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[justlikeaphoto]

Warlocks hate being asked to summon people to random places.  Especially if they don't know you.

Besides, the grind from 50 to 58 is nothing compaired to what it used to be.  Un'Goro, Felwood, Winterspring, and a bit of Silithus will get you there in less then a day if you know how to power grind quests and which ones to skip over.

Then just talk a walk down to the Blasted Lands, make a little hop, skip, and a jump through the Portal and Ta-Dah.  Outlands.

You can easily go from 58 to 60 in less then 6 hours if you know the quests there.

[clockworkjames]

Yeah... but if you are 56 now you could be 60 by tonight if you get a portal :/

Just saying it is a lot faster in outlands.

[clockworkjames]

Because fury warriors with 2 1h weps are made of suck :/

Even full epic 70's only get like 1.5k per crit from what I have seen. Only really good if you have a healer, take the aggro of 3-4 mobs then start spinning like a mad cunt, then you do okay but sweeping strikes and a strong 2h wep, with slam will do simmilar.

[est]

Everything I've read re: DPS has been to the contrary.  2x 1h with Fury for solo PvE, 2h with Arms for PvP, 1h + shield for tanking.  Where your mainly-Arms tree build is focused on increasing the damage your weapons do the Fury tree's damage generation isn't simply weapon-based, it is supplemented mainly by Flurry, Bloodthirst (which is propped up by Rampage if you like - and I do like) and your increased rage generation from Unbridled Wrath letting you make more special attacks and such.

I apologise pre-emptively because you probably already know all that.  I just don't want to assume you do, I guess.  It's just that I see lots of build analyses and such talking about Fury being sustained DPS with a small amount of healing from Bloodthirst (and it is noticeable, especially supplemented with a Lifestone or some other small, constant healing item) whereas Arms is more of a burst-damage model that achieves roughly the same amount of damage but is not as sustainable.  If you have information to the contrary then I'd love to know it.  I'm specialised in dual-wielding at the moment, but if I am missing out on a definite benefit then I'm open to other suggestions.

[est]

Anyway, basically I am going to end up with a build something like this guy's: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jubei%27Thos&n=Dethecus

Here's my progress so far: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dath%27Remar&n=Hadron

[Alex C]

Yeah, est's got it right. Fury is ALL about flurry and stacking your strength stupidly high (once you have your +hit & crit up to snuff, of course). I don't play anymore, but here's an armory of my fury warrior guildmember Drago. None of his blows are all that terribly impressive individually, but it all adds up stupidly fast. The dude has got no mercy.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Garona&n=Drago

[est]

That guy has made some odd choices like the 1 sec off Whirlwind cooldown, but whatever!  So long as it works for him.  I have been wondering about the effectiveness of Weapon Mastery lately, because I find myself getting disarmed a bit by certain mobs.  I am not sure why he's gone for Heroic Strike over full ranks of Deflection, because even at 57 I find myself not using it all that much because it sucks Rage up like nothing else.

[Storm Rider]

Why am I dicking around with the talent calculator now it is not like I have any idea what any of this shit means

[est]

But but but: numbers in boxes!

[Alex C]

est: Dude's a pure raider and his gear hit the point where his rage generation was outpacing his typical DPS cycle, so Imp. WW and Imp. HS are great for tightening up his cycle and dumping off some extra rage. Heroic strike, btw, really comes into its own at high end play with all that extra rage you can get; on top of the flat tooltip damage bonus, you also get the 20% damage increase from Impale if it crits, which is a pretty hefty boost over a normal white hit. And yeah, deflection is really nice, but it's not really essential, per se, and in high end raiding pulling aggro can be deadly even to guys geared up as secondary tanks if the healers aren't aware that there's about to be an aggro transfer. A fury warrior is basically a dead man if he gets aggro in that scenario, deflection or not. As for Weapon Mastery, it's an absolutely beautiful talent, actually. Unlike players, mobs can still dodge even when being attacked from behind, it's just not something people notice too often for multiple reasons-- in your case, it's probably because you're not a raiding dps warrior and thus you likely spend your time in front of the mobs rather than smacking them in the ass alongside the rogues while someone else tanks. And hey, an accuracy boost is an accuracy boost, even if you are the one tanking.

Really, the difference between Dethecus and Drago's builds simply comes down to how much tanking and pvping you do. Tactical mastery and Deflection are obviously great for longevity and stance dancing while Weapon Mastery is a awesome if you want to make sure every swing counts. The bread 'n' butter remain the same either way.

[est]

Makes sense!  Thanks for the clarification.

[Alex C]

Trust me, I'm not surprised ya questioned the Imp. Heroic strike. Drago's cheerily admitted that the first chunk of the Arms tree is kind of a crap shoot as far as pure dps is concerned, but Impale is just too good to pass up.

Plus, it's probably a lot easier to be cavalier about Deflection when you have 10k hps in your dps gear. For what it's worth, my old warrior alts all had 5 Deflection.

[clockworkjames]

SLAM is where it's at for arms, I never had it on my skill bar until lv 68 because how useless it seems but with a slow 2h wep, hits once every 3 secs at best, spending 15 rage to so an attack +100 dmg every half second+cd is brutal, then think sweeping strikes for PvE when you overpull, with a string of crits on 1 char you can keep over 1000 DPS.

In PvP it is a little harder, charge and then slam a squishy while they are stunned, but with rogues it is pot luck, .5secs is a long cast time but there is a chance by the time they jumped away they will jump back in front of you then BAM, mace to the head. If you want to PvE roll prot, you will get a group EASY and it's not tthat fun, takes more skill than most other jobs to do it rite and you learn the skill of marking targets.

I test all my shit on private instant 70 servers, and as such I have done serious experimentation in builds. I like PvP so I am arms fury. If you want to try PvE fury good luck, some people just don't take you seriously next to a rogue/mage/hunter for DPS.

[est]

Yeah, I have heard a bit about Slam being good with slow weapons because it only takes the weapon's base damage value into account when calculating it's own damage.   Makes sense for PvP because you want to do as much damage as possible in a small timeframe.

Also, re: no-one taking me seriously over a rogue or something, that is ok!  For the most part I don't want to play with other people anyway and I am getting decent results solo quest leveling with this build.  Perhaps later it'll get harder, but so far I have leveled from 1-57 without grouping seriously.  Maybe once or twice to share kills for a quest, but once that's over we go our separate ways.  Haven't done any instances or anything like that because they are mostly a waste of my rather limited gametime.  I just skin and mine the shit out of everything I see and buy decent weapons with the proceeds.  My rogue alt can do Fiery weapon enchants, ammunition and scopes for rifles, so I generally add that to the weapons I have for the damage boost, and when he gets high enough for Lifestealing I'll probably change to that instead for more damage+self-heals.

[lief]

How about the new PVE to PVP server transfers, level up in the safety of the carebears, and then go kill people XD ... Just trying to stoke the flames a bit, Honestly I think my favorite PVP game overall was UO, you could lose everything (before item insurance) and people would just have brawls, PVP'ers would make houses near moongates and just fire off from the houses reds vs blues. Great system.

[clockworkjames]

Outlands is suck for solo-ing. Either boring grind quests or dying alone lots, gotta group dungeons. You can get from 10% to 40% of a level from the one dungeon, did about 30ish dungeon runs from 58-70, it is a good way to get some nice gear too.

[Yakob]

I'm pretty much the opposite of est. I'm all about the instancing and hardly ever quest unless a certain quest yields a good piece of equipment.

Guys, let's talk about rogues so I can participate more.

I'm pretty psyched that they are ditching Flash Powder in WotLK. I'm always forgetting to buy that shit.

Edit: My rogue (you have to change the %F3 in my name in the url to ó (alt+162))

[Eris]

Ha ha, you play a girrrrrrrrl

[Eris]

In all seriousness though, I guess that build is pretty good for what you're doing.  I wondered why you didn't have anything in the top end of Subtlety as people normally do, but then remembered you group all the time so it's not important.  Are you going to go deeper into Combat or start getting things in the Assassination tree that'll be good in group, like the Imp Expose Armour?

[Yakob]

I'm not really sure, to be honest. I'll probably end up repeccing to fix up my current build.

[Alex C]

Honestly, I hate the subtlety tree with the burning heat of a thousand suns for anything but PvP. You don't need Camoflauge or MoD to sneak up on mobs, Improved Sap doesn't even exist anymore, Hemo takes a LOT of fiddling to compete with Sinister Strike and daggers are kinda trashy these days so I'm not fond of Improved Ambush or Opportunity. There's things to like about the Subtlety tree, (Initiative and Preparation are dead sexy talents) but they're all buried at least 10 points down into the tree and even then I doubt I'd give up Combat Potency or Mutilate unless I was really hardcore about pvp utility. There's really nothing wrong with Nótt's build that shooting straight for Lethatlity won't fix.

Improve Expose Armor is OK in pvp builds, but for some dumb reason Blizzard refuses to let it stack with the warrior ability Sunder Armor. Even worse, dropping an Improved Expose Armor on a mob actually forbids the warrior from using Sunder Armor on it to build threat, which is a great way of really pissing off your tank.

[clockworkjames]

Improve Expose Armor is OK in pvp builds, but for some dumb reason Blizzard refuses to let it stack with the warrior ability Sunder Armor. Even worse, dropping an Improved Expose Armor on a mob actually forbids the warrior from using Sunder Armor on it to build threat, which is a great way of really pissing off your tank, then he drops aggro to you and you die.

Fix'ed.

And also for ó you can do ctrl+alt+o methinks...

I though subtlety was strictly PvP? But I dunno as I never played a rogue past 19. Jamés on Dunemaul EU I think.

[Yakob]

Update: I repecced very shortly after my last post to get to the bottom of combat.

I'm with Whipstitch, subtlety is the bane of my existence.

[Alex C]

Rogue talents are pretty easy, really; it's hard to go wrong with a heavy combat spec and dipping into assassination for Relentless Strikes and Lethality. After that, it's really just a matter of hitting max level and then changing your spec to match whatever is dropping for you. For example, back when I still mained a rogue, I was a bigger fan of using maces/swords/fists and Sinister Strike than I was of using daggers and Backstab, but with the right mix of Combat talents, you can make them all do pretty similar damage, even if Backstab is kind of a pain in the ass compared to Sinister Strike during solo play. Pre-BC, I actually ended up with Combat Daggers as my primary simply because the Perdition's Blade and Core Hound Tooth both dropped for me relatively quickly.

[clockworkjames]

I got a new purple http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37597

:/ Not too good for a 2h mace spec warrior... suppose I could use it to tank or something... Everyone passed it.

[Alex C]

Man, that would have been such a sweet dagger prior to the attack power normalization.

/sigh

It's still nice though.

[clockworkjames]

It looks like a broken bottle.

Ultimate chib tool.

[est]

So uh, I guess I am in Outland now and have hit 60 (jumped two levels last night while questing with a friend).  The jump in gear quality really is quite striking.  I've had pretty decent gear up until this point.  I've had people look at me and say "shit, that is some decent gear."  I got to some kind of "collect a bunch of trash" quest right outside Honor Hold and the resulting reward was only green and yet blew the shit out of the blue item it was meant to replace.

So yeah, anyway.  Been doing quests and such.  The mobs here are a bit harder than I am used to because they've all been 59-62 and I've been 58/59.  I've been kind of bludging for the last little while doing quests in areas that are a bit lower than my level, so the increased level of challenge is actually a lot of fun.  My next goal at the moment is to save up the money for my level 60 riding training + mount.  "Fun!"

[Alex C]

Hey, est, I was looking at your trinkets and thought you might want to pick this li'l beauty up: Strength of the High Chief. It's really quite easy to get plus the quests should still net you experience, even if most of them are green  to you at this point. You go just go to Winterfall and kill Winterfall Furbolgs until one drops an Empty Firewater Flask, which doesn't take long. It starts a quest chain that requires you to go back and forth between Winterfall and Fellwood once or twice, but you don't have to run any instances or anything, so it'd be a cakewalk solo, especially now that you've got some outland gear. Once you get to the part to where you kill the High Chief Winterfall it's a simple matter of looting a quest-giving book he drops (he only drops it when you're killing him for the chain quests, btw) and turning it in for a pretty nice trinket. The only real DPS upgrades to it prior to the mid-60s require pvp or running instances, so I thought I'd mention it. It's a pretty nice payoff relative to the work you have to put in to get it.

[est]

Oh man, an I'd been looking into replacing that crappy loofa with something too.  Thanks for the heads-up, I'll email the details to my home account (I'm at work at the moment).

[Alex C]

I think getting rid of the Luffa as basically a WoW rite of passage for each character. It's especially egregious in your case since you can just stoneform out of bleed effects as a dwarf anyway. Blizz was crazy tightfisted with trinkets before BC came out though; it seems like practically everyone ends up hitting 60 with a luffa+carrot-on-a-stick combo. Can you believe they put the Strength of the High Chief into the game with a post expansion patch? I had done that quest like a million times before just for the experience, so I nearly crapped myself when I got that thing while leveling an alt.

[est]

Just finished this little sequence.  Was pretty easy, just had to run back and forth a bit.  Thanks again for the tip, I like the new trinket.

[justlikeaphoto]

So uh, I guess I am in Outland now and have hit 60 (jumped two levels last night while questing with a friend).  The jump in gear quality really is quite striking.  I've had pretty decent gear up until this point.  I've had people look at me and say "shit, that is some decent gear."  I got to some kind of "collect a bunch of trash" quest right outside Honor Hold and the resulting reward was only green and yet blew the shit out of the blue item it was meant to replace.

So yeah, anyway.  Been doing quests and such.  The mobs here are a bit harder than I am used to because they've all been 59-62 and I've been 58/59.  I've been kind of bludging for the last little while doing quests in areas that are a bit lower than my level, so the increased level of challenge is actually a lot of fun.  My next goal at the moment is to save up the money for my level 60 riding training + mount.  "Fun!"

The easiest way to make money in Outlands (And you'll need A LOT of it.  Buying the training for the level 60 Epic Mounts, the level 70 Flying Mount, and then the level 70 Epic Flying Mounts will cost a ton and depending on what you want for the mounts themselves you can tack on another 600 to 2000 gold.) is grind every quest you can, sell any trade skill mats you can, farm Primals, and eventually once you reach 70, doing Daily Quests.  If you can managed to do at least 10 to 15 Daily quests each day you can rack up gold very quickly as each one generally gives you between 8 and 12 pieces of gold.  Do not waste money on trade skill items, gear, or gems for the most part.

A different option would be the scrub route.  Grind your quests, horde your gold, hit 70, and just do Daily quests.  Farm those until Wrath of the Lich King drops and continue in the same fashion.  When Patch 3.0.2 goes live (hopefully next week on the 14th) leveling Outlands will go by a lot faster.

If you're the type of person who really wants to get Exalted with the majority of the Outland factions run the starting level instances until the quit giving rep.  It's just about as efficent as questing and in some cases even more so.  If you don't mind running the instances that is.  Regardless of how you feel I really, really, REALLY recommend doing this once you reach Zangermarsh for Centurian Expedition.  There are a lot of really great thigns at the Reveared and Exalted level, especially the War Hippogryph (A level 70 Epic Flying Mount, with the Exalted discount it'll run you 1600 Gold).  I also recommend grinding rep on the Consortium.  There is a monthly repeatable quest where they'll give you gems based on your rep standing, the higher you are with them the better gems you get.  If you're at Exalted you have a decent change for some really nice Rare gems and even some Epic gems.

[est]

Sounds good, guys.  I am a miner/skinner anyway & sell the mats on the AH.  It's how I've financed most of my gear so far.  The only money-suck I have is an alt who enchants, but now that he's up to Fiery weapon enchants I can put the brakes on for a bit until I get up enough money to get him up to whatever the life-stealing one is.

[ackblom12]

Ok, guys, I think I'm actually going to restart my account. Any suggestions on servers? I'd probably be rolling Horde for my alt and trying to decide if playing my main Alliance Priest is still fun or not.

[Imnawtinsane]

Honestly, after playing through the game at level 60, getting raid gear and such, then playing through 70 with multiple characters, getting 1850 arena ratings, 4/5 season 4 and whatnot, it all got boring. so I quit. Yeah I just do RL stuff now, and it was worth quitting. also looking to sell account with Amazing gear. (3 70s and a 65) Private message me if interested

[justlikeaphoto]

Ok, guys, I think I'm actually going to restart my account. Any suggestions on servers? I'd probably be rolling Horde for my alt and trying to decide if playing my main Alliance Priest is still fun or not.

I are on Sisters of Elune currently.  I've played on a handful but so far this is by far my favorite.  Mok'Nathal comes in at a close second but only because I knew a ton of people on there.

SoE is a pretty stable server though, RP-PVE (Don't let the RP part scare you, it's no different from a standard PVE server except people are generally a little bit nicer and Silvermoon City is full of people aimlessly walking around in the streets together or RP-ing in the Inns).  It has a good economy (geared mainly towards level 70 players with a surplus of gold or alts they're feeding it to), a good population, and good progression.

[axerton]

Well encouragement from a cute girl finally pushed me over the edge and I bought the game three weeks ago. Currently on Aman'Thul server, with my main a lvl 40 Draenei arcane Mage and and 4 alts at lvl 10 (human rogue, Nelf druid, dwarf hunter, gnome warlock) currently really enjoying mucking around with the alts.

The timing on this however could have been better as I have my exams coming up soon. Hopefully I will manage to find the self discipline that I seem to have lost at birth, not likely but I'm remaining optimistic for the moment. Also I know that should this game cause me to fail my exams I'll never pay for another gamecard again.

The afore mentioned cute girl set me up with the recruit a friend thing - and we have characters made solely to play together but gaining 3x experince on everything (including quest experience) isn't as fun as you might think because you're progressing so fast you don't get any continuity with the quests and also I don't particularly like being in a constant party, don't get me wrong joining up with some people for a quest or two is fine, but I don't like to have someone waiting around wanting to go out questing while I'm jerking around with trades skills and such. It probably doesn't help that that character is a hunter and she's playing a Priest, a combination that doesn't seem to meld well. Money and equipment is an issue too, because by it basically divides the number of quests done and enemies killed by 3, meaning it's not always easy to afford all your spells let alone good stuff and you get fewer quest rewards or item drops.

[imagist42]

Recruit-a-friend is retardedly broken, especially since Blizz already fixed levels 20-60 so they go by faster. The experience boost should be something more reasonable, like a constant 1.5x rested state or something. I guess they just figure people want to get to 60 and jump into Outland as soon as possible, but that's forgetting that millions of people found Azeroth fun enough before TBC.

[clockworkjames]

I found this shortly after I made my "thunder" hammer.

"Rogues finally found their place in 5v5 arena"

[Alex C]

I keep having the craziest urge to renew my account and start over on a new server. Someone tell me I'm crazy.

[imagist42]

Whoa man, those changes hella make me want to play. I did not even know there were changes to that extent!

I mean, if I even had a full month left in which I could play, I so would.

[Boro_Bandito]

Guys! Resist the urge! We've all been there, remember why you quit to begin with. Sure, it seems like you can just hop back on and pretend like nothing happened, but I've been down that way before, multiple times, and the stories' always the same. The grind, the gear, the frustration of trying to play a pickup game, the rogues. Down that path is a lot of heartache, and you need to stay strong. I love you guys, I just don't want to see you hurt.

[Alex C]

But I could go back and just play for a little while! Just for a drop or two, for old time's sake. I can quit anytime I want.

[Beren]

You can enter BG's without talking to a battlemaster! You can swap between two talent sets!

Neither of these will be implemented until the first patch after Lich King, unfortunately. =P

[imagist42]

Actually, if I were to be around when the level cap is raised (which I'm not), I probably would hop on again, level to 80, and then get bored enough to quit. As I've said before, I only enjoy the game when I'm a) growing as I explore the world (progressing from area to area and levelling with quests), or b) taking it on as some kind of full-time job, constantly playing through endgame content for better and better gear. And I have come to acknowledge (twice; both before and after TBC) that I simply cannot afford to do the second one. So while I will not be able to play the game for quite some time, I could easily see myself coming back eventually to catch up on all the former type of fun that I have missed, then dropping when I hit whatever the level cap is at that point.

[est]

I am still at 60 because I've been playing other things for a bit.  Some of the changes look good, but others like the Warrior talent tree revamp look like they are going to alter the way I play completely, which is not so good.  Oh well, I guess we'll see how things pan out.

[Covetous]

Indeed it is very tempting. Think about all the new fun blue and purpel stuff you can find. But I get so much done now that I'm not playing any mmorpgs. Thats one of my main reasons not to ever with start WoW again. It takes so "jävla" much time.

[0bsessions]

Recruit-a-friend is retardedly broken, especially since Blizz already fixed levels 20-60 so they go by faster. The experience boost should be something more reasonable, like a constant 1.5x rested state or something. I guess they just figure people want to get to 60 and jump into Outland as soon as possible, but that's forgetting that millions of people found Azeroth fun enough before TBC.

The biggest problem with the Recruit-a-Friend is the monetary issue. You're not earning a proportionate amount of gold to properly up your skills. I'm currently level 40 with a whopping six gold to my name and only one blue item because I have to sink pretty much everything I get into skills. My Druid is rough enough (I solo with him a lot too, so that helps), but my hunter is absolutely fucked cause I overindulged in the grant a level from my brother, so now I can't afford ANY skills most of the time and my professions are practically non-existent at like level 32.

The recruit-a-friend drive seems less designed for new players and more designed for former players who'd like to circumvent the grinding and know enough ins and outs of the game to keep their earnings on proper pace. Rachel's got money on alts and from her dad and my brother played for years and knows how to easily earn gold. It kind of leaves the legitimate new users they're allegedly trying to entice out in the cold. That said, I'm still playing, so I guess they're doing something right.

[supersheep]

So I guess I am about to take the plunge into this seething pit of terror! YAY!