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Poll

The Moment Of The Week (Yeah, we're doing it again):

Caring Hannelore cares!
- 9 (7.6%)
"You're a terrible influence, alcohol-induced hallucination."
- 18 (15.1%)
Where's Faye's Bra?
- 7 (5.9%)
Some kind of creepy trophy...
- 1 (0.8%)
Sheer Intensity of Makeouts?
- 4 (3.4%)
Quantum Tunnelling effect
- 9 (7.6%)
Please tell me you did not drink that entire bottle
- 0 (0%)
That was a terrible idea.
- 3 (2.5%)
At least ONE of us isn't gonna remember this in the morning.
- 15 (12.6%)
Did I say anything stupid last night? No, you were fine.
- 6 (5%)
OWLS. Owls? OWLS.
- 38 (31.9%)
So, do you want me to kill Dora for you?
- 6 (5%)
Love you too, mom.
- 3 (2.5%)

Total Members Voted: 101


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Author Topic: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)  (Read 191652 times)

snubnose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #250 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:07 »

It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.

And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.

And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??

To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.

What the heck ?!?!?!?!??
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snubnose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #251 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:14 »

One way to interpret Marten's drunken outburst is being a dick, absolutely.  Bluntly, rudely honest ignoring the nuances of the overall situation?  I think thats another way.  Nothing I'd say to anyone myself, even drunkenly I'd hope, but he's taken more than enough of his ration of shit and I think everybody should get one.  Of course I knew he was gonna ktfo'd once he tried touching Faye.  Is it just me or is that the first time we've seen her actually commit an act of violence explicitly?
Um, honesty ? Personally I think he's just repeating now the stupid theories that have been thrown at him all the time while he was with Dora.

They are still as stupid as before, but as he is drunk now, he is no longer able to see that, and actually believes them right now.

Also, um, havent you ever read the early QC comics ? Faye has been a lot more violent in the past, especially in the early comics.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #252 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:15 »

Yeah, shame he just fucked that right on up, though.
Yes, he did fuck up, but I don't think Faye won't forgive him.

That line about how at least one of them wouldn't remember what happened indicates otherwise.
I think that indicates she's pissed off by what he just spouted, is what it indicates, and she's got every right. But this is Faye, and she has said straight out that Marten is her best friend in the world and she can barely take him being mad at her. She'll give him a sober chance to apologize and spill his guts.

If he tries to act all nonchalant and hipster cool, THEN he's fucked it right up.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #253 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:17 »

Oh please tell me Marten isn't going to do something stupid......

Well, he is  drunk...  Oh dear.

Not playpunching.
Well, duh. He's drunk and he's getting aggressive when she's clearly not comfortable with the situation. Faye did absolutely the right thing on this one.

The possible repercussions of this, though, worry me. Marten officially ventured into the realm of Doing Something Creepy this time, and sure, he was drunk, but the fact remains that he crossed the line from being a nice guy to being a Nice Guy. That stands to potentially cause... problems, maybe not on a #500 level, but enough to kick the current drama up another notch.

In other words, yeah; I'm with Boomslang.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #254 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:22 »

It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.

And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.

And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??

To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.

What the heck ?!?!?!?!??


You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys.

More reading here

Boomslang

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #255 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:22 »

It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??

You're either very much misinterpreting what I said, or quoting the wrong person.

You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys.
More reading here

There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 05:27 by Boomslang »
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #256 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:26 »

I can see Dora "accidentally" missing her first therapy appointment.
I don't. Remember Faye's threat????


Also, i have a hunch that Faye is going to come home and kick Marten's ass. Maybe it's crazyness talking, but just a hunch.
:psyduck: I knew it, i knew it, i knew it!

Great for Marten though, i think this is going to help him stand up for himself a little more.

Also, how long has it been that we have saw an act of violence towards Marten from Faye? ahh, good times.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #257 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:27 »

So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.
 :psyduck: (I hope I am using the duck correctly.)

I found this episode... not out of character for Marten.  On some level, he thinks the women in his life are using his niceness for their own advantage and not rewarding him for his good qualities.  Marten's stuck in a rut and he's lashing out at the people who he's populated his rut with (except Hanners - how can you lash out at Hanners?) and also trying to punish himself.

I've been dreading Faye returning to the apartment since Marten broke out the bourbon, because I thought something like this might unfold, although I never anticipated Marten being this brutally dickish.  Marten hitting on Faye the way he did is masochistic on a number of levels:
- he's sort of proving Dora right by throwing himself at Faye after their breakup (and also as a "F*ck you, I'll do what I want now" to Dora).
- he's earning himself another rejection (and physical violence).
- he's distancing himself from his best friend by punishing her for the failure of his relationship, and coming on to her when she's made it clear over and over again that she's not interested.  

I wonder if Faye will think that Marten actually does still have feelings for her and re-interpret recent events accordingly.  It doesn't look good for Marten, and now neither of them has a neutral party/best friend to help them process this.   :|
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #258 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:32 »

Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #259 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:38 »

Well ... not really true, he obviously has harddrive limits.

And a link to the cloud...
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #260 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:40 »

Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.

Marten's back to being the strip's Chew Toy. It wouldn't surprise me if all that happened to him and more.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #261 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:41 »

You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.
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tbones

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #262 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:41 »

So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.

Oh boy.... Forum rampage in 3....2....1
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #263 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:42 »

Here's exactly what I DON'T want to happen through all of this, though judging from what has been Marten's luck, it might.  His mom gets there, see's her boy's been hit by Faye, get's all up in arms and goes to "introduce (faye) to a whole new realm of pain and suffering."  Then finds out what Marten said.  More Marten hitting.  Please don't.

We got a phrase for that where I come from: hilarity ensues.

Ain't nothin' like a sock to the head to send a guy back to sobriety. 'Course, nobody said them uppercuts didn't come with no hangovers.
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ErrantCanadian

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #264 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:45 »

So I joined the forum solely to comment on this one episode.

Oh boy.... Forum rampage in 3....2....1

OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #265 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:51 »


You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys.
More reading here

There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.

I nominate the term "spineless dickheads", because, well, call things what they are. And we all know that the mental voice that tells us to do creepy passive-aggressive shit is spineless and dickheady, so...yeah.

I don't think Marten's unsalvageable though, and y'all folks may be overreacting just a tad. :P

EDIT: Fucking autocorrect. Fix'd.

You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.

Oh hey look it's This Argument Again! Ha ha WOO!
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 06:11 by Dr. ROFLPWN »
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snubnose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #266 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:53 »

Wow. He finally actually deserved her hitting him.

Don't be too pissed at him, Faye. Dude's in pain. Well, now he's really in pain, but you know what I mean.
Jupp, that is a first.



Did not handle what well? The punching? I have always hated when she punched Marten in earlier strips (NOT play punching, regardless of how she "intended" it and the fact that Marten put up with it--it would regularly leave serious bruises that lasted several days and were apparently painful, let alone the times he has indeed knocked him to the floor), but in this case I'd agree it was self-defense. And probably best for Marten to just end the night there, rather than running the risk of whatever else he might do.

Or did you mean the entire Marten situation? Because while she did not handle the lead-up, what with the sometime-flirting and the occasional taking-advantage of his attraction to her, she handled Marten's confession as well as one could be expected to. No person in the world owes it to another person to be romantically interested in them. Neither do they owe it to them to be in an appropriate state to be romantically receptive. Someone (let's say person X) can be not ready for a relationship when person A asks, but then be ready for a relationship with person B, and while that may not be "fair" that is not something done to person A, but simply the way things are. It has to do with person X, not person A. In other words: it's not about Marten.

Also, the way he brought up "my girlfriend dumped me" definitely sounds very dismissive of the actual value of his relationship with Dora. It makes it sound like he just wanted a girlfriend, any girlfriend, and basically saw Dora as the means of getting "there"--ie, her value to her was just her interchangeable role as "girlfriend" rather than as Dora, and now he's pissed that he's no longer in possession of "girlfriend," which is something he seems to feel entitled to for being a "nice guy" (as far as his words here--not saying he would put it that way if he were sober).  Obviously, the fact that he got to spend over a year in a stable relationship that gave him a lot of pleasure while Faye's situation was far less comfortable isn't entering his drunk mind here.
Puuuh. Good thing I'm apparently not the only one who remembers how awfully hard Faye hits ! Judging from some posts, many people here have completely forgotten about it.

I dont count it as self defense either. Marten is helpless. He would already collapse if she just pushed him a bit.

Instead she starts one of her beatings, which at this point is sadistic.

There is really no such thing as self defense against a helpless person. Thats like beating up a child "self defense". Self defense requires that someone is threatening your life or your health.

And yeah of course everything Marten is b-shit, I dont think anyone here would claim otherwise.



what the hell? I didn't think Marten would ever let that kind of thing happen, but, reading back, he sometimes got kinda really drunk, and didn't handle the situations... the best way.
I dont think that situation has much to do with this one.



And does this confession mean he just put up a happy face when Faye had her "relationship" with Sven? As far as I remember, he even defended her against Dora, but also mentioned his not being angry had something to do with the hot, hot Dora-sexin'.
Uh, how weird. So you really believe people who just poisoned their brains so large parts dont work any more are "confessing" things ?

I think Marten is stone drunk and unable to think clearly. He's definitely unable to think coherently about what he really wants and his approach to Faye lacks any logic whatsoever.

I consider the happy Marten back with Dora much, much more honest and being himself than the stone drunk and deeply depressed Marten right now.



Eh, I don't think it will be that hard. Faye's honest, she doesn't put up with that kind of behaviour, but she also knows that she owes Marten big time, and that he's in a real bad place now. She'll be there for him as she was for Dora, angry or not.
Agreed. There is no way Faye can possibly be suppressed by Marten. She's a strong woman, always has been, very likely even physically stronger than Marten.



You know, 1818 brings up an interesting point.

What if Dora was right about her insecurities?

Then again, this is Marten, and going with the flow of staying with Dora would've been the easier option that he probably would've taken...
Again, I think Marten in his drunk state is too confused to think straight - and copies Doras way of thinking even if he would never do that with his brain fully operational.



I'm highly tempted to just post a youtube link to M. Bison's "Yes! Yes!" video...but I don't think anyone does that sort of thing on these forums.

I'll just say I found this development highly entertaining and, at the same time, reasonable considering his situation and degree of inebriation. Pretty sure he'll regret it when he sobers up and pretty sure Faye will be understanding, cause she's been generally supportive throughout this whole ordeal.

Keep it up, Jeph.
I'm happy you think that. I think this is roughly the way things will develop.



You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys.

More reading here
Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.

The very moment he steps over a border for once, while being extremely drunk and being extremely depressed, you already are willing to throw him into the deepest pits of hell for that !??



I found this episode... not out of character for Marten.
Really ? I was hella surprised by this turn. Thats not the Marten I know.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #267 on: 15 Dec 2010, 05:54 »

OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

He's joking. It was a veiled reference to the last topic that closed where many new users posted comments that were considered abrasive to the forum's primary clique. You're fine.

Also,

You know, Faye is constantly threatening violence (sometimes committing violence) and it's always depicted as so adorable and she always gets a pass because "that's just Faye" or whatever. So when men are violent it's horrific and when women are violent it's cute? Seems kind of sexist and condescending to me.

Not sure where you've been, but a LOT of people had a problem with Faye's use of violence throughout the comic. This seemed pretty reasonable though, considering her issues and Marten being a bit of a dick. Also, if he really minded the light beatings, he probably wouldn't take them with a smile as he has throughout the strip.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 05:59 by someone1074 »
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #268 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:00 »

There's a serious terminology issue there, that I think causes a lot of problems. Many people who rant about Nice Guys say nice guys instead, and literal people will take that at face value, i.e. guys who are nice to other people. And that's definitely not what they mean. So the use of a new term really would be appropriate.

Maybe, rather than capitalizing it ala TV Tropes (yes, I know, that's not where the capitalization came from,) use quotation marks around nice. And, emphasize the quotation marks using air quotes and/or a mocking tone when saying it IRL.
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tbones

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #269 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:00 »

OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

No! You missunderstand me!
It's not that you posted something that'd make all the users get angry at you, but a few weeks ago, (when Marten and Dora broke up) there was a rampage in this forum, with hundreds, and i mean HUNDREDS of post starting with: "first time poster, i want to say that [.....]" and then someone denunced another guy 'cause he didn't like the opinion, and the thread got locked out.... A real mess.
What i said was merelly a joke refering that situation, i don't think that kind of mess can repeat it self... Right?

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
geez guys! :P
Warning - while you were typing 1 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Hey! Come on! Let me post! :psyduck:
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 06:03 by tbones »
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snubnose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #270 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:05 »

It's basically set in stone that Faye is over Marten and is really, truly with Angus. The problem is, if her now-single roommate is going to sexually harass her when he gets drunk (and Marten will probably get drunk more often now that Dora's not giving him a reason not to) then it's going to be very uncomfortable living with him. [...]
WHAT. THE. FREAKING. HECK ?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!
Marten has been the super-nice guy for ALL of the comic.
And he violates it ONCE. While being drunk. Immediately after the breakup with his girlfriend.
And INSTANTLY there are people assume he will do that ALWAYS from now on ?!?!??
To FAYE, who can defend herself extremely well ? She's probably even physically stronger than Marten.
What the heck ?!?!?!?!??

You're either very much misinterpreting what I said, or quoting the wrong person.
Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?

Also you said he would behave exactly like he does right now ... again, why would you think that ? Plus that would be quite unhealthy for him. Its a running gag of the comic how physically weak Marten is. While Faye is portrayed being "a hell of a puncher", i.e. quite strong.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #271 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:07 »

OK, I've been reading this comic for like two years and lurking on the forum for the past month.  Bring it.

No! You missunderstand me!
It's not that you posted something that'd make all the users get angry at you, but a few weeks ago, (when Marten and Dora broke up) there was a rampage in this forum, with hundreds, and i mean HUNDREDS of post starting with: "first time poster, i want to say that [.....]" and then someone denunced another guy 'cause he didn't like the opinion, and the thread got locked out.... A real mess.
What i said was merelly a joke refering that situation, i don't think that kind of mess can repeat it self... Right?

Hehe, no, I got that there have been a lot of n00bs and forum drama recently.  No problem.

I would not be surprised if there were a lot of comments from new and old posters alike today... this comic made me go "GAH WTF" even more than the Marten/Dora breakup.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #272 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:07 »

You might want to read up on the difference between guys that are genuinely nice and Nice Guys.

More reading here
Marten has been a real nice guy for most of the comic.

The very moment he steps over a border for once, while being extremely drunk and being extremely depressed, you already are willing to throw him into the deepest pits of hell for that !??

Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #273 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:12 »

Don't worry Odin, Marten's about to be thoroughly punished for his mistakes and issues. Chew Toy, remember? There will be no forgiveness or any other kind of break for him.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #274 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:17 »

I can't understand why people are considering Marten to be a jerk and in the wrong. Obviously what he said was dickish, but I mean, come on, for 1817 pages, the guy has had to put up with other people's shit while no one really gave a damn about his own. The crack is in the dam now and it's only a matter of time before the thing completely collapses.

Look at it from his perspective, just over 24 hours beforehand he was in a loving, though slightly bumpy, relationship with an amazing woman (to him), which made the fact that he had a going-nowhere band and a dead end job that much more bearable, in general made him that happier.

Now, what does he have? An ex-girlfriend whose own issues sabotaged the relationship. A best friend, who in all fairness he has bent over backwards to help, from allowing her to move in, to moving to a bigger place, supporting her with her father's suicide and telling her to go with a guy who can be great for her. His other friends include a girl who would make Freud jump with glee, a guy who until recently had a revolving door leading to his bedroom and a lesbian, who, on numerous occassions admitted she would like to sleep with Dora. Oh and we can't forget the douchebag of a robot whose sole purpose seems to be kicking people when they are at their emotional bottom.

For the whole day he has had people telling him to man up, or he'll be alright, not to mention his world famous, dominatrix mother invited herself to town. Only, he doesn't need any of that, mainly because the three people he had spoken to have had next to no experience about meaningful romantic relationships and thus have no idea about what the hell he is going through. His heart has been ripped out and shoved into a blender.

Is it any wonder then that Marten has drunk an entire bottle of bourbon by himself? There are only two other characters in the strip that have done the same, and one of them has just knocked him to the ground.

Yes, Marten has just been dickish, but at the same time, he has every right to be.  The majority of his friends are in relationships and are happy. Even the ones who arenít in a relationship are alright. He was one of them the day before, and now he has nothing. So if he canít be happy, why the fuck should they?

The thing about alcohol is that it allows us to air what we really think about the world, it breaks down the walls that we build, even if what we are walling up is the truth. We wall it up because we know that if it would make our world much crappier. We can be content with a lie or a half truth, but when weíre drunk, that doesnít work, nor should it. Marten has had to put up with more than his fair share of shit from people, most of it from Faye. He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing. Sure, Sven offered to hang out with himÖ.and in the same breath, suggested girls for rebound sex. Tai told him that he is healthier without the caffeine and baked goods, completely missing out on the fact that Marten misses Dora, and then told him to stop being a dick. Hanners gave him back the worry hat, and in doing so, treated him like a kid who stubbed his toe. But what really gets him, is that his best friend, the girl he has helped with all her problems, has fucked off and left him alone while she made out with her new boyfriend. Now that she decided to return home, Faye has been told a few home truths, and doesnít like it and acted in a way which only confirms it.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like Iíve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesnít deserve to act like one.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 06:22 by TheEvilDog »
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #275 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:18 »

POW! Bangzoom! RIGHT in the KISSAH!

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #276 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:18 »

Uh. You said Marten will get drunk now on a regular basis ... why would you think that ?

I didn't say he'd get drunk on a regular basis. But he did drink somewhat regularly previously, and clearly, he's using alcohol to help him avoid dealing with everything. So it does stand to reason that this is not the last time he will get drunk before this all gets resolved.

Seriously, if you expect me to clarify everything I post in exactly the manner above, I'll be writing novels. Just try and not interpret everything I say in the worst possible manner, eh? It's only polite.

Quote
Also you said he would behave exactly like he does right now ... again, why would you think that ? Plus that would be quite unhealthy for him. Its a running gag of the comic how physically weak Marten is. While Faye is portrayed being "a hell of a puncher", i.e. quite strong.

I was talking about Faye's being nervous about him acting the same EVEN ONCE.

And seriously, your continued diatribe on Faye's physical superiority is not only missing the point, it's starting to get annoying in it's degree of doing so.

Faye is still somewhat emotionally fragile. She gets embarrassed and creeped out very easily. She reacts by punching, yeah, but that doesn't actually solve the problem, and it certainly doesn't mean it didn't bother her. What Marten did just now is shake up Faye's perception of Marten's friendship. I'm sure what he said hurt her deep down.

And as far as him being drunk, if you can still get up and talk intelligibly, you're responsible for what you say. I've said a number of things I regret, but while I wouldn't have said them sober, I'm not going to blame the 'demon rum' for making me think them up in the first place.
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ElvisRevenge

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #277 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:20 »

I'm so sad and scared now. I hope Marten apologizes (or forgets) and Faye forgives him.

Man this put a damper on my whole day.



EDIT: Also, I think TheEvilDog summarized my feelings about Marten's feelings/drunkeness pretty well.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 06:22 by ElvisRevenge »
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gathayah

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #278 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:24 »

One the one hand, I've always been a believer of the idea that drunk words are sober thoughts. So Marten could very well just be an asshole. On the other hand, Marten could have very well just been spouting nonsense because he's hurt and wants everyone else to hurt like he does. Regardless, what he said was totally out of line. Faye hitting him was definitely impulsive and perhaps not the best of reactions, but she was definitely in the right putting him in his place.

I'm not going to judge Marten based on this just yet. He'll have the chance to redeem himself once he sobers up.
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #279 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:24 »

Boomslang, your post was strongly worded though. You're assuming that a) He'll get drunk much more often and b) He'll sexually harass Faye more often than not when he does so.

I mean...how else would one interpret that? It's a bit of a reach in my opinion. I feel like this strip was meant to show a pretty dramatic occurrence. I'd be genuinely surprised if this became the common state of things, as you're suggesting.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 06:26 by someone1074 »
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #280 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:25 »

And note, if this was the darkest point, as Jeph said, then things should start to improve from here, however slowly - right?

...We can only hope.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #281 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:36 »

Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.

The debate over whether he's "nice" or nice is a separate issue, but your version of events doesn't quite match up with what actually happened, at least according to Marten.

Vicky had started talking about moving back to MA, and was obviously not happy with the idea of a long distance relationship.(1)

Eventually, she said that the long distance relationship wouldn't work. Therefore, he decided to move.(2)

She was a little uncomfortable with the idea, and she claimed to feel that she was forcing Marten to give up his life,(3) but according to Marten, things did start off good, until she slowly started avoiding him, and then broke it off.(4)

While she may have wanted to end things all along, she didn't make that clear, when Marten found an idea that would work.

Granted, this is from Marten's point of view, he may be distorting events, but still...

1: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=254
2: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=255
3: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=256
4: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=257
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ErrantCanadian

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #282 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:36 »

But what really gets him, is that his best friend, the girl he has helped with all her problems, has fucked off and left him alone while she made out with her new boyfriend. Now that she decided to return home, Faye has been told a few home truths, and doesnít like it and acted in a way which only confirms it.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like Iíve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesnít deserve to act like one.

I don't think that's true.  For the past few strips, his friends have been all over, spending time with him, helping him deal, listening to him and comforting him in their own way.  Just about every main character has sided with him in the breakup.  Faye just cut her time with Angus short so she could be there for Marten.  And what Marten was saying to her isn't "truths", it's a warped version of reality in which he deserves romantic companionship as a reward for his attention to women, instead of valuing the friendship on its own terms.  As any woman will tell you, that's not attractive, it's the sure sign of a "Nice Guy".

And nobody "deserves" to act like a dick.  We can be selfish, sure, but lashing out at loved ones and hurting them to salve our own pain is not cool.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #283 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:43 »

Where is Faye's bra?

Stuck in the folds of the couch.    - 23 (18.9%)
Suddenly transported onto Marigold.    - 9 (7.4%)
Momo's got it.    - 14 (11.5%)
Momo stole it for Pintsize.    - 15 (12.3%)
Momo stole it for Winslow    - 4 (3.3%)
Yelling Bird has it!    - 11 (9%)
Angus took it and hid it in his Hammerspace Bag.    - 4 (3.3%)
Faye forgot to wear one tonight.    - 7 (5.7%)
Dora has it. (Don't ask.)    - 4 (3.3%)
The Beast of Bourbon has it!    - 8 (6.6%)
Unknown Kleptomaniac rampaging through NoHo!    - 2 (1.6%)
Tai has it.    - 3 (2.5%)
Waffles!    - 18 (14.8%)

Total Voters: 122
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adrialexi

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #284 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:46 »

I think that one of the things that may be confusing about how people are reacting to Marten and Faye's interaction here is our own past experiences. For example, I have been Faye in that basic situation and had a good friend I had known for *10* years do roughly the same thing only I wasn't able to knock him out. It didn't work out well for me because a drunk "Nice Guy" can be a truly bad person. While I don't think Marten is like that, Faye has to have considered it at least subconsciously and it may make her cautious around him even if she appears to have forgiven him.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #285 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:47 »

At this point Marten has now hit the nadir of the post-relationship slump (hopefully) and now he gets to start picking himself up and doning what needs to be done - apologizing to the people he's been a dick to, thanking his friends (including Faye, cause it's a good friend that gives you the smack you need, even if you don't know you need it at the time) and getting on with life.  
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someone1074

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #286 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:51 »

Yes, Marten has just been dickish, but at the same time, he has every right to be.  

Nope.

So if he canít be happy, why the fuck should they?

And oh ho ho ho...certainly not.

He has done it with a smile on his face and offered a shoulder for friends to lean on. And now, when he needs one for himself, he finds nothing.

And then you contradict yourself by providing great examples of people trying to help him. What exactly are they supposed to do, suck his dick? They're being there for him in ways that are well within their character. Also, keep in mind that Faye has already made some effort to repair the ruined relationship (be it friendship or more) by getting Dora the help she needs. At this time, Faye's done the most to help Marten.

At a time when Marten needed his friends, there is no one around to comfort him. So like Iíve said, yes, Marten is being a dick, but damn it if he doesnít deserve to act like one.

Absolutely not, as mentioned above. Dealing with this better would show strength of character. While his actions are completely understandable and many of us should be able to sympathize with him...it doesn't make him right in this. Lashing out at your closest friends and being self-destructive? Hard to say that it's ever 'right' or 'deserved' IMO.

Now if you just meant that his actions are understandable, then I withdraw most of my statements.
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Irenfrea

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #287 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:51 »

QC got back to the basics! (Faye punching Marten)

Now seriously, I bet that he's getting a serious lecture from the Grand Bitch (aka Mrs. Veronica Reed)
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #288 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:52 »

Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.

Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #289 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:54 »

I honestly think EvilDog brought up some good points here. It's really easy to say that Marten was a dick and in the same situation we'd all do the right thing, but that ain't realistic and it ain't human. The fact of the matter is that Marten has bottled up a lot of shit lately, to add to the list EvilDog started, even when Marten was happy with his girlfriend, he still had to defend his honor from her anxieties, when he had done nothing to warrant suspicion. That gets really insulting after a while.

As for Faye, from his point of view, which is probably half borboun induced, but also half completely sober bitterness, Faye turned him down cuz of her crazy, fucked up past, and it seriously upset him. The only thing that kept that from being worse is that Dora moved in on him, he already liked her, if not quite the way Dora had through the entire story arc, and she helped him move on from Fae by being there for him. Now Dora's dumped him on his ass, largely due to her anxieties. Where did those anxieties come from?

Her crazy, fucked up past.

And Marten's tired of being tossed into the shitter because of things he has never done or never would, but now he has to put up with what Tai does: being surrounded by happy couples while he's alone, dumped on his ass, and seriously hurt because of it. Only there's one really important difference between them. To our current knowledge, Tai has never really had the chance to get involved with someone she had a genuine thing for, so she's never really lost a close relationship. Marten has.

If we count Faye, twice.

So ultimately Marten's dealing not just with being alone, but with a severe sense of loss, and considering Marten hasn't had the best luck in finding a woman (in his only real relationship, Dora came to him), there's gotta be that feeling that there's no end in sight, and as EvlDog mentioned, Marten has very little other compensation in life. At this current stage, neither Marten's emotional life, or practical life, show any signs of improvement, where everywhere else people are soaring up to better things somehow.
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jk9000

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #290 on: 15 Dec 2010, 06:56 »

You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #291 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:00 »

You know, this might be just me, but decking a drunk guy seems about seven times more dickish than saying irrational and hurtful things while drunk. Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.
Yeah, attempted sexual assault nullifies all that. I hope Angus kicks his ass too.
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tbones

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #292 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:00 »

OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #293 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:03 »

Not saying Marten isn't being an ass, but Faye dealt with this is pretty much the worst possible way.

Eh, it's Faye. She punches people. That's part of her character.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #294 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:07 »

Marten stepped over the border when he moved across the country to follow a girl that had already broken up with him (but didn't have the spine herself to tell him to fuck off until after a week of continuous phone calls), he's always been a "Nice" guy, not a truly nice guy. I've posted much more in-depth explanations than this in other threads, so do some more reading on the forums or read the comic archive again and refresh your memory, either way, I'm right on this one and you're either easily distracted and forgot all of the things that Marten has done over the course of the comic or a troll.

Now wait, Vicky used moving back East as a pretext for breaking up with Marten, and he (naively) called her bluff.  Do you really think that if she'd been straight with him in the first place rather than pretending that an otherwise-good-thing was only ending because of the long-distance, or coming clean about her (in fairness, likely in part to spare Marty's feelings) BS before he moved to Boston that Marty would have still followed her?

Marten's BS usually runs much more towards cluelessness or denial than dickery.
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Tuen

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #295 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:07 »

Anyone else notice that Faye made an incorrect fist in this comic?  (Correct = thumb curled over knuckles.  Incorrect = in comic #1818.  That'll get your thumb broken if it catches on cloth or anything else).

The interesting thing is that it's not consistent with her previous punches.  
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=88
http://questionablecontent.net./view.php?comic=244
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=305
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=378
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=579

Anyways.  Just something I noticed, since fists and hitting are hobby related for me.  Don't mind the nit-picking :-)

Tai and Dora get A+'s for fist making as well.  :-D
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=511
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=773

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #296 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:10 »

I disagree.

Faye's dished out the due retribution, if perhaps to excess, and stopped Marten digging himself any deeper. Far less guilt for Marten to feel at what is already a low point in his life and gratitude that Faye didn't let him make it any worse.

Plus it's more realistic than if everyone is really nice to each other all the time about everything. This isn't an episode of Neighbours after all. From time to time people get a bit punchy.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #297 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:12 »

OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

I think I'm missing some kind of deep insider secret here. If we get too many new members are the older ones sacrificed to Tezcatlipoca or something?

 :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #298 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:14 »


Some would disagree, Tuen.

"What doesnít matter much at all is the position of the thumb [so long as it's not clenched inside the fist, obviously]. Itís actually easier to make a proper fist using the fist formation found in such styles as Isshin Ryu, in which the thumb tip is pressed against the fold of the second knuckle of the forefinger. "

Source: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=510
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #299 on: 15 Dec 2010, 07:15 »

OK, at least 3 or 4 "long readers, first time poster"
...
It MAY be a good a idea to shut the registration off...

Just sayin'.

As a newbie, I have to ask, what's wrong with new people coming in to discuss the current events?
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