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4 panels of embarrassed silence

18 (20.7%)

Running away for ever

1 (1.1%)

Bitter recriminations

2 (2.3%)

Hugs for closure and acceptance

25 (28.7%)

Make-up makeout!

4 (4.6%)

Rest of cast jump out shouting "Surprise!"

3 (3.4%)

We see something happening in the party

4 (4.6%)

Tai rushes out and shoves Marten aside

8 (9.2%)

AnthroPCs

9 (10.3%)

Jeph has his first day off for years, & no guest strip either

13 (14.9%)

Total Members Voted: 76

[westrim]

Make-up makeout Monday?

Marten murder Monday!

[WAYF]

I was thinking about it, and I think the reason it bothers me is that it almost seems insensitive - "I was out on a date, and I stopped by to see how you're doing after I left you,", and it sort of rubs in the whole I'm-over-you feeling?  Not that Dora is totally responsible for Marten's feelings or anything like that - if he never moves on, it's not like she should never date or never let him know that she's moved on.  It's sort of an amorphous uncomfortableness with it, but overall, like you said, he might have been focusing on how the date was anyway, and it's good for them to talk.

I think that the reason she picked specifically now is that during the date she came to the realization that she shouldn't be dating anyone yet because her emotions were too messed up, and the first step to getting her emotional state back in order would be to have a talk with Marten.
Sure, when you put it like that it sounds kind of insensitive, but she probably wanted to get the talk done now, while it's still fresh in her mind, so that we don't have repeats of psyching oneself up to talk while the other person is busy.

Wile E Coyote's impersonation, by the whole gang, on panel 4 had me giggling.

Thankyou. It was seriously bugging me that I didn't know what that was.
You're right, it's hilarious now that I look at it properly. 

[pwhodges]

Dora may not even have come specifically to see Marten; she was invited to this party, remember (and Marten knows that).  When her date fizzled out (in a gentle way), she found she had time to go.  She would presumably have expected Marten to be there, but meeting him alone outside may be as much a surprise to her as to him.

[WAYF]

That's true too. Nonetheless, she would have been mentally preparing herself for this kind of one-on-one conversation anyway, because even if she had seen Marten at the party, it would have been what they really needed before they could get on and enjoy it.

Comic: Oh, damn. Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle? And she's ignoring he's been drinking too? Probably no more than a couple beers, but alcohol's effect is insidious.

The word I don't like here is 'defenses', because it sounds like Dora's going to be attacking Marten on some level, and that wouldn't happen unless both of them were super-drunk. Neither of them look particularly drunk (remember Jeph's fondness for drawing bubbles around their heads when they are), and what I think Dora wants to do is just have a nice gentle reconciliation where they work out their differences and go back to being friends.

Neither of them needs to be attacking the other, and neither of them wants to be attacking the other.


EDIT: My prediction for Friday is that we get at least one panel from the perspective of the people inside (especially Faye). Either the last panel, or everything BUT the last panel depending on how cruel Jeph wants to be.

[Akima]

I loved the visual story-telling in 1964, with the decompressed passage in middle, sandwiched between the establishing and closing panels. I'm surprised Marten wasn't sucked back through the door by the vacuum left by his friends' exit. 

[FrozenPeas]

As much as I want everything to work out and be all happy-happy for these two, I do think that this is going to end badly. I don't mean 'badly' in the sense that they're about to enact a COPS episode on the lawn, but in the sense that a return to comfort will inhibit some of the growth they both need to do, partially because this is, to a certain extent, another repeat of what's wrong with their relationship in the first place: Dora's taking the initiative because she really cares about him, allowing him to just passively accept, rather than taking action himself.

As much as people are calling Dora's fears "paranoia," she has a point: Marten never chose her. He waited until Faye told him it wasn't going to happen and even then he never asked Dora out; he waited for her to ask him out, he waited for her to kiss him, and he started dating her when she basically said "okay, we're dating now." When she asked him about moving in together, he rejected it on the grounds that he didn't want to move—so she moved for him... into the apartment he shared... with the girl he had a mad crush on... and who played a role in his choice not to move in the first place. Kind of hard to imagine how that would set off her worries about not being good enough, isn’t it?

Marten doesn't know what he wants from life yet, and, of course, that's not a crime—again, I'm sure most of us know what that's like. Hell, I’m two weeks shy of thirty-one, and I’m still figuring it out—but, from his behaviour, it does seem that he doesn’t even really want Dora; he’s just comfortable with her. Dora wants (and, like anyone, deserves) to be wanted her partner. She isn’t needy—she just wants to be desired (as opposed to a consolation prize), and that’s perfectly reasonable. Her perspective on this seems to be that, even though he was a generally good boyfriend, he never made her feel like she was a choice that he had made—she was just another comfortable situation into which he happened to blunder. It was a damn good situation, and I think he understood that, but—especially with the moving in together nonsense, when he had a chance to show her that he really wanted her and not just to maintain the status quo—he  never took any action to indicate that it was a life he would choose if there were another option.

Sigh. I’m trying to explain what I feel is a very fine distinction, and I don’t feel like I’m doing it justice. Still, rather than blathering for another dozen paragraphs trying to narrow it down more, I’ll leave it there and hope that you understand.

Still, to bring it back around to my initial point, they both need to take this opportunity to grow, and that’s not going to happen if they slip back into their comfort zone, even just as friends. Marten’s growth, especially, being the status-quo-seeker that he is, is at risk if that happens.

[jwhouk]

OK, so I made a poll for the end of the week.

Thank you. I just didn't want to do it where it would inhale voluminously.

A volatile breakup should automatically take post-breakup friendship off the table, I'm sorry.

TLDR other replies, but this one's pretty simple:

Theirs wasn't a volatile breakup.

[WAYF]

Once again you have made a fantastic post with some good points.
BUT I don't think that having this discussion is going to prevent their character growth, since Faye and Steve have both expressed their distaste for how hung up on Dora Marten is. I don't think he can develop further as a character until he can get over her, and that's what I'm hoping he will be able to do as a result of the next few strips.

Going back to "just friends" isn't necessarily the same as going nowhere, since if that is how they decide to handle things, then this will show that they have realized that they are not good for each other as a couple. There are other aspects too, like how Marten has seemingly been taking the break-up a lot harder than Dora. That is a fairly good indication that he did care about her. And Dora isn't the first one to have taken the initiative in this instance; Marten was actually the first one to try and make this conversation happen, he was just unlucky.
And you're right in that Dora has a point, but she did bring it on herself a little bit by getting together with Marten all of two days after the talk at 500. I can't exactly blame Marten for being a little confused about what he wanted at that point, and Dora should have handled it better by taking things slower and not, say, following Raven's advice. And even then, that plan was actually "get Marten to come to you", and when Marten didn't really follow through with his side of the plan, she started being more overt when what she probably should have done was back off and play it safe for... oh, I don't know, more than two days? Enough time for it not to seem incredibly hurtful for Faye.

I also think that it was Dora who didn't handle the moving situation correctly. Sure, Marten MIGHT not want to move because he still has feelings for Faye, but give him more than a minute to think about it. If he moves out Faye is going to be stuck there all on her own, and that might not be something he wants to do. I'm reminded of the rule that Meena laid out, only instead of leaving her homeless, he would have been leaving her with double the rent. I think the same principle still applies though.
-EDIT: I also don't blame Marten for initially thinking that she was talking about her moving in with him and Faye, since to me, that does make a lot more sense.

Although I've just noticed something in this comic, as I was looking for examples of how Dora handled the moving out thing. She does say "he'll probably just go along with what I decide, whether he's really happy about it or not", so you're definitely on to something there.

[Kugai]

*Cue dramatic Violin note*

[grimeyville]

*Cue dramatic Violin note*

[BananaCup]

In regards to today's comic:

NO.

[Tova]

As much as I want everything to work out and be all happy-happy for these two, I do think that this is going to end badly. I don't mean 'badly' in the sense that they're about to enact a COPS episode on the lawn, but in the sense that a return to comfort will inhibit some of the growth they both need to do, partially because this is, to a certain extent, another repeat of what's wrong with their relationship in the first place: Dora's taking the initiative because she really cares about him, allowing him to just passively accept, rather than taking action himself.
(snip: lots of good points)

I agree with everything you've said, except that I don't think that them having a conversation necessarily implies that they will return to a comfort that will inhibit growth. Even if they end up becoming friends again. On the contrary, I think that having a conversation about what happened could well facilitate both of them learning something about themselves and the ended relationship out of the whole thing, which may not have happened if they'd never discussed it again. They are no more likely to return to a comfort zone by never discussing it than by discussing it.

If the conversation just amounts to "let's be friends again" then in that case I'll grant you your point.

Maybe we should wait until we see what Dora has to say for herself before we pass judgement on her actions here (that last comment applies generally to recent discussion, not just to the post to which I'm replying)? Just a thought.

[Dust]

Comic: Oh, damn. Not cool, guys, not cool. Just...wow. Faye sees Dora coming, absconds with any possible defenses Marten can leverage, and utterly abandons her friend to a confrontation he is not mentally prepared to handle?

Because they should all crowd around and gawk while Dora and Marten try to talk things out? Even if he isn't prepared, I doubt their presence would help that.

Concerning Elvis, I'm more of a Johnny Cash man myself.

Speaking of Mr. Cash, http://www.nme.com/news/nme/57784

[ElvisRevenge]

A) I know they're not going to get back together because Dora said she shouldn't be dating anybody right now. I have to keep telling myself that.

B) Did anybody else literally shout "AWWWWWW HERE IT GOES!" when they saw that last panel? Just me? Okay.

[FrozenPeas]

Once again you have made a fantastic post with some good points.
BUT I don't think that having this discussion is going to prevent their character growth, since Faye and Steve have both expressed their distaste for how hung up on Dora Marten is. I don't think he can develop further as a character until he can get over her, and that's what I'm hoping he will be able to do as a result of the next few strips.

You're right… but my point is that the discussion needs to happen, and Marten doesn't have a history of discussing. He lets others talk, puts up a momentary resistance, if any, and then gives in. To return to your earlier response to my earlier post, the fight over Cosette asking him out is a perfect example: that fight lasted the course of a single strip, and Dora was wrong. She was completely overreacting to nothing (due to her own issues), but Marten didn't bother standing up for himself; he went with the path of least resistance, which was just letting her win (which obviously bothered him enough that he kept trying to turn every fight thereafter into that fight again).

If this meeting results in a discussion—and I have enough faith in both the characters and Jeph's writing to believe that it will—that's a step in the right direction; if, on the other hand, the discussion is Dora saying she’s sorry and asking if they can be friends, then, to a certain extent, Marten’s development as a character will be put off.  

Not that that’s a terrible thing; if Marten suddenly becomes Mr. Motivated, that’s the end of the strip, at least as we know and love it. His quest is to grow up—that takes time, and the longer it takes, the more wacky hijinx we get to enjoy. Also, this isn’t a movie, where everything needs to wrap up nicely and Daredevil takes down the most powerful criminal in the world after an hour and a friggin’ half (seriously, I’m the only person on Earth who actually likes that movie, but even I have to admit that that was just a stupid move from the writers); it’s a comic strip that (hopefully) has a long, long time left in it for Marten to find his way.

I actually felt a little silly, after rereading my last post, for how life-and-death I made it sound; really, I was just looking for a way to frame some further exploration of the characters and, hopefully, demonstrate that insisting that one character is all right and the other is all wrong isn’t useful or interesting.

Thanks for bringing up Marten’s own attempt to see Dora—I left it out of my post because I probably would have done another three paragraphs on it and I was already way long (as you can tell, I tend to be verbose). Basically, I think that that was a very important point for Marten and the storyline; it wasn’t as powerful as it would have been had it been successful, though, and that’s why, even though I love the way today’s strip plays (because Jeph is awesome), I think this is still something of a repeat of the mistakes the characters have already made (which, really, is just more awesome writing from Jeph. Personal weaknesses are insidious that way—if there’s a way they can convince you that you’re moving ahead while you’re still actually doing exactly what you always do, they will).

Your point about Dora always moving too fast—both in asking Marten out and when they moved in together also applies here. As much as she wants to fix things now, it would have been helpful to both her and Marten if she’d also realized that she had to let him make the first move. She needs to learn to ease off a bit, and he needs to engage more.

I’m way long again but I do want to say one thing more: I side with Dora on not wanting to move into a dorm-like situation partially because I’m out of that phase, and I can understand her wanting to start a life that is more about her and Marten as a couple than it is about them as two people who happen to be dating in a larger circle of friends. Also, I speak from experience when I say that, while it’s fun having your friends around all the time, when their jackassery gets to the point that they’re baked 24/7 and keeping a bucket of vomit fermenting in the basement for a month just to see what will happen, you start to really appreciate living alone.

[Tova]

Sorry for bringing down the tone, but I just imagined a conversation:

Dora: ... and so, you see, you are simply too passive.
Marten: Yes, you are right.
Dora: No wait... see, you're ...
Marten: What?
Dora: You're being passive again.
Marten: I'm ... yes, I see.
Dora: Oh, come on.
Marten: Ok. Fine. No, I am not simply too passive.
Dora: Yes you are! How can you deny it now?!
Marten: omg

Anyway, carry on.

[Kwark]

Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.

It begins as a pause in the narration, these few friends are taking a break from their usual adventures and just chilling on a porch. The first few lines of dialogue don't even matter, but their sudden absence allows a mysterious tension to build up, starting at panel 2, where we can see Marten gazing at nothing, apparently tired from unresolved issues with Dora and/or coffee. The silence wakes him up. They're just... gone. Behold the perspective in panel 4. All you can hear now are the grasshopers and the far thump of the bass, and even they fade away in pannel 5. Dora breaks the silence with 3 simple letters,  "Hey".

They're just not kids anymore. Either that is epic or I'm too stoned and misreading between the lines.

[Blackjoker]

I am quite curious as to where this will go. I am not sure if it will be painful, cathartic, or just schadenfreude enducing, but I am curious to see regardless.

[Enduar]

"Spoiler" from Jeph's Twitter:

(Tonight on QC)
Dora: Martin...would it be too soon...for me to date...your mom? And also Tai?

Lol.

[akronnick]

Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.

It begins as a pause in the narration, these few friends are taking a break from their usual adventures and just chilling on a porch. The first few lines of dialogue don't even matter, but their sudden absence allows a mysterious tension to build up, starting at panel 2, where we can see Marten gazing at nothing, apparently tired from unresolved issues with Dora and/or coffee. The silence wakes him up. They're just... gone. Behold the perspective in panel 4. All you can hear now are the grasshopers and the far thump of the bass, and even they fade away in pannel 5. Dora breaks the silence with 3 simple letters,  "Hey".

They're just not kids anymore. Either that is epic or I'm too stoned and misreading between the lines.

Bienvenue sur le forum, nouvelle personne!*

If it makes you feel any better, while your written English is impecable, I couldn't help reading it with a thick southern accent.

*Translation to the French by Google. And I forget, does French use those wierd upside-down exclamation points like Spanish?

[Sylentknight]

Wow. Some people have some seriously confrontational lives.
I look at the panel and I see a classic romantic-comedy moment when the two characters finally act like grown-ups and have a adult conversation. They won't be getting back together, but it may get to the point where Marten can return to the Coffee of Doom and everyone can be comfortable in a group again.

Also, Marigold's junk-trunk is looking kinda nice in panel one.

From a story telling perspective, this turn of events will free Marten's character to spend time with Hanner's and Marigold. He seems to act like a catalyst helping other people move forward in their lives. I'm not looking for anything romantic, but I'd like to some time spent with those two.

[Grantzilla]

INSTANTLY PLAYED IN MY HEAD IN THAT LAST PANEL.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQGGQ-FCe_w

[Tova]

Hi, this is my first post. I'm french so please bear with my accent. I've been reading the comic for years, and I'd like to attract your attention to the epicness of Number 1964. It looks like the end of an era, a cinematographic experience.

Vous avez raison. I was trying to figure out why this comic looked particularly nice. And now I realise that, yes, it is cinematic. It's certainly distinctive.

[michael28]

It's not like Marten could have done anything right in the situation after Faye confessed why she has her issues. If he would be the first to move justs days after it, the outcome we have now would be the same. Maybe it would have happened earlier since Dora couldn't be sure either, if she was only second best. Something that always nagged on her from the beginning. I think Marten did the right thing not to try to get the moves on the next girl available.

It took Dora 3 days to make the moves, the pace of the strip makes it appear a longer time period, but both of them should have waited for a longer time. It's not like another month or 2 would have killed one of them.

[SJCrew]

Oh dude. This is so damn good. This is the best the comic has been in a while. I'm practically jizzing.

fuck.

[jwhouk]

This could be an epic comic tonight.

[michael28]

Sorry for bringing down the tone, but I just imagined a conversation:

Dora: ... and so, you see, you are simply too passive.
Marten: Yes, you are right.
Dora: No wait... see, you're ...
Marten: What?
Dora: You're being passive again.
Marten: I'm ... yes, I see.
Dora: Oh, come on.
Marten: Ok. Fine. No, I am not simply too passive.
Dora: Yes you are! How can you deny it now?!
Marten: omg

Anyway, carry on.

and the eternal truth reveals itself before Marten: As a Man you cannot do it right!

(Tonight on QC) Dora: Marten...would it be too soon...for me to date...your mom? And also Tai?'

hehe, good one. Possible answer: Hell could be freezing it over and it would be to soon for you dating my mom ^^.

yesterdays comic needed a fifth panel.
Marten turning backwards (yelling): SOME FRIENDS YOU ARE!

I do hope they don't have that conversation on the porch, while the bunch of people that surrounds them usual presses their ears on the door.

[Sorflakne]

In before the forum explodes from wild mass asspull speculation of what will happen next week.

[Dust]

In before the forum explodes from wild mass asspull speculation of what will happen next week.

A bit late.. well, you've beaten the "wild" part.

[themacnut]

Not surprised to see that Marten was out on the porch brooding instead of inside enjoying the party, I kinda figured he would be. Hopefully the impending conversation with Dora will help clear some of the air between them. Assuming they can get past monosyllables and short phrases...

[Tova]

Not surprised to see that Marten was out on the porch brooding instead of inside enjoying the party, I kinda figured he would be.

You're assuming he was brooding.

[jwhouk]

He was probably getting sick of being hit on by the guy in the pink angel wings T-shirt.

COMIC!

And I completely agree with Faye.

[pwhodges]

So far, so good...  more to come, I guess.

Some people may find the lack of drama frustrating, though!

[jwhouk]

Boy, at this rate, they could, like, end up as friends again!

 

[VonKleist]

Hahahha the last panel really is the kicker


Also: Yeah, that´s how things sometimes work out. All drama-less and boring


So it goes..

[jwhouk]

This is the first time in a long time where I actually stayed up and wanted to see the end result. I think he did it just right.

(applause)

[Method of Madness]

Also: Yeah, that´s how things sometimes work out. All drama-less and boring

I refuse to believe that!  Also, anyone else notice that he finally had text in the commentary box?  Other than Freedom Day, it's been blank all week.

[jwhouk]

Moment of the week:

When Dora met Marten (again)

[Is it cold in here?]

Nice characterization on Hannelore and the Pugnacious Peach.

[Near Lurker]

Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.

[snubnose]

Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.

WE HAVE RAVEN BACK !!!!!!!!!!!! 

[themacnut]

I like this, that Dora and Marten can just talk without anger or recriminations, and only minimal awkwardness. I also like that Jeph didn't just wrap this up in one strip either, it needs at least one more. Looking forward to Monday!

[WAYF]

My prediction for Friday is that we get at least one panel from the perspective of the people inside (especially Faye). Either the last panel, or everything BUT the last panel depending on how cruel Jeph wants to be.

Called it!


At least Dora and Marten seem to be talking to each other with smiles on their faces, that's a considerable relief. If they're going to start mending bridges, starting with small talk is as good a way as any I suppose.
And if I was in Hannelore's situation I'd probably be thinking exactly the same thing.

(9 new replies... woah)

[guayec]

whats dora being so smug about. self-righteous b.
and marten back to a struttering jelly. self-deprecating ah.

nope. just no.  

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

Hannelore and Faye divide the forum between them; there is no third.

I would like them to half-kiss and half-get-back-together.

[akronnick]

This turned out almost exactly how I expected, down to the rest of the gang spying/eavesdropping from inside.

Now we know the real reason Faye cleared the porch when she saw Dora approaching, can't get good data if the subjects know their being observed.




I think they may even get back together eventually, but it's gonna take a loooooooong time to get there!

[Is it cold in here?]

But if they're both acting like mature adults, where is the drama and comedy going to come from?

Raven, of course

[WAYF]

whats dora being so smug about. self-righteous b.
and marten back to a struttering jelly. self-deprecating ah.

nope. just no.  

I don't actually see any evidence of Dora being smug, and I don't see any evidence of either of them stuttering to a particularly greater degree than the other. It's just a little awkward for them to make small talk after so much time of not having seen each other.

[TheEvilDog]

Now all we need is a chainsaw wielding maniac to turn up at the party and the evening will be complete. Cue Pintsize.

[Skewbrow]

When Dora and Marten split up, it felt a bit like Jeph had painted himself into a corner. Well. Looks like the paint is nearly dry now. Is Angus giving Faye a disapproving look? Not that I could fault Faye (much) for peeking. The last panel is classic comic relief from Jeph (standing ovation).