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[Johnny C]

I mean Flying Lotus dude, fuckin' really?

[KvP]

There are much better wonky producers out there. Daedelus is from the same scene and he's much better. FaltyDL's on the East Coast and his album is one of the best of the year. When Brackles drops a full-length it's going to be tremendous. Ninja Tune is the gold standard for instrumental hip-hop as far as I'm concerned.

Flying Lotus' stuff is pretty good for Adult Swim ads, not so much for actual listening.

And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.

[Johnny C]

And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.

It's not everywhere and it's barely even on the charts anymore. The last decade has been full of synths and aping (the bad) or expanding (the good) Timbaland (the middle) - ever since Stankonia dropped, the game has been about future music, dude. What sounds like "off-brand G-funk" in 2009? What even sounded like it in 2005? Snoop Dogg doesn't even do G-funk anymore.

Like I don't mean to be standoffish but you're doing nothing but contradict yourself and since this should realistically be full of people talking about how Cassie synths are basically aural Snuggies it's kinda grating against me. Haven't we had enough threads about anticon. wannabes already?

[KvP]

And anybody who doesn't think that off-brand G-funk of the last 10 years isn't weak shit needs to get their ears checked. It's everywhere, and it blows.

It's not everywhere and it's barely even on the charts anymore. The last decade has been full of synths and aping (the bad) or expanding (the good) Timbaland (the middle) - ever since Stankonia dropped, the game has been about future music, dude. What sounds like "off-brand G-funk" in 2009? What even sounded like it in 2005? Snoop Dogg doesn't even do G-funk anymore.

G-funk is still around, it's just on shit records. The point was that if Dam Funk's "modern funk" (which is heavily indebted to the 80's in the same way G-Funk was) blows up, we'll hear stuff that's very similar coming out of trendy rap records, and that I'm not looking forward to that sound getting overplayed again.

Like I don't mean to be standoffish

Sure you do.

but you're doing nothing but contradict yourself

How? I don't like Stones Throw and I don't like slick modern R&B, because as a general rule I don't find them interesting enough to listen to.

and since this should realistically be full of people talking about how Cassie synths are basically aural Snuggies

I don't need you to tell me what I like about music, or how I like it. If you want another thread made where people who aren't you / kieffer / sam can talk about what you want to talk about, that can be arranged. I'm not talking about J-5 here. I'm talking about an aspect of rap that's not MCing, and what I like about it.

Haven't we had enough threads about anticon. wannabes already?

I really don't appreciate having some bullshit race card pulled on me. I don't even really like Anticon. They're in the same league as Stones Throw for me. And Doseone is a douchebag.

[a pack of wolves]

This post guys. Wiley just got signed to Island, I give it a month. I've been listening to Terror Danjah's instrumentals for a little while, it's good. That Tempa T video is awesome.

Did he? Makes sense, Rolex was massive and deservedly so, it's a pure dancefloor filler. I rather hope things aren't fucked between him and the BBK camp, Skepta came off best with his diss but when they team up it's just downright amazing.

I have to admit to kind of sleeping on Terror Danjah. I fully loved Cock Back obviously, and Give It To 'Em with Mz Bratt from The Warrior Dubs was banging too. I liked his flow on Quincy on Trimbal's superb Soulfood mixtape as well, but apart from that I've let him slip by. I should get on that.

Talking of Trim and Wiley, Taliban you shitters.

[Ballard]

Man, as hard as I try, I just don't understand southern rap.

wow what a shock

I bet he's neither southern nor rap.

What the fuck are you guys talking about?

I don't mean I can't understand what they're saying. I mean, it is going completely over my head what people find sonically interesting about the music in question. It seems played and nauseatingly repetitive and I'm genuinely surprised to see people glorifying it who generally have great taste while simultaneously dissing really quality socially conscious hip hop.

It seems like such bland MTV garbage that it is beyond my comprehension. Correct me if I'm wrong? With examples?

[Avec]

Right here man, with lyrics.

[Avec]

Also

[JD]

And then check out that reviewer's twitter: "Just had the new Gucci Mane cd dumped on my desk. Still better than loading bags of concrete into a pickup truck for greasy contractors."

I agree with this. Concrete is heavy and I am weak.

[Ballard]

Am I missing the irony in this thread?

Is this guy the Complete of rap artists?

[beat mouse]

I don't understand how you're expecting anyone to justify the appeal of pop music to someone who has no interest in it. If social importance and lyrical content are what makes or breaks music for you, that rules out a vast chunk of music, and it's a little absurd for you to think there's some in depth explanation for why some of us like music about selling crack and using the proceeds to buy solid gold swiss watches.

[David_Dovey]

Honestly I think most people's critical apparatus goes out the window when it comes to Music That Is From The Streets

[BrittanyMarie]

plus it is generally excellent party music and driving music when you're driving for long straight stretches and you want to holler along to keep you awake

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Three Six Mafia is as far south as I can handle going and even that just barely

[KvP]

plus it is generally excellent partystrip club music and driving music when you're driving for long straight stretches and you want to holler along to keep you awake

FYP! Actually a lot of southern rap seems tailor-made for strip clubs. Moreso back in crunk day, but still.

Also the more I listen to hip-hop/rap the more I come to mistrust this apparent divide between the two of them, as if they were entirely different animals. Fuck you, I can listen to Raekwon and Masta Ace in the same sitting. And I don't think that Brother Ali needs any kind of weak shit apologies because he doesn't rap about crime or his bank account. There's a certain deficiency to the idea that the only really compelling thing an MC can present is braggadocio.

[pilsner]

So how do we feel about Subtle?  I like them, and most of Anticon in general, but then my taste in hip hop fits in this thread about as well as R. Kelly at an adoption center.

[KvP]

I sort of kind of appreciate their attempts to infuse their hip hop with the avant garde, but when I saw them live they were just terrible. Doseone has a massive chip on his shoulder. 13 & God is pretty great though, eagerly awaiting their follow-up.

Anticon in general, eh. I'm not particularly enamoured of Sage Francis or Aesop Rock or the like (though I am fond of Buck 65's alt-country influenced records, and he's on Sage's vanity label at the moment) Their better producers, particularly Alias, seem to have a deep infatuation with Boards of Canada, but try as they might they never get nearly as good as their influences. I was a big fan of WHY? 'round Alopecia day but they too were awful live, and I went through the dissolution of a relationship while I was really into that album and thus it became impossible to enjoy later on. Haven't heard Eskimo Snow. I'm not sure if I'd call them hip hop though - I'd imagine they themselves would deny the label. They have pretensions "beyond" hip hop.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Yeah, Anitcon has alot of shit, but there are some gems as well.

Subtle isn't bad but I've never really gotten into it. Aesop Rock is personal favorite of mine, I love almost everything he's done. Sage Francis has a song or two I like, but I kind of hate him. The rest...meh I dunno.


my favorite Aesop track of all time

edit: oh man, I just watched that video, I'd never seen it before, and it's absurd. also, it's edited which is fucking lame.

[pilsner]

The explanation said it was a university project.  The song is still sick though.

[E. Spaceman]

Johnny C what are you doing, I understand and agree with some of your arguments but you phrase them in a way that makes you sound like a hip hop version of that one Kid A review.

[Johnny C]

I just want a Top 40 Enclave on this board so badly and this thread was so close

[BrittanyMarie]

Top 40 in general? Cuz uh, I really fucking like Transform Ya by Chris Brown. Oh man, and when Weezy says "betta tell your man he better get his Voltron up" I'm just all YEAH

[Johnny C]

Top 40 in general? Cuz uh, I really fucking like Transform Ya by Chris Brown. Oh man, and when Weezy says "betta tell your man he better get his Voltron up" I'm just all YEAH

these both fit the criteria of this thread

[BrittanyMarie]

I'm still learning. I was one of those people that liked rap only from Minneapolis but luckily I have the biggest rap fan as my bff. It led to my favorite drunk facebooking of all time, which was me texting in "WU TANG CLAN AIN'T NOTHIN TA FUCK WIT" like five times then "I have the hiccups" then "STILL NOT FUCKIN WIT WU TANG CLAN"

[beat mouse]

I am extremely guilty of facebook statuses related to not fucking with wu tang clan. I'm stuck with this thread, in that I love rap music and don't often get to talk about it, due to (as seen several times here) developing an eye-twitch with the "its not rap its hiphop" thing, or just not knowing enough intelligent people who also enjoy it.

And I have to reiterate, everyone, regardless of which side of the tracks you fall on, be it "suss the new jeezy disc bro" or "i like anticon and only anticon," everyone needs to give the new RZA "Digi Snacks" because it is awesome and falls into experimental or non-top 40, as well as being gangst to the end because nobody fucks with the clan.

[Johnny C]

It can't be worse than Ghostdini, plus it's Bobby Digital - come to think of it, how have I not checked it out already?

[beat mouse]

Ghost's solo career has been on a steady decline for a while, imo. My biggest problem is that his lyrics have gravitated so far into being strictly about pussy that it's not even that interesting to crack into these days. I still throw on Ironman once in a while but after Fishscale I think he kinda lost something. Cuban Linx 2 and Blackout 2 are totally solid by way of new clan cds, though.

[Professor Snuggles]

Fuck I can't stop listening to this Jason Derulo track. It popped up on Gossip Girl, but mostly the point is that it's just really really good.

Code: [Select]

http://www.mediafire.com/?jounkgztzom
Socially conscious whitey hip hop isn't bad at all! Some is really good, but for the most part, it gets repetitive, it gets boring, it's about feelings and girls which is just not right for rap music, and it's rappe by atmosphere, and god I hate atmosphere. If you guys need "underground" shit, you should scope MURS, who is really really good. I like MURS for president a lot. Johnny I'm witcha on the top 40 tip, real talk.

[Ballard]

Wu-Tang the spring before last was really disappointing. I saw them at The Fillmore at Irving Plaza, and they were four hours late to come on stage, though you could totally see them behind the curtain smoking up and not giving a shit about the audience. They would do fragments of songs, then get bored or disappointed in the audience's mild reaction and stop and move on to something else. Most of them missed half their lines.

[a pack of wolves]

GZA was really good at ATP a couple of years back when he was doing Liquid Swords in its entirety. But then again I jizz all over Liquid Swords so maybe that's effecting my judgement, and it meant he had to avoid the medley thing. And ODB, he did Nigga Please at the end.

[a pack of wolves]

Ah, he was pretty tight at ATP. That would fuck it right up, you'd know exactly what should be coming and then... nothing.

[pilsner]

Apparently going to the last Liquid Swords tour was like going to NASCAR for the crashes.  I had tickets and just couldn't work up the courage to go.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

yeah a big problem of mine with rap concerts is that a lot of the time it turns into a medley

yes, this.

sometimes it works amazingly but most of the time i'd rather just hear the songs. Or some freestyling or something, since you know...I already have the fuckin cd.

[Johnny C]

Live rap is usually bad, but there have been situations in which I've really enjoyed it:

• Del
• local Def-3 who nowadays usually just fronts Oye!, a Chilean band that plays Chilean party jams that he just raps over
• Buck 65 w/ Cadence Weapon, notable because Skratch Bastid was backing Buck and that dude KILLS IT, also Cadence Weapon behaved more like Henry Rollins or Pink Eyes or something, just running around screaming and jumping into the crowd and generally freaking out
• Snoop Dogg w/ Ice Cube (Snoop's performance got a little weird around his 10-minute Pac tribute though)
• Kanye West/Lupe Fiasco (Rihanna and N.E.R.D. were on this bill too but don't really apply to the discussion)

[Johnny C]

That being said, I've seen some embarrassingly bad attempts at Live Rapping.

[KharBevNor]

I just want a Top 40 Enclave on this board so badly and this thread was so close

Why don't you just go to like.

Anywhere else in the world or internet where people listen to mainstream music.

Like a bar or club or something.

Just a suggestion!

[BrittanyMarie]

I enjoyed Snoop live when I saw him in Chicago but I'd also had several too many beers. So many I went swimming in Lake Michigan. Apparently it's really cold, but I didn't care. Some dude on this very forum was making fun of me like I had shit for music taste for liking it. We had all of Doomtree come once, and that was pretty awesome--especially POS obviously

[the_pied_piper]

I have to say that I am not all that enamored with The Dream's album although Walking On The Moon is a pretty good track, I just find it quite boring and samey.

However, I have been enjoying this track lately.

[Johnny C]

Anywhere else in the world or internet where people listen to mainstream music.

Like a bar or club or something.

Just a suggestion!

Cause there are people on here that I'd like to have this conversation with, people reading this forum who may be interested in it, and besides that there's an entirely different level and method of discourse between the people here than there is at a bar or a club re: Top 40.

[Cernunnos]

There is an entirely different level of discourse here precisely because top 40 music is not generally the target of discussion here. The lion's share of that kind of music is made with an entirely different level of criticism and a different set of criteria for its success in mind. To discuss it as we would discuss, say, Steve Reich, or Jets to Brazil or Fugazi or Godspeed you! Black Emperor would make absolutely no sense. Besides, I personally, and I bet a lot of others here, are here because a few years back I got sick of top 40. I had nowhere else to go but the Internet. Why would I, or anyone else in my position, want to start talking about it now? It hasn't gotten any better, and there's not half enough hipster irony in the whole western world to hide it.

[KharBevNor]

Cause there are people on here that I'd like to have this conversation with, people reading this forum who may be interested in it, and besides that there's an entirely different level and method of discourse between the people here than there is at a bar or a club re: Top 40.

Look Johnny, just because you're scared of real life black people.

[KharBevNor]

Yeah woo Lady GaGa!


Explain. Maybe in a seperate thread.

[a pack of wolves]

There is an entirely different level of discourse here precisely because top 40 music is not generally the target of discussion here. The lion's share of that kind of music is made with an entirely different level of criticism and a different set of criteria for its success in mind. To discuss it as we would discuss, say, Steve Reich, or Jets to Brazil or Fugazi or Godspeed you! Black Emperor would make absolutely no sense. Besides, I personally, and I bet a lot of others here, are here because a few years back I got sick of top 40. I had nowhere else to go but the Internet. Why would I, or anyone else in my position, want to start talking about it now? It hasn't gotten any better, and there's not half enough hipster irony in the whole western world to hide it.

This is just completely false. For a start, I've seen people talk about plenty of top 40 music on here and nobody bats an eyelid, and let's be honest here it's because it's top 40 guitar bands which are for some reason more acceptable. And why can't I talk about R. Kelly or Dizzee Rascal in a similar way to how someone would talk about Jets To Brazil? Is it because they've got far more diverse bodies of work than Jets To Brazil? Or due to the fact that they've had a much bigger impact on contemporary music perhaps? Please, explain why they're somehow lesser than the things you like just because more people listen to their music.

Besides, wouldn't you agree that there are some pretty good reasons to talk about culture that's immensely widespread and popular? There might be different reasons behind its creation but that doesn't mean nothing interesting or enjoyable is going on in the music.

Mind you, someone complaining about people talking about things other than top 40 hip-hop and r&b when they could just make a thread for that is a bit silly.

[pilsner]

For shits sake just start a top 40 thread, we've had them before, it's not a big deal.

[KharBevNor]

Please, explain why they're somehow lesser than the things you like just because more people listen to their music.

Come on. He never said the things he liked were better, he said they were different. I can quite easily accept that the criticism of Top 40 music has got to be different to the criticism of indie music just based on the different criteria for judging value that are involved.

Besides, wouldn't you agree that there are some pretty good reasons to talk about culture that's immensely widespread and popular?

AIDS is pretty widespread too dude.

LOL

[Johnny C]

Come on. He never said the things he liked were better, he said they were different. I can quite easily accept that the criticism of Top 40 music has got to be different to the criticism of indie music just based on the different criteria for judging value that are involved.

Yeah but the idea that you can't talk about them the same way as [band x] is kinda nebulous at best and backhandedly insulting at worst.

Mind you, someone complaining about people talking about things other than top 40 hip-hop and r&b when they could just make a thread for that is a bit silly.

Well except that's what the thread was about at the kickoff, it was about this:



as opposed to the Rhymesayers stuff that we wind up encountering in every attempt to talk about hip-hop on this forum.

[KharBevNor]

I wasn't saying you can't. I'm just saying that if you try and talk about Top 40 music without bringing in metrics like, well, popularity, you won't really be covering it properly, and that these metrics aren't important for real good other sorts of music.

[Johnny C]

Actually there are plenty of intrinsic qualities to the music that you can talk about!

[Professor Snuggles]

For example, how sick this HEALTH remix of OJ is. The beat works way better with his highpitched mediocre rapping than one would expect. Sometimes I think OJ is actually better than Gucci.

That said, I feel like most of these tracks aren't going to be that good, or as good as the originals, at least.

Johnny, I feel like the point here is that people would rather criticize other's taste that they disagree with and assume that since it has characteristics that they dislike on principle (autotune, simple lyrics, etc) it is completely devoid of merit.

Speaking of autotune, I am kind of really intrigued by the fact that Kells is autotuning himself on some tracks. I figured that was just a thing to do if you can't sing that well, so the fact that he, with his amazing voice, is using it makes it seem more like an instrument, which is really cool, I think.

[BrittanyMarie]

I've noticed that on quite a few tracks; I mentioned Transform Ya before and Chris Brown uses it in there too, I'd assume to sound like a robot.