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Poll

What will Marten do?

Call back right away and apologize.
Run to her apartment and apologize.
Wait until tomorrow, and get arrested at the airport trying to apologize at the gate.
Call/go over and ask for an explanation.
Decide it's a lost cause, toast a waffle or two, and try to move on.

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Author Topic: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)  (Read 69046 times)

quix0te

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #500 on: 14 Jan 2012, 23:10 »

Meh. I'm still going with the idea that he didn't make nice with Padma when she called ("Wow. I'm so glad you called, I've been wanting to talk to you.") because he's actually growing a spine.  Part of him WANTS to be a doormat.  And that part of him is the part thats beating him up.  But another part of him fully recognizes, when somebody blows you off for a week, thats disrespectful.  Associating with people who don't respect you is the sign of a weak person (which he has been).
I, again, fail to see what the fuss is about.
Why would Padma have the right to be mad at him?  "How dare you be hurt/angry when I disengage for a week?!"
Marten basically took the route of "No. I'm not going to give you access again."  He wasn't particularly mean about it.
Contrast that with Faye, who kicked him while he was down, and rather unjustifiably.  At worst he was a bit of a coward, and I (obviously) don't agree with that.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #501 on: 14 Jan 2012, 23:11 »

Would Padma get mad? We haven't seen her do it, but then we haven't seen much provocation either.

Are there any characters who don't need therapy? Raven seems pretty well-adjusted and functional.

Quote from: quix0te
Why would Padma have the right to be mad at him?  "How dare you be hurt/angry when I disengage for a week?!"

Right or not, it's entirely possible for a woman to say something like that. I've had it happen.

« Last Edit: 14 Jan 2012, 23:17 by Is it cold in here? »
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #502 on: 15 Jan 2012, 01:32 »

...because he's actually growing a spine.  Part of him WANTS to be a doormat... 

What about a happy medium?  I get really tired of all this macho talk of "strong: good, weak: bad"; to my mind it's fundamentally a way of avoiding actually thinking about what's going on.

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...when somebody blows you off for a week, thats disrespectful.  Associating with people who don't respect you is the sign of a weak person...

More macho talk.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #503 on: 15 Jan 2012, 01:32 »

we on the forums always forsee coming events in the comic with perfect clarity. ;)

But in all possible futures...
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #504 on: 15 Jan 2012, 01:46 »

...because he's actually growing a spine.  Part of him WANTS to be a doormat...

What about a happy medium?  I get really tired of all this macho talk of "strong: good, weak: bad"; to my mind it's fundamentally a way of avoiding actually thinking about what's going on.

I decided to look for an article on the distinction between passive vs aggressive vs assertive. Because people who are supporting what Marten's done appear think that's it's great that Marten has done something that's not passive; whereas people who disagree, I think, are trying to point out that Marten needs to be assertive rather than passive-aggressive. So, here is an article I found. Enjoy. I'm sure there are others (possibly better) if you care to search for them, but this one gets the idea across.

http://blakeflannery.hubpages.com/hub/Assertiveness-on-a-Psych-Unit

I will just add - Marten was avoiding confrontation. He did not "grow a spine".
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 01:52 by Tova »
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Overkillengine

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #505 on: 15 Jan 2012, 02:23 »

Pretty much.

The truly assertive (growing a spine) approach would have been to openly (but mind you politely) say he wasn't happy at being cutoff for a week like that.

This serves several purposes.

It helps prevent further evasive behavior by not leaving the other party* any excuse to pretend there isn't an issue that gave offense.
It shows that you are not afraid to express yourself and not someone who will say whatever will appease the other party*.
It's freaking CATHARTIC and helps prevent emotional explosions later on that are far more severe than justified.

Bottling this crap up and being emotionally dishonest causes far more issues in the long run than it saves you from in the short term.

And from Padma's side....she could have done the same, really.

It's almost like both genders have the same level of responsibility for clear communication or something amazing like that. Crazy talk, I know.

*Disclaimer: gender neutral terms used to help prevent fondling of misplaced righteous indignation and other unneeded intellectual masturbation. Yes, I am being a sarcastic ass by putting in these disclaimers. Apparently they are needed.
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 02:29 by Overkillengine »
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blacksinow

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #506 on: 15 Jan 2012, 06:01 »

I think when it comes down to it... Padma CLEARLY had feelings for Martin, and she didn't act on them. And before anyone might (possibly?) mention them being in bed, I don't really count that so much. Martin (it seems so, anyway) was either down or angry at Padma about blowing him off. In the end, I think Martin was heading in the right direction, with not seeing Padma, but he did it for the wrong reasons. I honestly do not think Padma deserves much in the way of consideration, she obviously knew Martin had tried to call her (What? Three times?), and had never bothered to tell Martin about how she feels. And even if she did want to spend time with him, she should have in the first place. She knew it was going to end, and heck, she even sounded a bit suprised (maybe it's just me?), when Martin told her that he didn't want to see her off.

I could see Martin turning into a very bitter and angry person, if he doesn't get the help he needs. I know everyone else has a therapist, but has anyone bothered to get Martin help? I'm asking a question, because I don't remember much of the comic strip that far back...

In the end, this relationship was destined to blow up in that way. Martin is too passive for his own good to keep a relationship going, and Padma (it seems) has more issues then the national geographic.

But hey, maybe it's just me?
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Mr. Doctor

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #507 on: 15 Jan 2012, 08:23 »

I don't remember much of the comic strip that far back...

I believe that for sure considering that you wrote Martin almost 10 times instead of his real name, Marten.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #508 on: 15 Jan 2012, 08:40 »

Are there any characters who don't need therapy?

Marigold, Elliot, Raven, Jim, and Angus immediately come to mind. There are actually quite a few characters, mostly secondary players. It just seems that the more issues Jeph centralizes plots around a character, the more neuroses that seem to pop out of the woodwork. Look at Hanners, for instance, who morphed from this into a girl who puts on a full-body containment suit when someone around her gets sick...
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 09:06 by AnAverageWriter »
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blacksinow

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #509 on: 15 Jan 2012, 09:41 »

First off, sorry about the whole Martin/Marten name thing. Second of all, Marigold has issues, just not in the way that Marten, Faye, Dora, and Hannelore have them.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #510 on: 15 Jan 2012, 10:53 »

Quote
...when somebody blows you off for a week, thats disrespectful.  Associating with people who don't respect you is the sign of a weak person...

More macho talk.

How about, then, that such a person is showing un-compassionate indifference to his or her own welfare?
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #511 on: 15 Jan 2012, 12:14 »

Well, it took a while, but I'm finally caught up (every page I finished spawned a new one for a while...)

There's Something someone pointed out that's been bothering me, and I'd like to latch onto for a moment, because no one else has really mentioned it.  Marten told Faye that Padma was "feeling down".  The quotes are his, so that's probably what she actually said. 

Now, Marten's not the type to let that go - I would guess he asked why she was feeling down.  He may not have, especially if he was really trying to distance himself, but that would have been a bit out of character, I think. 

Now, if  he asked, I'm wondering what kind of answer he got.  There are a few we can strike off the list;

"I couldn't change my flight, so I can't stay longer"

"My Grandma's taken a turn for the worse, so I can't stay longer"

"I've been packing, and it's got me down."  (Marten: "Need some help?")

Anything along these lines would have gotten things moving a lot earlier.  But what's more likely is that he just got some more evasion; "I dunno, I'm just feeling down.  I wouldn't be any fun." 

What bothers me more is the thought that he didn't even ask.  I know he's trying very hard (and failing miserably) not to care about her, but damn it, it's common decency to ask what's wrong when someone says they're down.  Hell, it's an invitation  to ask - you don't tell someone that you're down unless it's bothering you and you want to talk! 

And if that's the case, then the ass-holiness started a lot earlier than that last phone call.  That was just a capstone. 

Thing is, Padma's built a life in NoHo.  And had they met a year earlier, Marten would be a firm part of it.  She'd have something to come back to after Grandma (assuming Grandma's not too long term a commitment).  Now, all she's got to look forward to is some awkwardness. 

But he was really in a catch-22 here.  Had he been more honest with Padma (and himself), the relationship may never have even started, because she wasn't serious at the beginning, especially with what she said about Elliott.  After she turned more serious (assuming that's what happened), he was to the point where he couldn't admit it anymore. 

But Padma never said  she wanted no-attachments fun.  That's what Steve  said. and Marten convinced himself Steve was right.  All we know for sure is that Padma wanted to go dancing.  "Bring your friends" isn't really an invitation to romance, after all.  It just happened, and they ran with it. 

In opposite directions. 
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purple.platypus

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #512 on: 15 Jan 2012, 12:41 »

Are there any characters who don't need therapy?

Marigold, Elliot, Raven, Jim, and Angus immediately come to mind. There are actually quite a few characters, mostly secondary players. It just seems that the more issues Jeph centralizes plots around a character, the more neuroses that seem to pop out of the woodwork. Look at Hanners, for instance, who morphed from this into a girl who puts on a full-body containment suit when someone around her gets sick...
I agree with your other choices, but Marigold is almost the last person I'd put on that list. Her need to develop her social skills alone is sufficient cause to see a therapist - that's what I mostly talk to mine about and I have nowhere near the level of issues there that she does!
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #513 on: 15 Jan 2012, 12:52 »

I don't think Padma and Marten's relationship (special friendship) was just about sex.  I think they had become friends.

He obviously spent time at the bakery...enough that he and Elliott became sorta friends.  He ran into her and her friends at a bar in the early days and they hung out (granted she thought he was gay!  :lol:)

They went hiking, and they got a bit flirty.

They were close enough that they talked about Elliott's feelings for her.

They went dancing...and well we know how that ended up, but she stayed overnight, and they held hands while he walked her back to her place the next morning.

Then they spent a day together...ok, so they ended up in bed together, but they did spend time together outside of the bedroom...and after that time together they were spooning (very intimate) and she decided she'd stay longer.

It's not like with Faye and Sven where she'd go over and he'd immediately start taking off her clothes.

And we don't know how much time had passed between the first time we saw them spooning, and the last time they were in bed together, when I'm convinced she tried to have 'the talk.'  That time could have been preceded (as the others were) by quality, out-side-the-bedroom time.  Heck, they may've spent time together many times in between.  Just because we've seen them in bed together doesn't mean they don't hang out elsewhere.

I think this was a budding romance...albeit bittersweet because she was moving away.

I also don't know why we have to assume that she wanted to see him that last night just for a booty call.  I"m just sayin!'
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #514 on: 15 Jan 2012, 12:56 »

But Padma never said  she wanted no-attachments fun.  That's what Steve  said. and Marten convinced himself Steve was right.  All we know for sure is that Padma wanted to go dancing.  "Bring your friends" isn't really an invitation to romance, after all.  It just happened, and they ran with it. 

In opposite directions. 

Well... not verbatim or anything, but a blatant hint was:

"It's not your fault. I was just hoping I could spend the time I've got left here having fun, not dealing with this kind of drama." -Padma, strip #2033

That on top of how things ended for Elliott probably didn't help the overly casual approach Marten clung to.

And no that wasn't an attempt to sling all the blame on Padma for this. Jeebus Fudge, people.  :psyduck:

Quote
...when somebody blows you off for a week, thats disrespectful.  Associating with people who don't respect you is the sign of a weak person...

More macho talk.

How about, then, that such a person is showing un-compassionate indifference to his or her own welfare?

Or a complete lack of self respect, etc.

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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #515 on: 15 Jan 2012, 12:57 »

I agree with your other choices, but Marigold is almost the last person I'd put on that list. Her need to develop her social skills alone is sufficient cause to see a therapist

I totally disagree. She's made enough social progress in the last year- going out, having friends, moving past the rivalry with Dale... If you had actually been watching what she's been doing over said year, you would have seen that she's one of the most sane, well rounded characters IN the strip. So much positive change, no need at ALL for anything close to a therapist.

Quote
that's what I mostly talk to mine about and I have nowhere near the level of issues there that she does!

You're projecting yourself onto the strip's characters. Marigold is not you.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #516 on: 15 Jan 2012, 13:41 »

No, I think he/she/it (purpleplatypus?  Where's Perry?) was doing it right - clearly indicating that their problems are not as intense as Marigoilds, and that they're able to get help with them from their therapist.  (sorry for using the fomal plural pronoun, but damn it, I hate gendered English).  Making the suggestion that Marigold could get help from therapy's fine from there.  If anything, they're making a recommendation based on personal experience! 
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #517 on: 15 Jan 2012, 13:44 »

Marigirl's self-loathing is still present as far as we know.
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quix0te

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #518 on: 15 Jan 2012, 14:09 »


http://blakeflannery.hubpages.com/hub/Assertiveness-on-a-Psych-Unit

I will just add - Marten was avoiding confrontation. He did not "grow a spine".

Thanks, thats actually a very helpful clarification. 
My experiences are that there are times when you simply disengage from someone.  If they are a pathological or corrosive person, you limit their ability to affect you.
I don't think Padma was a *bad* person, but the vector that this was on, a week of avoidance followed by a phone call of "I'm leaving"... signaled pretty clearly the relationship was over. 
All that remained was for Marten to decide how he wanted to respond. 
He responded by minimizing the opportunity to get hurt.  He didnt lash out in anger or take the opportunity to engage in recriminations.
IF this had been a relationship which had a future, if she were NOT leaving for another coast, then, yes, I would hope that he would have put more effort in.
But given the circumstances, I think he made a pretty good choice.
Again, I remain mystified by the people who feel he was in the wrong.  Its nearly impossible to end a romantic relationship without somebody getting hurt.  I think that the odds were pretty good that had he talked to her at any length he WOULD have engaged in recriminations and let his anger flow.  I guess in an idealized world he could have had a mature discussion with her about how they both felt... but really, to what end?  It was over.  Time to move on.
In all the possible ways that relationships can end, this one was remarkably uneventful.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #519 on: 15 Jan 2012, 15:28 »

I think that's a pretty fair point of view.

My only reservation is that Marten appears pretty bitter, to the point that it is likely to poison future relationships as well.

I don't think that things would have been made any worse by at least insisting on knowing the real reason she didn't return his calls. It may have even improved matters if he'd managed to get an honest answer, but we can't know because we don't know what that honest answer would have been.

In any case, he's going to need to deal with it somehow.

I'm kind of hoping that we get to find out what really happened at some stage, if not from Padma herself, perhaps from Elliot. But as others have suggested, we may never know.  Or maybe it's just as we've suspected (that would be a shock) - that she just wanted to avoid further emotional entanglement. :|

Marigirl's self-loathing is still present as far as we know.

Was that deliberate? I haven't noticed Marigold being called Marigirl before, but I may have missed it.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #520 on: 15 Jan 2012, 15:30 »

No, I think he/she/it (purpleplatypus?  Where's Perry?) was doing it right - clearly indicating that their problems are not as intense as Marigoilds,

And who is to say that? Who is to make such an accusation that Marigold has "intense" problems? We all have SOME issues, and from what I've seen the extent of her existent problems are a little too much WOW and some introversion- all of which she has made serious progress with this last year. If Marigold's problems are "intense", then I'd wager at least 70 to 80 percent of humanity has "intense" problems.

This is also based on the assumption that the comic is everything we see about the character's lives. You don't accumulate thirty thousand dollars just sitting around on your computer all day playing World of Warcraft.

We've got some people here who are not only projectionists, but judgmental to boot it seems.
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 15:47 by AnAverageWriter »
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #521 on: 15 Jan 2012, 19:02 »

Now, Marten's not the type to let that go - I would guess he asked why she was feeling down.  He may not have, especially if he was really trying to distance himself, but that would have been a bit out of character, I think.  

Now, if  he asked, I'm wondering what kind of answer he got.  There are a few we can strike off the list;

"I couldn't change my flight, so I can't stay longer"

"My Grandma's taken a turn for the worse, so I can't stay longer"

"I've been packing, and it's got me down."  (Marten: "Need some help?")

Anything along these lines would have gotten things moving a lot earlier.  But what's more likely is that he just got some more evasion; "I dunno, I'm just feeling down.  I wouldn't be any fun."  

What bothers me more is the thought that he didn't even ask.  I know he's trying very hard (and failing miserably) not to care about her, but damn it, it's common decency to ask what's wrong when someone says they're down.  Hell, it's an invitation  to ask - you don't tell someone that you're down unless it's bothering you and you want to talk!
He didn't ask.  You can witness the entirety of the phone call he's discussing with Faye in the previous comic.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2094

He was trying to remain the aloof, cool individual that he'd been encouraged to be, and not show insecurity by prying.  Personally I might not have asked either, as I typically operate under the belief that it's rude to pry, and that if someone wants to talk to me about something, they'll come talk to me about it.  Depending on how she phrased it on the other end, she may or may not have been inviting that line of questioning.  If she wasn't, I wouldn't ascribe the least bit of fault to Marten for insensitivity.  

I also don't know why we have to assume that she wanted to see him that last night just for a booty call.  I"m just sayin!'
I don't think she did.  I know I've been hard on her, but I suspect she had feelings for him as much as he did for her.  I still think that the invitation, after the silence and the moved up travel time, would've been a bitter pill to swallow, even if he didn't assume the worst.
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 19:09 by truestatic »
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #522 on: 15 Jan 2012, 20:01 »

It's amusing to reflect that this thread was only one page long for the first two days of its life.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #523 on: 15 Jan 2012, 20:26 »

No, I think he/she/it (purpleplatypus?  Where's Perry?) was doing it right - clearly indicating that their problems are not as intense as Marigoilds,

If Marigold's problems are "intense", then I'd wager at least 70 to 80 percent of humanity has "intense" problems.

Even allowing for comical exageration, the state of her room and resident vermin pre-Hanners can safely be called an intense problem. One definitely outside "70 to 80 percent of humanity".
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #524 on: 15 Jan 2012, 20:35 »


Marigirl's self-loathing is still present as far as we know.

Was that deliberate? I haven't noticed Marigold being called Marigirl before, but I may have missed it.

I agreed with the desire for a nickname but didn't like "Mar-bear". It has not caught on with anyone else.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #525 on: 15 Jan 2012, 20:35 »

I didn't say Marigold's problems were intense; I only pointed out that purpleplatypus felt that their problems were not as intense  as Marigold's seem to be.  It's a relative scale...

So stop judging me as being judgemental, please.   :angel:
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #526 on: 15 Jan 2012, 21:15 »

Even allowing for comical exageration, the state of her room and resident vermin pre-Hanners can safely be called an intense problem. One definitely outside "70 to 80 percent of humanity".

I wasn't under the impression that her room had returned to that state.
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #527 on: 15 Jan 2012, 21:28 »

Okay, so... now what?
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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #528 on: 15 Jan 2012, 21:49 »

Posts about the new comic have been moved to the new weekly thread -- they're not deleted.
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"Non-compliance is a social skill"
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Method of Madness

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #529 on: 15 Jan 2012, 22:18 »

(sorry for using the fomal plural pronoun, but damn it, I hate gendered English)
People who refuse to acknowledge the singular they can go :psyduck:* themselves.

*Cockney rhyming slang

(Man, I meant to post this like 8 hours ago but forgot to hit send.)
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Does anybody really know what time it is?
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #530 on: 15 Jan 2012, 23:28 »


I wasn't under the impression that her room had returned to that state.

Oh, there hasn't been any evidence that her room has returned to that. Dust is just trying to find something, anything at all, to disparage my absolute favorite QC character. About the only thing I've seen that even comes close was the egg incident.

And she was right! You SHOULD be able to subdivide!
« Last Edit: 15 Jan 2012, 23:36 by AnAverageWriter »
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lepetitfromage

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #531 on: 17 Jan 2012, 07:24 »


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Her need to develop her social skills alone is sufficient cause to see a therapist

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no need at ALL for anything close to a therapist.

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nowhere near the level of issues there that she does!

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Dust is just trying to find something, anything at all, to disparage my absolute favorite QC character.

Sorry in advance for the mini-rant....but the stigma attached to mental health issues really irritates me. The idea that by attending therapy, Marigold is somehow a bad person is absolutely ridiculous. THAT is why so many people that suffer from a mental illness don't seek treatment- they are afraid they're going to look "crazy". Neither her messy room nor her level of social skill make her a candidate for therapy. The fact that she may not be fully content with her current outlook/life situation might. She may have a clinical reason for her lack of social skills but I have a feeling that we'd probably know by now if she were to have a disorder in need of treatment. It seems to be thus far that Jeph is portraying her as having fewer interactions, which reflects on her abilities. Obviously, the more you do something the better you get at it- hence all the progress we've seen.

I think regardless of their situation, anyone could arguably benefit from therapy. People don't always NEED therapy as motivation to receive it. Sometimes people actually want to go to therapy because they know that it will improve their life. It's not all "lie-on-couch-tell-me-about-your-childhood" kinda stuff....oftentimes, it's more about self reflection, evaluation and life skills. Could Mari's life improve if she started? Sure, but so would anyone's. Because no one is perfect, it's safe to say that everyone could learn something from a few sessions. Let's not forget that people sometimes seek temporary therapy throughout particularly difficult times. Not everyone needs it, but most people could find something to talk about/some sort of personal issues to resolve.
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Is it cold in here?

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #532 on: 17 Jan 2012, 11:43 »

Freud defined mental health as the ability to love and to work. Marigirl works for a living, so she's got that down. Romantic love we don't really know about, due to her lack of opportunities. She clearly has sisterly love for Momo.
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"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

lepetitfromage

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Re: WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
« Reply #533 on: 17 Jan 2012, 12:50 »

Hmm....there are a lot of things Freud said that I don't agree with, but I do like that definition. I like to think of mental health as a spectrum- some of us are in better shape than others and our mental wellness varies just as much as our physical selves.
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