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[Dimmukane]

I have seen evidence to the contrary, is all I'm sayin'.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

man, i am pretty tired of snobby PC gamers saying all the ridiculous things that they like to say.

congratulations, Joe PC, you have an opinion! it's not necessarily right, get over yourself.

"using a mouse is way more accurate than a joystick." Well, then using your own logic i could say that if you had a PC gamer and console game who were equally skilled at Game X standing next to each other, the console gamer would be the more talented one, because his platform of choice was more difficult to master. right? right.

anyway, joystick sensitivity can be adjusted just like a mouse can. honestly, as far as controls go there is no difference between the two platforms besides personal preference (and the sheer number of buttons, obviously).


now, don't think that i'm the other side of the spectrum either (a console elitist/fanboy/whatever). i play games on both, i just generally don't play shooters on PC because i am pretty shit at it, and also i don't have a proper computer chair so it's literally a pain in the ass. i use my PC for stuff like Civ4 and Spore because i can't play those on my 360 or PS3.

the one exception is STALKER, which i caved in and bought because i heard so many good things about it.


bah sorry for the off-topic rant. it's just that all day long i hear "PC gaming is teh shitzz, fukin n00bzorz!!!11!!one!!!1!" and there's only so much i can take.

[Melodic]

I think we're just going to have to live with SHARK's inherent elitism, but he's still partially true. I haven't seen anyone with a controller come close to having the precision of even an average gamer with a mouse. I'm not saying one is better than the other, simply that it seems to me that it's absolutely impossible to have that same level of high sensitivity AND accuracy in a joystick setup. Shadowrun (GFWL) was a great example of this because it actually limited the maximum sensitivity allowed on the PC's end to level the playing field.


ANYWAYS, Easter egg in the second stage of the Subway level of No Mercy.

[est]

Man, now I am getting a near-overwhelming urge to go buy L4D on the 360 and practice until I am as good at it on the 360 as the pc.

[Dimmukane]

I am pretty average on PC, and I can say with confidence that I am better on the 360.  Part of this is because I have steady fingers, but not steady hands, so recovering my aim from kickback is easier for me with a controller.  Also, my finger reaction time is better than my wrist reaction time.  There are other reasons, I'm just saying that I am definitely better on consoles than I am on PC's.  Case in point: I did most of the Portal puzzles in the first try (also my first playthrough) on the 360.  I ran into trouble towards the end of the PC version because I couldn't move my mouse fast or accurately enough (limited by desk space).  Also, I died less on my run through of all the Half-Life 2 episodes because I was following the hunters and gunships better.

TL;DR, sensitivity doesn't do dick for improving my game, console or PC.



LOOK OUT!  WITCH!

[Scandanavian War Machine]

I am pretty average on PC, and I can say with confidence that I am better on the 360.  Part of this is because I have steady fingers, but not steady hands, so recovering my aim from kickback is easier for me with a controller. 

i'm exactly the same way.

[Spluff]

Consoles have autoaim, so in general it would be easier to play well with it than with a PC, but I'd argue that a console has a much lower skill ceiling due to the fact that it's precision is very limited.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

consoles don't have autoaim.
games have autoaim. and only some games, at that.


this is relevent because this is the L4D thread and Valve games do not have autoaim. at least i don't think they do; correct me if i'm wrong here.

[est]

You guys realise that the "joysticks" are analog thumbpads and have pressure sensitive controls so that they move faster the futher out you press them, right?  It's not like they're running around with fucking Atari-style joysticks to aim, these things are pretty advanced and a lot of people can use them very well.  I mean, I am not one of them, but you can't just say "oh, no-one can use these things as well as a mouse", it is a ridiculous thing to say.

[Alex C]

I hate the "logic" on both sides of the argument. Like the people who insist that the pc version is less fun because it's just point and click that way.

[Melodic]

I'm not trying to be an elitist. Far from it, since I play both console and PC games and like both fairly much.

I think that the mouse is a more precise instrument. I think it is easier to control to a better degree than games on either the Xbox 360 or the PS3 (the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers). I'm not debating whether there are people that could kick my ass playing PC versus 360, but I'd argue that just because one driver in a drag race can beat the other doesn't necessarily mean his car has more power under the hood.

This thread has officially devolved into shit. I'm getting insanely tired of PizzaSHARK's constant elitism, and in another page of this BS it'll break down to dickery all around. Let's get back to L4D.

[KvP]

(the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers)

bahahaha.

[Dimmukane]

I'm not picking sides either, I'm just fighting off dicks with my words.  Dicks.


Anyways, in terms of more content, I think it'd be cool to have some kind of swamp area with lots of fog and shallow water.  Just throwin' my two cents out there.

[est]

Oh shit, I forgot to hit "post" in here earlier. Ok, here goes again.

So anyway, back to L4D.  I enforced upon myself a brief hiatus last night.  Not because I didn't want to play, but because I thought that I probably shouldn't play every night this week.  I'll probably play some more this week and definitely over the weekend, and I am still trying to figure out a way to get my short-ass mic cord to plug in and be usable.  I suspect some kind of extension cord will be involved because there is nothing wrong with the headset itself, just the length of the cable (or lack thereof).

[Spluff]

consoles don't have autoaim.
games have autoaim. and only some games, at that.


this is relevent because this is the L4D thread and Valve games do not have autoaim. at least i don't think they do; correct me if i'm wrong here.

It does, and you'll find 95% of console games do.

But anyway, this game is awesome.

Left 4 Dead,

[PizzaSHARK]

You guys realise that the "joysticks" are analog thumbpads and have pressure sensitive controls so that they move faster the futher out you press them, right?  It's not like they're running around with fucking Atari-style joysticks to aim, these things are pretty advanced and a lot of people can use them very well.  I mean, I am not one of them, but you can't just say "oh, no-one can use these things as well as a mouse", it is a ridiculous thing to say.

That's true, and that's probably why it's difficult to make a direct comparison.  Google can't come up with any kind of specifications for the Xbox 360 gamepads; it's possible that the specs were never released to the public, though I can't see why M$ wouldn't.  Regardless, I strongly doubt that any gamepad can compete with a 4000dpi mouse

Ultimately it doesn't matter when it comes to butchering zombies en masse, since console gamers will always adapt to the situation (pretty impressive, IMO, because I can't stand gamepads for most game genres.)  I do admit you guys are pretty damned funny, carrying on and arguing with each other while still blaming me - always nice to come into work and get some free entertainment 

[Nodaisho]

(the N64 was, of course, the pinnacle of modern gaming controllers)

bahahaha.

My friend likes his because he can play one-handed for the most part.

I used to be really good with PS2 controls on shooters (especially Battlefront), but I have gotten somewhat worse, since I play shooters almost exclusively on PC now. It just feels much more intuitive for me now, for shooters, at least. I prefer dual-analog for racing games, I'm not much good at racing games on the PC.

Pizza, you make it sound like we are angry with someone. I really don't think we are, though your smugness does get annoying, like any new guy acting big does.

[PizzaSHARK]

I'm just here mostly for the free entertainment, since work is pretty slow from about midnight to five

As far as gamepads go, I really liked the GCN controller.  It felt well-balanced, and a lot of developers did some amazing things with it - Metroid Prime's control scheme rocked.

[Nodaisho]

I don't have much experience with it for FPSs, but it was decent for Enter the Matrix. It did have one big flaw, though. The little yellow stick was too small to be used for dual analog controls easily, and dual-analog is the best setup I have found, as it allows for easy strafing.

[PizzaSHARK]

I never quite got the hang of the dual analog deal, though I gimped my way along with a roomie when he was in the middle of a Halo 2 orgy and needed a partner for TDM.  I will admit that I found San Andreas a lot more enjoyable with my venerable old Logitech dual analog gamepad (essentially just a PSX/PS2 dual shock clone), though flying was still impossible.

The little c-stick was an oddity (but what about the GCN wasn't odd, with the giant mutant A button and all), but for most games I played, it worked out well enough

[Nodaisho]

Dual analog took me a while to get used to, I was used to early Ratchet and clank/Jak and daxter controls, but now I find it confusing to go back to those, it is so much easier to dodge fire, though if I hold down the R2 just about constantly on the earlier R&C games, it puts you in circle-strafe mode.

[KvP]

First DLC announced. Will add a new "survival" game mode (if it's anything like other games it will probably be a prolonged wait for rescue that never comes) and 2 new Versus "movies". As someone who doesn't like playing public games, I'd rather they have more campaign "movies", since finding 8 people to play at any one time is such a hassle.

Also, the Source SDK will be released.

[Surgoshan]

Actually, I'd guess "survival" is a time thing against virtually unceasing hordes.

[SilentJ]

This game.  It is so good.

It is so good it even has rap artists on edge.

Sound advice, I must say.

[Boro_Bandito]

Oh yeah, I finally got this game, anyone who's up for some Expert run-throughs my gamertag is Wickedfall. I think I've got Jimmy on my friends list but no one else so far.

[ackblom12]

Phil, Live or Steam?

[Boro_Bandito]

Xbox Live.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

man, not only did my 360 break last week but, even if it hadn't, i just moved into a new house with no internet.

lame

[SilentJ]

Oh, I forgot.

Gamertag is SilentJ1018 if anybody needs another partner for online play.

[Dimmukane]

DRUNK POST:


It's 25$ on Steam this weekend.  GET IT NOW SDPAPRHG WERPDLK ESL:DKF SAA LWKJHETGSDLK:H BRAAAAAAAAAAAIIINNNSSSSSSSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[est]

Yeah I just came in to say it was $25 this weekend but I guess you beat me to it.  Saying it anyway to bump the thread, because if any of you guys don't got it you should get it.

[0bsessions]

Is anyone else here actually running the game on PC, as opposed to 360? I'm really tempted to spring for the Steam deal, but I seem to recall most people I know are playing it on XBL. That said, I'm dying to really play this game and that $25 deal is extremely hard to pass up, especially since they've extended it to tomorrow. Anyone else?

And if any of you are playing it on PC, how well would the following run it:

2.51 ghz dual core AMD processor
3 gigs of ram
nvidia GeForce 8500 GT with DirectX 10

I know the recommended specs are definitely lower than that, but if I'm going PC, I want it to look as good as it does on my 360's demo.

[Dimmukane]

Fairly well.  You probably won't be able to have any AA enabled, and you'll probably have a couple settings on medium, but it should run reasonably fast.  If you could, I'd spring for a slightly newer card with more VRAM, but that one'll do.

[0bsessions]

Addendum, I couldn't figure out which size RAM 8500 I had, but I found the box, it's a 512 MB version.

[est]

It also depends on how well you can play fps games on a console.  For me the answer is "abysmally" so Steam is pretty much the One True Way.

[Surgoshan]

L4D plays pretty darn well on the console.

[Boro_Bandito]

I have to say it really does play well on the console. Once you're used to console shooters, that is. I haven't played an FPS on the computer for quite a while, so actually I'm betting I'd suck really hard if I tried playing it on the computer right now.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

have you ever seen a blind manatee try to climb a tree?


that's what it's like when i try to play shooters with a mouse and keyboard. it's hilariously pathetic.

[Surgoshan]

have you ever seen a blind manatee try to climb a tree?


that's what it's like when i try to play shooters with a mouse and keyboard. it's hilariously pathetic.

Yeah... you're quite wrong.

I still feel that mouse&boarders will always have the advantage, because the mouse provides a perfectly natural analogue input.  You want to do a 180, a 90, a 45... easy.  You want to spin fast, slow, fine.

The console cannot match that.  It has the button for a 180 and everything else is still roughly digital. 

It's much better than it used to be, but I still believe the mouse/keyboard is a better input system for an FPS.

Halo notwithstanding.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

wow you completely missed the point of that post.

[est]

Yeah, controls are extremely subjective.  I am really shit at fps games on consoles, so "L4D plays pretty darn well on the console." means jack shit to me, who would still not be able to play it.  Likewise SWM said he is shit at playing it on the KB+mouse, so there's no point in calling him wrong about it, it's just his experience.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

exactly.

PC is probably "better" whatever that means, but that does not change the fact that i am dogshit horrible at it.

[Fatstrings]

man, i am pretty tired of snobby PC gamers saying all the ridiculous things that they like to say.

congratulations, Joe PC, you have an opinion! it's not necessarily right, get over yourself.

"using a mouse is way more accurate than a joystick." Well, then using your own logic i could say that if you had a PC gamer and console game who were equally skilled at Game X standing next to each other, the console gamer would be the more talented one, because his platform of choice was more difficult to master. right? right.

anyway, joystick sensitivity can be adjusted just like a mouse can. honestly, as far as controls go there is no difference between the two platforms besides personal preference (and the sheer number of buttons, obviously).


now, don't think that i'm the other side of the spectrum either (a console elitist/fanboy/whatever). i play games on both, i just generally don't play shooters on PC because i am pretty shit at it, and also i don't have a proper computer chair so it's literally a pain in the ass. i use my PC for stuff like Civ4 and Spore because i can't play those on my 360 or PS3.

the one exception is STALKER, which i caved in and bought because i heard so many good things about it.


bah sorry for the off-topic rant. it's just that all day long i hear "PC gaming is teh shitzz, fukin n00bzorz!!!11!!one!!!1!" and there's only so much i can take.

I'm sorry if this has been answered but a mouse will always be more accurate than a joystick, at least until the upload the movement rate of joysticks a bit
with the current technology joystick sensitivity can be changed, but they still aren't as accurate as mice, mouse sensitivity changes the rate at which it moves, a higher joystick sensitivity makes it move at higher increments causing it to be less accurate and have larger deadspots

sorry to bust your bubble bud, but it's not just a preference it's technology

[Scandanavian War Machine]

sorry to bust your bubble bud, but it's not just a preference it's technology

fuckin sig'd

[est]

Yeah, because having a higher DPI on your mouse matters more than skill.  It must be true, I read it on the side of a gaming mouse box!

Snark aside, I think everyone knows the technical details involved.  Some people just prefer to play on X rather than Y because it feels more comfortable for them.

[est]

Also wtf is up with noobs talking smack so much lately.  What is happening to the youth of the world.

[est]

Oh, why hello pagebreak.  Fancy meeting you here.

[est]

If you're not doing anything later you want to hang out?  Maybe get a cup of coffee?

[Boro_Bandito]

I'm just wondering why he's responding to a post made back in freakin' November.

[Melodic]

Get the fuck away from my pagebreak you fucking fuckster.