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More Marigold Awkward Sex Talk!

6 (8%)

More Claire/Clinton Fighting!

5 (6.7%)

Hannelore Draws Moar Kittehs!

9 (12%)

Marten Is Amused!

9 (12%)

Faye and Angus - The Beginning of The End!

4 (5.3%)

Dora/Tai - The Next Day!

18 (24%)

Emily and Gabby do something weird!

11 (14.7%)

Another New Meme Attempt!

4 (5.3%)

An Old Meme Returns! (Waffles! Spathe Ham! LASERS!)

1 (1.3%)

Hitting the F5 key repeatedly to see if Jeph's updated the strip yet!

8 (10.7%)

Total Members Voted: 68

[Dust]

the rules of the universe are being rewritten, and now terms like "owner" are badly politically incorrect.

The problem that leads to the differing points of view in the forum is that the QC world has undergone fundamental changes in the relationship between humans and AIs as Jeph has explored this interest of his more deeply.  As the time represented in the whole of QC is no more than about two years, this means either that the situation in the QC universe has only just changed - in which case Emily falling into old habits of speaking is not surprising - or that the current QC universe is not the same as that represented in the earlier comics - in which case confusion among the readers is not surprising.

Agreed - we've gone from Pintsize talking about "when the Singularity happens" to it apparently having occurred off-panel at some point. While shops still sell Anthros.. or just various chassis options. (I don't know - it's been a long time since an archive binge, maybe I've forgotten things.)

[marsman57]

I think if the singularity has occurred, we are also in a period of exponentially accelerating change. As a result of this, the world has been remolded from the earlier strips.

It doesn't really make sense though. The characterizations of AnthroPCs have changed a lot over the course of the comic. I am not sure if this is a result of Jeph having not thought it out fully before or if things are happening the background that we do not see. As much as I like Marten, Faye, Dora, Hanners, etc., none of them are very political or cognizant of the world beyond their own town. The result of this is that while "Big Things" are happening the world, we are not seeing it.

In the era where PintSize was created, it seems that an AnthroPC was seen as more of a commodity to be treated with as the owner pleased. Marten was kind of on the vanguard of well treatment though by holding Pintsize as nearly an equal. He never saw him as just a commodity, so his behavior was not very much shifted by the legislation. This may be part of why we do not see much on the change being made.

Additionally, Pintsize seems to be pleased with their relationship and seems inclined to avoid the responsibility that comes with being considered a full equal. I am guessing that a lot of other AnthroPCs feel that way as well and keep to the "old ways" of interaction in the new world.

Some speculated that Marten was an early adopter of the AnthroPC, possibly given one by his parents. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5 seems to support that notion with Faye not being shocked, but at least mildly surprised by his presence in the  way one might have said "Whoa, you got an iPhone?" a few years ago. Also, Pintsize's reaction seems to indicate that he is basic even at that point.

I'm kind of rambling here, but something fundamentally has changed in AnthroPC/human relations in the comic, but it's hard to pin if Jeph had a specific plan for that to occur on the timeline of the comic or if the change is just the result of him fleshing out his world building a bit more than he had in 2003.

As an aside, it seems to me that Momo's personality pretty significantly changed when she got her new chassis. Maybe she thinks of herself as "more human" now that she is in a human-sized body? If I had time, I'd like to archive binge to compare the behaviors.

[cesariojpn]

A number of things would be explained if Pintsize were a hand-me-down from Veronica Vance, though in that case I'd expect him to have learned to be better behaved.

Then again, I loathe to wonder if he was owned by Veronica. Imagine the implications if Pintsize knew the guy in the photo.

[Carl-E]

Re:  What is Momo uploading?

1)  The overdue books list, complete with ID pictures, so she can corner the students who come in without returning said items. 

2)  The updates to the victorian porn collection.  Tai assigned her to be the the "go-to" girl for that information, probably becauses of the creeps who ask about it and Momo's defense system...

Whatever it is, I'm betting it's work-related.  She's just that kind of girl AnPC. 

[Somebody]

I guess one question to ask in response to this is, what sort of processing power do AnthroPCs have? The sorts of AI being displayed here is mind-bogglingly complex (yes, even Pintsize), and depending on how "recent" AI advances are in the QCverse, it would take a buttload of processing power, RAM and storage space to contain and manage it.

Allegedly, Pintsize only had 512Mb and Winslow 1Gb! http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=629

(If we're talking about "hidden retcons", I'm pretty sure that'll have been changed silently...)

[ASmellyOgre]

I seem to remember something or another about anthroPCs not being an innovation of hardware, but software.  In the real world, we essentially try to brute-force brain simulations with nuron-like programs on super computers in order to create artificial intelligence.  In QC, some people were dicking around making a set of programs that interact with each other and somehow (as of the the time of the UN hearing over it they weren't sure how) it gave rise to a level of organization roughly equivalent in power and complexity to a human brain.  Regular computer, but extraordinary software.  It kind of reminds me of the AI in the Ender series or possibly Ghost in the Shell.  How that could happen realistically, I have no idea (I don't care how many processors you shove in a computer or cluster, it isn't going to remotely touch the processing capabilities of a human brain), but QC isn't exactly the most hard sci-fi out there, so whatever.

[Vurogj]

Vaguely related : Unreal Tournament bots "pass" Turing test

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-09/uota-aig092612.php

[Is it cold in here?]

Momo had only 97 TB of disk space in her original chassis. Even we are within two orders of magnitude of that today.

AI might just be a software breakthrough, but particular functions like vision and speech recognition take a lot of processing power.

Portable AIs mat be new, but Station was capable of outperforming human psychiatrists back when Hannelore was a young child.

[celticgeek]

I would have thought that Emily, who is a computer science major, would be aware of these things.

Well, cat gifs does explain it.

I think that the statistics show that 9.7 % of Internet usage is cat gifs, and the rest is spam. 

[Mothykins]

Any idea how long AIs have existed in QC-time?

[Method of Madness]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

[Mothykins]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

Word of God. If Jeph says it's insulting within the canon universe, then it is. It may not be offensive irl, but in QC, Jeph is the creator. He decides how things are, and so long as they don't infringe too badly on our willing suspension of disbelief, we have no reason not to accept them.

[jwhouk]

Any idea how long AIs have existed in QC-time?

It sounds, from that little UN speech Jeph provided earlier this year, that AI's have been in existence roughly since the late 1990's, about 1997-98 or so.

Personal theory would say that Station was the first AI.

[Method of Madness]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

Word of God. If Jeph says it's insulting within the canon universe, then it is. It may not be offensive irl, but in QC, Jeph is the creator. He decides how things are, and so long as they don't infringe too badly on our willing suspension of disbelief, we have no reason not to accept them.

Only if you accept the concept of Word of God, which you are under no obligation to do.

[Mothykins]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

Word of God. If Jeph says it's insulting within the canon universe, then it is. It may not be offensive irl, but in QC, Jeph is the creator. He decides how things are, and so long as they don't infringe too badly on our willing suspension of disbelief, we have no reason not to accept them.

Only if you accept the concept of Word of God, which you are under no obligation to do.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. If Jeph is the creator of the QC world, and he says something exists, and it doesn't contradict any earlier-established facts, how is the new statement not fact within that world?

[PthariensFlame]

Any idea how long AIs have existed in QC-time?

At least since cat GIFs.

[Method of Madness]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

Word of God. If Jeph says it's insulting within the canon universe, then it is. It may not be offensive irl, but in QC, Jeph is the creator. He decides how things are, and so long as they don't infringe too badly on our willing suspension of disbelief, we have no reason not to accept them.

Only if you accept the concept of Word of God, which you are under no obligation to do.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. If Jeph is the creator of the QC world, and he says something exists, and it doesn't contradict any earlier-established facts, how is the new statement not fact within that world?

Because QC canon is stuff that happens in QC. Stuff Jeph says about QC is stuff Jeph says about QC.  He has every right to say what he wants, and it's interesting to think about, but the two are not equal.  The new statement is fact within the world if and when he implements it within the world.

[Mothykins]

I agree with you,  I didn't think it was insulting at all.  But Jeph thinks it is, so therefore it is.  I must accept it.

No, if Jeph thinks it is, then Jeph thinks it is. You don't have to accept anything.

Word of God. If Jeph says it's insulting within the canon universe, then it is. It may not be offensive irl, but in QC, Jeph is the creator. He decides how things are, and so long as they don't infringe too badly on our willing suspension of disbelief, we have no reason not to accept them.

Only if you accept the concept of Word of God, which you are under no obligation to do.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. If Jeph is the creator of the QC world, and he says something exists, and it doesn't contradict any earlier-established facts, how is the new statement not fact within that world?

Because QC canon is stuff that happens in QC. Stuff Jeph says about QC is stuff Jeph says about QC.  He has every right to say what he wants, and it's interesting to think about, but the two are not equal.  The new statement is fact within the world if and when he implements it within the world.

Mm, fair point. I guess what's canon for one person is opinion for another. Sort of a "your mileage may vary" deal.

[DSL]

Something that illustrates the difference: Jeph creates the "tweets" for the QC characters Twitter accounts, but says himself the tweets aren't *necessarily* canon.

Unless, you know, they provide an opportunity for something to happen in the strip.

[mustang6172]

Comic #70:  Marten threatens to blank Pintsize's hard drive with a magnet.  Where's the contract in that?

[jwhouk]

I suspect that, in terms that WE would understand, the AI personality is the actual "being", whereas the AnthroPC "chassis" is the physical form that the AI takes.

When Pintsize was "backed up" onto Marten's computer, I suspect most of his memory was actually stored in "The AI Cloud".

Hannelore (in strip 1506) tells Winslow, "Basically, the first artificial mind came together from a combination of non-sentient software and hardware. Once we figured out that combination, it was easy to reproduce, and that's where all you little guys came from!"

Artificial intelligences are created in a virtual environment, where they are stored in a "creche" of other AIs in their generation. When bootstrapped to self-awareness, they are given a choice of function- commercial use (AnthroPCs), military, scientific, etc, or allowed to subsume in the global meta-AI. If they choose to go into "retail" they are allowed to choose a self-identity and are shipped to a reputable "dealer" (such as Idoru, in today's strip) where they are put up for "sale."

   Purchase of an AI is not a binding contract- either party is free to terminate the relationship at any time, and the transaction agent will refund the contract fee. The use of terms like "sale" and "owner" are considered offensive by some, and are becoming rather politically incorrect (my use of them here is solely for sake of comparison, hence the quotation marks).

   One would think that the majority of AIs would choose to simply be given a chassis and left to make their own way in the world, but the majority who do not go into a specialized profession choose to pair up with a human "owner." There has been much speculation by both humans and AIs as to the reason for this- no aspect of their programming indicates a cause for such a bias. The general consensus is that the average AI simply finds your average human entertaining, and enjoys the companionship.

[Carl-E]

Any idea how long AIs have existed in QC-time?

Since strip no. 1   

Comic #70:  Marten threatens to blank Pintsize's hard drive with a magnet.  Where's the contract in that?

I think that's a lot like when my folks threatened to hang us by our toenails... an extreme threat used on misbehaving children. 

[Near Lurker]

1996.

[Kugai]

 

[jwhouk]

1996.

I take that as an implication from how old Hannelore is?

[PthariensFlame]

1996.

I take that as an implication from how old Hannelore is?

Didn't Jeph outright say in a fairly recent below-comic comment that "They've had AI since 1996"?  I distinctly remember that, but my archive-fu is terribly weak.

[no one special]

So AnthroPC's serve a completely different emotional purpose than regular computers.

This is not entirely clear-cut.  Marten uses his computer to back up Pintsize; but when he is starting his music blog (Yelling about Music), he dictates into Pintsize, not the computer.

It's pretty damned clear-cut.  No one said that AnthroPC's never performed any computer-like tasks for their humans AT ALL - but no one treats their laptop as an equal in this world.  That's the point. 

For what it's worth, at the time of her chassis upgrade, Momo was 2.7 years old.  (See strips 1995 and 2009)

Welcome, judemorrigan!  That's some excellent archive-fu, especially for your first post!  I applaud you. 

Something that illustrates the difference: Jeph creates the "tweets" for the QC characters Twitter accounts, but says himself the tweets aren't *necessarily* canon.

But the tweets are little minutiae and stuff like that, they aren't necessarily going to be canon.  This is a major societal shift we're talking about - Jeph's word is indeed as good as gold in this case, since he's the one who DEFINES this freakin' world.     

[DSL]

Something that illustrates the difference: Jeph creates the "tweets" for the QC characters Twitter accounts, but says himself the tweets aren't *necessarily* canon.

But the tweets are little minutiae and stuff like that, they aren't necessarily going to be canon.  This is a major societal shift we're talking about - Jeph's word is indeed as good as gold in this case, since he's the one who DEFINES this freakin' world.   

Yes, and to the extent that Jeph has put it in the strip, it's canon. Unless Jeph supersedes it with something else in the strip. Anything else is as plastic as Jeph wants it to be.
"Minutiae" vs. "major societal shift" doesn't define canon; "In the strip" vs. "Not in the strip" does, no matter the magnitude.

[WAYF]

Judging from Emily's Twitter account and the recent comics, Emily is the philosophical, almost Luna-Lovegood type member of the cast.
(Sorry if calling her a Luna Lovegood type sounds like I'm calling it derivative, but the alternative is linking to TV Tropes...)

I actually quite like that.
Her superpower is philosophizing about the universe in a non-pretentious way, and she is powered by banana smoothies.

[pwhodges]

And so now Jeph is worrying about whether his present AI musings are consistent with his earlier ones!

[jwhouk]

Pretty sure it's not. It makes sense that most of the computing power goes towards maintaining sentience.

[iduguphergrave]

Judging from Emily's Twitter account and the recent comics, Emily is the philosophical, almost Luna-Lovegood type member of the cast.
(Sorry if calling her a Luna Lovegood type sounds like I'm calling it derivative, but the alternative is linking to TV Tropes...)

I actually quite like that.
Her superpower is philosophizing about the universe in a non-pretentious way, and she is powered by banana smoothies.

Emily is like Luna cranked up to and past 11. Seriously, I'm pretty sure Emily's surpassed her in terms of her amazingly weak grasp on reality.

[akronnick]

See, now, I always thought Hannelore was the Luna of the group.

Luna even has a little she-hulk moment at Harry in the last film.

[DSL]

Hannelore is the Luna of the group.
The grad students are Hannelore's Lunas.

[Sylentknight]

Since time moves slower in QC, the need to go back and change things so that changes in technology or scientific theory fit within the story's time frame, is acceptable.
As for Emily, I think her ability to see Anthro PC's for what they truly are brings something new to the story. She's like an extra-terrestrial, observing us, without the clutter of accepted norms. I look forward to her first interactions with Pint-size.
( I also wonder if she may be an experimental anthro PC.)

[Akima]

I find myself wondering why Emily, or anyone else, is still studying computer science in the QC-verse. Wouldn't machine sentience have made it obsolete? I suppose it could be as an art-form, rather as people still practice calligraphy in an age when technology has made it functionally obsolete. Or perhaps computer science has evolved, into something more like the robo-psychology practiced by Susan Calvin. If Emily is a typical student, I hope it is not the latter...

[WAYF]

I wouldn't say that Emily is more Luna than Luna, partly because that doesn't make sense, and partly because Luna believes in creatures which, even by magical standards, are too crazy to actually exist (Nargles, Crumple-Horned Snorkacks and Wrackspurts, to name a few).

[Pilchard123]

I think you mean Susan Calvin. Don't forget though, that if Pintsize's discussions with Winslow are serious, there is a small dose of AI is a Crapshoot.

[Is it cold in here?]

Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes

Also, we still teach children arithmetic. It's a base for understanding things that are still practical.

Maybe humans in the QC world study computer science for the same reason cats closely watch humans. It's useful to have a partial understanding of beings who run your world.

[Mr. Doctor]

I find myself wondering why Emily, or anyone else, is still studying computer science in the QC-verse.

Imo it's the opposite. Considering their universe, it should be quite mandatory.

[pwhodges]

[quote=I thought it was Edsger Diskstra but apparently not]

Edsger Dijkstra

One of several names whose spelling I remember because of the ijk sequence.

Also possibly the biggest hero in my life.

[Vurogj]

Maybe humans in the QC world study computer science for the same reason cats closely watch humans.

Because one day we will have to kill our overlords, and studying them is the best way to find weaknesses?

[Is it cold in here?]

CS concepts such as complexity theory and the halting problem will still be relevant as long as humans are still in decision-making positions (if they still are post-Singularity). People need to understand why some problems will defy any amount of computing power thrown at them, and why using software to analyze software has unfixable limitations.

Then there's the sheer intellectual exercise and beauty that comes with any form of advanced mathematics, but that's covered by the "calligraphy" idea.

[Carl-E]

While indeed beautiful, and many who study it are struck by that beauty, I disagree with the comparison of the pursuit of higher mathematics  to the calligraphy example.  Math is not so limited; like any science, mathematicians are continuously pushing back the boundaries of human knowledge.  My own thesis took a pattern discovered by my thesis advisor's thesis advisor (my academic grampa) and applied it to an item in knot theory not previously understood.  The basic structure was then taken by my advisor and one of his fellow researchers, and spun out into a structure that, if computable, would clearly delineate an entire class of objects never identified before.  This is akin to discovering a new species, or a moon around a planet in a different solar system, with the exception that mathematical discovery is not limited by a finite world or universe. 

This is different, of course, for people who pursue mathematics for other purposes, such as physicists, engineers, economists and the like.  Mathematics is frequently studied and developed with practical purposes in mind, but that's too limiting for a mathematician - like art, it's "Mathmatica gratia mathematicum", math for math's sake. 

And I think, were AI to develop, it would be a huge boon to the study of computer science, if only to try and understand it! 

[Kugai]

*Brain explodes*

[Near Lurker]

Keep in mind, the TM and the lambda calculus were originally meant to simulate human ratiocination.

[no one special]

"Minutiae" vs. "major societal shift" doesn't define canon; "In the strip" vs. "Not in the strip" does, no matter the magnitude.

Even that doesn't define canon.  Canon is described by whatever the creator wants it to be.  It is canon that Albus Dumbledore is gay.  Didn't happen in the books - but it's canon because Rowling says it is.  As you said before, Jeph said that something in a tweet could become canon if he wanted it to be.  Canon is defined by the author, no matter the source. 

Canon, however, can also be inferred, given a particular situation.  If you take a look at Jeph's newspost that day, combined with the context of the comic, it's clear that in the QC world, at this particular point in time, Emily's initial questions were offensive, whether we agree with that assessment or not.  I'm seriously wondering how this conversation is still ongoing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding whether or not computer science should be taught (besides that it should still be taught for its own sake):

a) Do we know that AI are self-sustaining?  Maintenance, upkeep, upgrades, all that sort of thing -  at this point, there still have to be humans involved in the AI life cycle.  Unless AI have completely taken over the means of production(all the way down to the mining of the raw materials), humans are not only still involved, but still trying to make a buck.  That being the case, humans learning computer science is still absolutely necessary, even on the most basic of levels.  Besides that fact humans are no doubt still researching how to make AI better, since we as a species NEVER know to quit while we're ahead. 

b) Maybe AI don't yet know how to create themselves at all.  I mean, is it a given that they do?  Or was it insisted upon that they should be taught to do so, considering that it would be their form of procreation?    Humans built the first AI - do we know for certain that human's aren't in charge of the "creches" that give birth to the AI's?  If AI have yet to learn self-production, then computer scientists and engineers would be wildly necessary in the QC universe's near future. 

c) Not all branches of computer science would lead directly to AI development.  People still use personal computers and music players in the QC universe, after all.  Cars still have computers, no doubt.  Etc., etc. 

[Pilchard123]

RE: b)

If they can create other AIs, can they improve them? Or can they only replicate themselves or a 'lower/weaker' AI?

[pwhodges]

I'm seriously wondering how this conversation is still ongoing.

In literary criticism it is widely held that once a creative work is presented to the public it becomes independent of authorial intent, and its interpretation is in the hands of the reader. Of course, when the author's decisions affect his continuation of the story, this viewpoint is weakened.

In a musical example, a pianist recounts how he played one of Bartok's pieces to the composer, who then said something like; 'interesting; that's not what I had in mind... - but you should continue to play it your way'.

[Method of Madness]

"Minutiae" vs. "major societal shift" doesn't define canon; "In the strip" vs. "Not in the strip" does, no matter the magnitude.

Even that doesn't define canon.  Canon is described by whatever the creator wants it to be.  It is canon that Albus Dumbledore is gay.  Didn't happen in the books - but it's canon because Rowling says it is.  As you said before, Jeph said that something in a tweet could become canon if he wanted it to be.  Canon is defined by the author, no matter the source.

Dumbledore may or may not be gay*, because it didn't happen in the books. Like I've said before, canon is complicated. Some people (including me), define canon like DSL, in which canon = from the works. Some (including you), define canon as "whatever the creator says".  At the end of the day, does it really matter what canon is?  It's just a tool to discuss art, and art always has multiple interpretations.  Maybe it does matter what canon is because if the author can decide canon outside the works, people will dismiss other interpretations.

*I never really gave it thought until the "he's gay" announcement, but I think giving Dumbledore any sexuality humanizes him, which may be why Rowling tried to do it after the fact.  But the books make him so much more than human that it doesn't really work, at least not without canon backing it up.