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Author Topic: Bioshock: Infinite  (Read 35190 times)

ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #100 on: 30 Mar 2013, 23:36 »

So, when you die in 1999 Mode you lose a shit load of money.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #101 on: 31 Mar 2013, 04:39 »

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #102 on: 31 Mar 2013, 04:56 »

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #103 on: 31 Mar 2013, 05:20 »

Derp, fixed.

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There are an infinite number.
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I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #104 on: 31 Mar 2013, 05:24 »

I see what you did there.

*Hands over the mop*

Make sure you get all of it.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #105 on: 31 Mar 2013, 14:21 »

So I'd call this game about a 7.5/10, how 'bout everyone else?

I had a love/hate relationship with the gameplay. The art design and story was probably the best thing I've ever seen.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #106 on: 31 Mar 2013, 15:44 »

One thing, is 1999 mode like a genuine new game mode? Like, you keep all the stuff you've collect and everything? IS there a proper new game mode?
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #107 on: 31 Mar 2013, 16:25 »

what bothers me a bit is that it feels like this game is really hampered by being a first-person-shooter. You can't really expand on the genre that much.

Having said that, seeing as this is in my opinion a truly different first person shooter that isn't a simple firing lane, but actually expects you to think encounters through and plan and use your environment to your advantage, it's a pretty good first person shooter. And gameplay wise, the addition of Elizabeth as your ally during firefights has not been matched by other studios. It has an incredible setting, something that truly sets it apart. The story is without doubt first class.

The only true quarrel I have with this game is that it ends. I can't see myself playing this through again, just as I had trouble playing through Bioshock 1 & 2 twice.

But I can't see how I could give this game a score lesser than 10. In an industry so plagued by rip-offs and mediocre sequels and rehashes, something that stands out so beautifully deserves to be applauded.
(can't beat Tomb Raider though.)

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #108 on: 31 Mar 2013, 16:37 »

One thing, is 1999 mode like a genuine new game mode? Like, you keep all the stuff you've collect and everything? IS there a proper new game mode?
Haha, nope. It's just a new game, but more punishing, and the containers contain much less resources. It's an absolute goddamned travesty, if you ask me.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #109 on: 31 Mar 2013, 16:38 »

So it's just an ultra-hard mode? As someone who just finished it on easy, I'll pass, I think.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #110 on: 31 Mar 2013, 17:00 »

what bothers me a bit is that it feels like this game is really hampered by being a first-person-shooter. You can't really expand on the genre that much.

Having said that, seeing as this is in my opinion a truly different first person shooter that isn't a simple firing lane, but actually expects you to think encounters through and plan and use your environment to your advantage, it's a pretty good first person shooter. And gameplay wise, the addition of Elizabeth as your ally during firefights has not been matched by other studios. It has an incredible setting, something that truly sets it apart. The story is without doubt first class.

The only true quarrel I have with this game is that it ends. I can't see myself playing this through again, just as I had trouble playing through Bioshock 1 & 2 twice.

But I can't see how I could give this game a score lesser than 10. In an industry so plagued by rip-offs and mediocre sequels and rehashes, something that stands out so beautifully deserves to be applauded.
(can't beat Tomb Raider though.)

Because most of the gameplay sucks, only having two weapons is bullshit, and the guns are so strong that using the vigors is basically pointless.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #111 on: 31 Mar 2013, 17:28 »

The only vigors I used were Possession and Force Lightning.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #112 on: 31 Mar 2013, 17:47 »

Which difficulty did you two play on? My guns were DEFINITELY underpowered. Or maybe I just used the wrong ones (Vox MP and Vox Burstgun, mostly. Hated the cannons)

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #113 on: 31 Mar 2013, 17:53 »

I played it on easy. Judge if you must.  I was able to get through the game mostly with the pistol/machine gun. It helped that I upgraded my salts to the maximum (I got enough health from Elizabeth/pickups and the punishment for dying was minimal anyway). Oh, editing to add...how has nobody mentioned the songs being played a good half century or more before they came out? I remember hearing an instrumental version of what sounded like "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" and thought "no, that can't be. No way." And then later I heard another song (I don't remember which one), but then later in the game there was definitely someone sitting on a wall singing "Fortunate Son". So...yeah, that was a nice touch.
« Last Edit: 31 Mar 2013, 18:00 by Method of Madness »
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #114 on: 31 Mar 2013, 18:06 »

Well I tried finishing on hard, but had to switch to medium when
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And yes, I noticed the Girls Just Wanna Have Fun thing, I was like WHAT IN GODS NAME, but it's explained pretty well in the game:
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #115 on: 31 Mar 2013, 18:15 »

I don't recall hearing that, but honestly, I'm disappointed they did explain it. Seems like one of those things that would just be better if they weren't explained.
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snalin

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #116 on: 31 Mar 2013, 19:18 »

It's mentioned here and there. You find the voxophone that goes most into depth about it in a house that's a bit outside the beaten path - you have to, at one point, turn around and look backwards to see the entrance, as far as I remember.

The barbershop quartet early on singing God Only Knows is the best thing, though:

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #117 on: 31 Mar 2013, 19:32 »

Ah! Right, that was the other song! And ahh, I honestly didn't even look and see that, I just heard it and kept going, so I didn't see the sign that had the name of the song with "Albert Fink presents", and I guess I never went into that house so I never got that voxaphone. But yeah, loved it.
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snalin

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #118 on: 31 Mar 2013, 19:45 »

Oh, about the weapons and the vigors... I had a lot of fun with the upgraded crows and a shotgun. Crow someone, shoot them, they become a crow-trap, watch someone walk into it, shoot them, lovely. Other than that, the guns seemed quite okay. I never quite managed to figure out how the hellfire worked, but other than that (and the boring-ass pistol), I kept spinning though the other guns just because I couldn't decide on which to use, which was a cool element.

There were some fun combos you could do - combining the equipment that gave you longer melee range with the one that gave you hitpoints for meelee kills, and suddenly the rather lackluster charge and water...whatever vigors becomes interesting. The return to sender was really cute. Possesion was all over just amazingly good.

Playing at medium, the normal dudes were not really a challenge unless they came in very big numbers, but handymen, those fireslinger-dudes, patriots, and all the other "big" enemies made the fights more difficult. If you could get through on easy with only a pistol and a machine gun, it looks like the easy/medium/hard spectrum is actually working as intended, which is nice.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #119 on: 31 Mar 2013, 20:07 »

Oh yeah, I was definitely not complaining about that, I enjoyed myself and enjoyed the scenery and the story. There was a bit of a challenge, but just enough to make me feel like I'd earned the ending.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #120 on: 31 Mar 2013, 20:33 »

I would definitely need some more context on why vigors are pointless from Gareth. Playing on Normal, I found the special units and particularly large crowds made vigors absolutely necessary in multiple situations. On the harder difficulties, even normal enemies demand regular Vigor usage.
« Last Edit: 31 Mar 2013, 20:56 by ackblom12 »
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Thrillho

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #121 on: 01 Apr 2013, 04:20 »

They just didn't really do anything for me. On Bioshock, I had many different pre-arranged systems for how I used the plasmids. If they were standing in water, I shocked them, otherwise I set them on fire so that they would be constantly taking damage. If I was also standing in the water, I'd use the bugs.

On this one you had shock jock, which was okayish but barely stopped a patriot in its tracks (uh, aren't they robots?), the fire one which worked like a grenade launcher and I hate those, return to sender never seemed to work for me, the crows did no damage they just distracted people which I could never be bothered with (I'm a very offensive player. I was the same in Pokemon, if a move didn't take damage off the opponent I didn't use it).

I used the one that hypnotised them to be on your side quite a lot, although I felt it didn't last long enough.

Also the vigor upgrades cost so much that I saw no reason to bother upgrading them because it flat out costs too much and I do better just shooting the guys.

Also, the Vox guns suck. By the end of the game I was using the hand cannon and the carbine almost exclusively with dabbles of the shotgun.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #122 on: 01 Apr 2013, 04:50 »

Return to Sender was tricky. All the Vigors (as well as some of the weapons) work differently depending on how long you hold the fire button. With Return to Sender, clicking gives you a temporary shield and holding lets you collect projectiles that are being shot at you, which you can throw back at people. It consumes Salts continuously while you're holding it, though, so it's not especially useful as an offensive power, but can save your life when you're being shot at from all directions.

Other Vigors were kind of disappointing, yes. Laying traps was almost completely useless because no one ever got near them. I never had any reason to use Bucking Bronco or Undertow, I wasn't prone to using Murder of Crows either, and Shock Jockey only became really useful once I got the chain shocking upgrade. I really liked Charge though, especially once I upgraded it to recharge my shields. If everyone was shooting at me I'd just charge into the first enemy I saw, which not only got me out of the crossfire but also restored my shields. Win-win. I got really good at zipping around the battlefield, Charging into someone and then shotgunning them, then if they were still standing, do a melee execution that had a chance to restore health. Plus, I also had that gear item which had a chance to Possess enemies when hit by a melee attack, and Charge counts as melee!

I started to feel bad for using executions very soon because Elizabeth got so upset by them. I can almost forgive them for changing everything that was good about the earlier Bioshocks since they did such an amazing job of characterising Elizabeth. This is what multi-million dollar video game budgets should be used for.
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I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #123 on: 01 Apr 2013, 04:54 »

Also, I thought the handymen were a bit OP. You just couldn't fight them. With Big Daddies you eventually could figure out a system, or you got powerful enough that you could just fight them head on, but that just didn't happen with handymen. You just had to keep dying until you wore them down.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #124 on: 01 Apr 2013, 05:06 »

You may be doing it wrong. You need to run. My usual tactic was to shock them repeatedly while shooting half a clip of whatever I was holding, before turning tail and running to a safer place. Possessing an enemy to serve as a distraction works well too.
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I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #125 on: 01 Apr 2013, 05:18 »

How do you execute? I've got a feeling I missed out on that COMPLETELY.

I used a mix of Bucking Bronco and Charge. My charges were pretty powerful, as in one charge and one melee hit usually killed an enemy. I'd use bucking bronco to disable the rest and shoot them in the air, which takes less shots than being on the ground.

Against patriots, I'd use Shock Jockey and Grenades, although at the end I used bucking bronco instead of grenades as well. Shock Jockey really doesn't do much against patriots unless you upgrade its duration, after that, Patriots are pretty easy to deal with.

Against the fire guys I'd use (who guessed it?) the water vigor, because quite frankly, the water vigor pushed them away and disabled them for a short while, which was exactly what you want to do with a fireman.

I still have no idea how to kill a handyman without jumping on the freight rails.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #126 on: 01 Apr 2013, 06:48 »

When regular enemies are low on health, they get a skull icon near their health bar and you can hold V for an especially gory kill. I'm pretty sure that a regular melee hit will kill them just as well at that point, so doing executions is useless until you find some gear that gives you health for doing them.

Did you ever get caught on the skyline when a Handyman was electrocuting them? That was a dick move. I never spent much time on skylines anyway, I preferred to fight on foot. I saw that there's a lock-on option to shoot enemies while on a skyline, but that just feels like cheating.
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I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #127 on: 01 Apr 2013, 06:56 »

Eh, skylines are always good for hit and running, I find. Drop in and pimpslap someone, swap a clip or two with whoever is about, then just back of to restore and revive. Rinse and repeat.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #128 on: 01 Apr 2013, 07:06 »

Yeah, fighting Handymen heads on was never a good idea. Zap 'em and skyline out of there. Tears with turrets and such worked pretty well against them as well, if you managed to trick them into staying in the general area

Did anyone figure out the tesla coils? They were around here and there, but I couldn't get them to do anything special.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #129 on: 01 Apr 2013, 07:14 »

I activated a Tesla Coil in one of the great halls in Emporia, and they basically serve to stun anyone who comes near. I kept hearing one Vox guy screaming as he was being electrocuted, while I was busy dealing with a motorised patriot. I still had to shoot the guy afterwards, so I don't think it did much damage, if any. Not terribly useful, those things.
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I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #130 on: 01 Apr 2013, 07:20 »

oooooh you had to HOLD v!! I was like "WELL I PRESSED V AND NOTHING HAPPENED" all the time!

I got shocked ONCE, never again.

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #131 on: 01 Apr 2013, 07:23 »

Most of the shocking I did was of Elizabeth.

With the brutality of my murders.

Honestly I executed every chance I got.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #132 on: 01 Apr 2013, 07:46 »

oooooh you had to HOLD v!! I was like "WELL I PRESSED V AND NOTHING HAPPENED" all the time!

I got shocked ONCE, never again.
Haha, same. Re: skyline, I had a gear that jumping from a skyline did guaranteed fire area damage, so that was useful against crowds and even helped a good bit on patriots if I struck them directly.
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MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #133 on: 01 Apr 2013, 10:05 »

I excuted as often as possible, because the animations were impossibly brutal. I was laughing with childlike glee as I did them every time.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #134 on: 08 Apr 2013, 14:35 »

So, are people up for doing a bit more critical analysis talk about the game yet? I've got lots of things I wanna discuss, namely in the areas I feel like the game failed, especially in comparison to the original.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #135 on: 08 Apr 2013, 14:37 »

Well...yes and no. I'd be more than happy to discuss the game, but not if it's comparing to the original, since I haven't played that and don't want it spoiled.
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They call me Mr. Madness.

Quote from: Polonius
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MR ARCHIVE-FU MADNESS
Does anybody really know what time it is?
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ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #136 on: 08 Apr 2013, 14:38 »

I don't think in detail comparisons would be needed for most of it and it wouldn't be the majority of the discussion I don't think.
« Last Edit: 08 Apr 2013, 15:03 by ackblom12 »
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snalin

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #137 on: 08 Apr 2013, 15:54 »

I'd be interested.

To start it off, there's a lot of aspects that really cannot be compared. The combat mechanics are apples and oranges. The first game had slow paced, tactical engagements which was all about figuring out how to stay out of harms way and use the environment to your advantage. Big fights with big daddies (and sistahs if you count 2) was done best by laying down mines, drawing them into turret fire, and choosing the right ammo.

The combat in Infinite is much more about getting an overview of the larger area. You use the lines and the tears to get to high ground and behind cover, you use speed and superior firepower (and vigourpower) to distract, flank and destroy large groups of enemies. You are, to a much larger degree, able to soak up some bullets, especially late in the game with the bulletblocking vigour. You do not have time to carefully plan - when something big comes up, you have to think on your feet, run away, and do chip damage until it's brought down. The goals are different, the tools are different, the pace is different. You can discuss which is better, but that would be more about if survival gameplay is more fun than fast-paced shooting gameplay.

Not to spoil anything, but both have largely unnecessary and not very interesting end bosses. The fight towards the end of Infinite is really fun, but not really something I felt was appropriate to end the game with. The bullet sponge you shoot at for two minutes until it dies at the ending of the first was neither really that fun, but it was a more necessary part of the story. What was the end fight for Bioshock 2? 2 big sisters at once? Creativity!



You'll probably be interested in talking about the story too, and I'll let someone else start off there, but an interesting note; you know how there's a big binary choice throughout the entire first game (harvest vs save) which leads to one of two different endings? And you don't have the same kind of split ending in Infinite? This is a quote about the first game from Ken Levine, the lead designer, I shamelessly stole from wikipedia: "it was never my intention to do two endings for the game. It sort of came very late and it was something that was requested by somebody up the food chain from me."

It's kinda funny how "choice" has become a selling point that's ticked off on a list of "things to make the game sell".
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ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #138 on: 08 Apr 2013, 16:26 »

Yeah, the combat is largely down to preference really. Either way, I basically play them in spite of the gameplay, not because of it. I feel like the Shooter trappings actually hinder the games more than anything.

Mostly I feel like they're Adventure/RPG games trapped in an FPS.
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Parkour Lewis

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #139 on: 10 Apr 2013, 15:52 »

It's mentioned here and there. You find the voxophone that goes most into depth about it in a house that's a bit outside the beaten path - you have to, at one point, turn around and look backwards to see the entrance, as far as I remember.

The barbershop quartet early on singing God Only Knows is the best thing, though:


^^^THIS

That was probably still one of my favorite moments in the game.  I'm almost kind-of a maybe music buff, and when I heard them singing my ears perked up and I thought to myself, ".....I know this song...." and when I finally recognized the lyrics and remembered the time period I went into "holy shit" mode and decided this game was going to be great, regardless of gameplay or story, just for that moment alone if nothing else.  This feeling was doubled when I heard the negro spiritual of "Fortunate Son", one of my favorite songs ever, sung in one of my favorite genres, ever.

The gameplay?  At first I had doubts about the two-weapon system, but it made the pacing faster and allowed for a more by-the-seat-of-my-pants gameplay style, which I liked in the end.  The first two games probably let you get more into the character, but this playstyle lets you get more into the story, so it's really just a different flavor, and not a bad one at that.

The story left me stymied.  I understood the greatest part of it, except for
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  I enjoyed it a lot though.

Definintely at least a 9 in my book, reaching for a 10.
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GarandMarine

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #140 on: 10 Apr 2013, 23:33 »

....holy hera that's a lot of spoiler tags... between you guys and my little brother I might go redbox this one. I was gonna wait for the price to come down a little... but damn I might just marathon it this weekend.
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KingOfIreland

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #141 on: 11 Apr 2013, 02:30 »

It's mentioned here and there. You find the voxophone that goes most into depth about it in a house that's a bit outside the beaten path - you have to, at one point, turn around and look backwards to see the entrance, as far as I remember.

The barbershop quartet early on singing God Only Knows is the best thing, though:


Yeah, I immediately noticed that and basically listened out for everything and anything like that :D
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Thrillho

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #142 on: 11 Apr 2013, 10:36 »

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ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #143 on: 11 Apr 2013, 11:38 »

Alright, I think this blogger critique of the game is a good start to get the talk about the failure of the game mechanics and story. Comparisons to the first game are made somewhat, but I don't think anything is spoiled.

Bioshock Inifnite: Now is the Time

Also while reading, keep in mind the last paragraph.

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Phew. Okay. That was the violin-note. My last thought is to emphasize that I think a thorough critique is the highest compliment I can pay to any work. This vision deserves it. And I'd rather have a hundred imperfect games aching with the hollow voices of their strained creators than the loveliest cover shooter ever made. This is a crucial moment in our canon, and I honor it.

I don't agree with everything stated, but I'll come back later to give some of my thoughts.

Also, I'd probably give the game a 85 - 90.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #144 on: 11 Apr 2013, 11:57 »

In the same vein of criticality, I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything that TotalBiscuit talks about in his video.


Except when he talks about Elizabeth. He seems to have had a few jarring experiences regarding her behaviour during plot-heavy moments that break the suspension of disbelief, so he seems to think that her usual cheerfulness was never toned down in favour of her mood at the time. I know this is not true, though, because at the point where Elizabeth was stunned and horrified by first witnessing Booker using violence, I directed her to a locked door immediately after that conversation. She didn't say a word when she picked that lock, so it was clear that her usual cheerful dialog was suspended in that moment when she was really upset.

I also don't understand why it's a problem that Elizabeth doesn't actually pick up items from the environment to toss you, and instead they just materialise when necessary. TB says "So you use a lot of vigors and deplete your salts, and look! Elizabeth found some salts. What a coincidence." Well, of course it is. You wouldn't expect her to toss you a health kit if your hit points are full, would you? It would severely diminish her usefulness as a companion if she was just picking up the things you could have picked up as well, and it avoids the problem of having picked the environment clean after a prolonged fight and being stuck without resources. So her help in this case is a form of cheating, like a contextual use of the /give command, but I think the game isn't worse for it because it diminishes the occasional frustration that mid-combat resource hunting brings with it.

Although it did become a bit too obvious how often she'd toss you money after having used a vending machine, I wouldn't mind if that was a bit more subtle.
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ackblom12

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #145 on: 11 Apr 2013, 16:36 »

Just finished watching it and I find myself agreeing with him more than not as well. I have the reversed preference for games than he does (I value story over mechanics almost without fail, hence so many of my favorite games being extremely broken like Arcanum and Fallout 2) but because of how he does his reviews, he didn't cover some of what I have a problem with. The main thing being that, while this may be more a problem of my expectations than the game's, I think it handled the political analysis that Bioshock is famous for really, poorly in comparison.

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GarandMarine

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #146 on: 11 Apr 2013, 22:58 »

Winning review? Yahtzee liked it.
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #147 on: 12 Apr 2013, 04:03 »

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I agree about the racism. The game's attitude was generally "Look, these people are also racist!" but the commentary basically ended there. I think that maybe they didn't want to make the game about racism because everyone already knows that racism is a Bad Thing - or at least that the 'black people are inferior' type of overt racism is. So I was surprised when TB said that the game made him empathise with the racists, because I didn't get that feeling at all. Sure, you can empathise with the people in spite of their racist tendencies, but there's no real reason for them to be racist other than 'everybody just is'.

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Parkour Lewis

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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #148 on: 12 Apr 2013, 07:05 »

I probably shouldn't say this but I was talking about BI with a friend yesterday and realized a few things that I hadn't before regarding the twins and Booker.  I probably should've turned around and played it through again instead of sending it back to gamefly, but
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Re: Bioshock: Infinite
« Reply #149 on: 12 Apr 2013, 07:26 »

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