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Author Topic: Starcraft 2  (Read 95282 times)

Dazed

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #100 on: 04 May 2010, 04:58 »

Yeah bunkers are useless. Buildings in general die much faster than I remember in SC1.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #101 on: 04 May 2010, 18:00 »

Yeah there's almost no situation where I'd rather have a bunker/turret in place instead of a couple more units. Even photon cannons have become kind of passť.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #102 on: 04 May 2010, 18:37 »

bunkers more so than turrets and cannons/colonies are used less aside from early expansion protection simply because 4 marines are put to better use against immortals than they are eatting your food "just in case."
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #103 on: 05 May 2010, 13:41 »

bunkers more so than turrets and cannons/colonies are used less aside from early expansion protection simply because 4 marines are put to better use against immortals than they are eatting your food "just in case."

Cannons are useful for placement on expansions or to avoid reaper harassment without leaving units behind.  It's also nice to have a detector in your main rather than having to dedicate an observer there if your opponent is going DT or banshee.

Bunkers are useful for forward pushes as well . . but I'm not sure they work as well for use in your main.  They block a potential entrance.  Spine colonies are always useful.  I've held off a 12 roach rush with two spine colonies and 3 queens, just healing the spine colonies.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #104 on: 09 May 2010, 19:43 »

Jens, you are a gentleman and a scholar, but feel free to lend on your battle.net account to another worthy soul.

I got the pre-order code today so I could game with Stephen.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #105 on: 09 May 2010, 20:02 »

I am in the Beta for this now as well, and getting my ass regularly handed to me. I missed it so much.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #106 on: 09 May 2010, 21:06 »

Get me ya Battle.net email Phil. I needs friends.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #107 on: 10 May 2010, 00:42 »

I seem to win and lose in waves. I'll have a 4 or 5 game win streak and then all of a sudden I'll lose 3 times in a row. It's a little amusing.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #108 on: 12 May 2010, 16:14 »

If anyone want to hit me up (probably not) my handle is TrouserDisco.buttlord

Be forewarned: I kinda suck.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #109 on: 14 May 2010, 20:23 »

So, uh, has anyone figured out a reason to use the Planetary Fortress over the Orbital Thingy?
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #110 on: 14 May 2010, 20:31 »

If you're up for using the extra resources it's a useful choke point building, but that's about it really.
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scarred

Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #111 on: 14 May 2010, 20:51 »

There seems to be a lot of units and buildings that just seem heavily unnecessary for online play. Perhaps they'll factor into the campaign somewhat, but I'm not too worried either way. From what I've heard about the Galaxy Editor, this game is literally going to become its own platform, and that's the part for which I'm most excited.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #112 on: 14 May 2010, 20:57 »

Planetary fortress is good for late game expansion where you really dont need more scanning, but the extra defense is useful.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #113 on: 14 May 2010, 21:23 »

I guess. I dunno, I think I'd still rather have access to MULEs and the the ability to crap out a buff supply depot if some of my shit gets wrecked.
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Ozymandias

Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #114 on: 14 May 2010, 23:22 »

Planetary is also good for defending yr supply lines against sneaky attacks while your main force is engaged.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #115 on: 15 May 2010, 01:56 »

Anyone else getting randomly obliterated by early slow marauders when they play toss? It seems I do pretty alright most of the time, but then some dude with sweet micro rolls in and kites the shit out of my zealots unless I'm super careful with force field.


Holy shit, it's 4 am. God dammit Starcraft.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #116 on: 15 May 2010, 02:24 »

Imortals. They do shit load of damage and can withstand quite alot. 1 gate, cybernetics core and then robotichs. And then 1 or 2 gateways after that. Only solution I've found.

I really don't know why anyone would go anything except robotics or 4 gate as protoss. Ok, void rays are good if you can suprise with them but generally not. High or dark templars just costs way to much so they are confined to late game. Carriers are cool, but the cost... either you are allready winning when you are geting them or you will be run over while they are being built. So ok, super super late game.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2010, 02:29 by Covetous »
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #117 on: 15 May 2010, 02:51 »

Yeah, the voids aren't really viable in the situations I'm talking about, since it's the real aggressive guys who push when they only have like 3-5 Marauders that are really giving me the shits and Terrans apparently can tech to marauders quicker than toss can tech up to anything that counters them hard. Mostly I'm trying to split them with force field, but the guys with really good micro are making me pay real dearly just for taking out a couple of marauders. It's one of those situations where I keep my base but find myself fighting uphill for the rest of the match.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #118 on: 15 May 2010, 12:55 »

When I play as Terran, I always harass the enemy's workers with Reapers.  Once I get two barracks built I get a refinery and then a tech lab and pump out two Reapers ASAP.

If the player is smart he'll have a photon cannon or a few zerglings or marines ready next to his CC but if he's not then I can kill a good third to half of their workers.  Once they wise up and bring their units to defend their workers, I just jump my Reapers out of their and hang them out next to a possible expansion point so when the player does go to expand, I can delay it a little.  Works great.  Reaper rushes are very good, and be sure to micro them to get out of there or you're just wasting resources.

And thanks for the tip on the Immortals, my Protoss early game really sucks (except for zealot rushing zerg.)
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #119 on: 15 May 2010, 13:09 »

Yeah, like Ozy said a while back, you always have to watch for the damn reaper rush/harass. I suspect the only reason it doesn't happen even more often is that you're getting people looking at their barracks and thinking "Nah, too obvious." Still, the sick thing is like you said, you really only need to get 2 reapers in to start chewing through workers at a ridiculous clip, and sometimes it takes a bit before they turn on you and attack with the workers.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2010, 13:16 by Alex C »
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #120 on: 15 May 2010, 15:29 »

Eh, reaper harass never works on me and when I do it it never works on anyone decent. You're honestly better off just massing up some m&m's and teching to air support.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #121 on: 16 May 2010, 02:29 »

Ghosts are slowly chipping away at my will to live.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #122 on: 16 May 2010, 03:10 »

NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED, BITCH!
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #123 on: 16 May 2010, 12:38 »

 :cry:
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #124 on: 16 May 2010, 12:39 »

Actually, I play toss, so it's mostly the EMPs. Still, you know a unit is a bad match up for you when their nuclear weapons are a secondary concern.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #125 on: 16 May 2010, 21:33 »

Actually, I play toss, so it's mostly the EMPs. Still, you know a unit is a bad match up for you when their nuclear weapons are a secondary concern.
emp and then nuke?
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #126 on: 17 May 2010, 09:38 »

I guess. I dunno, I think I'd still rather have access to MULEs and the the ability to crap out a buff supply depot if some of my shit gets wrecked.

If you're Terran and keep an SCV building Supply Depos and using energy for Mules, you should have plenty of both minerals and supply.

It's really useful for the maps with the high-yield minerals towards the middle of the map.  It'll most likely be the first place to be attacked, and it'll give you an edge over the incoming army.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #127 on: 17 May 2010, 10:14 »

The problem with EMP > Nuke, is that once a Toss army is EMPed, if the guy has any idea of what he's doing, there will be a retreat.
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Alex C

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #128 on: 17 May 2010, 11:39 »

Yep. You're better off stimming and picking off as many toss as you can; pretty nasty when you consider the concussion grenades.

Oh well, at least I still have Storm.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #129 on: 17 May 2010, 14:44 »

Yep. You're better off stimming and picking off as many toss as you can; pretty nasty when you consider the concussion grenades.

Oh well, at least I still have Storm.

EMP'd templar = useless.

Alternatively, you can snipe them.  2 snipes per templar is easy and quick.  Snipe is my best friend.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2010, 14:48 by DavidGrohl »
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #130 on: 17 May 2010, 15:57 »

Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean toss shouldn't run High Templars if the game somehow progesses so far that teching much beyond collosi is viable (which in my experience it usually doesn't, admittedly). Just the threat of them evens the playing field quite a bit. Prior to teching up to Templars, ghosts are the bastards that wipe out half your strike force's effective health in one fell swoop. Post Templars, Ghosts also become those guys who are on Templar duty lest their medivacs get Feedback nuked or their MM ball gets wrecked by Storm. The fact that EMP is so valuable against so many targets almost works against the Terrans just a li'l bit. It almost becomes a li'l bit like an elaborate game of chicken as far as energy management is concerned; EMPing a Sentry is often only a good idea if you've got all HTs accounted for, which can be sort of tricky if toss is stowing guys away in prisms.

But yeah, ghosts are jerks and I hate their faces.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2010, 16:07 by Alex C »
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DavidGrohl

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #131 on: 17 May 2010, 20:11 »

Personally, in my games -- if the Protoss tries teching to templar (and researching storm), they've lost already.  I'll put enough pressure on them that the gas intensiveness of the templars will doom them against my pushes. 

I make it a point to make sure they need those extra two colossi or immortals or their base will be toast.  Tank pressure is a pain in the ass to deal with . . .
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #132 on: 17 May 2010, 20:21 »

Games that last until truly "late" game are kinda rare in general, tbh, and ones where things are still relatively even are even rarer. But if it does last that long templars can be pretty devastating. They can be countered, sure, but you can't ignore them.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #133 on: 18 May 2010, 03:43 »

So this phase of the beta ends on the 31st. This is basically right around the time I actually get a chance to play.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #134 on: 18 May 2010, 04:26 »

are the Phoenix a good anti air counter to the vikings? every video ive seen of them they have been easy to take down from the looks of it.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #135 on: 18 May 2010, 20:47 »

are the Phoenix a good anti air counter to the vikings? every video ive seen of them they have been easy to take down from the looks of it.

You don't generally need anti-air versus vikings since they are Terran's Anti-air.  The range and speed of the vikings make them impossible to kite with some Pheonix.  If you want to compete, you're going to have to match them on numbers (close to them, at least).  If they have a few vikings, just protect your minerals and front with a few cannons.  If they're going mass viking, get stalkers WITH BLINK / immortal / zealots, and hit their base.  Vikings are not that strong of a land unit.  Their strength is in their mobility.  In a land vs. land fight, they get dominated -- so bring the fight to their base and make them fight.  If you think they might start dominating your base, you can always get your stalkers there to defend and leave the rest to finish or attack their base.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #136 on: 18 May 2010, 22:10 »

You really ought to think of your air as being purely a support role as toss, especially vs. terran. For the most part a few nix are nice for countering banshees if they gamble that way early and for picking off siege tanks with graviton after you're done doing that. I use nix most vs. other toss so far, but generally speaking I want moar colossi vs. well, pretty much anyone, so it's definitely a li'l dab will do ya situation. Still, gravitoning ghosts makes me happy.
« Last Edit: 18 May 2010, 22:16 by Alex C »
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Ozymandias

Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #137 on: 18 May 2010, 23:47 »

It seems to me air units in SC2 are support and harassment, not armies. Rushing to air can win you the game depending on your race and your opponents race (e.g. Protoss vs. Terran should never have an early aerial victory, Terran vs. Zerg can) resulting in specific moments in the game when an air army will win it, but brood lords/carriers/battlecruisers are not a viable endgame frontline strategy vs. a competent opponent. They will, however, make delightfully short work of production.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #138 on: 18 May 2010, 23:58 »

resulting in specific moments in the game when an air army will win it

Good timing pushes are one of those things that still consistently beat the piss out of me. I'm relatively proud of my micro, but a lot of the times I can see what my opponent is doing only to end up saying to myself "Well, shit, that's kinda weird," and then struggle a bit to do anything about it anyway. My macro sucks.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #139 on: 19 May 2010, 00:00 »

My problem lies in switching quickly between the 2, or doing both at once. I try to keep my macro going whilst actively fighting, but I feel like I'm sacrificing too much micro against decent opponents.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #140 on: 19 May 2010, 00:06 »

I'll just put it this way: If I beat you it's probably because I did something cheesey as hell. What can I say; I favor the grand gesture.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #141 on: 19 May 2010, 08:32 »

Check this out guys.

I made a multiplayer 3rd person action game with the Galaxy Editor.

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #142 on: 19 May 2010, 12:58 »

A really solid way to practice macro is to play Zerg for a while. It is technically the hardest macro to fine tune but if you simply 14pool/15hatch and get queens up and focus on expanding creep/tumors/rally your army points you can get some real solid practice in with rotating your larva spawns and droning hard with a fast enough advantage to spam lings/hydras and just a-move them on the mini map so you can continue your macro. The biggest point I can argue for boosting your macro is that a heavy micro focus undoes your "big game" more than anything. Ignore your battles for a while and just keep producing army at every opportunity, the constant stream of a zerg attack is more than enough to keep your opponent focused on his micro which lets you expand with every big push you make, and as a result making every push bigger and bigger.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #143 on: 25 May 2010, 10:32 »

oh god custom games are now playable

oh god

i am never leaving this game
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #144 on: 25 May 2010, 15:15 »

A really solid way to practice macro is to play Zerg for a while. It is technically the hardest macro to fine tune but if you simply 14pool/15hatch and get queens up and focus on expanding creep/tumors/rally your army points you can get some real solid practice in with rotating your larva spawns and droning hard with a fast enough advantage to spam lings/hydras and just a-move them on the mini map so you can continue your macro. The biggest point I can argue for boosting your macro is that a heavy micro focus undoes your "big game" more than anything. Ignore your battles for a while and just keep producing army at every opportunity, the constant stream of a zerg attack is more than enough to keep your opponent focused on his micro which lets you expand with every big push you make, and as a result making every push bigger and bigger.
Completely agree. I get the feeling that if zerg can manage to fend off harass, passive play into mid-late game really favors them. They might be weaker at 200/200 because or roach (hydra/ling +/- baneling still solid) but they can replenish their army so quickly.

Even WhiteRa's victory over idrA was hard fought. I hear Zerg is complaining a lot about terran mech lately though (marine/tank/hellion/thor).
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #145 on: 25 May 2010, 15:46 »

My biggest complaint about conservative macro zerg play is how spine crawlers take damn near a year and a day to build after you factor in the drone.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #146 on: 25 May 2010, 16:14 »

My biggest complaint about conservative macro zerg play is how spine crawlers take damn near a year and a day to build after you factor in the drone.

If you need them ASAP, isn't it better to just start producing a new drone, and drag one from the mineral line to build the crawler? It sets you back a tiny bit economically, but waiting for the drone seems kinda micro-ineffective.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #147 on: 25 May 2010, 17:03 »

You know what I mean though; the drones still have to come from somewhere. I guess it's just my protoss bias shining through again; for all their disadvantages, you can slap down photon cannons real fast and they only take 40 seconds to build vs. 50 for the Spine Crawler. Crawlers just seem pokey to me, although I must admit I've gotten more mileage out of them than I usually get out of the very few cannons I build these days. Zerg is quite the mental leap for me to play though; they are a pretty straight forward race aside from the buildings, creep and workers juggling act, whereas toss buildings are pretty fire and forget aside from pylon placement (which, honestly, isn't hard). As was said earlier, they really require you to shift focus to your infrastructure.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2010, 17:07 by Alex C »
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #148 on: 26 May 2010, 12:32 »

I'll take the extra 10 seconds build time for the uproot portability.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #149 on: 26 May 2010, 15:52 »

I never said they were broken. I just dislike how long they take.
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the ship has Dr. Pepper but not Mr. Pibb; it's an absolute goddamned travesty
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