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AMAZING BOOOOOOOK

12 (10.1%)

Stephenie Meyer is a GENIUS

4 (3.4%)

You're all wanks

103 (86.6%)

Total Members Voted: 89

[Blue Kitty]

really freaking creepy

There have been times when I looked at a girl and my stomach has growled.  I have never put these two random occurrences together before.

[peach]

None of this makes much sense to me.  Could you go into more detail?  Why would we make fun of you for being a nerd?  The people I know who like the books are as far away from nerdy as one could get.

haha, don't worry about it =p

[Nodaisho]

Yeah, well I have to let it load again. Which is not going to happen now.

You can have it load from a certain point, rather than from the beginning, or did you mean that you had to wait for it to buffer, it was loading slower than playing?

My friend thought the a few months bit was intended to be funny, I found it pretty creepy.

I was surprised that they didn't have Charlie continue cleaning his shotgun as he was talking to Edward, seemed like a perfect set-up for it.

The use of the word nerd for someone that likes the book a lot seems to be popular, my friend describes himself as a nerd for liking them so much. He is a nerd, of course, he works on his own computer, plays video games, and plans for the zombie apocalypse, but twilight has nothing to do with that.

[ampersandwitch]

haha, don't worry about it =p

QUE
 

[Jimmy the Squid]

No, Jimmy, I too want a 100+ year old person who consistently tells me he wants to murder me and drink my bodily fluids.  Additionally, he must be into me because he likes the way I smell.  Also, I require that we both know what Debussy and Claire de Lune are.  I will love him because he is beautiful and I will absolutely break apart if he ever leaves.  He must cut my brakes if I ever want to see other boys, and he must absolutely disregard my feelings in all matters because he knows best.  I want my very own Edward Cullen, because of his crooked smile and his beautiful topaz eyes and most of all because he does not exist.

WHEN I PUT IT THAT WAY, WHO DOESN'T

Taylor, I would cut your breaks so hard. So hard.

[Eris]

More interesting links!

TV Tropes page about Twilight
A count of various elements in the book, which should give you a feel for exactly how numerous its flaws are.

[KvP]

Twilight itself doesn't really seem to be worth reading, but in the wake of its runaway success (which I called, because I am prescient) there have been some neat essays written about it. A lot of evaluation has been done on the decidedly anti-feminist nature of the book and of romance literature in general, just as there's been a lot of discussion of it here on the forums. Bella is a vapid and uninteresting character because that lack of personality provides a void for the reader to insert his/herself into. Salon has a good one, I think the writer talks about how if pornography is a product of the male's basest desires then romance lit is a product of the female's, or something to that effect. It's probably an old theory I just haven't been exposed to for whatever reason, but it's interesting to think about. I suppose it could be distressing to certain people, but... I don't know, most people have weird fantasies, it's just that usually those fantasies aren't flaunted publicly in such an overblown way as you'd see at any of these Hot Topic visits. Man... I think it's been said before, but the girls aren't even there for the actor, they're there for the character he plays, which is just a little bit... touched.

[MadassAlex]

i like twilight.
that's all there is to it ahah.
but i am a teenage girl in highschool who wishes to find a guy like edward...i mean, who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?
make fun of me all ya want i already know i'm a nerd. =p

But he is also incredibly creepy and possessive. Doesn't this bother you a little?

[CamusCanDo]

...who doesn't want a tall guy with pretty hair and eyes, strong muscular body and as impossible to get as a fictional character could get?

[allison]

And then make him dead! Pale and cold is such a turn on.

...What's that word again? Nec-- Necra-- Necrophilia, that's the one.

[Lines]

I would not turn to narcolepsy just so I could get a good looking tall guy. I have standards. Being alive is one of them.

[Nodaisho]

Don't be vitalist.

[CardinalFang]

I would not turn to necrophilia just so I could get a good looking tall guy. I have standards. Being alive is one of them.

Fixed for you!

Unless you meant excessive daytime sleepiness.

[Lines]

HAHAHA! Man. That is too good of a typo to edit. I totally meant death, not people who can't help falling asleep at random intervals.

[CardinalFang]

I did consider not mentioning it because the visual was so good!

Linds: "Ooo look at that hot, tall guy over there. I know what I need to do."
Linds: "Excuse me, but can I ask you a questi...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Tall, Hot guy: "I LOVE YOU!"

[MadassAlex]

I'm just going to come out and say what every single guy in this thread is thinkin':

Edward is really threatening to me, because I thought women wanted a dude with substance.

I can understand the attraction, but only to a certain extent. For instance, Bella is apparently hella hot. I'd bone her. But I would be the fuck out of there before she wakes up.

[ampersandwitch]

QUE
 

[peach]

thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\

[Alex C]

I'm just going to come out and say what every single guy in this thread is thinkin':

Edward is really threatening to me, because I thought women wanted a dude with substance.

Actually, that never occurred to me. Then again, I'm just barely cute enough that my demeanor and general lack of substance is what usually submarines my relationships. In an odd way, that's way more depressing than being kind of bleh.

[Tom]

But I would be the fuck out of there before she wakes up.

Dude that was creepy, not funny.

[allison]

thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\

Well if you're looking for the Edward Cullen factor, you can check cemetaries.

[Lines]

Linds: "Ooo look at that hot, tall guy over there. I know what I need to do."
Linds: "Excuse me, but can I ask you a questi...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Tall, Hot guy: "I LOVE YOU!"

No wonder I have relationship issues. Guh.

[MadassAlex]

Dude that was creepy, not funny.

The actual implication is that I'd sleep with her consensually and bolt in the early hours of the morning.

So your reading of such an event really says more about you. 

[sandysmilinstrange]

thanks to stephenie meyer i'll never find a man. =\

Everybody has a literary crush. Best thing for me was to remind myself that if I search for love between the covers of a book I will probably live a life lonlier than all the Bronte sisters combined and the only part of my death that is of any consequence to anyone is the smell of my corpse.

Is pleasant, the literary crush, but important to remember is also fictional.

[peach]

-sigh-
very true. i just compare every guy i meet to edward cullen all the time now, ahaha =p

[Nodaisho]

Dude that was creepy, not funny.

The actual implication is that I'd sleep with her consensually and bolt in the early hours of the morning.

So your reading of such an event really says more about you. 

I think it has to do with us having been talking about watching someone sleep, then you mention leaving before she wakes up. Context, you know.

[Alex C]

I'm pretty sure I don't have a literary crush.

Or, at least, no characters come to mind, at any rate.

[Dazed]

I'd totally get with Gaiman's Death. She has a winning personality.

[Nodaisho]

Very much so. And the whole hot goth thing. I don't think I have a literary crush either, though.

[satsugaikaze]

-sigh-
very true. i just compare every guy i meet to edward cullen all the time now, ahaha =p

lol that's disgusting. <__<

Do you rate them on the SPF rating of the sunscreen you have to wear around them, or just measure the straight-out lux readings? =P

[peach]

noo i just compare them like the way i see edward is perfect so i compare other guys to see if they're what i'd like to call my own personal edward.
............its weird.
i don't think anyone is gonna understand me.
i feel like i'm the only person who still likes twilight =\

[Nodaisho]

I think we understand what you are saying, we are just having fun.

If I were to have my own edward, I would want him to be less stalkery, less marty-stu-ish, and female. Oh yeah, and alive. Preferably not called edward, as well.

[CarrionMan]

Personally, whatever girl I'm dating, I'm just hoping her Edward isn't as cheesy as Edward. Seriously, I saw a lactose intolerant person die reading Twilight.

[Jimmy the Squid]

...Because it's...creamy?

[Nodaisho]

Thank you oh so goddamn much for that mental image, Jimmy.

[peach]

I think we understand what you are saying, we are just having fun.

If I were to have my own edward, I would want him to be less stalkery, less marty-stu-ish, and female. Oh yeah, and alive. Preferably not called edward, as well.

well,....good! =D haha

[ampersandwitch]

i feel like i'm the only person who still likes twilight =\

Sorry to be Busting your Balls, but I think one of the main reasons that we all rag on Twilight is because it's so undeservingly popular.  I'm quite personally really shocked that it's gotten to the level of popularity that it has, and kind disappointed to boot.

[peach]

how could you ever have thought that it would never get this big?
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TEENAGE GIRLS LOVE VAMPIRES?
haha silly! =p

[ampersandwitch]

There are a variety of things wrong with your post.  I will address the most prevalent. 
The 'vampires' in the series are hardly that.  The Cullens are able to control their bloodlust, enter society, and they have no weaknesses.  They even sparkle in the sunlight, effectively ruining the best metaphor I have seen for the fact that they are 'damned' creatures.  Getting staked through the heart probably has minimal effect, but damned if I can remember that from the mythos of the book.
Additionally, the problem isn't just the demographic of teenage girls, but the incidence of Twimoms across the nation, and even (somewhat inexplicably) my male bus driver.

[Alex C]

Vampires have always been more powerful as metaphors and symbols than as spooky creatures that scare people. Vampires have strong, virtually unmanageable desires and in many interpretations incite the same feelings in their victims. People can relate to longing, but they can't really relate to any of the rest of the vampire traits. Vampire weaknesses are often just vestigial plot devices, just as Edward's vampire status is a plot device to keep him and Bella from simply jumping eachother's bones. Really, the core of most teen oriented vampire fiction doesn't have all that much to do with vampire physiology or evil; rather, it's about wanting things so badly that you just don't know what to do with yourself any longer, a sentiment that many people in the throes of puberty can relate to. Twilight takes all that and puts it into a non-threatening package. I'm not really surprised at all.

[Chesire Cat]

Alex C, you are by far my fav poster.  Not just this topic but in general.

[ampersandwitch]

Twilight takes all that and puts it into a non-threatening package. I'm not really surprised at all.

So regardless of its quality, anything that fulfills all of those qualities will sell like hotcakes?  That doesn't seem quite right to me, especially because my main qualm with the series is not the inclusion of the (albeit neutered) vampire, but instead the quality and substance of its story. 

[Alex C]

What it comes down to is purity. I consider the extreme, obsessive focus of the books to be a fatal flaw-- even moreso than the crappy writing. But for a young woman who is first dealing with lust, longing and the not unjustified fear of the potential consequences of acting on these desires, these books are like pure, unadulterated heroin. There is no filler here, no larger moral issues at play, just a young woman who wants what she wants and struggles to cope with that. These young women don't want to be told that their world view and desires are juvenile or shallow, they just want to feel safe and get the person they love. The issues the book alludes to are real but the end result boils down to pure, escapist fantasy-- there is no real loss, Edward comes through for Bella in the end and everyone walks away better for it. Basically, what I'm saying is that Stephanie Meyer was just brazen enough to think that such a narrow book could succeed and was rewarded for it. That Twimoms exist is just a simple reminder that there really isn't an expiration date on relating to and remembering youthful dreams, even if you don't perhaps approach things with that kind of single-minded intensity anymore.

[Jimmy the Squid]

You also have to remember that these books are kind of written to appeal to the widest possible audience. Lowest common denominator kind of stuff yeah? Also the demographic is the 12 - 15 year old girl bracket where vampires are both mysterious and sexy (and to reiterate what Alex C was saying, completely harmless). Considering that most of the people on this forum are university aged and (reasonably intelligent), it's not surprising that not a lot of people here can appreciate the books.

[Surgoshan]

I'd like to challenge the notion that sexy vampires are somehow new and limited to young girls.

Go back to Bram Stoker's Dracula and you will find vampires rendered as hypersexualized beings.  They're also indescribably evil, but sexy just the same.

I was not alone. The room was the same, unchanged in any way since I came into it. I could see along the floor, in the brilliant moonlight, my own footsteps marked where I had disturbed the long accumulation of dust. In the moonlight opposite me were three young women, ladies by their dress and manner. I thought at the time that I must be dreaming when I saw them, they threw no shadow on the floor. They came close to me, and looked at me for some time, and then whispered together. Two were dark, and had high aquiline noses, like the Count, and great dark, piercing eyes, that seemed to be almost red when contrasted with the pale yellow moon. The other was fair, as fair as can be, with great masses of golden hair and eyes like pale sapphires. I seemed somehow to know her face, and to know it in connection with some dreamy fear, but I could not recollect at the moment how or where. All three had brilliant white teeth that shone like pearls against the ruby of their voluptuous lips. There was something about them that made me uneasy, some longing and at the same time some deadly fear. I felt in my heart a wicked, burning desire that they would kiss me with those red lips. It is not good to note this down, lest some day it should meet Mina's eyes and cause her pain, but it is the truth. They whispered together, and then they all three laughed, such a silvery, musical laugh, but as hard as though the sound never could have come through the softness of human lips. It was like the intolerable, tingling sweetness of waterglasses when played on by a cunning hand. The fair girl shook her head coquettishly, and the other two urged her on.

One said, "Go on! You are first, and we shall follow. Yours is the right to begin."

The other added, "He is young and strong. There are kisses for us all."

I lay quiet, looking out from under my eyelashes in an agony of delightful anticipation. The fair girl advanced and bent over me till I could feel the movement of her breath upon me. Sweet it was in one sense, honey-sweet, and sent the same tingling through the nerves as her voice, but with a bitter underlying the sweet, a bitter offensiveness, as one smells in blood.

I was afraid to raise my eyelids, but looked out and saw perfectly under the lashes. The girl went on her knees, and bent over me, simply gloating. There was a deliberate voluptuousness which was both thrilling and repulsive, and as she arched her neck she actually licked her lips like an animal, till I could see in the moonlight the moisture shining on the scarlet lips and on the red tongue as it lapped the white sharp teeth. Lower and lower went her head as the lips went below the range of my mouth and chin and seemed to fasten on my throat. Then she paused, and I could hear the churning sound of her tongue as it licked her teeth and lips, and I could feel the hot breath on my neck. Then the skin of my throat began to tingle as one's flesh does when the hand that is to tickle it approaches nearer, nearer. I could feel the soft, shivering touch of the lips on the super sensitive skin of my throat, and the hard dents of two sharp teeth, just touching and pausing there. I closed my eyes in languorous ecstasy and waited, waited with beating heart.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Well, yeah vampires have always been the repositorys of everything that "polite society" tries to push to the sidelines: lust, rage, hunger. Everything about them is inherently sexual, they only come out at night, they usually go for the neck, wrists and thighs, they're always intensely beautiful, dreamlike creatures. But they're just not scary anymore. The evil is gone and now they're either promiscuous bisexual fops (see Anne Rice's vampire books) or tortured souls, in a constant melancholic stupor, always bemoaning their eternal life and how they are doomed to loneliness or some shit as they date nubile young women (Twilight but also the Buffy/Angel relationship), being careful to never actually give in to temptation and make it anything more than a saccharine soaked melodrama. They also create a window for the "perfect guy". We've all been ripping on the Edward character for ages (because it's easy and fun) but consider that this is a dude who will always come through for you, will never hurt you or allow you to come to harm, doesn't look at another woman and totally wants to fuck you in ways that are probably illegal in certain states but he will totally never put any pressure on the girl because he doesn't want her to be cursed or something similar. This leaves it open for the female to be the active sexual agent, something obviously frowned upon in American society at the very least, and be constantly hounding him for sexy-times, advances which he, of course, rebuffs to protect the stupid, vapid and devoid of character girl. Next to that, it is probably pretty easy to overlook that he is overprotective, possessive, murderous and fiercely territorial.

Girl: Oh you're so brooding and melancholy/sparkly! Take me now!
Vampire Boy: No, I must not! For in doing so I would lose control and kill you or turn you into a vampire like me and stuff. It would be bad, trust me.
Girl: But I'm totally hot and shit. Seriously, would you look at these breasts? Totally hot. Let's bone.
Vampire Boy: No seriously we can't.
Girl: But why? I'm so hot!
Vampire Boy: I just told you. So no. Now I have to go be creepy and sad. Then later I'll watch you sleep and not tell you about it, then cut the brakes on your car for lending that guy your protractor in maths class.

[Alex C]

Yeah, I guess I should have stressed that vampire weaknesses should be considered vestigial, not the idea that vampires are evil. Whether a vampire turns to dust in sunlight or not doesn't hit me as very important, but the idea that Edward and his ilk are in no way actively evil does bother me a bit. In that sense, ampersandwitch is right when saying they're not "real" vampires, although I will forever argue that vampires since Dracula have always been more about sex than the critters themselves.


Also, one of my least favorite things about Twilight is how in decoupling vampires from evil they kind of decouple sexual desire from evil; after all, vampiric activity is basically a literary proxy for sex. Which, you know, wouldn't bother me that much except the books are still decidedly conservative. Edward is very firm about marriage before sex and worries about the affect of being a vampire on Bella's soul yet for the life of me there doesn't really seem to be any explanation for this aside from Stephanie Meyer being a Mormon and that vampirism is a proxy for sex.


Sorry about the sheer number of edits and awkward language. I am a very shitty writer.

[ampersandwitch]

Even if you were a shitty writer (which you are not), it doesn't mean anything about your future because you could always write a completely two-dimensional novel about supernatural high school romance and have a huge cut of money at the end of the day.

[Alex C]

I wouldn't be able to do it. I'd end up inadvertantly referencing a writer less recent than Neil Gaiman, immediately alienating 3/4s of my potential audience.

[Tom]

Dude, I'm a shitty writer - you're not a shitty writer. Also, I can't help but read Dracula as a text that intentionally subverts Victorian moral behavior concerning most aspects of sex