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[Ozymandias]

What is uuuuup

* Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
* Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
* Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
* Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
* Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

[ackblom12]

unf unf

[Scandanavian War Machine]

I never actually finished the first one before trading it in.

I really liked it for a while, but after starting 4 or 5 different characters, getting them through almost the entire story (two of which actually made it to the final battle), I just lost interest and gave up. Also, the combat started to piss me off.


That said, I'll probably still play the fuck out of this.

[Buttfranklin]

Yessssss!

Since you're only going to be playing as one character (Hawke) (which is a dumb name) will your lines be voice acted now?

[Storm Rider]

It's not clear, but it sounds like Bioware might be ditching the Origin concept entirely for the sequel, instead giving you a male/female character with a fixed background like Mass Effect. Like Buttfranklin said, if they're making this choice it's probably so that they can feasibly give the main character voice acting rather than deal with the prospect of having to record the ridiculous number of race-gender possibilities in the first game. I'm a little torn about this. On the one hand, they're taking out an element of character customization and that kind of sucks. On the other, the origins didn't really affect all that much, unless you played an elf and defined your character around hating humans and choosing every dialogue choice to that end, and having static dialogue trees with no voice acting for the protagonist felt really antiquated to me after Mass Effect. I'm sure it would feel even worse for the sequel after ME2 and Alpha Protocol.

That being said, we still know next to nothing about this game from that reveal. Maybe when scans from the GI article hit they'll have more substantive information.

[mberan42]

unf unf

[KvP]

It's funny how things change - back in Planescape: Torment day, having a fixed PC identity was considered risky. Nowadays extensive character choice is for MMOs.

The long-term effect of games having full VA, of games being interactive films, is that meaningful choice / consequence design becomes much more expensive to implement. Not impossible to implement by any means (Alpha Protocol and the Witcher both had full VA) but riskier to attempt, and a harder sell. But C&C has long been the weakest aspect of Bioware's design philosophy.

[kemon]

well, if they fixed all the stuff wrong with the first game, then this one will be cool.

[FIXDIX]

Man, Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons is a waaaaaaay better title than what I had. Dragon Effect: Mass Dragoning With A Reckoning 2.

[JD]

fight like a Spartan

but I don't wanna fight in leather undies

[Alex C]

Hopefully they just mean beating the piss out of people with your shield like Alistair.

[Buttfranklin]

Man, Dragon Age 2: Fuckin' Bitches, Stabbin' Dragons is a waaaaaaay better title than what I had. Dragon Effect: Mass Dragoning With A Reckoning 2.

Wherein it is revealed that Archdemons are

REAPERS!!

[JD]

I could think of worse crossovers.

[Buttfranklin]

EA announced new DLC for Dragon Age 2!!  You uncover the ruins of the SSV Normandy and find the cryo-frozen body of no other than COMMANDER SHEPARD!!  using his universal translator, but alas missing his weapons and armor, he will keep any snotty elves from making disingenuous assertions about you and your friends!  Commander Shepard's gender is always the opposite of the gender of your character so you can pursue a romance with the slick space savior.  He saved the Citadel from the Geth...  Now he'll save Fereldan from the Blight!

[est]

That page infuriates me.  They don't have a trailer yet, they have some really vague explanations of what the game is gonna be about (that sounds like basically every RPG ever) and yet they already have the pre-orders up.

Like, I want this to be good, but I'm not just gonna order it on fucking spec.

[KvP]

Alpha screens. At least, I really hope they're alpha screens.





The more I hear about the game the less inspired I get, mainly because it seems like they've abandoned the promise of DA:O and are going in an entirely different direction. Pretty much everything that was halfway interesting in DA:O received a poor reception from fans (which isn't to say they should have liked those things - the origins, for example, were largely bland and half-assed, and the writing was fairly rote), so they look to be abandoning their attempt to incorporate their strategic RPG past with their new cinematic aspirations, and instead are going into full-on ARPG mode. It may turn out well (I'll certainly play through it at least once) but it's somewhat saddening that Bioware has officially let go of the Infinity template. I wasn't the biggest fan of DA:O but I think it could have done better with a sequel in the same vein.

I'm going back through DA:O as a city elf fighter, aside from the Bioware Signature Series drama rape which irritated me some, it's more and more apparent that they need to get away from the unibody system with DA2 - all humanoids in DA:O, be they Darkspawn, elves, dwarves or humans, used the same set of animations for all actions. After awhile it really shows. I don't know if Bioware has the resources of Blizzard, but one of the nice things about WoW is that there are unique animations for all classes, or so I'm told.

[Ozymandias]

Frankly, the impression I'm getting from this is that it's Fable, but not by Molyneux.

Which is a concept I can get behind so much I'm practically fucking it in the ass.

[Alex C]

Fable games are shit aside from a bit of mildly amusing atmospherics. I shouldn't have to like a game despite the mechanics. Example: Jade Empire.

[Ozymandias]

Right.

That's where the "not by Molyneux" part comes in.

[Alex C]

Eh, see, I'd hold that Molyneaux's people insisting upon a whole mess of stupid shit being added onto an otherwise completely generic ARPG is what separates it from other ARPGs. Since you know, ARPGs are almost uniformly shit.

And to be honest, up until MA2, I'd hold that Bioware is just as good (read: bad) at actual gameplay mechanics as Lionhead.

[KvP]

A couple of tangential links, first SA doesn't take kindly to internets not taking kindly to whatever minimal reveal the DA2 announcement was, and on the other hand, the co-founder of the Escapist on how the gaming industry is now the movie industry.

[Ozymandias]

More details

Sounds like A) they're sort of snagging Alpha Protocol's conversation system and mixing it into ME2's, B) the PC and console versions are going to be even more different from each other than DA:O with the PC version retaining its Baldur's Gate roots, and the console ones moving toward ARPGs, and C) the narrative might actually be a deeply personal story to Hawke and not really a massive epic like DA:O.

Also,

Eh, see, I'd hold that Molyneaux's people insisting upon a whole mess of stupid shit being added onto an otherwise completely generic ARPG is what separates it from other ARPGs. Since you know, ARPGs are almost uniformly shit.

And to be honest, up until MA2, I'd hold that Bioware is just as good (read: bad) at actual gameplay mechanics as Lionhead.

At this point, I'd hold that I'm not really sure I have anything more to discuss with you since we apparently have such widely divergent opinions that I can't ever seeing myself even coming close to agreeing with you.

[Ikrik]

For me, playing the first Dragon Age was really saddening.  It felt like I was playing a 6 year old game that had a slight graphical upgrade.  I'm not entirely sold yet on all these new features and changes I'm not sold on tons of changes as opposed to improvements. 

There are definite things I want them to improve with the sequel, some of which they've talked about and some I was kind of hoping for.

I love the idea of a name and I think it's insanely important for the character to talk and to improve the dialogue options, I hated reading my whole response and would much rather choose the kind of response than to read it all out and then choose.  Giving a voice to my character is possibly one of the greatest improvements they could make to the game.

New art style is really iffy for me, I really really liked the realism of the first game and I would have preferred better art direction, more varied environments, and better graphics than a new "cartoony" art style. 

Gameplay refinements for consoles would be quite awesome, never really dug how it played for me.  And I seriously think the BIGGEST improvement they could make to this game would be to make each party member unique as opposed to just having specialties.  2 Mages, 2 Rogues, 400 Warriors?  Give me a reason to choose certain characters like giving them all unique skills as well as having moral standards.  I really hated how the first game was just like playing a single player MMO.

[David_Dovey]

A couple of tangential links, first SA doesn't take kindly to internets not taking kindly to whatever minimal reveal the DA2 announcement was, and on the other hand, the co-founder of the Escapist on how the gaming industry is now the movie industry.

Both links go to the SA article doggo

[KvP]

fxd

[Johnny C]

the co-founder of the Escapist on how the gaming industry is now the movie industry.

you forgot the crucial part where it's the movie industry as opposed to the music or book industry and leaves out crucial information, like say the entire way each industry works and also that the movie industry works at putting out niche titles on the regular too (viz. Fox Searchlight) and how basically all of this article is wrong whenever it makes an analogy which sucks because it has salient points w/r/t expanding budgets and publisher expectations and reception within culture

[Alex C]

At this point, I'd hold that I'm not really sure I have anything more to discuss with you since we apparently have such widely divergent opinions that I can't ever seeing myself even coming close to agreeing with you.

In my defense, I meant to type "Action gameplay mechanics." I think Bioware did fine with Baldur's Gate and such. I just thought Jade Empire and Mass Effect 1 showed that they weren't quite there when it came to action games.

[snalin]

So, it sounds like DA2 for PC is going to use the same, great control scheme as all of Bioware's RPGs, which is... well, great, but not very intuitive. The PS3 and 360 versions are going to be more action oriented though, so I guess they're going with the idea that pc-gamers are nerds who like to strategize, while console gamers wants to see gore without having to think much to do that. I like that they say that the console version is tailored for the strengths of the PS3 and the 360 - isn't the problem really that it's pretty cumbersome to get around the advanced combat menus on a PS3/360-controller? It'll be interesting to see if they will approach strategic group fighting in a different way altogether, or just cut some of the strategy out of it. It could be interesting to see something like the kind of party control from the great promo movie for the first game - tell your goons what you want done, and they'll do it, without you having to directly order them around.

"Intense action" sounds fun if it can be combined with "intense strategy", because without that, DA2 will just be a Dungeon Siege copy with rpg-storytelling, and we donæt really need that with DS3 coming out soon.

[Storm Rider]

A couple of tangential links, first SA doesn't take kindly to internets not taking kindly to whatever minimal reveal the DA2 announcement was, and on the other hand, the co-founder of the Escapist on how the gaming industry is now the movie industry.

To be fair, that SA article is a completely accurate skewering of how the message board culture turns even the slightest bit of information into a melodramatic catastrophe. I actually stopped reading the SA thread on DA2 after the first 3 pages because it read almost exactly like that article, only they weren't being sarcastic. People actually used the phrases 'Dragon Effect' and 'when will they talk about a cover system'. It was fucking absurd. The SA forums are better than the vast majority of video game-based forums but I still generally stick to threads for console games because there's a contingent of the archetypal bitter, self-important PC gamers who are completely intolerable.

[Ozymandias]

"Intense action" sounds fun if it can be combined with "intense strategy", because without that, DA2 will just be a Dungeon Siege copy with rpg-storytelling, and we donæt really need that with DS3 coming out soon.

Well considering it's being made by the brilliant programming and gameplay design teams of Obsidian we probably do need that. (heyoooo)

[KvP]

A couple of tangential links, first SA doesn't take kindly to internets not taking kindly to whatever minimal reveal the DA2 announcement was, and on the other hand, the co-founder of the Escapist on how the gaming industry is now the movie industry.

To be fair, that SA article is a completely accurate skewering of how the message board culture turns even the slightest bit of information into a melodramatic catastrophe. I actually stopped reading the SA thread on DA2 after the first 3 pages because it read almost exactly like that article, only they weren't being sarcastic. People actually used the phrases 'Dragon Effect' and 'when will they talk about a cover system'. It was fucking absurd. The SA forums are better than the vast majority of video game-based forums but I still generally stick to threads for console games because there's a contingent of the archetypal bitter, self-important PC gamers who are completely intolerable.

Oh you don't have to tell me, I'm a member of the Obsidian forums, which are basically the same 4 or 5 thread templates repeated over and over and over (DRM will kill us all / Bethsoft's Fallout Sucks For These Reasons / Make another KOTOR plz / Bioware is the Best Ever [alternatively Bioware is the Worst Ever] / Japan boo, Eastern Europe yay).

All that having been said, I think there are legitimate gripes to be had with Bioware's design philosophies, and I've repeated those to the point where I don't really need to anymore.

[Ozymandias]

C) the narrative might actually be a deeply personal story to Hawke and not really a massive epic like DA:O.

The more I think medium hard about this point the more I hope it's true because that would make this the Odyssey to DA:O's Iliad and that is a concept I can shake hands with.

[Johnny C]

it better be true because otherwise they're just going to redo da:o but with voice acting and people saying your character's name

[Alex C]

I would love a smaller scale story to death. I'm not really that terribly interested in Helm's Deep: The Game, to be honest, and even if I were, making a game that can approach the kinda visual standard required to really make such a thing suitably impressive is an uphill battle. Not really trying to hate on the betrayal at Ostagar there or anything, but when you have cinematic aspirations you're going to have to face up to the fact that your audience is going to make cinematic comparisons, consciously or not. Anyway, I'd say I love Bioware games best for the li'l things, not the saving the world stuff. Shit, I can barely even remember what Irenicus's big ol' plan was in BGII, and I played the hell out of that game. He wanted to get into the elf pantheon, right? Whatever. Fucker took my party members, so he was gonna die regardless. Honestly, with enough writing the DA:O team could have got me to sign off on a "Let's just murder the shit out of Arl Howe" or "Catch the Blood Mage who was also your friend," plot line if they had wanted to and promised me more good dialog and less big cutscenes. I'm that easy.

[est]

I really liked the first one, so I am intentionally trying not to read anything more about it until there is actually some meaty info online, because I'd rather not read dribs and drabs and form an expectation (as I stupidly do sometimes) then have it be not at all like I imagined.  I am tentatively enthused, though.

[Josefbugman]

I must admit, I rapidly became bored with DA:O, don't get me wrong I loved the setting and liked a lot of the characters and choices, but the combat was so indefensibly bad, especially on console that I wanted to put my head through a wall. That and the fact that some of the characters got on my nerves, and that sometimes the talking just went on for way too long. That and the fact that it was so easy to accidently bugger yourself through making the wrong sort of party/PC choices.

[KvP]

I really liked the first one, so I am intentionally trying not to read anything more about it until there is actually some meaty info online, because I'd rather not read dribs and drabs and form an expectation (as I stupidly do sometimes) then have it be not at all like I imagined.  I am tentatively enthused, though.

I'll put $20 on DA2 being about saving the world from something.

[Alex C]

Don't piss on my dreams. 

[Johnny C]

i bet it will be, but while me2 was about THE COLLECTOR THREAT, it was really about a bunch of people and their personal problems, and that made the game way more interesting, and made the actual plot more compelling by 1) depicting the threatened worlds as places inhabited by people who were part of a massive network of intricately connected cultures, 2) establishing the people going on a "suicide mission" as more than just redshirts. bioware's capable of doing small-scale stories wrapped inside big overarching things, but the question is if they'll be able to make both compelling simultaneously. they haven't really managed to yet.

[KvP]

I think BG2 was pretty good with it, actually. The core campaign was about saving the Player Character, the expansion / finale was about the fate of the world.

[KvP]

Aakduce, a fan of Greywardens.com (and Dragon Age, of course), was lucky enough to hang out at the San Diego Comic Con the other day. Even better — he had the chance to hang out with BioWare’s Evil Chris Priestly and Mike Laidlaw. Evil Chris, as you may know, is the social voice of all things BioWare, and by extension, Dragon Age; and Mike Laidlaw is the lead designer behind the epic-ness that is the story of Dragon Age 2. Check out Aakduce’s thoughts on the Dragon Age 2 preview — and some of the answers he received when questioning the dynamic duo — below.

“When I got in, Mike was giving a speech about how they were ‘keeping what worked well’ in Dragon Age: Origins — and scrapping the rest. He also outlined the highlights of the game (most of which are already known):
• Story takes place over 10 years
• Hawke (male or female) and family escaped from Lothering just before it was burned to the ground by darkspawn
• Combat is more fast-paced and bloody — BioWare is going for the “300″ Spartan warrior feel here
• You can still use a “Pause and Play” gaming style for strategy
• Casters get dynamic finishers now, like the slow motion kills of warriors in Dragon Age: Origins
• Hawke is fully voice-acted

As soon as I got the chance, I played the demo! Here’s what I discovered:

The story is told by two different narrators who tend to embellish how powerful you really are, and the intro filled out the story of Ostagar (in the same stained glass fashion of DA:O). The game definitely played a bit more like Mass Effect 2, what with the voice acting, as well as in the general gameplay. At one point, I was offered the chance to utterly destroy mobs of darkspawn that were coming at me, or have the mage that was with me (Bethany, I think her name was) blast them. Mage spells in the demo were crushing prison and mind blast — which worked to marvelous effect, of course. The spellbook worked well, but, at least in the demo, there were no tooltips. When I reached the end of the preview, just as it was obvious everyone was going to die, a dragon came out of nowhere and, graciously, killed all of the darkspawn. The dragon then morphed into a familiar old lady with long grey hair — guess who, anyone?

I also had the chance to play a new DLC that is coming out soon. I didn’t get the name, but it was one of the hardest dungeons I have ever played, even on easy — at least in the pre-build that I was playing, anyway. In my chat with Chris Priestly, he told me that BioWare is going to keep making downloadable content for Dragon Age: Origins, and that they are planning to keep the DA:O franchise going for as long as they can — so the changes in Dragon Age 2 aren’t necessarily the end for more traditional roleplayers. There is also likely to be a third full Dragon Age game — and Chris told me that they are not yet done with Morrigan’s story.

I asked Chris about some of the feedback from people who feel that Dragon Age 2 isn’t a real RPG. He said that he felt that players were mostly put off by the fact that they can’t port their character from the first game, and that the only real difference in DA2 over DA:O for roleplayers was that they can’t choose their race. He also mentioned that Dragon Age: Origins only had a timeline of two years, while Dragon Age 2 spans 10 years, and that choosing the path BioWare did with DA2 has given them more ways in which to tell the epic story.

Overall, the game had a great look and feel. I was impressed — and I can’t wait to play it!”

Thanks again to Aakduce for sending in some impressions from Comic Con and letting us know what it was like to get your hands on some of the new content.

link

[Buttfranklin]

KvP you should probably put a spoiler warning in front of that blurb.  Definitely a spoiler about shapeshifting dragons which makes Flemeth less of a surprise... Also that she's still alive for us who haven't played it.  At least, the default game world is that she's alive.

Any mention of importing saves from DA:O to DA2?

[KvP]

I'm pretty sure that's off the table. I had heard something along the lines of KOTOR2, in which you are given direct questions about your decisions in the first game, but I don't know how accurate that is.

[est]

I would assume "no", as you're a completely different character.

[KvP]

That doesn't necessarily preclude a savegame transfer. Seeing the consequences of your decisions as one character from the perspective of another ought to be gratifying on some level. That having been said, a canon timeline is the easiest way to go and therefore probably the preferred way.

[est]

Yeah, I guess.  Accommodating for the background of the hero as well as who killed who and suchforth in the first one might get a bit painful.

Also: The hero they showed in most of the trailers etc (human, seemingly warrior, stupid tattoo) looked fucking idiotic and I hope we don't get stuck with something similar.  I imagine they'll do something similar to ME where they give suggested looks for male & female Hawke but allow you to customise?

[est]

On that note, why do most of the tattoos in these games look absolutely dumb?  And if they are going to support tattoos, why can't we import our own designs?  That would be pretty great.

[snalin]

I'm 100% certain that we would, one week later, see a ZP where yatzhee has made a guy with a dick tatooed over his face, and named him "Dickface". But it's a pretty great idea. I didn't know, but it seems like there's a bunch of mods for DA:O (a google check finds a mod manager, so I guess there's some), so it shouldn't be that hard to implement if you put some work into it, or find someone who wants to do it for you.

[LTK]

Are you maybe aware that Fable already did this?

[Johnny C]

dunno about y'all but i'm perfectly comfortable with a game that does at least SOME of the legwork for me w/r/t character design