Topic: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage. (Read 39437 times)

Tom · « **on:** 11 Jun 2011, 15:17 »

As a consequence of the current Flashpoint event DC is taking the opportunity to completely relaunch it's line with 52 new ongoings (DC explosion 2.0, anyone?). Some titles look really interesting (Simone, Snyder, Lemire books) others look like dumb editorial/marketing ideas or just aw-no-thanks-please (Liefeld on Hawk and Dove?) while some of the best titles are gone (e.g.: T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents and Secret Six). Here's the full list of relaunch titles, taking place in the DCnU (I kid you not).

So, thoughts?

EDIT: What the shit, where's Batman Inc.?

Kugai · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 16:14 »

Probably filed for Chapter 11

Ozymandias · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 19:46 »

I don't understand comics.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 19:49 »

As a lifelong fan of Marvel comics, all I can say Tom is...... WHY QUESADA?! WHY, YOU BASTARD?! DAMN YOU AND MEPHISTO TO HELL!!!........ <_<, >_>, <_<

That is to say, I understand how you feel.

Ozymandias · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 20:02 »

Brand New Day made so much more sense than this.

Tom · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 20:10 »

To be completely fair, the Brand New Day era had a lot of good stories and wasn't completely mired in the characters own continuity.

Tom · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 20:14 »

Quote from: TheEvilDog on 11 Jun 2011, 19:49

That is to say, I understand how you feel.

I'm mostly a Marvel guy but this reboot has left me a little annoyed and kinda confused. I know I'll get some good stories but I've grown up with DC's Modern Age reboot as my DCU so yeah.

Damnable Fiend · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 20:17 »

I think it's cool that one of the titles listed is Swamp Thing, anyway

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 20:31 »

Scott Snyder is the only guy other than China Mieville I'd want on that book.

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 21:19 »

I find it really odd. Like they felt that they could not get any more stories out of the characters the way they are now so they have to retroactively change them. It just seems silly. Pretty much everyone cried fowl when Marvel did it to Spider-man. Sure, the stories since then have been amazing, I just wish they would have done it in a less terrible way then Satan Magic.

Though best part about this? BLUE BEETLE GETS A NEW SERIES!!!!
Worst part? No new Secret Six, thanks to recreation of Suicide Squad.

Ozymandias · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 21:32 »

Part of BND that made sense is they also cancelled all other 616 Spiderman titles.

This reboot still has 4 fucking Batman titles in it.

SirDudley · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Jun 2011, 19:45 »

Quote from: Tom on 11 Jun 2011, 15:17

EDIT: What the shit, where's Batman Inc.?

On hiatus until 2012. Probably as part of Morrisson's deal to not reboot his stuff, he had to stop Batman, Inc. to let DC do their stuff.

The only thing I'm upset about is Barbara Gordon taking up the Batgirl mantle again. I mean, she's had so much character development as Oracle, and now...that's all been shot to shit and left to die on the side of the road. WTF, DC? Also, Harley Quinn is joining the Suicide Squad. With a brand new look that's sure to make people go, "Really, DC? REALLY?" Also, Jaime Reyes is now the Blue Beetle again. Sorry, Ted Kord fans.

The only partially good thing is that we now get same-day digital distribution from DC now as of this reboot. Why do I say "partially good"? There is a catch: $3.00 US. That's how much you have to pay--yes, PAY--to see the digital copies; they are not free AT ALL. And that's got me really pissed at DC.

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Jun 2011, 21:54 »

Quote from: SirDudley on 12 Jun 2011, 19:45

The only thing I'm upset about is Barbara Gordon taking up the Batgirl mantle again. I mean, she's had so much character development as Oracle, and now...that's all been shot to shit and left to die on the side of the road.

That's another thing I do not like. Oracle was a much better character then Bat-girl ever was. Instead of just being the female version of Batman (well a better female version), she was someone that the JLA and damn near every super hero would turn to for information. Hell, she was pretty much the entire focal point for Birds of Prey.

Tom · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Jun 2011, 22:55 »

I think I can deal with that. Compelling character or not data-jockey characters have become a huge story crutch. So many heroes rely on Oracle.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 07:42 »

And apparently the Man of Steel will lose the underwear-on-the-outside look he has been dedicated to since the 30s, in favour of....drumroll please....a pair of jeans.

Yep, you read that correctly.

SirDudley · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 08:10 »

Quote from: Blue Kitty on 12 Jun 2011, 21:54

Quote from: SirDudley on 12 Jun 2011, 19:45
The only thing I'm upset about is Barbara Gordon taking up the Batgirl mantle again. I mean, she's had so much character development as Oracle, and now...that's all been shot to shit and left to die on the side of the road.

That's another thing I do not like. Oracle was a much better character then Bat-girl ever was. Instead of just being the female version of Batman (well a better female version), she was someone that the JLA and damn near every super hero would turn to for information. Hell, she was pretty much the entire focal point for Birds of Prey.

On top of that, Oracle was one of the very few disabled super heroes/heroines in ALL of comics period. And now?

DC: "What? You grew up with Barbara Gordon in a wheelchair acting as an information broker and being a symbol for disabled people? Fuck you, she's Batgirl again! Because!"

Kugai · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 14:38 »

Add "So there! Nyah!!" to that and it'd be more accurate.

[edit] Hmmmm - So I'm on the rails now. Heh! [/edit]

SirDudley · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 14:47 »

In other reboot news I linked to above, The Authority is joining the DCnU. Well, at least Apollo and Midnighter are. And Martian Manhunter is teaming up with them to form a new version of Stormwatch.

Let's hope the reboot madness doesn't break up Apollo and Midnighter. Unless DC wants even more fanrage(tm) hurled at them.

Tom · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 15:17 »

Paul Cornell, to my tremendous relief had this to say:

Quote

That's Apollo, The Midnighter and, hey, the Martian Manhunter on the lovely cover to issue one. I can say very little else so far except that Apollo is also in the book, as are other characters, old and new, and yes, Apollo and The Midnighter remain out and proud. It's going to be a very exciting book, and, put together with Demon Knights, I think I've found a new playground I'm very happy with. More as the release date approaches, obviously.

emphasis mine and source is here

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 21:33 »

Also The King of Cities is in it too. Not a big fan of Apollo's and Midnighter's new looks.

Another sort of thing, rumor is that there is a mandate to give female costumes pants. I, for one, find this ok, especially on Supergirl.

Tom · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 21:43 »

I spent the entirety of Gates and Igle's run hoping they'd give her super pants. Oh well, at least they gave her bike shorts.

SirDudley · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 21:43 »

Some notes regarding Gail Simone.

She's basically being forced into co-writing Firestorm and solo-writing Batgirl so she can still work at DC. Yeah, Secret Six and Birds of Prey got canned in order to force Gail to focus on Batgirl and Firestorm.

Fuck you, DC. FUCK. YOU.

Also, Rob Liefeld is handling the artwork for the Hawk and Dove reboot. Tremble in fear.

cyro · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 03:36 »

This is gonna require one major DCUO patch...

SirDudley · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 08:35 »

Quote from: cyro on 14 Jun 2011, 03:36

This is gonna require one major DCUO patch...

Or the game loses support, forcing us to buy the so-totally-upcoming DCnUO in order to forget anything about the old DC.

And this news gets worse. Y'all know Vertigo Comics, DC's little independent company that's ACTUALLY DOING GOOD AND WINNING AWARDS? DC has been taking a hacksaw to the company and slashing the staff and titles, but what's worse is that Vertigo's stuff are being ported to the DCnU, like John Constantine. I think that was mentioned above, but just in case, here's the short of it. John is now joining a super hero team called Justice League: Dark, focusing on magic-users. Anyone with an inkling of knowledge about Mr. Constantine will know how much of a BAD IDEA that is.

Seriously DC, you only care when your OWN NAME does good. If it's not "DC Comics" winning stuff, then nobody deserves to be happy, even YOUR OWN INTERNAL INDEPENDENT COMPANY THAT WINS AWARDS AND CRITICAL PRAISE.

Godammit, DC. I mean, this reboot is going to fail so hard at this point. You have older fans pissed at DC for destroying character history, Vertigo fans upset because their company is being used as a punching bag and now...you have 160 or so cover artists for this reboot, and ONLY 2 OF THEM ARE WOMEN (Gail Simone and someone else I don't know). Classy act, DC.

Me? I'm sticking with manga now. At least there is no chance of a giant reboot on the stuff I read.

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 09:07 »

Quote from: James on 14 Jun 2011, 03:34

Quote from: Blue Kitty on 13 Jun 2011, 21:33
Another sort of thing, rumor is that there is a mandate to give female costumes pants. I, for one, find this ok, especially on Supergirl.
She's one of the few (two?) exceptions, sadly.

At least it isn't the short skirt blowing in the breeze with her underwear showing for everyone to see. Not the best idea when your super hero can fly.

This is mostly hearsay and rumor, but my friend/local comic book dealer was at the bar at C2E2 with all the other big wigs. He said Dan Didio was going around asking everyone what 3 things they would like to right, but trying to keep the whole thing hush hush. From what I have heard Gail Simone actually wants to do Batgiril. Firestorm? No idea, but I like the concept. Why combine the two Firestorms into one, like they did recently in Brightest Day, instead of making them their own thing? Plus the concept of a super Firestorm makes my inner child all happy,

Tom · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 13:34 »

Sir Dudley, the long running Hellblazer series is staying put (according to the Sep. solicits). Characters (mostly magic or just weird) like Swampthing, Shade, Madame Xanadu etc. that have been absent from the main continuity since the Crisis are being reabsorbed back into the the main continuity. Vertigo is still going to have American Vampire and Fables but yeah, gutted.

SirDudley · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 14:14 »

Quote from: Tom on 14 Jun 2011, 13:34

Sir Dudley, the long running Hellblazer series is staying put (according to the Sep. solicits). Characters (mostly magic or just weird) like Swampthing, Shade, Madame Xanadu etc. that have been absent from the main continuity since the Crisis are being reabsorbed back into the the main continuity. Vertigo is still going to have American Vampire and Fables but yeah, gutted.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I knew Vertigo was getting royally shafted by this reboot, but thanks again for smoothing out the details.

Tom · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 19:33 »

Le sigh.

SirDudley · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 19:42 »

So....the one on the upper right is the new Barbara Gordon?

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 19:43 »

That's Stephanie Brown/Spoiler

Tom · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 19:56 »

The previous Batgirl, Cassandra Cain is/was the Hong Kong Batperson

Kugai · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 23:25 »

Her hair 'sploded!!!!

Tom · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Jun 2011, 23:53 »

She's finally showing up proper in an upcoming Red Robin issue, she has weird cape that looks like it will be potentially dangerous to herself.

cyro · « **Reply #33 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:13 »

Quote from: Tom on 14 Jun 2011, 19:33

Le sigh.

Bruce is gonna get himself a Bat-Hareem.

Quote from: SirDudley on 14 Jun 2011, 19:42

So....the one on the upper right is the new Barbara Gordon?

I'm assuming that Babs is remaining Oracle.

Tom · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:20 »

Just to recap, cryo. That's a drawing by Marcus To of the 3 Modern Age Batgirls. Bab's wil be younger and Batgirl again in the future DCU.

cyro · « **Reply #35 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:23 »

Ah.

My braaaaaaain.

Tom · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:26 »

Marvel continuity is so much easier because they don't change it completely every decade.

cyro · « **Reply #37 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:35 »

Na, they just keep adding new seperate continuities.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 11:23 »

Quote from: cyro on 15 Jun 2011, 02:35

Na, they just keep adding new seperate continuities.

Which works great, because if you get sick of one, you can just follow another.

Which is also I think why Marvel Adventures became so popular after Civil War/Secret Invasion.

Tiogyr · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 10:58 »

I still don't really understand the problem with Oracle being an information broker and finally taking advantage of whatever medical tech/magical healing opportunity comes her way to allow her to get back to the life she used to love so much before the Joker shot her.

I mean, look at how Batman bounced back after Bane broke his back. It's about time the original Batgirl got to do the same.

cyro · « **Reply #40 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 12:29 »

Quote from: Tiogyr on 20 Jun 2011, 10:58

I still don't really understand the problem with Oracle being an information broker and finally taking advantage of whatever medical tech/magical healing opportunity comes her way to allow her to get back to the life she used to love so much before the Joker shot her.

I mean, look at how Batman bounced back after Bane broke his back. It's about time the original Batgirl got to do the same.

Actually, she's becoming Batgirl "again" because of the series reboot.

Tiogyr · « **Reply #41 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 13:17 »

If it's a completely different continuity/reboot, why is anyone sperging over continuity/character history?

Tom · « **Reply #42 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 13:57 »

Not entirely, DC reboots are never clean slates.

McTaggart · « **Reply #43 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 14:40 »

So maybe she's still destined to be paralysed?

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #44 on:** 20 Jun 2011, 18:27 »

Quote from: Tiogyr on 20 Jun 2011, 10:58

I still don't really understand the problem with Oracle being an information broker and finally taking advantage of whatever medical tech/magical healing opportunity comes her way to allow her to get back to the life she used to love so much before the Joker shot her.

I mean, look at how Batman bounced back after Bane broke his back. It's about time the original Batgirl got to do the same.

The thing is, Barbara was in the chair longer than she was in the cape and cowl. So for many, she was Oracle, not Bat-girl, so seeing her take on the mantle again feels like a giant fuck you to those who became fans of her as an Eskrima practising, computer hacking, information broker. She was seen by some as an inspiration that their disability couldn't hinder their lives.

As for the medical tech/magical healing, the problem is that many comic studios can't really pull that stunt because it can be seen as flipping their similarly affected fans off. Just to pick an example, with the Legacy virus in the X-men comics. The original idea for the Legacy virus was for it to be an analogy for HIV/AIDS, only the virus was airborne, not passed through bodily fluids. Marvel originally intended for the virus to be curable within a couple of years, as HIV was thought to be. However as the years progressed and the idea of a cure never quite materialised, Marvel had to keep the Legacy virus storyline going for the best part of a decade before their version of a cure could be thought of and implemented. Same with paralysis, or blindness (Daredevil), or complete deafness (Echo). An editor can't click their finger and "zap" a character's affliction is gone, it cheapens the story and why the fans like the character, that their lives are not defined by their disability and that they can succeed with them.

And you can't really compare Batman's paralysis to Barbara's. Bane broke Batman's back, while the Joker used a handcannon to shoot her and damaging her spinal column. While Batman's back was broken by Bane snapping it over his knee, it was repaired by paranormal means. Magic has its own set of strict rules, so presumably it can only repair whats there. Barbara has a hole in her spine. Meaning that there isn't anything that Magic could do for her anyway.

Scandanavian War Machine · « **Reply #45 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 17:42 »

clearly you and i have different definitions of the word "magic"

Ozymandias · « **Reply #46 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 20:32 »

Yeah, I was completely with you until that last paragraph when you suddenly went insane.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 22:25 »

It makes sense to me. Limitless healing power wouldn't be particularly good for dramatic tension. Modern urban fantasy style fictional magic is normally extremely rule-bound; perhaps the influence of role-playing games, perhaps reflecting a more secular worldview. I'm not weighing in on the subject at hand particularly; of course the magic in comic books does whatever it needs to do re: bringing people back to life and whatnot (one of the reasons I dislike Marvel/DC style comics), but I don't think the dudes exactly being insane?

KvP · « **Reply #48 on:** 21 Jun 2011, 22:31 »

Whether it's explicable within the setting or not, it's still full lame.

Tiogyr · « **Reply #49 on:** 22 Jun 2011, 05:11 »

Quote from: KharBevNor on 21 Jun 2011, 22:25

It makes sense to me. Limitless healing power wouldn't be particularly good for dramatic tension. Modern urban fantasy style fictional magic is normally extremely rule-bound; perhaps the influence of role-playing games, perhaps reflecting a more secular worldview. I'm not weighing in on the subject at hand particularly; of course the magic in comic books does whatever it needs to do re: bringing people back to life and whatnot (one of the reasons I dislike Marvel/DC style comics), but I don't think the dudes exactly being insane?

When the entirety of Lex Luthor's hatred for Superman dates back to Superboy being responsible for Luthor going bald, you can't really spend too much time sperging out looking for consistency in power levels and how things work.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage. (Read 39437 times)

TheEvilDog

TheEvilDog

TheEvilDog

TheEvilDog