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[Emily]

Andrew Lloyd Webber painted the Phantom as a much more sympathetic character than he appears as in the original novel. Bear in mind that in the book it's not just a matter of "marry me or your boyfriend dies!" it's more "marry me or I level an entire city block filled with babies and My Little Parisien Ponies. And I MIGHT just make you watch as I drown and/or Shake N' Bake your boyfriend and the only person remotely near to a friend that I ever had."

Then the 2004 movie went an extra step further and TOTALLY made the Phantom an utterly sympathetic character DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE KILLS PEOPLE because the two men he's shown to kill are 2-dimensional leches. Well, one's a lech and the other's just fat. Therefore they don't really deserve a place in our hearts as human beings with lives worth living. Also, they omitted Raoul's confrontation of the Phantom in the graveyard (I also noticed in a recent touring production I saw, the three-part song by the mausoleum was cut short in some ways and they omitted many of the original lines which clearly show the extent of the Phantom's INSANITY and EVIL.) The part where Raoul, quite rightly, tells the Phantom to step off and let Girlie make her own decisions and PLEASE stop pretending to be her dead father to emotionally manipulate her into some pseudo-incestuous relationship with the supernatural. Girlie: Raoul has a point, you know. Phantom's response: "I will take BOTH you bitches down, now."

Stage-phantom is worth seeing for the stage-tricks alone. They DO use visual doubles during the first descent into the lair because there's no way ANYONE could move that fast backstage, the bit up on Apollo's Lyre OWNS when it shoots him back up into the rafters etc..

Tanz der Vampir has some excellent dancing and songs; and Total Eclipse of the Heart, only in German, and about Vampire Lovin'.
Carpe Noctem gives me grins of theatre-going glee and gave my friend nightmares about nightmares about pansexual vampire rape.
Please don't think I mean the shit English version of the above. The translation version of Tanz went over like a lead balloon, and rightly so.

[greenMonkey]

Oh, I must have read Midsummers a good dozen times by now. Every word that Helen says is pure gold. The Kevin Kline movie version has Rupert Everett as Oberon, as well, doing a brilliant job. I mean, he recites the lines like lines. Pausing where there are commas, and periods and other punctuation, not the end of the line like so many other actors who try to do Shakespeare do (poor Alicia Silverstone.)

I have to take issue with the comment regarding reading lines like lines, because Shakespeare didn't put those commas in.  They are added by editors when they compile an edition form the various quartos and folios.  While they are useful in exploring how to say the line, and sometimes great places to pause, they are simply one of several tools to use when performing Shakespeare and should be taken with a grain of salt because they are not Shakespeare's.  When reading and performing Shakespeare's verse, it is just as useful to consider the end of a verse line as a piece of punctuation.

Also, while I enjoyed that movie version of Midsummer, I don't think its great.  Other film versions of Shakespeare (especially Kenneth Brannagh's Much Ado and Akira Kurosawa's RAN) are better.

[jill the ripper]

But you still don't repeat the lines like,

Two house holds, both alike in dignity (PAUSE)
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene (PAUSE)
From ancient break to new mutiny (PAUSE)
Where civil blood make civil hands unclean (PAUSE)
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes (PAUSE)
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life (PAUSE)


With the pauses at the end, it seems... sterile. Normal poetry isn't recited that way, why should Shakespeare?
...then it's something about misadventures, but I haven't memorized that part yet.

[Liz]

Andrew Lloyd Webber painted the Phantom as a much more sympathetic character than he appears as in the original novel. Bear in mind that in the book it's not just a matter of "marry me or your boyfriend dies!" it's more "marry me or I level an entire city block filled with babies and My Little Parisien Ponies. And I MIGHT just make you watch as I drown and/or Shake N' Bake your boyfriend and the only person remotely near to a friend that I ever had."

This is so good. Everyone should read this whole post.

The original Phantom of the Opera book is quite good and you do really see the "real" Phantom much more than the movie shows. Susan Kay also wrote a book called "Phantom" abou the same character but it covers his whole life and not just his time at the opera house. The book is so beautifully written, it's one of my favorites. Somehow she manages  to make you pity and despise the phantom at the same time. Pity because he had a pretty shitty life growing up (naturally) and despise because the whole way he was doing horrible things to just about everyone and everything.

But anyways. Musicals! Let's get back on topic, shall we?

[jill the ripper]

I just noticed the rather blatant similarities between Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights and the Phantom.

Is that something that everyone knows about, or did I just stumble upon a gem?

You know, the whole crazies thing, for one.
And the weird father stuff.
And the killing people.

I think Heathcliff kills someone. But their personality types are very similar, none the less.

[Z2.]

With kids I get to see the kiddie versions of Joseph et Technicolour Coat, Annie, Bugsy etc... and you appreciate the effort the kids go to do what they do (although your ears HATE you).

I am going to have to go with the impromptu musical that occasionally springs our of weekly shows (like Scrubs - thanks to whoever brought that up earlier in this thread) as my current favourite musical show experience.

[Patrick]

I saw Joseph + Coat in London and it was pretty good. It sucks going to a show for the first time and you already know how everything happens, though. It makes me laugh at people being horrified at "The Passion of the Christ" though. I am pretty sure the Bible was pretty fucking clear on how things went down. Way to go, WORLD.

[Lines]

I think Heathcliff kills someone.

Not kill so much as let people waste away. But he did basically kidnap people and hold them hostage and was a general all around douche bag. I hate Heathcliff. Catherine too.

[Emily]

^^ God, yeah. I watched the 1992 movie the other day and I was so glad I'd only wasted two hours on that rather than reading the book when my English Major sister was pressuring me to do so.

Jane Eyre! Now there's a book which is ALSO a musical, so it's not an entirely off-topic post.

[Orbert]

Stage-phantom is worth seeing for the stage-tricks alone. They DO use visual doubles during the first descent into the lair because there's no way ANYONE could move that fast backstage, the bit up on Apollo's Lyre OWNS when it shoots him back up into the rafters etc..

I agree completely.  The staging was incredible, and the visual tricks were amazing.  Besides the ones you've mentioned, I also liked when Christine is onstage and just for a moment, you see things from behind her as she faces the audience.  My "Whoa!" was two-fold: that it was such a cool effect, and How did they do that?  But it was just a quickie and we moved on, no time to revel in it.

I'd forgotten that The Phantom really was a bad guy, way evil.  Obviously they had to tone that down a bit, or it wouldn't have made for much of a love story.  Choosing between the mentor who was helped you score the Number One Hit you've always wanted and the handsome guy you've known since grade school is a more interesting choice than choosing between the evil disfigured guy who kidnapped you and the long lost love interest.

[jill the ripper]

Jane Eyre! Now there's a book which is ALSO a musical, so it's not an entirely off-topic post.

Jane Eyre is one of the greatest books ever written.
It's an epic romance. Literally.

I was not aware it had a musical made out of it. I'm... a little uncomfortable with that. Not sure how I feel.
Heathcliff is a doucebag, and Wuthering Heights is one of the most un-romantic books ever.

The Phantom is easy to forget as a bad guy, because you want him to be good. Yeah, I guess.

[Lines]

Fantastic book, but I'm worried it'd be a boring ass musical. Except for Bertha. She's crazy enough to be interesting.

[Orbert]

Well, we did it.  We went and saw Cats last night.  The show's what, 20 years old now or something?  But better late than never.

I can see why it drives some people crazy, but come on, it was a good show.  The music was great, the dancing was great, the costumes were great.  Nothing like 20 or so people running around singing in four, five, or six part harmony, dancing the whole time dressed up like cats. 

I haven't seen a whole lot of Broadway musicals (two now) but if I had to guess, I'd say there was more dancing than most musicals, because of the whole thing with them all being cats.  A lot of extended dance sequences with cats all over the place.  The "orchestra" was two keyboardists, guitar, bass, and drums, so all the brass, winds, and strings were synthetic, but it sounded great and those guys could cook. 

A good time was had by all.

[RedLion]

I feel that Jesus Christ Superstar is the best telling of the whole "Passion" story, because it manages to treat Jesus as a "normal" man who let things get insanely out of control, while not ruling out the potential of divinity. I also like how it portrays Judas as a sympathetic character. All in all, it's the most human portrayal of the entire story, which I think is the best way to go about it (speaking as an agnostic who attended a Catholic school for 9 years.)

Thoughts on this musical?

[Patrick]

All I know is that I had this friend who was in college a few years back, and there was this Portuguese exchange student who would go around the school singing "JESUS CHRIST! SUPERSTAR!" in his absurdly heavy accent.

[Emily]

Cats really is more visually appealing that the songs themselves, even though the songs are fine, yay, whatever. But where it excels is in the costuming and dancing. And the set-design, I think.

Anyone else into Gilbert and Sullivan?

[vgaer]

Oh of course...

When your school does Annie it's good

But when anyone else does it?

I see how it is

In my defense, I only ever saw the movie plus our version. Plus, our Annie was played by a cynical eighteen-year-old, which makes it awesome.

I'd really like to see Victor/Victoria... Also Phantom of the opera.

I love how "La Vie Boheme" in Rent can be used to annoy uptight people.

[Orbert]

I feel that Jesus Christ Superstar is the best telling of the whole "Passion" story, because it manages to treat Jesus as a "normal" man who let things get insanely out of control, while not ruling out the potential of divinity. I also like how it portrays Judas as a sympathetic character. All in all, it's the most human portrayal of the entire story, which I think is the best way to go about it (speaking as an agnostic who attended a Catholic school for 9 years.)

Thoughts on this musical?

I agree totally on the portrayals of Judas and Jesus as making this movie work.  Judas did what he thought was right, given the situation, and didn't realize what it really meant when he sold out Jesus.  Jesus himself isn't sure about the whole thing.  It can't possibly be easy being His son, and be told that this is what's in store for you, and it's all in The Plan, so just deal with it.

I've seen a couple of productions of it, both pretty good, neither one super great, but not a waste of time either.  The local community college did it once, and a friend of mine was Judas and he was great. For Jesus, they were very excited to get this local guy who's operatically trained, which was just plain wrong for the part.  During "Gesthename", when Jesus was wailing, instead of a great raw, rocking voice, it was this awesome sweet opera tenor.  Great voice, totally wrong for the part. He'd sing most of the time in a pretty rocking voice, but whenever it was time to really wail, the opera tenor would come out and wreck the mood.  I know I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

The other production was a touring company I'd never heard of ("Mammoth Productions") and it was the day after I'd gotten all four wisdom teeth pulled.  It was nice to have something take my mind off the pain for two hours.  This was back in the 70's, and was the first time I'd seen a "real" stage show with wireless microphones and rock instruments in the pit orchestra, so it was pretty cool.

Back to JCS itself.  I always thought Judas got a bum rap.  If Jesus was always meant to die, and Judas was destined to be the one to bust on him, why is he so villified?  He was just doing his part.  He was doing what he was meant to do, and without him the whole redemption thing would not have gone down.  So give the guy a break.

[cupcakeonastick]

I grew up with the London cast of Phantom of the Opera on cassettes and had it memorized completely by about age six. my friend and I proceeded to put on the show with her old jazz and tap costumes almost every weekend for about five years.

Thus, my taste in musicals has been forever skewed and/or ruined. Since Webber is ridiculous and over the top with everything he does.


I pretty much like anything with song and dance numbers, though. I'm a pushover.

I want spontaneous choreography and songs to be an evolutionary trait.


Oh yeah, Gilbert and Sullivan are pretty much my favorites, as an adult. Hilarious and smart and brilliant musically. Doesn't get better than that.

[Cartilage Head]

 A really delightful musical is Bat Boy, partially based on the Weekly World News character. It is pretty hilarious, and contains some good music. The most appealing thing about it is how different it is from everyday musical crap.

[waterloosunset]

i've always been partial to ,,The Phantom of the Opera" myself. anyone else a fan?

[jill the ripper]

I want spontaneous choreography and songs to be an evolutionary trait.

So do I.

Like, a lot.
So much so, that my friends and I come up with song and dance numbers that we will (one day) perform, when someone accidentally gives us cue.
You know, like "Hey, what was the homework?"
THEN WE DANCE AND SING.
it doesn't work usually.

Funny Face is a great musical. Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire. Though, Astaire's not allowed to kiss anyone but Ginger Rogers in my mind. ;/

[Patrick]

i've always been partial to ,,The Phantom of the Opera" myself. anyone else a fan?

Good morning, it appears you were sleeping through a whole page.

[Emily]

I want spontaneous choreography and songs to be an evolutionary trait.

So do I.

Like, a lot.
So much so, that my friends and I come up with song and dance numbers that we will (one day) perform, when someone accidentally gives us cue.
You know, like "Hey, what was the homework?"
THEN WE DANCE AND SING.
it doesn't work usually.

Like so and indeed.

Cupcake, ditto on the Phantom-by-heart-at-age-six thing. I clearly recall my best friend and me putting on old floor-length evening gowns from 1976 (TOTALLY BALLGOWNS, OKAY?) and a 20-foot bolt of fake black satin for a Phantom cape and jumping on the coffee table and singing along.

[Liz]

SO AMAZING. I wish I had been there.

[RedLion]

That is...the most amazing thing I have ever seen. Both of those. Dear god.

[teh pwn queen]

I may of over looked it, but has anyone mentioned Moulin Rouge?  I know some may hate for the sheer audacity it has for being popular, but I love it!  The music is great, extremely clever to use modern music placed in a historical atmosphere, along with the original score, and the choreography, I've always loved that movie.

And then there's Cats, I love this one too, I didn't see the play, but it was one of the first DVDs my family owned and I would love dancing and singing to it.  I love background stories, which is basically what this whole musical is about, telling the stories of the Jellicle cats.

[dropstring]

The only Lloyd-Webber I can stand from beginning to the bitter end is The Phantom though I agree that the book is much better. I can listen to Cats at least part-wise without getting a wet rash but I just can't stand the rest.
My little guilty Musical pleasure is The Mikado. Ever since I helped with an essay on Gilbert&Sullivan I find myself whistling the songs. Sometimes they are accompanied by their friends from the HMS Pinafore...
Btw: one of the best (or maybe funniest) ways to pick up HMS Pinafore is listening to Picard and Data singing A British Tar in Star Trek: Insurrection

[duallain]

I watched "Across the Universe" last night, and damn it was awesome.  Love story + beatles + remembering the "electric Kool-aid acid test"  = win.

[muteKi]

There has been no mention of South Pacific in this thread which must be rectified immediately

[Patrick]

A GIRLY, WOMANLY, FEMALE, FEMININE DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME

[greenMonkey]

I recently saw a middle school production of Guys and Dolls.  The show wasn't that good but I realized that I appreciate Guys and Dolls more than I thought I did.

[jill the ripper]

There has been no mention of South Pacific in this thread which must be rectified immediately

For my third grade talent show act, I sang "Honey Bun."
And I still know it.

A hundred and one, pounds of fun...
;]
S.P. was my first musical. iloveitsomuch.
It has one of the best soundtracks ever.

[Ikrik]

Our school does a musical production every single year in a program called "Mainstage."  4 years ago they did Grease.....and now they're doing it again this year. I've gone in to see their rehearsals and they're......possibly the worst thing I've ever seen in my life.  The girl who plays Sandy keeps telling me "hey, I'm playing Sandy in Grease, it's the LEAD part" and complains about how people don't work.  Euuugh, High School musical productions are one of the most unbearable parts of highschool.

[Emily]

I saw a production of Fiddler on the Roof that just about made me keel over with the awesomeness.

On that note: Avenue Jew.

[cake or death]

There are three very important musicals that have been drastically underrated here:

1 - GODSPELL

2 - WEST SIDE STORY

3 - SPRING AWAKENING (its new, and won approx 2083402834 tonys)

i'm waiting for an M.I.A. inspired musical. i think it would be the greatest thing ever. hah.

[Emily]

The Scarlet Pimpernel musical annoys me because it's like the last stage in modern adaptations which have felt the need to further romanticize Margot's relationship with Chauvelin. It began with the '82 adaptation which saw a younger-than-in-the-book Chauvelin as Marguerite's spurned suitor, and then in the 1999 version placed them as formerly-happy-together lovers who then separated bitterly, and then in the musical it's like she still harbours feelings for him, of a sort. I'd love to see someone like Anthony Hopkins play the character and just twist Marguerite mentally without having to have any sexual tension--rather the influence of a charismatic political psychopath.

[jill the ripper]

Tommy, though a rock opera, is also rather awesome. Elton John in giant platforms make it worth watching, and then there's so much more.


Also, Wizard of Oz. Possibly the musical with the creepiest production history ever. From the Dark Side of the Moon soundtracking it, to Judy Garland.

Just... Judy Garland. Who scares the bejeezes out of me.

West Side Story is far more awesome than Romeo and Juliet because she doesn't die.
She gets mad. ;]

[sean]

2 - WEST SIDE STORY

Somebody made a thread right after this thread was created talking about how musicals sucked. In that thread we talked about the awesomeness of West Side Story.

Basically, no, it has not been underrated. It has been done justice.

[king dan]

[/quote]

(and some snobby douchebag beatles worshipper was standing right outside complaining about how they ruined the songs)
[/quote]

I think everyone who went had one of those sitting next to them attempting to ruin the film.

Also. I lurked. A lot. But...

Has anyone else mentioned
"the producers?"


I enjoyed all the versions of it (play, movie, newer play, newer movie (good, minus the ferrell)).

Who loves it? Who hates it?

[Ikrik]

I watched "Across the Universe" last night, and damn it was awesome.  Love story + beatles + remembering the "electric Kool-aid acid test"  = win.

We came out of the cinema grinning so hard after Across The Universe. it was great.

(and some snobby douchebag beatles worshipper was standing right outside complaining about how they ruined the songs)

Dude, that's cause Bono ruins everything.  He sings I Am The Walrus if i'm not mistaken.  The dude is....eugh, I dont' like U2, and I don't like him personally either.  I saw him a movie that was a tribute concert to Leonard Cohen, I'm Your Man or something along those lines.  And he ended up speaking for 3-4 minutes and sounded like the biggest douche ever.

[RaptorShadow]

I don't post often... (or at all!)

But on the topic of musicals... Jeff Wayne's the War of the Worlds. Some of the songs in it are amazing. It's also the only decent adaptation of that story that's kept true to the source, sadly enough.

[Lines]

There are three very important musicals that have been drastically underrated here:

1 - GODSPELL

I freaking hate this musical.

[Emily]

So I'm re-watching The Sound of Music for about the first time in a million years.

I think I've just fallen in love all over again.

[Zadorzky]

Fiddler on the Roof.

Enough said, eh?

[Beastmouth]

Jane Eyre! Now there's a book which is ALSO a musical, so it's not an entirely off-topic post.

Jane Eyre is one of the greatest books ever written.
It's an epic romance. Literally.

Have y'all read Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea?  It's about the first Mrs. Rochester, and it's written by someone who did grow up crazy in the British West Indies.  Or Sunshine Islands or something quite close by, at least.

[darthdavid]

I like musicals. Hair and Fiddler on the Roof are probably my two favorites. Wicked was OK but not earth shattering great like a lot of people seem to think...

[philharmonic]

I blame my two daughters for this but
"Good morning Baltimore"

oh and

"You are the music in me"

aaaajhfkjhfskjhlfjkdlj

[yankeebayonet]

I'm really, really surprised that only two people have mentioned Spring Awakening.
A musical wins 8 tonys and doesn't get any credit? I have to say it's my favorite musical ever, and rumor has it that Johnny Gallagher Jr is up for a role in Hair in the revival. I'm pretty sure that my opinion on best musical will change when Jim Sturgess gets out there as Spiderman in Julie Taymor's new musical.