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Poll

The Moment Of The Week (Yeah, we're doing it again):

Caring Hannelore cares!
- 9 (7.6%)
"You're a terrible influence, alcohol-induced hallucination."
- 18 (15.1%)
Where's Faye's Bra?
- 7 (5.9%)
Some kind of creepy trophy...
- 1 (0.8%)
Sheer Intensity of Makeouts?
- 4 (3.4%)
Quantum Tunnelling effect
- 9 (7.6%)
Please tell me you did not drink that entire bottle
- 0 (0%)
That was a terrible idea.
- 3 (2.5%)
At least ONE of us isn't gonna remember this in the morning.
- 15 (12.6%)
Did I say anything stupid last night? No, you were fine.
- 6 (5%)
OWLS. Owls? OWLS.
- 38 (31.9%)
So, do you want me to kill Dora for you?
- 6 (5%)
Love you too, mom.
- 3 (2.5%)

Total Members Voted: 102


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Author Topic: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)  (Read 151961 times)

ErrantCanadian

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #400 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:42 »

I agree Geoffthellama, some people are taking this way too far, its like they want the cops called on either of them.  Like when a lawyer makes his client wear bandages and a sling for a harmless scrape.

COSIGN.  :psyduck:

QC Criminality Roundup:
- Marten doesn't have irreversible brain damage or the need for a full body cast after being shoved aside or punched by Faye.  Or this would be a very different comic starting tomorrow.  Faye does not need to be taken away in cuffs on an assault charge.
- Marten has not touched Faye in any no-no places.  He came on to her in a highly douchey fashion and she was all, "Cuddle my sweet gentle fist."  It's bad in terms of their relationship and boundaries, but Marten is not a sex offender.
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LeeC

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #401 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:43 »

This looks like a job for Billy!
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The Seldom Killer

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #402 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:44 »

Moving away from a disturbing and occaisionally obtuse autopsy, for the current poll I've voted Other. I could wander off on a wild tangent as to what could happen, but I'll leave that to say that while I don't think it'll happen, I'm really rooting for Hannelore meets Mum. I suspect that those voting for hungover apologies to Faye are a little preemptive. They'll happen but not tomorrow.
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cyro

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #403 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:45 »

And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.

Actually I think what he's doing is the opposite of rational. Perfectly understandable and emotionally driven but certainly not rational.
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azurite

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #404 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:46 »

2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move.  I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there.  He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat?  At least that's what might have been going through her head.  Hell, it would have been going through mine.

Also, homicide?  Really?  Really?

In case we are miscommunicating: Homicide = extreme/NOT justified, is what I meant; a number of posts seem to be saying that even punching him was too extreme.

What you say here is what I'm getting at. None of that was Marten-like behavior; we've seen him drunk before, yeah, but not bitter and aggressive drunk. Even without a crotch grab, the way he was encroaching on her space and the stuff he was slurring at her was abusive, disrespectful, and at risk of putting anyone's safety instincts on red alert.

If you're someone who knows how to protect herself, it's going to be a minute or two before "aww, come on, it's just MARTEN" catches up with GET AWAY FROM ME POW FIST. And, you know, without getting into personal history or experiences I've heard from friends who talked themselves out of their instincts, sometimes "it's just MARTEN" is a thought that would've been better to come second. Faye couldn't know where that was going to stop and she protected herself. So yeah, I'm at least giving her a "I don't know that I would've done that differently." No demonization of Faye here. I appreciate that not everyone agrees with me, and there's little I can say to dissuade them from feeling Faye is totally in the wrong. That's fine. I'll still read you.  :-)

Marten decided to drink like that, fragile indie physique or no. I actually called "Marten will get too drunk, Faye will come home, Marten will make a pass at her, Faye will deck him" as soon as I saw that bottle come out. Did Marten think of that? No. Was Marten thinking about anything other than "I'm gonna get DRUNK?" Kinda doubt it. Actions have consequences. In reality, sometimes way more intense consequences than seem fair, should an act of self-defense sustain more damage than a black eye. This is QC, not reality, so I doubt anyone will end up dead or in prison.
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AshiHalfangel

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #405 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:54 »

Oh, hey guys...lets just overreact once again over something that was meant to be funny. Marten was being a jerk...whether or not he deserved a punch, I don't know. But he did deserve something. Sometimes a nice smack around is what makes him wake up a bit and realize that life doesn't end with Dora. And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass. If that was the case, then he did deserve it. But I rather not overanalyze this and I'm not trying to be a troll. But Jesus, people...is it so hard to ask to just enjoy the webcomic for what it is?
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cyro

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #406 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:59 »

Oh, hey guys...lets just overreact once again over something that was meant to be funny. Marten was being a jerk...whether or not he deserved a punch, I don't know. But he did deserve something. Sometimes a nice smack around is what makes him wake up a bit and realize that life doesn't end with Dora. And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass. If that was the case, then he did deserve it. But I rather not overanalyze this and I'm not trying to be a troll. But Jesus, people...is it so hard to ask to just enjoy the webcomic for what it is?

Taking the comic and blowing it out of all proportion is half the fun here.

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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #407 on: 15 Dec 2010, 11:59 »

2) Even without a crotch grab, responding to a gentle shove and "you're being a dick" with "Oh yeah? That's what you like" doesn't indicate that is an individual who is going to take no for an answer. At that point, whatever you need to do to disable the guy from pushing the issue further, relative to the situation. A slap is justified. Shoving him away is justified. Immediately leaving the apartment is justified. Knocking him out is justified. Punching him more than once would've been extreme. Beating on him more than necessary to disable further advances would've been extreme. Homicide, that would've been extreme.

Jumping straight from "hand on his sternum" to "knocking him out" (if that is how it went) is not at all justified. She escalated straight to "risking brain damage or death" level of violence against somebody whose "frail indie-rock physique" is barely strong enough to hold up an unconscious Hanners. His actions clearly warranted a physical response at that point, but lets not give Faye a pass here. She's no delicate flower; she's hands-down the toughest kid on the block.


Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

It wasn't just how he was touching her, it was everything he was saying in tandem with making the move.  I'm more than willing to accept that Faye can be a bully, but Marten hit Creep Factor 5 right there.  He was already demonstrating behavior she wasn't familiar with - who the hell knows what else he was going to pull out of his magic hat?  At least that's what might have been going through her head.  Hell, it would have been going through mine.

Also, homicide?  Really?  Really?

In case we are miscommunicating: Homicide = extreme/NOT justified, is what I meant; a number of posts seem to be saying that even punching him was too extreme.

Oh, my comment was directed at Laminator X*.  Pretty sure we're in agreement here.

*EDIT TO FIX NAME BECAUSE I FAIL
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StevenC

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #408 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:00 »

And who knows...you don't know where Marten's hands were. For all you know he could've undone his pants or had his hands groping her ass.

Agreeing with you on anything else, but seriously, why is anyone just thinking about the worst after admitting that we can not see what his hands were doing? He could have also: held his stomach, searched for something in his pocket, just have his arm there in a weird way because Jeph didn't care for what his arm looks like because it is mostly off panel anyway.


Also sorry for registering and writing. Don't hit me, please.
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ross_teneyck

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #409 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:00 »

It's a good thing Marten lives in a comic strip.  If he were a real-life dude, downing an entire bottle of hard liquor by himself goes past "This is an unhealthy way of dealing with your problems" to "Seriously, you might die."  Also, being punched hard enough to lose consciousness is a great way to get brain damage.  Luckily for him, he does live in a comic strip, so all of that is nothing more than humorous exaggeration.

Or, given the context, not humorous per se, but for the dr4maz.

Anyway, it seems to me that this indicates that while Dora has issues with her anxieties and insecurities, the particular insecurity re: Marten's feelings for Faye was not completely unfounded.  Which, really, I think they all knew:  he spent months of QC-time wanting her, and you don't just turn that off like a faucet.  But then warning blatant gender-based stereotyping approaching guys in general are often known to lust after most any attractive person-of-an-attracting-gender they know, and most guys manage to remain faithful to their partners anyway; so Marten was presumably sincere in his protestations of being committed to Dora.  That doesn't mean that he doesn't still have feelings for Faye -- as shown here, unfortunately in the form of drunken come-ons.

Anyway, in this particular case, Marten is being an asshole, with only the tenuous excuse of being miserable and drunk, and Faye is being violent, but by the standards of the QC-verse not out of proportion to the offense.  My guess is that in the morning they'll forgive each other the particular offenses, and the main fallout from this will be, "What did Marten's drunken confession indicate about what he's really feeling?"
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #410 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:00 »

my 'toughness heirarchy' for the main characters goes Dora-> Faye

But we've seen Faye punch Dora, remember; though I guess Dora punched Faye harder..
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 12:04 by pwhodges »
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Rusty

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #411 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:03 »

.....friday begins with marten in the hospital, faye in the waiting room going "what did i do?"


ends with Ms. Reed bursting in going "WTF did you do to my son?"

oh snap :psyduck:
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cyro

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #412 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:06 »

Tomorrow: Roombas!
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tHEfOOL

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #413 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:06 »

The Audience wouldn't care for very long either, we're very fickle people for the most part when it comes to this stuff (does anyone miss the guy that owned the Linux AnthroPC, for example?).

we never met the guy who owned neckbeard, we just knew the computer
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PureLionHeart

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #414 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:08 »

The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #415 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:09 »

The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.
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PureLionHeart

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #416 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:13 »

The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.
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MillionDollar Belt Sander

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #417 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:24 »

Actually the above arc sounds hilarious in a VERY SICK way.     :-D


ANYWAY...

Today's strip reminds me of an unfortunate incident in my past.   Someone stone cold knocked me out to stop me from making an ass of myself... and it's a good thing she did too.   

*shakes head*   Rather not talk about it but just want to point out that it does happen in Real (not QC) Life.
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azurite

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #418 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:26 »

The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!
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StevenC

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #419 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:27 »

The next strip will obviously start with Faye and Pintsize around a tub filled with Lime, the former having a mental breakdown and muttered "Daddy" to herself, while the latter makes inappropriate jokes and groans that Marten just cost his whole supply of the stuff.

Shenanigans. Pintsize already has his kidneys up for sale online.

Which Hanners will buy with the logic that it's always smart to have extras. Hilarity ensues.

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

But she already has the blood sample she needed!
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PureLionHeart

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #420 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:39 »

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

I was going to say that, but she very specifically shot that option down previously with SCIENCE!
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hannahsaurusrex

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #421 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:43 »

One: Don't really think either character was out of bounds here.

Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder. But then that might also mean that over the comic there's some really screwed up sex lives.

I really, really liked this comic, it gave me some closure. I don't know which exact issue was brought to light, (breakup, UST, Marten's character) but it gave me an answer to an unknown question (42!). A drunken, violent, cryptic answer.

EDIT: misspelled "cryptic"
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shiroihikari

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #422 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:44 »

I understand why Marten said what he said but I think Faye totally did the right thing by knocking him the fuck out.  I don't care if it is "just Marten", he's clearly not himself right now, and better safe than sorry.
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charybdis

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #423 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:45 »

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.  

Christ on a crutch. I haven't even started.
Waded through most of the shitstorm like an idiot, gave up on page 8, but I had to say this seems fairly realistic.

Marten has just had the drunken realization that his life is and has been falling apart at the seams. He is having what he believes to be a well-deserved wallow in misery because it makes a person feel better in a twisted, weird way.

Coming on to Faye was an extension of this in a couple ways, mostly in the "misery loves company", and the fact that in a way, she's part of the problem.

I have done this. Not triggered by a romantic falling-out, but general "Fuck it, my life is shit."
My best friend's response was a hefty (verbal) punch in the kisser, (Thankfully only verbal. He's built like a bear and could do some serious damage), and it had the effect of snapping me out of it, back into my normal train of thought with the realization of "Okay, this wasn't helping anything. Uhm, thanks for smacking me back to reality? Sorry I was a bitch?"  :psyduck:

I'm wagering it'll have the same effect on Marten. Yes, he was a dick. Maybe Faye was going a bit overboard in "decking" him (I think she just shoved him off and he hit the floor out of alcohol-filled joints before she moved to her muay thai stance in case of further harassment) but it may have been just what the doctor ordered to get him out of a nasty downward spiral. Worked for me  :-D

Warning - while you were reading 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Good Lord.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #424 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:48 »

WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!
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tomart

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #425 on: 15 Dec 2010, 12:55 »

The problem is that what he said was more true than false.  And, not to sound like an apologist, but wouldn't Faye need to apologize for, I dunno, knocking marten out?  I don't know about your circle of friends, but violence is worse than words.

Sorry, but given the state he's in, and the whole background they share, what he said does NOT seem all that out of line to me.   And, assuming she punched him as hard as it looks - AGAIN!!!!! (how many times is it, now? and again WITHOUT much justification* - he's not the kind of guy who would ever do what she's defending against!)  

The "selfish two-year-old that lurks in us all"  is a fair description of Faye's Marten-punching. Go back and look at them all - he never did anything deserving the painful, brutal attacks that left real bruises which he endured the whole time he was infatuated and patiently waiting for her.

* given this level of violence to her docile, muddled best friend, what measure of brutality does she reserve for a potential rapist?  Castration?  No, she just threatened Angus with that, for a trivial offense.  Probably torture, death, hanging, poisoning, drowning, castration, disembowelment, defenestration, AND decapitation.   All at once.  


Edit:  I am sorry for those of you who fear, or have suffered actual assault; my main point is that This is MARTEN Here!  He's the good, decent person at the center of QC, and I don't see him EVER doing the creepy, abusive, violent things that can happen in RL.  Women don't have to protect themselves from Marten Reed. 
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 14:52 by tomart »
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #426 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:04 »


Taking the comic and blowing it out of all proportion is half the fun here.


Aint this the truth.  :-D

Seriously talking, WTF?? This just keeps getting more and more miserable (and, i admit, SO interesting). I'd never thought Marten would succumb to being that kind of dick, drunk or not. But on the other hand, Fayes reaction was quite extreme. Sure, Marten DID deserve some good ol' smacking for being Creepy & Quite Offensive, but still... KO with one blow (and presumably with some muay thai strike) was kinda steep. (thou i admit that it might have been just a combo-KO from a bourbon & punch, cos as we've seen, Marten aint the guy who could chug down a whole bottle with ease)

For my prediction of the near future, it'll hold apologies from both parties (Marten way more than Faye, but still, I think either of em is happy, what happened..). Im having quite hard time believing that Martens streak of bad luck would transform him to Creepy Scumbag or Faye thinking "fuck this and fuck him". But the dude WILL have quite awful case of hangover (AND bruising, both mental and physical  :-D  :-D ), so i think hijinks will ensue. (or Jeph will shock us with even more depressing storyarc, just to mess with the bearhat legion).


And NO, i DONT think Faye will tell about the nights shenanigans to ANYONE.
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azurite

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #427 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:04 »

I think we might be missing the obvious "then Hanners can CLONE him," perhaps accidentally, perhaps multiple times, so everyone can have a Marten of their very own, to do whatever they want with, be it enacting anime or whathaveyou. Hilarity definitely ensues!

I was going to say that, but she very specifically shot that option down previously with SCIENCE!

At least as far as we know... who knows what she keeps in that off-site storage locker of hers...  :evil:

Why is it so fun to talk about Hanners in this way? It is, I mean, it's very fun, but what exactly does that say about my personality?!
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azurite

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #428 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:12 »


And NO, i DONT think Faye will tell about the nights shenanigans to ANYONE.

Ehh, I don't think so either, but I'm not going to blame her if she's shaken up and actually does need to talk to someone about her best friend's transformation into Mr. Creepball Hyde. Given her options, her therapist would be the most plausible and responsible, though her boyfriend is most readily available. Kind of hoping we don't go there, because it might make Angus a little less mature about the conversation he and Faye had earlier, potentially make this depressing situation even more depressing. Or hilarious, depending on how you feel about drunken breakup drama.
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sitnspin

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #429 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:19 »

As a survivor of more than one sexual assault, I would have reacted just as violently as Faye to a drunken male friend attempting to grab me and force a kiss. Survival instincts. I may or may not forgive him later, taking the booze and emotional state into account, but the fight-or-flight instinctual reaction would be the same.  Marten deserved a physical reaction. Faye's reaction may have been more violent than was necessary when viewed in purely logical hindsight, but when that sort of situation is occurring, the will to survive overrides all of that and expecting her to only apply the minimum necessary amount of force is unfair and unrealistic.
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StevenC

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #430 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:26 »

Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.

Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."

Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #431 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:54 »

Two: Isn't there a saying that goes "sometimes what people take seriously are hilarious, and what people think of as a joke should be taken seriously?" For all you "he was just kidding and drunk!" that's something to ponder.

Of course that could be turned around to those who say "Sexual assault!" "grabbed her crotch with the hand that is far outside the panel" or "I can see stuff happening in 4 still images that totally show that he is trying to grope and force kiss her" people. So, it equals out and we should just say "Let's see what will happen next time, first before jumping to conclusions."

Because Marten did say those "Come on, let's make out." lines more than once earlier in the comics, while not being drunk. As a joke of course. And there is really no telling from those few panels if he was being serious or just sarcastic when he said it, also she punched him out while he was still in mid-sentence. In my opinion he's just bitter/depressed/angry for reasons we all know and being sarcastic at the end there. "Yeah, you couldn't fall in love with me but you fucked that womanizer and the guy who pissed you off every day in COD is your boyfriend now. You REALLY like the assholes. So now I am one too. We should totally make out." That + drunk = looks worse than he might have intended and you know you don't think much about consequences when drunk.

Right.  And Faye judged the situation based on how it looked, since I'm guessing (unless Jeph's really going to give us a plot twist later) that Faye is not psychic and cannot read Marten's mind.  :psyduck:

He grabbed her crotch?
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Mustakyy

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #432 on: 15 Dec 2010, 13:57 »


Ehh, I don't think so either, but I'm not going to blame her if she's shaken up and actually does need to talk to someone about her best friend's transformation into Mr. Creepball Hyde. Given her options, her therapist would be the most plausible and responsible, though her boyfriend is most readily available. Kind of hoping we don't go there, because it might make Angus a little less mature about the conversation he and Faye had earlier, potentially make this depressing situation even more depressing. Or hilarious, depending on how you feel about drunken breakup drama.

In the name of Old Ones, dont jinx it. If this gets more depressing, chances of one/multiple characters ending up dead/institutionalized go way up. Somehow, i have a vague memory, that QC used to have some kind of comedic effect, but that could be my lousy memory playing tricks on me.  :-P  (que the stupid "in the good ol' days"-jokes  :-D )

As a survivor of more than one sexual assault, I would have reacted just as violently as Faye to a drunken male friend attempting to grab me and force a kiss. Survival instincts. I may or may not forgive him later, taking the booze and emotional state into account, but the fight-or-flight instinctual reaction would be the same.  Marten deserved a physical reaction. Faye's reaction may have been more violent than was necessary when viewed in purely logical hindsight, but when that sort of situation is occurring, the will to survive overrides all of that and expecting her to only apply the minimum necessary amount of force is unfair and unrealistic.

Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:). Dont get me wrong, I think Marten got what was coming to him, because of the Drunken Creep-mode he was in. It just doesent make the situation less sad and crappy.  :-(


Hopefully, we'll see a bit more of positivity (thou my bets would go to the "Even moar sadness and miserable people"-option) in near future. We can always hope.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2010, 13:59 by Mustakyy »
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StevenC

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #433 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:02 »

Yeah, someone said his right arm looks like his hand is going for her crotch.

I say nothing against judging the situation on how it looked for her, and maybe knocking him out really was the best course of action there before he really tried anything funny. But still the fact that he is pictured as really weak and skinny (and drunk which lowers his balance and everything) while she is rather strong leaves a bitter aftertaste there.
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azurite

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #434 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:06 »

He grabbed her crotch?

I suggested it might be what's happening out of frame in #3, but that was relying too much on my own conjecture in making the point that Faye had reason to freak out, so I'm redacting it. His hand is nowhere near either of their crotches. If he's reaching for her side to pull her close--even his hand is just hanging there in empty air, everything I need to support her throwing a punch is in-frame. Most of it is words, too.

Actually kind of glad she disabled his advances so quickly and that there is apparently so much room for debate, because the strip it would've taken to convince everyone she was totally within bounds wouldn't have been very QC-like and might have given me nightmares.
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hannahsaurusrex

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #435 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:07 »

Geoffthellama, I enjoy the monocle look much more than the Bill Haverchuck
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The Duke

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #436 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:18 »

This looks like a job for Billy!

That video is not available in my country (Canada).
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #437 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:33 »

WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!

Today's comic was bound to generate a lot of discussion, and it did.  And nearly all of it has been pretty much to the point, thoughtful, often founded in personal experience, etc.  Some "over imaginative" ideas have popped up, but have been let drop, and only a couple of those would have spurred me into moderatorial action if they had been taken further.  I must admit, I had expected a harder day!
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MillionDollar Belt Sander

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #438 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:41 »

WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIVE OF THE OP OF THIS THREAD!

Today's comic was bound to generate a lot of discussion, and it did.  And nearly all of it has been pretty much to the point, thoughtful, often founded in personal experience, etc.  Some "over imaginative" ideas have popped up, but have been let drop, and only a couple of those would have spurred me into moderatorial action if they had been taken further.  I must admit, I had expected a harder day!


If you are really that bummed out I could make a crude remark about Hanners...      :-P
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CaptainFish

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #439 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:44 »

Wow, that stuff seems totally out of character for Marten. I always took his attitude at face value, but it seems like he was repressing some stuff.

I'm gonna go all deadliest warrior on this punch situation.

Faye isn't justified in punching a person she could've just pushed away. You guys are crazy. It just works really well as a way to end the night without him having any responses after.

I dunno if you've ever had a drunk person lean on you, but they put all their weight on your body. You can just quickly take a step and they'll fall flat on their face.

She was probably too close to really deliver a good punch at that range anyway, so she probably had to back up a bit, and then throw it. It should've just been two hands on the chest and push into couch.
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Laminator_X

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #440 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:45 »

Can we please stop with the whole 'let's demonize overly-abusive Faye' thing now?  Please?

I'm usually not bothered by her shenanigans. They're like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown or Wile E Cyote getting hit by an anvil. If the perspective had followed Angus when she threw him clear across the bar, I'd fully have expected to see him with his tongue hanging out and little canaries circling his head rather than crumpled in a pile of broken bones and crying for an ambulance. That's fine, it's a comic.

Something about the seriousness of this situation though, kept it from feeling like cartoon bonks to me.  It seemed like violence.

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Oh, my comment was directed at Laminator X*.  Pretty sure we're in agreement here.

*EDIT TO FIX NAME BECAUSE I FAIL

I appreciate the effort.  My real name is even longer.  :-)
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The Pole

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #441 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:53 »

Don't you dare speak ill of precious Hanners. That being said I'm also sorry for fouling your forums with my newbish ways but I must say Martin is imploding between the bourbon and the snide/jerky/assholeish remarks in a way I wish I hadn't seen. Those of you who think he's at the bottom, the lowest of the low, may be holding onto hope. I can see it getting much worse as you can see a hand still up, so therefore he is still conscious. Either way I'm seeing a serious injury, alcohol poisoning/ concussion(from the fall not so much the punch) or a completely different Martin if hes still conscious and stands up for more.  :psyduck: just stay down Martin, stay down  :psyduck:
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Heliphyneau

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #442 on: 15 Dec 2010, 14:58 »

Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.

Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.

Well phrased.  Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.

Hopefully Pintsize really is in the freezer, because if he's up to any shenanigans, he'll be in worse shape than Marten by morning.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #443 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:01 »

Hm, now I've had time to think about the comic (and having read some of the great comments), it occurred to me that a lot of QC characters seem to share a world view where a (hetero) girl/boy friendship is always about getting in each other's pants.

Faye expresses this, after the talk.
Dora expressed this, more than once, about Marten and Faye, before she got together with Marten and afterwards. (Especially with her it always seemed to be about this)

And now Marten, too? (Yes, I know, drunken logic and all. But there has to be SOME reason why he blurted this out.)

Man, and all this Marten Drama reminds me of how Faye used to drink too much. Her complaints were essentially the same: I get fixed up and try and everything and the only ones benefiting from it are Marten and Dora!
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Hi-chew

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #444 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:06 »

Okay, this doesn't exactly fit in with the context of the current discussion, but I'm surprised at the accuracy in Faye's Muay Thai stance. Her hips are forward, her spine is back and just a bit curved, and her hands are in exactly the right position for an enemy who is farther away. The only difference(and it's also possible that the school where I learned is just a bit different) is that her elbows are out a bit too wide- usually we keep our elbows in close to protect our ribs from rib shots, and we keep our hands close to protect the head from head shots. I guess it's not exactly important when your opponent's a drunk indie-rock boy who's knocked out on the floor, though.
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JudgmentMcGodly

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #445 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:13 »

Poor Martin just can't catch a break, can he?
He tries to vent at work and gets told to shut up.
His mom's coming soon despite him clearly not wanting it, thereby raising stress and tension levels.
He tries to vent at Faye when she gets back, but she won't have any of it. (Understandable as he's attacking/insulting her).
And for that, getting knocked the fuck out is "what's coming to him"?
Seriously?
Dude just needs to be left alone for a while.
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DJRubberducky

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #446 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:15 »

He didn't do it to get a free pass.

 But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.

 And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.

And Faye of all people should understand that feeling.

I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly, though I must confess I will squeal delightedly if she also calls back to the moment I referenced.
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DJRubberducky

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #447 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:24 »

Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:).

Oddly enough, it was just this past Saturday when I was talking to a friend of mine about how I fully expect that I would get in trouble for "overdoing it" if I ever needed to defend myself (so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).  My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt.  (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)
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el_loco_avs

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #448 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:27 »

Ouch. Truly sorry to hear that. I can understand the survival adrenalin reaction which Faye seems to have had, but on the other hand, if she's had any kind of martial arts training (dont know, just assuming because of the fighting stance), one of the first things you learn (atleast after basic training course), is some kind of restraint. Because, with proper training, you can do quite a lot of damage with "just one" strike (and especially to a drunken pencilneck like marten  :roll:).

Oddly enough, it was just this past Saturday when I was talking to a friend of mine about how I fully expect that I would get in trouble for "overdoing it" if I ever needed to defend myself (so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).  My friend said that she very deliberately STOPPED testing for belts (judo IIRC) after a certain level precisely BECAUSE if she stayed below a certain registered level of proficiency, she would not be held as responsible for excessive violence than she would be if she actually got all the way up to black belt.  (I don't know if the bit about needing to register herself as a deadly weapon was literal or hyperbole.)

Heh. Excessively violent with judo.

Although you could break limbs yeah.
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Kugai

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #449 on: 15 Dec 2010, 15:30 »

I suspect the sock to the jaw will be just the proverbial kick in the pants that Marten needs at this point.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Ms. Vance shows up though.
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