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Poll

Is this "The Talk" all over again?

Yes.
- 15 (5%)
No, it's not the same.
- 14 (4.7%)
No, it's even worse.
- 25 (8.4%)
No, it means Dora's history.
- 30 (10.1%)
No, because it's going to end different.
- 19 (6.4%)
No, because there's emergency bourbon.
- 17 (5.7%)
UBMEOD!
- 34 (11.4%)
Oh heck, who am I kidding?
- 4 (1.3%)
(sniff) No, I've just got (sniff) allergies...
- 31 (10.4%)
This thread is gonna hit 40 pages by tomorrow, isn't it?
- 109 (36.6%)

Total Members Voted: 237


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Author Topic: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)  (Read 441584 times)

iduguphergrave

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #100 on: 15 Nov 2010, 06:56 »

Yay! Is it time for some more Dora-Marten drama already?!

Normally, I side with Marten during these fights since Dora is almost always the one to fly off the handle about something insignificant, but on this round, I do not think I can understand Marten's position here. Even if she did "invade his privacy," why not just roll one's eyes and leave? This time Marten is the one who is completely overreacting.


I agree, it seems a little childish to just stomp off into your room and slam the door. Then again, Marten's only been this angry a few times in the comic and he's not a hot-tempered person in general; methinks he's not very good at dealing with his anger because it's a somewhat unfamiliar emotion for him.
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xerada

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #101 on: 15 Nov 2010, 06:56 »

Normally, I side with Marten during these fights since Dora is almost always the one to fly off the handle about something insignificant, but on this round, I do not think I can understand Marten's position here. Even if she did "invade his privacy," why not just roll one's eyes and leave? This time Marten is the one who is completely overreacting.
I disagree with you on that one. Even if you have no problem with your SO invading your privacy like that, it's about not respecting you as a person. If you can say NO as often as you want and your partner doesn't hear you, s/he does not respect you and your decisions.

Even though this comic has been around for years, I am beginning to think that Dora and Marten moved in together a little too soon. I imagine the whole span of the comic has been just shy of two years, with Dora and Marten's relationship lasting somewhere around 12-14 months. Adding another year to make the comic span three years with Dora and Marten together for two years still does not strike me as long enough for them to be living together, especially given Marten's original reservations about it (1578). To save the relationship, it may be better if Dora moves out until they are really ready to live together.
Yeah, that may be true. But given Dora's issues, this may lead to a break-up or something.
« Last Edit: 16 Nov 2010, 08:37 by xerada »
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westrim

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #102 on: 15 Nov 2010, 08:06 »

I should be getting all uppity and start quoting people to respond to in Marten's favor, but I just increased my understanding of the universe a little bit, so I'll sit this one out  :angel: . And all the other arguments that occur as we argue over things Jeph has already decided and will draw tomorrow/day after/sometime in the next week.

It amuses me that GOOGLE IT! skipped getting included in the poll with a question about porn.   :psyduck:

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someone1074

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #103 on: 15 Nov 2010, 08:20 »

Two things:

1) Adblock is great. You can add exceptions to adblock, literally by clicking twice on the small button to the upper right corner your firefox window. I have Adblock but I also have every webcomic I frequent as exceptions.

2) Marten's definitely in the right here. While Dora may have been joking around, you would think after enough "No"s, she'd actually listen to him and forget about it. Again, it could have been an innocent mistake on her part (and I bet it will be), but it does speak to a small lack of respect on her part. This is his private collection after all and he has a right to decide who has access to it.
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raoullefere

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #104 on: 15 Nov 2010, 08:41 »

(Lotsa quotes from other folks)

 I have to agree with this, I think it's stemming more from Dora's past relationships than anything going on now beytween her and Marten.  

She's afraid.  Afraid that, because he says he loves her, he's really like the others who've said it in the past.  Afraid that there's really some twisted side to him.  Afraid that, because of his protestations, there must be something there.  

So she goes and looks, and is disappointed when there's no "there" there.  

But it's the confusion over Marten's reaction that really shows what's going on.  Dora's always been a lot more open sexually than the people around her, and it confuses her that Marten, who's open to her, would have this sticking point.  She stepped over a boundary that she didn't see, and doesn't understand the alarms that just went off.  

She will, soon enough.  
I agree. More than that, I called this, or parts of it:

Here.

Time will tell if I'm right about the rest of it.

Jeph, every page of this, no matter how lunatic it gets, is an homage to your ability to touch our imaginations and emotions. I don't think you should read it, but I do think that every page that mounts up counts as a tribute to your abilities.
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #105 on: 15 Nov 2010, 08:49 »

It's Monday, and we're on three pages already. 

What's the record?
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Moxie

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #106 on: 15 Nov 2010, 09:02 »

After reading through the thread, I'm piecing together ideas other people mentioned along with my own thoughts on the matter. (Sorry about the length)

From Dora's POV:
Boyfriends are all assholes, at one point or another. And being an asshole means hurting her specifically, possibly physically but definitely emotionally through some sort of trust-breaking action. In other words, she was too trusting in the past and got her heart and emotions totally trampled on. It doesn't help that she sees her older brother treating women in a similar manner to which she was treated. So she tried to toughen up.
And now she's dating Marten, a guy who, as far as any of us know, is the nicest, most willing guy ever. And that whole concept is foreign to her. No guy is ever like that, even if he starts out seeming like that. And the longer she dates Marten, and the longer he continues to be awesome to her, the more paranoid she gets about the whole thing. So every little thing that could possibly, in any way, be construed as Marten being the asshole she (subconsciously) expects him to turn out to be, she blows way out of proportion. It's supposed to be the Thing She Loses Trust over, but then Marten turns around and doesn't act like the other boyfriends again - he talks it over, lets her express her doubts, and they move on. But Dora can't quite shake lose this lack of trust.
And then they're talking about porn. Dora is curious about Marten's - she's never even seen him watching any. And then Marten doesn't want to tell her about it. Alarm bells go off for Dora - this is it, this is the Thing. Not only does he express a desire to not share any details, he tries to a "tough guy" defense. And Dora thinks that yes, she's gotta know what's going on here because finally, what she was expecting all along will happen. (I also think that Dora's got some kind of a complex about always being right, but in this case it's more subconscious.) So Dora goes to ask Pintsize, figuring Marten will have him take care of it (showing, in some aspect, that she doesn't know Marten all that super well anyway), and Pintsize doesn't know, but he does know it's on the laptop and he'll show it to her (they just gotta figure out the password, maybe). And Dora finds that the porn is nothing at all - just regular run of the mill stuff. Again, not the behavior she was expecting.
Again, Marten proves to not be the guy she thinks all guys are gonna end up being. And then he's all up in her face about it, and she can't figure out why. If it were one of the other assholes, he'd be mad because she just found out some secret about him, but it's not really the case with Marten. She crossed a line with Marten and didn't even look back, and now she doesn't understand because Marten is not what she's expecting him to be in the slightest.

Marten's POV:
Surely growing up with a mom doing what she does can sometimes lead to awkward conversations for him. It can't be fun to be hanging out with some guys, and the conversation turns to porn, and he hears about them jerking off to his mom. And then they ask him if he's watched Veronica Vance, and when he says no, and they get all on his case about why not, she's so hot and whatever, to have to tell them she's his mom...it's probably just not so cool. Suddenly they can't look him in the eye anymore, and the whole night turns weird. So he's probably learned to just not talk about it. Not really. Or rather, not specifics. If he lets 'em think he's into something so kinky and odd that he can't even talk about it, all the better. Beats having to hear about what they think/do concerning his mom.
So Marten just doesn't talk about it. And he most likely feels like it's private anyway - why wouldn't he feel private about it, especially when his mom isn't particularly. And maybe that doesn't mean he won't share it with his SO eventually, but it's probably gotta be on his own terms. He needs to feel safe about it...he needs to trust the person. And I can see him not being too comfortable sharing that with Dora right now. Especially after they just had a big trust argument. (and he already knows Dora is a fan of his mom and watched her as a teenager...I can see him not particularly wanting to find out she still watches her.) Besides, he doesn't particularly wanna talk about it in front of Faye.
So when Dora pushes it (and he's not surprised she did, she's way more chill with discussing stuff like this in the ear-range of anyone), and he tells her it's private and he certainly doesn't want to talk about it here, and he'd like her to not really go into it, he's actually a little surprised that she leaves, saying she's gonna find out. And then he sees  her on his computer! Talk about a violation of trust. Marten has no doubts, I'm sure, that if he was looking up things about Dora on her computer she'd throw the most Epic Rage Fit ever, and so he's totally baffled as to why she doesn't see her actions as a gross betrayal of trust.


In other words, these two continue to have the worst communication ever, and to be a solid couple, they are going to have to really work on that. And Dora really needs to go into therapy. Marten maybe. Dora needs to learn that just because she's cool with sharing whatever, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else is - and just because they aren't doesn't mean they're hiding something.
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Border Reiver

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #107 on: 15 Nov 2010, 09:10 »

.
It's Monday, and we're on three pages already. 

What's the record?

Not sure, probably set during the "OMG Faye Slept with Sven!" week any way.  Not really important enough to look up.

Been holding off on commenting on today's strip to see what others have thought, and I generally believe that this relatively minor incident is a significant point in the Marten/Dora relationship.  Marten asked that his privacy be respected, not directly, but obviously enough that even I got it, and Dora decided that she couldn't leave well enough alone.  

All couples do the boundaries business - there are just some issues that you just don't force, and Marten's reaction to being completely disregarded is rather understandable.  

Jeph read the thread if you must, ignore it if you can.  As was said earlier, the hubbub is a teatament to your skills as a writer and your ability to make us give a rat's ass about the characters.  Keep that up
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eyosgkxb

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #108 on: 15 Nov 2010, 09:26 »

Dora is a bitch, I hope Marten breaks up with her.

Dora/Marten Breakup Arc begins.

We need some more action in this comic, last week left us wanting more drama.
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #109 on: 15 Nov 2010, 09:59 »

Dora is a bitch, I hope Marten breaks up with her.

Fuck you

Dora is a bitch!

Fuck you

Yeah, I'm going to jump into the "Dora was just looking to start something" side of the ring here. You could basically tell thats what was happening by her facial expressions through the entire strip.

Fuck you

how do I block this thread from my computers for the next week

or forever
 :psyduck:


FUCK you

Drama! It'll be cleared up by the end of the week, as we all know Jeph hates drama  :cry:

Also smart move on Marten's part not putting his stash on Pintsize, I mean the guy could/would blab to anybody. Not that it apparently stops him from showing him the laptop.
Time for this week's round of: "Is Dora a Bitch or Not Discussion Panel CXVII"

I'm just going to chime in and say that Dora really had to know this was coming. I mean come on, Marten obviously didn't want her to do this, it was written all over his face. Yet she left work to go check out his stash. At best this was incredibly thoughtless and at worst a blatant violation of privacy.

Is Dora a bitch? No, but she is a bit tactless.

You're cool

Fuck this arc

I'm out.

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eyosgkxb

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #110 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:07 »

Dora is a bitch, I hope Marten breaks up with her.

Fuck you



LOL, looks like someone's life is meaningless without an online relationship he can comment on and enjoy!

Now I really hope they break up. All the fangirls can hope that Tai gets with Dora after a tragic crying mess.
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charybdis

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #111 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:17 »

While I will say this is a pretty bitch move by Dora (Oh God don't eat me Dr. Roflpwn.), seeing as Marten specifically said it was private, I'm with the camp saying she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. The vibe I'm getting from her in this comic & the previous one is "What the hell? Why are you getting so worked up about this? This is dumb." I don't think she really got the concept  that pornography may be an extremely awkward topic for him, despite previous comics when Marten is saying "My mother does porn, can we please not talk about it?" Hell, in one of those comics, he asks her to stop talking about his mom, and she does for a split second before continuing. I mean, come on!

If it's a miscommunication, I think it's fairly clearly Dora not paying attention. I know if my fiance said something like that (and let's be honest, his mom is smokin') I'd avoid the topic entirely. I don't think it's intentional so much as she's oblivious and possibly a bit self-centered in that she thinks, "I'm open about porn, why shouldn't he be?"

Also, Moxie, fantastic analysis. I think you're dead on the money with both of them, especially Marten.

Also, side note, it must have gotten at least 2x more awkward for Marten when Dora says "I'll show you mine!" when he knows she faps and/or has fapped to his mom. That reminder probably amped up his Defensive Mode considerably.
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #112 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:29 »


Seriously, after all this blatant over-analysis, a part of me hopes that it all boils down to

Dora: "I was just kidding around. I'm sorry."

Marten: "I wasn't. Why didn't you listen to me?"

Dora: "I didn't think this was serious. Forgive me?"

Marten: "Sure."
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Prince of Space

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #113 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:35 »

Jeph read the thread if you must, ignore it if you can.  As was said earlier, the hubbub is a teatament to your skills as a writer and your ability to make us give a rat's ass about the characters.  Keep that up

Nothing personal here, but this is not an absolute truth.  For instance, I wouldn't call Stephanie Meyers a good writer (quite the opposite) and after skimming one book in particular, I was annoyed/appalled (and bored) enough to actually start complaining about it to no one in particular.  This made me feel better even though I knew it wasn't going to change anything.  Especially when someone else was there to keep me in check, argue, or agree with me.

So...nothing against Jeph or anyone who agrees with that statement, but just because people are complaining/raising hell over the characters isn't proof of good writing or well fleshed out characters.  

About today's comic though, Dora has officially become a unlikeable character to me.   She's really done nothing in this comic other than make sassy remarks, become Marten's girlfriend, own a coffee shop, and wash her cat.  Oh and have a tattoo.   HOWEVER, I think we all need to remember that not that much time has passed yet.  She's just moved in with Marten, right?  Realistically, she's still dealing with some demons and they've just now moved in together...so those didn't have a chance to seep out until now.

I still don't like her, but this relationship rings realistic to me(albeit annoying).  As flat as I think Dora or Marten might be, the problems they're going through are common ones, easy to relate to.   I could go either way with them right now.
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disaacs

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #114 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:47 »

This isn't about porn, it is about respect.

When it came to personal porn preferences Marten drew a line and said he didn't want to go there. This is so uncharacteristic for Marten that Dora should have immediately figured that this was something to be approached with more feeling. Instead she completely ignored the warning signs. She was obviously looking for something entertaining, and seem disappointed to find nothing special. From Marten's point of view, it looks like she doesn't care about him, or doesn't care about boundaries in general, or gets so caught up in her own entertainment that she forgets about the feelings of others. Any of these is a bad sign.

In a relationship boundaries can be changed. But the changes should be negotiated, not blasted away.

Also, although I agree with Marten being pissed off, he should not have left. Walking out of a disagreement is not going to solve anything.
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JackFaerie

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #115 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:51 »

So what's the point in having fantasies, if you don't want to make them true? I agree with you about the privacy between couples, but i don't believe that if you have a fantasy, then you want your sex-life to be completly different to it.

So I'm gonna assume you watch really tame porn then.  Ok. Some examples:

Some women are really into rape and dominance porn, but only like it as a removed fantasy, and would certainly a) not want to be raped, b) might not even want to act it out as a play-pretend thing. But it might get them off in pure fantasy form.

A guy might be almost exclusively into gangbang/bukakke porn, but be absolutely vanilla in practice, with no interest in actually participating in such a set-up.

On a more innocuous level, I'm someone who's built kinda like Dora and used to be insecure about it, and one of my first boyfriends's porn stash consisted exclusively of extremely large-breasted girl-on-girl porn. Yet his partner choice, before and after myself, showed that his real-life dating preferences often ran to the gamine type (he did get together with some busty girls as well--but if anything, they were the minority). If this were true for Marten, Dora could well have flipped out about it on him: "why do the women you get off to look the absolute opposite of me, " etc etc.
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Dusk

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #116 on: 15 Nov 2010, 10:55 »

Prediction: This fight spirals into a break-up.

Dora utilizes the time to iron out sibling issues with Sven...their parallel relationship issues enabling them to work around previous obstacles, they both become better people in the long run.

Marten and Hanners rescue Amir from a raging Allosaurus and transform Deathmole into a commecial and popular success at at least the regional level.

I agree with part of your second statement, kinda--I think it'd be interesting if now Marten goes to Sven again for girl advice, etc, and we Sven becoming a better person, especially after the date with Hanners. BUT Dora seems to be going in the opposite direction, almost (almost!) as if she and Sven are switching roles (in a weird, twisted sort of way). My two cents.

Also I say yes to the last bit, too. That will have to happen at some point. ...Speaking of which, when was the last time we saw Deathmole? Amir's been super absent recently.

Some women are really into rape and dominance porn, but only like it as a removed fantasy, and would certainly a) not want to be raped, b) might not even want to act it out as a play-pretend thing. But it might get them off in pure fantasy form.

This is where we get fanfiction of Mary-Sues in such scenarios. It all makes sense now!

Now I really hope they break up. All the fangirls can hope that Tai gets with Dora after a tragic crying mess.

Wait wait wait what about Tai and Marigold?! SPACE WIZARDS.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2010, 11:01 by Dusk »
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Moxie

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #117 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:20 »

Also, Moxie, fantastic analysis. I think you're dead on the money with both of them, especially Marten.

Hey, thanks! I think your two following points are also quite true:

I don't think it's intentional so much as she's oblivious and possibly a bit self-centered in that she thinks, "I'm open about porn, why shouldn't he be?"

Also, side note, it must have gotten at least 2x more awkward for Marten when Dora says "I'll show you mine!" when he knows she faps and/or has fapped to his mom. That reminder probably amped up his Defensive Mode considerably.



Also, although I agree with Marten being pissed off, he should not have left. Walking out of a disagreement is not going to solve anything.
While walking out itself certainly isn't going to solve anything, there's quite a lot of good about walking out when one is too upset to discuss something rationally. In fact, that's a conflict-helping strategy - wait until you're cooled down to talk about what happened in a manner that isn't inflammatory and runs the risk of saying something that is said in a moment of anger that isn't really meant. This is now the second time Marten's gotten so upset with Dora that he's walked out of the conversation, and I think good on him for realizing he isn't in a good position to really discuss the problem. Marten is definitely about trying to be reasonable, and he seems to know himself well enough to know when he won't be.

edit: wait, I don't think this is the second time. I was thinking about the underwear argument, but he just went for a walk after Dora "kicked him out" of the bedroom, right?
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LeeC

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #118 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:23 »

didnt Tai already say she couldnt be with Dora even if they broke up because marten's already been inside her?
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #119 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:28 »

This arc actually makes it clear just what Dora's problem is: She's a storyteller. Not as in a pathological liar, but as in someone who experiences a great deal of their lives attempting to live out the narratives they think they're involved in rather than looking at the evidence around them and assessing a situation. Case in point: The underwear fight. Dora sees Marten and Faye in their underwear, thinks "I know this story" and it then takes quite a bit of time to convince her that what's actually going on is not much at all. Then you come to this arc. Marten acts all flustered and defensive and doesn't want to share his porn tastes. Faye suggests he has some kind of secret fetish. Without having to blink, Dora can finish this one off: she'll check his porn, and even though he'll object, it will be a mostly facetious objection for the laugh factor. Then she'll find out he has some embarrassing fetish, and again, laughs will be had by all. Finally, she'll tell him she still loves him and is okay with his fetish, and the studio audience will let out a collective "aww". Finally, she'll make some comment implying she might like to try whatever he's into some time and we'll be left with a giant "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!" moment to end the scene on.

What Faye seems to be realizing in the last panel of Friday's comic is that things don't always work like a network sitcom. Not only is Marten fully entitled to his privacy whether or not it would be funny, but he's also not particularly likely to willingly walk into a situation that casts him as the loveable loser. While Marten did kind of make it ambiguous with his somewhat comical reactions ("Once you open that Pandora's box, it can't be closed again"), Dora should've realized that this is real life (well, in a manner of speaking) and people's feelings are actually more important than how things would probably play out on the silver screen. It's a fairly easy problem to deal with. It just means she's a little misanthropic and needs to somehow gain a more full appreciation for the human condition.
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laizeohbeets

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #120 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:30 »

Man, ok, I'm siding with Marten this time. You touch my computer without permission? I'm already pissed off at you. You touch my computer, without permission, to check to see if I have any porn I refuse to discuss with you (because I am very private about this stuff), and that's probably a breakup-style offense.

I probably would break up with my SO over something like this.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #121 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:30 »

Wow.  Three pages already.  I almost feel bad adding to it.

I disagree that he was testing her.  Testing would indicate that he specifically told her not to in order to see if she would.  Martin's almost anti-manipulative, a value that's emphasized here where there's no indication that he has any idea she'll instantly go and check his pr0n cache the moment in time after he espouses the virtue of privacy, given that she's working and they're just joking.  Going to check on her to see if she was then doing what she said she would do--given that he doesn't want her to do it--is perfectly reasonable.  Since there is a possibility she's just messing with him and will not actually do it?  She could even go so far as luring him upstairs for ulterior motives?  Such as smoochy-time or a more private talk about it?

I understand the extrapolation that Martin is being artificial based on his lack of darning porn (as in porn that sends you to Heck, not this), but I think it's more likely that he's not incredibly simple, and may honestly be uncomfortable with the subject of his porn viewing around Dora.  Might have something to do with his mother, that could be incredibly complex or simple in a myriad of possible ways.  Maybe he's finding more satisfaction with porn than Dora lately; maybe Dora's inability to learn and understand him after all this time is getting to him.  His insecurity about their relationship might be boiling underneath his happy, stony exterior.

His anger upon confirming that Dora is not taking his interests as an equal partner seriously* was probably not something he was coldly calculating and building up to on his way to find her.  He honestly doesn't seem to have self-control so much as just mellowness (as a personality trait that might be a defensive mechanism) most of the time.  And in their healthy relationship supposed-paradigm, he doesn't have an obligation to keep from displaying his emotions in a non-violent way, while she does have the obligation to try to communicate openly instead of not.  Or at least notice that he's upset and apologize instead of being defensive and scowly.

I agree with you on this ^, but you kinda lost me with the 'they should break up now' refrain.  Marten and Dora need to figure their shit out -- mutual respect and open communication (even if the 'open communication' is about how Marten doesn't want to share porn with Dora, unless it's on his own terms) is kinda essential to a successful relationship, and I think they're capable of that.

From Dora's POV:
Boyfriends are all assholes, at one point or another. And being an asshole means hurting her specifically, possibly physically but definitely emotionally through some sort of trust-breaking action. In other words, she was too trusting in the past and got her heart and emotions totally trampled on. It doesn't help that she sees her older brother treating women in a similar manner to which she was treated. So she tried to toughen up.
And now she's dating Marten, a guy who, as far as any of us know, is the nicest, most willing guy ever. And that whole concept is foreign to her. No guy is ever like that, even if he starts out seeming like that. And the longer she dates Marten, and the longer he continues to be awesome to her, the more paranoid she gets about the whole thing. So every little thing that could possibly, in any way, be construed as Marten being the asshole she (subconsciously) expects him to turn out to be, she blows way out of proportion. It's supposed to be the Thing She Loses Trust over, but then Marten turns around and doesn't act like the other boyfriends again - he talks it over, lets her express her doubts, and they move on. But Dora can't quite shake lose this lack of trust.
And then they're talking about porn. Dora is curious about Marten's - she's never even seen him watching any. And then Marten doesn't want to tell her about it. Alarm bells go off for Dora - this is it, this is the Thing. Not only does he express a desire to not share any details, he tries to a "tough guy" defense. And Dora thinks that yes, she's gotta know what's going on here because finally, what she was expecting all along will happen. (I also think that Dora's got some kind of a complex about always being right, but in this case it's more subconscious.) So Dora goes to ask Pintsize, figuring Marten will have him take care of it (showing, in some aspect, that she doesn't know Marten all that super well anyway), and Pintsize doesn't know, but he does know it's on the laptop and he'll show it to her (they just gotta figure out the password, maybe). And Dora finds that the porn is nothing at all - just regular run of the mill stuff. Again, not the behavior she was expecting.
Again, Marten proves to not be the guy she thinks all guys are gonna end up being. And then he's all up in her face about it, and she can't figure out why. If it were one of the other assholes, he'd be mad because she just found out some secret about him, but it's not really the case with Marten. She crossed a line with Marten and didn't even look back, and now she doesn't understand because Marten is not what she's expecting him to be in the slightest.

Marten's POV:
Surely growing up with a mom doing what she does can sometimes lead to awkward conversations for him. It can't be fun to be hanging out with some guys, and the conversation turns to porn, and he hears about them jerking off to his mom. And then they ask him if he's watched Veronica Vance, and when he says no, and they get all on his case about why not, she's so hot and whatever, to have to tell them she's his mom...it's probably just not so cool. Suddenly they can't look him in the eye anymore, and the whole night turns weird. So he's probably learned to just not talk about it. Not really. Or rather, not specifics. If he lets 'em think he's into something so kinky and odd that he can't even talk about it, all the better. Beats having to hear about what they think/do concerning his mom.
So Marten just doesn't talk about it. And he most likely feels like it's private anyway - why wouldn't he feel private about it, especially when his mom isn't particularly. And maybe that doesn't mean he won't share it with his SO eventually, but it's probably gotta be on his own terms. He needs to feel safe about it...he needs to trust the person. And I can see him not being too comfortable sharing that with Dora right now. Especially after they just had a big trust argument. (and he already knows Dora is a fan of his mom and watched her as a teenager...I can see him not particularly wanting to find out she still watches her.) Besides, he doesn't particularly wanna talk about it in front of Faye.
So when Dora pushes it (and he's not surprised she did, she's way more chill with discussing stuff like this in the ear-range of anyone), and he tells her it's private and he certainly doesn't want to talk about it here, and he'd like her to not really go into it, he's actually a little surprised that she leaves, saying she's gonna find out. And then he sees  her on his computer! Talk about a violation of trust. Marten has no doubts, I'm sure, that if he was looking up things about Dora on her computer she'd throw the most Epic Rage Fit ever, and so he's totally baffled as to why she doesn't see her actions as a gross betrayal of trust.

And I think your assessment of Marten and Dora's PoVs is pretty much spot-on.  Odds are they'll talk this stuff out, and maybe they'll understand each other better, or maybe they'll struggle with it for awhile.  Meanwhile, Faye may be back at CoD feeling guilty -- not because Dora's reaction was her fault, but because she accidentally instigated what turned into another fight, something she seemed to be aware of in the last panel of Friday's comeek.

Jeph said he'd written 8 more strips -- so that's 7 to go at this point.  Hope he sticks to his guns and STOPS READING THIS THREAD.  Seriously, there are better forms of self-abuse.  (Just ask Pintsize.)
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #122 on: 15 Nov 2010, 11:35 »

I imagine Jeph reading this thread right now, sitting in his desk chair leaned back slightly, legs crossed lightly sipping a glass of wine, stroking an invisible cat and cackling madly as he watches the peons he calls his fans scurry about trying to guess his intentions. Every analysis, every prediction, every time one person criticizes another for their crackpot theory, the smile gets a little wider, the laugh a little more maniacal.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #123 on: 15 Nov 2010, 12:13 »

I imagine Jeph reading this thread right now, sitting in his desk chair leaned back slightly, legs crossed lightly sipping a glass of wine, stroking an invisible cat and cackling madly as he watches the peons he calls his fans scurry about trying to guess his intentions. Every analysis, every prediction, every time one person criticizes another for their crackpot theory, the smile gets a little wider, the laugh a little more maniacal.
invisible cat?!?!?!??! :psyduck:

Now i want one too! :psyduck:

I can't get enough off this guy :psyduck: he is too awesome
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #124 on: 15 Nov 2010, 12:31 »

Here, pussy, pussy, pussy! 

Damn, where'd that invisible cat go?!?
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #125 on: 15 Nov 2010, 12:35 »

Here, pussy, pussy, pussy! 

Damn, where'd that invisible cat go?!?
I mean... how hard can it be to lost a non-visible cat!! Sometimes i impress myself....
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #126 on: 15 Nov 2010, 12:37 »

Are there still Faye/Marten OTP people?  Is THAT why there's so much Dora hate? Because thinking of Marten and Faye doing anything more than hugging seriously makes me gag.

Or do you want a new girlfriend introduced? One who is independent, gets his sense of humor, grounded, sexy, educated, and only exhibits panic rarely? OH WAIT, that's Dora.

Let's list the highlights of their more than five minute fights:
haircut (because it lasted the whole day), girl comeon, Sven, pantless 3am hugging, forbidden porn
those were Dora's bad and she recognized it within 12 hours
all the rest were settled within 10 minutes or less.

If your going with the midnight sighs Marten has, we don't know if they're Dora-realted at all, just because she's next to him doesn't mean it's about her.

This incident is the equivelent of "you read my journal!?!?"
It's over and done with boundaries clearly set for the future.

The story hopefully delves into more into exposition of Dora, and some venting by Marten because that makes more sense than full on break up.
Hell, Dora being previously ENGAGED and left at the alter and the date of this fight makes more sense.

If these two break up, it will not be loud and heated. It will be like their beginning, quitely without distractions.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #127 on: 15 Nov 2010, 12:50 »

Also, Moxie, fantastic analysis. I think you're dead on the money with both of them, especially Marten.

Hey, thanks! I think your two following points are also quite true:

I don't think it's intentional so much as she's oblivious and possibly a bit self-centered in that she thinks, "I'm open about porn, why shouldn't he be?"

Also, side note, it must have gotten at least 2x more awkward for Marten when Dora says "I'll show you mine!" when he knows she faps and/or has fapped to his mom. That reminder probably amped up his Defensive Mode considerably.

Also, although I agree with Marten being pissed off, he should not have left. Walking out of a disagreement is not going to solve anything.
While walking out itself certainly isn't going to solve anything, there's quite a lot of good about walking out when one is too upset to discuss something rationally.

I concur that your analysis was really good. It definitely helped me adjust my perspective since my committed relationship is relatively open about porn viewing habits and it seemed like such an innocuous thing. Regardless of whether he has a special sensitivity the real problem is that he asked for privacy and she disrespected him because it shouldn't be a big deal and maybe he was just kidding around. Oblivious is not a good look on anyone, especially not a person in a relationship. She really needs to adjust her radar on reading his feelings.
My husband is definitely the type to walk away from an argument to regain composure, but I'm the type that when he does this the argument festers and I get angrier and the longer he waits the more I turn myself into an innocent victim and cast him as the villian. Let's hope Dora isn't like that. But to anyone who is calling for their break up, my husband and I have been together for over seven years, married for one and we are still working on these issues. Life is like that. Not every fictional couple can be Bella and Edward with their perfect stalker abusive loving relationship.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #128 on: 15 Nov 2010, 13:29 »


Or do you want a new girlfriend introduced? One who is independent, gets his sense of humor, grounded, sexy, educated, and only exhibits panic rarely? OH WAIT, that's Dora.

Let's list the highlights of their more than five minute fights:
haircut (because it lasted the whole day), girl comeon, Sven, pantless 3am hugging, forbidden porn
those were Dora's bad and she recognized it within 12 hours
all the rest were settled within 10 minutes or less.


The time thing! Finally! Someone's mentioned it!

I think a lot of us forget that while we have to sit here for a day waiting for a new comic, the characters are not interacting.  They are not in real time.
Even I forget this at times and wonder 'why is this still happening?' or 'why ISN'T this still happening?'

The thing is, barely any time is passing.   They're angry for 15 minutes, but to a lot of people in the discussion forums, you'd think they'd been at it for days.  But I completely understand this.  Like I said, we have a whole other day (or more) before we see their volley.   It's easy for *us* to get upset, then get over it, or not get over it.  Then when we've been stewing over it, we come back and wonder things we might not have if we'd been able to read the comics back to back without interruption. 

Anyone else ever think on this?


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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #129 on: 15 Nov 2010, 13:33 »

So what's the point in having fantasies, if you don't want to make them true?
To get stimulated by things that you can't or shouldn't put into practice.

Nancy Friday's book, My Secret Garden, relates many fantasies that were near and dear to the fantasizer but would be impossible or damaging in reality.

Lots of people in committed monogamous relationships fantasize about celebrities.

If you want it to come true, it's a goal and not a fantasy.

Switching topic, if Marten put a password on his laptop, Pintsize would boot it from a Linux live CD and crack the password, just because he could.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #130 on: 15 Nov 2010, 13:37 »

edit: wait, I don't think this is the second time. I was thinking about the underwear argument, but he just went for a walk after Dora "kicked him out" of the bedroom, right?
Yes, but you're right that it's the second time. In 1098, he walked away from a rapidly degenerating argument about Faye jumping Sven.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #131 on: 15 Nov 2010, 13:56 »

Here, pussy, pussy, pussy! 

Damn, where'd that invisible cat go?!?
Teh invisable kat iz wif Schr÷dinger. They r both laughin at u, cuz ure lookin 4 him. An hez invisable.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #132 on: 15 Nov 2010, 14:00 »

To all the people thinking "its no big deal, its just his porn, being in a committed relationship means being able to share everything", no, that is not necessarily true. Everyone is different. My wife keeps her porn in a big folder, that she has on the shared network, that she doesn't care if I look through. I don't even save mine. If she went looking through my internet history to find out what I looked at, that would annoy me. If she did it right after I said EXPLICITLY not to... I would be pissed. (Though, I will admit my wife does in a general way know some of the odd things I look at, from random conversations I've had with her)

It isn't about just her doing it, its about her doing it when he CLEARLY didn't want her to. People, even people in committed relationships, should be allowed the privacy THEY want, especially when it isn't that encompassing. All he has ever seemed to not discuss with her when asked is his porn. This is not a big deal for him to want. What his porn is doesn't change anything about their relationship, or who he is as a person. If he wants to have that left alone, he has the right to do that, and he is NOT wrong to request it, and is under no obligation to ever share it if he doesn't want to.

I don't see this idea that being in a serious relationship with someone gives them the right to know every last detail of your life, no matter that it will never affect them at all.

(I'm a generally open guy, known by most people for TMIing constantly, but that doesn't mean I don't have boundaries that I don't want crossed, or that I at least want to have crossed on MY terms)
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2010, 14:02 by Emperor Norton »
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Kazukagii

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #133 on: 15 Nov 2010, 14:37 »

Are there still Faye/Marten OTP people?  Is THAT why there's so much Dora hate?

Marten and Faye? Please, that pairing is so yesterday. Now Marten/Hanners on the other hand... I MEAN, WHAT DORA HATE? NO HATERS HERE, MARTEN/DORA ALL THE WAY, AM I RIGHT GUYS?
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #134 on: 15 Nov 2010, 14:49 »

My husband is definitely the type to walk away from an argument to regain composure, but I'm the type that when he does this the argument festers and I get angrier and the longer he waits the more I turn myself into an innocent victim and cast him as the villian. Let's hope Dora isn't like that. But to anyone who is calling for their break up, my husband and I have been together for over seven years, married for one and we are still working on these issues. Life is like that. Not every fictional couple can be Bella and Edward with their perfect stalker abusive loving relationship.

My wife and I were much the same.  I'd want to cool down, and in the interim she'd continue to boil over.  It took a couple of years, but we've learned to channel it differently - rather than leaving to calm myself down, I focus on calming her down first, agreeing that there's a problem, and turning it into a mental exercise to try and get to the root of the problem before either of us gets too heated. 

No, it doesn't always work.  But it's better than what used to happen!
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #135 on: 15 Nov 2010, 15:03 »

Seriously, after all this blatant over-analysis, a part of me hopes that it all boils down to

Dora: "I was just kidding around. I'm sorry."

Marten: "I wasn't. Why didn't you listen to me?"

Dora: "I didn't think this was serious. Forgive me?"

Marten: "You've crossed the line, I want you too start looking for another webcomic to ruin."
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #136 on: 15 Nov 2010, 15:13 »

Many people think there should be no privacy or boundaries between SOs or spouses, except maybe when going to the bathroom. More often than not the people with the "no privacy" view have adopted that view partly because previous SOs have used "privacy" to cover up various nefarious deeds, such as cheating. I'm sure this especially applies to Dora and her relationship history-it could be that she refuses to respect Marten's privacy because previous SOs have used privacy to cover up things they're doing that could, and have, hurt Dora. So Dora's trying to protect herself by not allowing Marten to hide anything from her.

Yeah, it sounds horrible, but since it appears Dora's had a history of dating assholes, it's understandable. It hasn't really sunk into her head yet that Marten really is different. Just another one of the hazards of dating someone whose previous SOs were assholes or bitches.

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #137 on: 15 Nov 2010, 15:37 »

Possibly the stupidest user-manual warning ever.

My favorite is on the cardboard windshield sunscreen: Remove sunscreen before driving vehicle
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #138 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:12 »

Hey, here's one - let's play "Guess what Dora's NEXT big "I'm an insecure, unlikeable bitch" moment is"!

Something happens to Marigold, Marten has plot convenience and is around at the time, they talk for awhile, he offers her a handkerchief he has for some reason, Dora storms in shrieking like the fucking banshee she is, thinking he's leaving her.

What. She's more or less done as much in the past.

She wants to basically dominate every aspect of his life. Anything outside of that control, she has a shit fit about. And she won't fucking listen to reason until someone basically gets in her face and screams at her to shut the fuck up. I dunno about you guys, but if I had a 'friend' who acted like that, and wouldn't go fuckin' get help for it, he/she would not be my 'friend' for very god damn long. How many times does this shit need to happen before Marten grows some testicles and tells Dora to see a fucking therapist or something? How about an ultimatum if she doesn't? "You either get your god damn head straightened out or you can get the hell out of my apartment."

"What? A hug?! No pants?! I don't need context - FUCK YOU!"
"What? Porn? He doesn't want me to see? I'LL LOOK ANYWAY IT IS MY RIGHT!"

Jesus. Dora is the worst person in this strip, hands down. Sven is a better person than Dora. Sven just sells dreams. Dora causes nightmares.

But we all know how this song and dance goes. A week of cut-aways, then everything's fine instantly, until the next wacky adventure!
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #139 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:27 »

You just gave my soul a huge dose of the sads, Chibisoma.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #140 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:37 »

I'm seeing this in a different way than most people are.

1. Dora is a pervert. She's open, she likes sexy things, and the conversation was revolving around it.
2. Martin acts shy and akward. Which would have been fine if Martin had actually stayed that way.
3. Martin makes a mistake in trying to make some sly joke. If you really don't want someone to look at something, you say it firmly. Serious statements get serious responses. Not even Hannelor or Marigolde could have taken Martin's statement about his hypothetical tastes as being serious.
4. Dora, being playful and overexcited by sexy issues, thinks this is still a game, and really just wants to play further. Rushing out, she probably doesn't hear Martin's rather pathetic "H-hey!".
5. Dora's naturally disapointed that there's no juicy porn tidbits. She may have actually been excited that there was some devilishly sexy side of Martin.
6. Martin, not realizing that he had failed to communicate that he was being serious, thinks Dora is trodding all over him, just like everyone else tends to. He snaps for it.

The crux of the situation? Martin's never had a girlfriend as forward as Dora (Jedi-mindtricks away bad typo), Dora's no doubt never had a boyfriend as reserved as Martin. I get the impression they've never actually set personal boundaries. You can't respect them if you have no idea where they are. I'm not inclined to blame anyone in this situation in particular, so much as hope they actually realize this is whats happened, and that they need to actually work out when to know when something is just a joke, or truely offlimits. I sympathize because I myself am a MAJOR pervert, ever since I was a teenager. For a long time I didn't know when to reel back that side of me, and I've jeopardized quite a few relationships because I crossed over boundaries I didn't understand.  But I learned.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2010, 16:44 by ChippyD »
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Moxie

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #141 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:41 »

The really sad part, hannahsaurusrex, is that ChibiSoma really does have an honest point.

ChibiSoma says:
She wants to basically dominate every aspect of his life. Anything outside of that control, she has a shit fit about. And she won't fucking listen to reason until someone basically gets in her face and screams at her to shut the fuck up.

You pointed out the list of things Dora has blown out of proportion:
Let's list the highlights of their more than five minute fights:
haircut (because it lasted the whole day), girl comeon, Sven, pantless 3am hugging, forbidden porn

All of these relation to things that Marten has done/things that have happened to Marten that Dora had no control over. And when she doesn't have that control, she gets paranoid that Marten is going to turn out to be like the assholes she's dated before (my theory). Dora really does have some serious issues, and really therapy would be the best thing for her. Each time something happens she says she's going to work on it, but she doesn't seem to be getting any better at all.

To alter a bit what someone1074  said, I seriously hope that it turns into something like:

Dora: "I was just kidding around. I'm sorry."

Marten: "I wasn't. Why didn't you listen to me?"

Dora: "I didn't think this was serious. Forgive me?"

Marten: "I may be able to forgive you, but I certainly don't think I can trust you. And if this relationship is going to continue on as a good, solid relationship, I think you should get therapy. Maybe me too."





One more thought - interesting that this seems to be the first time the tables have really turned, that Marten has done something and is reacting in a way that is completely baffling Dora.


Also - I think ChippyD has a good point too. Again, with the communication thing!
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #142 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:52 »

Many people think there should be no privacy or boundaries between SOs or spouses, except maybe when going to the bathroom. More often than not the people with the "no privacy" view have adopted that view partly because previous SOs have used "privacy" to cover up various nefarious deeds, such as cheating. I'm sure this especially applies to Dora and her relationship history-it could be that she refuses to respect Marten's privacy because previous SOs have used privacy to cover up things they're doing that could, and have, hurt Dora. So Dora's trying to protect herself by not allowing Marten to hide anything from her.

Yeah, it sounds horrible, but since it appears Dora's had a history of dating assholes, it's understandable. It hasn't really sunk into her head yet that Marten really is different. Just another one of the hazards of dating someone whose previous SOs were assholes or bitches.



This.

I am convinced that's the root of Dora's odd behavior - because seriously, that is kind of odd to me. Sure, she'd probably still try to find out what it is, but leaving work so quickly, as if it's a Huge Important Mission to find this out -NOW-? That's what someone does who's quietly freaking out. It also explains her letdown/annoyance that it was nothing - that didn't solve the problem, because that wasn't the problem.
The fact his porn was so whitebread probably made it -worse- in her mind.

She's got her issues and I agree that if she doesn't start working on them in more ways than just 'I'm working on them' (I'd say therapy - altho wasn't she seeing Faye's therapist, or did I make that up?) then they're going to cause bigger and bigger problems, but I can understand how she's just -not used to being with a guy that's okay now-.

It's not the same, but I was with someone for just about 8 years with, to put it delicately, sexual dysfunctions, which caused sex to be like the Olympics. Quickies or anything casual was out of the question, foreplay was useless and The Orgasm became the ultimate, only goal. Now I'm with someone with normal sexual functions, have been for close to 3 years, and I STILL think something's wrong when he climaxes within an hour or get scared that he's gonna lose his erection if I don't get him off RIGHT NOW.

Past relationship negatives just get -burned- into your brain, and it's really hard to scrape those seared-in expectations off. I really think Dora needs more help to do that.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #143 on: 15 Nov 2010, 16:57 »

I wouldnt mind seeing him going to the bar again and talking with Jimbo

No doubt.  And then he passes along some ridiculously profound and insightful relationship advice.

And then he passes out.


I can only imagine that they have awesome makeup sex considering how hard Dora works at screwing...
<misleading snip>

heh heh, screwing
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #144 on: 15 Nov 2010, 17:08 »

I'm seeing this in a different way than most people are.

1. Dora is a pervert. She's open, she likes sexy things, and the conversation was revolving around it.
2. Martin acts shy and akward. Which would have been fine if Martin had actually stayed that way.
3. Martin makes a mistake in trying to make some sly joke. If you really don't want someone to look at something, you say it firmly. Serious statements get serious responses. Not even Hannelor or Marigolde could have taken Martin's statement about his hypothetical tastes as being serious.
4. Dora, being playful and overexcited by sexy issues, thinks this is still a game, and really just wants to play further. Rushing out, she probably doesn't hear Martin's rather pathetic "H-hey!".
5. Dora's naturally disapointed that there's no juicy porn tidbits. She may have actually been excited that there was some devilishly sexy side of Martin.
6. Martin, not realizing that he had failed to communicate that he was being serious, thinks Dora is trodding all over him, just like everyone else tends to. He snaps for it.


This. Shit will be over soon and theyll make up. like its happened before. Its almost like fight, make up is Jeph's filler now
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #145 on: 15 Nov 2010, 17:20 »


She wants to basically dominate every aspect of his life. Anything outside of that control, she has a shit fit about. And she won't fucking listen to reason until someone basically gets in her face and screams at her to shut the fuck up. I dunno about you guys, but if I had a 'friend' who acted like that, and wouldn't go fuckin' get help for it, he/she would not be my 'friend' for very god damn long. How many times does this shit need to happen before Marten grows some testicles and tells Dora to see a fucking therapist or something? How about an ultimatum if she doesn't? "You either get your god damn head straightened out or you can get the hell out of my apartment."

"What? A hug?! No pants?! I don't need context - FUCK YOU!"
"What? Porn? He doesn't want me to see? I'LL LOOK ANYWAY IT IS MY RIGHT!"

Jesus. Dora is the worst person in this strip, hands down. Sven is a better person than Dora. Sven just sells dreams. Dora causes nightmares.

Do I dare ask who's your favorite?

Dora has enough control in her life, what she needs is confidence.

Basically you want Marten to tell his girlfriend who he loves, and who genuinely loves him back to hit the road because she gets upset at irrational things and tells him?

Would you rather her bottle it up? Would that make her less of a bitch, her keeping all of her doubts, insecurities, and annoyances bottled up, and then after he's forgotten about it bring them ALL up in one big MEGABITCH moment?
I know I would rather have a 4ft geyser erupt occasionally (filled with steam but only lasting a bit), than a full on Mt St Helens eruption with no prompting whatsoever.

She doesn't abuse him, she doesn't tell him he's crap, she supports his decisions, GETS HIS JOKES, encourages a social life that she doesn't have to be in all the time, AND puts up with Pintsize. PLUS THEY MAKE EACH OTHER HAPPY. You might hate that fact, but they do.

I don't think any fight they've had singularly or combined validates a break-up, or her being called a "fucking banshee." Even if she was in the wrong, she addressed it and accepted her fault.

If these two break up (for good, not a midnight one), it will be because they have become incompatible, not because she occasionally gets upset.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #146 on: 15 Nov 2010, 17:27 »

I also think people are forgetting how Martin went to another state for a girl, selling all his stuff, and leaving everyone he knew behind for her.

He's got a devotion complex, and he's not about to let someone go unless they kick him off their leg.
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #147 on: 15 Nov 2010, 17:34 »

Or do you want a new girlfriend introduced? One who is needy, tramples his boundaries without a second thought, paranoid, attractive when she's acting like a grown-up, looks down her nose at her own employees, and only exhibits panic when Marten's not toeing the line? OH WAIT, that's Dora.

Fixed that for ya. And for those who argue that we have a skewed perspective here because of comic-time, remember that goes the other way too. The underwear blow up, a month ago for us, was just a couple days ago for Marten (assuming there hasn't been another mini-time-skip).

This isn't necessarily break-up material (though if it were me a break-up would be in the ultimatum I'd give about listening when I say something is off-limits) but I'd have to wonder what's going on with a woman who's causing two blow-ups like this inside a week.

Edit: Also, what ChippyD said.
« Last Edit: 15 Nov 2010, 17:38 by DoubleJ »
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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #148 on: 15 Nov 2010, 17:55 »

You got a point about the time thing, but between the Sven/Faye thing and Underpants incident, that was MORE than a month.

I might actually try to timeline this shit. (It's really dead at work tonight)
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MarkCorrigan

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Re: WCDT 15-19 November 2010 (1796-1800)
« Reply #149 on: 15 Nov 2010, 18:04 »



Basically you want Marten to tell his girlfriend who he loves, and who genuinely loves him back to hit the road because she gets upset at irrational things and tells him?
Except that isn't what's happening. It used to be, she would do a minor panicky "do oo still wuv me?" moment and he'd say yes and it would be fine. No big deal, she's insecure and he helps her with it. Instead, she's exploding at him for little to no reason, or totally ignoring his privacy which he explicitly told her he wanted to keep at a certain point. Just because you are ok with sharing something with someone else doesn't give you the right to demand to have the same information about them.

Would you rather her bottle it up? Would that make her less of a bitch, her keeping all of her doubts, insecurities, and annoyances bottled up, and then after he's forgotten about it bring them ALL up in one big MEGABITCH moment?
I know I would rather have a 4ft geyser erupt occasionally (filled with steam but only lasting a bit), than a full on Mt St Helens eruption with no prompting whatsoever.
Alternatively, she could, you know, get help so she doesn't go psycho over tiny little things without listening to anyone and respects other people's privacy.

She doesn't abuse him, she doesn't tell him he's crap, she supports his decisions, GETS HIS JOKES, encourages a social life that she doesn't have to be in all the time, AND puts up with Pintsize. PLUS THEY MAKE EACH OTHER HAPPY. You might hate that fact, but they do.
She's also made him really angry recently, and she annoys the hell out of him by being clingy, needy and insecure. It's not like he's only started to complain about this recently, he's had a few "Why can't you accept I'm happy with you?" moments. Each time, it seems to me he's getting that little bit less forgiving and a little more pissed off.
I don't think any fight they've had singularly or combined validates a break-up, or her being called a "fucking banshee." Even if she was in the wrong, she addressed it and accepted her fault.
So, you don't think that the fact she started a fight because he got a haircut without consulting her was an issue? That is an exhibition of a demanded level of control over the relationship (and some wonderful double standards) that would make ME uncomfortable. Added together the fact she explicitly ignores his request for privacy and doesn't seem to see anything wrong with that, AND the pantsgate explosion AND the constant "You don't still want to bone Faye do you? Because I think you do" shtick AND the whole test about the girl asking him out thing I'm amazed that Marten hasn't gotten into a screaming match with her yet. He (and you, apparently) must have the patience of a saint.


If these two break up (for good, not a midnight one), it will be because they have become incompatible, not because she occasionally gets upset.

See above.
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