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[Christophe]

Dear Infinite Pony,

I have been out of school for about a month and a half with a BS in Management, and yet I have not made any meaningful inroads into finding a job. I have no working experience, which immediately makes it hard for me to find gainful employment.

There are a few things I could apply for above the retail/foodservice industry, but they very much seem like long shots. At this rate, I will be lucky to get a job at Starbucks or wherever (especially considering that I live in a city with 19.9% unemployment). Long story short, having never held down a job before the whole venture of looking for one is a little daunting to me (at no one's fault but my own), and that I suck at this.

I do have sort of a really, really stupid but nonetheless present apprehension about getting a job, considering that I've never had one, namely that I'm afraid that I'm going to fuck up royally on the first day or somewhere down the line some asshole customer will walk into wherever I work and I'll have a breakdown right then and there.

I do has a specific question other than asking for "how do I not suck at getting a job" --the follow-up call after submitting an application, online or whatever. The whole thing where I ask if they've looked at my application and are currently hiring. The one time I tried this at a supermarket the person who answered the phone told me I'd be better off asking the manager in person, as he didn't take kindly to being asked shit like that on the phone. Is that normal? How many times to try to ask them is in the realm of annoyance?

TL;DR: I suck at getting a job, help me not suck at getting a job?

[KharBevNor]

Sorry mate, welcome to the biggest economic recession since the 30's. Kinda sucks don't it?

[Lines]

The only advice I can give you is don't set your sighs too high. ANY job is better than no job and it will also give you something to put on your resume. It took me...4?...months to find a job after I graduated college, so don't give up! Apply anywhere and everywhere, whether you think you will get it or not.

[tania]

the best thing that works for me when it comes to finding a job you like without much experience is unpaid work. employers love interns and volunteers because they don't have to pay them anything, and a LOT more people hire volunteers and interns than you might think. you, in return, can get all kinds of really cool experience working in the field that may even come easier than for a paid employee because, again, they don't have to pay you anything to train you. i started at the two shelters i volunteer at now as a sort of admin assistant type and now have most of the same training and responsibilities as the case workers there. i know it's not a real paid job, but here's the best part - when you this on your resume, you don't actually have to say that it was unpaid. just put it under "work experience". i got into a really competitive program in vancouver which is going to involve working in the youth justice system a lot based on the fact that i "worked" at two shelters for a year. it's not really lying because technically, you did do the work and it is practical experience, you just didn't get paid for it. i've never had an employer inquire about how much i was paid for the volunteer work that i have listed as a job on my cv and i honestly don't imagine it comes up very often, unless anyone has some stories that prove me wrong here.

[StaedlerMars]

Apply to those jobs anyway. It can't hurt, and if you get an interview it's good practice. Even writing your CV / cover letter a couple of different ways is good practice.

You know what really helps when you want to get a job? Have experience in web programming, dealing with web technology, etc. Flaunt that shit, even if it's very little. The fact that you know how to post on web forums already makes you so much more knowledgeable than the average applicant.

Also, don't give up. A month and a half isn't that long to be searching for a job. My flatmate has been searching for a year, but the reason why he doesn't have a job (I'm almost certain) is because I think he's applied to at most seven jobs in total. Just continue applying.

Do as much talking in person as possible. I would first send an e-mail, and gage by how long they take to respond whether they're an Internet person or not.

Edit: also, it's summer, try applying to jobs at festivals. They usually don't require any work experience, sometimes they're paid, you get to see music for free, and its padding for a resume. They're also usually over the weekend, meaning you can do other stuff, and only last one weekend. (I'm working at T in the Park this year, which will end up paying me 150 pounds which isn't stellar, but I plan on writing it down as 'bar experience', and I also get to see a couple of good bands)

[Yayniall]

I applied to work for the BBC, had to do a hilarious online test.
With the helluvamuchness of jobs just sprung up thing's look alright for this homeboy.
If that fails I'm either gonna do a Masters in Operational Research or a PGCE.
My future's so bright I gotta wear shades.
I hope.

[BrittanyMarie]

i agree with tania, though to be honest the fact that it is volunteer work is seen as a huge asset in the jobs i've had. you're doing good work for no pay, so imagine how good of work you'll do when you are getting paid!

but i haven't had to work very hard for a job because i live in north dakota and we have lots of jobs. my work is hiring, we get to tell bankers what to do!

[Allybee]

how I got a job this summer with little/no real work experience: fucking carpet bomb with your resume. craigslist and newspaper classified ads. don't get mixed up when sending out emails/inquiries (take time!) but send out as many as possible.

[Blue Kitty]

I've never been good with job hunting.  For the 4 jobs I've had there are about 50 jobs I've never heard from after sending them my resume/finishing an application.

[Spluff]

actually my resume is just so good that the employment officers decide that to waste me on any of the mediocre jobs I apply for would be doing the world a gross misjustice

[Slick]

Apply lots, don't be afraid to end up in a mediocre job for a little while.

Look around for job fairs, they are good things that will probably deal with your industry/field and people will be looking for people right away.

Also, yeah, the callback. Going back in person is useful but can be pestering but it is often a better way. I followed up on a lot of jobs on this silly fucking island and it gets really fucking depressing really fucking fast when you walk out of six places in a row doing follow-ups where people say the position has been filled or they aren't looking anymore.
Job hunting is depressing.
Expect to be unhappy.
This is life.
You will feel much better when you finally find a job and it'll be OK.

[tania]

also, like everyone said, apply EVERYWHERE. never, ever assume that you'll hear a callback because you applied to a place that was hiring. other people have seen that they are hiring too and they might be a lot more qualified than you. you can assume you might hear a callback once you have applied to at least 50 places. i have never had too much trouble finding mediocre jobs only because, like ally, whenever i am looking i fucking smother the entire town and every employment website in resumes every single day until i get an interview. it's a bit harder to not find a job when literally every single employer within a 50km radius of you has a copy of your resume.

also, keep in mind that april-june is the toughest time for new graduates to find work because, obviously, that's when everybody's graduated and is now looking for work. you are up against a LOT of people right now. just keep trying, and in a couple of months you might find that the competition dies down a little bit.

[J-cob9000]

Here is a question: I'm looking for a summer job and have been told by two places that they don't take applications but to bring them a resume and they'll consider me.
I understand what a resume is but as a junior in high school, how does one right a resume? Seeing as I've never held a job, what would I put on it?

[Lines]

I second (third?) what people said about volunteering. People like hiring people who have volunteered and also it gives you something to do while you're waiting for a job. You may be lucky enough to find something that is also related to what you want to do jobwise. Otherwise, just pick something that interests you. And if you can find an internship, that is even better.

[Blue Kitty]

Another thing to do?  Ask your friends.  They probably have jobs somewhere and there may even be openings.  Ask them to look into them, see what is needed, and maybe even put in a good weird for you.  It's how I got my cousin a job and how my girlfriend got me a job.

[Alex C]

Hell, ask people who are just acquaintances rather than close friends too. Weirdly enough, I've read theories that say it's the people who you -aren't- particularly close friends with that are most likely to point you in the right direction. It's actually rather elegant and obvious when you think about it: people who aren't part of your own close social network run largely in different circles than you do, and thus they hear about opportunities you don't and vice versa. Pick their brains and good things might happen.

[jhocking]

I've never been good with job hunting.  For the 4 jobs I've had there are about 50 jobs I've never heard from after sending them my resume/finishing an application.

This is not an indication of sucking at job hunting. This is normal and how the process works.

That may be the problem right there, if you think that not getting a call after every resume submission means you suck at job hunting. The person who sucks at job hunting is the one who gives up after sending out two resumes.

[HiFranc]

Do what you can to keep your spirits up and take heart from your success.  I've got an interview this week.  Whether or not I get the job (which I hope I do), I've already achieved something by getting an interview.  If you give in to depression and hopelessness you won't bother getting up in the morning.

Also, could you enroll on a vocational course?  It shows that you're willing to make the effort, it shows that you're not just sitting at home and it would probably enhance/demonstrate you have the skills for the jobs you are applying for.

Don't be afraid of following up crazy ideas: I was unemployed for a while after I graduated.  At that time I had not bought a flat so I was fully mobile.  I reasoned that I was helpful and I had been on so many interviews that I was getting to know the rail network pretty well, so I phoned up National Rail Enquiries and asked if they had a job.  A few phone calls later I was invited for interview and got a job.

{edit}I can't comment on American universities/colleges but, in Britain, the Careers Advisory Service attached to an educational institution normally gives help and vice to people for a few months after they graduate.  They can give you advice on constructing a CV[1], applying for jobs, etc.

Ps.
I just had a thought, if you're planning to stay in the same town you're studying in, are there any jobs going at your place of study?

[1] Or resume

[tania]

i've always found getting an interview a lot harder than actually getting the job once you have an interview. getting an employer to actually notice your resume and call you in for an interview is one of the most painfully nerve-wracking things ever. once i get an interview i always relax immensely because if you're called in for an interview, it means you have all the qualifications for the position and they want to hire you, and all the employer is really looking for you to do is confirm that you can do the job. if you give all the right answers and do all the right things, i've never found it too difficult to pass an interview. there's only been a few times i haven't been hired after an interview and that tended to be only when i really fucked up on certain answers or was just up against too many people.

[E. Spaceman]

No, when i first looked for jobs I applied to a company and within 3 hours they had called me to schedule my interview and in another 2 I was hired.

Of course, this means that I do not actually know how to apply for a job and since that job was pretty great paying I now have issues because when I left most places hiring seemed underpaying and menial.

[Blue Kitty]

What's funny is that most of the jobs I've applied for have hired me right away.  My first job I got a call to come in on Thursday for an interview, then half an hour later they told me I had the job and should come in on Friday.

[scarred]

Yeah friends putting in a good word for you helps bunches, and persistence is also key. when i got my interview at world market i had been calling them every few days for about a week and a half, and when i got there they'd lost my application. but they just had me fill out another and i got the job anyway.

[jhocking]

Of course, this means that I do not actually know how to apply for a job and since that job was pretty great paying I now have issues because when I left most places hiring seemed underpaying and menial.

That is the awkward flip-side of landing a great freelance gig. It'll be over in a few weeks, and now it'll be harder to land the next gig because my standards have been raised.

[onewheelwizzard]

My best advice is to hang out around universities.  There is almost always a menial temp research-assistant position around somewhere that doesn't require any special skills and pays surprisingly well for the amount of work involved, and once you're in the network of academically-oriented day workers, you can usually find another job like it if you need to, there's always another research project that needs people to make it happen.  Also, if all else fails, you can get money by participating in the studies.

[Zingoleb]

I've been applying to places since January. Just started getting interviews last week.

Really hope I get the preschool job.

[Blue Kitty]

With the college thing, many colleges have sites that local business' use to post job openings.  It's actually how I got two of my jobs.

[Emaline]

In the mean time of being unemployed, do what Tania says and do some volunteer work! It looks awesome on your resume. When I have "Helped raise over $10,000 for The Wishlist Foundation" I always get interviews, and people love talking about it, and the founder is one of my references and she thinks I am awesome. So its a pretty good win win.

[A Wet Helmet]

Generally speaking, I really suck at job hunting.   I have a very wide range of disciplines in my background which makes me an absolute specialist in nothing.    Though it really is very often a benefit to be able to speak with some degree of authority on a wide range of subjects in practice, it translates horribly to a resume. Especially when those disciplines are not necessarily obviously related.

Did I mention that my resume looks like ass?  HR folks don't look for dabblers as a rule. 

About an hour ago though a recruiter called me saying "Oh my God, I've been looking for you forever!"   ...And this is how I always end up with jobs.  Someone needs to fill three or four half-time slots with one body and needs a generalist like me.  For the last half dozen years somebody calls me and makes me an offer, I help them out for awhile, then somebody else calls.   I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because it's definitely time to GTFO from under my current employer. 

I'm so glad I'm not searching.   Every time I search I get really frustrated and discouraged. 

[Jimmy the Squid]

While I already have a job I'm looking for something in retail because quite frankly I like it and I figure if I want to open my own shop one day the bank will look at me better if I can show that I've been a manager of a store for a while (typically I've made assistant manager within a year of all my retail jobs because it's really piss easy work if you're halfway intelligent and put effort in). That said, I've been looking for work since January and I still haven't found anything. I can't get a job in the only places that are hiring (all high end fashion and lingerie stores) and since I haven't been in retail for 3 years I effectively have no retail experience because HR fucks (sorry, if you're in HR you're basically a terrible human being at least between the hours of 9am and 5pm) won't look at anything that isn't recent despite the fact that my resume is fucking awesome. I honestly rue the day I got a job in a call centre as it's basically fucked my chances of getting back into retail at least until Christmas. Everything now is only hiring for managers or assistant managers at best and I'm just not qualified for anything and everything I apply for I either never hear back from or I'm told (at the shop) that they do not want my resume, please leave if you're not buying anything.

Fuck job hunting.

[Rizzo]

I spent about 4 hours revamping my CV using this tool; https://www2.careers.govt.nz/cv_4_me.html?&no_cache=1
It's an NZ one but I think it's pretty global in terms of relevance etc. Once I'd done that I got 3 interviews for 4 applications.
I reckon having a dynamite CV is the most important thing after your actual skills.

Also totally agree with the previous posters re: volunteer work. Looks amazing on CVs and shows you're not a total cunt and will work hard regardless of pay.

And to disagree with previous posters, don't accept the first job you're offered unless its actually a good deal. If you've applied at Subway and your local university (or whatever) and Subway calls up to offer you the job, spend a few days thinking about it and calling the university. Cause it's totally ok to call places and say someone else has made an offer. People often say this is bad form but frankly, fuck them, jobs are there to provide you with money not vice versa. Unless you're in the states. Then you're fucked and should take anything that is offered. But if you're in Canada or anywhere else be picky.

Post your CV here and people will most likely offer constructive criticism.

ALSO. Make sure you have an awesome cover letter.

[Elizzybeth]

Dittoing Rizzo's last point.  I've gotten jobs based solely on the strength of my cover letter (i.e. my boss has said, "We don't usually hire X kind of people [my age, my experience, whatever], but your cover letter was so good...").

[Lunchbox]

I've had that too! I tend to make my cover letters a bit personal, with some lame jokes thrown in. One place told me at the interview that it was my cover letter that got me there. I don't think I got that job, though.

[Emaline]

I don't have a cover letter for my resume. I really need to come up with one because I'm gonna apply at some super fancy bakeries soon. I have no idea what to put in it though.

[Blue Kitty]

Only once have I had to use a cover letter, which was all kinds of awkward for me to make.


That reminds me, I need to remake my resume

[HiFranc]

I don't have a cover letter for my resume. I really need to come up with one because I'm gonna apply at some super fancy bakeries soon. I have no idea what to put in it though.

If they're anything like the ones here, then you highlight bits of your CV/resume that are suitable for the job, expand on your experience and mention things not in your CV that would help.

I don't know your experience but I can imagine a person applying to a bakery writing something like:

I have worked at Morestone's Bakery for 5 years.  I was promoted to Senior Baker in my first year and I won "Baker of the Year" for the Timbuktu branch 3 times.

blah...blah...

My team working skills are shown by...

{edit}
You have to cover everything mentioned in the Person Specification and all the implied/common points (e.g. being reliable, committed, etc).

[Elizzybeth]

Exactly.  In your cover letter, you tell them in succinct, plain language why you'd be perfect for the position (which is why you need a different cover letter for every position you apply for)--and how experience you have that doesn't seem related actually is.  For example, if you've done a bunch of retail and you're applying for a bakery, you might explain how you think your customer service skills and multitasking abilities will transfer over into the bakery arena.

I usually start with 2-3 sentences explaining why I want the job and then 2-4 paragraphs expanding on my resume and telling them why they want me.

[ViolentDove]

bakery arena.

Would watch this reality television show!

re: Job Hunting.

I think everyone has said everything, but yeah.

1) Do an internship. This gets you experience, contacts and references in the field you want to get into.

2) Make your CV look awesome. Look these things up if you don't know how to do them. When I was in science I actually borrowed a library book on "technical resumes" so I could spruce up my CV in a format that was technically orientated.

3) Make your cover letter awesome. Find out the name of the person it's going to by calling the company, and put it in the letter/email. Find out things about the company, look them up and work out what they do. Address the job criteria in the cover letter, but keep it succinct, never go over a single page.

[Drill King]

ITT: Andy has 3 dollars to her name and not a cent more unless she magically finds them on the ground.


Man, no jobs want cover letters or etc unless it's a job where it requires a degree and it's, y'know, a 'career job'. At least here, if your resume is longer than a page they usually through it out unless you have something incredible on the first page.

[tania]

not always true! i've sent in a lot of cover letters for jobs i have applied for because they specifically requested them. usually it is just online job postings though, i would probably never include a cover letter with any job i applied for in person since these tend to include application forms and the resume is just supplementary. a two page resume is also a really good idea (again, over here at least) if you have a lot of relevant experience you want to include, otherwise you end up having to mash everything together on the first page and a resume that is clear and concise with a lot of white space tends to be easier to read and understand than one where everything is squished. again, though, this is just based on my experience applying for jobs.

good luck with the job hunt andy!

[StaedlerMars]

Your CV shouldn't be longer than a page for most 'career jobs' either. They don't want to know everything you've ever done, they want to know what you think is applicable, and why, and they want you to say so in as few words as possible.

My mom used to be in charge of the application process for people wanting to intern at the EU mission in New York, and she said that most CVs over a page long they completely ignored, just because of the sheer volume of applications they'd get.

Also, a good cover letter is also great for small time jobs, it's your chance to tell them a bit about yourself. Make it interesting and not a duplicate of your CV. Your cover letter is usually the difference between an interview and not, most everyone has the same qualifications for working in a coffee shop. One of my favorite things I have heard of as a job application was this example.

[öde]

I can't help my CV being two pages long. I think I need to reformat it just to be a list of things I've done and the skills used in them.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I had my CV re-written by a friend of mine who has a job as a recruitment officer, getting jobs for other people who've just come off of worker's compensation and various rehab programs. It didn't look that much different from the one I already had to be honest. But I'm going to try it out and see how it goes. I'm in the middle of applying for a job as a travel agent. I keep getting distracted because it's such a boring application and I don't know if I can be bothered to do it right now. Maybe I'll finish it tomorrow.

[Christophe]

So it's been like what, a little more than a week since I started this thread, and you guys have put a lot of awesome info on this.

My situation right now is that I sort of have two things all up ons right now: one being assistant to the sound guy (or assistant sound guy) at the local bar. 99% likely it's not a paid gig, hell I don't think the regular sound guys get paid, but it'll be experience working with something I'd love to be doing. I start tonight with the open mic night; probably won't be too extensive but at least it'll show me what's goin' on.

The other thing is that two professors from my alma mater are opening up a bookstore. I caught up with one of them last week, talked to them about if they'd need an extra hand, and it seemed like he thinks I'd be a good fit. I sent him my resume a day later, and I sent a message yesterday asking if they've gotten the keys to the space yet to start working in it and if he managed to get a look at my resume. Assuming I don't run into them downtown within this week (which considering the size of this town I probably will), that's pretty sufficient contact, right?

[jhocking]

Your CV shouldn't be longer than a page for most 'career jobs' either. They don't want to know everything you've ever done, they want to know what you think is applicable, and why, and they want you to say so in as few words as possible.

My mom used to be in charge of the application process for people wanting to intern at the EU mission in New York, and she said that most CVs over a page long they completely ignored, just because of the sheer volume of applications they'd get.

The one-page rule is pretty iron-clad for internships or your first job out of college, because someone just out of college will have so little experience that if their resume is longer than a page then they have definitely padded it out with irrelevant fluff (eg. unless you were the financial officer and you're applying for a job as an accountant, nobody cares what clubs you were in.) Once you have a lot of relevant work experience to list out then you can go onto a second page, but even then be really ruthless about culling out irrelevant information.

I've had arguments with people about whether to list every summer job you've ever had, but I definitely fall on the side of "when in doubt, cut it out."

I can't help my CV being two pages long. I think I need to reformat it just to be a list of things I've done and the skills used in them.

I work freelance so my resume fills up fast with a lot of small jobs, but even then I was able to restructure it a lot to be more relevant to recruiters. For starters, I lopped off everything older than 4 years (a LOT of small jobs) and used that room to expand a bit on more recent experience.

[tania]

another way to shrink your cv: if you have a lot of experience that you feel is relevant but it's varied, try making specific resumes for certain jobs. i've had a lot of jobs and volunteer positions in different fields so i give a different resume depending on if i'm applying for a service industry job or a social services sector job, with each resume tailored to highlight the skills and experience i have that would make me suited for that job. it's a lot easier to get rid of jobs and trim your resume this way, although be careful about leaving funny looking unemployment gaps in your history when you do this as employers may question why you seemingly didn't have a job for that period of time.

[De_El]

I thought I was terrible at job searching, but I just got a job! Well not just, it was last week, but I haven't started yet so it's still fresh to me.  It's pretty informal; I just pestered the owner at a local coffee shop a few times until he decided to give me the job. It wasn't like I just walked in and got hired; it's was somewhat competitive to get because it's both a good cafe and a major student hang-out spot.  But I guess most of the other applicants just dropped off their resume and waited for a call, whereas I went back repeatedly to check in on the job. It's great because I know my customer service experience helped me get it, but I've never worked in food service before, and now that I've got this job I'll have experience that'll keep helping me for a long time to come.

[HiFranc]

Congratulations DL.

[negative creep]

Yesterday I sent out 10 applications. Today someone called me and now I have to go to an interview tomorrow. Sounds good?

The problem is, none of those applications were serious. I don't want any of those jobs. I tried as hard as I could (without it being to obvious; I have to show copies of my applications to the long arm of the government) to make myself look unemployable. I didn't even put my phone number on my CV, so they had to search for it in the phone book That can only mean that they must be really desperate.

[KvP]

I am trying to get a work study job at the community college i'm attending in the Spring. I have no clue how to go about this, since I am not taking courses yet. I'm already registered with the school though...hm. I desire a job that is Homework Time, this'd be that. Also want to meet some cool ladies, and the community college in question of full of punk+artsy girls. Dream job???

Lab tech in the arts department. Best job I have ever had and probably ever will have. Try and trump up any experience you have with IT stuff, even if it's building your own computer or replacing a video card or anything like that. You won't actually be using those skills - more than likely they'll have full-time IT bros handling all that stuff - but it looks good anyway. KNOW HOW TO USE MICROSOFT OFFICE. Word + Excel + Powerpoint + Access. Knowledge of music or design software is also a big plus. But overall they're not going to look for dynamos, they're going to look for people who have a clear capacity to learn the programs that students will be asking about.

I'm coming up on graduation and I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do. Best case scenario right now is to get a job at Best Buy or some shit in the Geek Squad (by the time I graduate I will have had 3 years of lab tech experience, including 2 years of fairly rigorous client-side IT, and a year of security IT) but I'm not sure what the odds are of that happening. Even if they're hiring I'd probably have to go up against a whole boatload of CIS grads who can't get jobs in the real industry. And then I'd be doing volunteer stuff for awhile, and then maybe I'd go back to school, either for grad stuff or for management.

[Patrick]

Yeah it's pretty great I love not having a job and having rent to pay