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[DNS]

Well, ladies and gents! Here we are... Nearing the end of one of the best damn television shows this side of Caprica.
 

Any guesses on some of the big mysteries?

Who is the Final cylon?
 (My top picks are Dee, Cottle, Gaita and Lee's 'dead' brother)

What the frack happened to earth?!

Who else is gunna die?!

...I love this show.

[lprkn]

I just downloaded the first half of Season 4 yesterday in order to catch up. I can't wait!

Lee's 'dead' brother

ooooo...

[DNS]

Yeah, there is a convo in the first part of season 4, episode one or two, where Lee is talking to Bill, and he says something like "would it be any different if my brother had walked out of that viper?"

I think Cottle because he is just such a cool character and everyone likes him.

I recently added Dee to my short list, because Moore had stated that the final cylon wasn't in the "last supper" cast shot. And in the place where the final cylon is supposedly supposed to be sitting, Lee looks really pissed off, and Tigh looks shocked as hell.

[Chesire Cat]

I am so thoroughly stoked on this.  I keep bringing it up just to get shot down by nonbelievers who clumped it in with Sci-Fi dribble like Stargate and Andromeda.

Also in the Last Supper pic you will notice 5 out of 12 are known Cylons.

[DNS]

You know, I actually enjoyed Stargate... but andromeda can suck my balls.

As for the last supper pick, my gf was pretty pissed when I told her what Moore had said about it not have the final cylon in it.

The good news is, that with me here, now, we can change people's minds about BSG.

[mietteissass]

Sweet, a thread to share my other obsessions with. I am sooo stoked for Friday. (Yes I said stoked)

My final predictions are Cottle (He has always been nice to everyone, cylon or not) or Gaeta (who is happens, is gay, how awesome is that)

But it could really be anyone. I dont think it is Lee's brother. According to the creators of the show, it is someone we have seen many times.  Someone said it was Tigh's wife. That would be weird.

I cant wait!

Miette

[TheDozarian]

I really wish I'd stayed up with this show...  I watched the entire first season and fell out of the next because of some schedule conflicts...  Best dramatic sci-fi show on TV...

[mietteissass]

holy Crap! I cant believe it.

[mehmeh]

Wow. Last night's show was certainly a mind-f*ck...

Moore better clear up what seems like continuity gaps vis-a-vis the history of humanity & the Cylons. 11 more hours of regular programming to do it in.

Then 2 movies? That's the rumours.

[bff]

there were like 4 major "WTF"s in that episode, my mind has been blown trying to tie it all together.

[Chesire Cat]

Watching it now!

[DNS]

But... Dee... why?

And Ellen?! wtf... my gf and I think that that is the cheapest, most lowdown dirty trick ever! I will be kinda ticked off if it turns out that it actuaqlly is her.

[Hat]

"Gods, that's always the answer with you, isn't it dad?"

There was a lot of drinking in this episode, which I guess I probably should have expected.

[Chesire Cat]

Ellen was a shitty character, Im glad she got killed off... unfortunately...

[De_El]

It'd be interesting to see the same actress play a character that is a lot different and have that play off the characters who remember her a certain way.  But Ellen was truly an unlikeable bitch.

[DNS]

It just bothers me when I think about all of the cool directions they could have gone with the final cylon... only to have it come back to... *shudder* Ellen...

[mietteissass]

The whole episode was a little disappointing but it was still OMG. I cried when Dee shot herself. I was truly shocked. My husband saw it coming when she was talking to Gaeta though.

And Ellen as the final Cylon. That is sooo F***ed up. It will be interesting to see if she comes back or if there are consequences to the fact that the final cylon is dead. Murdered by another cylon in fact.

I do think it is cool how Anders, Tigh and Chief all remembered their deaths. The shadow of chief was a bit cool.

I have a feeling this final season is going to be a WTF roller-coaster.

[supersheep]

I was watching this with two of my housemates. When Apollo went on the date with Dee, one of my housemates said, "Oh, she's going to die. You can't have Apollo getting a ray of hope."
Five minutes later he turns to us and say, "I didn't think it was going to be THAT soon."

Too much exposition, I thought. I know they've got a lot to set up and get through, and I think it will get better, but it was not the best episode.

[fifthfiend]

The cylon reveal was pretty good and / or hella-ass stupid.

The Dee thing likewise.

The Starbuck thing also likewise.

The president breaking down and crying and being all not-useful at all, that just sucked all the way.

Also lol at all of us being Cylons. Who knew?

(Also how the hell did they figure that everyone on earth is a cylon, anyway? Since when do they have an actual Cylon detection test (that anyone will actually admit works)?)

[Reed]

Did nobody else notice the fact that Dee found the jacks in the sand on the beach, then I think it was when Lee was going through her stuff after she died he found that she had her own set of jacks?

I'm starting to get suspicious that either there are a lot more cylons, everyone will turn out to be a cylon without knowing it, or they are going to pull some other kind of crazy mindfuck on us

[lprkn]

The Ellen reveal is kind of cool because I like the idea of Ellen and Tigh having this tumultuous relationship that spans time and space; they truly love each other and they've been through tons and tons of history. I do have to admit my reaction was more"hmmm" than "OMG" though.

I just hope they get all of the outstanding questions answered in the limited time they have left while still telling an engaging story. /impossiblerequest

[mietteissass]

(Also how the hell did they figure that everyone on earth is a cylon, anyway? Since when do they have an actual Cylon detection test (that anyone will actually admit works)?)

I think the jacks he found were the ones she had taken from the beach. She collected all those jacks and took them with her.

[Chesire Cat]

(Also how the hell did they figure that everyone on earth is a cylon, anyway? Since when do they have an actual Cylon detection test (that anyone will actually admit works)?)

Im sure the Cylons have a reliable Cylon test.  And Starbuck is always great, though she is kind of a spaz when dealing with stressful things which kind of rubs me the wrong way.

[Border Reiver]

Yes, one should be much more calm when you discover what appears to be your fighter wrecked and strewn across the landscape with what appears to be your corpse in the cockpit.

That level of stress should be easy to take

[Chesire Cat]

I would consult someone, has people do tests to confirm its hers, maybe some carbon dating etc since obviously there is weird shit going on.  I would not steal my dogtag/ring and burn the thing.

[Tom]

Maybe she's been a cylon the whole time.

[sithyeti]

I hope we get to find out more about what went down on Earth. Sure we know there were big explosions and stuff, but even with that there would still be some life left on the planet.

[mietteissass]

What is interesting is that all the Cylons are sensitive to radiation and they were killed with nuclear weapons on Earth.

[Chesire Cat]

They are effectively people, they are organic so it makes sense that radiation kills them.  But I am curious to know more about earth.  Was every earthling a Cylon and just 5 special ones went through time and space to fulfill the whatever prophecies?

[Border Reiver]

I'm thinking the impending human civil conflict is much more interesting.

[Chesire Cat]

Civil War is the dumbest thing the last 40,000 people can do.  Esp when they are using the GIANT ASS FUCKING BASESTAR that in the middle of the fleet to cause it.  If what the rebels say is true, then the Basestar could launch all its nukes and kill everyone before anyone had a chance to stop them.  So obviously they arent malicious.

Also Gaeta is a fucking tool.  God he pisses me off more than Zarek, who is slimy but usually has vision, and ultimately does the right thing for humanity, which civil war clearly isn't.

Not to mention 5 of the most important people to the Battlestar, Admiral Adama, XO Tigh, Captain Starbuck, Chief Engineer (or is it former) Tyrol, And Boomer who seems to be the highest ranking Raptor pilot.  Would have to go, 3 of which arent exactly replaceable in the fleet.  Its just a fucking bad idea.

[Border Reiver]

No one ever said that people think clearly. 

What you've got are a band of people who are in the following circumstances:

a.  Their home planets and practically every member of their species is destroyed by another species;
b.  They have been living on the run for over 4 years, practically the entire time in space ships not necessarily designed for extended periods of travel with little more than the clothes on their backs; and
c.  They have had this one little ray of hope - that they will reach a planet with more of their own species on it.
 
Now, throw the following into the mix -

a.  The species that destroyed thier own is now with them in their search for this other planet;
b.  Several high-ranking members of the existing power structure are revealed to actually be members of the other;
c.  The planet you've been searching for is uninhabitable, and the species that used to inhabit it is revealed to be your sworn enemy; and
d.  Your leader has apparently withdrawn her leadership and the lawful replacement is not being respected by the warlord in charge of the military forces.

Now you've got the prospect of yet more living in a metal tube looking for a habitable planet.   Even if there's no way the leaders could have known about the mysterious planet's condition they would still be blamed for its condition.  Any wonder why some people might be considering a shake up to the existing order? 

Definitely a change from my first BSG where, after a brief (1 or2 episodes) setting up of the government everyone pretty much accepts the wise and benevolent military dictatorship of Lorne Greene (I mean Commander Adama).

[Chesire Cat]

Bottom line is there *should* be martial law.  The fact that they still have a quorum is a joke.  Its a kindness granted to the people to make life easier.  Its basically a caste system of extreme socialism, if not communism headed by a toy government (who should be mere administrators), and a military head.

[supersheep]

The thing about Battlestar is that it is trying to show humanity's attempt to retain the things that make it worthwhile to be human - the rule of law, some form of democracy, stuff like that. That's why I kinda like Lee. It's why I really like Helo - he stopped the genocide of Cylons after all. It doesn't take the easy option, all the decisions the higher-ups make, they're all tough. Martial law hasn't been imposed because it'd be one step further away from the society the Twelve Colonies is supposed to be.

Also, communism? Really?

[Chesire Cat]

Well I havent seen many issues of people being denied medicine because they cant afford it.  Then again we havent seen much of civilian life.

[Border Reiver]

Yes, because all the examples we've ever seen of military dictatorships leads us to understand that they are the best means of keeping people content, encouraging industrial development/economic growth, etc.

Military dictatorships are good at one thing - generating the rebellion against them.  The only way that the fleet has managed not to shake itself apart before is that the rule of law and the pre-existing governmental norms were being followed (military subordination to the civilian government, etc)

[Chesire Cat]

This is a closed society on the brink of destruction hounded by an enemy of considerable means.

The regular rules shouldnt apply.

[Border Reiver]

Why?

What would make Adama more able to determine the proper distribution of food, clothing, etc. resources to the non-military portion of the fleet?  What makes him better able to decide on how the young people should be educated?

Those sort of decisions demand an actual civilian government - The Pegasus episodes showed what could have happened if the military took precedence over all - the actual destruction of the race, as the military took what they needed for their immediate needs and then abandoned the civilians.  While thye might not abandon the fleet, I'm not so certain that you'd get any kind of actual assistance from the civilians who are being used essentially as serfs of the military.  I'm fairly certain I wouldn't want to live in that sort of a society and I occasionally wear a silly green suit.

[Chesire Cat]

Im going to paraphrase myself and say "The government should operate as administers only" and all decisions that affect the safety of the fleet should made by the Military.

[Ozymandias]

Why?

What would make Adama more able to determine the proper distribution of food, clothing, etc. resources to the non-military portion of the fleet?  What makes him better able to decide on how the young people should be educated?

Those sort of decisions demand an actual civilian government - The Pegasus episodes showed what could have happened if the military took precedence over all - the actual destruction of the race, as the military took what they needed for their immediate needs and then abandoned the civilians.  While thye might not abandon the fleet, I'm not so certain that you'd get any kind of actual assistance from the civilians who are being used essentially as serfs of the military.  I'm fairly certain I wouldn't want to live in that sort of a society and I occasionally wear a silly green suit.

Like hell the civilian government is necessary for that. Adama has never been kept in check by the civilian government. Zarek is very right in one regard: Adama and Roslin have been in bed together since the destruction of the colonies (and quite literally so now). If Admiral Cain had been commander of Galactica, she would've executed any civilian government the moment it made a motion against her and abandoned the fleet at the first sign of mutiny. Adama was kept in check by his own morality and the compassion of Lee, not anything the Quorum ever did.

[Chesire Cat]

The thing is a benevolent dictator has the best interest of the people at heart.  So is it really a bad thing? 

His actions arent selfish or made with a desire to keep power, they are made to keep the fleet safe.  And I would say he is the most qualified to do the job.  But the undertones of the show are trying to reflect racism, not an abuse of democracy or anything else.

[Border Reiver]

And how then, do you deal with a non-benevolent dictator?  It is only a few steps from "I'm doing this for all our good."  to "Sod your needs, I need this to prop up my own power/to benefit me and my friends."

[Ozymandias]

Well, in the case of BSG, you're more than likely fucked if you have a malevolent dictator, since that dictator is the only thing between you and the annihilation of your species.

[Chesire Cat]

Yeah Border Reiver why are you so intent on siding with the fucked rebels?

If it was me, I'd back the team that *might* survive, not the team that will not survive.

[supersheep]

Because they're right? Maybe they're not doing it the right way or whatever, and they'll probably end up messing things up horribly, but the whole point of the thing is that if they give up on democracy, then why bother?

[Border Reiver]

I'm not backing the "f*cked up rebels".  What I am saying is that a military dictatorship is no way to run a society, and that the president has done a really poor job of selling the necessity of what they need to do to th Quorum and to the people of the fleet.  In fact it's such a bad sales job that a large % of characters now see no choice but to go against the duly constituted authority. 

I'm ready to wait til tonight and see what they've cooked up for us.

[Ozymandias]

Because they're right? Maybe they're not doing it the right way or whatever, and they'll probably end up messing things up horribly, but the whole point of the thing is that if they give up on democracy, then why bother?

Destroying humanity just to be "right" seems like a poor decision.

[Hat]

What is interesting is that all the Cylons are sensitive to radiation and they were killed with nuclear weapons on Earth.

This is interesting, because I guess in theory they could just write in that the Cylons had been using anti-radiation meds since their invasion of the colonies, but that would seem like kind of a cop out. I probably wouldn't mind it too much if they had to throw down the cylons on Earth in order to make an interesting and relevant plot point though.

Also Uh isn't one of the main advantages of a Military Dictatorship flexibility in a crisis? Whether or not a military dictatorship is MORALLY right doesn't affect whether or not it increases the odds of humanities survival. If I was in a similar situation I'd be fucking happy with a just plain ol' neutral dictator and we could sort the rest out once we sorted out the imminent and fast approaching death of our species

[Ozymandias]

Jesus, last night's episode was ridiculously good, but I basically felt sick the entire time. Surely no one can agree with Gaeta and Zarek's methods, if not their motives.

[Jimor]

Yeah, it was pretty intense. I watched the preview for next week's ep on scifi.com, and it really had an "oh shit!" punch to it, but I kinda wish now that I had avoided it so that I could let the whole episode unfold as it may.