Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Melodic]

Primary Weapon: Heckler & Koch MP7. Small, compact and lightweight with a high maximum range for a machine-pistol which makes it ideal for short- to medium-range combat, which is the only time I'd expend ammo on slow targets anyways. Ammunition is very light, and the nature of the round is perfect for headshot-only brain penetration. The only downfall here is that neither the gun nor the ammo are readily available, so this would be a "what-if" best-case scenario.

Secondary Weapon: Remington 870. Classic. Available everywhere, same goes for ammo. Really, the shotgun is the ideal zombie weapon because in the hands of an amateur, the spread on buckshot can cripple zombie limbs, while in the hands of an expert slug ammo can take heads off of torsos.

Vehicle: HMMWV. Preferably not up-armored and not packing any serious heat (zombies can crawl in through that opening with the M2, dawg!). Maybe even throw on a set of no-flat tires and a scoop to the front.

Stronghold: A flat roof. School, business, I don't care. No door rooftop access if at all possible. Bring enough food and water, and a tarp, and you're set until you feel like lowering the ladder again.

[Jace]

Primary Weapon:
Lu Bu style Ji: Shit is fun to swing around

Secondary Weapon:
Nan Dao: Shit is FUN to swing around

Vehicle:
Horse, just needs to eat, doesn't run out of gas, and looks badass

Stronghold:
Will leave the stronghold on horseback to find higher ground continually because it looks badass.

[Josefbugman]

Primary weapon: long range rifle+ lots of bullets from hunting shop in town.
Secondary weapon: shovel
Vehicle: Horse
Armour: none, just slows you down.
Battle anthem: Carmina Burana by Oroff
Sidekick: Unsure
Stronghold: 2 hearby castles+army base
Location: cannot reveal they have spies everywhere!
Last words: Probably maniacal laughter, suddenly cut off.

[MadassAlex]

My answer to every question.

[clockworkjames]

Ur doin it wrong.

Example -

Primary - Dinosaur with fireman hat on for protection. Good for chomping through hordes of zombies.

Secondary - Gets the job done.

Vehicle - I'd ride it for miles.

Armour - Optimus prime, I would be in his body.

Battle Anthem - I liek NOFX.

Sidekick - Polar bears.

Stronghold - Inside Hugh Laurie.

Location - LHC

Last Words - BRB. Self explanatory really, I will come back as a zombie.

[StaedlerMars]

All you really need is a chainsaw for a hand.

[supersheep]

Primary weapon: Running away.
Secondary weapon: Running away, but faster.

Seriously, using weapons is pretty much something I would only expect to do as I was dying. If there was anything more than an hour's warning, I'd much rather get a fuckload of tinned food, stock up on water, go home, start reinforcing every possible entranceway, and trust to the grilles over the windows and the strength of the metal front door to save me. Grabbing the closest thing I could find to a hooligan bar would be my only other concern.

Chances are I'm dead, though. I mean, if you are worried about the Zombocalypse, do not live in a city!

[Boro_Bandito]

Edit: ignore me, I'm a page behind the times.

[Nodaisho]

yeah, but the shaolin spade is lighter, with longer reach and you can use both ends on the living dead.

Also if its fast zombies your up against? Head for the sea and live on an oil rig, they will burn out faster than your usual shufflers.

Lighter? I doubt that, are you thinking of a full-sized shovel? I'm talking about those ones you see in pouches on someone's web gear. 2.5 pounds at most, for an all-steel model. Longer reach, sure, but you are going to have to tote it around a back-up weapon needs to be small. Not really worried about using both ends.

Melodic: How about a PS90 for a primary in the place of the MP7? Not as compact, but it is civilian-accessible, and the round is similar. I'm pretty sure it was either designed for zombies, or an uprising of armored squirrels. Ammo still isn't hugely common, but it is much more common than 4.6. Also, if you have a reloading station, it uses the same bullets as 5.56, just have a bag under the ejection port so you don't lose your brass. The fully-loaded magazine is only a pound, as well, with 50 rounds loaded. If you can get to some decent facilities, you could saw off the extra barrel length and re-attach the flash-hider/barrel threading, get it down to P90 size. Again, that would be illegal, but like I said, if you are getting charged for illegally making a class III weapon, you have won, because zeds don't bother with that stuff. Only downside is that it wouldn't be good for bashing heads.

The issue with having a horse is that it can be bitten, a car can't. You could cover it in leather like you should be covering yourself, which would make it better, but it still wouldn't be as good when the shit hits the fan as a car, preferably one with a high torque engine. Maybe a Diesel, Diesel tends to last longer than gasoline, anyway. A horse would be good for moving around close to your base, when the zombies haven't been seen near by your lookouts. A horse would be fine when there isn't a swarm, it would also be quiet enough you might notice the zombies before they notice you. If you have to bug out, though, take the car. Do the horse a favor and kill it before you leave, and destroy it's brain. It will be more pleasant for the horse than being eaten alive, and you won't have to worry about being chased by a zombie horse.

[Josefbugman]

They are more cutty, the normal ones have a tendency to be somewhat clunky, though I would probably use the normal shovel as, you know, I don't really have the proper one.

Also, the others longer reach and the fact that it was partially designed as weaponry should probably prove more useful than your standard (excuse the pun) garden variety spade.

[Nodaisho]

I'm somewhat confused about which ones we are talking about here. The Shaolin Spade is the one there was a picture of, are you saying that that one is cutty and was designed as a weapon? The garden variety spade is the one you put as your secondary? The entrenching tool like I am talking about is like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrenching_tool closer to the soviet one, but folding (including an angle that allows it to be used as a pick). They were used as weapons in trench warfare, like you would use a knife or a bayonet. Compact, which is useful for a backup weapon, as it allows it to be used very close in, and is easier to tote around.

Like I have said, I wouldn't want to use a sharp object if I was going for headshots. I would be worried about getting it stuck, since I'm not well-trained in using the weapon. That's why I would use the hatchet with the blade cover still on, if I could be sure it wouldn't damage the blade. You bash a zed hard enough in the head, and the brain gets damaged, and they shut down. Not as flashy as lobotomizing them, but effective.

[Josefbugman]

Did you not see the fact that it has a head like an axe? That says "cutty" to me.

I am saying as a secondary as you know, I don't have a martial arts class nearby and have no desire for actual weaponry that I would probably use a normal spade. You are using one of those things? Are you insane! These things have the reach of a normal human being and are all around you. I am sorry but I want to keep as far away from the gnashing teeth and rending claws of the unliving by having something that I can use from a long way away.

Or it doesn't go down and you have to keep moving and suddenly you are missing an important part of your neck? Personally I would not go for an entrenching tool or the spade because, if I am brutally honest there is never going to be a zombie outbreak. Its far more reasonable to prepare for a man made apocalypse than one foisted on us by fiction.

[Patrick]

Get me a FAMAS rifle. Standard ammunition size, good accuracy, and it's a bullpup configuration, so you've got a lot more control over aim because you are forced to use ironsights.

I would still use a Glock handgun (from what I hear, they almost work BETTER with sand and shit in them, hah), but I would also carry around a machete, a hatchet, and one of those hooligan tool things. Also, my beloved short KA-BAR (thank god I already own one) Can never have too many cutting tools. Also, a sharpening kit. Flint and steel would be a good idea. And I'll be in Alaska during the whole thing, so a tent, bedroll, and canteen would be pretty much all I'd need. Warm clothing, too. Only one spare set, preferably with lots of polar fleece so that it stays warm even when wet. And the backpack used to carry it all would have to be waterproof. No food. Too heavy, and Alaskan wildlife

Also, carry around a bottle of bleach with you. A good way to disinfect your tools and other equipment after using it to kill zombies. That way, you can use it for hunting or cooking.

[Candle]

i think if a zombie apocalypse broke out i would just give chaos theory a high five and submit. i can't deal with that shit; flesh eating dead folks is where i draw the line...

i would go out with a bang though, drunken medieval undead slaying- fuuuuck yeaaaaaaaah

[Nodaisho]

Did you not see the fact that it has a head like an axe? That says "cutty" to me.

This thing http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Monk-Spade.jpg? I don't see an axe head, and I can't see the edge, so I don't know if it's sharp. You could sharpen it, sure, but if someone actually used it for shoveling, you wouldn't want to, since you would have to re-sharpen pretty often, what with it being worn down by the rocks.

You are using one of those things? Are you insane! These things have the reach of a normal human being and are all around you. I am sorry but I want to keep as far away from the gnashing teeth and rending claws of the unliving by having something that I can use from a long way away.

Yes, I want something that I can use from a long way away. You know what that is? A gun. My backup weapon? Another gun. If they are all around you, you won't be able to hold them all off with a melee weapon. You have to keep moving while engaging them, to keep them from surrounding you. The case where I would be using a melee weapon, I would be extremely close in, and wouldn't be guaranteed enough space to swing around something bigger than an entrenching tool.

Or it doesn't go down and you have to keep moving and suddenly you are missing an important part of your neck?

You are holding them off with the other hand if you have to, leather covering every inch of skin, up to the top of the neck, then a helmet of some sort. If you are hand-to-hand, you are already in trouble, and I really don't see how the situation you described is different than with any melee weapon besides a 20 foot pike.

Personally I would not go for an entrenching tool or the spade because, if I am brutally honest there is never going to be a zombie outbreak. Its far more reasonable to prepare for a man made apocalypse than one foisted on us by fiction.

Hey... that's what the zombie spies say! Get him!

Realistically, though, that would change the gear choice, but not the tactics choice. Some people would be using the same rifle, but I would probably go with an FAL, camo, ballistic vest with inserts, but still carrying a hatchet, entrenching tool, and hooligan bar (it would be nice if you have an entranching tool with fold-out bits like the hooligan bar).

Patrick, the bleach can also be used to purify water, though it is rather nasty tasting. I'd probably recommend a shotgun as a second gun, as well. Loaded with hardcast lead slugs, because you have polar bears to deal with, and a 5.56 isn't going to be much use against one of them. Alternately, you could get a .45-70 gun, that would be nice and long range too, and works against bear.

edit: just noticed IronFist's edit of weapon choice on the last page. Those are good suggestions, but the caliber is heavier than you need for zombies, I'd go for an SKS, especially if you could get a reliable 30-round magazine one. They are also cheap as anything, you could outfit 10 people with one for the price of one AR-15.

[Patrick]

because you have polar bears to deal with

Polar bears do not exist on the island I'll be on. As for the water argument, there are so many rivers that I can just straight drink out of. My biggest concern would be the rivers icing over during winter, but even then, that's what the hatchet, flint, and steel are for. I can just loot a pot out of somebody's house and use it to heat ice and melt it, then drink that.

[Nodaisho]

Ah, no polar bears will make things easier. I was just adding another use for the bleach, if you don't have to use it, that is better.

[Patrick]

Southeast Alaska, specifically the Tongass Rainforest (which Baranof Island has plenty of shares in), is probably the best place I can think of to be in case of a civilization-ending global clusterfuck. When the shit goes down I am -set-. There's tons of places in my town to loot for gear. The town is only 8,000 people, so I won't have to worry about anywhere near as many targets as I would in a bigger city. And in Alaska, if you don't want to be found, you will not be found. Ever.

[Christophe]

Guys I wonder why no one has made a submachine gun chambered in magnum calibers. Like, say an MP5 chambered in .357 magnum. That would be tits for fighting off zombies with. Would there be just too much recoil?

[Nodaisho]

Well, magnums are rimmed rounds, which make them feed worse from a box magazine. The closest I can think of is an MP5 in 10mm, which is between .357 magnum and .44 magnum for power. Around the .41 magnum, but that one isn't as commonly known.

[Patrick]

I imagine the recoil would be a bitch too, though. It'd be like using a Deagle when all you really need is a Sig.

[Nodaisho]

Nah, 10mm recoil isn't much more than .45, and an MP5 is pretty heavy, wikipedia says the 10mm version is 5.9 pounds fixed stock, 6.3 retractable. Should be nice and controllable.

[sean]

Paging Khar to this thread. Khar, this thread please.

[Alex C]

Uh, Nodaisho, you know that tommy guns were .45s, right? And that they were known for excessive muzzle climb despite their (by modern standards) excessive weight?

[Inlander]

Sidekick - Polar bears.

Sure that seems like a good idea on paper, but if the polar bear gets zombified, you're fucked.

[Nodaisho]

I would guess that the issue with the Thompson was the stock. Look at the way it is angled, the muzzle climb would be more with that than with a straight-back stock, like most modern rifles have. Sort of like how the old colt Single Action Army revolvers had those plowshare handles, it rocked the gun back so you could thumb the hammer more easily. The recoil impulse for a 10.6 pound Thompson (that would be empty, so it would actually weigh more) comes out to 1.03 pounds per second of recoil energy, with the gun recoiling at 4 feet per second.

There is a vid here that shows a 10mm MP5 (could be a .40, but they say it is a 10mm), note how much the technique makes a difference in muzzle rise. The first guy doesn't pull in and down at all, so it goes up a ways. The second guy pulls hard enough that it actually goes down a bit. Either way, that recoil isn't half bad. It is really hard to say how strong the recoil is without firing it yourself, though, since it looks so different depending on the person.

Inlander: Simple, get them some armor. They did it in the golden compass, it should work fine.

[Alex C]

I'm pretty confident in my choices.

[Nodaisho]

That motorcross armor? Probably would work pretty well. Who is the sidekick? Besides being from the '80s. I've got an idea for mine, now.

[Alex C]

Dude, it's fuckin' MacGyver. Also, I think I should get bonus points for the fact that even my fictional character (and the actor that plays him) are from Minnesota.

And yeah, it's motocross armor. My strategy would be predicated on avoiding direct conflict, (hence the hooligan bar and multi-tool instead of true weapons) so relatively practical and light weight armor that protects against incidental cuts and abrasions (and thus, infection) hits  me as a bigger priority than trying to find riot gear or something. Any situations where the bar or the armor isn't enough is a situation I should be running/pedaling from.

[Dazed]

[Nodaisho]

Ah, okay. I was born in '91, I think MacGyver was done by then.



The vehicle might not be ideal, but it wouldn't be used often, either. Secondary is the M4 Spectre, 50 round magazine of 9mm, extremely compact SMG with a folding stock. The final words depend on whether I am in a composed enough state of mind to make a joke or not.

[jhocking]

All you really need is a chainsaw for a hand.

People keep thinking that's the funny one but they are wrong!

EVIL DEAD 2 4 EVA

[StaedlerMars]

I don't actually think that's the funny one, it's just the first picture that I found that was large enough.

I liked 1 better. Also, the musical was pretty damned good.

[Spluff]

[Patrick]

Guys I think he's got a pretty solid plan there

[Dazed]

The battle anthem will ruin everything.

[Johnny C]

Wrap up the thread, folks.

[Iron_Fist]

[Neskah]

[Tom]

EMBRACE CHANGE

[Iron_Fist]

Someone said change?

[Patrick]

He is my weapon of choice.

[clockworkjames]

Primary
Right Fist
Secondary
Left Fist
Vehicle
My legs, one step at a time
Armour
The clothes on my back
Battle Anthem
See Sidekick
Side Kick
Pack of Dogs/Wolves whatever.
Stronghold
My pants, wherever they may be
Location
Wherever I am
Last words
lol lok at u guys expectin to die

Primary - Arnie.

Secondary - Arnie.

Vehicle - Arnie and his Chopper. (say it, you know you want to).

Armour - Arnie.

Battle Anthem - GET TO ZEE CHOPPAH, NAO!

Sidekick - Arnie.

Stronghold - Inside Arnie.

Location - Wherever Arnie is.

Last Words - Refer to pic.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

oh god you guys i got the klobb.  why aren't there any good guns on this map.

P.S., Spluff, I think I found a flaw in your plan.

[Mr. Skawronska]

Good options all.  I had a Great Wall O Text to post, but you know what?

I don't need to impress you with my hobbies.

Since I can't photoshop worth a crap, I'll just list my options:

1) Primary Weapon: AR-15A2 16" Patrolman's Carbine
2) Secondary Weapon: Kel-Tec Sub-2000G Carbine
3) Tertiary Weapon: Glock 17 in Glock Sport/Combat holster
4) Vehicle: My POV, whatever it happens to be.
5) Armor: My vest.
6) Battle Anthem: "Twilight Zone" by Golden Earring: "You will come to know, when the bullet hits the bone."
7) Sidekick(s): EMSHamguy and The Gouge
8) Stronghold: My home
9) Location: Tampa
10) Last words: "Now you know why I have THIS!"


I had a lot of commentary, from refuting the "Glock doesn't make a .357" to "Beltfeds are a good choice against zombies."

And then I realized all of my knowledge was grounded in REALITY and many of you have absolutely no frame of reference outside of Hollywood, video games, and television.

So I decided not to bother.

But I will answer this one question:

"Have you ever fired a pistol?"

Considering I've been qualifying multi-caliber since 1991, I can comfortably go out on a limb here and say, "Yes".

Among other things.

My toy store: Autoweapons.com

Suppressors are cheaper than machine guns, I'll probably be buying one before a full auto.
But pretty much only as a toy.

As far as integrally suppressed firearms...you can get 'em, and they're not exactly rare.  Again, as a toy.

Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.

Some of you have the right idea, though.  Keep working through it.

That's all you get from me here;  I have an entire website devoted to preparedness.  I am a poster on Zombie Squad.  I have a skillset that pretty much encompasses this very situation.

But you don't want reality any more than I want it here.  This is my playtime.

Thus, my post ends.  You may applaud politely if you like.

S

[Nodaisho]

Sorry, no applause. Your post was doing pretty good there, and then you started going on about how you are far more qualified to discuss the zombie apocalypse than us, and how all we know is hollywood and video games. Trollstormur has guns, I don't know specifically which, but I think he has an AR-15. Melodic has guns as well, only one he has mentioned is an 1911. I don't have guns, yet. Having a job and turning 18 comes first, but I have a shopping list ready. And if you didn't need to impress us with your hobbies, like you said at the beginning, why mention the wall of text, or mention it at the end? Being on zombie squad is great, but don't think that because of that, you are the only one here who "talk(s) about it on the internet".

Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware, and the LMT .22 beltfed upper, which is a .22 and I remember seeing quite a few failures to fire on videos of them (could be the ammo). Like I said, though, it wouldn't be for walking around, it would be for when you need to blaze a way out of your current base, because it has gotten too zombie-infested (standing room only crowded). Probably not a situation that should ever come up, but if you can keep them around for that situation, it would be good. Also a good force multiplier in case of unfriendly humans. Love means never having to reload.

Is the Sub-2000 sturdy? I've heard questions about the durability of the SU-16, which would otherwise (if you had good amounts of replacement parts) be a good choice, weighing less than an M4, and having a folding stock that doesn't disrupt functioning in the C version. I would assume the same durability problems would be true throughout the line, but I could be wrong. Being able to use the same magazines in your secondary and your pistol would be good as well.

Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?

Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that. It was intended as ideal. I had the idea of just having it as a pistol, with a stock lying around, and having the tools to modify it to attach a stock, but I don't think they make 5.45 pistols, just 7.62.

[clockworkjames]

Oh so you think because people don't shoot guns they don't know how to kill zombies? You want tried and tested? Okay,
HC - The Culling of Stratholme - 17/01/2009

Primary Weapon - Red Sword of Courage Okay so maybe it isn't anything special but it does the job, mongoose or Titanium weapon chain, I don't mind.

Secondary weapon - Armour Plated Combat Shotgun All tanks should have one (+stam gem OFC)

Vehicle - Black War Mammoth Because it's my new badass mount and my AV mount was getting old.

Armour - Valorous Dreadnaught Plate Okay so I may have a mix of HC purples and 10/25 Naxx gear, but one can dream no? Also trinks/boots/belt/rings/neck/cloak etc.

Battle anthem - Vent banter and NOFX white trash two heebs and a bean album.

Sidekick - Likme the restro drood My friend, pretty good healer.

Stronghold - Behind my Crygil's Discarded Plate Panel +20 def rating enc.

Location - Stratholm circa when Arthas went to Northrend.

Last words (in the instance) - "We rolling for shards?"

Mine actually happened, yours is all just speculation, does that make my ideas better than yours? NO.

So stop being such an elitest jerk about all you know about shoota's (which is apparantly less than you think) because there's always someone out there who knows more than you waiting to make you look like a 'tard. Maybe they will post in this thread?

[Scrambled Egg Machine]

Primary: M-14
Secondary: M1 Carbine
Tertiary: Fire axe
Vehicle: Bicycle
Armor: motorcycle leathers
Battle Anthem: Through the fire and the Flames
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Stronghold: Air Force Academy
Last Words: "Are you fucking KIDDING me?"

[Mr. Skawronska]

I wasn't talking about you, Nodaisho.  You actually had some pretty good, well thought out ideas.  I'll clarify for you:

Why wouldn't belt-feds be a good choice? The main issue I could see is that damn near nobody makes a lightweight one, barring the Shrike, which is pretty much vaporware,

The Shrike was mostly vaporware because they chose a poor original location for their factory.  Now that they're down in FL, they've started shipping the carbine uppers for 2500 each and the feed covers (which are currently being shipped to the patient customers who have been waiting 5+ years for the damn things, hence the vaporware comment is not wholly unwarranted, in fact, it is mostly justified) which, once they are caught up with both their pre-orders and the military, will go for another 2500.

It's not so much the lightweight concept as it is the ammo concept.  Beltfeds are voraciously hungry eaters.  You might stop ONE mob with three beltfeds, but the sheer amount of ammunition necessary to have in reserve in order to keep those beltfeds running quickly becomes logistically unsound for an unresupplied location.

Moving right along.

Is the Sub-2000 sturdy?

As compared to what?  I wouldn't butt-stroke someone with it, if that's what you mean.  If you mean amount of rounds downrange between failures, I've put about 5000 through mine with nary a hitch.  It's a very simple action with a big, heavy bolt and decently heavy recoil spring.  It's a blowback, so no gas system to foul, and the trigger system is STUPID simple.  So from a FIRING standpoint, I'd say yes, it's durable.  From a "Use it as a club" standpoint, I'd say it makes a better wiffle bat.

The SU-16 has been the victim of a rumor, the origins of which are a bit obscure, as to mean rounds before failure.  Also, it's been inferred that their barrels are not chrome lined.

When I spoke to George Kellgren a few weeks ago in person, he assured me that ALL SU-16 models are being manufactured with chrome-lined barrels and chambers, not just the SU-16D.  Then he showed me.  I'm a believer.

I still wouldn't buttstroke someone with it;  But that's the tradeoff for the weight, the fold-down bipod, the gas-piston system that doesn't crap where it eats, and a reliable action with many of the GOOD points of the AR-15 without some of the more glaring drawbacks.

And moving along again.

Why would a suppressed gun only be a toy? It isn't like you can't clean it out while things are quiet. A cleaning kit is necessary equipment with any gun for long-term effectiveness, why not clean the suppressor too?

Because suppressors don't exactly work the way people think they do; They'd be of limited utility in a ZPAW, and they make a barrel you're trying to make shorter for handiness, LONGER.  Many modern suppressors do not require cleaning at all;  In fact, at least one AAC model, the factory reps said, "The dirtier it is, the quieter it is."  Others are of a semi-self-cleaning nature.  Suppressor technology has come a long way since the crude drawings of the Anarchist's cookbook.

Other than shooting without earmuffs, there are just too few real-world applications for a suppressor for it to be much more than a toy.  But I'll admit that that's my opinion.  And my first suppressed firearm will probably be the converted Ruger 22 pistol with integral AAC suppressor called the Amphibian.  Very nice.  Looks like a long-barrelled Ruger .22 pistol with a bull barrel.

Moving right along.

Oh, and before you point out my suggestion of the 74SU isn't legal without an SBR fee or a machinegun fee if it was auto, I know that.

I wasn't even going to go there.  Instead, I was going from the point of view of the 74 SU's short barrel having a detriment to both muzzle velocity (already an issue with the 5.45x39.5 cartridge) and accuracy (especially the shorter sight radius).  A way to get around the shorter sight radius is to go optical, but then that's one more thing to worry about breaking under heavy duty conditions.

And while the 5.45 is plentiful and cheap RIGHT NOW, it IS an imported round, which can dry up with the stroke of a presidential pen.  If you're going to keep it for ZPAW, then no matter how much ammo you get, it is still finite, which means full auto is wasteful.  If you're not going full auto, you still have the velocity issues cutting down on your effective range with a shorty barrel.

In contrast, I'd recommend a full-length 74 (16" barrel) in 5.56;  I've been very impressed with the accuracy of the Romanian SAR-3's, and a little disappointed in their "remix" the WASR-3.  However, their barrels are ALSO chrome-lined, and with decently adjusted sights to a 25/250 BSZ, or a QD scope setup, could be used as effectively as a 16" AR-15, though a bit heavier but definitely an advantage in the reliability department.  Just remember that the 5.56 version of the 74 uses a slightly different hammer geometry.  The correct hammer can be purchased at Red Star Arms, or, I think also from Tapco.

By and large, though, the 74 is a good choice for a ZPAW if compatibility and continued logistics are not a concern.  Merely stock up with anywhere from 2-5 thousand rounds in the coolio spam tins, have at least ten 30-round magazines that feed reliably (Try them out before betting your life on them), and appropriate sight adjustment, and you're good to go.

I didn't address legal issues because honestly, I don't care.  It's your business, not mine how much exposure to what kind of risk is tolerable to you and under which conditions.  I was making recommendations based upon my own opinion and experience.

I'd also finally like to point out that merely having a gun does not make you armed any more than having a piano makes you a musician;  A tool is useless if you are not able to use it skillfully.

With that, I recommend actual practice with your firearm, a tactical carbine class that includes both technical and psychomotor components, at least one force-on-force class with emphasis on your chosen sidearm, at least THREE bouts in a FATS, and that's just for starters.  Basic Defensive Pistol, Defensive Pistol, and Advanced Defensive Pistol are also excellent courses.

Because knowledge and skills are things that can't be taken away from you, and with enough of both, the equipment becomes less relevant to your effectiveness than does how you apply it to your situation.

Finally, my statement was "Many of you..." when it came to hollywood and television "training"

And I also mentioned that some of you had the right idea in that same post.  Curious as to WHY you thought I was talking TO you when I talked about hollywood and was NOT talking about you when I talked about the right idea.

But no matter.  I've clarified my positions.  And without near the Great Wall O Text, either.

We can discuss logistics further, if you like.  As I said before, SOME of you (by which I specifically include you, Nodaisho) have the right idea, and some well-thought out options.  Those who fall into this category, I am happy to discuss the finer points and make recommendations.

The REST of you who DON'T fall into that category...the cluephone is ringing...pick it up.

It's up to you to decide who's full of shit and who has been there and done that, not me.  I'm comfortable in my preps, and mine are both FOR REAL, and ALREADY DONE.

S

[J-cob9000]

Man that is crazy, everyone knows that there is no where to run to.

You can run but you can't hide.