Topic: Running into 2013 (Read 24384 times)

Barmymoo · « **on:** 16 Dec 2012, 13:41 »

OK, well I never managed to finish C25k. But it was such a motivation to have people here running with me, and I'm determined to get back into running. I won't be starting the programme again, but I am setting myself a goal of running twice a week, starting as soon as I get back to Cambridge - so, Friday or Saturday morning. Anyone with me?

Redball · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 13:46 »

Starting about when? I've put on some pounds I'd like to lose before I restart, although it may not matter.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 13:55 »

Well for me it has to be once I'm home, because I don't have any sports clothes here - I'm thinking Friday morning, and if it's pouring with rain then Saturday (or I'll go to the gym). Surely you'll lose the weight faster by running?

Pilchard123 · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 13:56 »

You're running into 2013? Well, you should look where you're going then!

Redball · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 14:01 »

OK. I'm in. I think. I may restart c25k. Report on the thread or the spreadsheet?

Patrick · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 14:33 »

Sports clothes? Come on lady, I ride my bike 5 miles in under 12 minutes in my work clothes. No excuses.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 14:34 »

Patrick, I wear below-the-knee skirts and thigh boots. I have 32HH breasts and do not have a sports bra with me. The situations are not comparable. I cycle like this; I'm not going running in a skirt and normal bra!

Patrick · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 14:37 »

*facepalm* I will never understand fashion, ever

Barmymoo · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 15:00 »

Fashion?! Bwhahahahahaha I dress like one of the Duggars, there's nothing fashionable about it.

Lines · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 17:36 »

Pat, it's not fashion, it's sensibility and comfort. Having breathable, flexible/stretchy clothing is not fashion, it's being practical. Also normal bras, especially when you have a larger chest, are not comfortable for running at all.

Personally, I am not going to be running and probably won't try the C25K thing again for a while. I am awful at running and I hate it when I'm not already in shape. Buuuut one of my friends just got certified to teach Zumba, so I think I'm going to join the gym she goes to/works at and attend her classes as well as doing other work outs, like strength training and some cardio. Michael and I are also trying to put together a home gym in the basement, so I'll try to do stuff here, too. I think I might also break out my yoga mat and work on flexibility and balance again. I wanna lose weight and be healthy! I'm getting married and I wanna look hot and be fit!

Akima · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 18:53 »

Quote from: Patrick on 16 Dec 2012, 14:33

Sports clothes? Come on lady, I ride my bike 5 miles in under 12 minutes in my work clothes. No excuses.

You are a cycling god Patrick, averaging over 40kph without (I assume) specialised training and equipment. That is Tour de France average speed, and the winner of the Olympic men's time-trial averaged only 52kph...

Jace · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 19:16 »

Huh, I didn't even look at the math on that. Yeah when I used to ride 10 miles I usually averaged about 50-65 minutes depending on traffic lights. Then again I usually didn't push myself to ride very hard because it was shitty to show up to work all sweaty and tired from biking 10 miles.

Carl-E · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 21:40 »

Yeah, but Patrick has a considerable weight advantage over most of the rest of the human race...

Barmymoo · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 04:50 »

My brother has an electric bike and could probably get up to speeds like that. The engine cuts out at 15mph but once you've reached that speed with assistance you're fresh and ready to cycle hard without it.

I just found out that I can run on the university athletics track without paying as long as it isn't booked for a team practice. It's not far from where I live - about a twenty minute walk, five minutes by bike. I used to run there with the ice hockey team for land training. It isn't the best track in the world, but it is lit and reasonably safe. And I'd assume it's kept in reasonable condition to stop it from being icy. I think I shall start running there. It's more boring that running around the streets and parks, but requires less thought (is this path safe? muddy? where shall I go next?) and is at least more interesting than the treadmill in the gym.

Does anyone know about treadmill running, by the way? I've heard it's good to put it on 1% incline but what speed is a good one to aim for? I have only really run outside.

Redball · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 05:58 »

I've never run on a rubberized track, which some high schools seem to have. My preference would be to find a path I'm comfortable with, at least in dry weather, but my knees might prefer a rubberized track if that was available. As for treadmills, do whatever's comfortable. Treadmills I'm familiar with have a heart rate monitor. That's often useful for me, but I don't see how it would be helpful for a young person. My comfortable walking speed has been 4 mph. Not sure of my running speed, but at my shuffle jog, it's not a lot faster. In my 50s, a 9-10-minute mile was my standard speed.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 06:40 »

I've discovered the track is closed from the 23rd December to the 8th January, which is a bit annoying - but actually I'm away from the 26th December - New Year's Day then again 5th-8th January so that's only a couple of runs.

Blue Kitty · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 09:28 »

As part of my ongoing effort to get into better shape, something I've been pretty good at in 2012, I'm thinking about starting that C25k

Barmymoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 10:51 »

I did enjoy C25k and I'd recommend getting one of the podcasts which has music and also tells you when to change from walking to running and back. You can do it with your own music and different apps or just a watch, but I found it helpful to know what I was doing when just by hearing the music's beat.

Zingoleb · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 11:05 »

Sometimes when I'm on a treadmill I'll change the speed to match the beat of the song. It's pretty easy to get into it then. I wish there was a way to do that automatically, though.

Carl-E · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 14:52 »

Oooh! That sounds like an invention!

Zingoleb · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 18:27 »

That I'm not skilled enough to make. I wouldn't even know how to begin making something like that.

Zingoleb · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 18:28 »

If I were lost on a primitive planet and had to use my knowledge and skills as an inventor to advance society, I'd be able to make a sandwich.

Akima · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 20:28 »

Quote from: Redball on 17 Dec 2012, 05:58

Treadmills I'm familiar with have a heart rate monitor. That's often useful for me, but I don't see how it would be helpful for a young person.

Keeping a competitive cyclist's heat-rate in various "zones" during training is regarded as important for improving strength and Max VO2, regardless of whether they're out on the road or riding rollers/static trainers indoors. I am guessing that something similar would be true for runners on a treadmill?

Jace · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 21:00 »

Yeah I gotta start running so that I can wear 30+ lbs of armor and keep up with the Usterblichen at Pennsic. This past year they ran a mile in hills in around 8 minutes in full gear just to flank part of the Western Alliance. I ain't gonna be one of the guys who falls over at the halfway point.

(click to show/hide)

Carl-E · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 07:06 »

I used to be one of the waterbearers with the chirurgeons at Pennsic.

Stay hydrated before that 8 minute mile, so we don't have to revive you after the heat stroke, m'kay?

Jace · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 13:01 »

If you aren't racing to get out of your armor and pee you haven't drank enough water.

Akima · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 14:46 »

As a matter of interest, Carl and Jace, is this sort of thing strictly European Mediaeval?

Jace · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 15:19 »

There's a good section of people who do eastern personas as well as European, there's even a bunch of Roman and Greek guys. The combat is trying to recreate the Medieval European combat, but we get a wide range of personas.

Welu · « **Reply #28 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 15:57 »

It'd be good for me to make another go at the C25K. I only did it once or twice because I couldn't find a track but the one around my forum has opened. I can't run on treadmills, it makes my hips hurt like hell and feel like they're gonna fall off. Although I do wish I had a treadmill at home, if I set up a TV or laptop in front of me, I'll brisk walk all day.

Bluesummers · « **Reply #29 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 18:59 »

Ugh...I remember a time, long ago, when I could run a mile in seven minutes...now I'm lucky if I make it in fifteen.

But, I can kayak like the wind (if the wind could kayak), and I can bike too...downhill.

Carl-E · « **Reply #30 on:** 18 Dec 2012, 22:52 »

Quote from: Akima on 18 Dec 2012, 14:46

As a matter of interest, Carl and Jace, is this sort of thing strictly European Mediaeval?

Jace already answered, and my participation's 20 years in the past - but no, not strictly european. The samurai society was popular amongst those who liked to make / wear the elaborate armour. We also had saracens / turks / moors, cartheginians (no elephants, though) and more mongol hordesmen than you could shake a spear at. Any feudal society was welcome!

Barmymoo · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 Dec 2012, 02:36 »

I need to go running now if I'm going to get this thing on the road (I set myself the goal of today or yesterday, and I didn't go yesterday) but I'm unaccountably nervous of going to the porters and asking for the key to the gym. I have no idea why this is. Perhaps it's because I'll be wearing trousers for the first time in months? Anyway I thought I'd tell you guys and that would make it seem so ridiculous that I'd just go.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 Dec 2012, 04:51 »

I went

Ran for half an hour without stopping on the treadmill, with my speed between 6.5 and 7kmph. There's a slight blister starting to rub on my foot again; I had hoped that these trainers would wear in but they don't seem to have done.

Redball · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Dec 2012, 05:52 »

It is ridiculous. And put some moleskin on that pressure point. What would it be called in the U.K.?

Barmymoo · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Dec 2012, 03:17 »

I am not sure - there are such things as blister plasters which might do the same thing though. Or I could wear my walking shoes instead of my trainers, they are probably almost as good in terms of cushioning and certainly less painful otherwise.

Zingoleb · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Dec 2012, 13:36 »

I was hoping someone would pick up on that reference.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #36 on:** 26 Dec 2012, 02:43 »

I went for another treadmill run this morning, because I ate so much yesterday. I didn't manage to keep the rise on 1%, I had it on 0.5% for a bit but it hurt my ankles so I just ran flat, but I did run at 6.7kmph solidly for half an hour, which was better than last time (I kept turning the speed up and down).

Jace · « **Reply #37 on:** 26 Dec 2012, 20:30 »

I had heard from my buddy's parents (who are pyshcal therapists) said that running on an incline on treadmills is super bad for you.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #38 on:** 27 Dec 2012, 10:31 »

Thank you! That is all the permission I need to not do that any more. It certainly feels bad for me.

Redball · « **Reply #39 on:** 27 Dec 2012, 12:31 »

I wonder why that's so. Long distance runners certainly don't avoid slopes, although they don't run on them continuously. Walking on an incline can get the heart rate up, in any case. I learned in mountain hiking, when I was in pretty good shape as a regular jogger, that I'd rather climb than descend.

Jace · « **Reply #40 on:** 27 Dec 2012, 12:37 »

I think it is something about how when you're running on an actual incline the ground isn't moving under you, so your foot can grip the ground properly or something like that.

idontunderstand · « **Reply #41 on:** 27 Dec 2012, 13:26 »

Treadmills suck anyway.

No, I'll modify that. Treadmills suck, compared to actual running.

Akima · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 Dec 2012, 18:15 »

Quote from: Jace on 26 Dec 2012, 20:30

I had heard from my buddy's parents (who are pyshcal therapists) said that running on an incline on treadmills is super bad for you.

I've never really understood the point of running on an inclined treadmill. You never actually climb, after all, so you're not working against gravity.

Quote from: idontunderstand on 27 Dec 2012, 13:26

No, I'll modify that. Treadmills suck, compared to actual running.

In cycling, the road > rollers > turbo trainers > exercise "bikes", IMHO.

Bluesummers · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 00:53 »

Quote from: Akima on 28 Dec 2012, 18:15

I've never really understood the point of running on an inclined treadmill. You never actually climb, after all, so you're not working against gravity.

Exactly. All it does is mis-align your feet. It offers no help with the actual running uphill training. XD

idontunderstand · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 02:38 »

Uphill running absolutely rules.

Redball · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 02:51 »

Quote from: Akima on 28 Dec 2012, 18:15

I've never really understood the point of running on an inclined treadmill. You never actually climb, after all, so you're not working against gravity.

I don't care that much for treadmills, but my heart and lungs would disagree with your observation about an inclined treadmill. If it's set on an incline, every stride lifts me a fraction of an inch, an inch or more. Compare it to a greater extreme: Walking up a descending escalator in a department store.

Carl-E · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 06:51 »

In climbing a descending escalator, keeping position, the lift you get is much less than actual stairs. The force you put out to raise yourself against gravity is (almost) completely negated by the escalator's lowering of your mass as you raise it with your legs. You're not perfectly still, so there's some work done, but it can be as hard on your knees as climbing real stairs is. It's similar with using an inclined treadmill - the damage of misalignment isn't worth the negligible extra work involved.

In running up real hills, there's a downhill to make up for the misalignments of climbing. And it's almost as hard on you as the climbing is...

Redball · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 08:20 »

I'm still puzzled. I'm comparing the work done, not whether it's good for me and my joints. If I'm lifting my 190 (dammit!) pounds six inches against gravity several times a minute, my body and I don't care if the system comprised of Bob and a stair or treadmill is in motion or not, i.e., aboard an escalator or a Dreamliner flying between 0-36k feet. What am I missing? Aren't I expending 95 foot pounds with each lift?

Bluesummers · « **Reply #48 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 09:58 »

Quote from: Redball on 29 Dec 2012, 08:20

What am I missing? Aren't I expending 95 foot pounds with each lift?

Yay, physics! My turn!

Your work done while walking/running up the down escalator (assuming you actually make it to the top) is actually more than just walking up stairs of the same height, but not because of a transfer of kinetic to potential energy. It's because you're moving your limbs at a faster rate to compensate against the escalator's direction.

Similarly, using a Stairmaster expends energy, but not in the same way as actually walking/running up stationary stairs. You're lifting your body against gravity by a few inches, then lowered in between steps as the stairmaster moves. Most energy expended is due to the rotating motion of your limbs, not working against gravity.

Inclined treadmills as compared to walking uphill is also the same theory. It's the movement of your limbs that burns the majority of the calories. The caloric burn rate can't even be compared to running on flat ground, since the only calories burned doing that are due to your body accelerating its mass to a certain speed, and rotating limb movement.

Think of any exercise where your body doesn't change its position in a room, as similar to running in place. Your body is expending energy by moving, but your overall position doesn't change. You're not moving the whole system, just certain parts with the system.

Combine that with the unusual design of an inclined treadmill, fooling your body into putting extra force in order to walk up a hill that isn't really there, is quite detrimental to your body. It puts unneeded strain on your ankles and metatarsals.

TL;DR (Here's the conclusion): putting aside the energy expended by basically "moving in place", you're not burning any calories unless you're changing your vertical position relative to the earth, because it's earth's gravitational forces you're working against. And if you're on that dreamliner at 36,000 feet, and it's assumed to be traveling at a constant velocity, with no acceleration, it's no different that exercising on solid ground.

Enjoy. ^_^

idontunderstand · « **Reply #49 on:** 29 Dec 2012, 10:30 »

So you can basically burn just as many calories, it's just a different movement (which may or may not be unnatural and in the end harmful for your body).

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Author Topic: Running into 2013 (Read 24384 times)

Zingoleb

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