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Author Topic: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.  (Read 39105 times)

TheEvilDog

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #50 on: 22 Jun 2011, 05:52 »

Yeah, I was completely with you until that last paragraph when you suddenly went insane.

In my defense, I wrote that at 4 in the morning, so sleep depravity might have been setting in. My point was, there are different types of back injury, but the main cause of paralysis is nerve damage. In the case of Batman, it might not have been permanent damage, and the means used may have just sped up that recovery time (I don't know what the exact process was, comics like that were nearly impossible to get here around that time). In the case of Barbara, the nerves were destroyed, gone.

My point about magic was that there are limits to magic in most settings, just as there limits to other forces. I seem to remember that there was a story a few years ago where Zatanna had dreams of Barbara being paralyised, knew there was nothing that could be done, before or after, so she and another heroine to Barbara out for a night of dancing, just so that she would have those memories. Which indicted to me that Zatanna knew that magic couldn't heal her friend later.
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Tiogyr

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #51 on: 22 Jun 2011, 06:30 »

Yeah, I was completely with you until that last paragraph when you suddenly went insane.

In my defense, I wrote that at 4 in the morning, so sleep depravity might have been setting in. My point was, there are different types of back injury, but the main cause of paralysis is nerve damage. In the case of Batman, it might not have been permanent damage, and the means used may have just sped up that recovery time (I don't know what the exact process was, comics like that were nearly impossible to get here around that time). In the case of Barbara, the nerves were destroyed, gone.

My point about magic was that there are limits to magic in most settings, just as there limits to other forces. I seem to remember that there was a story a few years ago where Zatanna had dreams of Barbara being paralyised, knew there was nothing that could be done, before or after, so she and another heroine to Barbara out for a night of dancing, just so that she would have those memories. Which indicted to me that Zatanna knew that magic couldn't heal her friend later.

Which is retarded given all Zatanna had to do was wave her wand and say "Delaeh si kcab ruoy!" after the event happened, if the event itself was unavoidable.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #52 on: 22 Jun 2011, 06:49 »

Look at Booster Gold when he tried to stop Barbara's paralysis, only events kept stopping him from preventing it again and again, until he realised that there was nothing he could do. Barbara was destined to be in a wheelchair, and to become Oracle.
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Tiogyr

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #53 on: 22 Jun 2011, 08:19 »

Yeah, Booster Gold, butt of endless "man, what a fuckup" jokes by every other hero. Great example.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #54 on: 22 Jun 2011, 08:36 »

Someone missed the Booster Gold series' character development.
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Ozymandias

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #55 on: 22 Jun 2011, 12:02 »

Look at Booster Gold when he tried to stop Barbara's paralysis, only events kept stopping him from preventing it again and again, until he realised that there was nothing he could do. Barbara was destined to be in a wheelchair, and to become Oracle.

This is also stupid as hell.

Look, the point isn't that she was unfixable in-continuity. That entire fact can be glossed over for the reason that she is better paralyzed. She's a better hero, a better person, and a better character. She's an honest-to-god awesome superhero who can't use her legs and that's okay. Any excuse where it's her destiny or the same magical universe that can make people come back from the dead over and over and over can't fix a hole in the spine is just dumb and trying to make weak justification in continuity, when the previous justification is all you need to tell someone who's trying to rationalize it. Relax, it's better this way and that's all you need to know.
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Tiogyr

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #56 on: 22 Jun 2011, 12:09 »

Look at Booster Gold when he tried to stop Barbara's paralysis, only events kept stopping him from preventing it again and again, until he realised that there was nothing he could do. Barbara was destined to be in a wheelchair, and to become Oracle.

This is also stupid as hell.

Look, the point isn't that she was unfixable in-continuity. That entire fact can be glossed over for the reason that she is better paralyzed. She's a better hero, a better person, and a better character. She's an honest-to-god awesome superhero who can't use her legs and that's okay. Any excuse where it's her destiny or the same magical universe that can make people come back from the dead over and over and over can't fix a hole in the spine is just dumb and trying to make weak justification in continuity, when the previous justification is all you need to tell someone who's trying to rationalize it. Relax, it's better this way and that's all you need to know.

Forget magic, you also have super-advanced cybernetic limbs that look just like normal human limbs. You have miracle medicine and you have plain old super hero healing and durability. Keeping her wheelchair bound because it's better for the story is definitely good enough, but getting mad and saying it can't just be reversed at any old time really is stupid given the universe this all happens in.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #57 on: 22 Jun 2011, 14:03 »

Try going up to a paraplegic and saying: we can rebuild you, we have the technology. If TV has taught me anything they might not be so welcoming of your opinion.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #58 on: 22 Jun 2011, 16:02 »

*Cue Six Million Dollar Man theme*
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TheEvilDog

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #59 on: 22 Jun 2011, 19:03 »

Try going up to a paraplegic and saying: we can rebuild you, we have the technology. If TV has taught me anything they might not be so welcoming of your opinion.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. Doing something like that is like a giant fuck you to the fans. Thats why I like the likes of Daredevil, who have taken their disability and provided to be successful despite it. Just making the character "normal" again is like saying you think they're a freak because of a disability, and that they cannot do things properly.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #60 on: 23 Jun 2011, 00:34 »

To be fair, DD lost his sight in the same accident that gave him powers (DD's echolocation is a legit superpower).
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Tiogyr

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #61 on: 23 Jun 2011, 03:20 »

Try going up to a paraplegic and saying: we can rebuild you, we have the technology. If TV has taught me anything they might not be so welcoming of your opinion.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. Doing something like that is like a giant fuck you to the fans. Thats why I like the likes of Daredevil, who have taken their disability and provided to be successful despite it. Just making the character "normal" again is like saying you think they're a freak because of a disability, and that they cannot do things properly.

Daredevil lost "normal" sight and gained an echolocation superpower that is superior to that sight in every way. Barbara Gordon got shot in the spine and had to reinvent her role in the superhero community (though saying the only reason she became Oracle was because she was crippled is patronizing as well, she could have very well developed her information network on her own as a perfectly healthy Batgirl--and probably will if this reboot holds).
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TheEvilDog

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #62 on: 23 Jun 2011, 06:00 »

Barbara Gordon is also an expert in the eskrima martial art, which I'm sure she learned after she was paralysed, but thats beside the point. And I'm sure both characters had to learn to deal with the change in their lives.

That said, yay for my company's of choice refusal to change the continuity every decade (they just make characters act wildly out of character)
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TheEvilDog

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #63 on: 23 Jun 2011, 18:57 »

Oh, and I thought people might want to have a look at these, just because we all know comics are meant to be enjoyed.

Where's my money, honey?
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Blyss

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #64 on: 24 Jun 2011, 07:44 »

When the hell did Grifter become a DC character?

Last I knew, he was an Image character - from the TEAM 7 days.

What.The.Hell?
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #66 on: 24 Jun 2011, 13:57 »

Yeah, they used to be owned by Image but were bought and used in the Wildstorm universe. I don't knbow how many times they went up against the Authority, but there have been a few JLA crossovers.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #67 on: 24 Jun 2011, 14:14 »

Wildstorm actually:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-publisher-wildstorm-zuda-100921.html

Okay - while I may not be up on current titles - originally, Grifter (Cole Cash) was in WildC.A.T.'s - an Image comic.

He and Michael Cray, John Lynch, Marc Slayton, Jackson Dane all got an origin series done called TEAM 7

- and Wildstorm might have gotten the rights and given it to DC (hell for I know, wildstorm is what Image turned into), but originally it was IMAGE.  So, yeah, last time I looked - as I said before - Grifter was an IMAGE character.
I was just wondering when he became a DC character, not looking for a correction of something that didn't need to be corrected.


Thanks for the answer Blue Kitty - I'll have to go look and see when all this happened, because it was rather shocking to see Grifter as a DC title.  To say the least.

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #68 on: 24 Jun 2011, 14:26 »

I was confused to, mostly since I've always known him as a Wildstorm character, when I saw a collection of Wild CATS stories written by Alan Moore for Image.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #69 on: 25 Jun 2011, 00:48 »

DC bought Wildstorm from Image back in '99 apparently. (Thank you Google.) Which is why I've probably why I've always known them as a DC company.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #70 on: 03 Jul 2011, 19:59 »

One thing I do like about the reboot, Cyborg is becoming more and more important in the wider DCU.


Though I just realized he is taking the place of Steel/Mr. Terrific as the teams engineer
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #71 on: 03 Jul 2011, 22:00 »

I wonder how many issues of Hawk & Dove Liefield will actually get done. Less than on the Infinite? 2? 1? 1/5?
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #72 on: 03 Jul 2011, 22:02 »

Never forget,

Never forgive.
(click to show/hide)
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #73 on: 03 Jul 2011, 22:07 »

DCnU explained for retailers. Among the not bad sorta good news is that they fixed the stupid and Babs gets use of her legs back after surgery, physical rehab, etc.:
Quote
“Some yes, some no. But many of the great stories remain. For example — Batgirl. The Killing Joke still happened and she was Oracle. Now she will go through physical rehabilitation and become a more seasoned and nuanced character because she had these incredible and diverse experiences.”
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Kugai

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #74 on: 03 Jul 2011, 22:10 »

Never forget,

Never forgive.
(click to show/hide)

Ooooh look!!

It's Anabolic Steroid Man!!!!!!
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James The Kugai 

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #75 on: 03 Jul 2011, 22:21 »

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Blyss

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #76 on: 07 Jul 2011, 09:46 »

Liefield is such a fucking twat.

Wait, no, that's insulting twats, and I like some of those...

I really wish he'd stop drawing.  Truly.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #77 on: 07 Jul 2011, 12:56 »

In other reboot news, Ted Kord is getting retconned out of existence to make Jaime Reyes' origins flow better (i.e., so they don't have to explain "the two previous Blue Beetles") in the DCnU.
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ElvisRevenge

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #78 on: 07 Jul 2011, 20:19 »

To be completely fair, the Brand New Day era had a lot of good stories and wasn't completely mired in the characters own continuity.

Also, it really didn't affect, y'know, ANYTHING. I mean, people who were super steeped in the Spiderman mythos/canon might've been upset but it really was for the best. I mean, all the same characters are there, just switch up MJ with his new girl (Carly? Is that her name? I've read every issue and I cannot remember) (Also he and MJ are still totes BFFs) and boom. Spiderman.

BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND, the reboot is racist and sexist, so it's basically the same DC except everybody has higher collars on their costumes.

ALSO NO TED CORD?! BOOSTER GOLD RAGE!!!!
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #79 on: 07 Jul 2011, 20:55 »

How exactly is the reboot racist or even more sexist than previous DC comics.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #80 on: 08 Jul 2011, 12:22 »

How exactly is the reboot racist or even more sexist than previous DC comics.
Well, only 2 women have been commissioned for the covers for the rebooted series, Gail Simone and someone else. Out of about 150 or so issues to hit newsstands. Yeah.

The racist angle...I'm not sure about either. ElvisRevenge, please do elaborate on that note.
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SirDudley

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #81 on: 13 Jul 2011, 14:52 »

Apologies for the double-post.

In further reboot news:
--Wonder Woman's cover is getting redone. Even though it's JULY and the reboot starts in TWO MONTHS. Because she's now not wearing pants but will be shown in her shorts instead.
--Sinestro is supposedly back with the Green Lantern Corps. Meaning we are going to have to go through his betrayal all over again. Or have to deal with the possibility that in this rebooted universe....Sinestro's now a *twitch* good guy. *twitch*
--DC wants to show off Jason Todd's crotch for some reason. May or may not be related to seeing Starfire. See link below.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/07/yet_another_crisis_on_infinite_reboots_trifecta.php
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IMMANotListening

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #82 on: 13 Jul 2011, 20:31 »

Isn't this essentially a "Anything Marvel can do, DC hopes it can do better?"

This whole reboot reminds me of the Ultimate universe. And look how that turned out >___>
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #83 on: 13 Jul 2011, 20:53 »

Isn't this essentially a "Anything Marvel can do, DC hopes it can do better?"

This whole reboot reminds me of the Ultimate universe. And look how that turned out >___>
No, this is more of "DC just looked at its continuity and shat itself, so in order to clean up the mess they made on the floor, they are doing the same thing they've tried 3 times in the past. Also, we want to be awesome, so our internal indie companies have to be shamelessly gutted to hell and back because they are doing better than us and that is not cool." kind of thing. Seriously, DC is scared shitless of its own continuity and does everything it can to pretend the past never happened. Hell, Final Crisis was a reboot and that was BARELY THREE YEARS AGO. I'd understand a ten year gap (the time between Crisis on Infinite Earths and Zero Hour) or a fourteen year gap (the time between Zero Hour and Final Crisis), but THREE YEARS? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Marvel, on the other hand, is like: "If you want to research our past, go ahead. We can tell you that at least 80% was made while under the influence of several kinds of illegal substances, so be ready for utter madness and crazy-ass shit".
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #84 on: 13 Jul 2011, 21:53 »

Isn't this essentially a "Anything Marvel can do, DC hopes it can do better?"

This whole reboot reminds me of the Ultimate universe. And look how that turned out >___>

Hey man, the Ultimate Marvel universe had some of the best damn stories. Just take a look at Ultimate 1 and 2. Probably the best book in a long time using the Avengers team. And Ultimate Spider-man is my favorite version of Spider-man by a long shot. Sure, it's been waylaid by Loeb and others, but it's starting to come back with Jonathan Hickman
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Tom

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #85 on: 14 Jul 2011, 00:01 »

Hickman and Spencer with Bendis still on Spidey. This is a good thing.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #86 on: 14 Jul 2011, 04:25 »

To be fair, I do agree that the Ultimate universe had some damn good stories although I felt that took the brush to go: Oh hey, let's snuff out this character! Why? BECAUSE WE CAN. Some of the deaths, particularly for the X-Men, were just...unnecessary and ugh, I won't say anything lest I end up spoiling something for someone. Although I did appreciate the fact that dead characters did stay dead, it often just felt like they were trying to be gritty and 'dark' for all of the wrong reasons sometimes.

...I did enjoy Ultimate Spider-Man though.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #87 on: 16 Jul 2011, 04:21 »

Back when DC and the other major comic book companies were starting, things like "continuity" were about as foreign to them as "phone booths" and "green stamps" are to us.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #88 on: 16 Jul 2011, 04:57 »

Why? BECAUSE WE CAN. Some of the deaths, particularly for the X-Men, were just...unnecessary and ugh, I won't say anything lest I end up spoiling something for someone.

I don't think anyone would care about you spoiling Ultimates 3, Ultimatum or even Ultimate Comics X. Loeb is a shit writer (sorry, folks!) and always has been, what does he have on the guys at Marvel?
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #89 on: 16 Jul 2011, 14:22 »

Why? BECAUSE WE CAN. Some of the deaths, particularly for the X-Men, were just...unnecessary and ugh, I won't say anything lest I end up spoiling something for someone.
I don't think anyone would care about you spoiling Ultimates 3, Ultimatum or even Ultimate Comics X. Loeb is a shit writer (sorry, folks!) and always has been, what does he have on the guys at Marvel?
To be fair to Ultimatum, it had potential to be a decent story. It's just that Loeb threw in several layers of bullshit on top of it and the story killed off people for no reason other than they just wanted a big body count. And then there's the Wasp's death. That was just....just....absolute tasteless shock value. There was no reason for Jan to die the way she did. To think that Jeph Loeb thought that would work and be entertaining, that made me sick as a person.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #90 on: 18 Jul 2011, 17:23 »

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2011/07/first-look-at-the-new-cover-of-dcs-action-comics-1/
Grant Morrison on the new Superman: "He's a Bruce Springsteen version of Superman".
*sigh* Grant's been raiding his drug stashes again it seems....

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-superman-lois-lane-break-up-110718.html
Other Superman details:

--He's single this time
--Pa and Ma Kent are dead**
--He's going to be more Kal-El from Krypton than Clark Kent from Kansas**


**=Details that make me disappointed in this reboot. Again.
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Kugai

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #91 on: 18 Jul 2011, 17:25 »

 :roll:
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #92 on: 18 Jul 2011, 19:58 »

I think this is a positive thing for Lois, this time she doesn't exist as an extension of Superman.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #93 on: 18 Jul 2011, 20:07 »

I think this is a positive thing for Lois, this time she doesn't exist as an extension of Superman.
Now all we need is for DC to stop shipping Supes with Wonder Woman like they've done for nearly every Elseworlds story.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #94 on: 18 Jul 2011, 20:26 »

Different situation. Wonder Woman and Supes as each others love interest is consequential of their team based superheroics. Two people who regularly face high-risk situations together forming a strong bond with maybe some sex, not unheard of! They should avoid it because it's a little cliche, not because it's explicitly sexist.
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Kugai

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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #95 on: 18 Jul 2011, 22:04 »

Pair her up with Hawkgirl - That'd stir things up.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #96 on: 19 Jul 2011, 12:22 »

Pair her up with Hawkgirl - That'd stir things up.
Who? Lois or Diana? Either path would be interesting.
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #97 on: 19 Jul 2011, 15:33 »

Pair her up with Hawkgirl - That'd stir things up.
Who? Lois or Diana? Either path would be interesting.

Hmmmm

Lois and Diana - Now there's a pairing to turn the Superman Lore on it's head!!
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #98 on: 19 Jul 2011, 16:30 »

So, according to Dan Didio, all these Superman changes are to make him more accessible to the public.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-didio-lee-explain-superman-changes-110718.html

Lolwut?
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Re: DC reboots itself, again. Fanboys rage.
« Reply #99 on: 21 Jul 2011, 23:31 »

You get the feeling that DC is never gonna want to go to ComicCon ever again after this.
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