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[Zadorzky]

Hey everybody,

I live in Marin, which is just north of San Francisco.  As such, I get a lot of 1.) Hippies 2.) Rich Old Boring White People 3.) Hip hop wannabes who insist that they're ghetto when their parents each make six if not seven figures, and 4.) Indie supremacists.  When I say a lot, I mean more than I'd like to see.

What I'm getting at here is that the fourth group, and some of the first, tend to have what is in my opinion a strange way of appreciating music.  My friend, let's call him John, fits into the first and fourth primarily.  He's a great guy, don't get me wrong, but he absolutely refuses to listen to anything that contains lyrics he doesn't agree with.  To him, music is a statement and if he doesn't agree with the statement he can't like the music, no exceptions.  I have another friend, let's call him Joe, who doesn't give a rats ass about the message or the lyrics as long as the music sounds good.  (I tend to hang out with Joe more.)

I am of the opinion that the lyrics and 'message' of the music is there as an OPTIONAL deeper level.  In that if you don't want to get into it, you don't have to.  One of my favorite bands ever is Tool, and they spout pseudo-psychotic spiritualist dogma that I don't even get, much less agree with.  I listen to Switchfoot, but am hardly religious.  Sometimes I like to look at song's deeper meaning, like with Poets of the Fall, but it's not essential at all...I only do it for fun.

Essentially, if it sounds good, who cares what the message is?  If it's not blatantly offensive, I don't think a song's message should prevent you from enjoying them as a music enthusiast.

Your thoughts on the matter?

[Thrillho]

What I realised after seeing the Foo Fighters live was that the thing that decides whether I like music or not is how much I identify, and this can be applicable in different ways.

I identify with Weezer because of the emotional distance and the very autistic nature of a lot of the lyrics.
I identify with Black Flag because I agree with the attitude towards the boneheaded drinking culture that exists at the moment.
Radiohead; the desire to push boundaries and experiment.
Slipknot; simple raw aggression put forth in primal music, we all need to cut loose sometime.

But if I only listened to stuff I agreed with lyrically, I'd be cutting out something like 25-50% of the music I listen to, because I've never wanted to kill a cop, I don't live in a ghetto or council estate, I don't drink or do drugs, I've never raped or murdered anyone...

It seems like this friend of yours needs to pull the rod out a bit.

[Spluff]

I very rarely even listen to the lyrics of the song. To me it's not about what you sing, it's how you sing it. If you truly believe in what you sing, your emotion will come through in your performance and that's what makes good vocals.

[KharBevNor]

I like to analyse the lyrics of songs, and most of my favourite bands have what I would call good lyrics. My favourite bands I generally agree with, for example Skyclad.

I still can't listen to 'Call Of the Aryan Spirit' by Nokturnal Mortum though.

[rynne]

In general, I don’t require that bands' lyrics exactly reflect my personal views for me to like the music.  I will draw the line at groups that are seriously advocating something completely odious, though, like race-hating bands.

More often, if a band's politics or philosophy rubs me the wrong way, it's not because of the content but because of the presentation.  I can't stand bands that are so wrapped up in disseminating their message that it becomes heavy-handed or overbearing.  But that's a much more subjective standard, an I'll-know-it-when-I-see-it kind of call on my part.

[feh]

I'm like your friend Joe. 97.3% of the time, I don't care about the lyrics as long as the sound is good. In fact, I probably don't even know the words to the majority of my favorite songs. I will qualify that by saying that if the lyrics really, really suck enough for me to notice them, that will turn me off to a band. And there are one or two instances where the lyrics are so outstanding that it makes the band even better (Robert Pollard, for one).

[a pack of wolves]

For me to really like an artist then I need to find their lyrics interesting, but I don't need to agree. My world view is world's away from that of R. Kelly but I find his use of mundane minutiae very interesting. I've got no interest in making paper but I still love a lot of grime, people like Skepta and Trimbal describe a world I don't know in a skillful way. If their lyrics are poor and I can hear them then I might enjoy them but I won't be incredibly keen. For example, I enjoy Slayer's music but the crappy lyrics but me off being an enormous fan, and although I do love Jane Doe by Converge I can't understand the lyrics but judging by other records by them they're almost certainly terrible. However, since I can't understand them it becomes instrumental music.

However, if I do agree with an artist's outlook then it will make me enjoy them more. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as mine, I love Chokehold partly for this reason even though I'm not straight edge. I may not agree with everything but tellingly my favourite songs are ones like Not A Solution where I am right there with them. I doubt I would enjoy that song nearly as much if I didn't agree and with the rest I can relate to their outlook even if I do like a drink. The same goes for Limp Wrist, Kill The Man Who Questions, Propagandhi, Submission Hold, Imbalance and a vast number of others, and this is about not just lyrical content but the way in which these bands operate as a whole since that's part of how they present their messgae. It's the reason I got into punk and hardcore and rejected metal when I was younger. I found the ideas promoted by hardcore exciting and still do, whereas metal might have had fast, heavy music which I do enjoy it seemed more concerned with fantasy than screaming about politics (in fact, I used to think it was pretty silly and for the most part I still do) so I gravitated towards the genre with the ideas that were more compelling for me.

[öde]

If the lyrics of a song make me think about something, or say something I agree with, I will appreciate the song more. If the lyrics are well written I will appreciate the song more. Usually if I don't agree with the lyrics, or they're just stupid, I'd feel uncomfortable enjoying the song, but recently this has changed a bit because I've been listening to hip-hop, the Ratatat remixes mixtape (volume 2) and DJ Danger Mouse's The Grey Album to name a couple, that have mainstream gangstary lyrics but are really fucking enjoyable. I do still cringe a bit when I hear 'I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one' but it's probably my favourite song on the album. Hmmm.

[Nodaisho]

I am not really sure how much it effects me (is that the right e/affect to use?), but I do tend to draw the line with some music, which is really a shame, because there are some awesome instrumentalists with philosophies I just can't stand listening to. I listen to stoner music, but I don't do drugs, though I am all in favor of legalization. I listen to some Christian-themed music, though I am not a Christian. I am currently loving Agalloch's cover of "Kneel to the Cross", though I am not sure I would agree with the band on what they mean by the song. (seems more like a song against people that just follow out of fear or because they were told to, but some people might take it to be against all Christians)

I don't like music that is heavy-handed with a message, I can tolerate it more if it is a message that I agree with, but even then, it can get obnoxious, to quote a Frank Zappa album name: shut up 'n play yer guitar.

I don't listen to music that is satanic, neither LaVeyan or actual "lets hear it for the bad guy" satanism, so that removes most black metal, and I don't know if I am really missing much, as my experience with that is limited to a Dimmu Borgir song and Holy Blood, but I don't care for either of those much.

[Zadorzky]

I like to analyse the lyrics of songs, and most of my favourite bands have what I would call good lyrics. My favourite bands I generally agree with, for example Skyclad.

I still can't listen to 'Call Of the Aryan Spirit' by Nokturnal Mortum though.

Good lyrics definitely add to the appreciation of a band, and bad lyrics detract, but I wouldn't say they make or break an artist for me.

And as I mentioned in the OP, music that is racist or hateful has little going for it other than the message, and when that message is so radically offensive to me and others I can't enjoy it.  I assumed that supremacist bands and the like were an exception to my "lyrics don't really matter" philosophy.  When they talk about killing all Jews it hits a little close to home.

But if I only listened to stuff I agreed with lyrically, I'd be cutting out something like 25-50% of the music I listen to, because I've never wanted to kill a cop, I don't live in a ghetto or council estate, I don't drink or do drugs, I've never raped or murdered anyone...

It seems like this friend of yours needs to pull the rod out a bit.

That's what I'm saying, that in my opinion we really shouldn't let lyrics get in the way of being able to enjoy the music, with racist bands being the exception.  I'm not going to pretend to be completely unbiased when it comes to race, I am guilty of stereotyping.  However, that doesn't mean I want to kill everyone who isn't white...and I happen to think that people who do are sick in the head.  So naturally I don't want to listen to music that is intended for them as an audience...

We've told him to pull the rod out, but we think it's so far up now that he can't get a good grip from the outside anymore 

I don't like music that is heavy-handed with a message, I can tolerate it more if it is a message that I agree with, but even then, it can get obnoxious, to quote a Frank Zappa album name: shut up 'n play yer guitar.

I fully agree.  I listen to Christian music, which generally contains messages I don't agree with being agnostic, but as long as they don't try to ram their faith down my throat I don't mind.  As stated in the OP, I think the best kind of music with a meaning is the kind that takes that meaning and places it in a deeper level where it can be reached by someone who is interested but won't stick out and irritate someone who is not.

[diablo_man]

well, most of the stuff i listen to these days is thrash, death metal and just a little black metal. i used to hate the extreme vocals, then i could ignore them to get at the guitaring, now i actually enjoy some of them. lyrics wise, sometimes i dont even want to know, especially with some of the DM and BM stuff i am getting into.
doesnt so much turn me off now though. i tend not to like anti christian themed lyrics, mostly because they stand out like a sore thumb(you know what i mean). certain songs though, get it right, and once it stops jumping out at me, i generally cease to notice it at all.

[imagist42]

I'm going to go with "it depends." For the most part I'm initially attracted to bands based solely on their sounds. Then the lyrics may become a factor; if they are especially awesome, I may favor the band more strongly than I usually would based on its sound. On the other hand, if the lyrics are, say, horrible awful murderous cheese (read: too-sincere-for-its-own-good cheese, not satirical cheese) and make me vomit in my mouth every time I think about them, I probably won't listen to the band quite as much because if I can imitate the singer's voice then I often wind up singing along when I listen to music and I don't want to have to kill myself for singing anything atrocious. But this is on an extreme basis; if they do not push the envelope and surpass a certain threshold level of awesomeness/awfulness, then the lyrics are largely irrelevant to me.

[Thrillho]

well, most of the stuff i listen to these days is thrash, death metal and just a little black metal. i used to hate the extreme vocals, then i could ignore them to get at the guitaring, now i actually enjoy some of them. lyrics wise, sometimes i dont even want to know, especially with some of the DM and BM stuff i am getting into.
doesnt so much turn me off now though. i tend not to like anti christian themed lyrics, mostly because they stand out like a sore thumb(you know what i mean). certain songs though, get it right, and once it stops jumping out at me, i generally cease to notice it at all.

Actually, I avoid black metal for just this reason. Maybe it's the baptist upbringing, but distinctly anti-Christian or anti-faith lyrics don't sit right with me and so I can't stand to listen to them.

[Jonny_Columbine]

I agree. while I am not a Christian, these lyrics seem ignorant to me. yes Christianity has don bad things, but it has done good too. although i still listen to black, death and thrash metal, mind you. take slayer. some of the most anti-Christian lyrics around. I love slayers sound, not their message. in general I will listen to something if I like the sound with few exceptions.

[Thrillho]

I agree. while I am not a Christian, these lyrics seem ignorant to me. yes Christianity has don bad things, but it has done good too. although i still listen to black, death and thrash metal, mind you. take slayer. some of the most anti-Christian lyrics around. I love slayers sound, not their message. in general I will listen to something if I like the sound with few exceptions.

The impression I get is that Slayer have a sense of irony about it all, though I could be wrong.

[diablo_man]

i dont think so. their songwriter(kerry king these days) is all about the anti christian stuff(he pretty much writes all of the stuff like that). if i thought he was keen enough to be ironic about it, he would also realize that chromatic wankery and whammy bar abuse do not make good solos.

i do like their riffs though.

[De_El]

Tom Araya and Dave Lombardo are both Christian.  They let Kerry King write anti-Christian stuff because he's not terribly serious and because they think it sounds cool. I mean, based soleley on the iconography used from their early records, you might have thought tthey were fascists or neo-Nazis, but that doesn't make it necessarily true.

More on topic, I gotta say I listen to lyrics less and less nowadays.  I mean, unless it's hip hop, I tend more to listen to the tone of the singer's voice and the pitch, or else the vocals are secondary to the awesome riffage/adorable bell percussion, whatever happens to be present.

[Ikrik]

Honestly I think it all depends on the genre and style of the music being sung.

In metal of any kind listening to the lyrics is usually a mistake.  There are some songs I can't listen to anymore because I searched up the lyrics and it completely ruined the song for me.  However some metal the lyrics can be interesting...I'm trying to think of an example but nothing is really coming to mind.  Any music that's either "social" or "political" is where you really have to listen to the lyrics.  If the lyrics are good and make sense, then I'm all for it, but....if not I generally tend to not like the band, regardless of their sound.  Spoken word is clearly all about the lyrics.  Rap and Hip-Hop is where the line tends to get a little blurred for me.  I understand that lyrics are the backbone of the entire thing and that if no one payed attention to lyrics we'd get more crap like 50 Cent and Soulja Boi (did anyone else urbandicitionary everything on that song?).

As a pretty general rule: if the music sounds good, lyrics are secondary.  But if the music is meant to supplement the lyrics and the lyrics are really stupid....then we have a problem.

[RobbieOC]

Lyrics are an extremely important part of music to me. It could be that I like languages so much. When I hear a band that has a great control over the words they're using, there is nothing better for me (unless the instrumentals can match the vocals, natch). For this reason, bands like the Decemberists and the Weakerthans are just sex to my ears. I seriously never get tired of hearing them. Instrumentals play a huge role in a song and the emotions it evokes, but when the vocals can push it over the top, damn.

As far as subject matter, I have actually been actively searching for stuff that kind of goes against my Christian upbrining, just out of sheer curiosity. I'm not necessarily looking for anti-Christian messages, just songs that showcase a worldview different from mine, because that's really the best way I've learned that I can grow both musically and, frankly, as a person. The instrumentals in a song don't challenge me as much as the lyrics do, because I know a lot more about poetry and writing and language than I do music theory.

[MadassAlex]

In metal of any kind listening to the lyrics is usually a mistake.

Any music that's either "social" or "political" is where you really have to listen to the lyrics.

what

[Zadorzky]

What really bugs me personally is when I mishear lyrics to a song, and then end up singing it wrongly...it's kindof embarassing when people correct you on that...

I dunno...I think it varies with the artist too.  In that some artists write more or less nonsense lyrics like the Red Hot Chili Peppers do in their song Dani California, or as I call it, Let's Name Every Fucking State That Rhymes.  Obviously with stuff like that it's hard to interpret the importance of lyrics, which leads me to believe there really is none...and other music in the more thrash genre has lyrics that can barely be heard, much less understood, not sure how Im meant to interpret that...

I'd say that only in songs/artists that depend greatly on lyrics and have strong emphasis on those lyrics are those lyrics that important.  This can be applied to racist music too...the whole point of it is in the lyrics, so they matter more and end up turning people on/off. 

[Ikrik]

In metal of any kind listening to the lyrics is usually a mistake.

Any music that's either "social" or "political" is where you really have to listen to the lyrics.

what

Alright, force me to make my sentences coherent. 
Metal lyrics tend to be either terrible, funny, or disturbing, so usually I don't listen to the lyrics at all.
Bands that have a firm political stance or are about social change usually have something to say with their lyrics so that's what you should pay attention to.  You're not going to listen to Immortal Technique for his beats.

[KharBevNor]

At least one member of Slayer is actually a christian, Tom I think.

Kneel to the Cross is a Sol Invictus cover. It's kind of calling for the overthrow of christianity and the re-instatement of paganism.

Man, I love metal lyrics. And they're not all fantasy at all. Depends on who you listen to, and what subtexts you're looking for. A lot of metal bands bury their message under subtext. Cattle Decapitation singing gore songs to promote veganism and Running Wilds environmentalist lyrics are two examples that instantly come to mind. But it doesn't have to be that subtle at all. Lots of my favourite bands have politics I can agree with.

Freedom? Fuck! People secure their freedom with a gun.
They have lost faith in everything, even in themselves.
Gun-propaganda from the 'land of the free' - The land of pain and misery!
We must be able to protect ourselves.
What!? Face a gun with a gun??? (!!!)
Violence breeds violence, death is the only outcome.
Hate breeds hate. Transform to chaos!

Advertise the product you make
Never give but always take
Kill and lie for security
Your shit on supermarket shelves to see

Instinct of survival

The multinational corporations
Makes its profit from the starving nations
Indigenous peoples become their slaves
From their births into their graves

The multinational corporations
Makes its profit from the starving nations
Another product for you to buy
You'll keep paying until you die

I've got a microchip on my shoulder
About this total surveillance society
Big Brothers gotten older
He's a serial abuser of technology
They'll implant the chip
And crack the whip
They have your details on demand

When your freedom is gone
There is nothing left
Total surveillance is Identity Theft!

And so on.

[pinkpiche]

Haha yeah I love Cattle Decapitation. Heavy and vegan.

Bad lyrics (like a bad bandname) can really make or break an artist for me.

[suitupletsgo]

I agree that it depends on the context of the music itself. are they trying to be serious or not? etc etc.

The Locust, for example, have some absolutely hilarious lyrics. as does Anal Cunt, but I'm sure that's nothing new to anyone.

The Locust - Well I'll Be a Monkey's Uncle.

dad, sister is on fire. shut up and get the marshmallows. dad, i don't like little brother. shut up and eat what i give you. let's go. this damn dollar has got to get me two. dad i'm tired of running in circles. shut up or i'll nail your other foot to the floor.

granted, there is no possible way to understand this song, but the lyrics are still funny regardless.

[Jimmy the Squid]

For me the lyrics of a song are incredibly important, though I suppose I place more importance on the vocals of a band than others might since I am a vocalist myself. I find the message of the music to be equally important to how it sounds, for instance: I can't listen to bands like Abyssic Hate or Destroyer 666 because, well I disagree with the white supremacist sentiments to a very significant degree. I also can't listen to a lot of Christian Music (as opposed to music made by people who are Christian), or indeed Religious Music because very often the messages within those pieces of music are ones that I disagree with most emphatically. While I can still hear the beauty of the music that has been written, I can appreciate the quality of the actual songs I cannot listen to the songs themselves because they make me very angry. Simply because I am opposed to religion so strongly.
I also do not like a lot of politically driven music because I don't like to feel I am being preached to. Obviously this is easier to take when I agree with the politics of the bands in question, Ignite for example, but even then it is only in small doses that I can listen to that kind of stuff.

In addition to the message of the lyrics there is quality to be taken into account as well. If the lyrics sound particularly silly, when they are meant to be taken seriously, or if they sound hollow and insincere, when they are meant to be earnest and heartfelt, then I will probably have less inclination to listen to the band. Obviously a lot of the music I listen to, black metal, has some pretty silly lyrics and some of those bands do expect you to be taking them seriously but I try to consider that it is essentially poetry set to music and in a lot of those cases the actual music itself, along with the presentation of the lyrics (i.e. the rhythm, the diction, the delivery), can save a terrible band. A good example of this is Cradle of Filth. A lot of their lyrics are some of the silliest things in music today but I enjoy the music so much and Dani Filth's delivery of the vocals appeals to me to such a high degree that I can overlook the silliness.

[Thrillho]

As far as subject matter, I have actually been actively searching for stuff that kind of goes against my Christian upbrining, just out of sheer curiosity. I'm not necessarily looking for anti-Christian messages, just songs that showcase a worldview different from mine, because that's really the best way I've learned that I can grow both musically and, frankly, as a person. The instrumentals in a song don't challenge me as much as the lyrics do, because I know a lot more about poetry and writing and language than I do music theory.

I don't know if this is in response to me either directly or indirectly, but I think you misunderstood me if it is. I wasn't suggesting I don't want to be challenged by music, it's just that so much of the anti-Christian music out there seems to be woefully ill-informed, pointless or ignorant. It's basically the opposite extreme to the happy-clappy shit that you'd see Ned Flanders sing on the Simpsons, and I'm not a fan of either extreme. I like lyrics that make you think, not lyrics that tell you how to think.

[muffy]

Good lyrics definitely add to the appreciation of a band, and bad lyrics detract, but I wouldn't say they make or break an artist for me.

I agree. And I also agree with DynamiteKid - no one likes being preached at through their music - when Bright Eyes put out 'When The President Talks to God, all the critics seemed to fall over themselves to herald it as intelligent and subversive, when it was probably one of the most trite lyrics he's ever done. The message was vaild, but the presentation came across as patronising.

For a while, I refused to listen to one band because they produced what I can only describe as the most offensively, stereotypically emo lyric I had come across at that point:
#You could slit my throat, and with my one alst gasping breath I'd apologize for bleeding on your shirt#
My logic was - if the lyrics were that atrocious, then the music couldn't be any cop, either. It was only a couple of years later when I heard them again without the context of those hideous lyrics that I actually gave them any credit for making music that I might like.

[Nodaisho]

Kneel to the Cross is a Sol Invictus cover. It's kind of calling for the overthrow of christianity and the re-instatement of paganism.

Man, I love metal lyrics. And they're not all fantasy at all. Depends on who you listen to, and what subtexts you're looking for. A lot of metal bands bury their message under subtext. Cattle Decapitation singing gore songs to promote veganism and Running Wilds environmentalist lyrics are two examples that instantly come to mind. But it doesn't have to be that subtle at all. Lots of my favourite bands have politics I can agree with.

What!? Face a gun with a gun??? (!!!)

I am pretty sure I said that Agalloch's version was a cover. I guess I really am not surprised that it is against all Christianity, it is much easier to hate a cause when you can convince yourself that all members of the cause are identical to what you hate, all christians are mindless bloodthirsty sheep and all non-christians are satanist baby-eaters.

And yes, I would like to face a gun-wielder with a gun, preferably a bigger gun, you can face it with a knife if you want, but I think you would be outranged. I don't need to face a gun with a gun, though, the gun isn't going to going to go off by itself unless it is an updated version of the T-1000.

That quoted line seems almost like a mockery of anti-gun arguments, but I honestly can't tell, and the rest seemed serious, though reading lyrics without actually hearing them said can be decieving. That is a very long potential argument, though, and one I have no wish to pursue.

My problem with political lyrics is that I don't fall in with any particular party, so while I may agree with some of the politics of a band, odds are very high I will completely disagree with something else they have to say.

[nigralovecadillac]

music is music man, if i like the sound than its a good song to me, but I take the time to see what had to go into the making. look at techno man, it takes 12 minutes to make a whole fucking song. what happened to talented musicians? the instrumental part of the song is important to me, but i think the lyrics mean a lot too. if the message is good it makes up for a that shitty drummer or whatever in my opinion. just because the lyrics are good though deosnt mean the band can suck donkey balls and still be good though, the composition in a whole is what matters

[look out! Ninjas!]

Only time I wouldn't listen to a band purely because of their lyrics is if they were spoken word. When I hear a song on the radio, it takes me half the song to even get the words to the chorus, let alone what they're actually talking about in the song. Its the music man.

[Johnny C]

I doubt - seriously doubt - that excellent lyrics have to be anything more than a clever combination of words. Your friend isn't wrong for approaching music from that perspective but he does seem to have a narrower mindset as a result, which is sort of ironic I suppose since political music is often about having an open mind.

We're having a debate in another thread and a point that has come up is whether or not being an asshole makes your music invalid. On Electrical, there was a similar debate about Bad Brains when it arose that H.R. from that band had said some homophobic things. I am pretty sure that your stance on those will dictate your stance on this. Personally, when I disagree with the lyrics, I don't think it's better or worse music. Just different.

[RedLion]

Lyrics that clash with my political views, or my religious beliefs (or, rather, lack thereof in the latter case) don't necessarily ruin the music for me, they just make it a bit more difficult for me to really and truly absorb and get into the music because there's a little voice in the back of my head muttering "bullshit." Lyrics, for me, are often just as important as the music. It's why I love Leonard Cohen. It's why I love The Doors. Without the lyrics, that music would still be wonderful, but it would be completely lacking in something that makes it distinctive and truly its own.

[Funk Thompson]

I don't have to like the lyrics to like a song - but all the bands who are my "favorites" won't make it to that list without at least a few songs I enjoy and/or "identify with" the lyrics of. 

Music needs to make something move - be that my feet, my heart, or my head.  Music that moves all three is the best kind of music - Flaming Lips, Madahoochi, Mofro, Wilco, Ween, Sufjan Stephens, Camper Von Beethoven...  stuff like that.

[Divide by Zero]

I doubt - seriously doubt - that excellent lyrics have to be anything more than a clever combination of words.

She was workin' in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer,
I just kept lookin' at the side of her face
In the spotlight so clear.
And later on as the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same,
She was standing there in back of my chair
Said to me, "Don't I know your name?"
I muttered somethin' underneath my breath,
She studied the lines on my face.
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe,
Tangled up in blue.

Excellent lyrics, truly excellent lyrics, are like great works of literature--You can spend forever just going over the words and the music looking for deeper meaning. She was working in a topless place, but he didn't stare at her chest. Was there really a spotlight or was it in his head? Does bending down to tie the laces of his shoe symbolize preparing him for a journey?

My mom must have listened to that song twenty or thirty times before she realized that the song itself was tangled up. The verses weren't in chronological order at all. I personally get the impression that one reason for that may be that the narrator is remembering her and little moments and incidents are standing out for him while he's doing other things. The song reads like a series of flashbacks.

Lyrics for me can be the only reason I enjoy a song. Bob Dylan and Tom Waits to name some obvious examples. Joan Osbourne has some amazing music too, but it's her lyrics that really shine for me. And the only reason I downloaded a Red Jumpsuit Apparatus song was because "Face Down" is about a man watching his friend get abused by her boyfriend and knowing that she'll get out someday, which I can relate to. Similar story with "Roll to Me" by Del Amitri. Whether it's because the lyrics are amazingly crafted or because they resonate with my personal experience, I might care about the lyrics enough to enjoy a song with a sound that isn't quite enough to stand on its own for me.

On the other hand, "In the Morning" by Junior Boys has lyrics that I couldn't relate to until long after I got into the song, but because the sound appeals to me so much I wanted it and therefore got it. MCR has really very poorly constructed lyrics most of the time that I've seen, and are frequently whiny, but sometimes I want that blast of guitars and drums without the demonic quality of metal that I can only tolerate when it's danceable. That's why I like Rob Zombie occasionally, and why I like a lot of the music I do; it's danceable. I agree with Funk Thompson--it has to make something move. I was talking with this kid at school who's a big Arctic Monkeys fan and I said, "Yeah, they're good, but they don't move me." And he couldn't understand what I meant by that. He doesn't listen to music to be moved. When he told me that I asked him why he listened to music and he didn't know. And that's sad.

And yeah, there are a few songs with incomprehensible lyrics that I stopped being able to listen to once I looked up the lyrics. I'll try to elaborate on that later; right now someone else needs to use this computer.

[Thrillho]

My mom must have listened to that song twenty or thirty times before she realized that the song itself was tangled up.

I only realised that when you told me. I'd assumed that like, he'd changed girls mid-song.

[RedLion]

I vacillate between thinking Bob Dylan is a literary genius who writes lyrics that are almost unmatched in terms of subtlety and meaning.

But then other times I feel like he's just a bum who writes free-association poetry. 

Help me, please.

[Jackie Blue]

The Hold Steady make pretty good music, but often they elevate a fairly generic bar-band-anthem into greatness through the sheer awesomeness of their lyrical content.

[johnny5]

i try to take the mood or goal of the song into context, if that makes any sense. for example if the artist is trying to make a point or the song is more serious, I do pay attention to the lyrics more. If it's a lighthearted song or just plain silly, than most of the time the lyrics won't make as much sense, but they'll probably rhyme pretty well. as for personal beliefs and messages, unless a band I listen to has a very objectionable belief that i don't agree with, i will still listen...(there's not a lot i dont agree with)