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[Ozymandias]

The character transfer mechanic used a ridiculously long password system, IIRC.

[est]

I don't get the love for Golden Sun.  I think I've mentioned before that I tried playing Golden Sun 2 once and quit about 10 minutes into the game because I had not yet played a fucking second of it due to a lengthy, non-playable in-game intro session where the characters carried on like a bunch of fucking twats.

So anyway, has anything new come out about WH40K:Space Marine at E3?  I saw an intro movie about it and a gameplay video from a while ago when I went to watch those movies from E3, but I haven't been able to see if anything new was shown about it at E3 itself other than the intro trailer I already saw   Either way, I am looking forward to it immensely.  Hopefully they will have a network co-op campaign to play through, because it looks like a lot of fun to play with a friend.

[Blue Kitty]

First look at the new Zelda

[satsugaikaze]

Someone I know told me something about how one of the new Zelda games are going to be Wii Motion Plus only.

I think that would be the stupidest move ever.

[axerton]

then again there have also been rumours that link wont have a sword in this game so...

[David_Dovey]

I don't get the love for Golden Sun.  I think I've mentioned before that I tried playing Golden Sun 2 once and quit about 10 minutes into the game because I had not yet played a fucking second of it due to a lengthy, non-playable in-game intro session where the characters carried on like a bunch of fucking twats.

People seem to like MGS as well

[Gemmwah]

Uncharted 2 makes me want to buy a PS3. Luckily, one of the guys I am moving in with already has one. He also has a Wii, and I'm taking my 360. Fully stocked house of next gen gaming.

[Felrender]

I don't get the love for Golden Sun.  I think I've mentioned before that I tried playing Golden Sun 2 once and quit about 10 minutes into the game because I had not yet played a fucking second of it due to a lengthy, non-playable in-game intro session where the characters carried on like a bunch of fucking twats.

People seem to like MGS as well

I really only like the older games.  MGS4, not so much.
That's why I want more post Snake Eater love.

[satsugaikaze]

I really only like the older games.  MGS4, not so much.
That's why I want more post Snake Eater love.

There's Peace Walker for that. Four-player co-op, Balloon-initiated wedgies for soldiers, Big Boss and a FLYING METAL GEAR

Yeah there'll be a lot more.

[snalin]

I don't get the love for Golden Sun.  I think I've mentioned before that I tried playing Golden Sun 2 once and quit about 10 minutes into the game because I had not yet played a fucking second of it due to a lengthy, non-playable in-game intro session where the characters carried on like a bunch of fucking twats.

The cut scenes are the bad part. They did the start of GS1 in medias res, and had the heavy cut scenes after that. The love comes from a pretty big and loveable world, and a class system and a battle system that's seriously fun to play. It beats all the Final Fantasy games I've played.


The whole E3 deal has made me realize how sad I am that I don't have any of the current generation of consoles. Zelda is the one I miss the most. I'll have to see if there's a used Wii for sale in the papers.

[Boro_Bandito]

Though I think to be fair if you don't dig big cutscenes and long, impossibly convoluted plotlines, with a few awesome exceptions most JRPGS are probably out for you anyway. That game got fun after the cutscene, didn't ever quite finish it though and I never bought the second. I should either track it down or get an emulator for it again... If what i see for GS3 impresses me I might have to pick it up, I've got so few games for handheld pleasure these days.


(hurr hurr handheld pleasure)

[Blue Kitty]

Anyone going to join the movement?

Cause I'm not

[est]

I dunno, they have a few good points but then again if it is a full game with length comparable to the first then why not release it as a second game?

Perhaps on Steam they'll release it at a discount price for those who already have the original L4D?  I dunno.

[est]

Also, apart from complaints about content that wasn't delivered for the original L4D and concerns that the community will split making it harder to find games the complaints seem to consist of "wah wah wah, this new game looks really different to the old one."  Like, maybe that is one of the reasons for it being a separate game instead of DLC?

[MadassAlex]

The question is:

Will the game contribute enough new content to justify another complete price-tag? If it's basically the same thing with new maps, then 1 year is far too short a time. To add insult to injury, L4D didn't have a massive amount of content, anyway. Lots of maps, and a great Director system, but there wasn't exactly a wealth of enemies or weapons.

This really just seems like a money-grab from Valve.

[est]

My main problem with your last sentence is that it is extremely out of character for Valve.  I feel it's more likely to be an honest miscalculation of what people want/expect out of the L4D franchise.

[MadassAlex]

It is certainly very out of character.

I hope that you are correct and that this is a grave miscalculation on their part, but there exists a possibility that they could yet succumb to the business practises of others.

[est]

Yeah, that would be really unfortunate.

[Cartilage Head]

 Oh heck and damn yes.

 Finally, a new game from Team Ico. I unfortunately never got to play Ico, but Shadow Of The Colossus was one of my favorite games of all time.

 The game is called The Last Guardian, and the trailer is just what you'd expect from Team Ico. BEAUTIFUL.

[KvP]

I hope that you are correct and that this is a grave miscalculation on their part, but there exists a possibility that they could yet succumb to the business practises of others.

That's looking more and more likely, and the ironic thing is that these negative reactions from the community will be more of a factor than anything else. Despite what anyone might say the main reason why this has been such a fiasco is that TF2 has had a lot of (free) support post-release. Thus even if they didn't intend it they raised their flag as being a company that services their customers gratis. Really Valve has done a lot of other cool stuff (Steam sales w/ deep discounts, etc.) but they've conferred a privilege to their customers that has been misinterpreted as a right. How easily they forget that Valve went to the mats with Microsoft to keep their DLC free on the 360.

The free updates were a pretty dumb idea in the first place. What they ought to have done is take a page from Bethsoft. There are little DLC packs that are free, and big ones that are charged for, like say the maps and the first gun upgrade (flaregun, sandvitch etc.) are free and higher tiers of upgrades are charged with a light fee. TF2 is such an impeccably balanced game that you could charge for the more powerful gun alternatives and it wouldn't really break the game to have people who paid and people who didn't on the same server. That scenario basically plays out with the clan'd versus the unclan'd anyway, given the prevalence of achievement farms.

Here is the mission statement of the 10,000 strong Steam group against L4D2 (which I think can only be comprised of L4D owners)

QUOTE
The few people here who defend the decision to make L4D2 seem to not understand what everyone is upset about. I've tried to summarize the most common issues I've heard people having in hopes that it clears things up:
* Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered
* Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release
* The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games
* The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes
* The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far
* L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic
* The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome
* L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before
* The community has lost faith in Valve's former reputation for commitment to their games post-release

The bolded ones (my emphasis) are legitimate concerns to my eyes. Otherwise it's just griping.

However this is just a sizably larger continuation of the same phenomenon that greeted Fallout 3. People bitched and bitched and bitched about it pre-release but you know what? At least 90% of them bought the game. Gamers are so retarded.

[Alex C]

Don't look at me; I'm pretty consistent with my bitching.


Of course, I don't bitch very often, but still.

[David_Dovey]

* L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic
* The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome

Oh come on

[Alex C]

It makes more sense when you remember that many gamers are essentially Morlocks at this point.

[Blue Kitty]

L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before

I don't quite understand this one.  Of course the release of content will slow down, it's what happens when a game gets a sequel.  I don't expect the first Team Fortress or Grand Theft Auto San Andreas to get new content updates any time soon.

[Melodic]

What you have to take into account with regards to Left 4 Dead is that it came into Valve's hands directly only very late in the development process -- remember how we stopped getting TF2 updates at about the same time Turtle Rock got acquired? It's because their entire workforce scrambled to get the game up to standard before release, and in this regard Valve acted more like a polisher than a developer.

L4D2 is, from start to finish, under Valve's roof (albeit with Turtle Rockians floating around). That's really important! I have nothing against the dudes from TR, but they were responsible for the meat of the game, with Valve supplying the delicious outer coating. A new game, even based on the same engine, could be radically different simply because it's 100% Valve product. I think this is the reason L4D2 isn't a series of expansions or DLC, and I think this is the reason it's a good decision.

[Alex C]

L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before

I don't quite understand this one.  Of course the release of content will slow down, it's what happens when a game gets a sequel.  I don't expect the first Team Fortress or Grand Theft Auto San Andreas to get new content updates any time soon.

I really don't know what you're trying to say here. The protesters understand and agree with everything you just said. That's why they are protesting; they claim that they want a fully supported and fleshed out L4D more than they want a L4D sequel (and all the consequences that entails) at this point. Personally, I believe it's unfair to really categorize Valve as a greedy company; I've been a pretty frugal gamer for the last few years now and Valve has consistently done right by me. That said, I don't think I'd buy a full priced L4D sequel this soon either, although I'd say that has more to do with me being cheap than entitlement issues.

[Blue Kitty]

My thing is that they already mentioned it with

Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered

I don't understand why they needed to restate and flesh it out if they could have just said it with that one.

I totally agree with Melodic and KVP on this, with the exception of the bolded items, and I look forward to playing Left 4 Dead 2 come this Fall.

[Johnny C]

* The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome

This one is hilarious, I mean head-achingly funny

[Alex C]

I don't understand why they needed to restate and flesh it out if they could have just said it with that one.

Valve could feasibly create content they hadn't discussed pubicly much less promised. Personally, I think that's a bit naive, overall, but people tend to expect the moon and the stars from Valve.

[Ozymandias]

Personally, I'm shocked that I haven't had to pay for any of TF2's new content. It's definitely premium content that they just give out for free. I don't see the profit in it.

[Melodic]

Free weekends and updates boost sales of TF2 so ridiculously high that I'm surprised that's not all Valve is doing.

[Ozymandias]

Man, I just looked up Newell's DICE keynote.

Jesus Christ.

Valve must be making money hand over fist. The standard sequel technique seems so unnecessary for L4D2.

I suspect that it's not going to be as cut and dry as "Here's some more maps and Director upgrades. Give us $50."

[0bsessions]

I only paid $25 for L4D, so I couldn't give two shits about how quick the sequel comes out. I've more than gotten my money's worth and I honestly would've been happy to pay $50 for it if I had a job.

[est]

Yeah, that is a good point.  I forget how little I paid for it, but it wasn't very much at all.

One thing I'd love though is for some kind of L4D mod or even game mode where it is more like your classic zombie situation.  Slow zombies.  Only die with headshots/brain destruction, no specials, very limited ammo, that sort of thing.

[0bsessions]

And, of course, one bite and you're done for. That would be very awesome.

[Blue Kitty]

I think someone made one of those Here it is

[ackblom12]

Okay, looks like I am purchasing this for PC this weekend so I can try out that mod. Goddamn you Valve.

[est]

Holy shit that looks fucking awesome.  Like, it's not perfect of course.  As Jon said, it should be one bite & you're fucked, but maybe that is just a little too hardcore for a game to still be fun.  The zombies still move a little too fast for my liking, but everything else about it seems really really good.  I'll try it out soon, I think.

[0bsessions]

It should be noted that the site linked to is having MAJOR downtime issues the last couple days, but they've got some pretty rocking looking stuff. A Crossroads Mall map and, of course Bioh4zard 2.

[Blue Kitty]

Vavle isn't done with the first game

[est]

I like how people are saying "oh hey, i paid $60 for the last one, now i got to pay another 60 for this one?"

No, you don't.  You can keep playing L4D as much as you want.  No-one is forcing you to buy anything.

[Johnny C]

No, you don't.  You can keep playing L4D as much as you want.  No-one is forcing you to buy anything.

As good as the AI buddies are, I can see the concern that a large chunk of the user base might just shuffle over to L4D2, leaving a sparse community behind to play the original game. Sucks for all the people who like online play but can't afford the new game!

[Storm Rider]

Someone I know told me something about how one of the new Zelda games are going to be Wii Motion Plus only.

I think that would be the stupidest move ever.

Not exactly. Miyamoto essentially said that they'll be keeping a very close eye on the sales of MotionPlus. Depending on how well it does, the Zelda game may not support it at all, require it, or work either way. Either way, it's not going to be finished until next year at the absolute earliest.

And I understand why people are skeptical about Other M, and to an extent I agree, but I'm still pretty jazzed for it. First of all, there's plenty of footage of Samus outside the suit, and she's definitely more reasonably depicted than anyone in Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive. Hell, I'd say she's even probably more tasteful than the Zero Suit model in Brawl. Secondly, it came out in interviews after the press conference that the people on the Nintendo side of this partnership are R&D1, aka the people who developed every Metroid game outside of the Prime trilogy. I know Team Ninja doesn't seem like the most immediate fit for the franchise, and their capability is somewhat in question after Itagaki took about half the studio with him when he left, but R&D1's involvement leads me to believe that this isn't some quick and dirty spinoff by Nintendo. I have no doubt that they'll be watching Team Ninja like hawks to make sure that the game both plays well and doesn't fuck with the source material.

It does seem like Metroid is the franchise that Nintendo is most willing to experiment with. But I don't think there's ever been a big-name franchise that was changed so drastically and effectively as the Prime series, so I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt for now. The one complaint I have is that the art design is a noticeable step down from Retro's work, which isn't necessarily a slight on Team Ninja because Retro set an extremely high bar there. But come on, you can't tell me that watching Samus slam an alien down on the floor by its neck and stick her gun it its mouth didn't look badass.

[Shale]

I personally don't give two shits about L4D, but in principle it's kind of a jerk move to release an online-only game and then six months later turn around and cut the legs out from under the community with a sequel. A game like L4D generally has a lifespan way longer than a single year.

That it's coming from the same company that's provided so much free content for TF2 is just icing on the very weird cake.

[Ozymandias]

First of all, there's plenty of footage of Samus outside the suit

This is already a problem.

[Sox]

Metroid Prime was the spin-off series. This was the plan since the first Prime was in development. Bearing that in mind, that makes this the first game in the 'main' series since Fusion and Zero Mission. I'm not at all worried about the cut scenes and story elements, as these were heavily present in both GBA titles and they were fantastic sequels to the main series too.
My main concern is whether or not the gameplay will retain what made each of the 2D metroid games what they were.

[Ozymandias]

Fusion was terrible.

[0bsessions]

I personally don't give two shits about L4D, but in principle it's kind of a jerk move to release an online-only game and then six months later turn around and cut the legs out from under the community with a sequel. A game like L4D generally has a lifespan way longer than a single year.

Ummmm...L4D is NOT online only.

And Jordan, you're full of shit. Fusion was AWESOME.

[Shale]

In the same way that Quake 3 wasn't? It's built to be played with people.

[Dimmukane]

You can play by yourself with the AI just fine.  L4D does not require a network connection to have fun playing, like Quake did.