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[DSL]

Re: The space elevator. in QCVerse, one could probably knit the cable out of whatever Hanners used to knit her scarf (it was made from the fur of giant space bunnies). Meanwhile, here's another ground- to-space transport system that seems tailor-made for the  QCVerse:
http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/Nowicki/SPBI122.HTM

[TheEvilDog]

I prefer to think of it as an orbit-capable Great Glass Elevator.  So much more stylish than a regular old Space Elevator.

Says the guy with the Willy Wonka avi-pic....

And damn you Jwhouk for getting there before me.

[Is it cold in here?]

Have we ever seen him initiate a relationship -- of any kind?

Not that I can think of. The point is well taken.

In fact, has he ever taken initiative on anything except getting soup? Amir and Natasha were already jamming when he joined them. Even in the case of The Secret Bakery, Hannelore picked it out.

OK, recruiting Hanners as a drummer counts. Anything else?

[Tergon]

Recently?  He approached Padma in a bar, he pulled a sword on Creepy Creepy Clinton, and he set up the "Congratulations For Having Sex" celebration to defuse the awkwardness with Faye and Angus.  There's also smaller stuff like showing a little more backbone at being teased by people or by his Mum, but those three are the primary examples to me.
And I'll grant that none of them are exactly going out and strongarming the world into submission, but it's far from the usual passive response we've become used to from Marten.  They're examples of him being faced with a situation he could have backed away from, and instead he didn't hesitate to step up and take the initiative in his responses.  To me, though, the most telling part is that they have all happened since the breakup.  Maybe losing something he cared about has started to harden Marten up a bit.

[Odin]

Only one of those things has to do with initiating a relationship, Tergon (and the others were situations where he was reacting, not initiating anything).

Marten pretty much only reacts to what happens around/to him (as far as the actual history of the strip goes, not back story stuff), he has never really taken any initiative of his own other than the horrible plot-point of pursuing someone that wasn't into him anymore halfway across the country and inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

He may have grown out of that shit since then, but the more recent drunken asshole strips means that there is a lot of unresolved shit in his psyche that still needs to be sorted out.

[Tergon]

Almost anything can be described as a reaction to a situation.  Right down to Marten's reaction to "I don't have any soup" or Faye's reaction to "Sven is good-looking and I am horny".  The difference is that there are passive reactions and active reactions.

I do actually grant that for the vast majority of the strip Marten's been giving us passive responses.  He lets Faye move in when she needs a place to stay, then he lets Faye turn him down after The Talk, then he accepts Dora's advances when she kisses him, he does nothing but say "Aw shucks" when he loses his job as Office Bitch, he accepts the position at the library when he wins it by accident - nobody else applied and he passed Tai's secret test without knowing it was a test at all.  All of those and many others are passive responses.

But when things started to go sour with Dora, Marten found something he considered worth fighting for.  He actually made an effort to keep the relationship going, and fought to stay with her.  When they finally broke up, he was bitter about it and not just passively accepting.  And since then, well, there's all the examples listed.

Again, I'm not saying that he's gone out and changed the world with these small things.  What I am saying is that he's become a far more assertive person than when the strip started, and his character has evolved.  And that in the last few hundred strips, it's become more obvious than ever.

[Odin]

I would argue that he's become a hell of a lot less assertive and only strives to maintain whatever he considers to be status quo at the time and that what we're seeing now is not so much any sort of bouncing back and forth on assertiveness so much as a widening of what he considers permissible variety in his life.

I mean, the last major breakup Marten had resulted in him moving across the country trying to keep it from happening and in this one he's moping and whining around about it, but not doing anything drastic. It is a marked improvement, in that light.

[DSL]

I would argue that he's become a hell of a lot less assertive and only strives to maintain whatever he considers to be status quo at the time and that what we're seeing now is not so much any sort of bouncing back and forth on assertiveness so much as a widening of what he considers permissible variety in his life.

Odin sort of  sums up what was going to be my reply to the replies. Yes, Marten does fight to preserve. Will we see him fight to grow? I would not mind seeing his next mopery answered by a good, old- fashioned yellin'-at from Hanners. Those seem to hit their targets.

[jwhouk]

Have we ever seen him initiate a relationship -- of any kind?

Not that I can think of. The point is well taken.

In fact, has he ever taken initiative on anything except getting soup? Amir and Natasha were already jamming when he joined them. Even in the case of The Secret Bakery, Hannelore picked it out.

OK, recruiting Hanners as a drummer counts. Anything else?

That's about it, actually - recruiting Hanners as a drummer is about it. And, as we already know, that wasn't a relationship initiation. Everyone that's come into his life has not done so by his choice (save, perhaps Pintsize, who we've already speculated may have been given him by mom).

[iduguphergrave]

I interrupt this meaninglessful discussion to bring to your attention this:

http://jephjacques.tumblr.com/post/4736554766/this-started-here-and-then-went-here-and-here-and

Your welcome. 

[SirDudley]

People probably said this already, but I am for Marten going back of CoD and at least try to lay the groundwork for reconciliation.

With Hanners as mediator.

[EDIT] @iduguphergrave: Sexy....*drools*

[Border Reiver]

I interrupt this meaninglessful discussion to bring to your attention this:

http://jephjacques.tumblr.com/post/4736554766/this-started-here-and-then-went-here-and-here-and

Your welcome. 

Thank you.

[themacnut]

Marten pretty much only reacts to what happens around/to him (as far as the actual history of the strip goes, not back story stuff), he has never really taken any initiative of his own other than the horrible plot-point of pursuing someone that wasn't into him anymore halfway across the country and inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

And considering how both those initiatives worked out for him, I'm not surprised Marten has taken a more passive approach to starting relationships since then. Let's face it, he sucks at proactively initiating with women (see what happened with Padma), and he knows it. And he hasn't grown the thick skin necessary to get shot down multiple times while practicing to get better.

So unless he grows thicker skin, his only relationships are going to result from people coming up to him.

[Method of Madness]

inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

Wait, what?  Faye living with Marten was hardly Marten's initiative.  She came over, asked to stay a while, and they made good roommates (at least plotwise), so it stuck.  Also, apparently they've been living together since strip twenty-two, so he hardly had time to pine over her and come with some elaborate plan.

[jwhouk]

All that for... Nothin'.

[cesariojpn]

So is Martin gonna have another proverbial meltdown? The day can't get any more worse.....

[jwhouk]

OH yes it can.

[raoullefere]

The only shop where I was ever something more than just a customer, I ended up marrying the proprietrix.

Nobody else I know runs anything.

All things considered, probably just as well, I'd say, unless bigamy laws are different in your parts or there is now no Mrs. Reiver.

At this point, I'm guessing the coffee bag would give Marten a less awkward conversation than Dora or Padma. It'd be my pick.

[themacnut]

Eh he just has to start coming back daily, he'll run into Dora sooner or later. Assuming, of course, he can psych himself up that many times...

[Blackjoker]

Poor sad Hannelore, though I did like Fayes idea. It is good that Marten managed to psyche himself up to go in...but then it gets somewhat shot in the foot. I wouldn't call this as bad as his the whole quitting/firing thing tho'

[The Seldom Killer]

C'mon, it's not that bad. Once you've psyched yourself up it's easier to do it again and next time he'll be able to enter the awkward conversation without the strain of first time psyching up. Best thing that could have happened to him in relation to this. That is unless Jeph starts a long running gag of Marten and Dora just missing each other.

[Blackjoker]

C'mon, it's not that bad. Once you've psyched yourself up it's easier to do it again and next time he'll be able to enter the awkward conversation without the strain of first time psyching up. Best thing that could have happened to him in relation to this. That is unless Jeph starts a long running gag of Marten and Dora just missing each other.

Which culminates in Faye getting irritated by the angst cause by the near-contact that she finally just grapples whichever one of them makes the first entrance into Coffee of Doom and just waits there with them for the other to show up...only to find out that they met and talked off camera.

[Kugai]

Marten me lad, you've come home . . . .

. . . .  And the 'Big Bad DoraWolf' wasn't there   



Actually, Faye's idea ain't all that bad.  After all, practice makes perfect.   

[Odin]

inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

Wait, what?  Faye living with Marten was hardly Marten's initiative.  She came over, asked to stay a while, and they made good roommates (at least plotwise), so it stuck.  Also, apparently they've been living together since strip twenty-two, so he hardly had time to pine over her and come with some elaborate plan.

The point is, he was kind of a creepy bastard in the early comics.

[Loki]

Marten's expression reminded me of Marbears first attempt to enter a bar.

...Yes, I know, this is not relevant to the discussion.

[Carl-E]

It's the WCDT, of course  it's relevant! 

(I had the same impression)

[WaffleIron]

inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

Wait, what?  Faye living with Marten was hardly Marten's initiative.  She came over, asked to stay a while, and they made good roommates (at least plotwise), so it stuck.  Also, apparently they've been living together since strip twenty-two, so he hardly had time to pine over her and come with some elaborate plan.

Cue dramatic twist as we find out Marten booby trapped Faye's toaster as part of his master plan.

[pwhodges]

It's a bit late for that, don't you think?

[Odin]

Not if it turns out Pintsize did it.

[The Seldom Killer]

It would certainly demonstrate some mastery of the long game. Not that this is outside Marten's reach. In fact I wouldn't want to get into a protracted tactical game against him.

Pintsize on the otherhand doesn't have nearly enough patience to play out a hand like that.

[TheEvilDog]

Quick show of hands....who saw that happening?

[Somebody]

Shouldn't Marten have seen the absence of Dora when he walked past the huge window that makes up the front of CoD?

[Black Sword]

Fuck. Great. Back into the rut we go. Meh. SSDD.

inviting someone to live with him purely for the remote possibility of hooking up with them farther down the line (Faye, at the beginning of QC when she burned her apartment up with a toaster or something equally retarded, after pining after her for however many strips).

Wait, what?  Faye living with Marten was hardly Marten's initiative.  She came over, asked to stay a while, and they made good roommates (at least plotwise), so it stuck.  Also, apparently they've been living together since strip twenty-two, so he hardly had time to pine over her and come with some elaborate plan.

The point is, he was kind of a creepy bastard in the early comics.

Respectfully disagree. In both those instances, Pintsize was being Pintsize. Marten just saw no reason not to be a little bit perverted since it involved a girl he thought was hot.

[Odin]

Shouldn't Marten have seen the absence of Dora when he walked past the huge window that makes up the front of CoD?

Depends entirely on how much sunrise glare is going on all over that window/how much tinting Dora has on it.

[Akima]

Shouldn't Marten have seen the absence of Dora when he walked past the huge window that makes up the front of CoD?

Not if she was in the storeroom at the back (or the ladies), no. It's a shop, not a goldfish-bowl.

Hmm... Perhaps Dora will now see Marten leaving the CoD from across the street or something, and immediately conclude that he went there because she wasn't on duty. Cue paranoia?

[pwhodges]

She moving from Sven's to her new place; only a small chance that the journey takes her past the café, and that she'd look in.

[TheEvilDog]

She moving from Sven's to her new place; only a small chance that the journey takes her past the café, and that she'd look in.

Unless she went in to remind Faye about an incoming order, or to take the day's takings to the bank, or some other buisness related matter.

[DSL]

Or, you know, Faye or Hanners mentions later that Marten stopped by ...
Wonder if Dora would then say, tell him he's not welcome.

[iduguphergrave]

I don't think she'd be that vindictive...all the same, I was kinda hoping for some fireworks; I can't see Dora being cool with seeing Marten at the shop just yet.

Also teehee Faye's wearin the tsundere shirt 

[DSL]

I kinda like Hanners's expression in the last panel. Not so much sad-Hanners as the beginnings of "WTF Marten?"

[TheEvilDog]

I kinda like Hanners's expression in the last panel. Not so much sad-Hanners as the beginnings of "WTF Marten?"

I thought it was confused Hanners, more "WTFH" rather than "WTF".

[jwhouk]

Quick show of hands....who saw that happening?

Oh, you mean today's strip?

(Raises hand)

[SJCrew]

This is better than I gave Marten credit for, actually. I figured he'd keep avoiding Dora for as long as possible unless he were forced to confront her.

[ElvisRevenge]

I just keep thinking about how happy Hanners was to see Marten come in. She's just the best.

[SirDudley]

Shouldn't Marten have seen the absence of Dora when he walked past the huge window that makes up the front of CoD?

Not if she was in the storeroom at the back (or the ladies), no. It's a shop, not a goldfish-bowl.

Hmm... Perhaps Dora will now see Marten leaving the CoD from across the street or something, and immediately conclude that he went there because she wasn't on duty. Cue paranoia?

Or simply say, "Looks like I picked the wrong week to move into a new place." While perfectly imitating Lloyd Bridges.


Knowing her, Dora could do the classic "honk-your-car's-horn-to-signal-someone", pull over, and talk with Marten in her car.

[TheEvilDog]

Knowing her, Dora could do the classic "honk-your-car's-horn-to-signal-someone", pull over, and talk with Marten in her car.

I hate that. I really do. Mainly because whenever I go out, I have my earplugs and I can't hear anything, and I have a very pissed off friend telling me off later because I "ignored" them as they were driving along.

[gprimr1]

I hope Dora and Marten are able to stay friends.

My best friend is also my ex-girlfriend. We dated for 3 years, broke up, and are best friends.

[cuzsis]

 For some reason, the way Faye's line is written comes off really mean when I read it.
 Maybe it was the emphasis on "that" at the end that tinges it or something. I have no idea.

 Which was confusing b/c I was pretty sure it was supposed to be a more light hearted jest than contemptuous snide remark.


 Sigh... 

[Is it cold in here?]

With Faye, how could you be sure?

Given the way Jeph likes to mess with his characters, the next time Marten meets Dora it may be when he's not prepared and in an awkward situation.

[Method of Madness]

Or, you know, Faye or Hanners mentions later that Marten stopped by ...
Wonder if Dora would then say, tell him he's not welcome.

That would not be a wise move.