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[ChaoSera]

Explanation for the people outside Germany: Here you have two tries on a written exam.

Three over here.

Same here, with one additional try that follows some weird rules. I'm not sure what they are, I never had to use it so far. Might have to this semester, though. We'll see.

[Thrillho]

I like the sound of that.

[Method of Madness]

Your exam rules are confusing to me. Pretty much everyone who's posted on this page.

[cesium133]

Explanation for the people outside Germany: Here you have two tries on a written exam. Then you can try an oral re-exam, for which you can only get a D or fail. If you fail that as well, you need to hand in a formal application for another try. In it you need to explain why exactly you were unable to pass the exam. If this application is granted, then you'll have another try at one written and one oral exam. If it isn't granted, or you fail your second tries, you'll lose the right to take exams in this field of study (that includes majors which are very close to your original one) in whole Germany.

The rules for the qualifying exam for graduate study here are very similar. You have two tries on the exam. If you fail both, you can submit an application for an oral examination. There are 3 "grades" you can receive on the exam: Pass, Fail, or "Masters Pass", which means that you're considered to have failed in terms of being accepted to the Ph.D. program, but it's considered a pass for the Masters program. If you fail both tries and the oral examination (or if your application for the oral examination is rejected), then you're out of the graduate program.

[Masterpiece]

Explanation for the people outside Germany: Here you have two tries on a written exam. Then you can try an oral re-exam, for which you can only get a D or fail. If you fail that as well, you need to hand in a formal application for another try. In it you need to explain why exactly you were unable to pass the exam. If this application is granted, then you'll have another try at one written and one oral exam. If it isn't granted, or you fail your second tries, you'll lose the right to take exams in this field of study (that includes majors which are very close to your original one) in whole Germany.

I have to say though, this isn't the standard protocol at our university at all. We have a 'GOP' exam we need to pass in three semesters, if we don't, you lose the right to take exams in that field of study, in whole Germany.

Every other exam can be taken at will, in as many tries as you want, given you finish you finish the studies in the maximum study time (9 semesters).

[Method of Madness]

Wait, if you fail an exam, you can study for a week and take it again...no matter how many times? I mean, sure, it'll put you behind if it carries over to the next term, but...am I missing something?

[Masterpiece]

There are pre-determined exam days. There's no more than 2 exams per module per semester.

[Method of Madness]

Oh. Ok. What's a "module" again?

[Thrillho]

A class.

[jwhouk]

Is that as in "all the individual class sessions for one particular subject in a single given academic period" - what we call semesters here in the states - or something else?

[Loki]

As far as I understand, it's what jwhouk said. Except a module may consist not only of a lecture from your professor, but also e.g. discussion classes from TAs.

At my university and course of study, you'll, usually, per module per week, have two lectures from the prof, one discussion hour with the TAs and a discussion hour with some hired upper-semesters (don't know if there is an equivalent in other systems). Which means you have 6 hours of contact time with some kind of teacher and are expected to do a lot of homework and self-study.
There are usually four to five such modules you take per semester.

[Welu]

Hand in is today and I'm as prepared as I can be for it.

[Loki]

Yay!

[Welu]

Whoo! I ended up handing in everything before 1pm and one of the tutors wasn't even around, ARGH. So I have to do an interview as part of my work based placement and then other than receiving marks I am done with education forever! Unless I decide to go back in a few years if this whole media thing doesn't work out, whoops.

[bainidhe_dub]

Moderator Comment

This post and those that follow from it were moved from Happy Happy Joy Joy as they fit here better.

I can't decide if it's more cruel to shove all the end-of-year exams into one week, or to drag them out all summer.

[ankhtahr]

Let me rephrase it for you:

I can't decide if it's more cruel to shove all the exams into one week, or to drag them out all summer.

All our exams are end-of-the-year exams. They're in many cases the only thing deciding about our grade. One semester of work, preparing you for one exam, which decides everything.

But I came here to be happy about feeling acknowledged, so I'll remind myself of it now and go to sleep.

[bainidhe_dub]

Get some rest, I didn't mean to start yet another "differences in university education" conversation. I hope next year is a little less consuming for you.

[ankhtahr]

Nah, I didn't mean to say "stop this discussion, so I don't have to think about it", but just wanted to remind myself of the good things. I tend to forget such things so easily.

[Thrillho]

All our exams are end-of-the-year exams. They're in many cases the only thing deciding about our grade. One semester of work, preparing you for one exam, which decides everything.

I take a dim view of exams as it is, but this is an absolutely fucking moronic system.

[bainidhe_dub]

I have to agree. You are killing yourself doing problem sets every week, that you are marked down for if you don't do, but if you do them they don't actually contribute towards passing the class? I hope I have misunderstood something here.

[Pilchard123]

All our exams are end-of-the-year exams. They're in many cases the only thing deciding about our grade. One semester of work, preparing you for one exam, which decides everything.

I take a dim view of exams as it is, but this is an absolutely fucking moronic system.

You know how A-levels are going/have gone back to this?

[ankhtahr]

You are killing yourself doing problem sets every week, that you are marked down for if you don't do, but if you do them they don't actually contribute towards passing the class? I hope I have misunderstood something here.

For some "modules" (details about those recently in the University thread) at our university you need two things to pass. One exam, and a certificate which will only be given, when you have over 50% of the possible points in the weekly or biweekly exercise sheets. You don't get a grade for that. You either pass, or fail. So as long as you either don't have this certificate, or have failed or not tried the exam, this class doesn't count as being passed.

This only counts for some exams though. There are also multiple exams with the more typical way of having voluntary exercise sheets, which are being graded so you know how good you are, but don't have any influence on the final grade of the module, as that consists only of the exam grade.

There are also some modules, where you can get extra points if you are performing well enough in the exercise sheets. So if you have over 60% of the points, then you'll get three bonus points for the exam, if you have over 50% you'll get two, and if you're over 40% you'll get one additional point. These three points are often worth about 0.3 Grades. So if you've written a 2.3 (We have 1.0 to 4.0 instead of A to D), you'd receive a 2.0 if you performed well enough to earn your bonus points.

Now one of the problems I have, is that I've failed the certificate for programming last semester. That means, that I'll have to pass it this semester, as programming is one of the three modules I need to have tried until the end of the second, and passed until the end of the third semester. And as the programming exam has the certificate as prerequisite, I wasn't allowed to try the exam. So, if I fail the certificate, because I am not good enough in the exercise sheets, I'll be thrown out of university, because I was unable to try the exam until the end of the second semester.

Passing programming shouldn't be a problem though. It's easy, and I just failed, because I didn't allocate it enough time last semester. But as you're required to do something called "Practice in software development"/"Praxis der Softwareentwicklung" during your bachelor's, and having passed the Software engineering class is a prerequisite for that, I'll need to pass the certificate for that as well, as you can only earn that certificate in the summer semesters. So if I fail the exercise certificate in Software engineering, my PSE will be delayed by a year, which would delay my whole studies by a year. If I pass the certificate, but fail the exam however, I'm allowed to retake the exam next semester, and my PSE will only be delayed by half a year.

Yeah. It's a fucking great system we have here.

[Papersatan]

I recently decided I want a Phd.  It's always been a maybe thing, but I always told myself I didn't really want one because it would take too long, be too tiring, because I wouldn't do well at it and because while I worked on it, my previous student debt, of which I have quite a bit, will accrue interest. 

This isn't just an "I don't want to get a real job" thing, though I have been in school for 25 years, it's also that I have things I want to study which I haven't had the chance, and ways in which I think I can make a meaningful contribution to my field. Over the past year several different people whom I respect have suggested that I could go for a Phd, and I always brushed it off.  I have terrible impostor syndrome, though it has improved a lot this year with some conscious effort, and, on paper I am not a great student.  A good one for sure, but I don't excell: I have had a 3.48 GPA for all my degrees, including my masters which is very good, but not amazing.  While in grad school, I have not published, or presented at conferences, I didn't lead a student organization or organize any events; I did nothing extra to show I was a worthy scholar.  Some of this is because I was dealing with things in the rest of my life that others were not (funding issues, my father being in a coma for a semester, Stephen's mental health) but I think a lot of it is because I am not a good student.  School work take a lot of mental energy for me because of lot of the skills that it is assumed students have are things I struggle with because of the way my brain works, though I think I have finally developed some good coping skills to manage that.

Either way, I think I want to apply for a Phd at least, so I have decided I need to do some meaningful research on my own to show that I am capable, both to myself and to admission committees.  This is slightly hindered because I have lost my university credentials, so I need my friends to check out books for me, but several of them are willing to do so. 

This ended up sort of blog thready, but I felt it was solidly school related so here it is.

[Method of Madness]

In what subject? Also, good luck

[Papersatan]

Thanks, I'm not sure which subject actually, because what I want to study sits at an intersection of a few disciplines.

I haven't really developed a research question yet, but I want to study information architecture and the creation of meaning in places made of information.  In particular: how IA structures uphold or challenge systems of social power, and what ethical choices designers have and how we read the arguments of these structures and how the arguments change user behavior (not just within the site, but in their wider lives). 

The programs I have been looking at are in Rhetoric, Design, and Human Computer Interaction.  I think where I apply will come down to the research interests of the faculty within a particular department.

[Thrillho]

In joyous news - this has been the best couple of days of my whole life.

All our exams are end-of-the-year exams. They're in many cases the only thing deciding about our grade. One semester of work, preparing you for one exam, which decides everything.

I take a dim view of exams as it is, but this is an absolutely fucking moronic system.

You know how A-levels are going/have gone back to this?

I didn't. The place I work is stopping our A-level programme after next year. I'm guessing this is the work of Michael 'doesn't remember what degree he did, doesn't know how averages work, dumber than a tin bucket' Gove.

[Masterpiece]

Hey Ankh, your university is seriously more strict than ours. NONE of the courses I've taken so far that had an exam had mandatory exercises. It's either one or the other - never both at the same time.

[ankhtahr]

Hey Ankh, your university is seriously more strict than ours. NONE of the courses I've taken so far that had an exam had mandatory exercises. It's either one or the other - never both at the same time.

huh. That kinda makes me jealous.

(click to show/hide)

Modul: Grundbegriffe der Informatik [IN1INGI]
Erfolgskontrolle
Für den erfolgreichen Abschluss dieses Moduls ist das Bestehen eines Übungsscheins (Erfolgskontrolle anderer Art nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 SPO) sowie das Bestehen der Klausur (schriftliche Prüfung nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 SPO) erforderlich. Der Umfang der Klausur beträgt zwei Stunden. Die Modulnote ist die Note der Klausur. Achtung: Dieses Modul ist Bestandteil der Orientierungsprüfung gemäß §8 Abs. 1 SPO. Die Prüfung ist bis zum Ende des 2.Fachsemesters anzutreten und bis zum Ende des 3. Fachsemesters zu bestehen.

Modul: Programmieren [IN1INPROG]
Erfolgskontrolle 
Zum erfolgreichen Bestehen der Lehrveranstaltung sind zwei Erfolgskontrollen zu erbringen.

• Bestehen eines unbenoteten Übungsscheins (nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 SPO). Der Übungsschein ist zwingende Voraussetzung für die Teilnahme an der zweiten Erfolgskontrolle.
• Diese zweite Kontrolle besteht im Bestehen zweier Abschlussaufgaben (nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 SPO), die zeitlich getrennt abgegeben werden. Sollte diese Erfolgskontrolle nicht bestanden sein, kann sie, d.h. erneute Abgabe beider Abschlussaufgaben, einmal wiederholt werden.

Die Gesamtnote setzt sich aus den Noten der zwei Abschlussaufgaben zusammen. Achtung: Dieses Modul ist Bestandteil der Orientierungsprüfung gemäß §8 Abs. 1 SPO. Die Prüfung ist bis zum Ende des 2. Fachsemesters anzutreten und bis zum Ende des 3. Fachsemesters zu bestehen.

Modul: Höhere Mathematik [IN1MATHHM]
Erfolgskontrolle
Die Erfolgskontrolle erfolgt in Form einer schriftlichen Gesamtprüfung im Umfang von 240 Minuten nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 SPO und einer Erfolgskontrolle anderer Art nach §4 Abs. 2 Nr.3 SPO (mindestens ein Übungsschein aus den Lehrveranstaltungen Höhere Mathematik I [1330] oder Höhere Mathematik II [1868]). Die Modulnote ist die Note der schriftlichen Prüfung.
Achtung: Diese Prüfung oder die Prüfung zum Modul Lineare Algebra [IN1MATHLA] oder zum Modul Analysis [IN1MATHANA] oder zum Modul Lineare Algebra und Analytische Geometrie [IN1MATHLAAG] ist bis zum Ende des 2. Fachsemesters anzutreten und bis zum Ende des 3. Fachsemesters zu bestehen, da sie Bestandteil der Orientierungsprüfung nach §8 Abs. 1 SPO ist.

etc.

But yeah, this university seems to have a napoleonic complex anyway. Everybody is so convinced that it's the best, and that they are the best.
Edit: I'm wondering, would the mods think it's a good idea to move the university related posts to the University thread? I feel bad for going so off topic here.

Moderator Comment

Done (as you can tell!)

[Blue Kitty]

Well I'm looking at some courses to take and there's a local college that has a bachelors degree in Forensic Science, cept it's a real college with real college tuition. On the other hand there's a degree at the school I'm at now that I find interesting, but it's only an associates degree.

[bainidhe_dub]

Thanks for moving that over, Paul!

[Metope]

I have one day left of 19 years of continuous education! It might be my last day ever, it definitely is the last day for a long, long time. This is my working space for the time being, at least I'm going out in style:

[Barmymoo]

Wooooooo those paintings are particularly gorgeous I love the one in the middle especially, the colours are beautiful.

[Metope]

Yay thanks! I'll post more pictures when the exhibition opens in three weeks, I don't want to give it all away yet.

[94ssd]

In sexual assault news, Student sues Duke after being expelled for sexual assault - The Chronicle

and The Onion hits the nail on the head.

[Thrillho]

Goddamn, Onion. I was so used to you being toothless lately.

[94ssd]

I am making the extremely wise decision to wake up at 7 AM tomorrow in order to watch a building implode. Specifically an old dorm on campus. The university has even set up an official viewing spot on the top level of the library parking deck. 

[Barmymoo]

I'm a little nervous in case my exam grade somehow changes (I got 42%, right on the threshold for passing - 3% lower and I'd have failed) but assuming that doesn't happen, I have passed the year! I got my last essay grade back - 65%, which is pretty good. I'm hoping to improve my grades in general next year now that I have a desk and a dedicated study space (plus next year's grades count towards my degree classification so the stakes are higher), but I'm ok with this year.

[Mlle Germain]

Congratulations to everyone who has finished exams already! That will mostly be UK people (maybe US, too?), I guess. To the German university students: Go, go, go, you'll get there, too! (I was at German university until last August, so for me it was normal to have exams at the end of July, too.)

I hopefully did my last written exam ever today! So I should have my master's degree soon which I find very exciting! (The actual graduation is only in July, but I get the results in two weeks.) So then I can finally be a PhD student and do some proper research from next year onwards.

[Barmymoo]

Graduation there is fun, you get to stop traffic and tourists almost explode with excitement. I'll be taking my masters in two years (my honourary, "you didn't do anything except survive for another three years" masters) assuming it doesn't clash with my midwifery graduation, which is obviously more important since I'll have actually earned that one...

[Mlle Germain]

I am quite excited!
In Germany, one doesn't formally graduate (at least not uniformly organised by the entire university). When I got my Bachelor's, I just went to an office to collect the certificate a few days after my last exam - still an awesome feeling, mind you; especially after the viva for my thesis, which was the last thing I had to do, when my supervisor and the other examiner gave me the mark and shook my hand and stuff.
But I guess it will be nice to have a formal celebration once.
If everything goes well, my 90-year-old granddad who hasn't left Germany in a long time will get to attend, and I am so much looking forward to showing him the city and the colleges and I hope he'll be proud when I get my degree! (Umm, I hope the result will be something to be proud of; my exams didn't all go as well as I planned...)

[Masterpiece]

We have formal ceremonies.

[Mlle Germain]

I know that some subjects at some universities have festivities, but it's not a central big thing like in lots of other countries where you dress up in a gown and funny hat and stuff. And lots of people I know also didn't have any ceremony, like me.

Edit: I'm also not criticising that there is no such thing at many universities; I personally rather like the matter of fact way it's handled and wouldn't really find a huge fancy ceremony fitting with how I view German universities, but it will be a nice cultural experience to have a fancy ceremony for once and I'm really looking forward to it!

[Barmymoo]

Also you get to swoop around in a cape. I still have my gown and sometimes I put it on and pretend I'm Batwoman.

[Redball]

That would be a sight. Would it be a sound too? Do you make swooping Batwoman noises?

[Barmymoo]

Sometimes. Except that I don't know what sound Batwoman makes. Sometimes I also put my laundry basket on my head so that I can be a laundry turtle.

[Method of Madness]

in case my exam grade somehow changes

This is a thing that happens?

[Loki]

I know that some subjects at some universities have festivities, but it's not a central big thing like in lots of other countries where you dress up in a gown and funny hat and stuff. And lots of people I know also didn't have any ceremony, like me.

Edit: I'm also not criticising that there is no such thing at many universities; I personally rather like the matter of fact way it's handled and wouldn't really find a huge fancy ceremony fitting with how I view German universities, but it will be a nice cultural experience to have a fancy ceremony for once and I'm really looking forward to it!

A certain large university in the West of Germany introduces it this year.
What I have heard of the preparations sounds like a big "we want to be all US-fancy and expensive"-tryhard-farce. (This is not a statement against US ceremonies - merely against the way a certain university is trying to mimick it.)

[Mlle Germain]

Yeah, that's what I meant. It fits where it has a tradition (even if e.g. in the US that is shorter than the something like 600 years where I'll be doing it; it's still a tradition), but for how I perceive public state universities in Germany, it just doesn't really fit to do it that way... I don't know; German universities are (practically fully) state-funded, democratic institutions of research and education that got rid of all gowns/ other academic symbols and decadence a while ago for good reason (at least that's how they like to be viewed and view themselves).
Now, if the students were the ones organising it because a majority expressed a desire for such a ceremony and it was funded by the student body, then that would be different and I would say then it's a good thing.

[Barmymoo]

Yes; we hadn't been officially informed that our grades were released, I just saw it while looking up a different grade. The examiners give you a grade but the external moderators audit the marking and occasionally disagree with the mark the examiners have given, so it gets altered. I was paranoid because it's so close to the pass threshold that I didn't want to bank on it being that grade and then have the disappointment of having failed. But I think it's now official

[Method of Madness]

You have external moderators for your exams? Interesting.