Topic: The Mann-Conomy Update (Read 135053 times)

Nodaisho · « **Reply #300 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 00:31 »

Zombie, since when do crits not work on sentries? I haven't played much in a while, but I distinctly remember killing sentries with the benefit of a crit rocket as a soldier. Level 2s and 3s, with engineers healing them.

JD · « **Reply #301 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 01:07 »

I don't think they ever have. You probably killed the engie and the sentry in one fell swoop.

McTaggart · « **Reply #302 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 01:45 »

Yeah crit rockets help against sentries because it kills the engy (engies repair sentries incredibly fast, two hits to full health). You don't actually do any more damage to the sentry though.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #303 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 04:28 »

But normal rockets take four to kill a level 3 unattended, and it only took 2, maybe 3 when that happened. Huh. That is odd, maybe it's the damage spread being low when I finally managed to kill one that was by itself by myself, and high when I hit with the crits.

snalin · « **Reply #304 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 04:41 »

I won't care if this makes him better or worse; it makes him funner.

McTaggart · « **Reply #305 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 04:54 »

Oh, it's probably because crits don't suffer damage falloff.

Your normal rocket does a bit over 100 damage at very close range, but that drops down to less than 50 at very long range. Crits don't have this so you'll drop a sentry in two rockets (sentries have up to 216 hp) from any range if you're kritzed.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #306 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 15:21 »

Ah, okay. See, when I played TF2 constantly was before I realized how useful paying attention to the damage sheets people made could be. All I knew was that 2 rockets killed the 125 health classes, 2 good scout shotgun blasts took out the 125 health classes, and 6 scout shotgun blasts would take out a heavy, if he doesn't turn and shred me first.

Am I the only one that doesn't understand why a rocket does less damage at long range?

McTaggart · « **Reply #307 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 15:42 »

Balance. And that everything (bar the sniper rifle, huntsman, stickies and the flaregun) do less damage at range. It's to encourage people to come up into closer range where fights are more exciting and busy (and fun).

JD · « **Reply #308 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 16:45 »

I bet you they'll release the Meet The Pyro video.

JD · « **Reply #309 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 19:56 »

awesome

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #310 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 20:10 »

wait, i thought his parents were dead

Nodaisho · « **Reply #311 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 20:48 »

So a smaller blast radius, but still the same damage within the radius, right? So you can still do good damage aiming at their feet? I might like that, especially since it goes 80% faster and does more damage. Having rockets go at different speeds is going to make a pyro's life annoying for a while.

McTaggart · « **Reply #312 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 21:24 »

I'd imagine they'll look different. They'll go about ball speed, except in a straight line. Awesome. I hope the demo's new charge lifts them gently off the ground...

snalin · « **Reply #313 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 23:28 »

80% faster... does that mean you can hit a sentry faster than the engineer can fix them?

McTaggart · « **Reply #314 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 23:43 »

Referring to rocket velocity afaik. However more damage on a direct hit so if you time your shot with another soldier you might be able to alpha strike the thing from mid-short range like you do with two snipers at long (except you don't have to charge your shots).

Trollstormur · « **Reply #315 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 19:41 »

no discussion on the cheese launcher? Yeah let's give demos some gimicky bullshit and give soldiers a fast moving high damage rocket launcher that gets really really better as you do.

McTaggart · « **Reply #316 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 20:07 »

Nope because I love love love love love it. The rockets might be a bit fast to stay unnerfed for very long though. Mini-crits in the air is a such a cool little detail to add (though if you can juggle it pretty much guarantees you a kill). It gives me hope that the shovel will crit from above.

I agree that the demo's gear looks pretty terrible.

Trollstormur · « **Reply #317 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 22:22 »

Good soldiers were a bitch before, but now they're terrifying

JD · « **Reply #318 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 22:24 »

The update will be live in an hour(or less). I love living on the west coast.

JD · « **Reply #319 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 23:33 »

Fuck yes, that sticky launcher looks awesome.

JD · « **Reply #320 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 23:39 »

Demo is in the lead by a little bit too.

McTaggart · « **Reply #321 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 23:55 »

A straight up buff to sticky camping. Gee thanks Valve.

JD · « **Reply #322 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 01:23 »

It demands the stickies be within view though.

McTaggart · « **Reply #323 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 03:19 »

I really don't think that's that big an issue. Maybe I just suck at demo but any time I kill people with stickies I can see both the target and the stickies. I think the ability to set off just some of them greatly makes up for having to be able to look at them.

Ozymandias · « **Reply #324 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 10:31 »

There's pretty much a complete symmetry between the demo and soldier updates. Both got a more professional, skill-based version of their main function, both got a secondary alternate that provides a buff, both got a scaling melee that rewards the brave.

Very well done update.

McTaggart · « **Reply #325 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 17:35 »

Update's out, sollys win by a tiny margin. They score boots that save them some selfdamage when jumping. Not too useful (not worth the loss of the shotgun) but good for dicking around I'm sure.

JD · « **Reply #326 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 17:43 »

The Sandman is still being fiddled with, hilarious.

McTaggart · « **Reply #327 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 18:14 »

Good. That things is not even the slightest bit enjoyable.

Huge spy buff though. Camera beard and a hat. Terrifying.

New A/D map looks like so much fun.

JD · « **Reply #328 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 18:16 »

I have had fun with it once or twice.

Trollstormur · « **Reply #329 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 19:12 »

Quote from: McTaggart on 17 Dec 2009, 17:35

Update's out, sollys win by a tiny margin. They score boots that save them some selfdamage when jumping. Not too useful (not worth the loss of the shotgun) but good for dicking around I'm sure.

no it means you can run right up to someone and hit them with that insane new rocket launcher and take like 0 damage.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #330 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 19:42 »

Have you tried it, or are you just imagining the worst? You usually take only half the damage you would be taking from hitting yourself with a rocket during a rocket jump, it doesn't eliminate damage completely, so you are still doing a good bit of damage to yourself if you try to go close-quarters rocketing. And you lose your shotgun, four rockets go really quickly, if you aren't hitting and running you are going to need your shotgun, those boots aren't worth it. The pickaxe, maybe, the new rocket launcher, as long as you have good aim, the flag, doubtful, maybe a few situations, but the boots? I wouldn't use them unless I was playing on some gimmick map that needs lots of rocket jumps.

I'm more worried about the demoman's new grenade launcher, that one seems to have no real downside. Seriously, the only weakness of a demoman's defense, aside from the possibility of the pyro compressed air thing or a spy, was that he only has one set, he blows those and he is out until he sets up more. The new launcher means he can't set grenades at a CP and then go to a different one, so what? Anyone that isn't a scout taking the last flag is going to make sure to scatter the grenades before they move on the CP, so it doesn't really matter. He can set 16 grenades now. One sticky grenade with a bit of luck kills a full health scout, spy, sniper, or engineer, two will kill anything without a health boost except for the heavy, those grenades are extremely powerful. And now he can set up a corridor of death with 4, 6, or 8 groups of them. That part won't require you to be a skilled demoman, just a patient camper.

McTaggart · « **Reply #331 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 20:38 »

And you can blow up your stickies through walls. Also you can leave a sticky at friendly sentry farms and blow up enemy stickies just before they kill the sentries. I'm finding it easier to fight close quarters with provided I'm retreating or already have stickies strewn about. You've just gotta aim at the stickies under their feet. It's a terrible weapon.

The self damage from shooting people at 0 range with the rocket launcher was seriously never a problem and the shotgun is way too useful to give up. [edit] if you're touching the ground the boots have no effect. If you're not they soak up one hell of a lot of it, though you still take fall damage.

Darke · « **Reply #332 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 20:57 »

I'm not sure how useful it is overall, but the Eyelander/Chargin' Targe combo is just plain fun.

JD · « **Reply #333 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 21:54 »

New sticky launcher is terrible for demo jumping

JD · « **Reply #334 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 21:55 »

for more than one reason actually

JD · « **Reply #335 on:** 17 Dec 2009, 22:28 »

Also I'm pretty sure I just played a game with Scotty, weird.

BlahBlah · « **Reply #336 on:** 18 Dec 2009, 07:29 »

What's with the spy dispenser building glitch?

Stryc9Fuego · « **Reply #337 on:** 18 Dec 2009, 08:22 »

Great, so now the Soldier and Demoman are up to 2 updates apiece to the Engineer's zero (the level 3 everything doesn't count IMO).

snalin · « **Reply #338 on:** 18 Dec 2009, 10:28 »

I'd really like to see different sentries, and maybe some kind of easy to build jump-pads to move your entire team vertically. Or traps. Allow them to make mechanical traps. Or to build several upgradeable level 1 sentries-

Or let them pick up other player's equipment and use it to power up their sentries.

They're probably going to make a new shotgun for him. One that makes repairs cheaper and ugrades more expensive or the other way around. or something else boring. I want more stuff like the new demoman melee pack or the huntsman or other upgrades that radically changes the way you play a class.

McTaggart · « **Reply #339 on:** 18 Dec 2009, 16:20 »

When did the solly and demo get an update before?

The spy/dispenser glitch happens because both dispensers and sappers are "build 0" buildings. It works because the game thinks you're building a sapper.

I actually like the new sticky launcher. It's great when you're retreating or on defense. The difficulties in sticky jumping are fine because the heavily defensively slanted weapon is slower to attack with. I also can't wait to see some of the cool trickjumps it'll let you do.

I really question the balance of demos getting up to having the second biggest amount of hp, the second fastest speed, explosive and fire resistances and a free gtfo out button every ten seconds. You can't avoid melee with them and you have no chance to get out of it once you're there and unless you're a kgb heavy they're probably better at it than you are.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #340 on:** 19 Dec 2009, 01:59 »

I thought medics were the second fastest?

It isn't bad for me, since I always either play soldier (running straight at me? Thanks for making it easy to juggle you) or scout (think of the demoman with the targe as the bull, and the scout the matador), but it will be interesting to see how the balance plays out. I wonder how the pyro will do as well, it probably depends on the demo's health (thinking about the eyelander), whether they can dodge the charge and whether they can compressed air blast the demo to stop the charge (that would be pretty cool), 50% less damage won't stop a good pyro from doing damage really quick, and even if the demo survives, he's going to be needing a medic or a medpack to avoid dying shortly afterward.

JD · « **Reply #341 on:** 19 Dec 2009, 02:01 »

Quote from: McTaggart on 18 Dec 2009, 16:20

I really question the balance of demos getting up to having the second biggest amount of hp, the second fastest speed, explosive and fire resistances and a free gtfo out button every ten seconds. You can't avoid melee with them and you have no chance to get out of it once you're there and unless you're a kgb heavy they're probably better at it than you are.

I've killed them with my shovel dozens of times.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #342 on:** 19 Dec 2009, 02:28 »

They might get a stun and a mini-crit, though. I expect it will be pretty easy to hit someone with a short-range charge, just tougher to hit with the long range charge, since they see you coming and have an easier time dodging behind something you can't avoid (if you can even aim you charge after starting it).

Of course, if you have your pickaxe, you get more and more dangerous the more they hit you. Anyone get that yet to see if there is any change in damage or firing rate, something to make it possibly worse than the shovel?

McTaggart · « **Reply #343 on:** 19 Dec 2009, 23:19 »

The second fastest class is a buffed eyelander demo or a very hurt soldier. And as a medic I can't do a thing about the demo.

I believe the pick does less damage to start with and know you can't get healed or ubered when you have it out. It's excellent for playing long, but if you're pocket I think the shovel is preferable.

snalin · « **Reply #344 on:** 20 Dec 2009, 08:52 »

A sword-wielding demo is piece of cake as a scout. Really, when they don't have the stickies, downing them anywhere with a bit of open space around you just became way to easy if you are a fast bugger with a shotgun. But I still want to know if the air-blast, FAN and turrets can push charging demomen back, since a demoman able to charge without getting pushed by a sentry is a perfect target for invunerability. Run up there and pump out nades faster than the engineer can heal? Oh yeah. But then again, it's a question about if the medic can keep a close enough distance for the demoman not to loose the invun, and inevitable his life.

there's a bit too many demos and soldiers on the servers now, though. I'm just hoping to pick up their stuff as scout or heavy, since I mostly play them, since I seem to pick up more backburners than anything else, even if I never play pyro.

Alex C · « **Reply #345 on:** 20 Dec 2009, 09:51 »

Yeah, the pyro is kind of the black sheep of the TF2 world, it seems. I like playing them though, if only because people tend to ignore them a bit as the soldier spams rockets everywhere. On more than a few occasions I've ended up broiling everyone and it usually leads to comments like "Seriously, was anyone shooting that pyro?"

JD · « **Reply #346 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 15:15 »

This looks like a cool skin.

Darke · « **Reply #347 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 15:18 »

My new biggest hate: soldiers using the equalizer and calling for a medic. Repeatedly.

McTaggart · « **Reply #348 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 17:43 »

bind h "say_team "I can't heal you if you've got the equaliser out""

-edit; for extra credit put that in your medic.cfg and put other binds for h in the other classes ones. Something long the lines of "voicemenu 1 4".

Darke · « **Reply #349 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 17:57 »

they don't listen

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Author Topic: The Mann-Conomy Update (Read 135053 times)