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Poll

What will Marten do?

Call back right away and apologize.
Run to her apartment and apologize.
Wait until tomorrow, and get arrested at the airport trying to apologize at the gate.
Call/go over and ask for an explanation.
Decide it's a lost cause, toast a waffle or two, and try to move on.

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Author Topic: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)  (Read 131029 times)

VonKleist

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #200 on: 12 Jan 2012, 03:17 »

Quote from: everyone
Oh noes, pls don't you shut down teh forums, Mr. Jaques :psyduck:

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Mr. Doctor

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #201 on: 12 Jan 2012, 03:19 »

Hmmmyeah, I'm not gonna be gentle with Marten here.
Marten, you acted like an asshole. Enjoy your suffering. Like Jeph said, you were doing everything good yesteray and not you just ruin everything. This is why you can't have nice things.
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akronnick

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #202 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:06 »

Maybe, after Padma has left, Marten will relate the events to Faye and Dora, who's reaction will be:




YOU DID WHAT ?!?!?!?!?!




Marten will be severely injured by being blown through the window and across the street by the force of their reaction, but while he recovers in the hospital, he'll have plenty of time to reflect on things, and will be ready for a mature, adult relationship.


Once he gets out of physical therapy, that is.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #203 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:29 »

Marten will be severely injured by being blown through the window and across the street by the force of their reaction, but while he recovers in the hospital, he'll have plenty of time to reflect on things, and will be ready for a mature, adult relationship.


Once he gets out of physical therapy, that is.
I don't know that he'll need any help beating himself up.
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Akima

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #204 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:36 »

Actually I was ascribing to Padma the entire responsibility for the total cold shoulder treatment of Marten. I see nothing wrong with her actions before that.
Then why did your earlier post refer to Padma's having "initiated the fling" as having some bearing on how Marten should treat her? You also in an earlier post referred to Padma having  "lead him on" which is hardly a positive, or even neutral expression, and it's entirely inaccurate too IMHO.

A particular reason that I continue to be impressed by Jeph is the way that he describes realistic people, puts them in realistic situations, and has them make a realistic mess of them.
I couldn't put it better, so I won't.  :-)
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Harlequin

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #205 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:40 »

Frankly, it's ok Marten acted like an ass in my mind. Good on him. She put him through hell because she was scared. Now her guilt doesn't get to be absolved by good guy Marten. Maybe she'll learn the lesson that she can't treat people like this anymore and learn to be more responsible with other people's feelings (hopefully enough to overcome her own fears). On the other hand, she may just become even more of a user. Either way, it's not Marten's problem anymore and her feelings were never his responsibility (especially given her disregard of any he might have had). "The Bigger Man" is typically synonymous with "Doormat" in any given situation.

Again, I think his response is perfectly formed given the situation. She has already shown that it is acceptable to avoid and ignore and do without explanation. She doesn't deserve any more than she gives and, frankly, she didn't deserve him answering her call at all. If Marten really wanted to be a real vindictive, passive aggressive ass and to writhe in his own misery, he could've just not answered and left her in the dark. That way, she can know what it's like to not know when you want to. You know, suffer some *real* consequences. Marten may have been an asshole, but at least now she has a better idea of how he actually feels about her and the situation. If there's a next time, Marten may be able to actually verbalize his own feelings then. For now though, this was a way better start than just saying "it's ok, I understand" over and over again and spending any more of your life knowing that people can treat you however they want and you'll just take it for the sake of some "ideal" that erases your own valid feelings.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #206 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:41 »

You're right, Marten's not a robot

Quiet, you'll spoil the BIG REVELATION, wherein Jeph blows the lid off the comic by revealing that Marten is, in fact, an advanced AI created in secret by Hanner's parents and Marten's mom, programmed for angsty emotional self destruction!

He just doesn't know it yet.

...

Why yes, I haven't slept in several days. How could you tell?  :psyduck:
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Noff

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #207 on: 12 Jan 2012, 04:52 »

Ok, my thoughts on this week in general:

Why is Marten the big villain here again?  Generally intentionally blowing someone off without explanation for a week is considered to be pretty rude no matter what your relationship, and in this situation I think he's right to assume she was doing that because she lacked the resolve to actually tell him they were through and she was moving back home.  I don't accept the explanation that because he consented to them hooking up he also consented to being treated badly.

But on the other hand, I don't really understand how Marten not stalking someone he's sleeping with is passive aggressive either, so I think these past few comics have been a bit off.  If they're actually in a committed relationship going to her work might make more sense, but the consensus seems to be that he knew it was just a fling before he left, which makes following her around and demanding she speak to him a pretty bad idea.  Lying and saying he's busy now certainly is passive aggressive, but if it is just a fling he's under no obligation to run to her side now when she's been treating him poorly and intentionally putting him on the backburner for a while.
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Soulsynger

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #208 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:01 »

[ ... ] She put him through hell because she was scared. [ ... ]
Oh yeah, he seems REALLY broken up about it.

Even IF it was their last week and he had hoped to spend it moaning and breathing heavily with a gorgeous woman wrapped around him (sry for explicit)... he is not entitled to this level of jack-assery. ESPECIALLY not when Padma was simply caught in an emotional impasse... ~~

[ ... ]
But on the other hand, I don't really understand how Marten not stalking someone he's sleeping with is passive aggressive either, so I think these past few comics have been a bit off.  If they're actually in a committed relationship going to her work might make more sense, but the consensus seems to be that he knew it was just a fling before he left, which makes following her around and demanding she speak to him a pretty bad idea.  Lying and saying he's busy now certainly is passive aggressive, but if it is just a fling he's under no obligation to run to her side now when she's been treating him poorly and intentionally putting him on the backburner for a while.
First griefing about her not calling him, her then calling him and him rejecting her final invitation should be the definition of passive aggressive. oO
He tries to make a point that neither he nor she has any clue about because neither of them is sure about their feelings toward the other. That is either escapism, projection or passive aggressivity.
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Noff

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #209 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:11 »


First griefing about her not calling him, her then calling him and him rejecting her final invitation should be the definition of passive aggressive. oO


Obviously he's being passive aggressive now and I agreed with that in my post, but the gang was accusing him of being passive aggressive even earlier, when he was waiting for her to actually return his calls.  According to them, it was passive aggressive to not corner her at work, which is pretty crazy in my mind.  If you just started hooking up with someone you don't barge into their workplace to demand to know why they're not returning your calls.  That is just not kosher in reality.
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WAYF

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #210 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:27 »

A particular reason that I continue to be impressed by Jeph is the way that he describes realistic people, puts them in realistic situations, and has them make a realistic mess of them.

Thank you.

Thank you so, so much.


They both messed up. Padma distanced herself from Marten for a lot longer than was reasonable, and Marten decided to give her the cold shoulder on an occasion when they could otherwise have parted on relatively good terms. They both messed up.
Yes, it was stupid of them both, Padma because she specifically stayed longer to spend more time with Marten, Marten because his hypocritical actions have now made him no better than her where before he was trying to be reasonable about it. They therefore share the blame for the situation they are in now.
But it is a silly idea for us to try and judge which one of them has the bigger share of the blame because, at the end of the day, they both messed up.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #211 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:30 »

...This is gonna be one of those weeks for the WCDT, isn't it?

 :psyduck:
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NotsoAverageJoe

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #212 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:32 »

Ok, my thoughts on this week in general:

Why is Marten the big villain here again?  Generally intentionally blowing someone off without explanation for a week is considered to be pretty rude no matter what your relationship, and in this situation I think he's right to assume she was doing that because she lacked the resolve to actually tell him they were through and she was moving back home.  I don't accept the explanation that because he consented to them hooking up he also consented to being treated badly.

But on the other hand, I don't really understand how Marten not stalking someone he's sleeping with is passive aggressive either, so I think these past few comics have been a bit off.  If they're actually in a committed relationship going to her work might make more sense, but the consensus seems to be that he knew it was just a fling before he left, which makes following her around and demanding she speak to him a pretty bad idea.  Lying and saying he's busy now certainly is passive aggressive, but if it is just a fling he's under no obligation to run to her side now when she's been treating him poorly and intentionally putting him on the backburner for a while.

its all just so out of character for him.  

someone like whats his name, his buddy that did the CIA thing once upon a time, i could see not getting the same reaction if he had acted the same way in the same situation.

marten is just expected to roll over and take it each and every time, by both the characters and us, the readers.  making any sort of stand, especially one like this that has such emotional ramifications for multiple people, takes everyone out of their comfort zone.

i say good on him.  he's grown up alot since his days of moping over his crush on Faye.  Padma's behavior was completely unacceptable, he doesn't know her well enough to be absolutely sure of her reasons behind it, and there is nothing that would indicate she wouldn't pull the same kind of thing again.  could he have been more gentle about it?  sure... but why?  you get what you pay for, and this is what padma earned through her callousness.  maybe it was unintentional on her part, but that's irrelevant.  when you're in a relationship you can't be so self absorbed that doing something like she did without considering the other person involved. 

it only proves the relationship had nothing going for it except a nice time in the sack, and that's not enough to justify taking the risk of future emotional turmoil.

nobody wants to be used and thrown away, and if i were in marten's shoes, that's exactly how i would've felt... and today is exactly how i would've responded.  so yea, once again i say, good on him.
« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2012, 05:39 by NotsoAverageJoe »
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Soulsynger

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #213 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:35 »

I dont know why, but reading your post I just had one of those random bad thoughts that Padma might've been with someone else over that week... and now I am contemplating as to who it might have been. 

The obvious answer being the least probable methinks. °O
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #214 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:49 »

...are you meaning to suggest, dear sir, that she decided to jump Elliot's bones over this past week?
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TinPenguin

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #215 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:54 »

I was going to comment on today's comic, but then I felt an invisible arm pulling me back, saying "Leave it, it's not worth it!"
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ilikefishfood

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #216 on: 12 Jan 2012, 05:59 »

If this is really it...and she leaves without them talking/seeing each other, he/they won't get closure.  

Here's a scenario...he meets another girl, they have a nice vibe going, and Padma shows back up and apologizes and admits that she has feelings for him, and freaked out because she thought he didn't feel the same way (2091), but she just can't stop thinking that they had a good thing going.  Granny is better/dead and she's back.  Do the still have a chance?  Can they start over and try this for real?

This'll bring up a whole bunch of unresolved stuff for our boy, who'll now have to choose between the 'was she the one?' and new girl.

...or not.  :-D
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TinPenguin

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #217 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:00 »

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Welu

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #218 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:21 »

I read today's comic and felt all, "Aw! Now I've got to wait all weekend!" and had a thought out comment to make but it all left my head when I remembered it's Thursday.

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #219 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:24 »

Personally I think Marten did the right thing, albeit for all the wrong reasons. There was never anything to gain for him, unless he could move with Padma, or change her mind about moving, or would have a chance at a long distance relationship that would result in Padma coming back after the issue with her grandma is resolved. As the chance for any of these options have been very slim from the beginning, and Padma blocking him only made it worse, he should not agree to "farewell sex" or whatever you want to call that.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #220 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:25 »

Noooo not the dark side. Stay good Martin, stay good!
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #221 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:28 »

False dichotomy: Marten either forgets what Padma did altogether and crawls back to her, or he does what he did in today's comic.
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lepetitfromage

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #222 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:29 »

I agree with those that are saying that Padma is in the wrong because she specifically said she'd extend her stay to spend more time with Marten and then completely blew him off. That was NOT cool. And...packing? Ok, packing is a good reason to not physically get together with someone, but she can't really be saying that she couldn't pick her phone up because her hands were full of clothing, right???

On the other hand, Marten did not approach this well at all either. He could have been more direct, rather than saying "it's been a while". You say that to someone you know that you run into in the grocery store. Not someone who has been avoiding you and all of your attempts to communicate. He didn't delve deeper into this because it would have meant that he had to sack up and talk about feelings, putting himself at risk for rejection. He was angry, and acted out of anger. That is never the best choice.


In the end though, I think we're all putting way too much pressure on either of them to do the right thing because we wanted them to work out, we wanted something happy to come of this and we wanted to see a glimpse of a quasi-happy ending where everyone involved has grown because of what they went through. We wanted a relationship to form between them...and one arguably did. But it was not a "relationship" relationship. They were acquaintances with benefits because they weren't nearly close enough to be considered friends.


No, they absolutely did not give each other the respect and decency that either of them deserved, but we have to look at it at face value- for Padma, this was a last hurrah before she moves a few thousand miles away to deal with some heavy stuff. For Marten....this was a rebound. Plain and simple. They may not have gotten the most out of the situation because of their reactions, but they don't owe each other anything.


Weeeee, post #100  :-D
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Soulsynger

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #223 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:37 »

...are you meaning to suggest, dear sir, that she decided to jump Elliot's bones over this past week?
Good gravy, why, that was what I meant to deliver as the least probable event. Though, as it appears, does seem to be the very first thing to jump to mind, doesnn't it?



[ everything he/she said before this ]
No, they absolutely did not give each other the respect and decency that either of them deserved, but we have to look at it at face value- for Padma, this was a last hurrah before she moves a few thousand miles away to deal with some heavy stuff. For Marten....this was a rebound. Plain and simple. They may not have gotten the most out of the situation because of their reactions, but they don't owe each other anything.
[ ... ]
Your kind of level-headed gentleman greatly grinds my gears....
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NotsoAverageJoe

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #224 on: 12 Jan 2012, 06:41 »

If this is really it...and she leaves without them talking/seeing each other, he/they won't get closure.  

Here's a scenario...he meets another girl, they have a nice vibe going, and Padma shows back up and apologizes and admits that she has feelings for him, and freaked out because she thought he didn't feel the same way (2091), but she just can't stop thinking that they had a good thing going.  Granny is better/dead and she's back.  Do the still have a chance?  Can they start over and try this for real?

This'll bring up a whole bunch of unresolved stuff for our boy, who'll now have to choose between the 'was she the one?' and new girl.

...or not.  :-D

closure is overrated.  sometimes its completely unneeded.  closure is for people who have regrets.  of course, marten being marten, that's a pretty sure bet.

closure can also be accomplished by yourself, simply by coming to terms with yourself and throwing those regrets to the wind and saying that what's done is done, its not worth the angst and turmoil to dwell.
« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2012, 06:47 by NotsoAverageJoe »
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lepetitfromage

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #225 on: 12 Jan 2012, 07:18 »

[ everything he/she said before this ]
No, they absolutely did not give each other the respect and decency that either of them deserved, but we have to look at it at face value- for Padma, this was a last hurrah before she moves a few thousand miles away to deal with some heavy stuff. For Marten....this was a rebound. Plain and simple. They may not have gotten the most out of the situation because of their reactions, but they don't owe each other anything.
[ ... ]
Your kind of level-headed gentleman greatly grinds my gears....

I'm a she. :-D And I'm sorry I've upset you with my lack of upset.

Umm...


UGH! MARTEN IS SUCH AN IDIOT, HE COULDA HIT THAT AGAIN!


is that better?  :-P
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #226 on: 12 Jan 2012, 07:20 »

One comic: two pages: two Author comments: one minor flamewar.   :laugh:

<ilovethisthreadSOMUCH.jpg>

Okay, so both Padma and Marten kinda screwed up. And Marten, at the very least, can recognize the line between doormat, stalker, and prick. In this case with Marten, it's win some, lose some: he *immediately* recognized he'd been a jerk.

But yeah, I don't buy this whole bullsh-- about how "Padma led him on" or is the "instigator" or, in general, zomg sinful backstabbing temptress. Marten and Padma are both consenting adults and that's that. If anything, it's been Marten who's shown more general self-awareness than Padma: although from experience, I know damn well how family illness and mortality can really screw around with ordinary run-of-the-mill social priorities.  

Two interesting little sidelights, though:
1) Faye and Dora might *think* they're helping out indie-boy, but as a matter of fact, they weren't.  
2) Elliot, of all people, may very well come up and belt Marten into next week. After all that Elliot's done-- his confession, his getting-over-it, his admonition to Marten to not always ascribe the worst to people -- and then Marten was a childish jerk to Padma right at the end there.

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #227 on: 12 Jan 2012, 07:40 »

Maybe Martin is simply expressing regret that it HAS to be this way.

Maybe this is the only thing he feels he can do. Maybe he HAD to answer and give her a chance to explain.

What happens in her answer? "Oh you're not nearly as important as you thought or wanted to be, but guess what? You're good enough for one more fun fling for me before I leave."

So he gave the best answer he could have. He could have gotten supremely pissed at her and she would have deserved it for avoiding him, but as has been said, SHE isn't responsible for what he wants out of the relationship. So. She pretty much as said she never wanted it to go far; so she got what she wanted, all except a good-bye shag. If she didn't want to leave a bad taste in his mouth, then she shouldn't have avoided him for a week.







If, however, she wanted to see if he would care enough try very hard to make things work - to find out if she's more than just an affair to him - then he has failed. Utterly.
The fun part? Only some chix do this, and then surely not every time; so you never know if it's a test until after the fact. You could easily have gone too far and become the creepy dude. 

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #228 on: 12 Jan 2012, 07:50 »

[...]
2) Elliot, of all people, may very well come up and belt Marten into next week. After all that Elliot's done-- his confession, his getting-over-it, his admonition to Marten to not always ascribe the worst to people -- and then Marten was a childish jerk to Padma right at the end there.
[...]
What the ... ?!?!? I dont get at all why you bring ELLIOT into this. This is between Marten and Padma. Nobody else has any say.

Elliot asked Padma out, she rejected him, end of story.


Maybe Martin is simply expressing regret that it HAS to be this way. [...]
No, he says "Why did I do that ?". Thats not expressing regret, thats expressing confusion.

And I dont think he did it for the right reasons, but he did the right thing.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #229 on: 12 Jan 2012, 08:04 »

[...]
2) Elliot, of all people, may very well come up and belt Marten into next week. After all that Elliot's done-- his confession, his getting-over-it, his admonition to Marten to not always ascribe the worst to people -- and then Marten was a childish jerk to Padma right at the end there.
[...]

What the ... ?!?!? I dont get at all why you bring ELLIOT into this. This is between Marten and Padma. Nobody else has any say.

Elliot asked Padma out, she rejected him, end of story.


Elliot may be over it but may also feel somewhat protective towards Padma.  Dude, don't get bent outta shape...Jeph will go wherever the heck he wants to go: I'm pretty sure he'll leave us all well-and-truly hanging on Friday. 



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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #230 on: 12 Jan 2012, 08:09 »

If, however, she wanted to see if he would care enough try very hard to make things work - to find out if she's more than just an affair to him - then he has failed. Utterly.
The fun part? Only some chix do this, and then surely not every time; so you never know if it's a test until after the fact. You could easily have gone too far and become the creepy dude. 

If she WAS trying to put Marten through the test, it is a blessing in disguise that he failed. I used to be one of those girls (because I used to be 18). Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble.


his admonition to Marten to not always ascribe the worst to people -- and then Marten was a childish jerk to Padma right at the end there.

I completely forgot about that....oh man...it HAS to tie into Jeph's plan somehow. It just HAS to.  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #231 on: 12 Jan 2012, 08:31 »

If, however, she wanted to see if he would care enough try very hard to make things work - to find out if she's more than just an affair to him - then he has failed. Utterly.
The fun part? Only some chix do this, and then surely not every time; so you never know if it's a test until after the fact. You could easily have gone too far and become the creepy dude.  

this is why i HATE games.  

us guys are generally pretty oblivious and take things at face value, or at least act on things based on face value... all these hidden meanings and whatnot... yea, im dam lucky i found someone who is willing to straight up say what she means and wants (most of the time), otherwise im pretty sure id end dying alone and getting eaten by my dogs.
If, however, she wanted to see if he would care enough try very hard to make things work - to find out if she's more than just an affair to him - then he has failed. Utterly.
The fun part? Only some chix do this, and then surely not every time; so you never know if it's a test until after the fact. You could easily have gone too far and become the creepy dude. 
If she WAS trying to put Marten through the test, it is a blessing in disguise that he failed. I used to be one of those girls (because I used to be 18). Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble.

after years of psyche and sociology classes, a few marriage counseling sessions, growing up surrounded by women and nearly ten years of marriage... i still can't figure out what makes some women think the games are worth it.  or even what drives them to play the games they do.
« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2012, 08:41 by NotsoAverageJoe »
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #232 on: 12 Jan 2012, 09:45 »

What the ... ?!?!? I dont get at all why you bring ELLIOT into this. This is between Marten and Padma. Nobody else has any say.
Elliot asked Padma out, she rejected him, end of story.

Didn't you notice that Elliot is a large, muscular man? And everyone knows that large muscular men are COMPLETELY incapable of expressing themselves (or their emotional state) in any manner that does not involve punching.  :roll:

At least that's what people in this forum seem to keep rooting for. Last time it was "Oh no, Elliot might find out that Marten and Padma hooked up! He's gonna PUNCH!" Now it's "Oh no, Elliot might find out that Marten and Padma aren't hooking up anymore! He's gonna punch!"

Honestly it just gets a little annoying that people keep just assuming Elliot is some big, dumb idiot who just goes around punching things.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #233 on: 12 Jan 2012, 09:46 »

@NotSoAverageJoe:
Amen, man, amen.  

Women who play games do nothing but confuse the hell out of guys at best and just piss them off at worst.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #234 on: 12 Jan 2012, 09:52 »

Jeph owes me a new work desk. My old one ended up in two pieces from all the times my head whacked it.

Marten, why would you do that? You did so well yesterday, and this time...

I hope J^2 will be kind enough to end the week on a positive note with some other characters. Like bunnies or something.

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #235 on: 12 Jan 2012, 09:56 »

I just had to register because I wanted to give my two cents about this whole situation...

I think that Marten was in the right about this.  He could've been more diplomatic about it, but to what end?  Padma was never going to stay, Marten was never going to move, and she'll never be back.  What is the point about making each other feel better about the whole thing?  They'll most likely never encounter each other again in this life and by burning the bridge (and salting the earth near said bridge) both of them can move on with their lives.  Marten has had his rebound from Dora and can find a relationship that has an actual chance and Padma doesn't have a reason to consider the folly of moving back.

Even if they had met earlier as Padma had wished, the end result would still be the same.  She'd be moving back, Marten wouldn't (or shouldn't), and long-distance relationships simply aren't worth the trouble.  This relationship was doomed from the get-go.  In fact, it's even better that they hadn't met earlier as neither would be in the difficult position that it would put them in.

Now, if Mr. Jacques wanted to be ebil, he'd have Padma have gotten pregnant from their first encounter and this last week of silence was her realizing it/finding out.  :evil:

Thank you for listening.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #237 on: 12 Jan 2012, 10:10 »

If, however, she wanted to see if he would care enough try very hard to make things work - to find out if she's more than just an affair to him - then he has failed. Utterly.
The fun part? Only some chix do this, and then surely not every time; so you never know if it's a test until after the fact. You could easily have gone too far and become the creepy dude. 
If she WAS trying to put Marten through the test, it is a blessing in disguise that he failed. I used to be one of those girls (because I used to be 18). Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble.

after years of psyche and sociology classes, a few marriage counseling sessions, growing up surrounded by women and nearly ten years of marriage... i still can't figure out what makes some women think the games are worth it.  or even what drives them to play the games they do.


At the risk of offending anyone here that engages in said games, I'll come out and say it- it's usually due to mistrust, low self esteem or a perceived lack of sufficient attention.  It's all about self gratification. If he does THIS when i say THIS, then he really loves me and is worth my affection. If he doesn't say/do what he's supposed to, he's a big effing jerk.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #238 on: 12 Jan 2012, 10:16 »

What is the point about making each other feel better about the whole thing?

There is no benefit in making others feel bad; but feeling better - well, don't you prefer feeling better to feeling worse?

Quote
They'll most likely never encounter each other again in this life

When you've lived as long as I have you'll have realised that this is not a reliable assumption!  Try to part with people on terms which make the possibility of meeting again less nerve-racking, and you'll save those unexpected embarrassments.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #239 on: 12 Jan 2012, 10:23 »

Marten, why would you do that? You did so well yesterday, and this time...

Quote from: Kim, Scott Pilgrim vol 5 p 123
Damn it, Scott, you were doing so well  last night...

And so the world keeps turning...
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #240 on: 12 Jan 2012, 10:28 »


Didn't you notice that Elliot is a large, muscular man? And everyone knows that large muscular men are COMPLETELY incapable of expressing themselves (or their emotional state) in any manner that does not involve punching.  :roll:

At least that's what people in this forum seem to keep rooting for. Last time it was "Oh no, Elliot might find out that Marten and Padma hooked up! He's gonna PUNCH!" Now it's "Oh no, Elliot might find out that Marten and Padma aren't hooking up anymore! He's gonna punch!"

Honestly it just gets a little annoying that people keep just assuming Elliot is some big, dumb idiot who just goes around punching things.

Hells no. Elliot is the character who has said one of the most advanced-zen, positive-outlook things on this strip, about not always ascribing the worst to people.
It's just that Jeph has made Marten's fear of getting punched into, well, a punchline (once, while getting dragged away for what turned out to be a sob session; and another, right after the first hookup).  It's like a Narusegawa punch: it's SUPPOSED to be funny. It's not like random violence hasn't been featured before: the sadistic vespa-bot ballsac attack, or "Owls? Owls."



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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #241 on: 12 Jan 2012, 10:31 »

There is no benefit in making others feel bad; but feeling better - well, don't you prefer feeling better to feeling worse?

She made him feel bad with her treatment and didn't even say, "I'm sorry I didn't respond.".  Granted there wasn't much of a chance, but still that should've been the first words out of her mouth.  Making someone feel bad can be "good" in a sense if it gives them the incentive to not do what caused the negative response again, IMO.  It can backfire, I know.

The only thing that would've made either one feel better is the knowledge that she would be back.  There was no option there for either one to feel good about the situation.  Either they say to themselves, "She/he was a dick, I'm moving on." or they sit and mope about how unfair it all is.

Quote
When you've lived as long as I have you'll have realised that this is not a reliable assumption!  Try to part with people on terms which make the possibility of meeting again less nerve-racking, and you'll save those unexpected embarrassments.

If she was only moving up-state or something, I could see it, but she's moving across country and has no real reason to move back.  The likelihood of them meeting again is close to nil unless one or the other initiates contact prior.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #242 on: 12 Jan 2012, 11:13 »

I don't have the years or the experience of PWHodges, but just so he doesn't feel like he's the only one pissing into the wind here ... the "f**k 'em, I'm never going to see 'em again" attitude is expensive and, more often than you'd think, mistaken.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #243 on: 12 Jan 2012, 11:21 »

Padma broke a date that she had agreed to.

Not going out with someone is an inarguable right. Breaking an agreement is something different.

Though I wouldn't go so far as Wil's attitude toward not breaking dates.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #244 on: 12 Jan 2012, 11:37 »

I mean, I would do the same thing. Only I wouldn't kick myself for doing it afterward. Dudes, if a girl doesn't return your calls after 3 (or 4) tries, shesjustnotthatintoyou. Ladies, amiright?

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #245 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:02 »

If she WAS trying to put Marten through the test, it is a blessing in disguise that he failed. I used to be one of those girls (because I used to be 18). Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble.

I am 18 and I do not play games. I have, however, been in a relationship with a guy who played games to a traumatic extent, and got away with it because of this very sexist trope. i.e. My peers all thought I was the one doing the ignoring (etc.) and I was blamed for the break-up. I received no support whatsoever, and the grade 11 section on my resume is empty.

http://thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-%E2%80%9Ccrazy%E2%80%9D/ My apologies if I'm being oversensitive, but the gendered language around this really bothers me.

Maybe typically, or in the most widely publicised circles, it is usually the woman who plays games. I pin this on old-fashioned gender roles. We're so often taught that men want the thrill of the chase, that if you are predictable they will get bored etc. So I don't think it's for completely selfish reasons that women do this, but rather because they're afraid of losing their guy. It's good to hear from men that this notion is misguided.

Once again, I think this boils down to personal experience. I used an example that relates to what was happening in the comic. Padma could have been playing a game to get Marten to chase her, so I added my comment based on my experience of females playing games. I used to live with a girl who would call her boyfriend over 10 times a day (possibly more if he didn't pick up) then stop altogether and say "I know he's gonna call now that I've stopped because he thinks something bad happened to me". I've known plenty of people (both male and female) that used a variety of these games to manipulate someone else and eventually learned that they are not worth playing. Sometimes they can be exhilarating but they do nothing to move the relationship forward. I apologize if I offended you in any way. This phrase: Most women worth pursuing a relationship with will learn in due time that games are nothing but trouble can also be turned around to say the same thing about men. I've known plenty of men who played even dirtier games than women. Everyone has different reasons for doing so, I listed mine. It really depends on each persons' background and what they've seen "work" or "not work". Obviously, if someone sees manipulation work for someone else to get what they want out of the other party, they may end up doing similar things (perhaps even subconsciously). I'm not disagreeing that games can be played by both sides or even that they don't play into stereotypes (in fact, I'm sure they do just that). I can't even count how many times I've witnessed the "Can't-call-the-day-after-a-date-will-look-desperate" thing- from both sides.


I read the article you linked to....but I can't say that I agree with it. For someone against sweeping generalizations, the author used quite a few of them. The article seemed to pin emotional and verbal abuse as a common occurrence in all women's lives and I just don't buy it. If you have a problem with the way someone says something, approach them in a way that is most comfortable for you. Not everyone can know immediately if something they say is hurtful and it is our responsibility to let others know when they cross a line that they might not have known was there. Different people react differently to certain things- male, female, both or neither. Sure, there are people with steamroller personalities that just won't give a damn, but if the person is genuinely interested in your well-being, they'll listen and reevaluate their approach. If you really want a good read on emotions and their connection to language, check out Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #246 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:04 »

The hilarious (@#$% terrifying) thing about this strip is that so many of us turn into that psychotic ex who overanalyzed every single thing as if we were ourselves living the lives of the characters. A testament to Jeph's talent, certainly, but also not healthy for anyone.

The problem with what we call overanalysis is that it really doesn't exist. Analysis is, by definition, breaking something down--once it can't be broken down anymore, further work reveals nothing more than what you already know. What we refer to as overanalysis is just misanalysis: the attempt to analyze the situation without having all the facts at hand (which is related to what Orson Welles said about acting: "what we call over-acting is really just false acting"), which results in greater misunderstandings and wild theories that serve no valid purpose (cf. any government on Earth).

We don't know what's up with Padma--while all the speculation is a fascinating experiment in exploring all the possible things going through Marten's mind, it's also, as I pointed out above, basically just serving as practice for the cognitive behaviours with which so many of us will inevitably destroy our real-life relationships later on down the road.

Worst of these behaviours, frankly, is the resurgence of the Dora-breakup-storyline-era argument over whether or not one character or another is 'right.' Marten's a jackass. We know this. Most of us love him in spite of it and also for entertaining us with it (we've all had that one trainwreck friend in school who was more trouble than he/she was worth, but just provided way too much entertainment value to actually break with--and if you didn't have one, you were that friend). Padma's also a jackass. Same deal. They're emotionally retarded idiots because they're written honestly and because, really, if they were perfect, this would probably be the most mind-numbingly repetitive webcomic in the world; the entire strip would be about Pintsize and his racist/sexist/sexual/otherwise-offensive antics and the responses of all the healthy perfect people to those antics over and over and over and over and over and over and over again (in other words, it would be Least I Could Do--rim shot).

Nobody's 'right' here. We've all got baggage (some more than others) and our ability to identify with the characters and/or situation is perhaps adding that baggage onto the comic's situation, where it doesn't belong. Padma isn't a heartless bitch--at worst, she's confused about her feelings and, obviously, gotten to a point where she feels confident enough to contact Marten so they can say good-bye, if not sort things out (at best, she was trapped under something heavy for a week and desperately trying to reach her phone, which was just out of reach).  Marten, likewise, isn't a heartless bastard--he's protecting himself, albeit at a moment when he'd probably be happier later if he didn't.

Moreover, this isn't the last comic foreverandeveramen. Marten did something thoughtlessly today and we've already had it set up that he's going to regret it--and what he does about that regret (as well as when he does it) is going to be very interesting. We haven't seen the last of Padma or this storyline, so, like when your best friend broke up with that stupid whore that no one really liked anyway, man (to whom he's now been married for eight years), it's probably best not to be making with the wild (and cruel) speculations.


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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #247 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:21 »

Padma broke a date that she had agreed to.

Sure; but there has to be allowance for that, even though the reasons might not always be good.  She had deferred the date in any case (perhaps a warning sign already), and when it came to it, she called to make her excuses rather than just leaving him in the lurch.  It would have been better if they'd talked about the real reason (which I have suggested, but proof of which is yet to come, if at all); talking is virtually always better than not talking, but some (most?) people really do find it hard - I know.

What we refer to as overanalysis is just misanalysis: the attempt to analyze the situation without having all the facts at hand

This leads to many misunderstandings and disagreements on the basis of nothing at all.  See also Jeph's comment quoted in the next post.

Quote
We've all got baggage (some more than others) and our ability to identify with the characters and/or situation is perhaps adding that baggage onto the comic's situation, where it doesn't belong.

This accounts for most of the posts that lead to trouble, I think.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #248 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:21 »

Worst of these behaviours, frankly, is the resurgence of the Dora-breakup-storyline-era argument over whether or not one character or another is 'right.'

The discussion this time is incomparably better, though. That one was a train wreck releasing toxic chemicals, and will NOT happen again.

Jeph did say once that he's never written a conflict where one character was entirely in the right (which is good writing, btw).
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"I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR."

I think part of the reaction is that we wish the imaginary people well, want them to be happy, and are exasperated when they do things that aren't in their interests.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #249 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:23 »

Nobody's right here.

... Frozenpeas' typically excellent and insightful post boiled down to its essential bits. Also true for the comic.
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