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Author Topic: Crooked smile, one eye raised  (Read 35567 times)

Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #100 on: 31 May 2009, 06:12 »

the Rite of Spring, fool.
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Avec

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #101 on: 31 May 2009, 06:24 »

Wow that just reminded me, does anyone remember An American Tail? I love the two first movies when I was little, especially since I, myself was a russian child moving to the United States at the time.

« Last Edit: 31 May 2009, 06:26 by Avec »
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Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #102 on: 31 May 2009, 06:45 »

Don Bluth would knock it out of the park each time back in those days. Between 1982 and 1989 he was basically unstoppable. Let's review...

The Secret of Nimh
An American Tail
The Land Before Time
All Dogs Go To Heaven

I don't think he ever really got it back after that, though Anastasia came close.
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Jimmy the Squid

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #103 on: 31 May 2009, 06:54 »

Clearly Bluth does his best work when anthropomorphised cartoon animals are a large part of the production.
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Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #104 on: 31 May 2009, 06:58 »

The implication, before I deleted it, was that everything Don Bluth did between 1989 and 1997 sucked.
Rock-a-doodle?
Thumbelina?
Troll in Central Park?
Pebble and the Penguin?

You couldn't pay me to sit through any of those again.
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Dazed

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #105 on: 31 May 2009, 07:07 »

My aunt produced An American Tail oh yeahhh
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SirJuggles

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #106 on: 31 May 2009, 23:01 »

You got a problem with Rock-A-Doodle?
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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #107 on: 31 May 2009, 23:03 »

You got a problem with Rock-A-Doodle?

Jumpin' JeHOsephat!
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #108 on: 02 Jun 2009, 06:20 »

I generally dislike anything that is derivative of a classic fairytale and to a lesser extent, musicals.

This includes quite a few Disney animated films! I find more original stories or historical derivatives much more interesting. Some of my friends still at uni are still friggin' glued to the classics and all the pastiche singing. I ask them why and they all go goo goo gaa gaa like my 8-year-old nephew does. It's a little disturbing.

Some of the latest Pixar films, though, have been top notch. I'm looking forward to seeing Up, which looks a little more meaningful like the more recent original stories.
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knives

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #109 on: 02 Jun 2009, 22:12 »

From a filmic and technicl standpoint those old Disney films are absolutely amazing. Snow White was the first movie to have a prerecorded soundtrack and does many interesting tricks that aren't used anymore, but if you're going for story I understand the disappointment. (Disney actually only did three fairy tales while Walt was alive)
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MrBridge

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #110 on: 03 Jun 2009, 12:00 »

Khar is completely right though. The Pixar films can unfortunately not stand up in the slightest to truly amazing feats of animation, although the one that might even come slightly closer to reaching them (while still falling short) is Wall-E. My favorite animated films are Mulan, Hunchback, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle, and I can't think of any CGi movie that even comes close to those.


Mulan? Seriously?  Rampant Asian stereotypes are your thing?  It was nearly unwatchable.
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Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #111 on: 04 Jun 2009, 11:15 »

Mulan was awesome. Likeable characters, nice dialogue, sense of humour, beautiful animation, great score. I don't think it's full of asian stereotypes as much as it is full of disney stereotypes who happen to be asian in this particular movie. The exact same characters show up in just about every disney movie with a new name and face. Make them into fish and set it under the sea, it's no longer an asian stereotype. If a movie is set in asia, it's gonna have some aspects of asian culture in there somewhere. While depicting Chinese people in China eating rice and wearing Chinese clothing could technically be considered stereotyping, I don't really think that things like this should be held against a movie. The movie would probably have been better if all the characters were wearing Levi 501s and eating hot dogs I guess, while talking in a wide variety of worldly accents.

Complaining about stereotypes in fiction is a lot like complaining about it being cloudy when it rains. Yes, it's a stereotype. It's a work of fiction. It's going to have some stereotype in there somewhere, whether it's one that offends you or not. The thing is that people desensitized to some stereotypes and not others. Either every stereotype offends you, or none do. Either way, nobody really has the right not to be offended ever, people these days seem to think they do. Something somewhere IS going to offend you. You and ONLY you. Nobody else will bat an eyelid. Some people might even enjoy it. When that time comes folks, just smile and nod.

Everybody has the right to be offended but nobody has the right not to be. Be offended and deal with it like a tolerant person.
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Alex C

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #112 on: 04 Jun 2009, 12:55 »

Mulan was overall pretty alright. At first blush, I could understand why someone may be initially be a bit taken aback by the fact the movie combines an outsider's view of Asian culture with gender politics, but frankly, that kinda thing is unavoidable when you're making an adaptation of a several hundred year old traditional Chinese poem about a young woman stepping into a traditionally male role. At the end of the day, you have to work pretty hard to paint that film as truly regressive; the only real arguments I could see people making is that the Huns don't seem very nice and that it turns up its nose at arranged marriage, a practice that is still fairly common in southern Asia.
« Last Edit: 04 Jun 2009, 13:36 by Alex C »
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PapaFrita

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #113 on: 04 Jun 2009, 15:50 »

I'm not sure why we're talking about CGI like it's a genre. It's like saying you hate all movies made in color.

Disney's problem has always been that they're formula writers. The reason they haven't made any good animated movies lately is because their formula changed. Now, most of what Disney makes is bad live-action movies with tiny dogs/anthropomorphic animals and sarcastic kids, or terrible shows on the Disney channel with singing sarcastic kids.

I'd also like to say that Iron Giant is beautiful, and the way Brad Bird describes Vin Diesel's voice acting is strangely hilarious.
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Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #114 on: 04 Jun 2009, 16:58 »

Bolt was a fucking fantastic movie, it used all the old Disney formulas but was still computer animated.
BOLT!
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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #115 on: 04 Jun 2009, 19:25 »

Complaining about stereotypes in fiction is a lot like complaining about it being cloudy when it rains. Yes, it's a stereotype. It's a work of fiction. It's going to have some stereotype in there somewhere, whether it's one that offends you or not.

The Fuck
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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #116 on: 05 Jun 2009, 00:41 »

Mulan? Seriously?  Rampant Asian stereotypes are your thing?  It was nearly unwatchable.

To be fair, the Chinese didn't really say anything overtly negative about it once it got released.
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Sox

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #117 on: 05 Jun 2009, 01:23 »

This is actually the first time I've heard criticism about Mulan in regard to the depiction of ancient China. MrBridge, I hope you wouldn't find it rude if I asked what your cultural background was?
Girls on the other hand, I've seen plenty of girls get angry about Mulan because 'in the end she got soft' and 'she says she should have been a man to accomplish things'.
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David_Dovey

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #118 on: 05 Jun 2009, 06:49 »

Bolt was a fucking fantastic movie, it used all the old Disney formulas but was still computer animated.
BOLT!

Agreed. The end was fantastic, I nearly cried.

EDIT: Actually, scratch that. I wouldn't say it was "fucking fantastic" but it was way better than I expected it to be and at least on par with the more middle-of-the-bunch Pixar films which would seem like damning with faint praise if it weren't for (as previously stated) the fact that even the middle-of-the-bunch Pixar films are unbelievably splendiferous.
« Last Edit: 05 Jun 2009, 06:51 by David_Dovey »
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rynne

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #119 on: 05 Jun 2009, 10:45 »

Bolt was a fucking fantastic movie, it used all the old Disney formulas but was still computer animated.
BOLT!

I thought it was pretty good as well.  But Bolt's essentially half-way a Pixar film.  It was in production during the Disney/Pixar merger when Pixar's John Lasseter became Disney's creative officer.  Lasseter didn't like the direction the movie was going, and so he changed the script and replaced the director. 

I don't know how much of the original Disney production is reflected in the final film, but given the top-level alterations he effected I'd imagine Lasseter's influence was significant.
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David_Dovey

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #120 on: 05 Jun 2009, 21:18 »

..and here's to many more.
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Theriandros

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #121 on: 16 Jul 2009, 17:31 »

Regardless of that whole list thingy, and all the movies that are bolded, I have to say that there's a lot that aren't. Quite simply, the average standard of a Pixar animated film is higher than an average Disney film. Pixar makes memorable films about 70%-80% of the time. Disney movies, to me, have about a 40%-50% hit rate. (Granted, I'm a guy that's not a big fan of princess movies.)
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Alex C

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Re: Crooked smile, one eye raised
« Reply #122 on: 19 Jul 2009, 17:48 »

Man, necromancy.



Anyway, as I've said before, it's a wildly reductive thing to bring hit-miss ratio into this unless you want to start talking about eras rather than simply taking potshots at every mediocre project ever produced in Disney's 86 years of existence. "Which studio is more consistent?" hits me as a bit of a loaded question when you consider that the animation supervisor for "Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs" and "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" died in a car accident 5 years before John Lasseter was even born. Don't go blaming the Aristocats on the poor guy. Remember too that once upon a time industry insiders thought that Snow White was doomed to be a financial disaster. It was every bit as audacious a project as Toy Story.
« Last Edit: 19 Jul 2009, 17:57 by Alex C »
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