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[Jimmy the Squid]

surely no clear-thinking person would think that someone who is naturally non-violent would be interested in a videogame where you are rewarded for shooting people in the face or a film where a woman is violently degraded.

I'm a completely non-violent person. I've been a pacifist since I was old enough to consider it and I've not physically hurt anyone - excluding accidents and when I used to play rugby - since I was a nipper. In short, I absolutely abhor violence. At the same time however I enjoy video games such as GTA, CoD4 and a host of other games which involve simulated harm towards pixels as well as extremely violent films and literature.

I am entirely able to see the distinction between simulated/fictional violence and real violence. Saying that only people with violent tendencies (even if they never act on them in the real world) can enjoy violent media is nonsense.

One of my favourite novels is American Psycho and I'm entirely certain that I appreciate it for reasons other than a means of catharsis that stops me turning into Patrick bateman.

I would posit that we have differing views of "non-violent."

As for Japanese hardcore...I say this trying as hard as I can not to sound racist but Japan is a pretty fucked up place. Granted humans in general are a weird bunch but a whole lot of porn that weirds me the shit out comes out of Japan.

[20 jazz funk greats]

those parts are everywhere.
i have seen otherwise straightforward japanese hardcore with crying in it

[Patrick]

Can we talk about how awesome guro hentai is now?

[Ozymandias]

Even the straightforward sex in Japanese hardcore is like, the girl is scrunched up at the other end of the bed like she's hiding. It's creepy.

[valley_parade]

All this talk of Japanese hardcore porn reminds me of that NOFX song.


Then again, I think everything reminds me of NOFX these days.

[RedLion]

All this talk of Japanese hardcore porn reminds me of that NOFX song.

Japanese hardcore porn is washed-up and was never that good to begin with?

[valley_parade]

More along the lines of that EP track "Cool and Unusual Punishment".

[MadassAlex]

Can we talk about how awesome guro hentai is now?

Yes

Also, the idea was that those wacky Japanese assholes are actually good at porn, especially straightforward hardcore. Yes, there is some fucked up weaboo porn out there but at least it doesn't hide itself, it's all like, "If you like fucked up porn you will like this", where western porn is "ALL BETS ARE OFF, MOTHERFUCKER".

I stand by what I said about amateur porn, though. I really, really can't find a fault with it, morally or practically.

[muteKi]

Well, whatever. Apparently Cream Lemon had a really cool lesbian scene in the Pop Chaser thing, though elsewhere there's some wacked-out stuff in that one.

But man, that Pop Chaser scene was awesome.


EDIT: Apparently some of said whack content is a set in which one girl doesn't like sex because of a series of rapes in her family, so her counselor has her strip down in front of an art class and finger herself. One thing leads to another and there's a massive orgy.

All I've seen is that one Pop Chaser scene, though.

[Fenriswolf]

I'm pretty sure that people who have violent inclinations like violent things. It would be pretty silly to say that playing violent video games or watching violent films or listening to violent music makes people (who would otherwise be totally placid and friendly) behave violently. Obviously this is the argument that a lot of people make but surely no clear-thinking person would think that someone who is naturally non-violent would be interested in a videogame where you are rewarded for shooting people in the face or a film where a woman is violently degraded.

I disagree. (a) I like to make a clear distinction between violence and sexual violence. I enjoy violence in movies and games, I cannot handle sexual violence in any media. Also, just as rape can be non-violent yet just as traumatising, porn doesn't have to be violent to be degrading. And my problem is the really really subtle shit that's there not just in porn but all mainstream media teaching the general populace that women are weak, women are sexually passive, sex is something to take from women, all the things that allow rapists to walk away scot free because a women dared wear a short skirt/be drunk/go to a party/leave the house/be friendly with men/be related to men/exist as female

Even the straightforward sex in Japanese hardcore is like, the girl is scrunched up at the other end of the bed like she's hiding. It's creepy.

Not that I have extensive experience with Japanese porn but I have a borderline fetish for Japanese women (which I feel really bad about but I totally positively discriminate when it comes Japanese women) and have had friends send me lots of bits and pieces. Enough to agree that the inclination toward fetishising submissiveness and actual discomfort with sex IS really creepy

[onewheelwizzard]

OK guys, I've basically missed out on this whole debate, and I've read through most of the thread and there's so much here that I'm not sure I want to start addressing any specific issue that anyone has raised.

However, on the subject of porn, there is one thing that I want to say.

There is this website that I found, it is called ifeelmyself.com.  I believe rather firmly that it is the best porn to be found on the internet.  To the extent that I am comfortable recommending porn, I recommend it.  It is an exemplar of how pure and shameless erotica should be treated on film and it is probably the only porn that I have ever been fully comfortable enjoying.  Basically it consists mainly of tasteful films of women masturbating.  Every now and then it has a film of a woman being brought to orgasm by her real-life partner or close friend (be they male or female) going down on her or fingering her, but the vast majority of the videos are solo.  There are also videos in which these women speak to the camera or hold discussions with each other about why they're doing what they're doing, and what makes them comfortable with it, and stuff like that.  It basically bucks every uncomfortable and disturbing trend that is associated with porn extremely successfully and, I think as a direct result, is way hotter than any porn I've ever seen.

I don't even watch the videos anymore.  I just queue up a video, turn off the computer monitor and all the lights, and put on headphones.  Normal porn is all full of "fuck me!" and "oooh you're so big" and really silly-sounding and not-at-all-erotic stuff like that, but hearing a woman whose mind is genuinely in the process of being blown (hurr) is something that will send me completely over the edge, and to be honest visuals just get in the way of my imagination at that point.

Basically, if I had a point, it would be that it IS possible for porn to be done right, actually totally right, and that kind of stuff really is out there if you're lucky enough to find it among all the dross.

[morca007]

Hey guys, you know what's really sexy? Flat asses and giant frizzy hair!

[ruyi]

Guys, can we stop doing the make-a-joke-by-modifying-a-quote thing? I feel like it is just unfunny now. Am I alone in this?

Also holy shit onewheelwizard that is an excellent link. I'd only seen beautifulagony.com before, I didn't know they did other projects.

[onewheelwizzard]

Yeah I was going to talk about beautifulagony but I figured that the two sites cross-linked each other enough that anyone interested would probably find it on their own.  Also, as I said the visuals aren't what I'm there for personally, but the fact that ifeelmyself actually does do full-frontal whereas beautifulagony just does faces probably counts for something for a lot of people.

[MadassAlex]

Guys the idea was less about my specific pornographic inclinations and more the point that brunettes and amateur porn are totally rad.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Yeah but it's way more fun to imply that you've got yellow fever (yes, that was the most awful way I could think of phrasing that). Personally I find it interesting that as soon as someone expresses any kind of attraction to a person who just happens to be of a certain ethnicity then insane racism starts throwing itself around (I once went out with a Korean girl and all my friends were all "OMG YELLOW FEVER LOL" I am no longer friends with those people).

[MadassAlex]

Man people can accuse me of yellow fever all they want and I won't deny it because I am totally into brunettes and all you ever get in Asia is brunettes so that suits me just fine.

[Oli]

Damn yo.

[Patrick]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, well, if a girl's hot, she's freakin' hot, so why yap about it further? A simple "Damn, that girl is hot" suffices for me.

[muteKi]

ifeelmyself.com -- a big yes.

There are a couple other such sites in the same vein but mainly deal in photos and stills (e.g., MetArt). They're pretty much the only sites I can regularly stand going to that I would actually call porn.


Of course, I'm one of those sickos that finds most artistic nude to be incredibly erotic.

[Patrick]

I typically just go to thehun.net in search of fap fodder. Sometimes there's crazy fetish stuff (who the fuck decided fisting would be a good idea?), sometimes there's just plain retarded crap that makes you go "BAWWWW", a lot of times there's such amazing things as the site where they "pour some fo'ties on dat ass for the homies who ain't here". The overwhelming majority is of the above variety, which is supremely entertaining, but of little to no erotic value.

Every once in a while, though, you get a true gem that makes for some primo fappin'.

[muteKi]

Could we just take one second and contemplate that we are exchanging porn links on a webcomic forum?

Guys we are such huge fucking nerds.

I've been waiting for a while for Jeph to say something about this thread.

[jhocking]

Things have veered wildly into a creepy place.

[Dimmukane]

Yeah, Patrick's last comment has officially creeped me out.  I wish I didn't know what he looked like.

[Patrick]

Mission accomplished.

[Ozymandias]

PORN

[muteKi]

I don't even care if that was supposed to be a gigantic isopod; it's hilarious anyway (as a no-hotlinking image).


And now to close up this with the most appropriate actually out-of-context manga quote, from Rosario + Vampire, this:

[ruyi]

Aw man muteKI and Patrick please stop being creepy.

[Patrick]

HOLY FUCK I AM TURNED ON RIGHT NOW

[muteKi]

Actually in all honesty that is one of the least sexual moments in the manga. I wonder if an "official" translation would have put it that way...

[Slick]

[ruyi]

slick you are my favorite porn

[Slick]

And you are mine, roo, you are mine.

[ruyi]

The amusing thing is that James is actually, genuinely internet famous for his pornography.

(yes, i am referencing his fb note)

[Slick]

So I hosted a potluck with my housemate and another friend the other night. One of the friend's friends comes in, introduces himself, and says "Don't I know you from wetriffs.com?"

Moral of the story: do porn.

[RedLion]

This thread has taken quite an interesting turn in less than a day.

[Fenriswolf]

Oh my god you guys are great. I was going to respond to various posts and then there was too much funny so I am going to express my general amusement at your collective debase... ness? Ity? Whatever. Using the word "fap" like that is so wrong yet so hilarious. No, I have nothing of my own to contribute

[Blue Kitty]

Ban on "extreme porn" becoming law next week
sorry if it doesn't fit the motif, didn't think it needed it's own thread.

[Elizzybeth]

What I don't understand is how this law passed before people had asked questions like "why is it illegal to have a photograph of someone doing something that's completely legal (if consensual)?"  I mean, I personally find sexual violence distasteful, but the arguments behind the law sound remarkably similar to the people who condemn, say, violent video games because people who play them commit crimes.  Certainly, people who rape are going to be attracted to this kind of pornography because they're attracted to rape initally; it's ridiculous to claim that violent porn makes people go out and rape.  This sounds to me like the kind of law that'll be repealed in a few years, once people get enough distance to say, "Man, that totally seemed like a good idea at the time..." But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

[Fenriswolf]

Weird weird weird. I would totally support a ban on exclusively pornography that featured rape/non-consensual sex acts, even if it's "just acting". But nothing else. Tying up, beating, burning... those sorts of things can be extremely pleasant for both giver and receiver, and usually pornographers of this ilk make an effort to show that it is consensual and mutually pleasurable with interviews with passionate subs and suchlike. But I have no time for watching someone even pretend to rape someone else. I don't care if that's how you get your jollies, I have no problem banning that

[Ozymandias]

How far does that extend? Do you ban Deliverance? How about A Clockwork Orange? How about I Spit on Your Grave? At what point do you draw the line and say "this is what should be banned, this is porn, not something people should watch"?

Of course, we're talking about the UK here. Clockwork Orange was banned. So was I Spit on Your Grave, the uncut version still having never been legally released in the UK, so the point is irrelevant in this case. But it's something I find hard to just...say is so because it's so.

[Patrick]

Nobody said Britain had a shining record for passing reasonable laws.

[Peet]

Clockwork Orange was banned.

At the director's request. It was released a year after he died.

[Ballard]

Wait, it was made legal in 2000?

[a pack of wolves]

It was never illegal, but Kubrick held the rights and withdrew the film after football hooligans took to dressing like Droogs when out for a ruck so he prevented any distribution of it within the UK.

[Darkbluerabbit]

I suppose the fact that someone made "A Clockwork Orgy" didn't help.

[Fenriswolf]

How far does that extend? Do you ban Deliverance? How about A Clockwork Orange? How about I Spit on Your Grave? At what point do you draw the line and say "this is what should be banned, this is porn, not something people should watch"?

I'm talking about in porn, not for dramatic effect.

Frankly Clockwork Orange the movie (as opposed to the book) made me really uncomfortable but I wouldn't ban it. Hell, The Hills Have Eyes really pisses me off (zombies! Plus rape! Yay!) but I still wouldn't ban it. I'm very anti-censorship.

BUT I would happily ban rape in porn. Non-consensual acts or acts displayed as non-consensual. Women and men both can be tied up and beaten and fucked and have it still be consensual. I really don't think it's a grey area at all - though truly, plenty of people on both sides want to make it a grey area.

[öde]

Despite being 'anti-censorship' your argument for banning it isn't really an argument, but your opinion. Rape can basically be replaced with any kind of sexual act(s), or anything really. You're perfectly welcome to this opinion, and I can imagine legitimate reasoning behind it, but all I'm seeing is 'I don't like it and I'd like it banned' .

BUT I would happily ban homosexuality in porn. Homosexual acts or acts displayed as homosexual. Women and men both can be screwed in the ass and have it still be straight. I really don't think it's a grey area at all - though truly, plenty of people on both sides want to make it a grey area.

Have you seen the rape scene in Irreversible? If so, what do you think of that?

[Fenriswolf]

What's only my opinion? I haven't actually made an argument, just said I'd happily ban it. My argument is that the only circumstances in which rape fantasies are acceptable is in private, and that it does not translate to film. And no, I do not buy the idea that men (or women) who fantasise about perpetrating rape can use porn as an outlet. True, my argument is simply an opinion, but I haven't seen any arguments that are anything but opinion.

No, I haven't seen Irreversible but again I am talking about the pornography genre only. Finally, your argument that it could be replaced by any sexual act sounds remarkably similar to the argument that making homosexual marriage legal leads to bestiality and pedophilia becoming legal. We should be able to be discretionary, we can't always cater to the lowest common denominator.

[Slick]

The point was that you hadn't made an argument, not that you were wrong. We know going to homosexuality there is absurd, that's the point. You haven't explained why rape in porn is bad, just said you don't like it, and we all know there are people who don't like homosexuals.
You've also said that you think rape fantasies are only acceptable in private, but you still haven't said why, which is crucial to discussion. Why should we be allowed discretion, why is rape worse/better than a dude doing a dude up the bum?

For example, I would consider supporting a ban on rape in porn because, besides my personal view that it's deplorable and degrading, I believe that seeing rape in such a context can give it some validity in the mind of a someone viewing, and could make it easier for such a person to later rationalize rape when they see someone they want but can't have.
That's something of an argument as to why rape porn is a negative influence on society to a degree where it might need to be banned.

A bunch of people stating opinions is kind of lame, we need to know why you feel the way you do for anything interesting to come of discourse. Opinions should have some thought process behind them.