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Reconciliation - between the sheets.

4 (3.1%)

Platonic Reconciliation.

11 (8.7%)

Hilarious Misunderstanding.

17 (13.4%)

MARTEN RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE!

26 (20.5%)

DORA RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE!

0 (0%)

FAYE RAAAAAAGGGGGEEEE!

4 (3.1%)

Hannelore Hulks out!

6 (4.7%)

Sven Seduction!

9 (7.1%)

Cosette Burns down COD, everyone dies.

18 (14.2%)

Pintsize!

8 (6.3%)

Waffles!

24 (18.9%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Mustakyy]

I like that waffles is a close second, and would like to find a way to combine waffles and Marten RAAAGE

"No moar waffles???" "Noooooo!!!"
*last straw for our unlucky protagonist*

"FFFFUUUUU!"

 

Agreed, as noted in my reply above, malicious was a poor choice on my part. "Blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes" is closer to the point I was trying to make.

Whoops, didnt notice that in time. Sry, wasnt trying to nitpick, the choice of words just sounded a bit too harsh for my ears.

Ok, im off to see Tron legacy, sorry for the silly antics 

[AnAverageWriter]

And yeah, if this is a light-hearted comedy, then having Veronica hit by a bus would be every bit as funny as this was.  Funnier, in fact. 

Or have Veronica and Dora both get hit by a bus and never show up in the comic again. That would be funny!

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

Hell, I wouldn't put it past her to do something like looking up porn on his computer, even if he specifically asked her not to. Take from that what you will.

Many of us end up dating folks who behave like our parents.   In my case,  I dated quite a few women who behaved like my mother did twords me before I figured it out.

This may be what Jeph is demonstrating with this arc.     Dora and Mother Of Martin (M.O.M.) are more alike than we (didn't before) realize... she is demonstrating the same Lack Of Respect/Hey It's Your Fault For Having A Spine behavior that Dora did.

[Pika_power]

Pika: Distegarding perhaps? She seems more "ignorant", to me; she's definitely back in established mother-child patterns. I think she isn't a stupid person, but she's reading Marty wrong and he's not helping. Again, her whip-crack discipline is out of line on an adult, yes, but I think she has been being a bumbling confused parent with communication issues and clouded emotions, not an actively malicious force.

Yes. For the third time since I initially posted it, I take it back. Marten's mother is not malicious. A far better turn of phrase is "Blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes".

[Swedish Chef]

Seriously, mothers are the easiest people to get angry at, because most of the time, we know they love us unconditionally. And they are also the undisputed mistresses of guilt-tripping us.

True that. Now, add 

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

"No moar waffles???" "Noooooo!!!"
*last straw for our unlucky protagonist*

"FFFFUUUUU!"

\

Monday's strip (in this bizzaro-world unlikely-to-happen universe) would be them leading a battered, hand-cuffed Martin to the police-car,   Pintsize pieces strewn about the room (damaged poster askew on the wall) and Faye giving a statement to the police.   "And then he snapped... so I kicked his ass for his own good."

[Dr. ROFLPWN]

Pika: Distegarding perhaps? She seems more "ignorant", to me; she's definitely back in established mother-child patterns. I think she isn't a stupid person, but she's reading Marty wrong and he's not helping. Again, her whip-crack discipline is out of line on an adult, yes, but I think she has been being a bumbling confused parent with communication issues and clouded emotions, not an actively malicious force.

Yes. For the third time since I initially posted it, I take it back. Marten's mother is not malicious. A far better turn of phrase is "Blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes".

Bluhhh. I meant that as "you could also use 'ignorant' or 'bumbling'", not to try and correct you again. Sorry!

[leahneedsanap]

Man, no wonder Marten was happy to take a stupid risk to move across the country for a girl--an excuse to break the tether if nothing else.

Also, you know who Dora needs to have a talk with?  Meera.

[themacnut]

"No moar waffles???" "Noooooo!!!"
*last straw for our unlucky protagonist*

"FFFFUUUUU!"

\

Monday's strip (in this bizzaro-world unlikely-to-happen universe) would be them leading a battered, hand-cuffed Martin to the police-car,   Pintsize pieces strewn about the room ...

Actually, I can see Marten snapping on Pintsize after one prank too many, which would most likely be right after the debacle that was his day with his mother. He won't go off on his mother, no way. But Pintsize? I think if our favorite mischevious little AnthroPC doesn't watch his step over the next few days, he could find himself ending up in more pieces than even Marigold could put back together-courtesy of Marten RAAAAAAAGE!

[iduguphergrave]

Marten asks Marigold to try and fix Pintsize:


Marigold: Jesus Christ what did Faye do this time?!

Marten: Actually it was me.


Actually that'd be bad considering how irked Marigold got when she just thought Marten was abusing him. I can only imagine her reaction if this happened. And then Marten would have a human body to hide...

[Is it cold in here?]

Marten's historically been good about reacting proportionally to Pintsize. Also he regards Pintsize as a friend, not just property. That said, I can imagine frozen waffles in Pintsize's near future.

[TheEvilDog]

Marten's historically been good about reacting proportionally to Pintsize. Also he regards Pintsize as a friend, not just property. That said, I can imagine frozen waffles in Pintsize's near future.

WAFFLES!

[AnAverageWriter]

And then Marten would have a human body to hide...

Or Marigold would.

[iduguphergrave]

Angus comes home to find Marten and Marigold engaging in single combat against each other.

Who's side would he take?

[themacnut]

Marten's historically been good about reacting proportionally to Pintsize...

Yes he has-but that was before the last few days. You know, the days where he got dumped by his girlfriend, got blackout drunk then hungover, and is now enduring a visit from his mother. He's already not dealing with his mother's usual hijinks very well because he's still reeling from being dumped and is hungover. Another Pintsize prank on the heels of all that could very well be the proverbial straw.

[St.Clair]

It just keeps getting ickier and harder to watch.

[iduguphergrave]

That's what she said.










Oh come on it's the weekend and I've been drinking lighten up!

[Sharp]

This has pretty much been my face at the last two weeks of comics. (minus the two non-canon strips)
I have probably been out-quoted and out-linked by most of the regular posters, but I am going to say my piece dammit! My main gripe with this arc has been the complete mood change since Veronica's arrival.

Pre-breakup we had shenanigans and regular QC. Even during the breakup we had emotions and situations that were familiar to us. We all remembered the underwear incident and so it was no surprise when the tempers started flaring again. Even if we didn't see it coming, we at least understood why it was happening. But this...this THING that has occured, it has really thrown me for a loop!

Maybe it's because it's been so long since we've seen Veronica that we kind of forgot that she was fond of saying whatever seemed funny at the time. Maybe Jeph decided to fiddle around with her character, like Hannelore, I don't know. What I do know, is that when people say "Oh it's QC, it's a comedy. You just aren't looking at it from the funny side." I look at it again, and it isn't funny. QC has (in my opinion) always had a pretty solid equilibrium of comedy and drama. Jeph never lets the drama sit for too long before we get a fart joke or someone mentions what a downer they are being. It's been 14 comics since Veronica arrived. It's been 38 comics since the fight between Dora and Marten started. A fairly large portion of those 38 comics have been related to the breakup, and most of them are downers. We get the little punchline at the end, but does it really make up for the tone of the comic? Basically, I'm saying that as of yet, Jeph hasn't let a downer note go on this long, at least not since The Talk. I wish I could laugh at these comics, but it's the awkward laugh you hear when someone says a really offensive joke. (Ha ha ha?)

Also, we need to factor in the limits of webcomics, Jeph may update 5 days a week, but he still only has 4-6 panels to get across: story, a joke, and a hook to keep us coming back. I think this whole arc would be easier to take if you showed up two months from now when this has all blown over (dear God I hope so) and read it all in a few minutes. But coming back every day to see Marten get kicked again is a completely different experience.

Now, I'm not going to drop the comic, no no no. But it has been hard reading these last couple weeks. It's tiring to see Marten have to go through all of this, and I'm telling you right now, if this all ends with Marten going "Wow, my Mom's disrespectful and ignorant methods have cured me of my depression!" then I really will be disappointed. Thankfully, I have more faith in Jeph as a writer than to end up with that result, but it is a lingering fear. I just really hope that Jeph has a good plan, because I really like Marten as a character and I want to see him succeed! Don't we all?


Hmm, I think I got out everything I wanted to say. Well, if not I'm sure I'll let you all know!  


EDIT: I remembered my final point! Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?

[TheEvilDog]

Oh come on it's the weekend and I've been drinking lighten up!

I'll forgive you, depending on what you're drinking.

As for Veronica, the more I think about what's been happening in the comic and what people are discussing, I'm starting to agree with the idea that she might be seeing herself and Henry's failed marriage in Dora and Marten's relationship, and is in some way transferring most if not all of the blame to Marten, most likely subconsciously. The fact that Marten is her son is probably the only thing thats stopping Veronica from actually saying out loud that its his fault.

[westrim]

Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?

I can deny my ability to confirm this. Does that help?

[pwhodges]

Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?

Sometimes an immediate reprimand is appropriate regardless of company, but in general you're right.  In particular, using  that embarrassment as part of the punishment is a bad thing.

[Olymander]

Yes, perhaps 'malicious' was a bad choice of words. May I instead replace it with, "blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes"?

I would go with just "thoughtless" or "careless" myself, or possibly "inconsiderate".  I don't feel there's any active malice or thought involved, which your choices seem to imply.  We might disagree on this point (active malice/thought), however.

As well, something I thought about when I read through #459 when I was hunting down the "Mrs. Reed comments without thinking" strips is her statement about how Marten is an adult and can make his own choices, along with the arguments about whether or not he's being treated like a child or not... it seems to me that there's a bit of a double standard* going on when it comes to how people are arguing about how his mother should treat him.  On the one hand, there was all the hoping and wishing that Mrs. Reed would come swooping in and "fix" everything back when we first heard that she was visiting.  Now, if she'd actually done that, that would have been almost the definition of treating him like a child; "here, sweetie, let Mommy take care of everything for you."  On the other hand, when she doesn't "coddle" him and instead treats things as if they were normal, in a backhanded way, she's treating him as a full adult; "you're old enough to solve all your own problems, dear, and you don't need any help from me."

Now, obviously, these are two extremes, but it does support the proposition that Marten and Mrs. Reed are still trying to work out how their relationship should perhaps function.  The way Mrs. Reed swings back and forth between the positions (treating him like a child one moment, and then leaving him alone for others) strengthens the claim that she doesn't quite know how to deal with him.

* - this phrase is a bit stronger than how I actually mean it, but I can't think of a better one at present.

Addendum - Congratulations to "Is it cold in here?" for becoming the second moderator of this section.  Good luck, and I hope we don't cause you too many sleepless nights!

[Border Reiver]

EDIT: I remembered my final point! Isn't it an unspoken rule that you don't reprimand your children in front of their friends? I was always taught that doing so only breeds resentment, as they are embarrassed in front their peers. Can any of the resident parents here confirm or deny this?

There really aren't any written rules for parenting, but Mr. Hodges has definitely hit the nail on the head - generally we don't reprimand in front of friends or other people, but if you really cross the line then public reprimands are warranted.  Just like in your workplace , the boss will ususally take you aside to rip you a new one - but if you are endangering others, or an egregious violation of workplace rules, you may just end up being taken care of in front of your peers. 

[tomart]

And yeah, if this is a light-hearted comedy, then having Veronica hit by a bus would be every bit as funny as this was.  Funnier, in fact.  

Since after her recent behavior, she'd deserve it.
Honestly, I don't understand those who think Veronica's trying to help him.  Someone was right, earlier, pointing out that she's treating Dora like the poor victim while acting like Marten's feelings don't matter, or SHOULD be stomped upon.  Maybe she IS subconsciously feeling her own marital breakup; that would explain a lot, but God, why can't someone point it out to her, and stop this travesty of parenting?
I'm losing faith that Jeph will or can salvage Veronica as a sympathetic character.  Maybe that was his intention, to turn her from what we saw a couple years ago, to an oblivious, selfish oaf who should have stayed home.
...Oooooh, wait; maybe Jeph's going overboard to deny us any shred of pleasure in our fan-spun fantasy of Veronica helping Marten and slamming Dora.   That's a... disappointing thought.  I hope wrenching our expectations doesn't equate to wrenching Marten (and the whole tone of the comic) this badly.   [Uh oh: after our loutish behavior in December, maybe his anger at us is coming through...]

[westrim]

As well, something I thought about when I read through #459 when I was hunting down the "Mrs. Reed comments without thinking" strips is her statement about how Marten is an adult and can make his own choices, along with the arguments about whether or not he's being treated like a child or not... it seems to me that there's a bit of a double standard* going on when it comes to how people are arguing about how his mother should treat him.  On the one hand, there was all the hoping and wishing that Mrs. Reed would come swooping in and "fix" everything back when we first heard that she was visiting.  Now, if she'd actually done that, that would have been almost the definition of treating him like a child; "here, sweetie, let Mommy take care of everything for you."  On the other hand, when she doesn't "coddle" him and instead treats things as if they were normal, in a backhanded way, she's treating him as a full adult; "you're old enough to solve all your own problems, dear, and you don't need any help from me."

Now, obviously, these are two extremes, but it does support the proposition that Marten and Mrs. Reed are still trying to work out how their relationship should perhaps function.  The way Mrs. Reed swings back and forth between the positions (treating him like a child one moment, and then leaving him alone for others) strengthens the claim that she doesn't quite know how to deal with him.

Well, if she had "swooped in and fixed everything", then all the things she did that are bugging us wouldn't have happened. She'd have had a serious chat with him, not hit on a waitress for him. Greeted his unmet friends with handshakes/ "oh, I've heard so much about you"/ something-not-cougarish, not bear hugs, panic button hitting, and something cougarish. Not hauled out his baby book the instant he went off to nap. Told him she was checking on Dora and make sure she wasn't freaking out too much, not snuck out and lied to him (and gotten outraged when he was upset and snarky after that). Etc. Would it have been coddling? Yes, that would be a legitimate observation. But would it be meddling with his life, embarrassing him at darn near every opportunity from what we see, and prodding the woobie when he's already down from a gut punch? Nope.jpg And she hasn't left him alone at all, from what we've seen. Twice she tried to fix things, the rest she just actively embarrassed him.

There really aren't any written rules for parenting, but Mr. Hodges has definitely hit the nail on the head - generally we don't reprimand in front of friends or other people, but if you really cross the line then public reprimands are warranted.  Just like in your workplace , the boss will usually take you aside to rip you a new one - but if you are endangering others, or an egregious violation of workplace rules, you may just end up being taken care of in front of your peers. 

So parents are bosses, unless you work your way up the chain to become a fellow executive? Hey, this analogy works!

[pwhodges]

[Uh oh: after our loutish behavior in December <November, actually>, maybe his anger at us is coming through...]

Jeph wouldn't compromise the comic for such low-grade revenge - and I'm sure he will have seen the improvement here in any case.

[Pika_power]

Yes, perhaps 'malicious' was a bad choice of words. May I instead replace it with, "blatantly disregarding Marten's wishes"?

I would go with just "thoughtless" or "careless" myself, or possibly "inconsiderate".  I don't feel there's any active malice or thought involved, which your choices seem to imply.  We might disagree on this point (active malice/thought), however.

She knows what he doesn't want her to do. We know she knows, because she takes actions so that Marten won't know what she's doing. This is the 'blatantly (and knowingly) disregarding Marten's wishes' part. The thoughtlessness or carelessness comes in when she decides to do it at the worst possible time, instead of waiting for tomorrow.

[ducktape]

[Uh oh: after our loutish behavior in December <November, actually>, maybe his anger at us is coming through...]

Jeph wouldn't compromise the comic for such low-grade revenge - and I'm sure he will have seen the improvement here in any case.

Yeah, Jeph's above such things.  

She knows what he doesn't want her to do. We know she knows, because she takes actions so that Marten won't know what she's doing. This is the 'blatantly (and knowingly) disregarding Marten's wishes' part. The thoughtlessness or carelessness comes in when she decides to do it at the worst possible time, instead of waiting for tomorrow.

Right.  As has been already established (too lazy to find/quote), she's good at figuring out interpersonal issues, so surely she has an inkling of what the effects on her actions will be on Marten.  Either she is simply disregarding that or she thinks it will help (this could be true, she's known him longer than anyone currently in the comic).

EDIT: fixed quote syntax

[Zipperstuck]

Oooh, Marten can be such a wuss sometimes. He has every right to talk to his mother like that.

It's not because he's her son, that he suddenly can't want his own way of doing things anymore. Seriously, he's an adult man and she's treating him like a little kid. Mostly because he's letting her. That woman needs a cold shower.

[AnAverageWriter]

That woman needs a cold shower.

Or a close encounter with a bus.

[ducktape]

That woman needs a cold shower.

Or a close encounter with a bus.

She's Marten's MOM, she wouldn't bear him any ill will.  Excessive vilification not necessary (not that either of you is there yet, but in a "just in case" sort of way).
However, either she is not particularly adept at support, likes messing with his mind in what seems to us to be a cruel way, or is perhaps utilizing a previously-tried-and-true method for getting him over breakups, as someone's already said at some point here.

[AnAverageWriter]

She's Marten's MOM, she wouldn't bear him any ill will. 

In terms of humans, simply being someone's mother isn't an indicator that someone is a good mom. I've certainly seen enough that if she doesn't bear him "ill will", she certainly does seem to be doing quite a bit to knock him down. Considering he's already been knocked down, it seems like her behavior is pretty Dora-like, from my perspective.

[Boomslang]

I've actually had a bit of an epiphany just now.

What if Veronica is actually trying to annoy and alienate Marten a bit, so that when she LEAVES he's happy and more independent?


Even if that's not the plan, it'll be the end effect, I think. Of course, I think that Marten needs to hang out a bit with his real friends, like Steve and Faye, after this.

[mary tyler murder]

BLUH BLUH, VICTIM BLAMER

I'm honestly surprised that you felt I was making personal attacks, and mildly amused. I was not. Was I being dismissive and pointing out that I thought the post quoted was an excellent example of overwrought blubbering over the fate of Poor Poor Marten? Almost certainly! I'm sorry if that offends.

That being said, you have some pro self-righteousness and assumptions going on in your post, and I'm trying to gauge whether you mean them sincerely or are just trolling me. If you mean them sincerely, may I say that I think you are overinterpreting to the nth degree, and maybe need to calm down and recall what you're reading and that maybe you're projecting? If you are trolling, well, you win! The prize is my fleeting attention. Bask in it!

Okay we're done.

[Blackjoker]

I've actually had a bit of an epiphany just now.

What if Veronica is actually trying to annoy and alienate Marten a bit, so that when she LEAVES he's happy and more independent?


Even if that's not the plan, it'll be the end effect, I think. Of course, I think that Marten needs to hang out a bit with his real friends, like Steve and Faye, after this.

Eh, I consider Hannelore a real friend too, but she's likely either too intimidated by Martens mother to say anything or just unsure of what to do. Hannelore actually actively tried to help him out after this which I would say would merit her position as real friend.

[jwhouk]

Ironically, that's what happened when they first met, too - she actively tried to help Marten get his mind off of Faye by inviting him up to play Scrabble.

[Is it cold in here?]

That was the effect, and Hannelore is smart enough to have done it that way on purpose, but can we be sure that was her intent?

[ducktape]

That was the effect, and Hannelore is smart enough to have done it that way on purpose, but can we be sure that was her intent?

Can we even be sure what she was thinking at all? She was, after all, on some pretty powerful anti-anxiety meds at the time.  (too lazy to find the exact comic)

[Is it cold in here?]

Come to think of it, mixing anti-anxiety meds with alcohol sounds like a bad idea.

The strip where Hannelore explained her confidence at the bar was 1046.

[tomart]

What if Veronica is actually trying to annoy and alienate Marten a bit, so that when she LEAVES he's happy and more independent?
Even if that's not the plan, it'll be the end effect, I think.

No offense, but that's like pushing your kid into a mudpuddle, over and over, so that when you leave he'll shower, put on clean clothes and "feel better."