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Author Topic: Where to start?  (Read 69944 times)

E. Spaceman

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #100 on: 25 Jan 2010, 22:09 »

The best James Brown starter is the movie Rocky IV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY
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De_El

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #101 on: 03 Feb 2010, 18:38 »

So I've recently discovered the divine shriekings of Diamanda Galas, and I'd like to try to get into her, but well, the title of this thread. Anybody know enough to help?

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #102 on: 14 Feb 2010, 14:59 »

Guys, where to start with Kraftwerk?
Or Depeche Mode.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #103 on: 14 Feb 2010, 15:03 »

Computer World or Man Machine, probably
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #104 on: 14 Feb 2010, 16:43 »

Autobahn
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #105 on: 14 Feb 2010, 18:29 »

Computer World or Man Machine, definitely
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #106 on: 14 Feb 2010, 18:30 »

I mean Autobahn is fine but Computer Love/Pocket Calculator (from Computer World) and Robots/Neon Lights (from Man Machine) are pretty much the only songs by Kraftwerk I ever listen to anymore.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #107 on: 14 Feb 2010, 18:59 »

Well, I suggested Autobahn because it was an earlier fantastic record but you don't listen to TEE?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #108 on: 14 Feb 2010, 19:01 »

Not anymore really
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #109 on: 14 Feb 2010, 19:49 »

I still listen to autobahn, but the one I mentioned are a bit more bitesized.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #110 on: 15 Feb 2010, 04:33 »

Inspired by Our Band Could Be Your Life:

Black Flag?
Fugazi?
Butthole Surfers?
Mudhoney?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #111 on: 15 Feb 2010, 04:42 »

With Black Flag I would suggest you start with Damaged. A lot of people would argue that the pre-Rollins stuff is actually better and they may in fact be right, but nevertheless most of the music they made was with Hank Rollins singing so it's pretty imperative that you work out if you dig him. Also it is probably the apex of the "hardcore" stuff they did. After that the sludge/Sabbath influence started to creep in.

I'd argue that with Fugazi it is probably a good idea to go through their discography chronologically, because the band progressed in a very linear fashion from the start of their tenure to the end.
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a pack of wolves

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #112 on: 15 Feb 2010, 06:15 »

Go chronologically with Mudhoney as well, get Superfuzz Bigmuff Plus Early Singles. It's got Touch Me I'm Sick and their cover of Hate The Police by The Dicks on it.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #113 on: 15 Feb 2010, 09:53 »

Inspired by Our Band Could Be Your Life:

Black Flag?
Fugazi?
Butthole Surfers?
Mudhoney?

Fugazi are really the odd band out here, the rest had an overwhelming majority of meh.

Black Flag - First Four Years and then Everything Went Black if you dig the first one. Don't bother with anything after that, try the other bands on SST instead.
Fugazi - You absolutely have to hear these in order because each record is different from the last. 13 Songs is a combination of both the first EPs.
BH Surfers - Their self-titled debut EP is actually their best release. The three records immediately after are pretty good but don't go any further.
Mudhoney - Just get the compilation March To Fuzz. They never actually made a great record, sadly. There's a few really nice songs here and there though.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #114 on: 15 Feb 2010, 10:28 »

Butthole Surfers?
Mudhoney?

i actually like every Butthole Surfers album, for vastly different reasons.  their "sellout" album Electriclarryland is actually quite good.  their early stuff is very difficult listening, so listen to Locust Abortion Technician and, if it's too weird for you, try Independent Worm Saloon and the aforementioned one.

all you really need from Mudhoney is Superfuzz Bigmuff.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #115 on: 16 Feb 2010, 02:27 »

I dunno, the later tracks with Dez on vocals from The First Four Years are pretty close to the way they sounded with Rollins on Damaged, you can hear how much Henry was influenced by Dez's style. I'm with you on the earlier stuff though tracks like Jealous Again are pretty far removed from the later sound, and if I want to listen to Keith Morris I'll go for Group Sex by the Circle Jerks every time, he was better in that band anyway. I'd go for My War and Slip It In before First Four Years anyway, side two of My War crushes and Slip It In is worth it for the riff in Black Coffee alone.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #116 on: 16 Feb 2010, 03:47 »

The best James Brown starter is the movie Rocky IV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PzkxS1OkY

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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #117 on: 16 Feb 2010, 04:11 »

I could probably make one CD of all the songs you really need to hear by Mudhoney, Black Flag and the BH Surfers. There'd be about ten minutes of silence at the end.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #118 on: 16 Feb 2010, 04:27 »

Incidentally, the CD would be approximately 12 min and 17 seconds long.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #119 on: 16 Feb 2010, 06:15 »

Just for funsies, let's give it a try -

1. Nervous Breakdown (2:07)
2. Fix Me (0:55)
3. I've Had It (1:20)
4. Wasted (0:51)
5. Jealous Again (1:52)
6. Revenge (0:59)
7. No Values (1:45)
8. I've Heard It Before (1:39)
9. Clocked In (1:29)
10. Police Story (1:30)
11. Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie (1:40)
12. My War (3:46)
13. Slip It In (6:17)
14. Black Coffee (4:53)
15. Modern Man (3:11)

16. Touch Me I'm Sick (2:23)
17. Into The Drink (2:08)
18. I Have to Laugh (3:29)
19. Into Your Schtick (3:48)

20. Hey (2:06)
21. Something (4:36)
22. Butthole Surfer (3:02)

51:06 in total.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #120 on: 16 Feb 2010, 06:28 »

With hindsight, Mudhoney were a terrific band, they just didn't write many great songs. That's the main reason I recommend March To Fuzz, the second side is mainly covers, which of course sound much better than their own songs on the first side. Especially 'Money Will Roll Right In', 'Fix Me', 'Dehumanized', 'Revolution', 'She's Just 15', 'Pump It Up', 'Editions of You', 'You Give Me The Creeps' etc.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #121 on: 16 Feb 2010, 06:42 »

I dunno, I still quite like a lot of Damaged even if you have cut most of it. I think 'Six Pack' is funny as hell if nothing else.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #122 on: 16 Feb 2010, 06:54 »

As someone who has seen Black Flag, Butthole Surfers, and Mudhoney all play live, (obviously not at the same time) y'all are seriously pushing me over the edge of the impeding midlife crisis that has been brewing for awhile.   You write about it in the same way I would write about selecting the best Vanilla Fudge album.  I (stupidly) just did the math on how long it has been since Black Flag broke up and got seriously depressed.   I think I'm going to go pluck grey hair or rant in the blog thread or something.


Sidebar trivia:  Out of the three Butthole Surfer shows I attended, At two of them the band accidentally lit the venue on fire. 
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #123 on: 16 Feb 2010, 07:37 »

On a very different note: where do I start with Nadja?

I'd go with Bodycage.  If you can't get into it you might not want to keep trying.
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #124 on: 16 Feb 2010, 08:18 »

I dunno, I still quite like a lot of Damaged even if you have cut most of it.

All of it, in fact. I was taking the original versions from the pre-Rollins era.

As someone who has seen Black Flag, Butthole Surfers, and Mudhoney all play live, (obviously not at the same time) y'all are seriously pushing me over the edge of the impeding midlife crisis that has been brewing for awhile.

At the height of their powers, I would definitely see all three of these bands live for sure. All three were pretty much renowned for being a stellar live act. However, I spent a lot of time and money on records by all three and with hindsight I would admit to liking roughly fifty minutes of their music combined. I can't say they were bad bands, I just think there's a lot of better music out there. Unless you're downloading, then I guess it makes no financial difference. However, at the time I was buying said records and now they all sit in my loft unloved.
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tricia kidd

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #125 on: 16 Feb 2010, 12:49 »

actually this is where you should start with the Butthole Surfers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcVbf-RXCmY
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #126 on: 16 Feb 2010, 13:20 »

Or here.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #127 on: 16 Feb 2010, 14:04 »

Or here.

punk rock label disputes are hardly anything new.  who founded SST?  oh right, that guy from Black Flag:

"SST's reputation was damaged severely when sound collage group Negativland fought a long legal battle with SST in the wake of its sampling lawsuit over their notorious "cover" of U2's hit "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", on the 1991 U2 single. The case was settled when Ginn and SST agreed to fully release most of Negativland's masters (mainly their Over The Edge series of cassettes) in exchange for completing work on a live album that had been planned long before their legal battles began, as well as keeping Negativland's three SST releases on the label for a short period (the copyright in those has since reverted to Negativland). This entire battle was later the basis for Negativland's 1995 book/CD, Fair Use: The Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2."
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"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

E. Spaceman

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #128 on: 16 Feb 2010, 14:06 »

but they were originally recorded before Damaged and without Rollins. You can find these versions on Everything Went Black.

I do wonder which versions specifically tommy means though. IIRC that record has versions with vocals from Dez, Morris and Chavo.


eeeedit: SST and T&G are vastly different cases though. SST had a lot of problems because Greg Ginn was not a very good businessman and the label often had money issues and in many cases did not pay the artists. Touch & Go was run efficiently, it provided greater artistic freedom to its artists and more money to boot.

In these particular cases the following can be gleaned:

SST was a dick to Negativland and they got screwed.
The Butthole Surfers were dicks to T&G and T&G got screwed, then they signed to a major and got screwed.
« Last Edit: 16 Feb 2010, 14:11 by E. Spaceman »
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tricia kidd

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #129 on: 16 Feb 2010, 14:20 »

i don't really see how the Butthole Surfers were being particularly dickish.  the idea of punk rock is owning your own material, isn't it?  why is it so bad that they wanted ownership over their albums, many years after the fact?  it seems like if either party were being dicks, it was both.  Rusk, as a punk rock record owner, should have not held on to the notion that he can indefinitely "own" the work of a band.  that goes against the principles of punk rock.
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #130 on: 17 Feb 2010, 10:54 »

(Police Story and Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie are both featured on Damaged)

The original versions are on Everything Went Black.

punk rock label disputes are hardly anything new.  who founded SST?  oh right, that guy from Black Flag:

SST is and was near enough the worst label in the history of the world in terms of actually paying their artists etc. I'd like to see somebody dispute that. Sub Pop came pretty close though.

However, T&G were and are nothing like either of the above. They were the independent label who did it all right, providing a fair service to their bands and genuinely heroic support. Corey Rusk has always been straight as an arrow in terms of their business and the BH Surfers exploited his kindness in a way which was utterly vile. They deliberately made a point of financially punishing a record label which stood testament to everything great about independent music and a friend who had bankrolled their recorded output when they first started.

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the idea of punk rock is owning your own material, isn't it?

Corey Rusk paid for these records to be made entirely. He paid for absolutely everything from recording studio fees, manufacturing and distribution. He remained true to his end of the deal (50/50 split, literally the best one going). The BH Surfers were even free to print up their own version of these records and cut T&G from the deal. Instead they sought financial compensation from a record label which had essentially made them.

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that goes against the principles of punk rock.

Yeah right. Show me where that is written. Ripping off the best independent label in the world for the fuck of it. Punk rock!
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #131 on: 17 Feb 2010, 11:54 »

SST might have had their problems but they aren't even in the same league as a label like Victory, which went beyond dodgy business practices (which were worse than SST's) into out-and-out racism for cash.

I don't see how The Butthole Surfers ripped T&G off exactly. T&G will definitely have made their money back on those records (if they hadn't, I'm sure they would have mentioned that they still needed to recoup costs). Frankly, T&G seems to have acted incredibly stupidly by ignoring the requests by the band's manager to renegotiate the contract. If he really thought the manager was acting without the band's knowledge and trying to find a way to get a cut of their back catalogue money then he was screwing the band over by not calling them up and telling them, instead he appears to have ignored the situation and hoped it would go away. And why shouldn't they be able to change the agreement? Remember, this is after T&G has recouped its costs on the records so by moving away from T&G they aren't costing them money. A handshake deal is done on the basis of trust, but if a band decides they don't trust a label to do the right thing anymore do they just have to live with a label that they feel isn't acting in their interests anymore?

Having said that, I don't think T&G were entirely in the wrong. The band should have made more of an effort to sort things out without lawyers, but I think characterising this as the evil money-grubbing Butthole Surfers robbing poor innocent T&G for no reason is going way too far.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #132 on: 17 Feb 2010, 12:43 »

I understand someone who is thinking from the perspective of a major record label/big business situation but that's the antithesis of T&G. They were a label based and handshakes and kinship based on a mutual appreciation of independent music. If you can't appreciate why this is so important, I doubt it's ever going to dawn on you. Nobody forced the BH Surfers to agree to a deal with T&G but once they did and used tens of thousands of dollars of the label's money, they were morally obligated to follow through with their end of the deal (again, literally the best deal in the business, with most other labels bands see a fraction of the earnings). Instead they not only reneged on their part, they actually sought financial compensation which put the label in a financial bind for some time and jeopardised its continuing existence.

You can't judge T&G by the standards of mainstream record labels, it's not the same thing at all. That's the point. By involving yourself with T&G, especially during this era, you were presumed to understand this.

Frankly, T&G seems to have acted incredibly stupidly by ignoring the requests by the band's manager to renegotiate the contract. If he really thought the manager was acting without the band's knowledge and trying to find a way to get a cut of their back catalogue money then he was screwing the band over by not calling them up and telling them, instead he appears to have ignored the situation and hoped it would go away.

Again, this is big business thinking. Corey Rusk did a deal with the band, whom he had an existing personal relationship with. There was no manager, no lawyers, no contracts because that was the point of Touch & Go. That's the distinction. You could work with T&G, they would give you literally to this day the fairest, most honest deal going and all you had to do was hold up your end of the deal. Nobody forced you into it, there were hundreds of labels which would happily screw you with contracts and legalese. That wasn't what you got which Touch & Go.

The BH Surfer's "manager" who allegedly contacted T&G shouldn't have been a factor. He wasn't involved with the original deal and indeed, by the standards of every other band on T&G, had a job which was the absolute antithesis of the independent ethos. From Corey Rusk's perspective, he had done a deal with some friends and held up his end of the deal, only to have a complete unknown call him out of the blue years later and try to involve himself. Remember that said "manager" wanted to negotiate a deal for these records with a major so he could have a percentage of the deal. A deal which would give the BH Surfers maybe six or seven percent of the sales, rather than the fifty they were getting with T&G.

And why shouldn't they be able to change the agreement? Remember, this is after T&G has recouped its costs on the records so by moving away from T&G they aren't costing them money.

They did cost them money. They forced T&G pay them some pretty extensive "damages" by invoking the law. The label which funded all of their early records and essentially allowed them to continue functioning as a band. The label which paid for their extensive recording sessions and gave them regular tour support for years. The label which held up their side of the deal entirely.

A handshake deal is done on the basis of trust, but if a band decides they don't trust a label to do the right thing anymore do they just have to live with a label that they feel isn't acting in their interests anymore?

Hahaha, "right thing". Hahahah. Butthole Surfers. Hahaha.

Touch & Go were still advertising these records to the independent market same as they always had. The BH Surfers were fine with this until they signed to a major.

Having said that, I don't think T&G were entirely in the wrong. The band should have made more of an effort to sort things out without lawyers, but I think characterising this as the evil money-grubbing Butthole Surfers robbing poor innocent T&G for no reason is going way too far.

Only if you consider the truth to be offensive. That's exactly what happened. Corey Rusk is one of the most trust-worthy, honest and decent human beings involved in music and always has been. He made a deal with some friends which was by industry standards absolutely the best one going and held up his end. The band in question tried and nearly succeeded in screwing him, his label and by association all the bands who worked with T&G for the fuck of it, essentially out of temporary misplaced greed.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #133 on: 17 Feb 2010, 13:40 »

Even when thinking of it in money matters.

Consider that the chain of events was pretty much as follows:

* The BH Surfers agree to a deal with T&G for a 50/50 split of the profits. As tommy points out this is the best deal ever.

* The BH surfers enjoy a fairly long career with T&G, they never really sell many records but they recieve 50% of what is sold and financing for many tours and their recording sessions. On any other label they would have likely just been axed or even if they didn't, they would only be making 8% of their not very large record sales

* The BH Surfers leave T&G for Rough Trade. T&G does not hinder this in any way, which is pretty much industry standard. No royalty adjustement, buying out of contracts or anything else happens. T&G continues to keep their back catalogue in print and the same economic split. Rough Trade essentially fucks over the BH Surfers.

* The BH Surfers sign to Capitol. Nothing much ensues at first, they sell slightly more records than before but recieve far less money for them.

*The BH Surfers demand that they now take 80% of the royalties. T&G understandably refuse. Now here is the crux of the matter. The BH Surfers' only possible motivation for this is money and ego. There is no other reason for it, they have made a couple of bad deals and now they have a manager who takes up a percentage of their income and here are these dudes at T&G taking 50% of their back catalogue even though they did nothing (except support them financially and emotionally, promoting them when they were unknown and keeping their back catalogue in print)

* The BH Surfers sue and win. They are awarded damages. T&G has to destroy all their stock of records and merchandise which means their back catalogue ceases to be in print and when it does go back in print it is done at a much less favourable split than before. T&G suffers an enormous setback in money which affects everyone on their label and other smaller labels who they distribute.

* The BH Surfers score a major hit with Pepper but afterwards fall out with the label over the next album, drop their manager and split with the label.


Tell me who won here other than the lawyers, Capitol and the manager?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #134 on: 17 Feb 2010, 13:50 »

The problem is, there are two accounts of what the deal with T&G was. The Butthole Surfers claim that the deal was to make records together as long as that was working whereas T&G says that they had the rights to release the records in perpetuity. You and I might think T&G's efforts to promote the band and the share of the royalties they got were all completely fair and within the spirit of the original agreement, but if by the time the band got dissatisfied T&G had recouped their initial investment I think they've got the right to walk away. That's what I meant by the label not losing money, if T&G had just said "we do 50/50 and we deal with you and not your manager because he had nothing to do with this, but you're free to take the back catalogue elsewhere if you think the fact we helped you out so much in the past and are continuing to do a good job for you means nothing". If the band want to be dicks and fuck themselves financially in the process then I think they have the right to do that, no matter how much I think it's a crappy thing to do and stupid in the bargain.

The problem with fighting it is that it makes verbal agreements more set in stone, and that's a problem if a band finds that they've got a verbal agreement with a label that, unlike T&G, does turn out to be untrustworthy down the line. What if you go with a label like Ebullition that doesn't distro to chains etc because that's in line with your ethics, but later they decide to start selling stuff through Amazon? T&G disputing the right of the band to decide who releases their old records could have meant a band seeing their back catalogue sold in places they did not want and not being able to do anything about it. If T&G had just seen the band walk off with their records for greed but not disputed their right to do it, in much the same way that Green Day screwed Lookout who relied for more extensively on their old records than T&G relied on the Butthole Surfers back catalogue, then I'd probably be slagging them off to. But fighting the band could have had unfortunate repercussions.

The fact that they were wanting to communicate through a manager and acting like a major label band means they were being arseholes, but I don't think that gives T&G the right to essentially force them to continue working with them. Why would you want them anyway? They're a major label band that want to act like rock stars, give them back their records when they ask and concentrate on the bands that are worth it. After all, Girls Against Boys et al aren't going to take the back catalogues from T&G because it's become legally viable by the precedent the Butthole Surfers set. The very point is that they want to work with T&G, if you need lawyers to force them to keep the arrangement going than it's time to walk away.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #135 on: 17 Feb 2010, 14:15 »

The problem is, there are two accounts of what the deal with T&G was. The Butthole Surfers claim that the deal was to make records together as long as that was working whereas T&G says that they had the rights to release the records in perpetuity.

It was working, that's the thing. It was working fine. It was working better than their subsequent deals with Rough Trade and Capitol. Fifty-fifty split, the records in print and in stores.

You and I might think T&G's efforts to promote the band and the share of the royalties they got were all completely fair and within the spirit of the original agreement, but if by the time the band got dissatisfied T&G had recouped their initial investment I think they've got the right to walk away. That's what I meant by the label not losing money, if T&G had just said "we do 50/50 and we deal with you and not your manager because he had nothing to do with this, but you're free to take the back catalogue elsewhere if you think the fact we helped you out so much in the past and are continuing to do a good job for you means nothing". If the band want to be dicks and fuck themselves financially in the process then I think they have the right to do that, no matter how much I think it's a crappy thing to do and stupid in the bargain.

You're right, they had the option to be incredible dicks about this and they were. They screwed the best independent record label in the world. Big whoop to them. The courts even upheld their "right" to be dishonest pricks. I cannot disagree with this because that is exactly what happened.

The problem with fighting it is that it makes verbal agreements more set in stone, and that's a problem if a band finds that they've got a verbal agreement with a label that, unlike T&G, does turn out to be untrustworthy down the line.

This is absolutely no kind of justification for the behaviour of the BH Surfers though because they were dealing with T&G, a label which is indisputably fair and honest with the bands they deal with. We can hypothesise all day long about the precedent but it doesn't excuse what the BH Surfers did at all.

The fact that they were wanting to communicate through a manager and acting like a major label band means they were being arseholes, but I don't think that gives T&G the right to essentially force them to continue working with them. Why would you want them anyway? They're a major label band that want to act like rock stars, give them back their records when they ask and concentrate on the bands that are worth it. After all, Girls Against Boys et al aren't going to take the back catalogues from T&G because it's become legally viable by the precedent the Butthole Surfers set. The very point is that they want to work with T&G, if you need lawyers to force them to keep the arrangement going than it's time to walk away.

Right, not every band is going to be absolute scumbags over their verbal agreements with T&G because you'd have to be an absolute shitheel to do so. I'm glad we are agreed on this.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #136 on: 17 Feb 2010, 14:53 »

the most fascinating part of this is watching Ptommy talk like he is intimate friends with everyone involved.

i've actually met the Butthole Surfers, and a much older friend of mine has worked with them since the early 90s.  by my observations and his stories, they are generally nice guys.

did they get caught up in the major-label, hit-single lifestyle and do something in a non-optimal way?  yes, i think so.  everybody makes mistakes.

as has been stated, greg ginn did far worse things to bands than the Surfers did to Rusk.  so hey Ptommy, try taking your personal grudge against the Surfers and your undying love for Black Flag out of this argument.

when you're dealing with fucked-up punk rockers, who may or may not be mentally stable or on drugs, and label owners who fit the same description, this sort of thing can happen.  to vilify them for it is misguided at best.

from a recent article:

"After seeing much of its heavy hitters—Girls Against Boys, the Jesus Lizard, Butthole Surfers—jump to a major label (not to mention losing an infamous legal wrangle with the Buttholes over album rights in 1999), Touch & Go stretched out, signing hip New York bands like the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and TV on the Radio. Two bands, who, of course, left for a major label."

maybe working with Rusk isn't all roses if all these bands constantly leave his label?
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #137 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:12 »

What a mess of shit that post is.

the most fascinating part of this is watching Ptommy talk like he is intimate friends with everyone involved.

Where? I've never met Rusk or the BH Surfers. Nothing in any of my above posts suggests otherwise. Regardless, it's irrelevant.

i've actually met the Butthole Surfers, and a much older friend of mine has worked with them since the early 90s.  by my observations and his stories, they are generally nice guys.

Right, the fact that "you" "met" the BH Surfers changes any of this. That completely overrides a band screwing over a label.

as has been stated, greg ginn did far worse things to bands than the Surfers did to Rusk.  so hey Ptommy, try taking your personal grudge against the Surfers and your undying love for Black Flag out of this argument.

Firstly, Greg Ginn is an irrelevance in the above. SST screwed over a lot of people. Neither has any bearing on T&G or the BH Surfers. Also, I already lauded the early records of the BH Surfers, said they were an incredibly live band and also to be honest I have no trouble with them aside from two people. Regardless of what I think, they made the decision to screw over a record label and on this occasion I'm calling a spade a spade. I also didn't mention Black Flag or SST in any of this argument, "you" did. Furthermore, if you actually look through my post history I am frequently critical of Black Flag. I don't listen to their music and frequently tell people not to bother with an overwhelming majority of their discography.

when you're dealing with fucked-up punk rockers, who may or may not be mentally stable or on drugs, and label owners who fit the same description, this sort of thing can happen.  to vilify them for it is misguided at best.

You have no idea about any of the things you talk about at all. I don't know where to begin with any of the above. You are an idiot.

maybe working with Rusk isn't all roses if all these bands constantly leave his label?

Bands leave independent record labels for many different reasons and in 95% of the times they regret doing so. It's always for money reasons. Lots of bands are willing to jeopardise everything for that 5% chance, most seeing it as an experiment. It doesn't bother me in all but a few cases. The BH Surfers going on a major wasn't an issue in itself, it was the much later decision to screw over the label that got them there in the first place which rankles.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #138 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:20 »

guys where should i start with music

it seems like something i would like and i want to try it

i am so tired of audiobooks

so tired
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #139 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:28 »

Tricia Kidd, where should I start with penis enlargement?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #140 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:30 »

Hahaha, "right thing". Hahahah. Butthole Surfers. Hahaha.

...

Touch & Go were still advertising these records to the independent market same as they always had.

...

Corey Rusk is one of the most trust-worthy, honest and decent human beings involved in music and always has been.

you're right, i don't know where i got the idea that you were holding forth as having some personal knowledge or bias.

also, you're very rude.  who are you to tell me that i have no knowledge of independent record labels and the troubles they often get into?  how would you know if i do or do not have any such knowledge?
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #141 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:30 »

guys where should i start with music

it seems like something i would like and i want to try it

i am so tired of audiobooks

so tired


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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #142 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:43 »

you're right, i don't know where i got the idea that you were holding forth as having some personal knowledge or bias.

I know all of the things I have said in this thread to be true from various public sources which are available to anybody who wants to Google it. Ninety percent of the stuff I have referred to in this thread is in the very article I already linked. I trust the people who tell me that Corey Rusk is an incredibly decent man because they are people who I do know and do find to be absolutely reliable as people. The proof is in his label and the thousands of people who have worked with or around him.

I didn't say anything about knowing Rusk or the BH Surfers, nor did I imply it.

also, you're very rude.  who are you to tell me that i have no knowledge of independent record labels and the troubles they often get into?  how would you know if i do or do not have any such knowledge?

I have no idea why you come here. You are not liked or welcome. You have been banned once and are now impersonating a possibly mythical sibling. Your posts distract decent discussions with absolutely baseless idiocy. Nothing you say is interesting, accurate or even entertaining. Your last post in this thread was out and out trolling, contained several absolute fabrications and made no sense in any way, shape or form. You are incapable of articulating your own opinions in a compelling manner, which would not be such a big deal if they weren't laughable in the first place.

I do not like you, I do not like most of your lazy, tossed off opinions which are all too frequently nonsense. You are an unwanted nuisance and I would be completely fine if you disappeared completely. Give it some serious thought.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #143 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:50 »

I have no idea why you come here. You are not liked or welcome. You have been banned once and are now impersonating a possibly mythical sibling.

oh boy, not this again.

i'm not my step-brother.  even if i were, just as many people have said they liked him as have said they didn't.
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tommydski

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #144 on: 17 Feb 2010, 15:55 »

You just have the same appalling taste, near enough identical diction, posting habits and the same sneering antagonistic tone about things you have little to no idea about then.

If you are planning to continue this pathetic masquerade and you want it to be anything other than unpleasant you need to put roughly 500% more thought into your posts.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #145 on: 17 Feb 2010, 16:04 »

why are you such an angry person?

also, provide examples of my appalling taste.  really.
« Last Edit: 17 Feb 2010, 16:09 by tricia kidd »
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #146 on: 17 Feb 2010, 16:17 »

No, you're genuinely not worth any more of my time.

Shape up or go away.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #147 on: 17 Feb 2010, 16:24 »

Shape up or go away.

why should i listen to anything you say?

it's nice to know you won't be responding to anything i post anymore, though.  it's a little hard to take, such bitter negativity!
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #148 on: 17 Feb 2010, 16:45 »

It was working, that's the thing. It was working fine.

It doesn't matter if anyone else thinks the arrangement was working, the band disagreed and the only opinions that matter when deciding if the arrangement was still working are those of T&G and the Butthole Surfers. Their reasons might have been crap ones but T&G tried to take away their right to make the decision of whether or not the arrangement was still a good one and I just don't think that's right. The Butthole Surfers being greedy and taking money away in the form of damages and destroyed stock doesn't change that. But it does make T&G somewhat culpable in the situation ending up in the nasty mess that it did, even if they weren't to blame as much as the band was and they were just trying to safeguard the future of a very good label. A bad decision rather than anything malicious, but then again the same could be said for what the band did.
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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #149 on: 17 Feb 2010, 16:59 »

Why do these slanging matches always flair up while I'm asleep?

Everyone who's talking about anything relevant to the thread topic, please continue.

Everyone else, please shut the fuck up, although if you want to continue discussing the history of the Butthole Surfers by all means start a thread about that.

Tommy and Tricia, I respect both of you to varying extents but I'm getting sick of you both ripping into each other all the time. This is a big forum and obviously we can't all be friends but we should at least be adult enough to stop baiting each other.

guys where should i start with music

Try Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. I just so happened to pick up a fantastic recording of it by Sviatoslav Richter on the weekend.
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