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Author Topic: DWARF FORTRESS  (Read 99581 times)

Stryc9Fuego

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DWARF FORTRESS
« on: 18 Jul 2008, 02:20 »

I was checking and noticed that there wasn't a topic started about Dwarf Fortress yet. A new version is out (actually 2 buggy new versions that were patched up to a playable, stable one), and I was wondering if anyone here plays this awesome game?

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jul 2008, 08:47 »

Nah, I hit the learning 'curve'. I might give the newer versions a go though!
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #2 on: 18 Jul 2008, 09:50 »

A friend linked me to this a long time ago. At least a couple months back. I was gonna start a thread then, but I decided that everybody would think it was lame, and not post.

I'm glad I'm not the only one on the board who likes Dwarf Fortress!
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #3 on: 18 Jul 2008, 10:51 »

I played it a bit during a roguelike kick. I have a friend who plays the ASCII version. It takes 40-80 minutes to generate the world. He'll likely be very interested in this good-looking version.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jul 2008, 19:38 »

This actually looks really fun.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #5 on: 20 Jul 2008, 22:04 »

I was interested, but I never have access to a computer that can run it at a decent speed. This should change in a couple of weeks.
I used to spend time playing incursion, if that's anything to go by.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jul 2008, 22:18 »

Oh man, I was going to try this out a while back, but back then it was all ascii and ugly.  Now that it has some semblance of a graphical interface I will probably check it out.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #7 on: 20 Jul 2008, 22:24 »

I liked it when it was all ascii and ugly.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #8 on: 20 Jul 2008, 23:11 »

It seemed pretty interesting back in the ascii days, but yeah, it looked like shit. Procedurally created worlds fascinate me, even on the relatively crude level of Dwarf Fortress.

One thing that didn't look promising was the lack of direct control over the dwarves. From what I remember you basically assign a task to a dwarf and they go about their work automatically, and that was the extent of player input.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #9 on: 20 Jul 2008, 23:17 »

I tried to play this and JESUS FUCK THERE IS SUCH A THING AS "TOO COMPLEX".

Calling it a Roguelike is also kind of wildly inaccurate.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jul 2008, 00:32 »

I've tried to get into it so many times and I just always have better things to do, or not enough time to learn. I'd like to play it, especially after sitting in irc channels with people who are totally into it building elaborate computers that automatically flood certain rooms if they get attacked and so on.

Way too hard right now though, I'll try again in a month or two I'm sure.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jul 2008, 07:25 »

Oops! I meant to state this, but the core game (Dwarf Fortress) is still all "ugly and ASCII", but there are options to install your own graphics. What is shown in OP (and coincidentally, my favorite graphics pack), is The Mike Mayday Graphics Edition hosted by May Green.

The only bummer in my eyes is that he uses the "lite" version of Dwarf Fortress (no music). The easy way to resolve this would be to copy the files [song_game.ogg] & [song_title.ogg] from the full version of DF into the \data\sound directory.

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #12 on: 22 Jul 2008, 22:04 »

Ok so.

Last night I learned a few things re: this game.  I set up a party, tailored it with what I thought was a good starting kit, then picked a space that looked pretty cool.  Then I couldn't figure out how to get them to do any fucking thing, there was no water for miles and I couldn't find any kind of rock/mountain to mine despite putting my dudes down in what I thought was a hilly area.

Restarted in the mountains, finally worked out how to mine and get them to meet inside, set up some collection points for things, smoothed out the walls of the cave to make it nicer to live in.  Made a trade depot and received a visit from some neighbouring dudes and tried to make some beds/chairs etc but failed miserably despite having enough wood.  Not sure if I was missing the tools to make wooden things or what.  Oh also, by the time I found all these things out I had run out of food, so my little duders kept interrupting their work to kill rodents and so forth to eat.  Nom nom nom.

Tonight I am hoping I can pick a better start area with some water near it maybe and also perhaps some critters about to hunt.  I am not sure why the woodcrafting/working duder didn't want to make the beds/chairs, but I'll figure that out somehow.  My fisherman keeps catching turtles/fish but I can't use them for some reason and the corpses rot near where he caught them.  Maybe I need to set up a fish/meat store and set someone up to gut/clean them and someone to cook them?  I am unsure.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #13 on: 22 Jul 2008, 22:26 »

Oh, and I just realised that if I am far but not too far away from water I could always mine a channel from the stream to near my settlement.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #14 on: 22 Jul 2008, 22:34 »

I do not get it, at all.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #15 on: 22 Jul 2008, 22:47 »

I tried playing it without reading the manual, but I just couldn't get it.  Now that I am reading the "Your First Outpost" thinger on their website things are making a lot more sense.  I've already found out why my fish were rotting and found that I can gather plants for food if they are edible.  I have tried my hand at farming in the first game, but in the second game everything was granite so I couldn't farm.  Tonight I'm gonna give it another shot.

Still haven't read up on why my craftsman couldn't make furniture, but I'm still in the middle of reading.

edit: also I think it helps if you discard any romantic notions you might have about it being a fun game about Dwarfs and realise that it is a remarkably intricate failure simulator.

also also:

Wiki! http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Main_Page
Tutorial!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94qFsN247G8
« Last Edit: 22 Jul 2008, 23:08 by est »
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #16 on: 22 Jul 2008, 23:11 »

I really like the game. I don't know. I used to stay up pretty late playing it.


And, yeah, you do need a butcher and whatnot to eat the fish and other animals.


But yeah. I had a blast playing and only skimmed the manual. But I am weird.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #17 on: 22 Jul 2008, 23:42 »

a remarkably intricate failure simulator.

This.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #18 on: 22 Jul 2008, 23:58 »

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #19 on: 23 Jul 2008, 00:08 »

Oh yeah there have been a ton of hilarious Dwarf Fortress Let's Play threads on SA.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #20 on: 25 Jul 2008, 00:25 »

Update!

I tried my hand at irrigating my plump helmets (hurr hurr) and although it was executed less than elegantly I did succeed in pouring water onto the fields then draining the water away.  I am hoping that this makes the fields grow more helmets, raising my food production!

Oh shit, I just read the last entry I made in this thread and realised I didn't post an update for the results of my third (and ongoing) game.  I re-started in a temperate area with a nice amount of trees, a running stream and some hills.  I dug into the hills and carved out a few rooms.  Turned one into a barracks (shared bedroom), one into a meeting hall (dining room), and set up a farm area.  I set up doors all over the place because apparently Dwarfs like rooms with doors.  I set up some traps at the entrance, too.  To do this I had to put up a bunch of workshops and stuff.  I am definitely learning a lot about how to do certain things, and as a result it's becoming more and more fun.

One interesting thing that I attempted/failed at/recovered from was channelling the stream halfway across the map into a nearby pond to keep the water fresh and provide better access to fish, etc.  I channelled the stream toward the pond, running into a few snags here and there along the way.  Once I got to the pond it promptly drained out because it was on a higher level than the stream.  Pretty cool!  I had to channel down deeper and create a fake pond with some stairs leading down to it to achieve my goal, but then again this is ok because I realised that the stream is on the same level as the first level of my fortress, and once I go down another level it'll be an even better source of water.

My current plans include:
- learning about the trading system/crafting and such
- finding out how to better control the irrigation system I put in (by using levers) both for the planted crops and the fresh water from the stream for drinking & fishing
- creating some traps and some cages to capture a couple of the mountain goats around.  Hopefully a male and a female.  I want to tame them and see if I can milk them.
- doing the same for some of the deer around and hopefully breeding them for meat
- expanding the underground areas so that I can move the stockpiles and workshops down out of the rain
- tunnelling down another level into the marble (it's currently only sand, which is hardly a fitting material for Dwarfs to live in.  You can't even smooth the walls!)

More later after I've tried a few more things, perhaps with pictures if it's interesting enough.

edit:  just looked up the goats.  Looks like I can't milk them.  Fuckers!  I may actually edit some files to make male and female mountain goats and make the females milkable, because goat's milk is the staple of many mountain-dwelling people and Dwarfs usually have a kinship with them.  Seems a bit silly for them to not be milkable.  I mean, I'd hate to have to resort to filthy Human practices of keeping cows for their milk.  Next thing you know I'll be living outdoors.  Fuck.  That.
« Last Edit: 25 Jul 2008, 00:34 by est »
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #21 on: 25 Jul 2008, 00:41 »

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #22 on: 25 Jul 2008, 00:56 »

SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TO ENJOY THIS GAME.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #23 on: 25 Jul 2008, 02:43 »

I explained it to my friend today as being like a digital antfarm, only one in which you can give your ants tasks to do and get stories about their lives.  Also, the ants are ale-swigging Dwarfs.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #24 on: 25 Jul 2008, 23:06 »

Yesterday I unlocked the One-Man Army achievement in GTAIV.

NUMBER OF MAGMA SMELTS I HAD TO BUILD: 0
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #25 on: 26 Jul 2008, 01:08 »

Is there some kind of guide or noob-friendly manual out there? I took a look at the "Building Your First Outpost" manual on Bay 12's website, but it doesn't explain shit. I want to play this game.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #26 on: 26 Jul 2008, 06:30 »

Melodic, try the wiki's first fortress page: http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Your_first_fortress

It is significantly easier to read than Bay12's noob guide.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #27 on: 26 Jul 2008, 09:40 »

huh, the not May Green version does not seem to be working for me. I just get the usual ascii.

You're just supposed to unzip it and go right?

Edit - Nevermind, I'm a dumb shit.
« Last Edit: 26 Jul 2008, 10:04 by ackblom12 »
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #28 on: 26 Jul 2008, 18:44 »

I tried this game once a while back and found it about as much fun as getting teeth pulled.

I doubt actual graphics would make it any easier for me to play.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #29 on: 26 Jul 2008, 23:11 »

It is obviously not for everyone!
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #30 on: 27 Jul 2008, 02:16 »

I've gleaned as many wikis as I could, but there are still some rough patches to my Dwarf Fortress knowledge:

-Location. How the hell does anyone find a place to start that has running water, magma, animals to hunt, trees to chop, and cliffs to live in? Best I've gotten is trees. Anything with a remote chance of being neat is on an aquifer!

-Trading. I don't get it. Caravans miss my fortress, when traders DO come I have to set priority on what I want, and when they come back next year I can't buy any of that stuff.

-Stone stockpiles. There is a lot of fucking stone. I've tried to find a starting area that has three or four levels of sand/clay/loam, with stone underneath or in a cliff close by, but I've found NOTHING. And if I have to build my fortress in stone, then I end up with so much of the stuff I have to use a dump cheat to load it into a closet.

-Staying alive. This is really a combination of things, but I'm not great at renewing my resources. There aren't enough plants around for a still, not enough animals around for a butcher, and irrigation is impossible to figure out. Someone explain irrigation to me.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #31 on: 27 Jul 2008, 04:04 »

As far as I can see, irrigation is like, you make a tunnel between your farming area and a square away from a nearby water source.  Then you get a mason or a woodworker to make a floodgate in their respective workshops, then also make a lever.  You also need three (I think) mechanisms from a mechanic's workshop.

You put the floodgate near the opening to the farming area, then put the lever someplace on the other side of the farming area, then link the lever to the floodgate using the mechanisms.  After that you dig the last bit of stone/dirt away so that the water can come through the channel, and close the floodgates.  If you want extra control you can make two floodgates, one near the pone, another near the farms.  Then if anything strange happens to your irrigation channel you can close the one near the pond so that a dorf can try to fix it.

After that is in place and there is water behind the floodgate near your farm you flip the lever to open the gate, wait for water to cover your farming plots, then switch the lever again to close the floodgates. After the water dries up you will have muddy water over your plots and your crops will grow better.

This is the way I do it, and it seems to work ok!

Also, with the massive amount of stone you're collecting you should be making doors, tables, throne chairs, statues, all the workshops that you need, bridges, levers, that sort of thing.  Basically only make things out of wood if you can not make them out of stone.  The wiki says somewhere that it's something like only beds and buckets and a couple of other things can't be made out of stone.

My main dining hall for the 7 original dorfs was 8 tables and 8 thrones, with a stone door on the opening to it.  I had another stone door on every room that I made, because apparently dorfs like being enclosed and don't like rooms without doors as much as ones with them.  Then there's the stone mechanisms for the traps, stonefall traps, the mason's workshop, the mechanic's workshop, the fishery, and the kitchen all made out of stone.  Um, oh I also had to make a couple of stone bridges for ease of access to places and such.  It all eats away at the stone pile. You can also allocate a shitload of space off outside your fortress to be a stone stockpile.  Then people will lug it all out of the way.  If you make a big out outside and a smaller one inside then you can choose to take from the smaller one when you are constructing things.

As for the caravans, I believe that you need to create at least a dirt road from your fortress to a side of your map.  I can't remember if you can make it out of stone, but I guess if you can do that you will also tackle your stone problem while making the road :)

As for the location, well I am still not really sure about that.  I think there is a fair bit of experience required to choose a good location, and maybe a fair bit of luck too.  It seems pretty hard to me.  One good thing that makes it a bit easier is using the um, "u,h,l & m" keys (I think?  something like that, it tells you at the start) when choosing your starting location, because you can move the little square about in the minimap that ultimately defines where on the little minimap you're going to be settling.  I try to settle on the edge of a mountain near some trees and a river.  Not sure how to find magma yet, I guess that is something for the future.
« Last Edit: 27 Jul 2008, 04:18 by est »
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #32 on: 27 Jul 2008, 04:54 »

I'm trying to figure out irrigation at the moment, using a reservoir system (two floodgates). Everything seems to work fine, except that one of my floodgates gives an error every time I try to open it. "Lever failed to link to site" or something like that, which sounds like bullocks to me. Will try again later.

I have to say, this brings out my inner perfectionist. It's like the Sims, with a fucking castle. That's awesome. I really wish there was an easy way to mass-floor an area, though.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #33 on: 27 Jul 2008, 05:41 »

If you have a stone room of some kind you can smooth off the floor instead by designating an area of smooth stone over a floor.  It is a lot simpler!

And yeah, it is kind of like the sims, but without the cutesy graphics, the stupid interactions and occasionally you're attacking by fucking goblins.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #34 on: 27 Jul 2008, 06:32 »

I need Stone Detailing if I want to smooth the rooms. How can I get that if I haven't selected a main dwarf with that skill?

Ed: It also doesn't work on soil, loam, clay, or what-have-you, which sucks because my entire living quarters is up there.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #35 on: 27 Jul 2008, 06:40 »

Just [v]iew a dwarf of your choice, and change their labor preferences (I want to say [p] then [l] to select Stone Detailing. The only thing you can't assign on this screen is for a miner to cut wood or vice versa. If you select wood cutting, it will deselect mining. This is because of the weapon they use. Woodcutters carry an axe, and miners carry a pick.

The way I handle a ton of stone is to designate one square near a mason's workshop as a garbage dump, then dump all the stone there.

Also, if you start in an area without hills, you can always tunnel stairs down into the dirt.

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #36 on: 27 Jul 2008, 07:06 »

The garbage dump trick really irritates me, though. It's cheating!

Anyways, I've started the same year 10 or so different times getting a feel for the game, and I think I'd be much happier if I could remember where I started every time. I've got a pretty smooth operation going right now, but I'm going to have to cancel it because all of my living quarters are in soil. I read somewhere, too, that reservoirs would work on an area 7 times as large it, but that seems to only cover half of the area I need it to. Back to the drawing board!
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #37 on: 27 Jul 2008, 07:37 »

I just made my first successful trade with some other dorfs.  It was pretty cool.  Traded a bunch of shell and bone armour, some mechanisms and a couple of wooden something or others for some cloth, some thread and some more meat.  The trading system seems to ream you a fair bit.

My current farming area is a bit too small, I think.  Next play I am going to expand it a bit, because I think I am up to almost 20 dorfs in my little cavern.  I should really start excavating more area, because they're gonna start to get cramped soon.  If I am going to excavate more area it'll be down a level into the marble, which is gonna give my miners and masons a fair bit of a workout, but whutevar.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #38 on: 27 Jul 2008, 08:45 »

The trading system seems so incredibly fucked, I can't begin to comprehend it. Then again, I haven't slept in some 50 hours. Fuckin' dwarfs.

NEW QUESTION. How do I kill these stupid monkeys, and is there an easy way to recall animals and dwarfs to within the fortress?
« Last Edit: 27 Jul 2008, 12:58 by Melodic »
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And if you played too hard it'd flop out and dangle around by the wire and that is just super ugly

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #39 on: 27 Jul 2008, 16:07 »

The only thing I do to make dwarfs congregate inside the fortress is to set up a meeting area in the dining room.  They generally tend to mill about in there when they are idling.  If there is some kind of emergency I think you can then go into the general jobs/tasks list and turn everything that looks like work off so that they quit what they are doing and go back to that meeting area to begin idling.

At the moment I have a problem where the only weapon I have is the axe that belongs to my woodcutter because some random thing stole the other axe I took with me (I didn't see who/what it was) and now there is a kobold with a weapon menacing my peeps and threatening to steal more stuff.  I need to move my stores underground asap, I think.  And also start making/buying weapons somehow.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #40 on: 28 Jul 2008, 02:49 »

As far as rooms in soil... why not just dig new rooms in rock, and move them down there? You can keep the dirt rooms for after the dwarven economy kicks in. A lot of dwarves will need low rent housing.

My biggest suggestion for your early fortress is a large area dug out and set up with beds (about 20) and set up as a barracks. Dwarves will still get an unhappy thought for not having a PROPER room, but it's not as bad a hit as sleeping in dirt/on rocks. It also allows you to concentrate on more important works projects... it comes in handy for the inevitable immigration waves... plus the fact that once you have a standing army, they'll need a barracks.

As far as the Trading System, the merchants who come to your fort are going to want a profit. Think about what they had to go through to get there! A good rule of thumb is to give them a 50% profit. This usually makes 'em happy. Also, if you want them to bring lots of goods, offer a tribute to that civilization. The next caravan will usually be larger.

Traps are the best answer to any problems your fortress would have with wildlife. Start off with easy-to-build one shot traps (stonefall + cage) then graduate to self-resetting, but tough to build, weapon traps. As far as getting your dwarves in the fortress, there's the
  • rder for them to stay indoors, but the order is still bugged; this tends to make them just gather at the entrance. You would also need to lock your front doors.


Weapon: it sounds like you need to get busy making more! Seeing as how your identified threat is a Kobold, though, I'd just activate the person nearest the little bugger and let him wrestle him to death. He's just got a knife! I had a dwarf get stabbed in the head with the knife stuck in his head and it hardly showed as more than a bruise.

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #41 on: 28 Jul 2008, 03:40 »

One of my peasants tried to wrestle a fox and died.  Poor bastard.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #42 on: 28 Jul 2008, 04:05 »

Well, to be fair the game said he was injured by a fox, then he suffocated to death.

I like to think he tried to wrassle it, lost, then jumped into a pond to drown himself rather than live with the shame.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #43 on: 28 Jul 2008, 04:30 »

Are you sure the fox didn't jam it's bushy, luxurious tale down the dwarf's stubby throat?

Them foxes, they's cunning.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #44 on: 28 Jul 2008, 06:48 »

They's sure is
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #45 on: 28 Jul 2008, 07:47 »

Chances are the wound he sustained is to the throat. The fox ripped his throat out. That's why all of my hunters carry spears. Stick the fox in the upper torso, piercing both lungs and his heart. He won't be hurting you any more.

Slogging around in Adventurer Mode really gives you a feel for how combat is handled behind the scenes. IMO it's the most brutal combat you'll find in a game.

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #46 on: 28 Jul 2008, 12:25 »

Brutal in that the game is telling you "OH GOD YOU JUST RIPPED OUT HIS FUCKING THROAT. YOU CAN STILL HEAR RASPING SOUNDS AS HE FALLS TO THE GROUND IN A POOL OF HIS OWN BODILY FLUIDS, AMONG THEM URINE."

Also, I have a problem with stockpiles. Mainly, I can't get them big enough in a timely manner to store all of my items. For example, I brought 100 barrels of meat with me, so I assume I need at least 100 tiles of food stockpile to hold it. I don't want to waste the time of my dwarfs by building it outside, so I wait and build it inside. But 100 squares is a lot of space, so I need to make 4 5x5 rooms to handle it, which takes ages and also fills up my STONE stockpile to bursting. Then I have to cheat and make a dump for the rest of my unused equipment, and I've just completely wasted the first half of the game merely setting up rooms for stockpiles.
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And if you played too hard it'd flop out and dangle around by the wire and that is just super ugly

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #47 on: 28 Jul 2008, 17:46 »

Just set up stockpiles outside until you have room enough inside.  It's not a waste of time, it's prioritising the time you have based on current circumstances.  You can always de-allocate the space later when you want to use it for something else.
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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #48 on: 29 Jul 2008, 00:55 »

I suppose that makes sense, but it irks me that I then have to spend a couple of in-game days just transporting all of my goods inside. Oh well, you are correct.
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And if you played too hard it'd flop out and dangle around by the wire and that is just super ugly

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Re: DWARF FORTRESS
« Reply #49 on: 29 Jul 2008, 06:06 »

As long as your food is 1. in barrels and 2. in a stockpile, you should be fine. It won't spoil. The only thing you would need to worry about is that there are some vermin which can chew through the barrels to get at your food, like those two-legged rhino lizards.

Personally, I set up a stockpile outside for food, then when I have the space cleared out for my food & booze stockpiles, I change the outside stockpile to Refuse rather than eliminate the pile altogether, but that's just because I don't like miasma.
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