keep it secret, whilst charging people extortionate quantities of money for it?
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #84 on: 11 Feb 2008, 06:20 »

Dudes, any other organized religion is protested just as easily. Protestantism is protested because of anti-gay sentiment. Catholicism has been protested for the same, and it's been protested for other things for literally hundreds of years (that old boy Martin Luther would be boring as hell to read about otherwise). Point = moot (no pun intended).

The thing about the Scientologists is that you have to pay OUT THE ASS to learn anything worthwhile about your religion. That combined with their tax-exempt status are the reason the *chans are protesting, not because of anything else. It has to be a willing donation, not a "If you don't do it we won't pay you and probably will fuck your whole life up more than we have already".
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

The extra letter

  • The German Chancellory building
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #85 on: 11 Feb 2008, 06:23 »

I'm normally one for letting people believe what they want, but any "religion" that uses trademarks, copyrighting and the like as much as Scientology is a money making venture, not a belief system.
Logged
Hush, may I ask you all for silence? The dreamer is still asleep.

Jimmy the Squid

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,589
  • Feminist Killjoy
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #86 on: 11 Feb 2008, 06:34 »

I was actually going to go to the Sydney protest (I wasn't able to) however my reasons, though yes I am an atheist and yes I do believe that all religions should be abandoned, are a little more personal (I'm a psych. student. I plan to be a clinical psychologist once I get out of uni. The Co$ has several psychology/psychiatry hate groups which I have come into personal contact with. This is not a religion. This is a dangerous cult, dangerous in the way that Christianity hasn't been for decades. Saying that we should just ignore it because it is a "young religion" is incredibly naiive. Saying that we should be tolerant of it simply because it is a belief system that we don't ourselves share is, in my mind, fucking ridiculous. No idea is above criticism yet this is exactly what the Co$ try to do - squash any word of criticism.

I cannot honestly and candidly tell you guys how I feel because it would get this thread locked. Instead here is a link. Read it as well as the Rotten.com links that Khar posted.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865-1,00.html

You can say I am being intolerant if you like and you'd be right. I am at peace with that.
Logged
Once I got drunk and threw up in the vegetable drawer of an old disused fridge while dressed as a cat

Spinless

  • Guest
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #87 on: 11 Feb 2008, 06:37 »

I'm normally one for letting people believe what they want, but any "religion" that uses trademarks, copyrighting and the like as much as Scientology is a money making venture, not a belief system.

Why not? Nobody is forcing you to become a Scientologist. Infact, while I'm sure they use despicable means to hold onto their member, I'm pretty sure that nobody has been held at gunpoint and forced to make the first payment. Scientology is still a choice, just like most other religions.
Logged

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 931
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #88 on: 11 Feb 2008, 06:53 »

Gunpoint, no. Blackmailed? Yes.
There was a fantastic Louis Theroux documentary a while back about Scientology where he interviewed former members, attempted to interview current members (they showed up, but pretty much refused to answer any of his questions.)
Anyway, onto the blackmail. What the 'church' does is, they persuade you to let them measure your stress levels using primitive lie detectors.
They then persuade you (at this stage they are very friendly) to talk to them about yourself, and, as I assume you know already, talking about your problems can relieve stress.
What's the problem with this? They record everything you say so they can blackmail you in the future. And now, if you don't have the courage to back out, you basically have to keep paying them an increasingly large subscription to not tell the world your secrets.
Now, I assume most of you don't have secrets that huge that would destroy you if people found out.
But, I'm also willing to assume you're not an actor or businessman to whom a scandal would destroy your career.

That (along with what others such as Khar have said) is what is wrong with Scientology. Maybe it is a religion. Religions can break the law, and scam people just as well any other organization, and I don't see why professing supernatural beliefs should make them immune to criticism and, more importantly, persecution for breaking whatever laws they've broken.
Logged

Spinless

  • Guest
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #89 on: 11 Feb 2008, 07:10 »

On top form as usual, schimmy. If the Church of Scientology has indeed broken the law, and legal action is taken against the church, then what's stopping us from taking legal action against all churches?
Logged

Jimmy the Squid

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,589
  • Feminist Killjoy
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #90 on: 11 Feb 2008, 07:19 »

A misguided sense of religious tolerance tells us that some things, like a person's right to believe stupid, erroneous, primitive and backward things, are untouchable. You can argue politics, you can argue your opinion of a ruling of a soccer referee but as soon as someone says "I refuse to give my schizophrenic son medication that will allow him to live a relatively normal life because this book, which I will not let you look at, says so" we have to back off and respect it?

Fuck that noise.
Logged
Once I got drunk and threw up in the vegetable drawer of an old disused fridge while dressed as a cat

0bsessions

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,314
  • Change Is Taking the Seventh Dick
    • Quiki
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #91 on: 11 Feb 2008, 07:26 »

My only real contirbution to this is that I'm glad to know why the fuck there was a dude with a V For Vendetta mask at South Station yesterday.
Logged
I've decided to give up psychology and become a peacock
Quote from: Tommydski in Gabbly
JON MADE ME GAY

a pack of wolves

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,663
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #92 on: 11 Feb 2008, 08:03 »

After reading this thread, and the links posted, my initial reservations about these protests have gone. The CoS seems like a good target, not a soft one.
Logged
Quote from: De_El
Next time, on QC Forums: someone embarrassingly reveals that they are a homophobe! Stay tuned to find out who!

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #93 on: 11 Feb 2008, 08:18 »

On top form as usual, schimmy. If the Church of Scientology has indeed broken the law, and legal action is taken against the church, then what's stopping us from taking legal action against all churches?

Do you see Catholic priests taking people's confession secrets and going public unless you pay them off? I've never heard of that happening, and I know people who go to confession weekly.
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

a pack of wolves

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,663
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #94 on: 11 Feb 2008, 08:24 »

And if they did it would be extortion and people would be perfectly within their rights to report them to the police and have them arrested.
Logged
Quote from: De_El
Next time, on QC Forums: someone embarrassingly reveals that they are a homophobe! Stay tuned to find out who!

ledhendrix

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • *poke*
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #95 on: 11 Feb 2008, 08:52 »

This is from the protest in London, Made me laugh



My views on the matter... What Khar said.


Logged
Get off my land

tommydski

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,064
    • Pocket Jury
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #96 on: 11 Feb 2008, 09:03 »

I am intolerant of this non-word.

I had never considered the word 'irregardless' before actually. It actually took me like five minutes to work out what was wrong with it. Curious.

Peaceful protesting is fair enough and from the look of those pictured above, it's nice that they had a chance to dress up and get out of their parent's basement for a day. I do have a problem with organised Religion myself but I can't help but feel that we should be careful singling out one specific Church when they are equally crazy by varying degrees. I can think of several occasions in recent history whereby one Religious group has been subject to unusual and prolonged harassment and to cut a long story short in ended badly. Not saying this is the same thing, just that everyone needs to be wary of pushing a joke too far. It's unusual that I find myself defending an organisation that I have so much contempt for but I think there's a definitive double standard at play. If I'd started this thread about a protest against Christianity, Judaism or Islam, the reaction would have been quite different. In the past I have definitely been guilty of religious intolerance but I think I'm gradually improving as I get older. In the spirit of Devil's Advocacy, I think anyone would be well served to at least give the following a moment of consideration.

The main thing that struck me about this whole affair is that to my knowledge, Anonymous and 4Chan can hardly be called a bastion of moral decency. I think people should consider the distinct and very real possibility that the apparent menace of Scientology has been overblown and exaggerated by a truly gargantuan media that survives by feeding their audience bite-size chunks of high drama to keep them entertained and their sponsors happy. We all like to pretend there is an imminent and real danger, a bogey-man that we can project our own problems and insecurities upon. This is how scapegoats are established. Ironically, my knowledge of Scientology and Anonymous runs parallel. I only ever hear about either organisation when their actions are reported by the mainstream media, usually in a highly sensationalist manner. People enjoy creating half-truths and generalisations about things they don't understand and the media is always happy to report said opinions as fact. Remember the Fox News reports on Anonymous? How accurate were they? Would you say this is an example of sensationalism in the media? Is it remotely possible that reports on Scientology are equally hysterical on occasions? In order to inspire a sense of intrigue in their audience, thus increasing circulation and/or viewing figures and thus attract more sponsors? Is it possible?

For funsies, I'll throw out some sentences describing the two sides here and you can tell me which, if any, are accurate -

Scientology is -

1) A dangerous, brainwashing cult with an agenda of fear, intimidation, profit and world domination.
2) A bunch of pathetic rich people with some frankly fucking ridiculous beliefs.
3) A club for homosexual men who are unable to come to terms with their own sexuality.

Anonymous is -

1) An anonymous international terrorist cabal with an agenda of fear, intimidation, harassment and global unrest.
2) An online community of marginalised geeks with a perverse sense of humour that share an avowed interest in meta-ironic humour.
3) A bunch of pathetic Nerds who play anarchy between mammoth D&D sessions in their Mom's garage.

Are any of these statements true? Could I make a compelling argument that any of these are true, if it would create an interesting or sensationalist article? If I had an agenda to do so, possibly motivated ultimately by my desire for profit? Is there a chance that in the past, the Media has presented Scientology as far more insidious and dangerous than it actually is? As a whole, we seem more likely to accept that the media is full of shit when they are talking about something we understand. When it comes to something we find inexplicable or distasteful, we'll basically swallow anything if it sounds good. The sad thing is these scam organisations and Religions in general thrive on persecution. Putting them in the headlines every week is just raising their profile every time. We should ignore them like the pathetic bunch of nitwits they undoubtedly are.

If the people who are staging these protests have definitely given all of this due consideration, good luck to them. Protest away. Maybe next week we can protest the right-wing Christian administration that has essentially hijacked American politics. Maybe the week after that we can protest the treatment of women by Muslim extremists on basically every continent. Maybe afterwards we can protest the wars our governments have started abroad. In the current climate, protesting Scientology is akin to a man in a burning building complaining about having an itchy leg.

The truly ironic thing is I genuinely thought twice about posting this. Not because I am criticising Scientology. Think about it. As someone who uses the internet for business and recreation who poses more of a threat to me? Not Scientology, that's for sure.
Logged
Quote from: Ozymandias
One minute we're playing Mario Kart, the next my penis is in your mouth - it just happens.

Patrick

  • where did it cost?
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Used to be a cool kid
    • Troubador! bandcamp page
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #97 on: 11 Feb 2008, 09:26 »

They're already in the news every week because of Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, Will Smith, and many others.
Logged
My long-dead band Troubador! licks your gentlemen's legumes on the cheap

Johnny C

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,039
  • i wanna be yr slide dog
    • I AM A WHORE FOR MY OWN MUSIC
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #98 on: 11 Feb 2008, 09:37 »

It's a dangerous line to walk between criticism and intolerance.

Scientology is one of those things that as a religion is incredibly harmless. It's frivolous at best to mock their beliefs. However, the Church Of Scientology itself is an enterprise not only based on fear, intimidation, profit and power, it's an extremely corrupt example of it. I don't pretend to defend the organized structure of any religion as immune from error, but in the latter half of the twentieth century the Church Of Scientology has embarked on a campaign of harassment, legal bullying, psychotic behaviour against critics that is endorsed by high-level Church administrators and quite possibly murder by torture, which may have actually occurred on multiple occasions.

As an additional corollary, there are organizations like Free Zone who are essentially in the process of a modern schism from the main Church of Scientology. The difference is that where such things were often settled with years of physical conflict and cries of "heresy," it's now being settled with expensive lawyers and cries of "heresy."

And to confound my argument even further, any criticism is good, by the way. Criticism of a religion is no different from criticism of, say, a government. Certainly, there are some people out there who believe in the current American administration, but that doesn't mean that George W. Bush and co. are somehow beyond protest just because some people happen to support them. To suggest that Scientology shouldn't be singled out for protest not only negates previous public protests against the machinations of other religions, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Especially when, although because of their particular self-referential brand of humour the proceedings were a bit bizarre and occasionally cruel, a protest against a religious organization's practices is carried out in as peaceful a manner as this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this is a complex thing. No point in reducing it to an inaccurate situation of "It's a religion and this is intolerance" vs. "It's a cult and it's dangerous."
Logged
[02:12] yuniorpocalypse: let's talk about girls
[02:12] Thug In Kitchen: nooo

a pack of wolves

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,663
Re: Chanology?
« Reply #99 on: 11 Feb 2008, 09:45 »

If the people who are staging these protests have definitely given all of this due consideration, good luck to them. Protest away. Maybe next week we can protest the right-wing Christian administration that has essentially hijacked American politics. Maybe the week after that we can protest the treatment of women by Muslim extremists on basically every continent. Maybe afterwards we can protest the wars our governments have started abroad. In the current climate, protesting Scientology is akin to a man in a burning building complaining about having an itchy leg.

To an extent I'd agree, but nobody ever starts with the toughest things wrong with this world, the things which force you to question your own way of life. It's a first step, and I'm usually happy to see people willing to take to the streets over something. Once they've done it for once it becomes more natural to do it again, so maybe in a few years there'll be people outside oil refineries or army recruitment centres chatting about how their first protest was this. In fact, I'll be very surprised if that isn't the case.
Logged
Quote from: De_El
Next time, on QC Forums: someone embarrassingly reveals that they are a homophobe! Stay tuned to find out who!
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up