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Author Topic: WCT: September 14-18, 2009  (Read 73839 times)

NeverQuiteGoth

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #100 on: 16 Sep 2009, 01:58 »

In reality, Merigold would be the hottest chick a nerd could ever imagine.

QFT.
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #101 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:33 »

The last two comics have actually made me LOL like crazy. I love Hanners expression in the last panel.

I'm seeing this end with some agreement to both help each other get some boy lovin'.
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Carl-E

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #102 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:42 »

I'm seeing this end with some agreement to both help each other get some boy lovin'.

Blind leading the blind?  I think they both know they'd be no help to the other in that arena! 
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snubnose

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #103 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:43 »

I'm seeing this end with some agreement to both help each other get some boy lovin'.
I strongly doubt that, unless Hanners gets over her serious physical contact issues, there is just nothing you can do.
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #104 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:47 »

And Marigold socializes online with girl-starved guys. There must have been many attempts to pick her up.

Looks like she either rejected or ignored all those attempts, most likely because she doesn't want a male version of her for a boyfriend. Or at the very least none of those guys really interested her.
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2009, 02:51 by themacnut »
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Carl-E

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #105 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:54 »

And Marigold socializes online with girl-starved guys. There must have been many attempts to pick her up.

Looks like she either rejected or ignored all those attempts, most likely because she doesn't want a male version of her for a boyfriend. Or at the very least none of those guys really interested her.


Good point - and she's into Yaoi, so she's probably more attracted to the good looking, well groomed, suave type... not the sort you're likely to find on most MMORPG's! 
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scarred

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #106 on: 16 Sep 2009, 02:56 »

I am gonna ship the hell out of Dora and Marten...wait

Man I hope one day they hit it off, they're a match made in heaven
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Freya

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #107 on: 16 Sep 2009, 03:19 »

I loved this comic.
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themacnut

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #108 on: 16 Sep 2009, 03:28 »

And Marigold socializes online with girl-starved guys. There must have been many attempts to pick her up.

Looks like she either rejected or ignored all those attempts, most likely because she doesn't want a male version of her for a boyfriend. Or at the very least none of those guys really interested her.


Good point - and she's into Yaoi, so she's probably more attracted to the good looking, well groomed, suave type... not the sort you're likely to find on most MMORPG's! 

Yep, to have a chance at that type, she'd have to turn off the computer, take a shower, get her hair done, get a new wardrobe (including more stylish glasses or maybe dump the glasses entirely for contacts), and most importantly, go outside more often, to the bars and other places where these guys are likely to hang out.

Oh yeah and she'd probably need to hit the gym too.
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michi-love

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #109 on: 16 Sep 2009, 03:31 »

.....Sorry Jeph, but you can't work your way out of this, any more than J.K. Rowling could with the Remus/Sirius/Severus idiocy. Just stop worrying about it, please. That goes for all of you.

Now, I'm not completely certain about this because I haven't seen where this was said, but I have a friend who has told me that J.K. Rowling has come out and explained the situation between Remus and Sirius (I'm not even touching the Severus bit of that, because, um, ew!) and... honestly, it makes more sense that a children's author already being criticized by the churches would have to leave the relationship between those two men as friendship - aside from some subtext that could help arguments. In fact, it also seems to me that several concepts of the books wouldn't have worked unless Remus and Sirius were indeed in a relationship; but that's all a different universe.

HOWEVER. Unlike with the multitudes of those who believe in Remus/Sirius, there was, I repeat, subtext that referred to the possibility. Whereas with Hannelore and Marigold, there is nothing.

They hang out. It's annoying - and seriously more than a little bit sad - that Hannelore can't have a single friend without people (both online observers and random canon MMORPG players) assuming there is OMFGGAYSECKS involved.
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Blackjoker

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #110 on: 16 Sep 2009, 03:43 »

suddenly remembered the man-bot Hannelore got from her dad. Dunno why, but I could see Marigold learning about it and wanting to..experiment. If nothing else, if it fails as a companion she can play WoW on it.
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danman

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #111 on: 16 Sep 2009, 04:29 »

(including more stylish glasses or maybe dump the glasses entirely for contacts),


Why ??  Glasses are a practical item ,  and big frames have a better field of vision (my own experience) therefore changing would be quite a dumb idea.
Also wearing contacts is difficult if one has astigmatism, since then they have a strange shape which does not go in well
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jonarus_drakus

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #112 on: 16 Sep 2009, 04:34 »

Sudden i find myself thinking that Hanners, despite her stated issue may suddenly feel inspired to try and meet someone (remember that little snippit with her and the guy that smiled at her from accross the room? Imaging if she had, like, SAID something!!!). I know evidence to suggest something like this would be particularly likely, but the shippers created thier demented little fantasy with less supporting evidence.

SHIPPING IS BAD M'KAY!
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themacnut

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #113 on: 16 Sep 2009, 05:12 »

(including more stylish glasses or maybe dump the glasses entirely for contacts),


Why ??  Glasses are a practical item ,  and big frames have a better field of vision (my own experience) therefore changing would be quite a dumb idea.
Also wearing contacts is difficult if one has astigmatism, since then they have a strange shape which does not go in well

Hey I'm all for glasses myself, and hate contacts (don't like anything touching my eyeballs). I'm just acknowledging that many people don't like glasses themselves, and can be less attracted to someone wearing them.
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nichidani

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #114 on: 16 Sep 2009, 05:24 »

yeesh, tell me about it. besides, don't you know the classic 90s movie formula?

nerdy girl - glasses = hot girl

... though i am still not POKING MYSELF IN THE EYE for fashion purposes, and i also really like  my glasses.
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giant_bug

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #115 on: 16 Sep 2009, 05:26 »

In reality, Merigold would be the hottest chick a nerd could ever imagine.

QFT.

Marigold is into Quantum Field Theory?  Cool!

I love Hanner's expression in panel 4.  It kind of reminds me of Tessa from Full Metal Panic in her ditzier moments.

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evilbobthebob

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #116 on: 16 Sep 2009, 05:31 »

QFT is a three-letter abbreviation with multiple meanings, as described below:

    * Quantum field theory, the theory of quantum mechanics for field-like systems
    * Quantum Fourier transform, a discrete Fourier transform
    * Quantitative feedback theory
    * Queen's Film Theatre, a cinema in Northern Ireland
    * "Quoted For Truth" - an acronym commonly used on internet forums.
    * "Quit Fucking Trying/Talking" - also an acronym used on internet forums, mostly gaming.
    * "Quite Fucking True" - another acronym used around the internet.
    * "Query Form Type" - Name for query forms
    * "Quirky Fag Tree" - Pretty obvious

Also, HAH at the last one.
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Random832

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #117 on: 16 Sep 2009, 06:24 »

I'll start with what pisses me off: the fact that both Hanners and Marigold were for no apparent reason assumed to be gay. The reasons they were assumed to be gay were borne of sexist and homophobic reasoning and stereotyping respectively (that is to say, Hanners of sexist reasoning and Marigold of homophobic stereotyping). People look at Hannelore, and because she's not constantly hitting on/flirting with/having wild rampant sex with any male members of the cast, and because she has reacted negatively to physical interactions with (coincidentally) only male characters, it's assumed that she must like girls instead. While all conventional reasoning, combined with her brief history of displaying that she is in fact very sexually attracted to men, points to her severe OCD as the culprit, we instead opt to believe that she must be a lesbian because somehow, in our subconscious minds, we are incapable of seeing women outside of a sexual context or in any context which may, itself, put them beyond the bounds of sexuality. With Marigold, on the other hand, it's the opposite. Marigold, right from her introduction, was shown as being unhygenic, slovenly and abrasive. In other words: not ladylike. And, as the stereotype goes, effeminate men are gay, and uncouth women are lesbians. And what pisses me off was that apparently in the minds of many (not just the shippers), her demeanor was more of an indication of her sexuality than the fact that she thoroughly enjoys man-on-man.

So... as far as I know, that's all stuff you made up just now, rather than actual reasoning we've seen written down from the Marigold/Hanners people.

Just sayin'. Nice wall of text, though.

I think the MarigoldxHannelore shippers are creepy, because there is no hint of romance there to begin with. They're just two socially awkward nerds, being socially awkward and hanging out. The romance is totally invented out of nowhere.
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Once again, that just makes them mistaken. It's not inherently creepy to be wrong about something.

To my knowledge no group of shippers for a male/female pairing have been characterized as "creepy" on this board, at least not to nearly the same extent as this.
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stale

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #118 on: 16 Sep 2009, 06:53 »

The joke in today's last panel is very similar to a joke in the scrubs episode "My Big Bird".
The garbage man says to Turk and JD, "You can guess how many times a day I get thanked."
Turk says, "Six."
Garbage man says, "Off by six."
Turk says, "Twelve!"
Garbage man says, "I can see how they outsmarted you."
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plethora

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #119 on: 16 Sep 2009, 07:03 »

... though i am still not POKING MYSELF IN THE EYE for fashion purposes, and i also really like  my glasses.

I love my glasses too. Glasses are sexy.

And the poking yourself in the eye thing freaks me out too, but you get used to it.
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IanClark

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #120 on: 16 Sep 2009, 08:02 »

So... as far as I know, that's all stuff you made up just now, rather than actual reasoning we've seen written down from the Marigold/Hanners people.

Just sayin'. Nice wall of text, though.

Do I really have to go through this again? Okay... imagine a universe where no one was putting Marigold/Hanners together but everything else on this forum that's been said had still been said, I'd still have the same feelings for the same reasons. Or, to almost verbatim state what I already said, it is not the fact that people put Marigold and Hanners together, it is the fact that both characters' sexualities were questioned (by people who were largely not shippers) to an extent that I've never seen before with any other characters. Like Jeph himself just said, there was no hint of a romance between the two. But this isn't so much because they don't like each other or because there's some sort of external obstacle preventing them from being together, it's the fact that they're both very definitively into guys. Now one might argue that the shippers are merely acknowledging but overlooking this fact for some wishful thinking, and they probably are, but to say the idea itself sprung out of nowhere, or to say that it was just too cute not to think of, is ignoring the fact that there were massive debates on Marigold's sexuality when her obsession with man-on-man should've settled it. And I seem to recall there were dozens of people who thought she was a lesbian without any genuine indication. So unless you're going to tell me that that manufactured ambiguity had nothing to do with the number of people who suddenly thought "Hey, I know, Marigold and Hanners!" you're not really making a point.

And just to clarify in case anyone else, shipper or not, feels the need to defend the shippers against me, don't bother because you're arguing against a point I didn't make. I do not, repeat do not, have a problem with the shippers, but rather in the formation of the idea before any actual shipping was suggested.
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Wiregeek

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #121 on: 16 Sep 2009, 08:22 »

Good comic! My favorite part was Marigold's expressions in panels five and six, and Hanners' in panel six.

God Bless the Clueless!
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danman

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #122 on: 16 Sep 2009, 08:41 »

yeesh, tell me about it. besides, don't you know the classic 90s movie formula?

nerdy girl - glasses = hot girl

... though i am still not POKING MYSELF IN THE EYE for fashion purposes, and i also really like  my glasses.

Hmm, it need not to be for fashion purposes - contacts are useful for sport (which i do not do) and they do not interffere with putting on welder's goggles (which i do , occasionally )
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ecstaticjoy

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #123 on: 16 Sep 2009, 08:42 »

Yes! Today's comic cracked me up! I loved the facial expressions, especially panel 6. Jeph, you get better every time you draw. Thanks!

Random832

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #124 on: 16 Sep 2009, 08:54 »

Do I really have to go through this again? Okay... imagine a universe where no one was putting Marigold/Hanners together but everything else on this forum that's been said had still been said, I'd still have the same feelings for the same reasons. Or, to almost verbatim state what I already said, it is not the fact that people put Marigold and Hanners together, it is the fact that both characters' sexualities were questioned (by people who were largely not shippers) to an extent that I've never seen before with any other characters. Like Jeph himself just said, there was no hint of a romance between the two.

Yeah, well, that's not how it happened at all. What happened was this, which prompted not-100%-baseless (sure, it didn't go anywhere, but it's also how it could have started if he had meant for such a thing to happen) Hanners/Tai speculation, which was transferred to this.

And anyway, what do you mean "both characters' sexualities were questioned" - it's kind of a homophobic attitude to say that someone not (originally - obviously they are by now) established either way is to be automatically presumed straight and anyone who doesn't share that assumption is "questioning it".

Nobody ever gets denounced as creepy for thinking a character might be straight.

Quote
ignoring the fact that there were massive debates on Marigold's sexuality when her obsession with man-on-man should've settled it
Why should that have settled it?
I started shipping when they started reading and watching yaoi together, since I know of three lesbian couples that started out that way.
There were people even at the time citing that, and not your made-up thing about her hygiene, as evidence for Marigold being a lesbian.
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2009, 08:59 by Random832 »
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maddness

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #125 on: 16 Sep 2009, 09:18 »

I am gonna ship the hell out of Dora and Marten...wait

EEEEWWWWW ... CREEPY SHIPPER!


I don't think shippers are creepy ... at least not until it goes from "___ and ___ would make an interesting/cute/awesome couple" to "I can totally picture ___ and ___ going at it ... in graphic detail"


P.S. ... What exactly do pneumatic ratchet pants do and should I be concerned?
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #126 on: 16 Sep 2009, 09:18 »

To my knowledge no group of shippers for a male/female pairing have been characterized as "creepy" on this board, at least not to nearly the same extent as this.
You see it a lot in other areas too. I know it used to be more of a regular thing for people to be called creepy for saying "[character] looks hot today!". Frankly it's the backlash against the supposedly creepy people that weirds me out.
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maddness

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #127 on: 16 Sep 2009, 09:37 »

You see it a lot in other areas too. I know it used to be more of a regular thing for people to be called creepy for saying "[character] looks hot today!". Frankly it's the backlash against the supposedly creepy people that weirds me out.

I think that because Jeph seems to be uncomfortable with the idea of his characters being sexualized and possibly used as fantasy fodder the forum in general has developed the feeling that it's just not cool.
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fifthfiend

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #128 on: 16 Sep 2009, 09:48 »

Oh ho ho ho, nerds are gross and lonely.

Man, nerds.
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #129 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:10 »


Once again, that just makes them mistaken. It's not inherently creepy to be wrong about something.

To my knowledge no group of shippers for a male/female pairing have been characterized as "creepy" on this board, at least not to nearly the same extent as this.

This is exactly what has been making me uncomfortable about the manner of discussion. I am a lesbian, you see. Well, 90% gay, 10% 'other' would be more accurate, considering I like yaoi. I didn't want to bring that up right away, since it kinda feels like playing the race card, or something. I don't know. Maybe I should have kept quiet, I don't want to upset anyone. Sorry.

I guess if I'm completely honest, I'm grasping at straws because representations of gay persons, and gay relationships even more so, are rare. You wouldn't believe how overjoyed I was when Tai showed up. I was like, yay! We openly exist in this universe!

And to the accusation that nobody did this kind of extrapolating with any of the male/male relationships....er, well. *blush* Never say 'nobody'.
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IanClark

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #130 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:28 »

Yeah, well, that's not how it happened at all. What happened was this, which prompted not-100%-baseless (sure, it didn't go anywhere, but it's also how it could have started if he had meant for such a thing to happen) Hanners/Tai speculation, which was transferred to this.

That doesn't even make any sense. So what you're saying is that a lesbian comes onto her, she freaks out, and that somehow means she might be gay? As opposed to the obvious conclusion that it might mean absolutely nothing at all? Since I remember that only vaguely, I may have to give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of entering the public consciousness, but when you say "sure it didn't go anywhere" I have no idea how exactly you think it could've. And that's what pisses me off (and at risk of putting words into Jeph's mouth, I think what pisses him off too). It's not the speculation or the fantasies or idealizing, it's when people try to come up with bizarre ways it could actually happen that don't really make a damn bit of sense. Or more to the point the possibility that for some people it's not a matter of trying.

And anyway, what do you mean "both characters' sexualities were questioned" - it's kind of a homophobic attitude to say that someone not (originally - obviously they are by now) established either way is to be automatically presumed straight and anyone who doesn't share that assumption is "questioning it".

Nobody ever gets denounced as creepy for thinking a character might be straight.

I mean it was questioned excessively. A recent anonymous survey returned that 12.9% of women were bisexual (although strangely enough the question: "Are you bisexual?" returned far less), on top of the somewhat standard number of 10% homosexual. So there's a 22.9% chance of any woman with no established information about her sexuality liking girls (Marigold), and for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 12.9%. So, in either case, to assume they were probably straight isn't homophobia, it's statistics. The exact opposite of bias.

Also, creepy isn't my word, or the word I would use. Or the idea I'm trying to convey. Seriously, I don't mean to sound like a dick but look alive here.

Why should that have settled it?

What particular reason would one have for preferring man-on-man to other pairings other than sexual? I mean, anyone who's not themselves homophobic is of course capable of enjoying a well-written male-to-male romance, but enough to get a t-shirt just dedicated to it?

I started shipping when they started reading and watching yaoi together, since I know of three lesbian couples that started out that way.
There were people even at the time citing that, and not your made-up thing about her hygiene, as evidence for Marigold being a lesbian.

That's not evidence at all though. Tons of people, gay straight or otherwise, get together watching anime together of any genre. Hell, that's what happened to me when I was 15. And even then, I started watching it with a group of three friends, all of whom were female, and none of them ever ended up hooking up with each other.
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danman

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #131 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:32 »


And anyway, what do you mean "both characters' sexualities were questioned" - it's kind of a homophobic attitude to say that someone not (originally - obviously they are by now) established either way is to be automatically presumed straight and anyone who doesn't share that assumption is "questioning it".

Nobody ever gets denounced as creepy for thinking a character might be straight.


Deputy of common sense speaking (points if oyu get which comic i am referring to) :

Excuse me mister/mistress , but that is sound statistical reasoning , coming from the fact tha generally , more than 96% of populace are straight, therefore assuming that someone is LGB without any evidence is creepy - it is the sexual equivalent of paranoia and thinking everyone around must be a murderer - just look at how he bats the eyelashes!!.

Enough said
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #132 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:39 »

Kakareen, please let me know if I piss you off in any way, because yours is the exact point of view I'm trying not to bash or attack in any way, and based on some of the responses I'm getting, I might be failing slightly.
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Shadic

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #133 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:53 »

I guess if I'm completely honest, I'm grasping at straws because representations of gay persons, and gay relationships even more so, are rare. You wouldn't believe how overjoyed I was when Tai showed up. I was like, yay! We openly exist in this universe!
...Dora? Sure, she's Bi, but she never hid that.
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Kartoon Kween

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #134 on: 16 Sep 2009, 10:59 »

Man, I haven't been on the forums in forever.  I forgot how much you guys like to talk!

...about a webcomic!

A-anyway, I ship Marigold/Hannelore in a completely platonic way.  I mean, shipping them in a sexual way seems kind of pointless, seeing as both Marigold and Hannelore are not exactly sexually attractive.  Who would want to imagine them having sex?!  If they were hot, then I could understand!
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Gespenst

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #135 on: 16 Sep 2009, 11:19 »

Comic 1492

I guess they're both going to be alone for a while yet.

But seriously, this topic confuses me. I canít wrap my head around all the vitriol flying around. Youíre treating people thinking that Hanners and Marigold would be a cute/whatever couple as though they punched your mother.

ÖAdmittedly I havenít spent that much time reading the forums, and none during the current arc.

lol, there aren't going to "Lez out", but are they going to "Lez in"?

I just had a bunch of weird ideas about lesbian themed super robots.

Let's Lez In!
Open Lez!
Change Getter Lesbian! (Which is a Getter 2/Getter Liger variant for some reason)

Öso thanks for that.

Did Marigold fart again? Cause Hanners almost looks like she's making the zombie face in the last panel.

I'm pretty sure that is because the idea of sex still terrifies her.


goddamn creepy masochist weirdo

I'm sure there are masochists who would object to that characterisation.

...or maybe not. I'm not sure how it works. Maybe some of them would like it?

And when Hannelore is involved the obsessed people just get creepier.

Are you a fan of irony?

Whether or not Jeph wants Marigold+Hannelore to go away, fact remains that Hanners kinda seems to like being around Marigold

Why is that anyway? Like someone said earlier, Marigold isn't really the poster child for personal hygiene and Hanners got first hand experience of that. She doesn't seem like the sort of person Hannelore would pick to hang around with.

Then again she did like her yaoi... I suppose Marigold has opened up a new world to Hannelore.

I may be being overly analytical here

There's no maybe about it.

Hanners and Marigold are not as interested in romantic affairs people are desperately trying to find where they fit.

Everyone seems to want all the characters nicely paired off.

I have a habit of thinking like this. ...can't think of an example... oh, at the end of Toradora! I said that I wanted

FakeEdit: Ok, apparently Iím not allowed to post spoilers (wut?) so Ö Iíll replace the names with "the two unattached characters" that should be unspecific enough not to spoil but make it obvious who Iím talking about if youíve seen the series.

Ok

I said that I wanted "the two unattached characters to get together because I "thought it would make everything neater" as opposed to having two lose ends flapping around.

It's actually pretty upsetting that some people may still decide to ship these two after this.

You must be pretty new to the internet if this can upset you.
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westrim

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #136 on: 16 Sep 2009, 11:24 »

.....Sorry Jeph, but you can't work your way out of this, any more than J.K. Rowling could with the Remus/Sirius/Severus idiocy. Just stop worrying about it, please. That goes for all of you.

Now, I'm not completely certain about this because I haven't seen where this was said, but I have a friend who has told me that J.K. Rowling has come out and explained the situation between Remus and Sirius (I'm not even touching the Severus bit of that, because, um, ew!) and... honestly, it makes more sense that a children's author already being criticized by the churches would have to leave the relationship between those two men as friendship - aside from some subtext that could help arguments. In fact, it also seems to me that several concepts of the books wouldn't have worked unless Remus and Sirius were indeed in a relationship; but that's all a different universe.

HOWEVER. Unlike with the multitudes of those who believe in Remus/Sirius, there was, I repeat, subtext that referred to the possibility. Whereas with Hannelore and Marigold, there is nothing.

They hang out. It's annoying - and seriously more than a little bit sad - that Hannelore can't have a single friend without people (both online observers and random canon MMORPG players) assuming there is OMFGGAYSECKS involved.

I was just noting that any two or all three of them together seems to be a popular choice for HP shippers, from what I've noticed from (very) far outside all that, but you had to go and say thing I had to refute. First, not a children's author, wherever the bookstores may put the books. Second, I doubt she gave a shit what the churches thought- she certainly didn't when she outed Dumbledore. Third, what subtext between Remus and Sirius? Remus got MARRIED for crying out loud, and Sirius was in prison forever. Every time we saw them they acted like old friends, regardless of the shippers turgid (wait, that's only a 3 dollar adjective) desires, Nothing. Was. There. And this was just an analogy for my main point anyway, which I'd prefer you had addressed instead.

So... as far as I know, that's all stuff you made up just now, rather than actual reasoning we've seen written down from the Marigold/Hanners people.
Just sayin'. Nice wall of text, though.

Do I really have to go through this again? Okay... imagine a universe where no one was putting Marigold/Hanners together but everything else on this forum that's been said had still been said, I'd still have the same feelings for the same reasons. Or, to almost verbatim state what I already said, it is not the fact that people put Marigold and Hanners together, it is the fact that both characters' sexualities were questioned (by people who were largely not shippers) to an extent that I've never seen before with any other characters. Like Jeph himself just said, there was no hint of a romance between the two. But this isn't so much because they don't like each other or because there's some sort of external obstacle preventing them from being together, it's the fact that they're both very definitively into guys. Now one might argue that the shippers are merely acknowledging but overlooking this fact for some wishful thinking, and they probably are, but to say the idea itself sprung out of nowhere, or to say that it was just too cute not to think of, is ignoring the fact that there were massive debates on Marigold's sexuality when her obsession with man-on-man should've settled it. And I seem to recall there were dozens of people who thought she was a lesbian without any genuine indication. So unless you're going to tell me that that manufactured ambiguity had nothing to do with the number of people who suddenly thought "Hey, I know, Marigold and Hanners!" you're not really making a point.

And just to clarify in case anyone else, shipper or not, feels the need to defend the shippers against me, don't bother because you're arguing against a point I didn't make. I do not, repeat do not, have a problem with the shippers, but rather in the formation of the idea before any actual shipping was suggested.

Actually part of their point was that you shouldn't have built a Great Wall o' Text the first time. And that your evidence is actually supposition until someone comes out and says "OMG, my latent homophobia is causing me to assume Marigold is a Lezzie!"

You see it a lot in other areas too. I know it used to be more of a regular thing for people to be called creepy for saying "[character] looks hot today!". Frankly it's the backlash against the supposedly creepy people that weirds me out.

I think that because Jeph seems to be uncomfortable with the idea of his characters being sexualized and possibly used as fantasy fodder the forum in general has developed the feeling that it's just not cool.

Truth. It disturbed me the first time when people got temp banned just for bringing this up and Jeph defended that mod, and it still disturbs me now. This whole shipping thing isn't my deal, but I do believe they should be free to speculate without getting banned and/or called perverts by people who will chortle over the latest antics of Pintsize. And when Jeph has an issue with it, the guy that made Tai the loose lesbian stereotype and 'constantly' has his characters discussing sexual matters, not to mention the on screen antics, well, it's just a little hypocritical to me for him to be annoyed when other people do what he himself is doing.


...Well. Sorry about creating my own wall of text, but I had responses I wanted to make. And I better stop now, even though more stuff has rolled in while I typed this. Life calls and all.
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2009, 11:28 by westrim »
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Random832

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #137 on: 16 Sep 2009, 11:39 »

I mean it was questioned excessively. A recent anonymous survey returned that 12.9% of women were bisexual (although strangely enough the question: "Are you bisexual?" returned far less), on top of the somewhat standard number of 10% homosexual. So there's a 22.9% chance of any woman with no established information about her sexuality liking girls (Marigold), and for one who has been established to like guys but not to not like girls, it's 12.9%. So, in either case, to assume they were probably straight isn't homophobia, it's statistics. The exact opposite of bias.

And acknowledging a 23%/13% chance as a possibility rather than automatically converting that number to 0% (which I am saying originates in homophobia) is "excessive"?

Quote
That's not evidence at all though.

I wasn't the one who said it "should've settled it", now, am i?

Anyway... on this:
Quote
What particular reason would one have for preferring man-on-man to other pairings other than sexual? I mean, anyone who's not themselves homophobic is of course capable of enjoying a well-written male-to-male romance, but enough to get a t-shirt just dedicated to it?

Well, maybe there are genre aspects (art style, story tropes, etc) apart from the whole "this contains sex" part. Just like how, you know, there can be fans of manga in particular, despite the fact that manga supposedly just means "a comic book / graphic novel that comes from Japan."
« Last Edit: 16 Sep 2009, 11:44 by Random832 »
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LeeC

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #138 on: 16 Sep 2009, 12:29 »

perhaps they can become wingwomen  :roll: ba dum dat (horrible rendition of drums)

I am going to horribly quote the bad movie "Taxi"
"Sexual tension?  I was in there with you and I didnt notice any sexual tension between you two.  That was more like normal everyday tension!"
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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #139 on: 16 Sep 2009, 12:41 »

Calm down everybody. No need to get annoying.

When I look at Marigold's face in the last two panels, I always have to think she's going to look for a boyfriend. Maybe on the internet, then a (more or less) blind date and BAM! Instant drama!
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danman

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #140 on: 16 Sep 2009, 13:25 »


And acknowledging a 23%/13% chance as a possibility rather than automatically converting that number to 0% (which I am saying originates in homophobia) is "excessive"?



Firstly , using this number is an gross overestimate a) incidence of homosexuality certainly does not exceed 5% (look at STATISTICS) secondly none of them can be homosexual since both enjoy looking at MEN!
It is interesting that you object to choosing the most probable possibility - at the chance being 1:19 at best and QC already having several such characters , finding another would be statistically anonymous (since the only common set of them is the place where they live, so the sample should contain a distribution similar to general populace (key word should NOT must which still makes such a guess legitimate))

And what does 'originate in homophobia' even  mean ...
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Kakareen

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #141 on: 16 Sep 2009, 13:35 »

Oh, you haven't 'pissed me off' IanClark. I don't really get pissed off. But I guess your big wall o' text did make me flinch.

I know that an actual relationship between Hannelore and Marigold is unrealistic. But I like to look at them that way. The one fandom I was involved in that had a prominent canon gay couple recently killed one part of that couple off, and I find myself slashing more voratiously then ever before in reaction. My slashing had chilled out a bit, because my fandom didn't need photoshop, and now I'm back to looking at a world of fiction where I either don't exist, only exist as a minor character you almost never see, or gets killed off.

Damn. I'm always surprised by how angry I am by that. Erm. Sorry. That also was not germane to the topic.

...

...

So...does anyone here think that Hannelore would write/read fanfiction? I'm not sure.

Gosh, Hannelore is adorable today! "Wow, twelve?" She looked so happy for Marigold! Poor thing. XD They make great friends, no doubt about that.
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weirdbeard

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #142 on: 16 Sep 2009, 13:47 »

I do not, repeat do not, have a problem with the shippers, but rather in the formation of the idea before any actual shipping was suggested.

Welcome to the internet, we're kinda pervy, have some.

In real life, hanners and marigold start hanging out, watching yaoi, people go 'aww, that's cute, the socially awkward but super nice and cool girls are befriending each other. right on.'

On the internet, hanners and marigold start hanging out, watching yaoi, and people go, 'aww, that's cute the socially awkward but super nice and cool girls are befriending each other.  They should totally hook up, because this is a fantasy world and it would be cuter if they were getting some and all the guys are either attached or chasing faye'

This was also my reaction to the pastry ballistics scene... 'hey, faye and angus are having a conflict/angst-free interaction... they should totally bone'  and i'm a total sven/faye fan.  And considering the basic 'Nerdery and Flirting' basis of the comic, i really fail to see these kinds of  'formations of ideas before the shipping' are inappropriate.
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Delirium

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #143 on: 16 Sep 2009, 14:35 »

Marigold's nose looks REALLY unappealing from the side.
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maddness

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #144 on: 16 Sep 2009, 14:38 »

I think Marigold's face is my favorite of all the QC characters partly because of her nose.
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MegaLexi

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #145 on: 16 Sep 2009, 15:00 »

suddenly remembered the man-bot Hannelore got from her dad. Dunno why, but I could see Marigold learning about it and wanting to..experiment. If nothing else, if it fails as a companion she can play WoW on it.

Oh lord. Winslow and Momo are known to talk, if I remember correctly. What if they end up trying to modify it to give Momo an un-chibi body?
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Binary

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #146 on: 16 Sep 2009, 15:34 »

yeesh, tell me about it. besides, don't you know the classic 90s movie formula?

nerdy girl - glasses = hot girl

... though i am still not POKING MYSELF IN THE EYE for fashion purposes, and i also really like  my glasses.

Hmm, it need not to be for fashion purposes...
Glasses do not function well in rain. It was pouring down on the day I was first fitted with contacts (bloody hell, that was 32 years ago!) and I can still remember how wonderful it was to be able to walk home from the opticians and see the world clearly instead of through a blur of droplets.

The poking yourself in the eye thing... not so bad. You don't jab them into place, you gently offer them up to the eyeball until the surface tension of the wetting fluid pulls the lens into place. It really is painless.

Also, sometimes nerdy girl + glasses = hot girl. Sue Perkins is hot.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38523000/jpg/_38523851_sue_perkins_300c4.jpg
http://www.chortle.co.uk/shows/edinburgh_fringe_2005/s/1645/sue_perkins:_spectacle_wearer_of_the_year_2006
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Gespenst

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #147 on: 16 Sep 2009, 16:04 »


Firstly, using this number is an gross overestimate a) incidence of homosexuality certainly does not exceed 5% (look at STATISTICS)

I'd be quite interested in seeing your statistics. As far as I know the only real statistics available are from the Kinsey reports. Which gave the number at around 10%. Now admittedly the reports are nearly 60 years out of date (although honestly I'd expect that to increase the numbers not decrease them), Dr. Kinsey's methodology was at times... questionable (to say the least) and we must always remember the three kinds of lies (lies, damn lies and statistics) but since they're all we've got to work with...

secondly none of them can be homosexual since both enjoy looking at MEN!

Because there are no bisexuals?

By the way: every single lesbian that I know likes to read yaoi. It's no indicator at all.

It is interesting that you object to choosing the most probable possibility - at the chance being 1:19 at best and QC already having several such characters , finding another would be statistically anonymous

It... what?

...Anomalous?

Just looking at the numbers might give you the impression that only x% of a group is y, but a random selection might chose every member of the group that is y. And there isn't going to be an even distribution in real life. What are the chances that a gay man would chose to live in ...say...Louisiana versus San Francisco? Not only that but ...well... "birds of a feather flock together" it makes sense for a number of reasons that gay people will have a higher number of gay friends (they aren't going to be homophonic at the very least). Almost all of my close friends are either gay or bisexual.

But no matter what you do and where you go some bugger is going to screw up your curve.  :-P

And what does 'originate in homophobia' even  mean ...

It means that it has it's roots in homophobia?

But what I think that poster meant to refer to was the idea that heterosexuality is 'the norm'. Therefore everyone is straight until proven otherwise. (And the threshold is usually staggeringly high, often just saying that you are isnít enough).

I think that's called heteronormativity or something.

But whether that is a homophobic stance I couldn't say.

...of course none of the things I've said mean that I think that either Hannelore and Marigold are gay or bisexual. They say they aren't so that's good enough for me.
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The Duke

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #148 on: 16 Sep 2009, 18:33 »

Jesus, did I miss the memo about the Longest Post Contest?  Wow. 
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Jeff7

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Re: WCT: September 14-18, 2009
« Reply #149 on: 16 Sep 2009, 19:41 »

In reality, Merigold would be the hottest chick a nerd could ever imagine.

And they're seriously girl-starved, too.
Hey! No we'....I....you......I'm going to shake my fist in your general direction, and possibly bite my thumb as well.
Darn kids....
 :-D


... though i am still not POKING MYSELF IN THE EYE for fashion purposes, and i also really like  my glasses.

I love my glasses too. Glasses are sexy.

And the poking yourself in the eye thing freaks me out too, but you get used to it.
My glasses have saved my eyes from pretty serious damage on several occasions. The most random one was standing by a street waiting to cross, and a stone smacked my glasses with quite a good bit of speed. I'd rather not think too much about what would have happened otherwise.
Other things glasses have saved me from:
- The corner of a table when I tripped slightly.
- My own damn clumsy, twitchy fingers.
- A screwdriver.
- Solder flux - incidentally, I also learned that eye protection is normally recommended when soldering.



Marigold's nose looks REALLY unappealing from the side.
I think Marigold's face is my favorite of all the QC characters partly because of her nose.
Aaaaaand, FIGHT!

I rather like it.


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