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Poll

What was... THE MOMENT OF THE WEEK?

Faye points out the obvious: you both had feelings for each other.
- 0 (0%)
What was I supposed to do? (Oh, I dunno, BE DECENT about it?)
- 1 (1.4%)
She was leaving. (You could have at LEAST said you tried.)
- 0 (0%)
Yeah, all that got you was your entire current life.
- 2 (2.7%)
It IS a waste, because you're WASTING it.
- 4 (5.5%)
You just owned me there...
- 2 (2.7%)
Being passive is his nature.
- 0 (0%)
You gotta DO Stuff.
- 1 (1.4%)
...break out the guitar.
- 1 (1.4%)
SOPA SUCKS.
- 8 (11%)
Pintsize apologizes.
- 1 (1.4%)
Pintsize was in MEXICO!
- 1 (1.4%)
McPedro and Choo-Choo Bear!
- 3 (4.1%)
Hannerdad's havin' a birthday!
- 5 (6.8%)
Can I bring Marten & Marigold?
- 3 (4.1%)
I KNOW Marten's safe.
- 0 (0%)
Marigold.... (FRRRRT)
- 7 (9.6%)
I'm PRETTY SURE she's not a secret robot.
- 5 (6.8%)
I have a question for you guys...
- 0 (0%)
See, it's my dad's birthday next week...
- 0 (0%)
Dad also said I could bring some friends with me...
- 1 (1.4%)
YES
- 28 (38.4%)

Total Members Voted: 64


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Author Topic: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope  (Read 62470 times)

PureLionHeart

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #50 on: 16 Jan 2012, 00:54 »

Yes Faye, Marten has ruined his entire life, forever, over this chick who was leaving anyway. Consequences will never be the same. If you can't successfully manage the grand romantic gesture of chasing after her as she boards the plan or drives out of town or whatever, you might as well just end it all. Pintsize probably has a gun somewhere.

Anywho, hopefully no more Padma, or that whole crew of clones for that matter.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #51 on: 16 Jan 2012, 01:00 »

Marten tends to be the injured party, if he is the bigger man it doesn't tend to help him much and when he isn't he gets yelled at.

And then everyone in the forum starts congratulating whoever it is that yelled at him, saying things like "good for XXXX, Marten needed that kick in the pants".

And on and on and so forth.

Now I'm not saying that Marten couldn't use a good honest talking to. I just think that he really doesn't need all the "kicks in the pants" that he's been getting, is all.

Do we really need to start congratulating people for kicking the strip's Charlie Brown after he's already missed the football?
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #52 on: 16 Jan 2012, 01:34 »

Can't believe nobody saw that line of argumentation a mile coming...

Jeph must be SO so much smarter than us. O
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #53 on: 16 Jan 2012, 02:40 »

After a mini-think, I guess this comic is a much more harsh version of the talk Dora had with Marten a while ago.

I don't really understand why this incident triggered Faye to full on blast Marten's life but I do think it would do him good to hear, "You could be doing so much more if you wanted to" again. If Marten was happy playing with the band once in a while, drinking coffee, hanging with friends and working in the library then that'd be grand. However so many times this has been said before that he's not fully satisfied.
Mini-note: My not-understanding of Faye's blasting is possibly just due to the last of Marten and Faye on screen hanging out lately. I love what the comic's been doing all the way through but I still miss them just hanging on the couch simply talking to each other.

There's a way to go about talking to people about big matters like this and I don't think this was the right way (if the goal is to not hurt feelings), although I can't say it's not effective.

Until the last panels I just read, "Boy was THAT waste!" as sarcasm, as in, "Yeah, trying is such a waste because it had such a huge impact on your life and got you to meet all your current friends and make your band."

As has been said though, life is a butterfly branching effect rather than a single chain so he could have ended up with a totally different or exactly the same life based on a lot of variables.

Also just because we were talking about it in the last thread, Faye's scar has a tiny appearance in panel 2B.
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #54 on: 16 Jan 2012, 03:00 »

Heh!

This may have been addressed but what happened to Faye's scar?

It's still there, but I just forget to draw it sometime. it has faded and only shows prominently at certain lighting angles.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #55 on: 16 Jan 2012, 03:00 »

The talk that Dora has given Marten is nowhere near as harsh as some people here are making out. Seriously. Marten is not as fragile a petal as all that. He will cope perfectly fine. It will snap him out of his self-imposed bout of victimhood and self-pity.

I also think that some people are overreading (who'd have gussed) Faye's comment that things worked out OK for Marten after moving to be with a girl. Faye was implying nothing about what might have happened otherwise, nor that there was some kind of repeatable cause and effect in motion - just that the choice he made, as it happened, turned out OK (contrary to Marten's implication that it didn't) - that's all. No need to invoke the butterfly effect or assume that she was trying to make some kind of deeper statement.

And why are people getting obsessed with fault and blame again? Today's comic is about nothing of the kind. Blimey.  :psyduck:

I find it amazing what other people get out of what is ostensibly the same comic. It does make the forums an interesting place to be, but wow.

One more thing before I hit the sack:

Do we really need to start congratulating people for kicking the strip's Charlie Brown after he's already missed the football?

He didn't miss the football - he didn't even bloody-well take a kick at it.

I'll resist the temptation to carry on and on now...  :roll:
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2012, 03:10 by Tova »
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #56 on: 16 Jan 2012, 04:51 »

And why are people getting obsessed with fault and blame again? Today's comic is about nothing of the kind. Blimey.  :psyduck:

It's what happens too often here and IRL. 
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Harlequin

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #57 on: 16 Jan 2012, 04:56 »

Why is it Marten's responsibility to be the "decent" one here and why is he being ragged on for not being good guy doormat Marten?

I understand the ideal, but again, when do other people need to start taking responsibility for their own emotions instead of just doing and expecting Marten to forgive them for it?
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #58 on: 16 Jan 2012, 05:06 »

He didn't miss the football - he didn't even bloody-well take a kick at it.

And that's a good thing, because the last time he "took a kick at it" he ended up flat on his back and feeling like a fool, alone on the far side of the country without his guitar.  Romantic gestures rarely end well.

One of the tricks to a happy life is knowing when to take a risk and when to not.  There was simply no upside for Marten in this case outside of the wildest romantic fantasies.  Padma pulled away from him, then decided at the last minute she'd like to see him again before she left. 

He decided he'd rather feel badly about not catering to her emotional needs than getting his own heart ripped up.  Sounds like a sensible decision to me, and one I wish I'd been more apt to make at his age.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #59 on: 16 Jan 2012, 05:15 »

Why is it Marten's responsibility to be the "decent" one here and why is he being ragged on for not being good guy doormat Marten?

I understand the ideal, but again, when do other people need to start taking responsibility for their own emotions instead of just doing and expecting Marten to forgive them for it?

Because, at least in this strip, it seems all right for every single female character to beat up on Marten with no repercussions at all. Of course, the lack of repercussions stems from the fact that Marten seems to never defend himself at all, instead choosing to just simply go along with anything being said about him (as we saw him respond to Faye's "owning" in the last strip). 

Marten is a doormat. Poor guy.
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Harlequin

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #60 on: 16 Jan 2012, 05:39 »


Because, at least in this strip, it seems all right for every single female character to beat up on Marten with no repercussions at all. Of course, the lack of repercussions stems from the fact that Marten seems to never defend himself at all, instead choosing to just simply go along with anything being said about him (as we saw him respond to Faye's "owning" in the last strip). 

Marten is a doormat. Poor guy.

I almost got lost in those links. Looks like a great website resource for anyone studying film :D

In any case, I don't remember every single comic done by Jeph, but I guess I'm feeling like no one goes to Marten and say something like "I understand, you have feelings too and it's ok to have them and to act on them." He just seems to constantly be held to this standard of sainthood which leaves him constantly getting dumped on.
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SomeCanadianWeirdo

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #61 on: 16 Jan 2012, 06:18 »

After a mini-think, I guess this comic is a much more harsh version of the talk Dora had with Marten a while ago.

I don't really understand why this incident triggered Faye to full on blast Marten's life

Perhaps Faye is talking to herself a bit a well.  After all she freaked out when Angus said he loved her, and for a bit it almost seemed like she was going to run away from him.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #62 on: 16 Jan 2012, 06:20 »

I almost got lost in those links. Looks like a great website resource for anyone studying film :D

Oh, you poor, misguided, young person.  :-D
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #63 on: 16 Jan 2012, 06:21 »

Quote
Marten talks himself up to quitting a job that was depressing him, he arrives to find out that he was fired and has no real options in terms of unemployment or pension. When Dora violated Martens privacy despite him all but falling to his knees to beg that she not do it, he calls her out on it and she insults him, storms out, and then breaks up with him deciding that it's better for her to be insecure and selfish than it is to pursue a mature relationship. When Martens mother browbeat, humiliated, lied to him, etc. when he was at a low point he finally had enough and told her off, only to have her tear viciously into him in front of friends, force HIM to apologize to her and to them, with neither of them standing up for him by the way (real nice friends there). Hell, Marten risked a lot to move across the country and it ended with head games and lonliness. Oh, and when Marten mentioned the idea of pursuing goals to a barber, the barber decided to give him the most creepy example of goal and fulfillment ever

And the list just gets longer as time goes on!
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Milesb

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #64 on: 16 Jan 2012, 06:37 »

It's got to be said that Faye is being hypocritical here.

She's had part of this chat before
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2025

In today's strip I am seeing Faye calling him out for not going to Padma and trying to do... something.. regardless of the fact Padma is leaving - is she saying he should have gone with her? I don't think so. How could he have convinced Padma to stay? She's booked the tickets, she's packed her bags. She's going.

But Marten isn't. Why should he have went over and potentially allowed himself to be hurt? It was his decision to minimise his exposure - not the most gallant of choices but certainly within the bounds of reason.

Thirdly, a comment about wasting a life is like: daaang! I know Faye's got Angus now and she's been doing her sculpture and stuff, but daaang man, Marten helped paved the way for her to be able to do that with her life by being a good friend, I would have hoped she'd have tried to do it back.

To be honest I actually think Marten should stand up to Faye. I don't know if anyone here agrees, but I think Faye is actually quite detrimental to Marten's personal development.

There's an example of it in today's comic. As the conversation between Faye and Marten here shows, as long as Marten plays to the back foot Faye just does her usual berating, but in panel 4 when Marten throws some sarcasm in there, gives her some cheek back - she proceeds to shut him down.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that Faye is part of the problem. Marten is pretty lame at making choices, but part of that is experience. He rarely asserts himself and every time he does, there's a huge explosion in response. As I said: experience is part of learning. What has Marten learned? to be a doormat. He only ever ends up in these situations now because his emotions get the better of him.

I'm not blaming Faye for Marten's behaviour, however Faye is part of the process (as all behaviour is contextualised by those around us) and she's not helping.

I genuinely think going with Padma would probably have been better for Marten's mental well being, if rather destructive towards QC as a comic.
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AnAverageWriter

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #65 on: 16 Jan 2012, 06:48 »

To be honest I actually think Marten should stand up to Faye. I don't know if anyone here agrees, but I think Faye is actually quite detrimental to Marten's personal development.
There's an example of it in today's comic. As the conversation between Faye and Marten here shows, as long as Marten plays to the back foot Faye just does her usual berating, but in panel 4 when Marten throws some sarcasm in there, gives her some cheek back - she proceeds to shut him down.

I agree with you here, and it just emphasizes Marten's doormattishness. And we see it happen, over and over again. Every single time that Marten stands up for himself, he is immediately squished and left miserable, hanging his head like a dog.
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NotAwesomeAnymore

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #66 on: 16 Jan 2012, 07:00 »

I'd be interested to see Marten in a relationship with someone as passive as him, or join a monastery, or something. Sometimes people have a lot of misfortune as a result of their "flaws", but then move on to another group and all of a sudden they're really happy and functional and then you go, "Oh shit, I was advising them to do the opposite of that for years..." It turns out their flaws were minimal, but they were incompatible with their situation or some of the people around them.

Example: I had a "no ambition" problem last year. (I chose this because of Marten and his lack of goals.) My older sister was really passionate about going to an American university, so she went out of her way to research a million programs, write the SATs and, like, 11 essays for a bunch of schools - this process is completely different from the South African one. She got in and was really happy so the plan was for me to do the same. I consider myself pretty academically excited, but I friggin' hated it. I didn't want to research universities, or look at applications, or study for the SATs or even talk about it - it didn't matter what my family tried to make me more excited, I was a total bum about it. When I decided to go to a South African school instead, my attitude completely changed and I had the whole thing sorted out in about a day. I'm still not sure why - maybe I'm patriotic, maybe I'm more homebound, maybe I like certainty - but it just fit.

tl;dr There's a balance between a person's personal issues and their external environment, and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference, and sometimes the answer is surprising!  

EDIT: This isn't to say that Marten's current environment (i.e. his friends, etc.) need to change themselves, but that it would be interesting to see him in another environment.
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2012, 07:09 by NotAwesomeAnymore »
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El_Flesh

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #67 on: 16 Jan 2012, 07:07 »

Ya, he's quite the marshmallow when chix get pissed at him.

I think he did entirely right in blowing PandaBear off  - she asked for it.
I think he should have never allowed Faye to move in, or else moved out when it was clear she wasn't going to be with him after all.

Unless he's still got her on the back burner in his mind...
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #68 on: 16 Jan 2012, 07:23 »

OK, here's a thought for all the "Marten did the right thing" folks. 

If it's right, why the bitter acrimony?  Why the self loathing?  Why does he feel like he was being an asshole (his  words, not Faye's)? 

He should have seen Padma one last time, to talk.  To say goodbye to a person who'd opened up to him.  To ask what had happened that she decided to step back.  I think her call to "hang out" was at least partly her wanting to talk, to explain, to seek some kind of resolution for/with this guy she'd inadvertantly hurt by her own bad choices.  To understand a potential friend a little better. 

It didn't need to be a roll in the hay, and maybe he wouldn't be feeling so much self loathing right now that he goes and gets Faye to metaphorically whack him upside the head (it really was self inflicted, if you think about it). 

To carry the metaphor someone started, he didn't need to try kicking the football again, OR to ignore it.  The football was never the issue.  he needed to have a heart-to-heart with Lucy.  It may not have worked out, but maybe he'd find out what the hell she was thinking, and not hate himself so much for his actions!
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NotAwesomeAnymore

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #69 on: 16 Jan 2012, 07:30 »

+1
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Harlequin

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #70 on: 16 Jan 2012, 07:52 »

OK, here's a thought for all the "Marten did the right thing" folks. 

If it's right, why the bitter acrimony?  Why the self loathing?  Why does he feel like he was being an asshole (his  words, not Faye's)? 

He should have seen Padma one last time, to talk.  To say goodbye to a person who'd opened up to him.  To ask what had happened that she decided to step back.  I think her call to "hang out" was at least partly her wanting to talk, to explain, to seek some kind of resolution for/with this guy she'd inadvertantly hurt by her own bad choices.  To understand a potential friend a little better. 

It didn't need to be a roll in the hay, and maybe he wouldn't be feeling so much self loathing right now that he goes and gets Faye to metaphorically whack him upside the head (it really was self inflicted, if you think about it). 

To carry the metaphor someone started, he didn't need to try kicking the football again, OR to ignore it.  The football was never the issue.  he needed to have a heart-to-heart with Lucy.  It may not have worked out, but maybe he'd find out what the hell she was thinking, and not hate himself so much for his actions!

1. "Opened up?" How? If anything she closed herself off. She made her choices. Time to live with them. Her feelings and peace of mind aren't Marten's responsibility.

2. Lucy's on a plane leaving the state to never be heard from again (hopefully).

3. Who cares about Lucy's motivations? She does what she does. Lucy either doesn't know what she does to Chuck or doesn't care.  The football isn't the issue. The issue is Lucy pulling the football away from him after setting him up for the kick. It's not Chuck's responsibility to initiate a heart-to-heart with Lucy. It's his responsibility to do what is best for him in the face of someone who is hurting him. Either way, it's not good for Chuck. Good riddance to Lucy.

4. Switch roles and Marten would be earning the ire that people are expressing for Pad... just more intensely. Yay for gendered expectations of men always being in the wrong.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #71 on: 16 Jan 2012, 09:14 »

Ok, so... just one question.

If Faye realised all the stuff she said in the first panel... why in god's name did she not tell him that back in 2095. or 2098?

It seems an oddly specific analysis if it just hit her right then. And if it did hit her right then, why would she have expected it to hit him earlier?
That was Jeph doubling down on 'Marten's a jerk.'
He tried to put the jerk hat on Marten, but encountered two problems.  The first is that it wasn't consistent with who Marten is, and the second is that it wasn't consistent with what he'd done.  So he had to hammer home why Marten was a Bad Guy for leaving poor Padma sad and forlorn instead of... what, going to talk to her?
What would they have talked about?  What are the odds this talk would have left them feeling better? Really.
Best case, he's the Best Guy In The World (tm) and she leaves feeling like he's a really sweet guy.
This is a good outcome?  Would she feel worse leaving the Best Guy In The World (tm), or a guy who turned out to be, at the end, just a guy.
Worst case, he gets angry at being avoided for a week and then having her spring this on him last minutes.  He's human and people get angry when they are hurt.
Both of them are hurting.
There is no possibility of the relationship continuing.
Should he drag it out?
Oh, and on that 'both of them are hurting' note.  Both are hurting, but one of them has a 'friend' slapping him repeatedly when he already feels terrible.
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Milesb

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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #72 on: 16 Jan 2012, 09:16 »

OK, here's a thought for all the "Marten did the right thing" folks.  

If it's right, why the bitter acrimony?  Why the self loathing?  Why does he feel like he was being an asshole (his  words, not Faye's)?  

Because sometimes the right thing isn't emotionally pleasing. Because sometimes, as much as I'm sure we all wish it wasn't, the right thing to do isn't always particularly nice.

There is almost always a better way to do things. He could have handled it better I entirely agree, but what he did doesn't seem out and out wrong to me.

My argument is that Faye is a environmental factor that only reinforces his current behaviour - She's not drawing out his reasoning and breaking it down in a constructive way, she's essentially pushing him until he gives in and bottles it up again.

And then, somewhere down the line it'll all come flooding out, and if Faye is there to facilitate it, he'll bottle it all up again.

She's not actually helping him at all. Nobody says she has to (although I think as his friend, we'd hope she would) - Faye is quite clearly capable of thinking situations through, as with her resolutions with Dora and her relationship issues with Angus - she just doesn't seem to want to extend that to Marten.

It sucks.

Edit/Quote:
tl;dr There's a balance between a person's personal issues and their external environment, and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference, and sometimes the answer is surprising!  

EDIT: This isn't to say that Marten's current environment (i.e. his friends, etc.) need to change themselves, but that it would be interesting to see him in another environment.

I completely agree man, and I don't see how Marten -can- develop in this circle of people without it turning into a blood bath. I think writing Marten out for a few months would be a breath of fresh air for character development (Marigold and Momo especially) and would give Marten the ability to come back with some peace of mind and some belief in himself under his belt.

But that'll never happen, yo!
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2012, 09:41 by Milesb »
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #73 on: 16 Jan 2012, 10:03 »

The weirdest future I can think of is that Marten gets a wise and inspiring talk from Pintsize.

Why is everyone acting like this was the last chance to set things right with Padma? I haven't checked this myself, but it seems likely that there is phone service in LA.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #74 on: 16 Jan 2012, 10:12 »

Why would Padma even take his calls after all that's gone on between them? Her past behavior suggests she won't.

Still, Faye better be careful. Marten might decide, if moving one time worked out, to do it again. And Faye would NOT like that....
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #75 on: 16 Jan 2012, 10:30 »

I thought Monday's comic has been an excellent development in how two real people would converse. I think that Marte n is the right one in this situation - chasing someone down when its true that the person is an adult and capable of saying "Hey, I'm scared. I'm sorry." is the doormat thing to do. Sometimes people mess up and need to figure out that there are consequences to that. Faye's attack was unwarranted but honestly I can see why she'd see things the way she does. She is in a place where her self-adjustment of her comfort zone has benefitted her. She assumes that somehow him taking a chance (like she did) will pull him out of the funk.

I suspect that a talk with Dora, Hanners, or Angus will allow her to see that she wasn't right in this case. Furthermore, it disturbs me how her and Dora feel the need to direct his love life... I suspect partially out of the guilt of their own rejection of him. Its one of those situations where friends feel the need to help out when they really cannot. Nobody's life choices warrant this version of a "pep talk".

Either way, Padma was hardly the last woman Marten will love. They had a connection, but how many of those do we all have in a lifetime? He's like 23 or something, he has time to find someone worth chasing... Or someone mature enough to not be chased.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #76 on: 16 Jan 2012, 10:44 »

I meant that Padma has the theoretical option of calling Marten.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #77 on: 16 Jan 2012, 10:47 »

 :mrgreen: I present to you, ladies and gentlemen

the beginnings of an entire week

of a forum echo chamber

on Marten's quality of life

because that has never been debated to death before

BONUS ROUND: comparisons to Charlie Brown, also new and unique

Score combo points by making the same argument someone made/rebutted two pages ago

Score SUPER COMBOs by making the case that Faye is somehow physically/mentally abusive or is toxic to him
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2012, 11:00 by Dr. ROFLPWN »
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #78 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:06 »

The Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?

Pinky: I think so Brain, but Marigold doesn't own a chimpanzee!

OR

Pinky: Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - argue about questionable content!

Pretty much sums up the WCDT =)
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #79 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:11 »

"Have you ever been to the New York Legislature, Mr. Hancock? Everyone speaks very loud and very fast, and no one listens to anyone else, and so nothing ever gets done."
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #80 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:13 »

I suspect that a talk with Dora, Hanners, or Angus will allow her to see that she wasn't right in this case.

The problem is that this will never happen. In my opinion, at least, Faye (almost) always gets to walk away thinking that she is in the right with everything she does or says. I'm not going to say that she is completely "toxic" to him, but I totally agree that we sometimes have people in our lives that pull us back or keep us down when we are trying to progress and/or break out of unhealthy behaviors. Usually this is not intentional. It doesn't make the other person a "bad person." It just means that what people need out of relationships/friendships change, but the people in our lives are not going to automatically change accordingly.

I do think Marten needs a kick in the pants, but I don't think that what Faye said was a HELPFUL kick in the pants. It was just hurtful and not really based on anything. Yes, he probably DOES feel like he is wasting his life. Is this all because of or related to Padma? No way! He was already feeling that way. His decision for how to handle things with Padma-- a relationship that never really took off and was confusing for him from the beginning-- was him trying to do something different. Learning and making mistakes is not a waste and will hopefully help him grow as an individual.

It will be harder for him to do that if every time he does make a decision one or another of his friends makes him feel horrible for it. Marten is a nice guy. It isn't fair to imply that he isn't decent because of this situation.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #81 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:23 »

"Have you ever been to the New York Legislature, Mr. Hancock? Everyone speaks very loud and very fast, and no one listens to anyone else, and so nothing ever gets done."

....I think you may understand what I was saying, sir, and I tip my metaphorical hat to you


OK, here's a thought for all the "Marten did the right thing" folks.  

If it's right, why the bitter acrimony?  Why the self loathing?  Why does he feel like he was being an asshole (his  words, not Faye's)?  

He should have seen Padma one last time, to talk.  To say goodbye to a person who'd opened up to him.  To ask what had happened that she decided to step back.  I think her call to "hang out" was at least partly her wanting to talk, to explain, to seek some kind of resolution for/with this guy she'd inadvertantly hurt by her own bad choices.  To understand a potential friend a little better.  

It didn't need to be a roll in the hay, and maybe he wouldn't be feeling so much self loathing right now that he goes and gets Faye to metaphorically whack him upside the head (it really was self inflicted, if you think about it).  

To carry the metaphor someone started, he didn't need to try kicking the football again, OR to ignore it.  The football was never the issue.  he needed to have a heart-to-heart with Lucy.  It may not have worked out, but maybe he'd find out what the hell she was thinking, and not hate himself so much for his actions!

Carl I'd like to offer you a metaphorical drink because what a fantastic post that is being roundly ignored for not fitting the all-important party line


Is it cold in here? I was remiss in the last thread in not congratulating you as well as Mr. Hodges for your tireless, thankless, constant moderation efforts; that was wrong of me and I do recognize your work :( I hope you will forgive my mistake, and I envy neither of you gentlemen, you keep this forum existing at all, I am fairly certain


Anyway, I'm taking up important time that could be used for echo chamber so I believe I bid you adieu!
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #82 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:29 »

I do think Marten needs a kick in the pants, but I don't think that what Faye said was a HELPFUL kick in the pants. It was just hurtful and not really based on anything.

I have this to say: she owned him pretty hard, but giving a supportive kick in the arse isn't about delivering ownage. The idea is that the kick should spur the friend into positive action, not knock the wind out of them and leave them deflated.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #83 on: 16 Jan 2012, 11:56 »

... one can dream. Personally I find Padma as a black clone of Dora who is quite dim at times very annoying.

Odd thing to fixate on, but I thought Padma was Indian? At least that's what the facial traits and name came off as to me. Plus, Indian culture is extremely family-centric, as well, even for many families living in other cultures.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #84 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:00 »

I definitely think Faye gave Marten the proverbial kick he needed at this stage.

Not that I'm saying Padma isn't without fault here, but I get the feeling that our little Indian Dora Clone has her own issues - probably just as bad as Dora - But Marten sometimes gets my goat as he acts like such a passive milquetoast sometimes.  He really should have taken the high ground and confronted Padma about the whole thing rather than letting it fizzle like this.  Sometimes I wonder if he squeaks and likes cheese the way he acts.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #85 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:14 »

I definitely think Faye gave Marten the proverbial kick he needed at this stage.

Not that I'm saying Padma isn't without fault here, but I get the feeling that our little Indian Dora Clone has her own issues - probably just as bad as Dora - But Marten sometimes gets my goat as he acts like such a passive milquetoast sometimes.  He really should have taken the high ground and confronted Padma about the whole thing rather than letting it fizzle like this.  Sometimes I wonder if he squeaks and likes cheese the way he acts.

I personally think the fact that everyone kicks Marten regardless of if he's down or up is part of the reason he's so passive. And he'd still be getting a kicking for being a jerk to her if he had indeed taken the high ground. That's the point, quite often no matter what he does, he loses. I pity him.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #86 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:18 »

In Faye's defense, she probably would have yelled at Padma if she'd been around (though I'm surprised Faye didn't go to tSB after Marten mentioned Padma wasn't returning his calls-maybe she actually though Marten could and should handle it), but since she's long gone, only Marten's around to catch the Wrath of Faye, too bad for him.

Still, it would serve Faye right if Marten decided to shake things up and take a chance by following Padma back to CA. I highly doubt she'll take his calls now, he'll have to go out there if he really wants to talk to her.

I personally think the fact that everyone kicks Marten regardless of if he's down or up is part of the reason he's so passive. And he'd still be getting a kicking for being a jerk to her if he had indeed taken the high ground. That's the point, quite often no matter what he does, he loses. I pity him.

Yeah I'm starting to agree with you-looks like Jeph meant it when he said he was writing out any possibility of happiness for Marten in this comic. Which of course means any attempt of his to reach Padma will most likely also end in abject failure.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #87 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:28 »

I am actually wondering how many kicks in the pants Marten needs... He's had several and is still in the same rut. I'm not sure what this means needs to happen. But one more kick and I'll probs join the Marten's-life-is-unfair party.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #88 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:32 »

I definitely think Faye gave Marten the proverbial kick he needed at this stage.

Not that I'm saying Padma isn't without fault here, but I get the feeling that our little Indian Dora Clone has her own issues - probably just as bad as Dora - But Marten sometimes gets my goat as he acts like such a passive milquetoast sometimes.  He really should have taken the high ground and confronted Padma about the whole thing rather than letting it fizzle like this.  Sometimes I wonder if he squeaks and likes cheese the way he acts.

I personally think the fact that everyone kicks Marten regardless of if he's down or up is part of the reason he's so passive. And he'd still be getting a kicking for being a jerk to her if he had indeed taken the high ground. That's the point, quite often no matter what he does, he loses. I pity him.

I'm not sure it isn't the other way around and the reason everyone kicks him is that he is so passive that they just trying to get him to do something.


Edit: I'd pity him more, but a good chunk of the disasters that hit him are formed of his own actions and inactions.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #89 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:39 »

I'm not sure it isn't the other way around and the reason everyone kicks him is that he is so passive that they just trying to get him to do something.

Edit: I'd pity him more, but a good chunk of the disasters that hit him are formed of his own actions and inactions.

You have a good point, but at some point someone has to stop and ask themselves if their actions - kicking him, as we seem to have termed it - have ever actually helped him. Marten has no control over other's actions, so it's not down to him if they do it or not.

I also agree he's not very good at dealing with situations in his life. It comes back down to the fact he bottles things up, because every time he does try and do something, people kick him. He tends to only act in such situations when he's very emotionally wound up, because then he can't bottle it - that's definitely a recipe for disaster.

He actually kind of needs therapy.

Edit: Or one day he's going to snap.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #90 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:41 »

Yeah I'm starting to agree with you-looks like Jeph meant it when he said he was writing out any possibility of happiness for Marten in this comic. Which of course means any attempt of his to reach Padma will most likely also end in abject failure.
Jeph said that? I get that he is the god of the comic, but it seems odd to target a character like that. Even relatively unlucky people get a break sometimes, and while Marty is a manatee, he isn't evil enough to never deserve happiness.

Anyway, I guess we'll see how it plays out. If I were Marten, I'd take this as a "missed opportunity" and focus on enjoying singledom. He needs to work on himself and his interests more, the last few hundred comics have been far too focused on his relationships. I do get that a few comics of him playing around with music programs might not inspire readership, but I really could use a bit more lulz and happy beer sledding times, not one more current of OH NO DRAMA. It isn't my comic at all, so I'll just send my wishes of a more relaxed arc into the universe.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #91 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:42 »

Ok, am I right in thinking that since most people completely ignored my post... that no one else finds it odd that Faye has a near psychic understanding of why Padma did what she did, but didn't seem to think it was a good idea to tell Marten until after it was too late?

Obliviousness is what caused everything with the way this broke down. Marten didn't realise she cared, she didn't realise Marten cared. If Faye was aware of what was going on... why didn't she tell him? Why did she let him think that she didn't want anything to do with him (or jokingly suggest she had the shits) rather than just say what she suspected.

The whole current comic comes off as though it came from a reader, someone who has the all seeing eye perspective to know whats going on, rather than a character whose only perspective is what Marten has told her, and when you look at it if she did have these insights... it really looks silly for her to be berating him.

All I know is if she had just dropped all of that bomb on me in a similar situation, my response wouldn't be "ow you owned me" it would be "Why didn't you tell me that?"
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #92 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:47 »

A HUG!!!  MY GOD, CAN SOMEONE JUST GIVE THE POOR GUY A HUG?!?!?

*preferably one that doesn't end in a tweaked nipple.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #93 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:48 »

Marten has already snapped, in the post-Dora binge when he did something we couldn't see that put Faye into Security Override mode.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #94 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:53 »

Yeah I'm starting to agree with you-looks like Jeph meant it when he said he was writing out any possibility of happiness for Marten in this comic.
Jeph said that?

Yes, he did; but I presume it was not necessarily for all time, and was expressed to tease his readers.  It's also worth remembering that Marten has been pretty happy (with a couple of brief upsets) for something like two thirds of the history of QC; it would not be out of scale for another 500 strips to pass before he sorts himself out and finds his next stable relationship.

All I know is if she had just dropped all of that bomb on me in a similar situation, my response wouldn't be "ow you owned me"

I think that response was to her reminder about wasting his present life, not the previous bit about working it out with Padma.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #95 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:53 »

Ayup.

Marten needs to watch Anger Management and have that epiphany that suppressing until an explosion happens is not constructive.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #96 on: 16 Jan 2012, 12:55 »

Ok, am I right in thinking that since most people completely ignored my post... that no one else finds it odd that Faye has a near psychic understanding of why Padma did what she did, but didn't seem to think it was a good idea to tell Marten until after it was too late?
Faye may have realized what Padma was thinking, but may have not realized that Marten didn't, which is probably why she was so surprised that Marten reacted the way he did.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #97 on: 16 Jan 2012, 13:00 »

You could argue that despite her kicking Marten right now, it wasn't in her interests for them to actually meet up and realize they love each other.

Marten might have left with Padma, and Faye doesn't want that.

I'm not saying she did it deliberately, but she might have just felt that she had no real inclination to fix their relationship.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #98 on: 16 Jan 2012, 13:03 »

I hope not.  That's kind of horrible.
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Re: WCDT 2101-2105 (January 16-20, 2012) - A New Hope
« Reply #99 on: 16 Jan 2012, 13:12 »

I hope not.  That's kind of horrible.

No lie, especially considering how much she just eviscerated him. 
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