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Author Topic: Starcraft 2  (Read 116651 times)

McTaggart

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #250 on: 28 Jul 2010, 23:07 »

I really want to love Zerg. I like the idea, I like the aesthetic but I can't macro hard enough and they feel kinda one dimensional.
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LeeC

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #251 on: 28 Jul 2010, 23:21 »

I cant seem to find it on IMDB but I am fairly sure General Warfield is voiced by Micheal Clark Duncan!

edit: I beat the story mode and its actually not MCD, its Gary Anthony Williams who does the voice of uncle rukus on the boondocks.

Great game, great story, tons of twists and turns.
« Last Edit: 29 Jul 2010, 00:17 by LeeC »
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #252 on: 29 Jul 2010, 04:57 »

I really want to love Zerg. I like the idea, I like the aesthetic but I can't macro hard enough and they feel kinda one dimensional.

They are one dimensional to me.  It's not about complexity, it's about the numbers.
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McTaggart

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #253 on: 29 Jul 2010, 06:43 »

I'm so tired of games giving you minor choices to make about the story, especially when they're presented to you as bluntly as they are here. "Do you choose to side with A or B?". I don't fucking know, you're the narrator. I'd be fine with it if it was a game where you play a character of your own creation and who your character is and how they act is up to you, but in a game with a story already written and characters already envisaged it feels out of place. I don't know Jim Raynor. I only met him a couple of days ago. I don't know how he would respond to this and the decision he would make has an impact on the sort of person I see him as.

Hell I'd be fine with forking the story if it happened in an organic way so that you didn't have to explicitly choose and you didn't know that it was happening. For example you're given two objectives and after completing one of them the story forks before you get a chance to do the other.

It just throws you out of the story when you're forced to make decisions about it like that. I normally end up just leaving it for as long as possible and then grudgingly flipping a coin if I have to. I'd like to think that the writers put a little more thought into it than that.
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #254 on: 29 Jul 2010, 07:32 »

Meh, I liked the one choice I've gotten so far*. It was an important choice between two goals, both with clear pros and cons. Sure, it doesn't quite fit within the narrative style of the game, where the player isn't really there, unlike in SC and BW, where you were a commander in the different factions that worked with the protagonists. But I still think it's better than giving you two objectives, and then leaving you unable to pursue one after you've finished the other - that just makes the player feel tricked. "Hey! you promised me content, and now it's gone! fuck!". Then they'll reload to try if you could get the rewards from both missions if you did the other one first, and that'll detach the player from the story. Sure, you can probably pull it off, but I want to know when I'm potentially changing the story.



*(spoilz: kill the infected terrans, or save them?)
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McTaggart

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #255 on: 29 Jul 2010, 08:02 »

I think "choose which of these two arcs you don't want to see" is even worse from that point of view because they're telling you outright that there's content you're not going to see. If you just make it consequences of what you actually do then people won't even notice that there's another way things can go.
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DavidGrohl

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #256 on: 29 Jul 2010, 09:25 »

I think "choose which of these two arcs you don't want to see" is even worse from that point of view because they're telling you outright that there's content you're not going to see. If you just make it consequences of what you actually do then people won't even notice that there's another way things can go.

I agree, but I can see people arguing that it makes for more replayability, like the different Dragon Age Origin stories.
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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #257 on: 29 Jul 2010, 12:25 »

Are you losers done with this stupid game yet? Because it's time to get pumped about Heart of the Swarm.
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #258 on: 29 Jul 2010, 17:14 »

EDIT: Forum's not letting me... post spoiler tags? wat

Speaking of Zerg, they cleared up the Kerrigan issue awfully fast

I mean, I kinda thought it was going to go in that direction but I didn't expect them to do it in the *very first game*

 :-(
« Last Edit: 29 Jul 2010, 17:30 by satsugaikaze »
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LeeC

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #259 on: 29 Jul 2010, 17:17 »

Speaking of Zerg, they cleared up the Kerrigan issue awfully fast

I mean, I kinda thought it was going to go in that direction but I didn't expect them to do it in the *very first game*

 :-(
spoiler alert?
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ArcAirbender

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #260 on: 29 Jul 2010, 17:25 »

Without being emotional about it, I want to talk a little bit more about SC2 now that it is out.

Yes, I bought it. I feel wrong about it because there are a number of key game politics I feel strongly against. For one there is an online activation that must always be met before an install is done. They are in their right, and are not being deceptive about it (it clearly states it in the system requirements). I feel, however, that such decision would be negative in the very long run (and I'm talking about history here, not necessarily replayability). Imagine Beethoven's 9th could only be played by asking permission to Beethoven himself. All fine and dandy until he dies.

Starcraft 1 may or may not not end up in the halls of human heritage, but that is an open decision left to our future generations.
Starcraft 2 will not even have the option, unless a cracked version is kept within the archives.

In the end, I find it ironically appropriate that such greed might end up costing them their legacy.
Right on!
...corporate sellouts.

However, having established this will not be a (major) factor unless you do not have an internet connection, I do have a more practical quarrel with Blizzard. According to computers and videogame's website, there is a reference about the possibility of having to pay for "premium units". The news is not clear about it sources, nor if such premium units will be the ones introduced in future expansions (a la brood war), or if they are talking about a World of Warcraft dick move.

From the website:
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To add insult to injury, one has to keep spending even more money if he wants any "premium maps" and "premium units" sold only via the BattleNet. Since this is a game that will be played mostly online don't be ready to dismiss this if you have a competitive streak.

I love playing competitively; an important part of my purchase decision was taking what the multiplayer component would bring to the longevity factor.
That would be moot the moment they start charging ANYTHING for the introduction of new units outside a full expansion set.

Another thing I feel very strong about is exactly what McTaggart just replied a few lines behind me:
I'm so tired of games giving you minor choices to make about the story ...I don't fucking know, you're the narrator. I'd be fine with it if it was a game where you play a character of your own creation and who your character is and how they act is up to you, but in a game with a story already written and characters already envisaged it feels out of place.
But in all honesty, I'm going to have to take it for a spin to form a more solid opinion about the subject, it might very well work out. Just want to state that longevity is not always a good thing (obvious fact is obvious).

On a final note: hell, having seen all the shitty stuff Blizzard is already doing (and the rumors of far worse stuff) makes me appreciate Valve's Steam service. Those Valve dudes are alright in my book.

The ultimate irony relies, then, within the game title. Wings of Liberty.
A more fitting title would definitely be: Wings of Slavery.

-Arc
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #261 on: 29 Jul 2010, 17:25 »

spoiler alert?

I probably should have, yes.

As for Blizzard making us pay excessively for nonsense, nothing surprises me anymore. In these cases I usually just sigh and say "I blame Activision".
« Last Edit: 29 Jul 2010, 17:28 by satsugaikaze »
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Alex C

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #262 on: 29 Jul 2010, 19:24 »

The ultimate irony relies, then, within the game title. Wings of Liberty.
A more fitting title would definitely be: Wings of Slavery.


Ya know, when you end a post like this, it makes me feel dumber for having read it. The rest of it is pretty OK, even if I don't really agree with it, but this made me face palm Picard style.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #263 on: 29 Jul 2010, 20:05 »

The ultimate irony relies, then, within the game title. Wings of Liberty.
A more fitting title would definitely be: Wings of Slavery.

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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #264 on: 29 Jul 2010, 23:50 »

Yeah I am liking the mission variety a lot so far, especially because I rather enjoyed the escort mission, and no one likes those.
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Dazed

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #265 on: 30 Jul 2010, 07:27 »

Welp, got it yesterday afternoon, done with the campaign now at 10:30 in the morning. It was good for me.
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DavidGrohl

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #266 on: 30 Jul 2010, 09:05 »

I'm taking it slow -- playing through on Brutal.

It's very fun so far and the story is just starting to pick up . . or so I think.  (6th mission)
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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #267 on: 30 Jul 2010, 11:00 »

yeah wtf i am not trying to rush this. I'm playing on Hard because I am a pussy but I just finished the zombie infested terran outbreak mission, which was a blast
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McTaggart

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #268 on: 30 Jul 2010, 11:20 »

The best mission is the one on redstone, purely for the way the critters run to hills when the lava is coming.
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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #269 on: 30 Jul 2010, 11:33 »

that mission was really frustrating until i realized i was retarded and that i should just invest in a medium-sized squad to follow around my ccs
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DavidGrohl

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #270 on: 30 Jul 2010, 12:47 »

yeah wtf i am not trying to rush this. I'm playing on Hard because I am a pussy but I just finished the zombie infested terran outbreak mission, which was a blast

That was a huge pain in the ass on Brutal.  After the 5th day, you pretty much get one more shot at the buildings before they just overwhelm you (regardless of how well you've fortified).  I ended up winning the 5th day after barely surviving the base destruction at night.  I killed the last infected building just after night started.  I don't think I would have had as much fun if I weren't playing it on this difficulty.

I may replay through the missions on a easier difficulty to grab some of the achievements.  On one of the first holdout missions, it's nearly impossible to get the 'Destroy 4 hatcheries' achievement on Brutal.

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #271 on: 30 Jul 2010, 14:29 »

I'll defintely replay on Brutal at some point. I wasn't even really trying to rush through, I was playing on hard. Some of the missions were absurdly easy still, but some of them were pretty challenging and i can definitely see them being a huge pain in the dick on brutal. (The Laser Drill mission comes to mind).
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Alex C

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #272 on: 30 Jul 2010, 14:39 »

 On one of the first holdout missions, it's nearly impossible to get the 'Destroy 4 hatcheries' achievement on Brutal.

I had a tricky time of that on hard, actually, partly because I was also trying to get that "Give Up Nothing" achievement on the same go, and that apparently doesn't even let you salvage bunkers. I gave up on that pretty quick, since holding those stupid outer defense buildings while still having enough marines running around out there to go curb stomp the hatcheries is a pain in the ass, so I settled for just taking out the hatcheries. I'll probably just do "Give Up Nothing" on normal, since that shouldn't take anything more than a couple bunkers and an SCV to basically play itself.
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A Wet Helmet

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #273 on: 30 Jul 2010, 17:08 »

Downloading now.

There goes my motivation for awhile.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #274 on: 31 Jul 2010, 06:45 »

Holy shit, the digital version of this game is $90 AUD.  Can you get it from anywhere other than direct from Blizzard?  Because if not, fuck this shit until the price comes down.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #275 on: 31 Jul 2010, 06:59 »

Also I am not sure why people get their panties all up in a bunch about online activation.  Once you activate the game online you can play it offline.  They are Blizzard, so battlenet is gonna be around for a while yet, and if they go bust then fuck it, just get a crack.

The thing I'm most annoyed about is this shit-tastic little nugget:

Quote
What exactly is region specific for activation?
Both game clients (downloaded or shipped) will only connect to the region for which they were made. Therefore, in order for you to log in to Battle.net and begin playing, both the StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty™ game license and the installed game client MUST be for the same region. If the game license and the game client don't match, you will not be unable to login.

Things like this is why Australians get screwed more often than not on game prices.  Like, I could kind of understand jacking up prices when it was physical distribution and you had to bring shit over on a boat or a plane and take a punt on selling your product in our pissant low-pop country, but when you are providing a fucking link on a website or some other digital distribution service and taking people's money via credit card there is no good reason why we should still be getting screwed (other than "because be can, and anyway you guys should be used to it by now")
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #276 on: 31 Jul 2010, 07:11 »

I don't entirely understand that, but I'm getting my game shipped to me via Amazon so it might be quite an issue for me.

What is that going to mean for me when I activate it? Will shitty hijinks ensue and make it unplayable or what?
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #277 on: 31 Jul 2010, 08:45 »

I can't get why that should be a problem - if you buy the game from the US, and register a US bnet account, wouldn't everything run perfectly regardless of where you are?
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #278 on: 01 Aug 2010, 11:29 »

Oh fuuuuck! I had my first try at multi today, realizing that there's a far way from watching replays and being able to play. but I play in the training thingies, so I guess everybody else is as bad. I've chosen zerg as my first race to try, since if I ever get lost when my macro faaar outraces my army count, i can just mash "spawn zergling" to my hearts content.

I lost the first game against a toss player who straight out stalker-rushed me twice, and I was completely unable to keep up in army count. Then I crushed another toss with my BROOD LORDS OF DOOM. Seriously, I could tell that he was as fresh as me, since his entire army fell to trying to kill the broodlings. He had spawned units in my base twice at that point, and the first one was close to gg (one out of place zealot that I spotted by chance allowed me to rush back and defend). It's pretty great, if anyone of you wants to show me the ropes in 1v1, send a PM!

Or even better: if you want to be bad together. I could so do that.
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Alex C

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #279 on: 01 Aug 2010, 12:04 »

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty typical newbie experience. Stalkers will be a helluva lot more manageable for you as zerg once your macro gets up to snuff with some simple practice. Teching well makes a huge difference; a good speedling surround means they absolutely have to blink if they don't want to get shredded, and that can mean leaving their sentries to get trashed. And without sentries grooved hydras do really well against stalkers, blink or no blink.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #280 on: 01 Aug 2010, 12:18 »

So 4v4 random'ing is the dumbest thing ever. There is literally no way to stop straight teching mass void rays. I went 5-0 qualifying just by teching mass void rays and 4v1'ing the other team while my team covered my ass.
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #281 on: 01 Aug 2010, 14:31 »

4v4 seems like a massive slaughterfest of randomness. Like TF2 18v18 norespawnpubs.
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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #282 on: 01 Aug 2010, 15:09 »

yeah 3v3 and 4v4 are typically insane unless you are playing with friends
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DavidGrohl

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #283 on: 01 Aug 2010, 18:54 »

yeah 3v3 and 4v4 are typically insane unless you are playing with friends

Even then.  With the game mechanics like they are, you can't defend against a group of four armies without having a group of four armies. 

It's also impossible to cover an entire area and react in time to do so, making a typical 4v4 a slaughterfest for one side.

I'll stick with 1v1 and maybe the occasional 2v2, which is a bit more balanced.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #284 on: 01 Aug 2010, 21:47 »

2v2 is alright if yr partner isn't a complete twat, which is usually the case. so for now i've been sticking to 1v1 and FFA
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #285 on: 01 Aug 2010, 23:50 »

Me and my friends are total lame-os so we only play Big Game Hunters variants, aka SUPER TURTLE maps. Contrary to my expectations, SC2 plays just as well as SC1 in this mode despite the increased focus on micro, largely because the AI has been so drastically updated and the ground war is so much more important. In SC1, AI bots would randomly be stricken dumb, leaving one or two out of four just sitting and endlessly collecting resources without advancing past the barracks / warp gate / spawning pool stage. With adjustable difficulties that's never a problem here, and AI allies will back up your forces and come to your rescue with a fair amount of intelligence.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #286 on: 02 Aug 2010, 06:12 »

SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things I liked :
The story and interaction with the crew on the ship.
The upgrade system.
The mission variety.
Ticheus (and his voice acting)
The cinematics.
The game is still awesome.


Things I disliked :
Ticheus's betrayal fight. Why was he so upset that they were pursuing Kerrigan? Wasn't he trying to earn his freedom?
Who actually hired Ticheus, anyways?
The open-ended story. What the fuck will happen to the zerg? Won't this doom the galaxy to the Xel-Naga? I doubt Kerrigan is as powerful as The Queen of Blades.
The mercenary system makes the gameplay too static. At some point, I wasn't using any factories / starports (except for science vessels) / barracks (except for medics). I just kept my mercs alive.

Side Notes :
HOLY FUCK, the last stand mission with the Protoss is nearly impossible on brutal. 2500 kills? Are you serious?
I really, really hope they don't just add units they left out to the races with the expansion (like adding a lurker, goliath, wraith, spectre, etc.).
« Last Edit: 02 Aug 2010, 06:15 by DavidGrohl »
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #287 on: 02 Aug 2010, 09:32 »

Tychus. It's Tychus.

As far as I could understand (still spoilers here, folks), it was the mobius foundation under prince Valerian who wanted Sarah dead. I guess he didn't want to pursue Kerrigan because that would lead to a confrontation where he would a) die or b) have to kill Jim.


The merc system was pretty darn powerful, but so were all the things you could get. I want to try and go through the game again, and try to skip out on them entirely, and only get unit upgrades. Some of them were pretty overpowered too, but then again you were facing much larger enemy forces, so I never felt that stuff wasn't balanced. Even though being able to resurrect thors might've been overkill.

What choices did you guys make? I killed the colonists and stopped the flyers (do I want to fight brood lords or nitus worms in the final mission. WHAT A HARD DECISION!). I'm pretty interested in how not killing the colonists would've worked out, though. I'll have to try that too.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #288 on: 02 Aug 2010, 09:54 »

Tychus. It's Tychus.

As far as I could understand (still spoilers here, folks), it was the mobius foundation under prince Valerian who wanted Sarah dead. I guess he didn't want to pursue Kerrigan because that would lead to a confrontation where he would a) die or b) have to kill Jim.

(still spoilers[/color)
OK, that's a good explanation.  It still doesn't make sense why he then attacks Jim, which from the looks of it a single punch would do him in with that suit.  So I'm not sure about a) or b), since killing Jim would most likely lead to a).

Anyways, I also killed the colonists.  I'm not sure what happens story-wise, but I'm sure you still end up letting the Protoss kill the colonists and get the cool cinematic aboard the ship.

I also stopped the flyers, but I think it might have been easier the other way around -- since the upgraded vikings and missile turrets are overkill against air.  It'd also take care of the Overlord drop in the mission (which isn't that big of a deal, I guess).

I played that mission on Brutal, and if you didn't kill off the nydus canals with banshees asap, you're pretty much done for.

I also missed out on the secret mission.  I'll have to grab it on a replay (it's accessed on the mission with the huge Thor whose name escapes my mind; you have to kill a building in the lower right in the fog of war).
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Dazed

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #289 on: 04 Aug 2010, 01:07 »

I love Thors. LOOOOOOOOOVE.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #290 on: 04 Aug 2010, 11:53 »

Am I the only guy in the world who plays zerg? I was going to try out all the races, but since I've only matched up against toss and terran (and 3 toss for every terran), I'm guessing that playing something that nobody else wants to play gives me an edge.

And God damn, it's hard to keep up with my macro. In the slowed down practise leagues, I usually end up with 1k+ minerals that I just can't spend on anything, since I tend to forget to spawn larvae. I've got no problem saving up for upgrades, because the money are always there, and that's kinda bad, because I'd prefer to have 10 extra banelings to crush everything.

Banelings are pretty damn awesome. Is the m&m ball moving, but not attack moving? BANELINGS! Is the Collossus aiming for my lings/roaches/hydras? BANELINGS! Is there a bunch of production facilities blocking their ramp? LOT'S OF BANELINGS!
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scarred

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #291 on: 04 Aug 2010, 13:10 »

I like Zerg a lot in anything but 1v1, provided I don't have to tech any higher than Hydras (and I usually don't, hehehehe)
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Damnable Fiend

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #292 on: 04 Aug 2010, 14:29 »

Right now, in Ontario anyway, EB is offering the game for 9.99 if you trade in two other games (I assume they have to be new-ish games)
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est

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #293 on: 05 Aug 2010, 05:19 »

Trading in games is not really a thing I do, and also EB can suck a dick and/or dicks.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #294 on: 05 Aug 2010, 06:53 »

Banelings are pretty damn awesome. Is the m&m ball moving, but not attack moving? BANELINGS!

Burrow them and manually detonate them.

If you time it right you get a better effect anyways, since when you attack initially, half the explosion is behind the baneling.  Underground, if you time it right, you can get the full AoE effect for each baneling.

If they have a raven, forget about it.  Most Terran players won't make those for quite a while anyways.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #295 on: 05 Aug 2010, 12:35 »

I am a bad man. I decided to say yes to the practice league matches, (thinking it would be 5 again not 50) and without fail reapers win me every game in under 10 minutes. i played nice once and got a banshee out to mix it up a little and then my opponent just quit as soon as he saw it :(
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #296 on: 05 Aug 2010, 13:19 »

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beat mouse

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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #297 on: 05 Aug 2010, 13:25 »

I remember that. Son of a bitch must pay.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #298 on: 05 Aug 2010, 14:33 »

(thinking it would be 5 again not 50)

Yeah, I dunno, 50 seems like a lot, but then 5 was obviously waaaay too few, particularly if they're going to be using that shit to seed things up for team ladders, since it's entirely possible to get carried out of your league. 2v2 was one of the first things I tried in the beta and I won twice on my own to other guys who clearly had no idea what was going on and got carried the other 3 times. Result? Gold league and so many consecutive curb stompings I just kinda slinked off to 1vs1 rather than keep handicapping whatever poor bastard got stuck with me.
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Re: Starcraft 2
« Reply #299 on: 05 Aug 2010, 15:34 »

Practice league and placement matches are different animals, though. I think you're referring to placement matches.
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